A Better Mousetrap

Summary

Hyperfixed — “A Better Mousetrap” (July 2, 2026)

Host: Alex Goldman
Guests: David Sirota (journalist, author, podcast host), Stacey Higginbotham (Consumer Reports)
Theme: When the tech products we “own” stop working because of decisions made far away — what does ownership mean in the Internet of Things era?

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the surprisingly profound consequences of a small tech failure: journalist David Sirota’s beloved mouse stopped working, provoking a journey into how much control we really have over our digital devices. Host Alex Goldman uses this story to probe deeper questions about ownership, accountability, and the long tail of the Internet of Things (IoT). With insights from consumer tech expert Stacey Higginbotham, the show explores why devices break because of corporate actions, what (if anything) consumers can do, and the policy changes some advocates want.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. David Sirota’s Mouse Disaster: Annoyance Turns Existential

• The Set-Up ([04:37–06:40])

  • David Sirota, a self-described picky user (“a little bit of a gearhead” [04:45] David), describes his attachment to ergonomic computer accessories, especially his reliable wired Logitech mouse.
  • Out of nowhere, the mouse’s scrolling and custom buttons stop working, halting David’s workflow.
  • Quote: “At first I felt kind of self conscious about that. And then I was like, I’m a middle aged person, I’m at my computer a lot... these things that we don’t think about... are actually really important.”
    — David Sirota [05:13]

• Troubleshooting Turns Frustrating ([06:59–08:34])

  • The mouse still powers on, but functionally it’s “like the mouse was having a stroke” ([06:59] Host).
  • David finds online that many others have the exact problem. Logitech eventually admits an expired TLS certificate caused the failure, apologizes, and issues a software patch.

2. The Deeper Problem: What Is “Ownership” in the IoT Era?

• Why Did the Mouse Stop Working? ([09:57–12:06])

  • David is disturbed to learn that his simple wired mouse depends on internet validation.
  • Quote: “The thing that kind of freaked me out is like, wait a minute. Why to use my mouse is my computer going onto the Internet, talking with Logitech for any reason at all? Like, what is that about? The mouse is mine. What is that doing for me?”
    — David Sirota [09:57]

• Clarification ([13:38–15:10])

  • Producer Emma Cortland investigates and discovers: it’s not the mouse itself but the custom control software (Logitech Options Plus) that needs the internet, and the expired certificate was for that app, not the hardware.
  • Users with the same mouse, not using custom settings, weren’t affected.

• Bigger Questions of Ownership ([15:42–16:21])

  • Emma raises the central issue: “If the physical things we own can simply stop working because of some backchannel bullshit that has nothing to do with us, then what does that say about the idea of ownership?” [15:42]
  • Goldman agrees: “Damn, that’s deep.”

3. Expert Insight: Stacey Higginbotham on Consumer Rights and Connected Tech

• Consumer Reports Advocacy ([17:03–17:55])

  • Stacey describes how Consumer Reports tests tech and has pivoted to connected device advocacy.
  • She relates personal stories about her “smart home” and favorite connected oven with AI-powered cooking automation ([18:44–19:23]).

• Mounting Problems with IoT ([19:45–21:28])

  • Great expectations for the IoT have given way to failures, as products become “bricked” due to remote decisions or abandoned support.
  • The core issue: manufacturers often underestimate the “ongoing financial obligation” of supporting connected products, leading to surprise shutdowns or enforced obsolescence.
  • Quote: “For every product that you sell or you sold into the world, you had to budget, you know, two to three dollars a year to keep it working. And that was the weak link that everybody kind of ignored.”
    — Stacey Higginbotham [20:30]

• Subscription Services and Security Overheads ([21:28–22:32])

  • Companies try to recoup ongoing costs via subscriptions, shifting what was a purchase into a recurring relationship.
  • Infrastructure (like TLS certificates) is invisible… until it fails: “This is the stuff consumers shouldn’t know about. But when it doesn’t work… you’re like, wait, what did that? How did that happen?”
    — Stacey Higginbotham [21:53]

• Changed Notions of Ownership ([23:25–25:26])

  • CR pushes for laws requiring companies to disclose how long a connected product will be supported at the time of sale.
  • Cautionary tales: smart e-bikes and exercise gear that cease to function when their parent company fails.

4. Advocacy, Accountability, and Potential Solutions

• Consumer Reports Policy Goals ([32:59–34:13])

  • Degrading gracefully: Devices should retain basic functions, even if cloud services end.
  • Financial planning: Companies should escrow funds to keep products running for a minimum promised time.
  • End-of-life disclosure: Manufacturers should explicitly state support timelines.
  • Quote: “When you sell a connected device, you should make sure it, we call it, degrades gracefully. So when you stop supporting it, a customer should still be able to use it for its core function.”
    — Stacey Higginbotham [32:59]

• Consumer Advice ([34:58–35:21])

  • Always ask at the point of sale: how long will this product be supported?

5. David Sirota’s Aftermath: Lasting Mistrust

• Update Woes Continue ([35:55–36:58])
  • Even after patching, Logitech’s abrupt software update crashed David’s mouse during a live interview.
  • Quote: “It was just like, no, we’re just going to stop working now… It’s like digitally rude.”
    — David Sirota [36:58]
  • David vows to always suspect the Logitech app first for future glitches — a legacy of mistrust instilled by this incident.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tech Dependency:
  “Shaving is not something you do for five minutes, it’s something you do for a lifetime… These things that we don’t think about… are actually really important…”
  — David Sirota [05:13]

• On Hidden Tech Vulnerabilities:
  “The mouse is mine. What is that doing for me?”
  — David Sirota [09:57]

• The Ownership Paradox:
  “If you own the thing but its functionality is controlled by someone else forever, then do you really own the thing?”
  — Emma Cortland [15:42]

• On Lifecycle Disclosure:
  “We are pushing for legislation that requires companies… to tell you when you buy these products, how long they plan to support them at a minimum… I want to know that before spending $6,000 on a treadmill.”
  — Stacey Higginbotham [23:25 & 34:58]

• On Manufacturer Accountability:
  “You used to just buy stuff and it would work until, like, it physically broke… But now it’s like, it seems functional and now it doesn’t work.”
  — Stacey Higginbotham [24:09]

• On Software Updates:
  “It was just like, no, we’re just going to stop working now… It’s like digitally rude.”
  — David Sirota [36:58]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [04:37] — David Sirota introduces his mouse woes
• [06:59] — The mouse “stroke” and troubleshooting begins
• [08:27] — Realization: it’s a widespread problem; Logitech’s TLS certificate expired
• [09:57–12:06] — Existential freakout: What does it mean that your hardware depends on the internet?
• [13:38–15:10] — Emma Cortland’s clarification about the real cause (the software app, not hardware)
• [17:03–21:28] — Stacey Higginbotham on Consumer Reports, smart home mishaps, and the economic reality of supporting connected products
• [23:25–25:26] — Push for legal reforms and transparency around product lifespan
• [32:59–34:13] — Consumer Reports’ specific advocacy points
• [35:55] — David’s new update crash, lasting digital distrust

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Episode Takeaways

• Modern “ownership” is complicated: In the IoT era, consumers may not truly own products in the way they expect, as continued functioning is often dependent on distant servers, ongoing company support, and software updates outside their control.
• Transparency is key: Advocates want laws requiring companies to disclose minimum support periods and ensure “graceful degradation” of features, letting core functions persist even if cloud connectivity is lost.
• Vigilance is needed: Until better policy is in place, consumers should always ask about support lifetimes — especially for expensive, connected purchases.
• Lasting impact: Small glitches in invisible systems can deeply shake trust and change user behavior, transforming everyday annoyance into existential worry about technology and autonomy.

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Tone & Style

Conversational, witty, and casually philosophical — blending real-world tech frustration with big-picture questions about autonomy, corporate responsibility, and digital life.

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For those wondering if they really “own” their stuff in the connected era, this episode delivers both personal and policy insights — and a healthy dose of justified paranoia.

Transcript

[Alex Goldman]

Our Radiotopia colleagues, the Kitchen Sisters have a new series rolling out over the next year called Quilts as Monuments. Their first story chronicles Sew Their Names, an unlikely collaboration between an African American preacher, a white federal court judge, and a group of rural Alabama quilters. Recently, hundreds of long forgotten pre Civil War names of enslaved and segregated black members of churches across Alabama were uncovered in the Baptist Archive. The Sew Their Names project is bringing people together across the state to embroider, memorialize and bring these names alive on quilts.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

When I went to working on the quilt, I said, now these people can speak out amongst what I'm doing.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

The project is going to help us remember. It's always good to have a memorial. You don't hide the past.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

It was something that was we owned.

[Emma Cortland]

It was something that we owned up

[Stacey Higginbotham]

to and we went away with our history. Maybe we'll become a monument.

[Alex Goldman]

The Kitchen Sisters present Sew Their Names, Quilts as Monuments Wherever you get your podcasts,

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

this episode of Hyperfixed is brought to you by Talky A Tree. So I speak from experience when I say that talk therapy is good. But if your anxiety, depression or ADHD are more than just a rough patch, you might need more than talk therapy or self help tools. And in spite of its name, Talk Iatry is not talk therapy. Talk I actually connects you with real psychiatrists so you can actually understand what's going on and get a treatment and medication plan that works. Unlike therapy only platforms, Talk I atry is psychiatry. You are seeing a medical provider who can diagnose mental health conditions and prescribe medication when it's appropriate. All 800 clinicians are in network with major insurers so you can use your existing insurance instead of paying monthly subscriptions or out of network costs. You can meet with a licensed psychiatrist who takes the time to understand what's going on, builds a personalized treatment plan and supports you over time with consistent evidence based care. Getting started takes just a few minutes. Complete a short online assessment, get matched with clinicians who fit your needs and schedule your first visit in days, not months. Head to toe to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's talkiatry.com hyperfix to get matched in minutes. This episode of Hyperfixed is brought to you by Drip Drop Quick question have you ever wanted to drip something into your water and then drop it into your mouth? Well, well, I have incredible news for you about a new product and you'll never guess what it's called. Drip Drop is doctor developed proven fast hydration that helps your body and mind work better, which is exactly what 2026 U needs. Think support for busy days, long workouts and everything in between. And one of these days they'll recognize the genius of my ad slogan about dripping it in your water and dropping it in your mouth. But until then, I gotta tell you that Tripdrop uses science based formulas for rapid hydration so you feel results fast while getting three times the electrolytes of leading sports drinks. Drip Drop is trusted by firefighters, medical professionals, and over 90% of top college and pro sports teams because it's engineered to hydrate you faster and more effectively than water. And most importantly, they sent me some and let me tell you, I dripped it in some water and I dropped it right into my dang mouth and I was hydrated. Also, I'm really into citrus flavors and they have a whole category of citrus flavors to get into, so that was convenient for me. Right now, Drip Drop is offering podcast listeners 20% off your first order. Go to drip drop.com and use promo code HYPER FIXED. That's drip drop.com promo code HYPER FIXED for 20% off. Stock up now at drip drop.com and use promo code hyper fixed. Drip Drop. Drip it into your water and drop it into your mouth. Hi, I'm Alex Goldman and this is Hyperfixed. Each week on our show, listeners write in with their problems, big and small, and I solve them, or at least I try. And if I don't, I at least give a good reason why I can't. This week, a story about a mouse that's actually about everything. I'm going to kind of ask you to tell me the story of how this happened to you. But before we even get started. Are you like a computer accessories guy? Do you like the finer things? Are you a connoisseur?

[David Sirota]

No. No.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

This is David Sirota. He's a journalist, author, and podcast host. And this is his producer, Ron.

[David Sirota]

He's lying. He's a gearhead. I. I'm a little bit of a gearhead. I'm not like crazy, like, but I'm picky about what I find, like, ergonomically comfortable.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Right?

[David Sirota]

So, like, which keyboard I have and which mouse I have is a very deliberative process. Like, I'm the kind of person who will like, buy three or four keyboards and mouses and try them out and be like, okay, I like this one. This is good for my wrist.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

I don't know that I've ever heard of anybody doing that, honestly.

[David Sirota]

At first I felt like kind of self conscious about that. And then I was like, I'm a middle aged person, I'm at my computer a lot. And like, it sort of made me think about there's, there's this old shaving commercial, I think it was Gillette, where they were like, shaving is not something you do for five minutes, it's something you do for a lifetime. Right. And I was like, oh, wow, that's actually an interesting point. Right, like, so it's like these things that we don't think about that actually are like, really important and that we're using a lot and they, they seem small and almost invisible, but they're actually really important if you're using them a lot.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

The reason we're spending so much time talking about gear is because it's the subject of today's episode. You see, David and I have been Internet friends for a couple years, but we'd never actually communicated directly until earlier this year when David wrote me about an experience he had with one of his devices. The device in question was a mouse made by a company called Logitech. It had a cord because David hates Bluetooth, and a scroll wheel because that's very important to him, and an ergonomic grip because he wants to protect his wrist and knuckles. And for three years, this thing functioned like an extension of David's arm. And then in January of this year, it suddenly stopped working. And the story of how that happened has left him with some pretty big and profound questions. So can you set the scene for me a little bit? Like, how did you notice this was happening?

[David Sirota]

So I'm working on a series of articles. I'm trying to be with my family. It was still, it was still around Christmas vacation, the kids were off, I'm working late one night and Logitech mouse suddenly stopped working.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

To be totally clear, the mouse wasn't broken exactly. It still had power and he could move a cursor around. But the way it was behaving, it was like the mouse was having a stroke.

[David Sirota]

First, the scrolling stopped working. And, you know, you're scrolling a lot. That's, you know, normal thing. But then the buttons on the mouse didn't work. And I have a very bespoke way. I set up my buttons on, you know, you can customize the buttons, like, you know, make the screen go away, you know, show me the desktop. Take a screenshot. You know, we all have our weird little idiosyncrasies and it stops working.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

This completely halts the work that David's trying to get done. So he starts trying to troubleshoot this thing. He finds his way to the software system that controls the mouse and begins tinkering with some of the settings, but nothing works. And now suddenly, his mouse is just totally unresponsive. Like, no functionality at all. And this, David tells me, is when he starts to panic. He's thinking, maybe I have a virus on my computer. Maybe I'm gonna have to reinstall the whole operating system just to fix the mouse.

[David Sirota]

I mean, it sounds like a little thing, but, like, you need the mouse for, like, literally everything, right? Like, I'm not trying to, like, over dramatize it, but it's like my workflow.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

But just before David gets to the point of taking drastic measures with his computer, he decides to check one more thing. He hops on Twitter and he types in Logitech mouse. And that's when he discovers that this thing that's happening to him appears to be happening to tons of other people as well.

[David Sirota]

People who are like, my Logitech mouse just shit the bed. Like, I can't use my. Like, Logitech, what are you doing right now?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

David still has no idea why this is happening. And Logitech hasn't offered a word of explanation. And there are people posting DIY temporary type patches, which David tries to use, but those end up screwing with other parts of David's operating system. And he still has all this work he needs to get done. So even though he's curious about how it's possible that everyone's mouse went kaput at the same time, he has no time to dwell. He pulls out some basic old mouse from some drawer somewhere and tries to focus on finishing his stories until a couple days later, when Logitech finally comes forward to explain what happened. It turns out that there's this thing called a TLS certificate, and it allows these mice to connect to the Internet. And Logitech let this certificate expire. Since this happened around Christmas, the rumor that bubbled up is that some person who works at Logitech, who was in charge of making sure the certificate gets renewed, forgot to do that and then went on vacation. And when the certificate expired, everyone's mouse crashed. Logitech issued an apology, called it an inexcusable error, and then issued a patch for all the impacted software. But instead of settling the issue for David, a guy who has specifically chosen to purchase a hardwired mouse, the company's explanation of what happened was actually profoundly unsettling.

[David Sirota]

The thing that kind of freaked me out Is like, wait a minute. Why to use my mouse? Is my computer going onto the Internet, talking with Logitech for any reason at all? Like, what is that about? The mouse is mine. What is that doing for me?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

If I were to take a total shot in the dark, my only guess would be that Logitech communicates to your computer. Oh, hey, we've got, like, new firmware updates for your mouse to make it run better or to make it do so and so better. But, like, that shouldn't require them to have, like, persistent communication. Like, you should be able.

[David Sirota]

Right? And like, like Logitech, you can break my mouse.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Like, I didn't even do anything incredibly weird that a piece of hardware can stop working because of some problem that's taking place at Logitech's home base.

[David Sirota]

That's what I'm saying. Like, it's not like I accident chipped a key off the keyboard myself. It's like it was working and then it died. All the electronics are fine. It's like, literally, the company. I didn't know I was in a relationship with Logitech when I bought its mouse. And now I'm wondering, like, how many other of my accessories. How many other things in my house are talking to central computers that I didn't. You know, maybe, yes, when I got the device, it, like, I signed some thousand page of fine print, and now it's. And I'm not. I'm not saying that in like a. A surveillance way, although that's a whole other separate creepy thing. I'm saying in the. Like, somebody does something back at the central headquarters and something in my house or on my computer is just fried. Like, that's not a cool feeling.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

So, okay, tell me what. What you want and what would make this feel fixed for you? Like, what are your main questions and what would be satisfying for you in terms of it feeling fixed with the only thing makes you feel good. Have Logitech be like, yes, we're taking them off the Internet. You can update them at your leisure. Or is it just the knowledge?

[David Sirota]

I think I want, like, a couple things. I mean, one, I want, like, an actual explanation and not a shaming apology. But, like, hey, that was not good. Like, we're not just going to pretend that that didn't happen and we just updated. Like, I'd like an apology. I would like to know if they've changed any internal controls. The other thing I would like is just, did they. Do they learn anything from events like this, about how to make sure events like this don't happen. And maybe critically think about the downsides of having everything connected all the time. Like, is there any thought, like, okay, hey, that was bad. Maybe we should develop systems where people's accessories don't always have to talk to us, like, may. Like, are they willing to give up some control?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

You know, David had some very pointed questions for Logitech, and we had every intention of asking them, but in the end, we were unable to do that because Logitech didn't respond to any of the multiple emails we sent them. And of course, you know, that sucks for David because we know how badly he wanted an apology. But it also turned out to be a blessing in disguise, because once we started reading about the situation, one of our team members, Hyperfix producer Emma Cortland, realized that there was actually a pretty big flaw in our understanding of what happened here.

[Emma Cortland]

Hey, buddy, you recording?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

I sure am.

[Emma Cortland]

So I was listening back to your interview with David, and one of the big questions he had was like, why did Logitech build a mouse that has to be connected to the Internet? Right. It's a corded mouse. He's not trying to update anything, so why does it need to be connected?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Yeah.

[Emma Cortland]

Okay. So it turns out this Logitech mouse actually doesn't need to be connected to the Internet. The only reason that David's was connected to the Internet was like, do you remember when he was talking about all of those custom buttons he had set up?

[David Sirota]

I have a very bespoke way I set up my buttons. You know, you can customize the buttons, like, you know, make the screen go away. You know, show me the desktop. Take a screenshot.

[Emma Cortland]

So the way you program those custom buttons is through a specific app. It's called Logitech Options Plus. And that app, which, of course has to be connected to the Internet, that was the thing that had its certificate expire. So the certificate expires. The Mac OS is like, yo, this is no longer trustworthy. They shut down the app, and suddenly all of these devices that had been using the app to power their custom controls, they just start bucking out.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Oh, so there wasn't actually a problem with the mouse itself?

[Emma Cortland]

No. And apparently there were people who had this Logitech mouse but weren't using the custom controls. I assume they just wanted this mouse because they liked the ergonomic shape of it. Anyway, so those people were completely unaffected by this whole situation. Their mouses were working just fine the entire time.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Okay, okay, well, first of all, this makes much more sense than the idea that Logitech was just keeping some sneaky connection to these devices so that they could update the firmware or whatever. But, I mean, I guess it kind of feels like this isn't really the problem we thought it was. You know, like, yeah, Logitech made a tiny mistake and it messed up a ton of people's stuff, but that just kind of feels like par for the course when it comes to the Internet of things.

[Emma Cortland]

Yeah, but Alex, that's the scandal. And I think that under David's specific questions about the Logitech mouse situation, there are much bigger questions. Like, the one that stands out to me most is just like, if the physical things we own can simply stop working because of some backchannel bullshit that has nothing to do with us, then what does that say about the idea of ownership? You know, like, if you own the thing but its functionality is controlled by someone else forever, then do you really own the thing?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Damn, that's deep. All right, you've convinced me. So I guess we need to find someone who's an expert on the Internet of things, huh?

[Emma Cortland]

Yeah. And if they have some kind of policy background too, that would be amazing. Because, like, I would really like to know, like, is there anyone policing this?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

That is very fair. I will find that person.

[Emma Cortland]

Thanks, buddy. All right, talk to you later.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

So, you know, I got in touch with you with a specific question in mind, and I do want to get to that. But before I get to that, I was curious if you could tell me what drew you to this particular space in the first place.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

Sure. I'm a great big nerd.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

This is Stacey Higginbotham. She works for the advocacy division of Consumer Reports, which is like a non profit version of Wirecutter. For 90 years, Consumer Reports has been running safety tests and investigations on consumer products and publishing their reviews, reporting and recommendations in a biological monthly magazine. And independent of their reviews and the magazine, they also work directly with industries and legislators to try and make products just a little better and a little safer. And over the years, their testing, their investigations, and their legislative advocacy have played a role in exposing the dangers of cigarettes and the creation of seat belt laws. And for the past decade or so, a lot of their energy has been focused on the issue of connected technology, which is one of the things that Stacy specializes in.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

I started buying these products, putting them in my home, testing them, talking to the companies. My family hated me for a while because our house was just a nightmare. I once programmed like this thing because I'm silly. I programmed like walk on music for when I entered the home. My phone would signal my house that I was home, and, like, my Sonos system would play my theme music. Right.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

I find that very charming. If your family doesn't love that, then, you know, they just need a better sense of humor, I think.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

Well, what happened is at 2 in the morning, when I was coming home from the airport after a delayed flight.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Yeah, okay, never mind. I'm on their side now.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

The charm loses its appeal very quickly.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

So what's the coolest device you ever tested?

[Stacey Higginbotham]

My favorite of all devices that I've ever tested was a connected oven that actually had image recognition. It had, like, an Nvidia gaming chip inside of it and a camera. And whenever you would put food in that oven, it would recognize it. It would say, hey, is this chicken? And you would say, yes. And it would cook it automatically, perfectly for you.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Oh, my God.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

And it worked, and it worked, and it worked beautifully. For I still have it. They don't sell it anymore. But it was amazing. My child, who at the time was like, 10 years old, could cook, like, raw salmon and asparagus together, and it would be amazing.

[Alex Goldman]

Right?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

That's wild.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

So there was so much potential. Like, that's the kind of thing that I thought the in, like, the idea that you would have sensors on your cars that could report back, like potholes in the street to a city. Those are the kind of things that we thought the Internet of things would be good for. Right. I got so excited about it.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

But from where Stacy's sitting, it seems like a lot of that excitement has been replaced by doubt. And it's not all unfounded. In the decade and a half since the Internet of things began to roll out wide, Stacy and her colleagues have watched countless promising products hit the marketplace before faltering and fizzling for reasons that had nothing to do with their users. And this isn't just an issue of computer accessories like David's that suddenly went offline for a couple days. This is E Reader stereo systems, exercise equip equipment, and kitchen appliances that suddenly become bricked, seemingly for no reason at all. But there actually is a reason. In fact, there are two, and the first has to do with the companies that created these devices and the issue of how much it costs to keep them running.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

It costs a lot of money to do this, and I don't think everybody was aware of that to begin with. So when you connect something to the Internet, you are creating an ongoing financial obligation to your cloud provider, and you're creating an ongoing obligation to. To update the Software, so it matches with, you know, the latest operating systems on your phone and to fund vulnerability research. Right. And to update and patch mistakes. So all of these products, for every product that you sell or you sold into the world, you had to budget, you know, two to three dollars a year to keep it working. And that was the weak link that everybody kind of ignored through the venture funding era, where we were like, oh my gosh, Google bought Nest for $3.1 billion. It may have been 3.2. Let's all invest in this and go crazy. And they did. And they didn't think about that part of it.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

One of the popular solutions to this particular problem has been the introduction of subscription services where you pay some kind of monthly fee for the privilege of getting to use stuff you thought you already owned. Thus turning what seemed like a one time purchase into a lifelong relationship. The second big reason why connected technology is falling short of expectations has to do with the invisible security systems underlying the Internet.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

All of these mechanisms underlying the Internet that the normal people don't see, and honestly, they shouldn't have to see. Like, this is the stuff that you build in. Just like, you know, your building codes build in like variances and things like that. So buildings don't fall down, right? So this is the stuff consumers shouldn't know about. But when it doesn't work, you have the digital equivalent of like a building coming down. It's not quite that harsh, but, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's a flood or something like that instead. And then suddenly you see this and you're like, wait, what did that? How did that happen?

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

This is essentially what happened with David's mouse. Because the thing that failed in this situation, the certificate validating Logitech software as safe to operate on a Mac OS, is something that exists all over the Internet. And they do experience lapses from time to time, often because someone left a company or someone went on a vacation and forgot to renew it. But in the past, these lapses didn't feel like the kind of existential confrontation that David experienced when his mouse stopped working. Because while it may feel inconvenient when a website goes down or even the whole Internet goes down, the fact remains that you don't own the Internet. And you never thought you did. It's only now that the Internet has been embedded in everyday objects that we've been forced to face the reality that in a connected world where the power of our belongings belongs to someone else, we don't really own shit.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

And that's one of the things I work on actually at cr, if I can give a shameless plug is we are pushing for legislation that requires companies like Amazon or like Logitech to tell you when you buy these products, how long they plan to support them at a minimum. So they can always extend it. But at a minimum, I kind of, when I buy one of these things, I want to. I want the company to be like, yeah, for at least seven more years, you are going to be able to use this as intended, connected to the Internet. After that, we'll see. We'll give you updates, you know, like, we'll let you know what we think. And I think that would help a lot of users understand that these things aren't around forever, even if they still physically work. And that's a really hard concept for people.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Right, right.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

You used to just buy stuff and it would work until, like, it physically broke. And when it physically broke, you're like, like, I dunked it in water. There's a huge crack on the screen. I get it. But now it's like, it seems functional and now it doesn't work.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

So, I mean, it sounds like what you're trying to do is figure out ways to make sure that the user continues to have some kind of say in control over the stuff they own.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

We want manufacturers to be upfront with users about what they're really buying. Like, you're not necessarily buying the physical device, you're buying access to certain parts of the physical device that the manufacturer can be like, eh, I don't want to do that anymore and take it away.

[Alex Goldman]

Right.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

That's a very different proposition. And we want people to be clear about that up front. And then we also want it so when the manufacturer is like, we don't want to do this anymore, that there's still ways for the user to actually use it as they wanted to use it. So if you've got an E bike, right. This happened. Actually, this is a real use case. There was an E bike and the company behind it went bankrupt. And then suddenly the people who had the E bike could not turn on their E bikes anymore because it required a connection to the server. And this is like a $5,000 piece of equipment. And they were like, rightly upset.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

But that's part of the reason why, like, I am loath to buy technology from young startups because who knows whether this company is going to be successful if I buy it and then in 18 months it no longer works. I would get so frustrated.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

Yeah, but there are, I mean, Spotify pulled support for their car thing device after roughly 20 months, and that was a reasonably large company at the time.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

That's true.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

We saw Belkin pull wemo stuff. Google has deprecated their first and second generation Nest thermostats. We got Amazon killing the Kindle. And granted those are less awful because these devices have been in the market for a long time, but you kind of hit the nail on the head. Like people are rightly suspicious because they can't count on these things to work the way they want them to for as long as they feel like they should.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

So you mentioned policy work earlier. I'm curious if you can tell me about some of the advocacy stuff that you're currently working on.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

Yeah, what a good question. I'm not prepared to answer that at all.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

After the break, Stacey tells us if there's anything to be done about this. This episode of Hyperfixed is brought to you by Strawberry Me. Let me ask you something. Are you where you want to be in your career? Or are you waking up every day knowing that you're capable of more but not sure how to get there? I mean, I am personally not retired and sipping Mai Tais by a placid lake. So no, I'm not where I want to be in my career. But success doesn't just happen. And the most successful people in the world don't figure it out alone. They have mentors, coaches, and people guiding them every step of the way. And that's where Strawberry Me career coaching comes in. When I was learning how to make radio, being able to talk to the people who were there before I ever showed up taught me almost everything I know about yelling into a microphone. And that's exactly what Strawberry Me provides. 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This episode of Hyperfixed is brought to you by Quints. Look, everyone's got to wear clothes, otherwise they'd be arrested. Think about it. Also, I stole that line directly from a VHS video for kids starring Mr. T. Look it up. It's amazing. It's called Be Somebody or Be Somebody's Fool. Anyhow, having to wear clothes so you don't get arrested is the reason why you should get into some quints. Now. For the millionth time, I don't mean that dang hard aromatic fruit that looks like a lumpy fuzzy pear or a golden apple. I am talking about the clothing store. So honestly, get yourself together. Quince's 100% European linen pants and shirts are breathable, easy to throw on, and the summer upgrade your rotation needs starting at just $34. Their tees are soft enough to live in all day and the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when the summer nights cool down. Everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for exceptional quality, not brand markup. I got the 100% European linen relaxed long sleeve shirt. And I know what you're saying. A long sleeve shirt in summertime. Alex, you rascal. But seriously, these darn shirts are lightweight and breathable for those warm summer days. Make your summer wardrobe feel easier. Go to quint.com hyperfixed for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C e.com hyperfixed for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com hyperfixed wear some clothes so you don't get arrested. Welcome back to the show. So before the break, we heard the harrowing story of the day the mice died. On January 6th of this year, an administrative oversight at Logitech HQ led to the crash of countless devices all across the globe. And for journalist David Sirota, the fact that some unseen action of some unknown person could crash a thing he thought he owned raised some pretty thorny philosophical questions. So we reached out to a woman from Consumer Reports named Stacey Higginbotham to talk about all the ways that connected technology has changed the relationship between us, our stuff, and the companies that make it. And Stacy was like, this is all I do all day. For the last 15 years, Stacy and her colleagues have been watching the ways that companies who manufacture connected devices have fallen short of the obligations they should reasonably keep with their customers. And now she's trying to do something about it, in part because the agency that's supposed to do something about it isn't really.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

We actually sent a letter to the FTC about a year and a half ago saying, hey, you should issue really clear guidelines for companies that make this sort of stuff to be like, these are the rules you have to follow.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Okay. So, yeah, tell me about some of the changes you're pushing for in your work with Consumer Reports.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

So some of the things that we would like to see clarity on is, like, when you sell a connected device, you should make sure it, we call it, degrades gracefully. So when you stop supporting it, a customer should still be able to use it for its core function.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

So if it's an oven, you should still be able to turn it on and heat it up and track its temperature, even if you can no longer use Alexa to do that for you.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

We also think it's important for companies who make these connected devices to establish, as part of, like, their accounting procedures, how much it costs to keep it going every year. Right. And then they should escrow that in case they get in financial trouble. So if you're buying something from a startup, maybe as part of being a startup that sells a connected device, you escrow, you know, X amount of dollars to keep those devices functioning for two to three years in case you go out of business.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Oh, that is so smart. Then there's this whole Other issue, where companies go out of business or abandon their products and then lock down the proprietary features under the guise of copyright protection. Copyright law is always a beast. But Stacy and her colleagues are pushing for clarity on what's fair when it comes to the question of ownership in a connected world.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

And then we've got our connected Consumer Product End of Life Disclosure Act. I should have come up with a better acronym, but basically, this is what I was telling you about, where companies need to tell consumers how long they plan to support this stuff when the customer buys it. So at the point of sale, and then when they stop supporting it, they actually have to tell consumers via some sort of proactive notification. So those are some of the things that we're looking at.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Before we said goodbye, Stacy stressed that not every company is shady about this information and that there are plenty of companies that publish information about how long they plan to support their connected devices. But for those of them that don't, you should still be asking.

[Stacey Higginbotham]

I tell people to like to ask these questions, like, if you're spending $6,000 on the new Peloton treadmill, you have every right to ask, like, the peloton person, hey, how long do you think you're going to support this? I mean, I would want to know that before spending $6,000 on a treadmill.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Stacey, this has been such a pleasure. What a fun conversation. I really appreciate it. I went back to David to tell him what we learned about how a company right now can sell you something and then on a whim, decide they no longer support it and disable it. And his reaction was about the same as ours. These companies need to be beholden to someone about this stuff. Because it turns out that while we were reporting this, David was working on his computer one day, and you'll never believe what happened.

[David Sirota]

They pushed an update. Logitech pushed an update to the app. The way I found out that the update had been pushed was I was doing an interview, a video interview with a political leader. And I was trying to scroll in through my notes, and the scrolling stopped working. And I was like, what is happening here? Like, I can't. Like, I don't. First I was like, maybe my browser's wrong. And then I was like, oh, my God, Logitech, Right? Like, after the. After the interview's over, I go to the app, and there's, like, this red flashing thing. Like, it was either you have to update the software or. But it was, like, so rude. Like, you're just shutting it down, like, mid. But I hadn't restarted the computer. It's just, it's just like there was.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

No, no, that's crazy. And like, like, what if you were in the middle? What if you were a lawyer and you have a deposition? Like, this could actually have serious ramifications, right?

[David Sirota]

Like, where's the polite, like, hey, you need to restart your computer because we have an update. It was just like, no, we're just going to stop working now.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

That's crazy.

[David Sirota]

Yeah, it's like rude. It's like digitally rude. The next time I have any kind of glitching on my computer at all, the very first app I'm going to check is Logi Options plus, like literally, like my brain, it's now, I've now built a neural pathway in my brain if anything goes wrong on the computer. For first check the Logitech app, because that may be where it's coming from.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

That's really funny. And like, I can't even tell you that that's necessarily the right, the right impulse, but like, I. Who could blame you, right?

[David Sirota]

Exactly. And it confirms everything my dad taught me at the very beginning of when I had a computer. You know, my dad said to me, you know, third party accessories, third party devices. Anything third party brought into the, into the technology ecosystem is a risk. Dad, you were totally right.

[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Hyperfixed is produced by Emma Cortland, Amor Yates and Kat Shuknak. Our engineer is Tony Williams and the music is by the mysterious Brake, Master Cylinder and myself. Don't forget that we're doing a lot show tickets.hyperfixpod.com it is in September. It is in New York. It will be fun. If you don't come, I will be sad. Hyperfixed is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent, creator owned, listener supported podcasts. Discover audio with vision at Radiotopia fm. Thanks so much for listening, Sam.

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[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

Oh no.

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[Host (likely Alex Goldman or a co-host)]

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[Stacey Higginbotham]

from PRX.