David Letterman and Jim Downey

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends

Episode: David Letterman and Jim Downey

Release Date: May 29, 2026
Host: Robert Smigel
Guests: David Letterman (“Dave from Indianapolis”), Jim Downey (SNL/Late Night writer)
Featured Caller: Barack from Turkey

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Overview

This richly comedic and nostalgic episode sees Robert Smigel joined by legendary comic writers David Letterman and Jim Downey. Blending personal reminiscence, writing shop talk, and crowd-sourced comedy punch-ups, the episode revolves around a unique challenge: helping a Turkish debate teacher named Barack craft a funny email to renowned comedy writer Steve O’Donnell. The episode is a masterclass in joke structure, late-night television lore, and the art of comic collaboration.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Late-Night TV Memories & Behind-the-Scenes Stories

(02:53-25:04)

• Origins of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog
  • Smigel shares how Letterman's dog show remotes inspired the Triumph puppet. Reluctance to copy Letterman led to innovations on Conan’s show.
    • “We were obsessed with not doing what you... did... We can't do anything that Dave's ever done because we'll be compared.” — Smigel (06:36)
• On Writing and Producing Iconic Bits
  • Jim Downey is praised for high standards and gentle feedback as a head writer.
    • “He would make you feel like you could do better, as opposed to…the Al Franken approach.” — Letterman (13:04)
• Classic Letterman Bits Revisited
  • Memorable stories include the “Velcro Suit” and fake Broadway musical segments.
  • Recollections about reluctance to fully embrace physical and absurd bits in youth:
    • “I have some low burning regret that I didn’t say yes to more of this sort of thing.” — Letterman (15:36)
• Unique Writer Auditions
  • Anecdote about hunting down future Simpsons legend John Swartzwelder from a single joke on a postcard.

2. Comedy Writer Shop Talk — Influences and Legacies

(25:55-36:37)

• Getting Burnt Out as Head Writer
  • Both Smigel and Downey reflect on the creative grind of nightly and weekly shows, the need for continual idea generation, and managing strong personalities.
  • “Being a head writer is a burnout kind of job.” — Letterman (25:31)
• Legacy and Historical Perspective
  • Reflection on how late night material felt disposable at the time but achieved lasting impact via internet culture and nostalgia.
    • “The material you’re doing here is like a paper cup. You just tear it up and throw it away.” — Letterman (64:11)

3. Helping Barack — The Comedy Email Punch-Up

(36:45-73:36; core bit at 41:47–73:36)

• Premise:
  • Barack, a Turkish debate coach and fan, seeks advice on crafting a standout, funny email to Steve O’Donnell.
• Strategy Session:
  • Playful debate on whether this “crime” is about tricking O’Donnell into replying.
• Joke Starter Pack:
  • Flattery and Personalization:
    • Compliment O’Donnell’s smile and erudition.
      • “I would open with maybe a compliment on his smile... claim you saw him on some talk show…struck by his gleaming teeth…” — Jim Downey (46:28)
  • Inject Self-Awareness:
    • Joke about being the national debate champion and challenge O’Donnell to a debate.
      • “As a national debate champion in my country of Turkey, I think I’m a good judge of these things. And your smile just lights up a room.” — Downey (47:21)
  • Running Gag Opportunity:
    • Inside joke about O’Donnell being teased as “Crackle” from Snap, Crackle, Pop — but warned not to bring it up seriously.
      • “…his entire life…people accusing him of looking like Crackle. …it’s not a compliment. …do NOT tell him he looks like Crackle.” — Downey (50:01)
  • Absurdist Tragedy Setups:
    • Suggests writing examples where O’Donnell’s comedy helped through “tragic” family scenarios (e.g., “My grandmother, only alive because of individually wrapped corn flakes”).
      • “The only thing that would make her happy was when you played the tape of individually wrapped corn flakes…” — Dave (67:27)
  • Anthropomorphized Animals:
    • Play with the Turkish/animal theme — e.g., “love from Turkey (the country) — but my pet turkey hates your work.”
      • “I also have a pet turkey, but he hates your work.” — Barack (72:21)

4. Memorable Moments & Quotable Lines

• On the Relentless Need for Comedy Innovation:
  • “Show eats through a lot of ideas.” — Jim Downey (25:34)
• Self-Deprecation and the Comedy Grind:
  • “You could literally be adored by everyone and then come home and still get completely ignored by your own cats.” — Smigel (79:45)
• On Comedy Community:
  • “Jim’s here to help you…wrote with Steve O’Donnell…worked closely with him on Late Night with David Letterman.” — Dave (42:29)
• Barack’s Turkish Weekend Update-Style Jokes:
  • “When pressed for further comment, the executive neighed and galloped away.” — Barack (74:14)
  • “If only Van Gogh had been born now…he could be an unknown baby.” — Barack (74:38)
  • “Municipality announced green spaces…among the plans are even more violent big green buildings.” — Barack (75:11)

5. Meta moments & Comic Banter

• Continual callbacks to “How about that?” as a catchphrase.
• Repeatedly mock the format and structure of podcasts, Patreon, and bonus content.
  • “They have podcasts, and then they have something called a Patreon account... for $5 a month, you'll get to see bonus material. Stuff that wasn't as good for my podcast.” — Smigel (30:13)
• Self-deprecation about the show itself:
  • “There’s quite a lot there and then also not much there…That’s the beauty of the show.” — Letterman & Smigel (76:25–76:32)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “He would make you feel like you could do better as opposed to… the Al Franken approach.”
  — Dave (13:04)
• “I have some low burning regret I didn’t say yes to more of this nonsense… it’s delightful.”
  — Letterman (15:36)
• “Being a head writer is a burnout kind of job.”
  — Letterman (25:31)
• “Jim’s not feeling well. None of us are.”
  — Dave (41:41)
• “You couldn’t have done this a half an hour ago?”
  — Smigel, on Barack’s jokes (75:00)
• “Those are very good. Good for you.”
  — Jim Downey, encouraging Barack’s writing (75:33)
• “How about that? There’s quite a lot there and then also not much there. That’s the beauty of the show.”
  — Smigel & Letterman (76:24–76:31)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Letterman/Smigel Reflection on the Velcro Suit Bit: 16:13–17:33
• John Swartzwelder Writer Audition Story: 26:40–29:40
• Entering the Core “Help Barack” Segment: 36:45
• Explaining Steve O’Donnell’s “Crackle” Baggage: 49:33–52:01
• Punching Up the Email with “Tragic” Family Scenarios: 66:16–69:00
• Barack’s ‘Weekend Update’-style Joke Tryouts: 73:47–75:34
• Meta-joking about the show’s content/futility: 76:25–76:58

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Flow & Tone

The episode is richly conversational, freewheeling, and self-aware. Long stretches of affectionate lampooning, asides about the absurdities of professional comedy and late-night TV, and shop talk give listeners an inside look at how legendary writers riff, reminisce, and collaborate. The humor is dry, gently self-deprecating, and rooted in genuine camaraderie and mutual respect.

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For Listeners: What You’ll Learn & Enjoy

• Illuminating stories from the golden era of Late Night and SNL.
• Insider advice for punch-up and comedic writing — especially on introducing “funny self-deprecation,” personal hooks, and absurd turns in correspondence.
• A warm, meta-comedy vibe that fans of Letterman, Smigel, and Downey will savor.

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In Summary

This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in comedy writing. The genuine warmth between Smigel, Letterman, and Downey is a treat, and their step-by-step punch-up of Barack’s letter offers both laughs and lessons in comedic craftsmanship. The show’s running gags, historical anecdotes, and loving send-up of its own purpose make for a memorable hour-plus of improv, history, and writing-room gold.

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Transcript

[Robert Smigel]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

What's up, y'?

[Jim Downey]

All?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

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[Kal Penn]

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[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

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[Robert Smigel]

Hey, stay in your lane.

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[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Hey Robert, Huge fan. I know this Might be weird as a request, but I'm trying to send an email to a colleague of yours, Steve o', Donnell, former head writer of the Steve o'.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Donnell.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

And I'm trying to make it as funny as possible.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I've brought in a couple of people who have worked with Steve o'. Donnell. So can we cut to the first. My first guest who's gonna help you. Do you see him? That's Jim Downey.

[Jim Downey]

Hi, Barack.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Now, I brought one other person who worked on this Late Night with David Letterman show. Can we pan and. And show him there? That's.

[Robert Smigel]

Hi, Barack.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

This is Dave from Indianapolis.

[Robert Smigel]

Hi. Can you tell the three of us here a little bit about yourself? For example, do you have a family, Barack?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

I have a brother, a mom.

[Jim Downey]

Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

Are you currently appearing on Broadway? Humor me.

[Jim Downey]

I need some too jokes to make me seem funny.

[Robert Smigel]

Humor me.

[Jim Downey]

My wit is lacking to the nth degree.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Hi, everybody, this is Humor Me. I want to thank you for listening or especially for watching given my face. If you haven't seen the show before, this is a place where we put our guests to work a little bit. Kind of the Byron Allen formula can't go wrong there.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Where we help somebody who needs help in making a speech or making a job presentation, something like that. And I call on very funny people, help me help them. So, yes, Byron Allen, same idea. I sit back, they do all the work.

[Robert Smigel]

Byron Allen, worth several billion dollars. I just like to always mention that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And very generous in the way that he unleashes comedians.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. You shouldn't. As a friend of mine said, you should see the ones who are leashed because get ready and Hang on, that's

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

a totally different show. Well, let me introduce my guest to my extreme left is Jim Downey, well known for one battle after another. You've seen him in the Chair Company and There Will Be Blood. And he also dabbles in writing, I understand.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And this gentleman right here, I'm Dave. Dave from Indianapolis.

[Robert Smigel]

Indianapolis, Indiana. Correct.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

There you go.

[Jim Downey]

Speedway.

[Robert Smigel]

No, not Speedway, but Indianapolis.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

A suburb to the west of Indianapolis.

[Jim Downey]

I'm sorry.

[Robert Smigel]

That's all right. No need to apologize.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And Dave is very funny. He's been on television for many years.

[Robert Smigel]

I had a show.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yes, you had a show.

[Robert Smigel]

Jim and I worked together.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Listen, this is. Okay, enough with the hilarity. I'm gonna explain that I'm gonna break a few rules on this episode. Usually I try not to do what every podcast does, which is a lot of excessive complimenting. Back and forth.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes, I admire that. But I will say thank you for having me as part of this. I'm here for the supreme reason that I love being on tv. And I wish you and I had worked together. I've only known of you since my are behind me. And I wish you and I had a relationship. He and I have a relationship.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, I want to talk about it.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. Anyway, thank you very much and thank you.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Please. I. Like I said, I going to break my no compliments rule.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, let's break it. Don't. Don't break it. No, let's don't do it.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It's going to be really hard.

[Robert Smigel]

But let me ask you about the puppet. Where from? Where have you talked about where that came from?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, again, I'm going to do this. I'm going to answer this as best I can without complimenting.

[Robert Smigel]

In the world of puppets, that seems.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, the fact that the puppet of which he's speaking. Triumph. The unsold comic book would not exist if it were not for your show. And I'll explain why very quickly, because this I don't want to Mark Marin, you.

[Jim Downey]

This had better be me.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I want to make it about me. But since you asked. When we started the Late Night with Conan o' Brien show took your place at NBC, I was the head writer and I was obsessed with not doing what you. I loved Conan. I thought he was incredibly funny and I was excited to work for him. But I constantly reminded Conan and the crew can't do anything that Dave's ever done because we'll be compared. We were already terrified of being compared. We wanted to change the show name. We wanted to call it Night Night with Conan o'. Brien. Anything to avoid comparison. So one of the many things, probably the dumbest thing I did was I told Conan no remote settings. Yeah. Which turned out to be the thing that he does best.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I told no, Dave did it. And you know, other people have tried to copy Dave. Pat Sajak. Did you see him try? If Sajak didn't do it, what do you think?

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Who do you think.

[Robert Smigel]

I'm so sorry I brought up the puppet. Let's just keep going.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay. I'm just telling you, this is what.

[Robert Smigel]

Thank you, Triumph. I'm just saying I wish you and I had buddied up earlier in our lives.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay. But now.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay, let's keep going.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I gotta finish the story.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, Lord, no.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It's. You had on Westminster dogs in 1990.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, yeah, yeah. The winners of the dog show.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You were in the Ed Sullivan Theater now. And you were playing with the environment. Found comedy. I was like, we can't do any found comedy. So the dogs would run up and down the aisles, and it was hilarious. And I thought, let's do Westminster. But let's get puppets. Let's get puppets to perform and have various talents. This puppet can sing the theme from the Bodyguard. This Pupp can light its own farts. Oh, the best was a puppet who was a Jack Nicholson impersonator. So I actually had the puppet put his paw over his forehead like every hacky. Jack Nicholson.

[Jim Downey]

I'm Jack Nicholson.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

They all talked with the Russian accent. Anyway, eventually we did triumph.

[Jim Downey]

Wow.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Like, four years later, I was like,

[Robert Smigel]

now, let me just. I have a curiosity about the talents that puppets do in the room. Was that a difficult sell or was that. Yes, here we go.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He was the producer. I was like, that's what we're doing.

[Jim Downey]

But, you know, you kind of skip quickly past. And of course, they all had Russian accents. That's the thing that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That's because when I was 10 years old, dogs had Russian accents in my head because I had Russian grandparents, because my mom was. I didn't never know that generation. Immigrant. Yes. And my. And they would talk to me like, a little bit like a little kid, like, hello, how are you? You know, and dogs have innocent faces. And the worst thing I have ever said about this is the dog's faces remind me of, like, the face of an immigrant who's just gotten off the boat in Ellis island. And it's like, wow, look at all of these.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, we'll assume that's flattering.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay, I'm going to stop talking about tribe. I want to ask you something. Did you hear that Conan talked about an appearance the first time he was on your show? Maybe it was the second. He was on Jimmy Kimmel recently, and he told this story about. We were brainstorming. The show had just started, and he said, what if I go on Dave's show and I'm really animated and I'm in the middle of really entertaining anecdote, and then all of a sudden, I just freeze and literally hold his face and not break. And here's the picture that on the Kimmel show.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, so this would have been on my show.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

This would have been on your show.

[Robert Smigel]

This was idea.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, no, it was his idea.

[Robert Smigel]

It was his idea.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It was his idea. And as he tells it on the Kimmel show, he's like, robert was insistent that I do it, but I was

[Robert Smigel]

like, oh, my God, how far into the sit down. Might this. This have been like a minute, two minutes immediately?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Probably two minutes.

[Robert Smigel]

Two minutes in. And how long would he hold that?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He would never have broken.

[Robert Smigel]

So I wonder. The awkwardness is all on you.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yes. And he was.

[Jim Downey]

The beauty of it.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, years later, you did something that blew his mind. When Joaquin Phoenix was on.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, my.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

When Joaquin Phoenix was on and he was in. His alter ego for that documentary he was doing with the beer. The bizarre. Yes. And Dave was hilarious all the way through the interview. But at the very end, you said, well, I'm sorry you couldn't be here today.

[Jim Downey]

I remember that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And I remember Conan just. I could never. I could never think of it. Just the low key.

[Robert Smigel]

Matter of fact, this is fascinating to me because recently we learned that an astronaut on the space station had to come home for medical reasons. And the medical reason heretofore unheard of in the world of medicine could not talk. Just stopped talking. Not neurological, not muscular. For some reason, the impairment was. He's fine now.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He wasn't frozen, though.

[Robert Smigel]

No, he was fine.

[Jim Downey]

He was doing Conan, Conan, Conan.

[Robert Smigel]

To get home, apparently.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, man.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, that's great. I'm sorry now. That didn't happen.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

See, I think that's a part of me thought, like, at some point Dave would have figured out how to handle this.

[Robert Smigel]

I'm going to do it now.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Please do it to Conan the next time you're on.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Oh, no.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, God, I'm not capable of handling this.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Thank you.

[Robert Smigel]

Cute bit.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Cute bit. I would love for you to do it to Conan.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, again, I love being here with Jim and I. Well, no, and it's fun. I think you and I have a great commonality heretofore unexplored or experienced, and I'm sorry about that. Oh, by the way, do we have time for another story? I'm not hanging. But I think for my experience with Jim, there are two things that to me, kind of are his signature. One was the bank that makes change. Whatever that thing.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Change bank, change bank.

[Robert Smigel]

Just unbelievable all the time. The silliness, the stupidity, the dedication, the devotion to that idea. But the simplicity of it is just genius. All day, every day. And then the other thing, which I

[Jim Downey]

can't really remember, maybe there was only the one.

[Robert Smigel]

No, there was. There was one. It just has gone away now. It'll come back. Don't worry about it.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Jim. There was something in Jim's documentary that. That bothered me a little bit, which was at some point someone said something like, I wouldn't hire Jim to manage my, you know, my lawn or something. Like, he, like, trying to make a compliment that Jim's a brilliant writer, which he is. But I thought he was amazing writer and beautiful manager of people's personalities. I was like 25 when I got there. And what he was amazing at doing as a head writer was handling bad ideas and making you feel like you're not a complete loser. Like, he would make you feel like you could do better as opposed to, like, forgive me, but the Al Franken approach.

[Robert Smigel]

What is the Al Franken approach?

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Unambiguous.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, I'll just delight in being funny regardless of the collateral damage. Let's put it that way.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay. Yeah. You gotta know.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah. Whereas Jim, you know, took the role seriously. He had incredibly high standards. He would call things. That's kind of a first thought idea.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

That would probably be the harshest I would get. The other was the. Do you remember when we had. When John Candy was on and there was a wasp nest in the set? And I remembered the thing with you was you would very often I would try to talk you into doing things that you would laugh. You would laugh, laugh and go, like, I'm not going to do that. And then while throwing a pencil on the ceiling. Yes.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Avoiding eye contact.

[Jim Downey]

But this one was because Candy was great at, like, just playing the.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Dave, wait a minute, wait a minute.

[Robert Smigel]

Can we kill the sound?

[Jim Downey]

I'm sure that's a wasp. And then he did the thing where like, Dave, I'm not gonna move. Look on the back of my neck. And he's there. And you're like, oh, my God, yes. But you kind of warmed up to the bit. And then finally you were saying, john, we have people who can take care of this. You don't need to. He goes, no, no, Dave, I want to do this. And he went and got like a fogger. And we had a stepladder. And then I have this memory of he kept coming back after the other guests and he would come back in with like a beekeeper's helmet with the netting and everything.

[Robert Smigel]

I have some low burning regret that I didn't say yes to more of this sort of thing. Because now when I envision myself participating in this, just complete nonsense, it's delightful.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

But you were so young and probably vulnerable because Conan. I had the same thing where sometimes I would try to convince Conan of something and be shocked that he didn't want to do it, and I would have to be reminded that he's the one out there.

[Robert Smigel]

Right. But that trepidation I think sometimes is enhanced artificially.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jim Downey]

But I remember after I'd left the show and I was watching you do the Velcro suit, that was a moment where like, holy shit. Yeah, that was.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You were like, oh, now Dave's really into this.

[Jim Downey]

Well, now, I mean, like, I would not. I would not have done that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Was that a tribute to Steve Allen on something?

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, Steve Allen would do things like that getting out of his car. But that particular thing was always a failure. And the people, the harness people, who are the harness people that always. It's a very well known family that does harnesses for Broadway until Malindsi Brothers or something like that.

[Kal Penn]

Something like that.

[Robert Smigel]

But anyway, they're very well known. And the idea was I'm in the suit with the harness, and when I leap, they harness me up. The idea was horizontal, not vertical.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Right.

[Robert Smigel]

But because of the meager momentum that I had generated approaching the wall, I would always slam. And then once I'm on the thing, they can't pull me up. And this would irritate them to the point of they just hated the bit. And then we're gonna do it at Radio City musical on some anniversary thing. And now it's gonna be like, oh, my God, he's going 50ft and the same goddamn thing happens. And I get maybe 18 inches off the ground and I'm just stuck to the wall.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, no.

[Robert Smigel]

So the whole thing never came to fruition.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That was anyway, so memorable. It was the perfect.

[Jim Downey]

The way you just. It just. But it was instant and solid bond.

[Robert Smigel]

No, it didn't happen. Didn't happen.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

But the first time I actually met you was your last show on NBC. Conan was on the ninth floor where we had our offices. And I said, conan, we should go down. And I said, you should go down and pay your respects. It's Dave's last show. And he was like, oh, yeah, no, that's a good idea. I said, I'll go with you. And it wasn't. I really did think he should pay his respects. And so we're watching from outside 6A, and it's an incredible show. You wrap it up with a beautiful speech, gracious speech toward NBC, walks through the doors, sees Conan and immediately invite you. Invite us into your dressing room.

[Jim Downey]

Room.

[Robert Smigel]

This doesn't sound like me. Yeah, I was going to say, well,

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

you were always very generous to Conan. And you saw Conan and you said, come on in. And then he introduced me, and I immediately made you cringe by being incredibly nerdy about the first time I became a Huge fan of yours, which is. And then I was like, you were hosting the Tonight show in June of 19 and Mackenzie Phillips was your guest, and she was completely baffled by what you were saying. And you and Ed McMahon were just laughing on either side of her. And I was like, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. And what I wanted to ask you was who, because you were a great stand up already, but you weren't like super famous as a stand up. And so I was wondering, was it Johnny who was like, I think he should get a shot at Hosting?

[Robert Smigel]

It's Peter LaSalle, who was a longtime producer with Freddie DeCordovay and Johnny. They had worked together, the three of them, for a long time. And I think Peter actually worked in radio, but I don't know if that included Johnny, but he had been in broadcasting forever and had worked with Johnny forever. And it was Peter who was kind to me. And it was through that relationship that I got to be on the Tonight Show. But boy, I mean, you talk about Mackenzie Phillips, you talk about Ed McMahon. I almost don't remember that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

For those in the audience who didn't serve in Vietnam, Mackenzie Phillips was a sitcom star in the 70s and the daughter of. For those who served in Korea, the mom is. And the pop is John Phillips.

[Robert Smigel]

But it's truly amazing because, well, I'm only speaking for myself. And other people have their own version of life, but it's every day when you get out of bed, in your head, it's all about you getting out of bed and you going through your day and then you going to bed. And then after you stop doing that, you realize, oh, my God, there's a whole giant world around that cares nothing for my schedule. And it's just a wisp of a memory, I guess. So. No, it's true. Right, Jim?

[Jim Downey]

Yes, exactly.

[Robert Smigel]

Thank you.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay, I'm going to take your word

[Robert Smigel]

and it'll happen to you in triumph one day. Sadly,

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I still have my kids at my home, and I think the second they leave, which is September, that that's going to start happening.

[Robert Smigel]

Going off to school, Is that what

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

they're going to do?

[Robert Smigel]

And you've not been through that. Is that tough for you? Well, this is a typical old man conversation.

[Jim Downey]

I became a grandfather. Oh, my God. Yeah. In fact, my granddaughter was born. We did the Radio City concert. I'm thinking.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes, I remember that. I was not there. No.

[Jim Downey]

And then the 50th anniversary show, which I know I saw you at.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes.

[Jim Downey]

On Sunday. And my granddaughter was born. On the Saturday between the two shows.

[Robert Smigel]

How about that?

[Jim Downey]

Yeah. So she is like.

[Robert Smigel]

But you had an eye patch, right?

[Jim Downey]

I had an eye patch. I had. I had fallen on the dangerously overloaded with wiring stage at Radio City. And that's a good tumble, isn't it? Rehearsing a thing with. With Bill Murray. So I decided the doctor said, like, okay, this is going to look pretty bad before it starts to look better. And so it. Overnight it turned, like, black purple. And so I just went out and got an eye patch. And then people. Anyone who came up to me and you know, come on, what the.

[Robert Smigel]

Looking bad before it looks better is also the theme of today's show.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

But seriously, I would just lift up the eye patch.

[Robert Smigel]

Do you remember what our conversation was that night? I had gone to that gathering for the specific purpose of seeing Lorne Michaels. Just to thank him and get the hell out of there. I looked for him for 90 minutes and could never find him. No, never found him.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And I was people to surround him.

[Robert Smigel]

Absolutely, I guess. And I'm now jumpy to get home and I see you and your girlfriend and you got the eye patch. And I went up and I said, look, Jim, I'd love to stay here and talk to you. I just don't have time for your stories tonight. I gotta.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, I want to ask you about one other. As you talk about how you wish you could have committed more to crazy bits like the wasp.

[Jim Downey]

Well, no, no, Dave. Dave committed.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, no, I know.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

I'm just.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I wish he had done that.

[Robert Smigel]

I think the. That was about 90% of stuff that was submitted. I should have had a higher strike rate in that category.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

But I want to point out something that you committed to years later that people should know about more. They would stage. They would have fake Broadway musicals and he would introduce them. This was around the late 90s, I think.

[Jim Downey]

Okay.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

CBS and the Late Show. And he would introduce the cast of a new Broadway musical, and they would. And it would be completely fake, but so believable. Like, Paul would write the music.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah, I didn't see all that. Yeah, I knew what you're talking about.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Put it together.

[Robert Smigel]

Because from time to time we would have an actual segment from a Broadway musical on the show. Yeah. And these were phony.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Never, ever acknowledged that it was fake. And there was no giveaway joke. Everything was just a little bit cornier

[Jim Downey]

than it should have been.

[Robert Smigel]

You might question it, but probably you didn't. Because I don't think anybody knew the difference or cared about the difference.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And then the other thing that I heard, that was hilarious. This is. I think Rodney Rothman told this story that Jay Leno's talent booker called the theater producer or something.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes. One of the phony musicals wanted to know, wait a minute, what happened? How did this slip through?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, how did you not tell us about this? Why did Dave get it first?

[Robert Smigel]

Poor, poor Jay.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

All right, it's too late, is it? No, it's not too late.

[Robert Smigel]

By the way, my memory of that

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

is people he did that, not nerdy comedy writers.

[Robert Smigel]

All right, there you go. Take that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That's the point. That's what you're saying, that the stuff that you like, the WASP you had,

[Jim Downey]

that's how you had extremely high standards. And you always thought the audience, you know, you could have done better or whatever.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, it was the only way of knowing if the audience was completely silent like they are now watching this.

[Jim Downey]

Sometimes there's, there's, there's people just going, oh, God, My, my God, this is great. And it sounds on the Internet like

[Robert Smigel]

they're not liking it, having this conversation. I almost wish I could have another shot at this. When I was in my early 30s, it seems like, oh, my God, now I think I. But then again, you realize TV is of it sort of withering in this regard.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, yeah, it's tragic. I'm so grateful to have had your

[Robert Smigel]

show to inspire you, but then you got to work with the genius of Conan, for God's sake.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, it's the greatest job I ever had. Even though I got burned out. Like Jim. We both left after a year, so I wonder why that is.

[Robert Smigel]

He didn't get burned out. He got, he got to go back with.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, well, I, you know, I left for.

[Robert Smigel]

How did you get burned out? You didn't get burned. Well, you weren't long enough to get.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

I believe.

[Robert Smigel]

I know burned out.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Being a head writer is a burnout kind of job.

[Jim Downey]

Well, also, you know, that, that I sort of felt that, you know, that the, the show eats through a lot of ideas because, you know, it's very. Idea heavy. And were you doing, you know, five shows a week or do we do four or five? I try to remember.

[Robert Smigel]

We only did four because they had Friday night videos.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That's right.

[Robert Smigel]

In our time slot on Friday night for video.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

We had to do five when we.

[Jim Downey]

I'm never 100 sure that we, we did four or five, but, but anyway, what's the we? Sort of. I got to a point where, like, boy, I've, I've thought. I've. I Can't think. It's harder. Harder for me to think up new ideas.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, it's also like when you're a head writer, you're managing everybody else.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You don't have time to think of it.

[Robert Smigel]

Also, if things go well, you're more inclined to say yes to stuff in a pitch. After that show, if things don't go well, you're less inclined to say yes.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

This reminds me of one fantastic story. There was a man who wanted to write on the show, and you had known him because he. From Chicago, and he went on to work on the.

[Jim Downey]

Oh, John Sportswelder.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. And one day, after having pitched him to me and pitched him to me, you came with a postcard, and you said, here, listen to this. I think this guy should be on the show. Tell him what the joke was.

[Jim Downey]

Well, the joke was, it's one of my favorite jokes ever. It was, let's say, Robert Smigel. That wasn't the name, but Robert Smigel's much publicized effort to break every record in the Guinness Book of Records got off to a rocky start this week when his recording of White Christmas sold only five copies. And first of all, the confident length of the thing is just. That's my kind of writing. And he just sent that postcard on a postcard. Wow. And I remembered, you know, and this is the part we've talked about where for some reason now I've since heard from John indirectly that he goes, well, I did think I included an address, but definitely with the postcard there was no address. And so this is 1983, and I was going to the New York Public Library reference room where they have telephone directories from all across the country. I'm starting with, like, Akron, Ohio, and working my way through to Zanesville and looking for Schwartzwelders, luckily. And I found, like, a cluster of them in suburban, like, Seattle, which is. It turns out he's from, like, Renton, Washington, or someplace near Seattle. And so. And I got his mother, and she said, oh, that's my son. He's working for an advertising agency in Chicago.

[Robert Smigel]

How long did this take you to run him down?

[Jim Downey]

It probably a couple of weekends or something. So I was dedicated and we got him out and he made. It was just a very awkward.

[Robert Smigel]

He frightened me. And I'm guessing it was because the show had not gone well. So now I'm interviewing this guy or chatting with this guy. It wasn't really an interview. And there's something about him I found menacing, which is probably not right.

[Jim Downey]

No, he's a wonderful guy, but he's like six, seven or something.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Physically.

[Robert Smigel]

He was smoking through the whole

[Kal Penn]

room

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

with him at snl.

[Robert Smigel]

Is that right?

[Jim Downey]

Yes.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He was my first roommate.

[Jim Downey]

You're not really supposed to smoke in any job interview. Dave particularly had, like, you know, certain boundaries. And you look over at me, and you've got the baseball glove and you're throwing the ball, and you look over at me and just go.

[Robert Smigel]

But see, on the other side of this, what would it have been? Because the man went on to be legendary as a comedy writer.

[Jim Downey]

Maybe he's great. Maybe they say the greatest Simpsons writers.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, my God. Well, you're welcome, America.

[Jim Downey]

He did look like a drifter.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You know, I would go to his house and he would play old baseball games that he had videotaped.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, my.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He was a huge baseball fan.

[Jim Downey]

He was a great. Also a great baseball player. He was a highly touted pitcher.

[Robert Smigel]

Do you know where he had gone to school?

[Jim Downey]

Some high school near Seattle. That's all I can tell you. Wow. How about that interesting character about it?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Shouldn't we. Yeah, we'll get this.

[Robert Smigel]

Should we start the podcast?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, give me the start.

[Robert Smigel]

Mind your own business, Frank. Yeah, Frank, get your own podcast.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I just want to ask him one more question about this.

[Jim Downey]

It's going really well.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

The bit with. I just didn't know when we were gonna start this thing.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay. Why don't you get an Uber 2 parter?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It'll happen. Yeah, why not? We'll put it on our Patreon. Do you believe people do that?

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, I see it. I have no idea what it is.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

They have podcasts, and then they have something called a Patreon account, and it's like, for $5 a month, you'll get to see bonus material.

[Robert Smigel]

Stuff that wasn't as good for my podcast.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Speaking of bonus material, I just wanted to ask you. So you also did a fake boy band. It was called. I forget, Fresh Stuff.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes. It was the name of a kitty litter. I think that's where it turned out to be.

[Jim Downey]

The name of a kitty litter.

[Robert Smigel]

I think that's where people started saying, maybe not.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, but they had them flash a website at the very end of the second appearance because they wanted to see how many people were in on the joke. And then people wrote into this website, and some of them totally bought it. And some of the funniest one that I saw, I looked this up and it was like, when I saw you guys on Letterman, I thought it was a joke when I was Laughing because I thought it was funny. And then I realized it was not a joke. How dare you. I just feel sorry for you people.

[Kal Penn]

Wow.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

Weren't some of the.

[Jim Downey]

Were any of the people that you had play in as, you know, cast members of the fake musical later famous in their own right?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Actually somebody in the boy band. Matthew Morrison.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

He became a big.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Both a Broadway star and he was the star of Glee.

[Robert Smigel]

Really?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

How about that? Well, see, you never read about the nice things Frank Sinatra does, do you? You just don't.

[Jim Downey]

Do you remember we had.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You got to get the Peabody Awards on this.

[Jim Downey]

We had. Alec Baldwin played.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, yes. The first time he was on the show.

[Jim Downey]

Oh, in the 80s, in 83, probably.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

82.

[Robert Smigel]

He was on a soap opera.

[Jim Downey]

He was on the Doctors. And he knew he'd gone to school with Sandy Gillis.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

Ah. And. And I was saying we need someone like a handsome kind of leading man type who's going. I can't remember what the bit was, but it was. It was something that he shows. It was totally committed, kind of, Dave, bitterness is eating you up. Something like that. It was the guy, and he was

[Robert Smigel]

in the back of the audience. He stood up and interrupted the perspective.

[Jim Downey]

Something like that. Yeah. And Sandy said, I went to school with a guy who'd be perfect, that he's really handsome. He just got signed to a soap opera. And then years. And I remembered how funny he was. And years later, when I was producing and they were looking for a host, snl, they said, this guy, Alec Baldwin, and I go, wait a minute, I've worked with him.

[Robert Smigel]

Wow.

[Jim Downey]

And then like eight years early, and he became one of the, you know,

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

one of the all time best hosts.

[Robert Smigel]

How about that?

[Jim Downey]

Yeah. Wow.

[Robert Smigel]

Very good.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Call the show. How about that?

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

Robert would have been better.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Robert Smigels. How about that? Hold on. Before I. I can't believe I forgot this. As we're taping this, Dave just had his birthday and I want to get. And before we go on, this is a couple of things. Humor me.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Ham.

[Robert Smigel]

Thank you very much.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And also.

[Robert Smigel]

It's a beauty. What is that, a five pounder?

[Jim Downey]

That's a humdinger, that one.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, humdinger. Puts out nice pork products.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Yep.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And this is.

[Robert Smigel]

Thank you very much, Robert. Thank you very much.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

This is also for your birthday. These are. This is stationary from Lester Holt from the desk of official NBC stationery.

[Robert Smigel]

This is fantastic. I mean, both of these. You may be silly about this, but I'll eat this. Not on the way home, but I will eat this. This. This is a keepsake, my friend. Thank you very much.

[Jim Downey]

And you can open. You can use that to open a corporate account in his name.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yes, and borrow against it.

[Robert Smigel]

God bless you. Thank you very much. Ham and stationery.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, it's the least we could do.

[Robert Smigel]

It's like Christmas morning.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

All right,

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3

[Kal Penn]

month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required intro rate, first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

and fees, extra fee, full terms at Mintmobile.

[Kal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Kal Penn, host of Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Wil Wheaton, who played Gordie Lachance in stand by me 40 years ago and now narrates Stephen King's the Body, the novella that inspired it all. We talk about what it's like to return to a story that shaped his life, channeling his memories of River Phoenix in the recording booth. And why the friendships you have at 12 might be the most important ones you'll ever have.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I know Gordie Lachance.

[Robert Smigel]

I am Gordy Lachance.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Like, I mean, even when I was

[Kal Penn]

a little kid, I was Gordy Lachance when I didn't know it. Listen to earsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts, bro.

[Jim Downey]

From the show last night to this

[Robert Smigel]

drive, why is it never chill? Cause this is our life backstage on the road.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It's loud, messy, real.

[Robert Smigel]

And that's the best part. Whole crew, no plan, just moving. Good thing Nissan builds for that kind of chaos.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Not just test tracks, real life scenes, late nights, road trips, all of it.

[Robert Smigel]

That's why it holds up. Nissan was ranked number one in initial quality among mainstream brands by J.D.

[Kal Penn]

power.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, you can tell. 2026 Nissan Rogue. Built for what really happened for J.D.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

power.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

2025 US Initial Quality Study Award information. Visit jdpower.com awards awards based on 2025 model year.

[Robert Smigel]

Newer models may be shown.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile and save up to 600 a year. I've Been scouting these big carriers for a minute now and I've seen them pull the same play a thousand times. They promise you the world, then hit you with a price hike right when the game gets tight. But boost mobile, they're 25amonth unless you unlimited wireless plan is the most consistent player on the floor. No contracts, no price hikes. Unlock the savings [e-mail] unlock based on average annual single line payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months of the Boost Mobile unlimited wireless plan as of January 2026. For full offer details, visit Boost Mobile.com

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

now that we got that out of the way, we're going to start. The actual purpose of the show, whatever that is, I can't even remember, but we have someone from Turkey.

[Robert Smigel]

What town in Turkey?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Istanbul.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Real deal.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay. People leave messages on the website.

[Robert Smigel]

On your website?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, it's called speakpipe.com. humor me. Here we go. Let's see what he said.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Hey, Robert, huge fan. I know this might be weird as a request, but I'm trying to send an email to a colleague of yours, Steve o', Donnell, former head writer of this Steve o'.

[Robert Smigel]

Donnell.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

And I'm trying to make it as funny as possible because I stupidly believe that if I make it as funny as possible or funnier than I can be that he might actually return to my email. So I think you could help me because you know the sensibility of the comic writer as good as anyone, I think. Or you may be the most qualified person to actually.

[Robert Smigel]

Damn.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Voice crack. You may be the most qualified person alive to send this email. We could have cut this down humbly requesting your help.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

There we go.

[Robert Smigel]

So that you want to cut down all this other stuff has been fine. Yeah, well, I, I don't know what I. I understand and I believe and I support the premise, but I think what we're witnessing here is the nascent stages of a crime.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Crime.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. He wants to get to know Steve o'. Donnell.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yes, well, he wants Steve o'. Donnell. You're right. He wants to give Steve o' Donnell the false impression that he is worthy of Steve o' Donnell's attention. So maybe we undermine.

[Jim Downey]

Well, one thing I'm going to tell you right now.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, first can I say one thing? How about that?

[Jim Downey]

How about that? See, it's a catchphrase. That's fine. How about that?

[Robert Smigel]

It's way better.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

We are committing a crime.

[Jim Downey]

How about that?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

About that.

[Robert Smigel]

Just a small sound effect. Yes, I would say.

[Jim Downey]

I would Say my first. We know Stephen. Al. Steve o' Neal is going to answer his email regardless. He answers every email, so he could be. It doesn't need to be that great.

[Robert Smigel]

And I think Steve's family is from Turkey. Right? Am I right about that?

[Jim Downey]

He's always loved Turkey. I know that. How does he feel about Hamilton Ham?

[Robert Smigel]

This is deteriorating so quickly.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Family is from ham.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah,

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

but he's all come full circle.

[Robert Smigel]

But do we trust the man? Honestly, it's just a guy who answers a website thing. Is that what he did? He thinks he won a contest or. What is this?

[Jim Downey]

I think. I think we kind of have to trust him, don't we?

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

On the Internet. Why wouldn't you?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I mean.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah. He wouldn't be allowed to impersonate.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He wouldn't be a decent, entertaining.

[Robert Smigel]

I'm enjoying myself.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, good. Oh, good.

[Jim Downey]

See?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

So maybe we. Maybe that's the lesson.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay. So anyway, what is our responsibility here, Jim? Well, we're.

[Jim Downey]

We're trying, I think, as I understand it, the premise of. How about that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It's to.

[Jim Downey]

It's to get. It's to help help this guy connect with Steve o'. Donnell.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Ultimately. I know it's a crime on some level, but ultimately Steve will find out.

[Jim Downey]

Do you think it's an immigration thing?

[Robert Smigel]

I. I just keep thinking that the three of us will be in a small room downtown answering questions, and we'll say it was in the trunk of a rental car at LaGuardia.

[Jim Downey]

You know what? They're going to try to turn us against each other. So can we please agree here and now, whatever we do. Yeah. We stay to the same goddamn story, please.

[Robert Smigel]

Right. Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

Because I know. I know how these people operate. What is the story that we. It was a podcast. We do not know this guy.

[Robert Smigel]

No.

[Jim Downey]

He wanted very badly to connect with Steve o', Donnell, and we offered advice.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

The people at I heart vetted him. Told us that they vetted him poorly.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, that's what they want you to believe.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, I'm making this up.

[Jim Downey]

This is our story.

[Robert Smigel]

I'm sorry.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

This is part of our story. I'm trying to absolve.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes, yes.

[Jim Downey]

That's. My understanding was that he had been.

[Robert Smigel]

We were thoroughly.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That there was an indemnified.

[Jim Downey]

Thank you.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay, so I think we're ready to talk to him.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay, so who are we talking to? We're talking to the guy.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

We're talking to the guy. Barack.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Okay.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Is his name. Is it Barack?

[Jim Downey]

B U R A K burak.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Ask him how to pronounce It. Okay. We're gonna give it a shot. We're going to throw our trust in Barack.

[Jim Downey]

Is he on live with us?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He's about to be joining us.

[Jim Downey]

Oh, okay. I should have paid more attention to them.

[Robert Smigel]

Me, too.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

To the premise?

[Jim Downey]

No, no. To the email you sent.

[Robert Smigel]

I was hoping to beat traffic.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

How about that? Okay, let's go for this.

[Robert Smigel]

Jim's not feeling well.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

None of us are. None of us are. Okay.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Hello.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Hey, Barack. Can you see me? It's Robert.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah, I can.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, Barack, I thank you for your inquiry. I'm just gonna get a few things out of the way. You want help writing a fan letter to Steve o', Donnell, and you've been thoroughly vetted by iheart.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay. Got one more person to say it. And now I've brought in a couple of people who have worked with Steve o', Donnell, you know, because, yes, my comic sensibility, blah, blah, blah, But I don't really know Steve o' Donnell very well. So I've brought in a couple of people to help me help you. So can we cut to the first. My first guest who's gonna help you? Did you see him? That's Jim Downey.

[Jim Downey]

Hi, Barack.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Jim Downey, who's known for. Yeah, you know who he is. Principal. But more importantly for this purpose, he wrote with Steve o'. Donnell. Well, for a few years, worked closely with Steve o' Donnell on the show Late Night with David Letterman.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You seem excited to meet Jim. It's a podcast, so feel free to say audible things. Okay. Okay. I'm glad you're okay. So, you know, Jim. Jim's gonna. Jim's here to help you. Now, I brought one other person who worked on the. This Late Night with David Letterman show. Can we pan and. And show him there? That's.

[Robert Smigel]

Hi, Barack.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

This is Dave from Indianapolis.

[Robert Smigel]

Hi.

[Jim Downey]

Hello.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Honestly, you're gonna have to speak.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

You brought a random old guy.

[Robert Smigel]

I am the random old guy. How dare you. How dare you right out of the box. Well, write your own letter.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, for real. It's just. We're not gonna insult Steve o' Donnell if you. If that's what you're looking for is snappy insult comedy, it's not happening.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

No, no, no.

[Robert Smigel]

Get the dog.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, yeah. The dog's in a Duane Reade bag next to my bed, Barack. Okay. Are you over your. You seem shocked, Barack. Let me remind you, this is a

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

podcast, but I'm good to go.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay, good, good. Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

May I ask you a question, Barack? What is the objective for the email or Letter to Steve o'. Donnell.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Did you hear that?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Well, for me, I just wanted to ask him a question about comedy, but maybe the grander scheme.

[Robert Smigel]

Right, but from my point of view, you couldn't have done a better impression. Just tremendous. I'm ready to sign.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

All you need to do is zoom.

[Robert Smigel]

Steve, apparently, what has been your experience in comedy?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

I have no experience in comedy except for writing a couple of jokes for myself.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, that's pretty much all it takes. You're on a rocket ship to the moon, my friend. You are Artemis 3.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Is that your goal, to be in comedy? I guess we have a. I don't

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

think that I could say that my goal is to be in comedy, because it kind of seems surreal to me as a goal, because I don't see a path that leads to it. But I guess that will be a dream.

[Robert Smigel]

I think that's smart. Barak, can you tell the three of us here a little bit about yourself? For example, what did you do today, Monday in Turkey?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Today, I was teaching my students, who are. Who are debaters, things about structuring arguments.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, right.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He is a debate expert.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

No, no, I studied. I majored in industrial engineering, but I ended up debating in the national circuit. So that just turned out to be my profession.

[Robert Smigel]

Do you have a family, Barack?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

I have a brother.

[Jim Downey]

Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

Are you currently appearing on Broadway? I'm sorry, we're going to turn over all the cards, Barack, because.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It does feel like. What's my line, Arlene? Your turn. People who served in World War II.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

So, Barack, I think it might help to give you a little insight into Steve o' Donnell and maybe what he would appreciate in a letter. And, Jim, you've known him the longest.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

That would be great.

[Jim Downey]

I would say Steve is a good person, but like the rest of us, he likes a little bit of flattery.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

What about in particular? Yeah, what would he like?

[Jim Downey]

I would open with maybe a compliment on his smile. You know, you take a lot of pride in his.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

In his smile.

[Jim Downey]

He does. Like, if I. If I were saying, you know, you could even make it up. You can claim you saw him on some talk show and you were struck by his gleaming teeth or his, you know, his just. The whole presentation is that he has gives off an aura of someone, you know, that anyone would be honored to have as a friend. I mean, that. At least I think that would disarm him. And now that you mentioned the debate, you're like, must be a top debater. If people come to you for. Because there can't be that many people who teach debate are there in Istanbul.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah, I was the national champion a couple years ago.

[Jim Downey]

There you go. National champion, right. I would get that into the first sentence. As a national debate champion in my country of Turkey, I think I'm a good judge of these things. And your smile just lights up a room. Something like that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I don't think I'd have any trouble debating the quality of your smile.

[Jim Downey]

There you go. That's pretty good.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

But also that would be an easy thing to take the pro on.

[Jim Downey]

Now this is kind of a. This is swinging for the fences here. But if you, you could challenge him to a debate.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, and say.

[Jim Downey]

And say, whoa. You pick the venue. I'll go anywhere, anytime, any place. I will, you know, a mano. You and me, toe to toe. You can pick the venue. If I get to pick the topic.

[Robert Smigel]

The topic. I would. Let me interrupt here. Yes or no? Steve o' Donnell is the funniest man in America.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Who.

[Robert Smigel]

There you go.

[Jim Downey]

See, he's gonna resolve. Steve o' Donnell is the funniest man in America. And you take the pro side and then what's he gonna do? He's gonna win that debate.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't think so.

[Jim Downey]

I think you take the pro side. Leave him arguing against his own talent. Yeah, well, right.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

A lot of comedy writers like to do that in public. They like to be very self effacing.

[Jim Downey]

I think also this guy's national champion.

[Robert Smigel]

I put my money on Steve wins erudition. He's very edition. Yeah, yeah. Flatter him because he is erudite beyond the definition of the word. And like you, his. Well, I wouldn't say. Yeah, I would say he's pasty.

[Jim Downey]

Oh, oh. Can I, can I. Something that Dave, you might remember.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, this is good.

[Jim Downey]

Something that you. That you do not want to hear. Go ahead.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, go ahead.

[Jim Downey]

It probably is Steve Onono his entire life and I know this from the very first time I met him. Has. Do you have Rice Krispies in Turkey? Because it's deep.

[Robert Smigel]

Deep dive.

[Jim Downey]

It's a breakfast cereal. It's a breakfast cereal in the United States. And there is.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He said he does. He does.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay.

[Jim Downey]

There are three characters. Snap, Crackle Pop.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Are they on the COVID of your. You're familiar with Snap Crackle Pop?

[Jim Downey]

Well, Steve is in.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

We just have a generic.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

What? They just have the cereal on the front. Okay.

[Jim Downey]

Wow.

[Robert Smigel]

You don't want a bastard.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah. Now I don't want to visit.

[Jim Downey]

Well, there is. I've just finished the thought in case you should encounter the box and he's

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

gonna wanna Google it now.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah. Okay. You'll look it up. Okay.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

There's cracklepie.

[Jim Downey]

If you Google Kellogg's Rice Krispies, you will see these three cartoon characters. Snap, Crackle and Pop. And Steve o'. Donnell. His entire life, from childhood, has been tormented for people accusing him of looking like Crackle. Really?

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. Oh, I kind of remember.

[Jim Downey]

That's true.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He does.

[Jim Downey]

I remembered there was a woman who was on the show, and I was standing there with Andy Brechman and Steve o', Donnell, and it was an African American woman, and she was standing there going, you know who you favor? You know who you favor. And I know that Steve knew that she was thinking of Crackle. And she finally came up Rice Krispies. And he laughed because what else could he do? But he was hurt because it disappeared for days. It had been a while. We knew enough not to. To bring it up. So I guess what I'm saying is if it at any point crossed your mind that it would.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It hadn't. But now it would.

[Jim Downey]

It probably hadn't. He's not. It's not a compliment. Whatever you do, tell him that he looks like Crackle.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. But what if he brings up the fact that he doesn't look like Crackle? Would that be better off? Not if he brings it up.

[Robert Smigel]

If he says, I don't think I

[Jim Downey]

look like Crackle, you would go, who would say that? That's nuts.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It could be suspicious.

[Robert Smigel]

Are you.

[Jim Downey]

That's a joke, right? You don't anything like Crackle.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I guess that would.

[Jim Downey]

Or Snap or Pop, for that matter.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That's true. So maybe he would take it as a dish.

[Jim Downey]

You know what? Maybe just stay away from the whole. I would even stay away from Kellogg's breakfast or rice.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Any rice product.

[Jim Downey]

Any rice.

[Robert Smigel]

I had a curiosity about Cocoa Puffs. Do you have those?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah, we do have those. But unlike you guys, we don't put weird characters on, like.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, I think that's smart. Good job, Vermeer.

[Jim Downey]

Dewan.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

How are you going to addict young children to eating sugary breakfast cereals?

[Robert Smigel]

Barack, say a few words about Arabic.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Encouraging the addiction of children seems to be a uniquely American thing.

[Kal Penn]

Ouch.

[Jim Downey]

Thank you.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, I thought we had exported that, like, you know, like wrestling and I

[Robert Smigel]

want to hear something about. I want to hear something about Erdogan.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Go ahead.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Oh, Erdogan. So you guys get me arrested, I guess. Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes. That's the whole purpose of the afternoon. We would like to see you zip tied and Taken away.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

You've been playing the long con, I guess, there.

[Jim Downey]

The long con, yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Dave, Dave, flash your badge.

[Robert Smigel]

This is the long con. Yes, exactly. Boy, is it ever.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Dave's entire career has.

[Robert Smigel]

I drove in from Westchester.

[Kal Penn]

Dave.

[Jim Downey]

Dave will get one of those secret CIA medals at a secret ceremony posing

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

as a talk show host. Wow.

[Jim Downey]

But Barack did make a good point. We have done a lot of damage in the world with our. Oh, sure, exporting our sugar.

[Robert Smigel]

That's the fun of being an American. Yeah.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Mainly cereal. I think if I were to incriminate the United States, the first thing that came to mind would be Syria.

[Robert Smigel]

Sure.

[Jim Downey]

But again. But again, we've agreed that's not a topic we want to get into in the. In an email.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

How did you come around to wanting to speak with Steve o' Donnell in particular? Is there. Did you like his particular. Any bits that he's well known for or.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

I was hoping to find the email address of any comedy writer, and Steve was the only one who made the mistake of making it so creeps like me could write it.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay, that's not going to be in the email. That's not going to be in the letter.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

But surely you have respect for him as a comedy writer. It's not solely because he was successful. I first saw him on the Great

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Writer podcast of Norm MacDonald. Norm Live episode.

[Jim Downey]

There you go.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And yes, he's worked with Norm closely, Jimmy Kimmel very closely. And obviously was head writer for how many years for you on the NBC show?

[Robert Smigel]

Not long enough, I can say that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Are you familiar with any of his particular contributions to Late Night?

[Robert Smigel]

Let's give him Kimmel's number.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah. Individually wrapped cereal.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

What was the first thing you said?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

The individually wrapped cereal as an idea was the weirdest cereal.

[Jim Downey]

That was, Steve.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It was individually wrapped Corn flakes. It was a new product.

[Jim Downey]

Right, right.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

But is that going to evoke Rice Krispies? Are we going to have that problem if he brings that up in the letter?

[Robert Smigel]

It's the least year problem.

[Jim Downey]

It depends on how it's done. If it's done carefully, you know, I think you can head off any implication that he looks like. I mean, don't get into like Tony the Tiger or any of that stuff.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, my God.

[Jim Downey]

That'll just get.

[Robert Smigel]

That's a prestigious son of.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay, so individually wrapped Corn flakes. That's a great one. What else did you. The top 10? Was that it?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

I mean, the top 10 numbers from 1 to 10 is a classic.

[Jim Downey]

He wrote some of the very funniest top 10 list.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

But he's specifically talking about one through 10.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, top 10 numbers. That was cool.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oddly enough, though, this is not to denigrate Steve ODonnell, but some version of the top 10 originated on the new show.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah, I did a top five thing which was similar and that was part of the part.

[Robert Smigel]

We got it from you. Is that what happened?

[Jim Downey]

Yeah, partly, yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, so that expansion bitterness all these years? No, I've not been bitter any bitterness.

[Jim Downey]

But the point is, Steve, is I, to my mind, wrote the funniest top 10 jokes. Jokes that I have ever heard. I mean, he. I just knew it was his voice when I would hear.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Do you have any examples of favorite.

[Jim Downey]

Well, again, I hope to God I'm right about this. It was when. And it was like top 10 excuses for the Bills losing their third Super bowl in a row. And one of them was a ill chosen halftime rallying cry of let's win this for the late Roy Cohn.

[Robert Smigel]

I can remember that one time I was very frustrated with the top tens that were coming in, so I passed out the books that Steve o' Donnell had contributed and the writers were so angry with me that they quit.

[Jim Downey]

Are you serious? No.

[Robert Smigel]

They eventually came back, but Bad gesture on my part.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

They just felt like you were just trying to show them what the best versions were.

[Robert Smigel]

That's what I was trying to do. Lord knows I was always trying to do my best.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Wow.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Because I dealt with this on Conan too. We thought we were pretty hip and yet there are always a couple of writers who think you're being hacked. Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, that's right. We had a writer, a very well known person who quit and left outside my door a stack of material of his that had not been selected.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Oh, no.

[Robert Smigel]

And with a note. You could have had this material. And then audios.

[Jim Downey]

Oh, my God. Will you tell us later?

[Robert Smigel]

I will tell you later. Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

Okay, great.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Did his name rhyme with no George Ryer?

[Jim Downey]

It's not anyone. We're George.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It wasn't George.

[Robert Smigel]

We had to send him a jug of liquor to get him to come back one time.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I can't believe that. Cause George was that way when I went to Saturday Night Live.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, yes. He couldn't be hip enough for George.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah. And his catchphrase, which I thought originated at SNL because all he would talk about was how cool your show was, which we all thought so. And he would just say when he would see a bad sketch at dress show. Dying, farewell little show.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, my God.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You used to be so good. Back in the 70s, back when the writers cared, you could just go on and on.

[Jim Downey]

George had extremely high standards, but he

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

really felt that way at Letterman, too.

[Robert Smigel]

I remember I took it personally, but I'm glad to hear it. He took that with him to other productions.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah. And then when I was at Conan, I had writers like that at the beginning of Conan who were just like, really? We're doing another actual items.

[Jim Downey]

No, yeah, I know.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

It is.

[Jim Downey]

It is. When I was there, they didn't think I was like this incredible hack square. But some of the people were like, like, oh, really? We're doing that? Yeah. They go, yeah, we're doing. It's funny. Come on.

[Robert Smigel]

And also, it's an hour every damn day.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

So that's what Conan would take.

[Robert Smigel]

Listen, Barack, thank you very much. I know you got to run. You're doing another podcast. Great to see you. No, no, we'll validate your parking, my friend. Good luck.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I'm sorry, we just. I'm just enjoying being near this. These people, they're my heroes and. Wait. So. We'll be right back with you, I swear.

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[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

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[Kal Penn]

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[Kal Penn]

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[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

When you actually hear the performance, you realize that other people are taking your words and what you thought was kind of a straightforward sentence like, the cat in the corner is black. In my head, it's the cat in the corner is black. Not the dog, not the gerbil. But someone else might say it, the cat in the corner is black. That's Always fascinating to me how they just bring in all these different nuances and really make it fun and interesting and distinctive.

[Kal Penn]

Listen to Hearsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts,

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

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[Jim Downey]

From the show last night to this drive.

[Robert Smigel]

Why is it never chill? Because this is our life backstage on the road.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It's loud, messy, real.

[Robert Smigel]

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[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

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[Robert Smigel]

That's why it holds up. Nissan was ranked number one in initial quality among mainstream brands by J.D.

[Kal Penn]

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[Robert Smigel]

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[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

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[Robert Smigel]

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[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

wait. We were just talking about.

[Jim Downey]

Steve was, was brilliant and extremely supportive of everyone.

[Robert Smigel]

He was one of the guys and he was absolutely so patient with.

[Jim Downey]

He was the best.

[Robert Smigel]

We would be late on a Friday night trying to think of something to do Thursday night trying to do something for Friday. And I just wore the poor man out. And. And you could see he would do this and the veins would appear in his forehead, but he was nothing.

[Jim Downey]

I mean, I've always said probably, yeah,

[Robert Smigel]

but you know, there was a time then when, when it happened, like six weeks in a row, every Friday, every Thursday night, a writer that we really, really enjoyed and got a kick out of would come in and quit. And that was very difficult.

[Jim Downey]

Wow. Because I like some of us felt like it was almost to like, if you feel like you've thought of every idea you're going to think of, you make way for someone that it was a responsibility to.

[Robert Smigel]

Perhaps that was it at the time. It seemed to be something different. But as the guy whose name was in the title of the show, I just felt like I had been gutted, you know, because these were people who were super funny. Really, really strong.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, that's. I'm surprised because the nature of a talk show, because I got to do the Conan show, and compared to snl, it felt so much less stressful to be a writer on a talk show, because every day, because of the volume business, snl, everything is up to that week. And also, every show is more unique because it's based around a host. So you feel like if you've written this joke and. Or this. These sketches and they don't get on that they're just gone. But on a talk show, it feels like you might get a shot.

[Robert Smigel]

My old manager, Jack Rollins, I can remember him sitting in a chair, and he said, dave, these are like. The material you're doing here is like a paper cup. You just tear it up and throw it away. And as insulting as that might seem, it was factual. And the only way to live in that nonsense every night.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

It's ironic, though, because, yes, all that stuff felt very disposable.

[Jim Downey]

Every year, every month of late night, there was something great that was as

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

substantial as I was watching. It was more than every year, every

[Jim Downey]

month, as worthy of remembering as any, you know.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, here's the irony is that now the Internet exists, and people digest a lot more stuff in short form than they do in long form.

[Robert Smigel]

Barack, what was the funniest bit I ever did that you like so much with your friends back there in Turkey?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah, well, none of my friends back here in Turkey know you, but.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay, speaking of friends, way to make friends.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yes, that's not going to be in the letter either. Barack. Barack, how did you come about. So you.

[Robert Smigel]

I.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Norm's podcast. That's how you first saw.

[Robert Smigel]

That's a pretty good place to start, isn't it?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Right. But did you also. Did you. Did you get to watch, like, Dave has a YouTube page now where. No, I'm very grateful for it. I get to watch stuff I hadn't seen in years.

[Robert Smigel]

You and I have to do something together, maybe the three of us. I mean, certainly not this, but something.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That's all. I just wanted to. I wanted to talk about a project, and we're going to do that in the next hour. Okay. Okay, Barack, how about this? Would. I love to answer to your question. Okay, go ahead. No, answer the question.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

I mainly scour YouTube for. For obscure clips, and if I can find anything that I like, I go to the Internet Archive for your all of you guys episodes of late, like

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

back in the 80s. Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

So I was gonna say what I love to hear the rare times anyone comes up to me is when they say something like, you know, you helped me through a difficult time. That kind of thing. That sort of. Because we. It's such a silly profession, and it's great to make people laugh, but. Well, those are the times when you feel like, oh, you're reminded that you're serving a purpose, some humanity there.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah. So what if you did that, but in a funny way? Like, doesn't sound funny, but. But if you said something like, you know, and you would make up scenarios so he'd know it was a joke, but, like, create a tragedy. Like, you know, my. My grandmother was in the hospital and she was clearly close. You know, touch and go.

[Robert Smigel]

How about this? That Erdogan came, dragged her out of her house. Is that a hook there?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That is a hook.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I think we should build to that, though.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, okay.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

So let's start with a conventional one. She's in the hospital. It was touch and go. She was miserable. Going through, you know, some kind of treatments.

[Jim Downey]

Hit and run, maybe.

[Robert Smigel]

Run. Oh, a little bit is crazy.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay. That's going to be the next one. And the only thing that would make her happy was when you played the tape of individually wrapped corn flakes.

[Jim Downey]

You understand?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And then you proceed.

[Robert Smigel]

Finally, we're getting somewhere.

[Kal Penn]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And then the next one is like, okay, my sister in law was in a hit and run accident.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

How about, for example, my grandmother is only alive today because. Because of individually wrapped corn flakes.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Beautiful. No, but let's, you know, maybe that's. The first one is individually wrapped. She's only alive today. Hit and run accident. She's only alive today because of the expression husky idlers.

[Jim Downey]

Okay. Whoa.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You know, I heard Steve say that he came up with the expression husky idlers.

[Robert Smigel]

Favorite expression. Yes. We loved it. Weren't certain of the context, but loved the combination of words.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yes. Husky.

[Robert Smigel]

Describing someone as a husky idler.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yes.

[Robert Smigel]

Since the dawn of civilization, eyeglass wearers are. Have been subject to ridicule, harassment, and occasional jostling by husky idlers. Yes. Ideal.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That was something.

[Robert Smigel]

Good luck with that, Barack.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

This is great. And then. And then the third one, she was dragged, you know, or my father was dragged by Erdogan. Or maybe we build to the Erdogan one, but depending on how many, you know, you probably only need three.

[Robert Smigel]

I think Three is the number in comedy.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Three is the number in comedy. Hard season, case and three. So. And then the only thing. So she was being dragged. You create the scenario for us.

[Robert Smigel]

Somehow she was seen in public railing against the government and Erdogan got wind of this and invited her to some sort of festivity at the state hall. Do they have a state hall in Turkey?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Sure, they.

[Robert Smigel]

And. And just as they were about. Yeah, just as they were about to award her something lovely, they zip tied her and took her away. And we didn't see her for the rest of the weekend.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And she said that the only thing that sustained her.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes. And the only thing that kept her alive, that gave her the will to live, was.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Was watching Mood. Oh, go. You got one. I was.

[Jim Downey]

Was thinking of the fragile porcelain mice.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Is that a Steve thing?

[Jim Downey]

It's a Steve o' Donnell thing, isn't it?

[Robert Smigel]

Fragile porcelain mice.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I don't know. She's in a pretty dire position here. Is that enough? I was gonna say seeing Moojiber and Sirajoul sing with Tom Jones.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, no. What about the Velcro suit? Suit of Velcro.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Is that a Steve o' Donnell bit, though? It has to be a Steve o'

[Robert Smigel]

Donnell for the purpose of this podcast. Yes. Yes, it is. It's a solid Steve o' Donnell bit. She loved the Velcro suit and is alive today because.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Well, she was alive for a while,

[Robert Smigel]

for a longer time than anyone expected.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

What do you think of that approach? Steve would probably like it because presumably it's funny. And secondly, presumably it wouldn't hold up in court.

[Robert Smigel]

Of course.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And secondly, it acknowledges Steve's contributions to the show.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

I think that approach would be great. And I saw him talk about how he loud like bits about animals anthropomorphized. So maybe we could find something along

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

that line that seems more like my shit.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah, he might have been talking about Triumph.

[Robert Smigel]

That's exactly what he was talking about.

[Jim Downey]

You know what, Barack? I should write a letter to Robert. No, I have his email address.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, this is about Steve. We have to adhere to the rules of the podcast. Otherwise he'd be writing a letter to Dave or to you.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't have a valid.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, no, they're completely unreachable. They're completely unreachable. But there are a few other ones you could mention. You could mention Noodles the wet dog drying off in slow motion. Oh, that something.

[Robert Smigel]

That's fantastic.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, because I. I watched Steve's three part episodes of his favorite bits. Oh, that's I think that would connect him. Dog Jacks, which was something you guys. You guys had a love of fried bologna and you. You made. Oh, that's right.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, I remember that, too. Yes.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Waffles that were made out of.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, bologna. Yeah. My mom used to make fried bologna sandwiches. They were fantastic.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

She didn't make waffles.

[Robert Smigel]

Do you have bologna and turkey?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Not with cartoon characters, just regular bologna.

[Jim Downey]

Okay, good.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Also, could I pitch something for the.

[Robert Smigel]

We really don't have time.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I'm so, so. No, go ahead. Of course.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Of course, Go ahead. Barack, please pitch away along the lines of animals.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Like, it's kind of a hack joke in Turkey, but maybe outside that will work. So, you know, like the phrase love from X the country. Like love from Turkey the country. I also have a pet turkey, but he hates your work. Like, maybe something like that.

[Robert Smigel]

He has a pet turkey that hates Steve o'. Donnell'?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I think he would like that. Yeah, I think he would like that very much.

[Robert Smigel]

Yes.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

And then I think you should also throw in his. A little. Just a throwaway comment about his smile and, and. And something. I think you might, toward the end, maybe in the salutation, the closing salutation, you know, instead of, like, sincerely, maybe just. You don't look like Crackle Maraque.

[Robert Smigel]

Right. Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, Just throw it in at the very.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. And by the way, we're both patients.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Nothing wrong with being pasty.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Comma.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Barack. Okay, I think we're all set.

[Robert Smigel]

I think we are, too. Oh, thank you. No, it's been fun.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Thank you, Barack. And we'll follow up and see how Steve received your. Your email.

[Jim Downey]

I will tell you, he's gonna answer.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

And the only shocking thing will be how quickly

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

it's the kind of guy he is. He's a great.

[Robert Smigel]

Have you been to the United States?

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Could I do a couple of update jokes for you guys?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, yes, go ahead.

[Robert Smigel]

Just ignore me. Good Christ.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He's excited about sharing a joke.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Go ahead.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, let's hear it.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Go ahead, please. Go ahead.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

No, no, I'm going. There's a kind of a lag, so we know.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

We know there's been a lag before you came on. Sorry, sorry.

[Jim Downey]

Go ahead.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

So, regarding the upcoming 99th Ghazi Horse Race, a senior executive stated that their mission was to remind fans of the integral place of horses and culture. When pressed for further comment, the executive nade and galloped away.

[Jim Downey]

I like that.

[Robert Smigel]

I don't know why, but I like that.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah, have another one.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Okay.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

This past Monday was the birth anniversary of painter Vincent van Gogh, who was a man widely described as born before his time and died as an unknown artist. If only he'd been born now he could be an unknown baby.

[Robert Smigel]

I like that also. It makes no sense, but I did like that. Yeah, yeah. Do you have another one, Barack?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, let's hear another one. You couldn't have done this a half an hour ago?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Couldn't have interrupted.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

I have one more. Go ahead. The municipality of Istanbul announced a new initiative to develop green spaces across the city over the next five years. Among the plans are even more violent big green buildings.

[Jim Downey]

I like that.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

That's.

[Jim Downey]

That's my favorite of the three.

[Robert Smigel]

I like the second one also. Or the third one, how many we had.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

They got better as they went along.

[Robert Smigel]

Those are very good. Good.

[Jim Downey]

Those are good.

[Robert Smigel]

Good for you.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Those are very good. We're sorry that we were so useless.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, we're just deliberately useless. We don't know what we're doing.

[Jim Downey]

Wait, he knows about the crackle thing. It could be important.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, he's going to do.

[Jim Downey]

There was that.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

He's going to do great.

[Jim Downey]

Yeah.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay, so now we have to start a Saturday Night Live in Turkey so that you can write for the Weekend update.

[Robert Smigel]

How about that? How is that working out there?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Oh, the English one.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. The British one.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

I have no idea.

[Robert Smigel]

It's nice to see Lauren.

[Jim Downey]

I know there's other Italian income.

[Robert Smigel]

Oh, there's an Italian one. Yeah.

[Jim Downey]

That's the big. That's. I thought was the bigger one, but

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

is that one a SNL sanctioned SNL music?

[Jim Downey]

Okay, I'm the wrong guy. I'm out of touch with all this stuff, except with Steve o'. Donnell. I can help you there.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

There you go. Well, thank you so much and. Okay, we'll talk soon.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Goodbye.

[Jim Downey]

Thank you.

[Robert Smigel]

Thank you.

[Jim Downey]

Bye.

[Robert Smigel]

Bye.

[Unknown Announcer/Host]

Wow.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay.

[Robert Smigel]

How about that? There's quite a lot there and then also not much there. Have you kind of got that?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

That's the beauty of the show.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know about that, but I. I mean, I think we're asking more questions than were answered about the man.

[Jim Downey]

I like her to Juan when he said it's kind of hacky joke in Turkey.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, that's right.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Whoa.

[Jim Downey]

I want to hear about hack jokes from Turkey.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Yeah, I mean, he had a pretty sophisticated humor, which makes sense if he's a fan of you guys.

[Robert Smigel]

Now, did this support the premise, do you think?

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Absolutely.

[Robert Smigel]

Okay, well, our work here is finished, isn't it.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Essentially, it is. Which means that I guess we can say thank you.

[Barack (Caller from Turkey)]

Yeah.

[Robert Smigel]

Thank you very much.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You've got your ham.

[Robert Smigel]

I got my ham.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

You've got your stationary.

[Robert Smigel]

No more than the ham. I have the memories. Yeah. God bless you, my friend. It's so nice. God bless you and God bless you again. Yes, sir.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Thank you both. Thank you both for being in my presence.

[Jim Downey]

Hang out more.

[Robert Smigel]

Well, let's do it.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Okay, well, let's work on a project like you said.

[Robert Smigel]

Yeah, let's get something going. Not this year, of course, but.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

No, no, I'm saying, you know, get

[Robert Smigel]

together around Labor Day. Thank you.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

Thank you so much. Well, we will find out in a little bit.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Bit.

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

How Barack did. If Steve o' Donnell received the letter and how Steve reacted to it after this. Hey, it's Robert. You know what? That's plenty. We're gonna put the rest in a bonus episode. Not. Not a Patreon thing. It's free, but if you subscribe now, we'll send it right to you. Letterman, Downey, Steve o', Donnell, Barack, all headed your way. You're welcome. Humor me with Robert S.M. smiggle and Friends is a production of iHeartMedia and Big Money Players, created by Michelle Sack Smigel, who executive produces with her loving husband Robert. Produced by Frank Stinky Smiley, executive producer for iHeart, Jana Cagle Video producer Danil Goodman Additional material by David Cyrus edited by Robert Ashe Humor Me theme song composed and sung by Tay Zonday. Don't forget to subscribe and follow to get new episodes of Humor Me each week. And while you're there, rate and review the show. That is, if you like. If you didn't, this conversation never happened, and we'll see you next week.

[Kal Penn]

Hey, everyone, it's Kalpen. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with my podcast, Hearsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. Every episode, I nerd out with amazing guests and dive into the best new audiobooks available on Audible. It's the book club for your ears. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts running. A business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales, and somehow none of them talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all in one business management software that brings every part of your business together, from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing, all in one powerful platform. No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs, and best of all, no spreadsheets. Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system. Try for free today at odoo.com iheartradio that's O D O-O-O.com iheartradio here's the truth.

[Robert Smigel]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless Way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month, of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required Intro rate

[Kal Penn]

first three months only, then full price

[Dave (Dave from Indianapolis)]

plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] com this is an iHeart podcast.

[Robert Smigel]

Guaranteed human.