B (6:18)

Hey, thanks for having me Lizzie. I'm super excited.

A (6:21)

I'm super excited. Thanks for throwing your name out there because everyone's gonna understand why in in in a few minutes. What made you think that? What made you think I need to get out. I want to go on the podcast for one.

B (6:34)

I am a huge, like, I'm fangirling huge right now, obsessed with your podcast. When I am over here in the dungeon making candles. I am actually, I have your podcast going constantly. And I honestly get irritated when it ends because I'm just like, now I gotta listen to some other crap. I don't want to listen to other stuff. And, I mean, it's not that other people's podcasts are terrible. Like, of course there's always good things, but, like, yours has the tidbits of helping people. It comes from a definite, genuine location in your heart and soul. And that for sure comes through the podcast, and I absolutely adore that. So you were just, like, amazing to me. And so I just. When, you know, I think it was the end of last year, I heard, you know, hey, I'm looking for possible, you know, 2026 peeps. And I was like, all she's gonna do is say, no, you're cuckoo. And you said, yes. So here I am, cuckoo as can be.

A (7:33)

So you're very good for my ego. I'm so glad. Are there any, like, standout episodes that have just been some favorites? I. I didn't prep you for that at all. So I'm just off the cuff, honestly. Serves us like.

B (7:47)

No, I totally. We're on the same wavelength, chica. So honestly, I love the ones that you. You just recently did. And sorry, I am horrible with names, but same. The girl that does the. Oh, my gosh, they. She has a Southern accent. Yes, I adore them. They are the cutest. And they're like, feed off of each other is awesome. I was just like, okay, now I have to go and watch this on YouTube because they were just so freaking cute. I absolutely loved them. I love the ones where you do kind of that Q A. And you are. You're really digging through. Because, honestly, there's things. As I'm working, I will go, I'll literally, of course I'm talking to you. And I'm surprised, honestly, that you can't hear me because I'm constantly talking out loud going, hello, Lizzy, answer this question. Or, like, because I have all these questions and you always end up answering them. And it just like, I absolutely love it. I mean, just. And then getting back to the roots, you know, I kind of like when you do that premise of, hey, just because you've been on Etsy for a while. Don't worry about that. Maybe just listen anyway kind of thing. I haven't been on the Etsy For a while. But at the same time, I kind of go, okay, you know what? It's always good to get back to the basics. No matter what, if you think you're here, you need to pull yourself down here.

A (9:16)

Yeah.

B (9:16)

Because otherwise you get that ego going, you get too much going, and it's. It's not okay. You have to pull yourself back down to the ground, and you do a really good job of that.

A (9:28)

Very insight. You just got, like, an A plus plus on that. That was, like, way more than I expected. Thank you. Oh, and if anyone's listening, that episode with Becca and Preston was a fan favorite. Let me figure out what number it was. You know what? It's probably faster if I look at my list here. It was episode 216, what We Wish we knew before we started our Etsy shops.

B (9:51)

Yes. That's so helpful.

A (9:53)

Yes. And Becca and Preston are two of my students. In fact, Preston was my first ever student back in 2021. Becca was my. Right. Yeah. He was the first person I ever even talked to. Kind of crazy. We've been. We've been through it together. And then Becca is my star student from 2025 who just blew up. Shannon is not far behind her. So those. Have fun. And then. You're so right. You know what? I should probably do another FAQ episode soon because I feel like we get into more of the weeds, like, in a good way. Like, we get. We, like, we get to go deeper.

B (10:20)

I would do a lot of that. I mean, not like I. I just. I really love the fact that when people. Viewers get to talk to you and then you dive in and answer the questions that we actually want to know. It's so important, I think, to hear, you know, hear the people. Right? You. You want to hear the people, and it's maybe something you haven't really thought about. And it's like, okay, where do I start? Do I need social media? Do I need this? Do I need all these different things? Do I have to do print on demand? Do I have to do, you know, digital downloads? What do I have to do to get going? And it's not necessarily a have to or, you know, whatever it is that you have to tell us. And it's just. You're like, you know, the heavens part, and it's like Lizzie speak. So we love that.

A (11:06)

Okay, so this is your cue, guys. Upcoming FAQ episode in a few months, there will be a link in the show notes where you can submit your questions. So if that just sparked a whole bunch for you, go Submit your questions and in a few months, we'll do an episode and it'll be time. It'll be perfect. Lauren, I want to talk about candles because, girl, you've, like, You've, like, cracked something here in a pretty major way. A lot of people say I hate. I actually, like, don't like this wording, which is why you don't hear me say it. But a lot of people say candles are saturated on Etsy.

B (11:37)

Yes.

A (11:38)

Has that been your experience?

B (11:40)

It has, actually. I would say 1000% candles are saturated. I would say digital saturated. I would say all these things are saturated. Just flick through Etsy and you will find what's saturated.

A (11:52)

However, this is the important.

B (11:55)

It does not mean that you will not make it you. It does not mean that. It means that you have to pivot. To quote Survivor, out wit, outlast and outplay. Right? You have to dive in and you have to realize, okay, what is everyone else doing? I don't want to be the norm. You are not supposed to be the norm. You're supposed to. If you, if you have this goal, this lofty goal you are supposed to build yourself and find that door to unlock and go, okay, everyone has candles. Everyone has candles. And, oh, my gosh, I cannot tell you how many people said, don't even try it. Like, don't even bother. It is so saturated. And honestly, I had my five minute funeral about it. I cried. I was just like, okay. Like, seriously, I was just like, okay, well, I really like. I like candles. What am I gonna do? I don't want to do other things. I don't want to, you know, necessarily. I mean, Etsy wasn't my goal. It was building my candle business was my goal.

A (12:58)

Etsy.

B (12:59)

Etsy was the side effect. So I was like, it's kind of the. The platform to do it on. And so I absolutely. I just dug in and it was just. You have to. You have to really think past, okay, well, so what? It's saturated. Guess what? Mine are going to be amazing. That's that period. End of story.

A (13:16)

So for context for this, when did you open your shop?

B (13:19)

I opened it in May of last year. I did 2025 sale. Yes. And I didn't get my first sale until end of June. Ish. I got one sale and then, yeah, had kind of maybe a couple here and there, but then suddenly was like, okay, I think it was July, August. I. I got like a, like 50 sales. I was like, dancing the jig and my old body was like, no, we're not Dancing. Any jigs. Calm down. Like, settled. Have a seat. Yeah. At 52. I'm sorry. I'm ready for, like, I need the walker. Like, I'm just like, okay, well, you know what?

A (14:00)

We've got it. You just, like, I'm about to throw out all of the questions I gave you because you just opened up. Opened up a whole can of worms.

B (14:07)

I was, oh, there's always. Let's go down those rabbit holes. I love it.

A (14:10)

Let me just put this out there for context to how many sales do you have now? So you opened June, May, June of 2025. It was really slow at first. Then things. All of a sudden, we're in February of 2026. How many sales do you have?

B (14:22)

I think I have. You know what? I can look right here. I'm pretty sure it's like 1100 and change. Let's see, 1195.

A (14:30)

1190. Okay. The point is, something happened. So in this niche that's way too saturated that you shouldn't even try, because Etsy yet. Okay, here's what I want to say. First of all, this is actually. This is like the mind. The mind game that we have to play a little bit on Etsy. Saturation is actually an indicator of opportunity. It means that there is demand. Our job is to figure out what our hook is going to be. How are we going to bring something slightly new and innovative and a fresh twist on something that's in high demand but already has a lot of competition. Right. It's actually amazing because it's a search engine. If tons of people are selling them successfully, that means that you can as well. And what I want to tell my people, who are having an internal panic attack right now because they're like, I'm not creative enough to have a hook. I don't even know what a hook is. How on earth could I possibly innovate? Girls and boys, you are in the right place, because that is my jam.

B (15:21)

Yes, it is. Your jam.

A (15:23)

My jam. Now you. Lauren, we're gonna. We're gonna break into your story here because it's even more. You are creative. You're an example of someone who's creative. I am not creative. Believe it or not, I had success because I leveraged trends I paid attention to. And what I did was, here's the secret. If you're. If anyone's wanting the bottom line right now, here it comes. I figured out how to follow and understand trends, and then I brought them into my space, which was, you know, signs or PNGs or coloring pages or whatever earlier than everyone else. Because I was watching them.

B (15:57)

Right.

A (15:57)

And so all you have to do if you're not creative is just be paying attention to the trends and then be watching for the little windows that will peek out at you of where they haven't been exhausted yet.

B (16:07)

Yes, and that's absolutely right. You're a thousand percent correct as far as they will pop out at you and you have to be willing to pay attention. You have to.

A (16:17)

Okay, so, okay, so you're so funny. Not at all like, you're so funny because you're just like, yeah, it's completely saturated and it didn't matter. No, I, but I want to talk about that. But I want to go back to where you were like, okay, I had like one sale in a month. I bet that was. You were like, oh boy, this isn't working. Maybe those, maybe those people were right to. All of a sudden in like July, August, you got 50 orders. What happened right there? What happened?

B (16:40)

Well, you know when you're a creative or when, I mean, even if you're not, honestly, you can be a numbers per. I am not a numbers person. Holy crap. I am not a numbers person. Like I, I will call, I used to call my ex mother in law and be like, what is 25 off of a hundred dollars? Like I, I want to buy this, but I'm not sure what would that be? And I don't have a calculator. Like hello, that was flip phone. You can't like dig into the calculator. So yeah, I am that bad when it comes to numbers. However, again, outwit out, think outlast. You have to outplay whatever. You have to look at it as, okay, what is going to get found. It's not necessarily the product, it is the SEO. It is. How can I put this into play? And you know, people like, okay, what is lacking in other people's stuff? It's not the candles, it's not the beauty of the candles. It's not the quality of the candles necessarily. It is the SEO. You have to, if it is a search engine, which Etsy is, you have to find the words and, and the verbiage that people are going to be searching for. And when I say that, I mean we're talking your title, your description, your tags, your alt texts, your everything. Everything has to be on par, like period. So whether or not it's saturated, like you said, that means people are searching and they are searching hardcore. So if it is, if it is saturated, that's actually the way I See, it is like, gloves off, baby, let's go. Like, how can we make this happen?

A (18:17)

All the purse leaves people not watching. So did you change your SEO going into July, August?

B (18:23)

I did, I did. I started kind of copying everyone else going, okay, well, they have it like, okay, it's a soy candle and it's pretty and blah, blah, blah and whatever. But honestly, it's not really about the product. It's about the utility of the product. So what are you going to do with the candle? It is for bathroom. Put it in the bathroom. It's a decor. It is a, A gift for a baby shower. It is a gift for a birthday party. It is aromatherapy, relaxation.

A (18:55)

It is.

B (18:56)

What else is it? And we're talking like, don't end there. Like, go. Go on that tangent. Talk about a rabbit hole. Head down, like, plug your nose, jump, and it's go.

A (19:06)

This is what worked for me too, Lauren. As soon as I stopped going like, farmhouse style wood sign and started going like, sign to frame out a wall, collage or whatever. Or what do they call gallery or sign for over your bed or kitchen sign or sign for entryway. That is when I went bonkers on.

B (19:26)

It's true. It's so true.

A (19:28)

People don't do that.

B (19:29)

They don't think about it. And that's okay. But that's why you, you get someone like Lizzy in your life to help you learn those kind of things. As far as, you know, what. What can I do that's different? What can I do? Okay, I'm kind of stuck. Like, okay, we got bathroom candle, cute decor. Like, gift for bridal shower. Like, what else do I have? Well, guess what? Let's go talk to Lizzy because it's going to. You need. You're not going to run out onto the court and play basketball with the best of them. You need a coach, period.

A (20:04)

And it helps. For sure. It shortens the path. For sure.

B (20:07)

It does. And, you know, I'm kind of about that. I mean, of course, being adhd, I'm about that instant gratification. Like, yeah, okay, it typically takes everyone else, you know, two, three years to get going, get some traction, whatever. No, I want to do it. And like, what time is it right now? Like, what time's dinner? Like, let's get going. And I want to do it yesterday. I want to build and I want to grow and I want to. I want to succeed and I want to expand. So you have to change your ways. You have to pivot.

A (20:36)

Why do you think you got the fast Success. Like, what would you attribute it to the fast success?

B (20:40)

Well, you know, typically it takes. Takes 30 days for the Etsy algorithm to pick your stuff up. Right. And, and start reading. You know, the bots have to read, the crawlers have to read through all of your words and all the stuff out there, and, and then you are going to be able to grow. So I think what happened is I just started getting in front of more people and it just really started happening. But also the key is Etsy likes people. And I know that I've heard this on your podcast before. Etsy likes people that are active and we're not talking login. Check out some stuff like how's my. How's my, my shop doing? How's everything? Okay, it's doing amazing. Respond to some reviews, which respond to every single review, by the way. But respond to some reviews. Let's, you know, whatever. I'm talking post, post, post. Like list your stuff all the time.

A (21:35)

Create listings.

B (21:35)

Yes. Minimum of. I would say. Okay. And, and this is. I'm actually, I'm doing this right this second. So of course. It was my very first Christmas, Black Friday. Okay. I was not prepared. Let's just say that I need, I need a moment. Like, let's. Holy crap. It was crazy. It was crazy. And that's amazing. First world problems, right? Like, it's okay.

A (22:01)

But you were prepared in the sense of you got way more orders than you could really deal with.

B (22:05)

Correct, Correct.

A (22:07)

Clarifying that.

B (22:08)

Yes. No, that's good. It was, it was. I did not expect to run out of shipping boxes, to run out of tape, to run out of labels, to run out. I had no idea. And I also, I kind of. People have prepared me, you know, oh, it can kind of be crazy. And, you know, so you got to kind of watch that. But that's. I was just like, I'm not gonna overspend. I don't know until I know. And so I didn't. The last thing I wanted to do was go spend and have piles of boxes and then no sales or piles of tape and then no sales. I would rather run down to Walmart or something and go, okay, I need, I need more tape. I need more boxes. I need more, you know, bubble mailers, whatever, but I had no idea. So I did not post really anything. I mean, I was active. I was filling orders and responding to people and sending messages and they're sending them back and so activity. Yeah, I was active all of December.

A (22:59)

Creating listings.

B (23:01)

Was not creating. Creating listings. And I will tell you, yes, of course, the J months in retail, of E Commerce or anything else is always slow. Always. The J months are dead.

A (23:11)

But what does that mean for people who don't know?

B (23:14)

January, June and July? Yes, they are like, they are really pretty dead. And I was like, man, whatever. No, it, it's true. But I also was like, okay, I'm also not going to post or list, I'm sorry, put listings up and I want to see just what happens. Tanked. Nothing. I got maybe, I think four sales. Maybe in, in like the big first couple weeks of January. I think maybe total. I got, I don't know, probably 10 or 20 maybe. I don't know. I would have to look, but it was not many. So I was like, okay, time to step up. Let's see if this theory is correct. I started listing and listing and listing and more listing and now I am at I think 37 for February and it's only what, the 10th? So it's Etsy likes people who are active and they like people. I mean, what's in it for them? Think like an Etsy CEO. What is in it for them? Are they going to be making money off your products? If they're not, then they're not going to promote you. So get it going. Get, get those listings out there. Yeah, it's, it's very much so listing and listing and listing. And I wanted to try that theory and I'm all about testing. And it's not just testing products. It is also testing, you know, the algorithms. And I'll tell you, go ahead and bypass it. Everyone, anyone who's listening, learn from me. It is tried and true. It is literally you, you will, the more you list, the more they will show you and, and they'll get it going.

A (24:49)

Talk to me about that practically though because like for me and digital products, that's pretty easy. For print on demand, you're using mock ups and stuff. Also not too bad for handmade. That can be really challenging. And so I have a few tips on that. But how do you, what do you shoot for in terms of how many times you want to get new listings up each week? How are you coming up with new listings to create?

B (25:08)

Well, I was doing every day and I was. And that's when I think the real success really started pushing. They're like, oh man, she's serious. Like she, she wants to get some stuff sold. So it was every day. Now you don't have to come up with new products every day. You're doing a B testing, right? So a B Test to. To high heavens. You know, take the one listing, change the SEO around. Right. You have one that is. That is say for baby showers. Well, change it up and focus on brides, focus on decor, Focus on, like, that's just three listings right there. So. And the same product. One product. And so then focus on graduation. Focus on. I mean, you know, it's. What is the utility? But yeah, it is just one of those. You just keep. You keep relisting your products. I don't have. I had probably two to 300 products on there.

A (26:11)

Wow.

B (26:11)

And then I deactivated it. You also have to watch, make sure you're getting the views. If something's not getting the views, the SEO's messed up. Something is wrong. Maybe it's. It's not that it's too saturated, but it's like I'm not standing out enough, you know, whatever it is, I'm not standing out enough. So I need to. I need to redo something. So until I have time to redo, it's deactivate that sucker and let it sit. Sit until I can readjust it. So I just reactivated about eight or 12 listings that I just adjusted the SEO. And you can't touch them for 30 days. You've got to wait for the stats.

A (26:46)

Yeah. To pop through at least.

B (26:48)

Yeah. Yes. It's like you can't. You know, it's just one of those things. For sure.

A (26:53)

I want to say this because people are always surprised you can have several listings for the exact same product. Like, I love what you're saying, Lauren. You're saying actually reposition it.

B (27:04)

Yeah.

A (27:04)

But you could literally keep all of. Even the pic. Like keep everything the same. The SEO, the description and everything just change out what your thumbnail picture is. Because you should have more than one lifestyle type photo of your. Of your candle. Like stage picture of your candle. For example, republish the exact same listing with just a different. A different thumbnail. Like, move a different one to the first place and switch them up. Also, this is crazy, but now ChatGPT's image stuff, you could literally, like, I could take a picture, a stage picture of my sign and I could actually upload another picture of like a decor background that I really like. Careful with your IP stuff on this. But I could say, ChatGPT, take my sign from the first picture and put it in. Stage it in this new picture and you could literally have a new photo of your handmade product. Like, like that. It's crazy what it can do now. So there. Even if you can't go get another, like photo shoot right now with what you can do just in ChatGPT is life changing, game changing. Another thing you could do just to simplify this for someone who's thinking, well, my, for the example, my baby shower candle really can't be positioned for bridal or something like that. So keep it the same and then change out the SEO. And if it's like all SEO for a baby shower, switch it up and do SEO for a newborn or switch it up and do SEO for a new mom. That's different. SEO for the same thing.

B (28:23)

Yes.

A (28:24)

For or like. Or like first Mother's Day. Do you see what I'm saying? How you can just. It's even simpler repositioning than completely changing niches with it. So use for handmade. So you guys don't feel like, oh my gosh, it takes me and you know, for some of you, I've got, I've got some students who they'll list once a month and they still do fine. It just depends on the product. Candles, you kind of want to move volume for like the, you know, they're not like high ticket. Right, right. So I love it. I love. I usually suggest for handmade, try to get two listings of a week. But again, you can reposition what you've already got.

B (28:55)

Yeah.

A (28:55)

Can we? All right, so here's like, this is my, my guilty pleasure here of like, why one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to you, Lauren.

B (29:02)

Oh, my gosh, I can't wait.

A (29:04)

I saw that your background was in like psychology and the scent of and like emotion and scent and using that as a marketing tool. Yeah, you had me at hello. Like, I need to know all about that. Like, first of all, what was the background like? What did you get to learn and how are you using it when they can't smell through the screen kind of thing. Like, tell me.

B (29:23)

Right? Not smelling through the screen. I mean, who. I keep asking, like, who in the heck if you don't have a funny label or something. That is amazing. Who is gonna buy your candle? They can't smell it in advance. So that's, that's the hard part. So of course, that is a sit. And for me, I'm up all night thinking and thinking and then in the shower is my best thinking. I don't know why it always is. I think it's the water. I don't know what happens. But like, I just, like, I sit and I think and I think and then there's much more thinking and then I think Some more. And it's just this craziness of, how can I. You don't have a scratch and sniff screen, so how can I make this happen? What can I do? I mean, this is just a generic label now with psychology. So I used to own, you know, some brokerages, real estate brokerages, for quite a few years. And I absolutely love the psychology behind buying and selling real estate with people. For me, being there at the very. Like, they. I've had people come in and it's. They want to live the American dream. They're from another country. They brought their family over and they're. They. You know, they're doing the whole thing, and they're just like, I don't know if we can afford a house and what should we do? And it's like, all right, let's get you in touch with a lender, have a little chat. You know, they'll tell you how it's going. And then, you know, six months, nine months later, or right then, whatever it is, they will. All of a sudden, they're like, lauren, thank you. We're ready to buy a house, and I'll show them. And I'm always like, you know, you can. I don't want you to buy the first one. Let's, like, take a look. Let's look through things and let's. Let's see. And. But my heart would be so full with the fact of the tears of just. Lauren, you helped us get this. We. We have a place to raise our children. We have, you know, we can re. Have a family now. All these things, it just. Oh, my God, talk about the days of bawling my eyes out and big swollen eyes, just driving home, crying happy tears because it just. It melts my heart. And then as far as selling a house, it just is. Honestly, you read anything that is. Okay. What are some scents that help people buy something? You know, what do they pump through the stores at? And they do. They pump through apple cinnamon scent, how it gets people in the mood to buy. So, you know, anyone out there wants to sell their house, make sure you got some apple cinnamon smoothies out there, too. Like, and for whatever reason, that is the one that gets people to want to buy. I've researched to death about it, and it's the same. And if I. If there's a house and it's like, all right, we've been through three or four agents. Stick some apple cinnamon in there. And I'm telling you, everyone's like, oh, no, it's baked cookies. No, guess what. It's not your mind.

A (32:09)

No.

B (32:10)

Doesn't know why. It is. Literally. I mean, baked cookies, they. They're. I mean, come on, who.

A (32:16)

They're not bad.

B (32:16)

Yeah, that. That's a good backup. But it's the apple cinnamon, for whatever reason, can't smell chemically, and you can't overpower it to be like it, you know, what are you covering up? Right? Like, yeah, for anyone who's selling their house out there. Don't do that. That's bad news. But so for candles, oh, my gosh. How do you market that? Like, how do you compete with that kind of thing? So, honestly, it is. I have candle samples, sample scents that I make that I can ship out to people. I started just doing, you know, here, you. You've got to have some market research. You ship stuff out for free, you know, for. For people that. It's okay. You have to. You have to get out there. Your name has to get known, period. And I honestly, I won't lie. Before I did Etsy, I was like, I'm. I gotta give up. No one. No one. This is. I live in a town or a city of 10,000 people, right? And there's no one here. There's 500 people in the entire. 500,000 people in the entire state of Wyoming. So come on. There's like, how do I get out there? And at the grocery store one day, someone goes, aren't you that candle lady? And I'm like, wait, what? Hold on. I was like, hold on. What? Of course, is always the days that I look like. I mean, I picked my face. It was a nightmare. I am, like, wearing crusty, crusty jeans or sweats. I've been painting, whatever. And of course, that's the day they choose to recognize. I don't know how they noticed. But anyway, it was like, wait, hold on. Maybe there is something to this. And then someone else said the same thing. Hey, I love your candle. Someone gave me your candle as a gift. One of your candles. And I'm like, what? So I was like, all right, well, let's get on the interwebs. Let's see what we can do with that whole sucker. So that's when I looked into Etsy, and again, it's. I got frustrated, you know, May to what, July? It's frustrating. Getting traction is frustrating, but the only way you're gonna fail is if you give up. So don't give up. Literally, like, don't give up.

A (34:17)

It will.

B (34:17)

You could be that one second away from actually getting a bunch of sales. But you know, but as far as getting candles out there, you know, something that you can't smell, it's literally, it's more of a psychology game. So it is the SEO, getting in front of people, having someone take a chance. So every, every order I send out, I, I give them two to three to four scent samples and then I in the box and then what I will do is they in my, some of my reviews even, they're just like, oh my gosh. The scent samples were a perfect touch. I am obsessed with the lumberjack. I can't wait to get a lumberjack candle. Now I have. What you want is repeat buyers, right? So brilliant. That's what I do. I have these little teeny tins and I of course don't have one right here, but you have these little teeny tins and I pour the wax because it smells very different than just sticking a fragrance oil on a cotton ball. I tried that. It didn't work out. All the fragrances blended together. It was, it was not good. So it was, I put, I poured in little teeny wax. Just a little teeny like half ounce tin or 1 ounce tin. I think it's a half ounce actually. And then I just dump some in depending on what they're ordering. Right. If they're ordering a musky scent, I'm not going to put in some fufu scents. Like I'm not going to put in flowers. And I mean, maybe they'll like that. I'll put in maybe one. Typically I think I do like four scent samples in each box. Yeah. And it, they'll just like, I mean, okay, so maybe they'll like Apollo Santo or maybe they'll like a Baltic Sea, it's a little more musky. Or the lumberjack or something that is more musky. And then the scent profiles, you know, make sure that if you're doing candles, get that on there and then ask chat GPT like, hey, here are my scent notes. I've got musk and I've got moss and you know, some ocean, some ozone scent, little bit of jasmine, whatever. Here's my sense, right? Make magic, make someone want to buy my candle. Talk in a way that is so enticing that they can't help but buy it. Like they can't help but put it in their car and buy now. Right?

A (36:33)

So you're creating a feeling. You're using the words to create a feeling.

B (36:36)

That's exactly what you have to do. And again, back to the psychology. You really have to. You can get into someone's mind. Not in a bad way, in a good way, to get that vibe. Like, if you say, okay, does. Can you smell a rose? Like, what does a rose smell like? People can. They can recall. People have sent recall, and they can recall these things. So get in there and really just like, it smells like you're standing next to a beach and you've got the. The fresh dirt and the. You know what I mean? Like in the trees and the wind and it's a spring day and people are like, oh, my gosh, like, I can actually smell that now.

A (37:12)

I need it.

B (37:14)

So that's all you can do when something has a scent, you only. You only have psychology. You can't portray the scent unless you're, like, in an expo or a craft fair. You have to use your words. So anyway, yeah.

A (37:28)

Did you study? Are you. Are you creating scents that are just generally pretty well known and liked, like, kind of profiles, or have you been really innovative with that?

B (37:37)

Yes and yes. So, yeah, I do have both. Like, in fact, I was just responding to someone who. I have a candle called the Perfect Lavender, and she was responding to that. Now I think it's a perfect lavender. It doesn't mean someone else does.

A (37:53)

Sure.

B (37:53)

But I have been trying. I mean, it's a subjective opinion, so I. I've, you know, had other people. Hey, what do you think of this? Anybody? Of course. I'm just like, you hand it out to your friends. Your friends will tell you. Give your friends free stuff. Like, yeah, friends, family. Oh, the neighbor. Like, for Christmas. I was like, we just moved into this house so that I doesn't look. It looks like actually I haven't lived here for a while, but also that I could potentially be a hoarder. I'm not. But like, I, I gave it. I gave my neighbors some candles, and now suddenly they. They see me out at the mailbox and they're like, hey, do you have something kind of floral? I've got a. I've got a, you know, so and so, graduating from getting their masters. Can. Can I get something from you? And I was like, sure, of course. I mean, give them something, because if they like it, great. If they don't, they don't. But if they happen to be walking around with their friends at the store or something, and they're like, oh, my gosh, I've. I love her candles. You know, I got one of those for Christmas something. You know, just a little note on the doorstep. And here you go. Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah, whatever. Like, it's just do that. But. Okay, Lizzie, what was your question?

A (39:01)

No, you actually. You totally already. I don't even. I'm not sure what it was.

B (39:06)

This is. This is blind leading the blind. I don't know how.

A (39:10)

We were talking about. We were talking. We were talking about if you get really innovative with your scent profiles.

B (39:16)

Yes. Okay, Sorry. Thank you. Thank you for pulling me back down. Oh, my God. Squirrels.

A (39:21)

No, I think you said enough on it. Like, it's good. And I do think giving them away gets a really good way to get feedback.

B (39:28)

Right. Well, and the lavender, really quick back to the lavender is basically just. I've worked and worked and we're trying to create something that's not chemically and not fake smelling. It's. It's not an easy task. I don't use essential oils because people don't realize essential oils actually have a combustion point and it can actually be very, very bad. Like they can get toxic at. At overheating. So sometimes people are like, oh my gosh, essential oils are natural. But it doesn't. Doesn't mean it's a good thing. And I hate to see people breathing toxic fumes if they don't have to.

A (40:07)

You guys know I am constantly testing strategies and frameworks on Etsy so I can tell you what's actually working and what's just noise. And one thing I have noticed over the years is this. Most. Most Etsy sellers aren't stuck because they're lazy or they're not doing anything. They're stuck because they're second guessing everything. What to work on, what matters right now, whether they're even on the right path. I hear this all the time and that feels exhausting. So after years of teaching Etsy sellers through courses and workshops, the trendspotting membership coaching and this podcast, I built something that brings everything together in one place. It's called Scaling Society. Scaling Society is my all inclusive Etsy membership for sellers who want clarity and a clear plan without hopping between programs or wondering what to focus on next inside. You get my Etsy seller roadmap so you know exactly what to work on and when with direction on what resources will help you master it. You also get every single one of my courses and my workshops. You get access to trendspotting and the weekly trend reports, my template drop, which means a weekly template that you can resell in your own shop. SEO training, a bunch of done for you resources like prompts, SEO and branding templates. You get a coaching group with real support and that's where the magic Happens. You also get access to two live coaching calls with me every single month. You'll also get automatic access to all of the new trainings and resources I have planned for this year, including special guests. It's designed to meet you right where you're at, whether you're brand new or you're ready to scale and help you build intentionally instead of guessing your way forward. And honestly, the biggest feedback I hear from members isn't just about sales, it's relief. They finally know what to focus on. So if Etsy feels harder than it should, if you're putting in effort but you want more clarity and direction, or if you're ready to treat your shop like a real business and have actual support behind you from people who know what they're doing, you can learn more about scaling society at the link in the show notes. There's monthly and annual options and you can cancel anytime. So just pick what's right for you. I'd love to support you inside. So even your point is even essential oils when they're not used correctly can also be toxic to breathe because of the combustion point. Well, actually I wanted to talk a little bit about your products. I'm a little bit crunchy and so I'm pretty particular about what goes into my any sense. I really don't burn burn candles a lot, but if I do I'm really particular. But I love that you've kind of leaned into that. Is that almost like an industry standard now? Is like non toxic ingredients and people paying attention to that or is it all over the map still?

B (42:44)

I have to say I'm not super sure just because I really, I love seeing that people do non toxic stuff but at the same time I also have a lot of people saying hey, I bought this candle from a big box brand and they will and it's just, I don't know, it's kind of giving me a little bit of a twinge in my eyebrow. Like it's kind of giving me a little bit of a headache and well, yeah, they're hiding formaldehyde now. They're doing different things. It's not good. And for me, I mean like even you get a candle that's colored, is it a natural mica or is it a dye? Like what are you burning? You know what I mean? I mean the wick itself, is it organic, an organic cotton wick or is it like are you burning pesticides off your wick? Like there's so many things so I have to say little quick. Sorry, I know I'm a talker, but

A (43:31)

I'm obsessed with this topic. Please keep going.

B (43:33)

Okay, so, like, I have never, ever been able to have a wax melt or a candle in my house ever, ever. Because I'm so allergic. I am one of those, like, bubble kids. Like, if you think of a giant hamster ball, that would have been my life growing up because I'm completely allergic to my environment. Like, it is so bad. So having a candle, I would have to do a wide berth around any candle shops in the mall or perfume or anything.

A (43:58)

Like, better be in your About Me section on Etsy. Keep going.

B (44:02)

I think I need to expand on it, but it's like, it is so bad. Like, I. Oh, my God. And it would knock me down with a migraine for days. I used to have a migraine. It was like, a couple times a month, five times a month. Then it became literally every single day, every single day, a migraine. I'm like, I am debilitated. I have. I can't get out of this dark room. This is a nightmare. How do I survive what is happening? And I just. It's funny because when I retired from real estate, I just was like, okay, time for bucket list. Bucket list was like, I've always wanted to pour candles. Like, let's see, I don't know if I can make a candle that I can even smell. Like, I can't smell anyone's candle. So honestly, this all started with a bucket list. For my own sake and for very selfish reasons of. I just. I love burning candles and that aromatherapy, but I can't have it. I can't be around it. It. I go into someone's house. Try showing houses when they have Glade plugins or whatever plugins, and. And all the stuff. And you're like, holy crap. And I'd have to fake, hey, I'm gonna go take a phone call. Like, it's just. It's so bad. It was so bad. And it would knock me down, and I'd have to be trying to pretend I don't have a migraine and just be like, I want to put my thumb in my eyebrow. Like, oh, God, that hurts so bad. But no. So it took me about a year, year and a half to come up with a formulation that actually was the right formulation. Okay. Would it be bees? Soy wax? Would it be, you know, coconut wax, apricot wax? There's all these waxes these days. Would it be this. Would it be this fragrance oil? Would it be that kind of fragrance oil? So is a. A blend of clean fragrance oils, organic cotton wicks, a good wax that doesn't have any pesticides. All the stuff, like, it's. It's. It's insane. The trial and error time of. Okay, that didn't work. I'm down for a few days, babe, so go ahead and. Yeah, I mean, it was. It was bad, Lizzy. So bad. I'm just so grateful. And so far, knock on wood, I have a hundred percent success. I. I, like, I'll do, like, the local craft fairs and stuff, and I'll have stuff out, and they're like, oh, I can't be around candles. And I'm like, okay, here, please just try this candle and I'll just give it to them. Here, you've suffered enough. Please take this candle. If it. If it bothers you, please, here's my card. Text me, flip me off if you see me at the store. I don't care. Something, let me know if this works. And people are always like, they come back the next year. Oh, my gosh. I. You're the. You're the only candle I can burn. Literally the only candle I need. And literally they're like, I need eight of them, 10 of them. And people are also. Tell me, oh, my gosh, I've had your candle almost, I think a year. I got it last Christmas, and now it's almost this. This Christmas, and I haven't even burned it yet. And just the lid being off, I can smell it around my house, and it doesn't bother me. And everyone comes in going, what is that amazing scent? And I'm like, oh, hair flip. I love this. Like, it just. I love that because I. I have suffered so long, so, so long. And I saw one recently, I think, at HomeGoods, and I was like, oh, my God, this smells good. I have to try to figure out how to recreate it. So I was burning it, trying to get like, okay, what is that scent in there? Oh, no. Three days I was down on my butt. Migraines. I was drinking like, rock stars and Cokes. And, like, how do I get rid of this headache? It was terrible. Nothing, nothing. H. It was three full days. I was down on my buns. So into the trash it went. It's sad. So much money, so much. And people don't realize they'll be home with a headache or a migraine, and they'll be like, I don't know what's causing it. It's like. Like, you're burning candles, right? Like, don't do that, don't do that.

A (47:44)

Do you really lean into it on your listings about them being non toxic and the ingredients in it? Like, is that a big play that

B (47:49)

you make Again, I'm kind of, since I'm just kind of starting out, I won't lie, I've leaned in a little bit, but not a ton. So the other thing that I've kind of realized is that there's other candle makers out there. There's other people that are like I want to learn how to make candles, they have bucket lists or they just want to do it right. And so what I've found is that what do you have around that you use that you can sell as a supply, right? Like what can you sell as a supply? So I also sell the wax. Like I sell my wax that I use because there's other people that want a good wax that is tried and true. So I have wax and wick stickers and, and wicks that I sell and all these other things. I'm helping sell supplies to people. If I can, you know, build a better community, better, you know, stuff for people, it's so worth it in my opinion.

A (48:43)

Industry, in a way is what.

B (48:44)

Yeah, absolutely. So I do advertise like on my wax that it is, you know, it's got a long burn time because it's a more pure product. It's not got a bunch of additives, it doesn't have a bunch of crap in it. So that stuff. Yes, I definitely do. I. For 20, 26 I have my Q1 through Q4 goals and that is definitely Q1 is change some change some verbiage, lean in, in the about lean in, you know, to some of that stuff and, and reach out. I tr. I've kind of tried in the past and dabbled in it and it seemed to not make a difference. But that was before I realized that 30 days, you know, learn from you, everyone else, like It's. It takes 30 days to kind of pick up. So I kind of, I think I gave it like a couple weeks and was like, oh, it doesn't matter then. So who cares?

A (49:29)

But I will say I don't think you have to go crazy. Here's. And this is for anyone else listening, if you were being any. Anytime you're doing something different in terms of like higher quality products, non toxic ingredients, specific verbiage for your industry about like organic wicks, eco conscious organic, anything like that. You guys, you. There are people, there's a massive number of people, I'm one of them who really only buy that stuff for the most Part you mean like we are. That is a buying signal for me. I don't want you to go change any listing that's already selling. With the exception of. You could add a little. Here's. Here are three things that you could do. Number one, create one graphic card that goes into every single listing that just. You've probably already done this, but that highlights that part. Tell them all about a healthier choice and all about what's in it and why that goes into every listing. You can change that on an existing listing. You're not going to put it as the first photo. It's just going in the gallery. The same exact information should be a very digestible blurb in your listing description. You can add that to them as well. In fact, there's a bulk of bulk update thing you can use in your. On your Etsy dashboard, in your listings where you can add that to. You can like select the listings you want to add it to. You don't have to go into them individually. And then in your case you need to add to your about section. Like this candle shop was birthed out of a life of getting headaches. Every single time I was around candles. I spent decades and decades not being able to enjoy scents in my home or even walking by a candle shop. And I have painstakingly honed my recipe so that I can enjoy them and so can other people who are sensitive. Like obviously polish that. But that kind of thing, it doesn't need to be a novel. It just needs to be like, like you've got my attention when you say that. That needs to be the very first thing you say. Now also when you think about going forward, I wouldn't change the first picture on any listings that are selling, but new ones that you create, you could do little call outs if you're not already doing this on the first image. Make sure it's really aesthetic but basically says like non toxic ingredients or if there's a stronger buzzword than that because that, that sort of like now it's very all encapsulating.

B (51:34)

It's like it's overused. Everyone's using it and it doesn't almost. It's almost lost its value.

A (51:40)

So what is the thing that. Let's talk through it. What is the thing that, that you're doing that people like that signals even higher value.

B (51:48)

Oh my gosh.

A (51:48)

So for me, like I love to see something's organic, but when I see that it's like, like Whole Foods, I am not from the, not the brand but that it's a whole food. It's not processed. Yeah. That is like a signal to me. Do you know what I mean? Like I want something that's no processing. I'm talking about a total different, total different niche. But what is the thing in your. And you may have to think about it. Maybe it's the type of wax you're using that if someone sees it knows oh yeah, that's the best thing you can use right. Or maybe it is the wick or maybe I don't know but a little call out that says the cleanest ingredients and then like, like a little bullet points of what they are but it's like small but it's on that first slide. I would a B test that because I think yeah especially if the SEO is going to line up and it's

B (52:28)

true because you have to, you have to, you have to. If you're going to talk the talk, you got to be able to walk the walk. So yeah you've got to, you've got to have that stuff on there. The local, our local newspaper did a whole article on me and I actually just uploaded the article as my about.

A (52:43)

Nice.

B (52:43)

I think I have to go back through. I did it like that should totally

A (52:47)

go in your pictures and you're about pictures for sure.

B (52:50)

I guess it just like it's the whole article in like for my about because it tells kind of like the whole story how it started, how it pivoted, what happened, blah blah blah and it's fairly long but of course it's you know the, the Cody Enterprise is cited, you know etc. Everyone gets their credit and but it's. I really need to I think lean into it more. I think it's kind of here and hidden in this but I, I really need to put in more like a slide like you said like my slides in my wax by themselves as a supply. It definitely has that but there is zero reason why I can't take that slide that tells all of it. Candle burns long time, no additives, non toxic, pesticide free. All the stuff put that slide into every one of my. Yes. And like you said even like a little overlay. Try an overlay on the thumbnail photo to, to kind of hook and be like hey this is why we're different. You know and because it's true this is why we're different. This is what makes us stand out and you know, I mean.

A (53:53)

Okay. Also P.S. this is you know how we were talking earlier guys about like you need to add regular listings. This is, this could be it literally all you do is you go to your best selling listing, you hit copy. The only thing you change is you switch out that first thumbnail to also have the call out. Now, over the next year, you can test that one against the original bestseller and see does it make any difference. So, like, that's saving you tons of time as well on creating, because you're

B (54:18)

using that shell, right? You're using that shell. So then you're creating. You're just. That's. That's all I do. When I create a listing, I don't ever create a new listing. I copy an existing doing well listing and then, like, add different stuff or I'll a B test, you know, like you said, of course, always change over the. You don't want a whole page of the exact same thumbnail. I mean, that's. That's like the definition of insanity. So don't do that. But like, the, you know, having a new thumbnail, putting an overlay, doing something like that, but the shell and then finding out, yeah, which one does better. And I actually found out that one of them did better. They like this aesthetic of a thumbnail more than this. And it was interesting. So then I, you know, changed it up. But, yeah, for sure.

A (55:03)

So, Lauren, if we're thinking about the person who's about to get started, the newbie, total beginner, if you could give them, like, one piece of advice, like one overarching, here's the one thing I want you to know. What would that be?

B (55:14)

I mean, do not give up. It is a struggle, but things don't. Nothing's gonna get handed to you in life. Anything worth anything is not gonna get handed to you. I'm sorry, you're gonna have to work for it. And if you don't want to put in the work, you need a different. A different hobby or a different job or a different something, because you're gonna have to work and you're gonna have to work your buns off. I mean, it doesn't have to be like, you're not gonna have to kill yourself. Don't do that. Like, as far as, like, working, working, working to the bone. Yes. And. And I have no shame. I am part of that whole hustle culture. No shame here. Because my husband's like, can you just ever take a day off? I'm like, not really. Because, like, I mean, what else are we gonna do? I might as well. We can watch a scary movie or watch something, and then I can just have my laptop and be kind of like doing SEO, whatever. And then he'll quiz me, oh, what did they just say? And I'm like, oh, it's this and this. And he's like, and then, you know, whatever. But I'm constantly more better new. How can I make something more better new? What can I do to do more of something that's doing great? How can I make it better if it's not? And what new product can I put up? So it's constantly more better new. I wanna, I wanna get going and, but as far as, like, to the newbie, guess what? If your niche is like, you know, whatever it is, say you, you've got keychains, laser engraved keychains. It seems like everyone's doing laser engraved. I don't know. I don't have a clue. Everyone. I could say that about candles. Everyone's doing candles. So that's okay. That just tells you there's a market for it. So lean into it and then sit and think, think, think. How can I make this better? And honestly, you're not trying to be better than anyone else. I want, I want success for absolutely everyone. Absolutely everyone. That is my huge goal in life. How can I help? What can I do to help people? But all you have to do is if you're, if you are, like, what? Okay, we'll just go with candles. I sat and I scrolled through Etsy. I typed in candle, right? Like, hello. Like, that is. Talk about. That's more like a whale hole. Like, that's not a rabbit hole. That is a. Like full on. Not that whales make holes, but like. And then. And you scroll and you scroll and you scroll.

A (57:30)

Yes.

B (57:30)

Lizzie's laugh. For those who can't see. Lizzie's laughing her buns off at me. Because it is what it is.

A (57:39)

For a while.

B (57:40)

It's a whale hole. It's a whale hole. Come on. So, but everyone gets that, right? Like, so you scroll, right? You scroll. Composure, Lizzie, pull it in. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. So you scroll and you scroll and you scroll. You're looking at all the candles, right? All the candles. All the candles. Sudden, suddenly something captures your eye. What was that? What captured your eye? Now go and would it like. Okay, you want to be that thing that captures someone's eye? They see all these candles. They're foo foo. They're next to other candles. They have some lights wrapped around them. Great. Yay. Okay, they're this. Wait, what was that like? You have to stand out. How are you going to stand out? How are you Going to make waves. Be the different one. Be the change. Be the change. You want to see a different candle. Be a different like. And I use. I have to. I mean, I'm not sponsored in any way. I wish I was. Holy smokes. But Photo Room AI app, literally, like you said, I haven't chat GPT. I don't have time for that. No one's got got time for that. I sit and I wait and I wait, and I'm like, no, Yesterday, I have 75 of these suckers to make. I don't want to sit for one. Like, I batch. So it's like, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna do today is all day photos. Just. That's that. And we're talking. I don't know if you can see over here. There's like three little objects sitting there literally just on a little white backdrop piece of paper. And I just take a photo. It could be on my desk and have junk in the background, but photo room will take it all out and then replace. Change the lighting and do all the things that I need to do. And that app is game changer for me. And I. I can't say it enough. I've told other Etsy shops about it, and they're like, oh, my God, you changed my life. Thank you so much.

A (59:32)

Wow. I'm excited to check it out.

B (59:34)

Unbelievable. And you just. You get in there and it's not. I mean, of course they'll put some fake crap in there, but, like, it took a while for me to kind of figure out how to talk to the AI. Like, and I ended up nailing it, and I made an ebook for it. So it's. It's in my shop. Like, if someone. Because it was like, it is hard. It is hard to do. You know, how do you talk to Gigi? Right? Like, how do you talk to Gigi? Okay. Like,

A (60:02)

everyone knows what I call my AI.

B (60:04)

Like, everyone knows Gigi. I'm sorry. Even my husband. I was like. I was like, oh, yeah, listen to this part. She's gonna talk about Gigi. And he's like, Gigi. And I'm like, makes sense. And he's like, oh, I love that Lizzie calls it Gigi. So even my husband, who could give a crap about any of this stuff, he knows that Lizzie Smiley calls Gigi Gigi. So, yeah, she's, like, iconic. So just FYI.

A (60:28)

But yeah.

B (60:29)

No, seriously. So anyway, yeah, so I get in there and I'm like, hey, mine's Sage. I don't know why Sage is Just saying.

A (60:36)

I love Sage. Yeah.

B (60:37)

So I was like, all right, Sage, create like blah, blah, blah. And it's. It's just like she. It's impossible to try to get her to think proper. Oh, sorry. Good call, Lauren. Good call. Out. Good. This Create eye. I'm like, I. I have. I'm flying birds at the screen when I'm like, sage, calm down. Getting it. Yeah. I am so done with it. She's like, I can tell you're aggravated.

A (61:02)

No, no.

B (61:03)

Crap, Sage. Are you serious? I actually have to watch walk away from you, Sage. I'm like, oh, Sage is rude. She's a diva. I'm over it. So I just walk.

A (61:14)

Everyone send me your stories of yelling at your AI. I just lose my mind.

B (61:19)

She's probably listening right now.

A (61:21)

Obviously. I'm so polite and I'm gonna be the favorite if there's an AI takeover. They're gonna.

B (61:25)

Oh, I tell her thank you and you're the best. But when she makes me mad, I have words and I've heard that they'll say the words back to you, but it. She hasn't yet. Knock on wood. I expect it. That day is going to be an

A (61:38)

email when that happens. Lauren, Holy cow. This was so powerhouse. Could you please tell us where we can find you and connect?

B (61:46)

Honestly, I have put. Of course Heart Mountain Candle Company is out there on all the socials, but I've noticed that people really like the human aspect. So all of my business stuff really goes on my personal, personal page. I know that's probably very taboo, but it's just Lauren Aldis and it's a L, D, O, U S. And I'm on Facebook. I'm on Facebook and Snapchat and Tick Tock and let's see, LinkedIn and weed puller. No, I have no idea if there's a weed puller, but like, something, you know, I'm on all of them. Yes, Literally everywhere. And I try to. I try to post more multiple times

A (62:27)

a day because it's a big real estate energy. It makes sense. It all tracks. It all makes sense.

B (62:31)

It does track, for sure.

A (62:32)

Thank you so very much. I think this is an extremely valuable conversation. Like, you brought out tips and content and experience and ideas and thought patterns that are going to change some people's lives. Literally, quite literally.

B (62:49)

I hope so. I. I mean, I, you know, that could only be my hope. If I can help anyone, please. Dm, I respond to everything.

A (62:55)

So.

B (62:56)

Dm, send me a text. You'll find my. You could Google my name. I'm still a realtor. Like, I'm not a realtor, but it looks like I am all over Google. My phone number is on there. I don't care. Send me a text and hey, I listened to Lizzie Smiley and I don't care. I am. I love helping people in any way, shape or form. Obviously, don't take advantage.

A (63:14)

Lauren, Lauren, sorry, you need to apologize, but just can you please be extremely careful telling people on the Internet to call you?

B (63:24)

Yeah, go ahead, call me. Because if you have some bad words for me or you're creepy, we'll have words, too. Seriously, after being a realtor, I got some thick skin, yo.

A (63:33)

I know you've got some stories. Just be super careful because we go out to literally thousands and thousands.

B (63:38)

That's okay. That's okay.

A (63:39)

And I love you being.

B (63:40)

Try having your phone number on Zillow. Seriously, like, come on. Like, it's. It's a very real, very real. Yeah, it's a whole thing.

A (63:50)

Thank you so much, my dear. This has been an absolute pleasure for me and for everyone listening. That was heavy hitting. This is one to listen to a couple of times. But thank you so much for hanging out with us. I love you guys so much. I can barely stand it. And until next week, go make something awesome. Bye, y'. All. And that's a wrap on this episode of how to sell your stuff on Etsy. Thanks so much for hanging out with me today. If you're looking for more resources, head on over to howtosellyourstuff.com where you'll find podcast show notes, all the links from today's episode, the blog, courses, coaching, and more. If this episode was helpful to you, awesome. The greatest compliment I can receive from you is a rate, review and subscribe on this podcast. Not only will it allow us to connect again on a future episode, it lets me know I'm providing you with value and helps other people find this content more easily. From the bottom of my heart, thank you for your support. Have a great day and see you next time.