How Nature & Other Physical Environments Impact Your Focus, Cognition & Health

Podcast Summary: Huberman Lab – "How Nature & Other Physical Environments Impact Your Focus, Cognition & Health | Dr. Marc Berman"

Release Date: July 14, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of the Huberman Lab, host Andrew Huberman, a neuroscientist and professor at Stanford School of Medicine, engages in a profound discussion with Dr. Mark Berman, a Professor of Psychology at the University of Chicago. Dr. Berman directs the Environmental Neuroscience Laboratory, focusing on how physical environments, especially natural settings, influence brain function, mental health, and cognitive performance.

The Concept of Attentional Fatigue

[03:04] Andrew Huberman:
Andrew initiates the conversation by addressing a universal challenge: the depletion of attention in the modern world. He likens the struggle to maintain focus amidst numerous distractions to "climbing over barbed wire," highlighting the pervasive pull on our attentional resources.

[03:04] Dr. Mark Berman:
Dr. Berman introduces the concept of directed attention fatigue, explaining that modern environments demand constant directed attention, leading to its depletion. He differentiates between two types of attention:

Directed Attention: Intentional focus on specific tasks, susceptible to fatigue.
Involuntary Attention: Automatically captured by environmental stimuli, less prone to depletion.

He elaborates, “When our attention is depleted, we don't have as much impulse control. We might behave more aggressively...our attention is just being fatigued” ([03:04]).

Nature as a Restorative Environment

[06:59] Andrew Huberman:
Andrew probes into the neurological basis of attentional fatigue, contemplating whether it's rooted in neurotransmitter systems like norepinephrine and dopamine or linked to sensory fatigue.

[08:55] Dr. Mark Berman:
While acknowledging the complexity of the brain's metabolic needs, Dr. Berman emphasizes the psychological experience of fatigue, pointing to the frontal cortex's role in directed attention. He suggests that environments capturing involuntary attention, particularly those rich in natural stimuli, can restore directed attention resources.

[10:02] Andrew Huberman:
Andrew shares insights from the audiobook "Daily Rituals," noting that many creatives use stimulants like caffeine and tools to restrict their visual field, fostering a focused state. He connects this to the idea that involuntary attention, when not overstimulated, supports sustained directed attention.

Laboratory Studies Supporting Nature's Benefits

[16:34] Dr. Mark Berman:
Highlighting seminal research, Dr. Berman discusses a 2008 study where participants performed cognitive tasks before and after walks in nature versus urban environments. The findings were striking:

Nature Walks: Improved working memory and directed attention by ~20%.
Urban Walks: No significant cognitive enhancement.

Notably, these benefits persisted regardless of the participants' enjoyment of the nature walk, demonstrating that "there's something deep about processing auditory, visual, maybe even tactile stimulation of nature that somehow is good for our brains and restores our ability to direct attention" ([16:34] Dr. Berman).

Mechanisms Behind Nature's Restorative Effects

[22:15] Andrew Huberman:
Andrew speculates on the structural aspects of nature that facilitate attention restoration, such as fractal patterns and irregularities, contrasting them with the rigid, right-angled structures of urban environments.

[27:12] Dr. Mark Berman:
Dr. Berman delves into the concept of soft fascination, where natural elements like waterfalls gently capture involuntary attention without overwhelming it. This contrasts with urban stimuli like billboards, which harshly seize all attentional resources, leaving none for reflection or mind-wandering.

He explains, “Soft fascination... captures our involuntary attention in a softly fascinating way... allows for mind wandering” ([27:12] Dr. Berman).

Further exploring, Dr. Berman discusses the compressibility of natural scenes. Using a JPEG compression analogy, he notes that nature's repetitive patterns are more easily processed by the brain, reducing cognitive load compared to the complex, high-contrast elements of urban scenes ([34:35] Dr. Berman).

Effects on Mental Health and Cognition

[42:29] Andrew Huberman:
Andrew inquires about the cognitive enhancements from nature walks, questioning the laboratory and real-world data supporting improved focus and working memory.

[51:59] Dr. Mark Berman:
Highlighting additional studies, Dr. Berman shares that even short walks (as little as 20 minutes) in nature can yield cognitive benefits comparable to stimulants like Ritalin for individuals with ADHD. He emphasizes that "it doesn't have to be super long... just 10 minutes of nature can be beneficial" ([51:59] Dr. Berman).

Furthermore, Dr. Berman presents research linking increased tree canopy in neighborhoods to significant health benefits, including:

1% increase in perceived health per additional tree ([40:14] Dr. Berman).
1% reduction in stroke, diabetes, and heart disease per tree ([40:14] Dr. Berman).

Implications for Daily Life and Recommendations

[46:45] Dr. Mark Berman:
Dr. Berman offers practical advice for combating directed attention fatigue:

Take Nature Breaks: Whenever concentration wanes, step into nature or engage with nature simulations (e.g., nature sounds, images).
Designate Areas for Deep Work: Create environments free from distractions to protect and enhance directed attention.
Incorporate Nature into Built Environments: Advocate for biophilic design in schools, workplaces, and urban planning to integrate natural elements.

He recommends allocating at least 20 minutes daily for nature engagement to rejuvenate cognitive resources ([70:34] Dr. Berman).

Impact of Urban Environments and Social Media

[66:30] Andrew Huberman:
The discussion shifts to the detrimental effects of social media on attention. Andrew compares social media to a chaotic, non-fractal environment that continuously drains directed attention without offering restorative benefits.

[67:04] Dr. Mark Berman:
Dr. Berman concurs, stating that social media platforms are designed to "harshly capture" attention, leading to its depletion rather than restoration. He warns that such passive activities, despite their low cognitive demand, can be draining and contribute to what he terms "mental obesity".

Structural Changes to Society and Built Environments

[113:57] Dr. Mark Berman:
Discussing broader societal implications, Dr. Berman advocates for a nature revolution, emphasizing that nature interactions are necessities for human cognitive and physical health, not mere amenities. He envisions:

Incorporation of Nature in Schools: Allocating more recess time in natural settings.
Redesigning Work Schedules: Integrating nature breaks to enhance productivity.
Enhancing Urban Green Spaces: Increasing tree canopy and biophilic design in cities to foster public health.

Conclusion

The episode culminates with both hosts reflecting on the profound impact of environmental factors on cognitive health. Dr. Berman underscores the necessity of integrating restorative nature practices into daily life to combat attentional fatigue and enhance overall well-being. Andrew Huberman reiterates the importance of intentional environmental design and mindful engagement with nature to sustain directed attention and enrich mental health.

Key Takeaways:

Directed attention is a finite resource essential for goal-directed behavior, susceptible to fatigue in demanding environments.
Nature offers a restorative environment that softly fascinates, capturing involuntary attention without exhausting directed attention.
Laboratory and real-world studies consistently show that exposure to natural environments enhances cognitive performance, reduces stress, and improves physical health metrics.
Biophilic design and increased urban green spaces are crucial for fostering cognitive and physical well-being in modern societies.
Social media and urban chaos act as attentional drains, contributing to cognitive fatigue and reduced mental health.

Notable Quotes:

Dr. Mark Berman [03:04]:
“When our attention is depleted, we don't have as much impulse control. We might behave more aggressively... our attention is just being fatigued.”
Dr. Mark Berman [16:34]:
“There’s something deep about processing auditory, visual, maybe even tactile stimulation of nature that somehow is good for our brains and restores our ability to direct attention.”
Dr. Mark Berman [27:12]:
“Soft fascination... captures our involuntary attention in a softly fascinating way... allows for mind wandering.”
Dr. Mark Berman [51:59]:
“It doesn't have to be super long... just 10 minutes of nature can be beneficial.”
Dr. Mark Berman [70:34]:
“If you can actually get out and interact with nature... that’s how you’re going to get the most bang for your buck.”
Dr. Mark Berman [113:46]:
“Nature interactions are necessities for human cognitive and physical health, not mere amenities.”

This episode underscores the critical role of natural environments in maintaining and enhancing cognitive function and overall health. By integrating nature into daily routines and built environments, individuals can effectively manage attentional resources, mitigate stress, and foster a healthier, more focused mind.