Folklore (Kyle's Version)

Summary

Hyperfixed Podcast Episode Summary: "Folklore (Kyle's Version)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Hyperfixed
• Host/Author: Alex Goldman, produced by Hyperfixed & Radiotopia
• Episode: Folklore (Kyle's Version)
• Release Date: January 2, 2025
• Description: Alex Goldman delves into listeners' everyday annoyances and challenges, unraveling the mechanisms behind them while collaborating with guests to find solutions or at least provide satisfactory explanations.

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1. Introduction to Kyle's Dilemma

The episode centers around Kyle, an Ohio-based analytics professional who dedicates his free time to renovating old houses. Drawing from a lineage of skilled craftsmen—his paternal grandfather was an engineer, and his maternal grandfather a craftsman—Kyle inherited robust building and fixing skills. However, he grapples with an inherited piece of advice that questions the very foundation of his measurement practices.

Notable Quote:

• Kyle [01:36]: "They both told me to always just forget the first inch."

2. The "Forget the First Inch" Conundrum

Kyle explains that his parents advised him to disregard the initial inch of a measuring tape for accurate measurements. This practice involves not starting measurements at the zero mark—where the metal hook resides—but rather at the one-inch mark. This method, passed down through generations, ensures that the hook's movement doesn't introduce measurement discrepancies.

Detailed Discussion:

• Alex Goldman [02:11]: Skeptical of the notion that the first inch is unreliable, Alex questions the rationale behind manufacturers including it on tapes if it were indeed flawed. This skepticism paves the way for a deeper investigation into the validity of this folk wisdom.

Kyle's Exploration:

• Kyle [02:17]: Shares experiences with others who have varying beliefs about the first inch, highlighting the mixed reception of this advice.
• Kyle [03:14]: Expresses doubt after noticing inconsistencies in his measurements, leading him to question whether the issue lies with the measuring tapes themselves or the advice he's been following.

3. Initial Attempts to Validate the Concern

Alex attempts to replicate Kyle's issue by measuring an object using the zero and one-inch marks on a tape, only to find a slight but noticeable discrepancy. This experiment heightens Alex's confusion and frustration, making him question the reliability of measuring tapes and the wisdom of the passed-down advice.

Notable Quote:

• Alex Goldman [05:25]: "Kyle was right. Measuring from the one inch mark was different. Not by a lot, but it was enough to see with my naked eye."

4. Consulting the Mythbuster: Adam Savage

To seek clarity, Alex reaches out to Adam Savage, a renowned YouTuber and former co-host of MythBusters. Adam's extensive experience with various measuring tools makes him the ideal expert to address Kyle's concerns.

Introduction to Adam Savage:

• Adam Savage [10:01]: Greets the listeners, establishing his credibility in the realm of measurements and tool usage.

Key Insights from Adam:

• Understanding the Hook Mechanism [13:30]: Adam explains the mechanical reason behind Kyle's inherited advice. The metal hook at the tape's end can move slightly, depending on what it's hooked onto. To account for this variability, starting measurements at the one-inch mark ensures consistency, especially when measuring from different reference points like the face or the inside of an object.

  Notable Quote:

  • Adam Savage [14:03]: "If you're measuring to its face or whether you're measuring to its inside... you have to subtract the thickness of the tab you've just used."

• Quality and Maintenance of Measuring Tapes [16:38]: Adam emphasizes the importance of maintaining one's own tape measure to ensure accuracy. He warns against trusting others' tapes due to potential wear and tear, which can alter the hook's functionality.

  Notable Quote:

  • Adam Savage [16:37]: "You don't trust anybody else's tape measure because that tab sticks out of the tape. It's what you grab to pull the tape out."

• Precision Beyond Tape Measures [17:23]: Delving deeper, Adam discusses the limitations of standard measuring tapes and introduces more precise tools like micrometers and gauge blocks. He highlights that even with the best tools, human intuition and craftsmanship play a crucial role in achieving exact measurements.

  Notable Quote:

  • Adam Savage [27:04]: "All of the interesting engineering in the world to me, happens in that last little bit where the physical intuition takes us past what the measurement can describe."

• Philosophical Reflection on Measurement [22:24]: Adam reflects on the inherent limitations of measurement tools and the human element in bridging the gap between objective data and practical application.

  Notable Quote:

  • Adam Savage [26:29]: "The whole history of science is nothing but the repeated lesson that the closer you look at anything, the more they disappear."

5. The Intersection of Measurement and Craftsmanship

The discussion transitions into the philosophical territory of how measurements, no matter how precise, are always subject to real-world variables like temperature and human perception. Adam articulates that true craftsmanship transcends mere numbers, relying on the craftsman's experience and intuition to achieve perfection.

Notable Insight:

• Adam Savage [27:44]: Explains that high-level craftsmen often rely on "institutional knowledge" and physical intuition, which supplements the limitations of any measuring tool.

6. Follow-Up with Kyle's Testing

Post the enlightening conversation with Adam, Alex reconnects with Kyle to share Adam's insights. Kyle takes actionable steps by acquiring new measuring tapes, including Adam's recommended Lufkin Niteye, and conducts a series of tests to verify the effectiveness of starting measurements at the one-inch mark.

Kyle's Voice Memo:

• Kyle [31:33]: Details his unboxing and testing of six different measuring tapes. He compares their accuracy against a precise ruler, evaluating each tape's reliability when starting from the hook versus the one-inch mark.

Findings:

• Consistency in New Tapes: Kyle discovers that well-maintained, high-quality measuring tapes like the Dewalt, Cobalt, and Lufkin Niteye provide accurate measurements even when starting from the hook.
• Variable Accuracy in Used Tapes: Older or cheaper tapes, such as the Koh-i-Noor Self Lock, show discrepancies, reinforcing Adam's advice on trusting only well-maintained tools.

Notable Quote:

• Kyle [35:03]: "New tape measures, keep them nice. Feels like the move."

7. Conclusion and Takeaways

The episode wraps up with Alex summarizing the journey from skepticism to understanding. The key takeaway emphasizes the importance of tool maintenance and trusting reliable measuring devices. Additionally, it underscores the blend of precise tools and human intuition in achieving accuracy in craftsmanship.

Final Insights:

• Adam Savage's Wisdom: Maintaining one's tools ensures measurement reliability.
• Human Element: Regardless of tool precision, human intuition remains indispensable in bridging the gap between data and practical application.

8. Credits and Acknowledgments

The episode concludes with acknowledgments to the production team, including Emma Cortland and Amor Yates for production and editing, Tony Williams for engineering, and Breakmaster Cylinder for music. Listeners are encouraged to join the community, submit problems, and support the show through membership.

Notable Mention:

• Adam Savage [36:35]: Reiterates his affiliation with Radiotopia from PRX.

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Key Takeaways:

• Start Measuring at One Inch: To account for the inherent movement of the tape measure's hook, ensuring more accurate measurements.
• Tool Maintenance Matters: Well-maintained measuring tapes provide consistent results, while worn or cheap ones can introduce errors.
• Human Intuition is Crucial: Beyond precise measurements, the craftsman's experience and intuition play a vital role in achieving perfection.

Final Thought: The episode beautifully intertwines practical advice with philosophical musings on measurement, precision, and the human touch in craftsmanship, offering listeners both actionable tips and deeper reflections on the nature of accuracy.

Transcript

[Alex Goldman]

Hi, my name's Alex Goldman. This is hyperfixed on this show. Listeners write in with their problems, big and small, and I solve them. Or at least I try. And if I don't, I at least give a good reason why I can't. We chase a lot of questions that never actually end up making it to air. Sometimes it's because we just aren't able to answer them. Other times it's because we are able to answer them, but we do it way too quickly. This week's problem was one of those. But the answer we got and the special guest we got it from were so good that we figured stories like this need a chance to shine, too. So here it is this week.

[Adam Savage]

Folklore.

[Alex Goldman]

Kyle's version.

[Kyle]

My father's father was an engineer. He taught him this, so he passed that along to me.

[Alex Goldman]

This is Kyle. He lives in Ohio and he has a job in analytics. But he spends most of his free time renovating old houses using skills that have passed from one generation of his family to the next.

[Kyle]

My mother's father was a craftsman. You know, just a handy guy. He taught it to her. She's a seamstress by trade.

[Alex Goldman]

Kyle's father learned from his father, his mother learned from her father. And Kyle learned from helping his parents with their renovation projects when he was a kid. And for the most part, what he learned from them was solid the foundations of building and fixing stuff, which I could not be more jealous of as a person who doesn't know how to do anything except make a podcast. But there's one piece of advice Kyle is not so sure about, and it's this.

[Kyle]

They both told me to always just forget the first inch.

[Alex Goldman]

Forget the first inch, meaning that when Kyle's using measuring tape to measure something, whether it's a piece of wood or a piece of fabric, he should not start with zero. Or the spot where the little metal hook is at the end of the measuring tape. According to Kyle's family, when you're lining up your tape measure, if you want an accurate measurement, you need to start with the 1 inch mark.

[Kyle]

And they say it with this conviction that isn't like, you know, maybe this is like, whatever. Like, they're like, no, this is just like a law of nature. Like, it's gravity. Like, the first inch is. You have no business using it.

[Alex Goldman]

Kyle's family believes that the first inch of the tape measure is entirely unreliable. And they're not alone.

[Kyle]

So I've asked a couple people as we've been going along, and, yeah, most of them have heard this, Some of them are just like, yeah, I've heard that. I don't believe in it. My mother in law was like, yeah, I absolutely know what you're talking about. You always get rid of the first inch. Like it was like a Bible reading.

[Alex Goldman]

Kyle's been using this rule of thumb for as long as he's been building things. But measuring from the one is slow and cumbersome. He has to clamp his measuring tape to the side of his table instead of the object he's measuring and line up each piece of wood perfectly. And lately he's started to reconsider this idea that there's something wrong with the first inch of literally every measuring tape. If that were the case, why would they put fucking numbers there? Why would they make everyone's lives? Why would the manufacturers of measuring tape. And I assume there's probably not a ton. Like I imagine that measuring tape, a.

[Kyle]

Big measuring tape, is up to something.

[Alex Goldman]

It's my thought, why would the measuring tape industry conspire to give people wrong measurements?

[Kyle]

After I submitted it, I start like, you know, you see that self doubt thing where I'm like, maybe this isn't a problem and I just made it up and it's just affecting me. I'm checking my measuring tapes, moving things around. The little line is there on some of them it's not. And I'm like, okay, sure, maybe I'm not supposed to measure that small on a measuring tape, but I want to. I'm an analytical guy. Like, I want to use it.

[Alex Goldman]

Honestly, I was skeptical that Kyle's problem was even a problem. But we needed a story with an easier lift, something we could land in a matter of days while we pursue stories that take weeks or months. And with my newfound measurement understanding from Eva Needs to Measure, which is a few episodes back, I figured we could get an answer quick. But after 10 minutes of talking to Kyle, I assumed this was a worst case scenario, which is that, you know, Kyle was just wrong. So in my infinite hubris, I, Alex Goldman, the podcast host who's never even installed a towel bar without putting it in crooked, decided to go find a measuring tape to show the guy who builds cabinets and renovates houses that he was over complicating a simple task. I should have done this before I sat down. Can you guys give me 30 seconds to go grab some measuring tape?

[Kyle]

Yeah, grab one. Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

I'll be right back. So I'm just going to. I just want to, like, measure some. I just, like, want to test this out. Yeah, I'M just measuring a canceled check. That isn't my task. This canceled check is exactly from the tab 8. And what are the interstitial marks between?

[Kyle]

It depends on if it goes to sixteenths or not.

[Alex Goldman]

Oh, God. This looks like it's eight, eight and a half inches. So it's like eight and a half minus one. Like minus one of these little things. So it would be. Yeah, eight and seven, 16. Which is a weird number for it to be. Now I'm measuring it at 11 inch, you guys. Kyle was right. Measuring from the 1 inch mark was different. Not by a lot, but it was enough to see with my naked eye. It looks like it's about 1:16. Too short.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Yeah.

[Kyle]

And that movement that travel on that metal thing is supposed to be tuned for that. But I don't think it. I don't think anyone's doing it right. I don't think that they're making them right.

[Alex Goldman]

I feel like I am waking up from a lie that has been told to me my entire life. Why would they do that? Is it. Is it a. I'm wondering, like, is it a manufacturing error? Is it just laziness on their part? Because this feels like. Like being told the moon landing is fake. It's like something that feels as certain, like that I am certain of in my heart, that now feels like I. I no longer know what. Who to trust.

[Kyle]

I mean, this is how we measure the world, right? We're off by a 16th and the whole world always.

[Alex Goldman]

God, dude. I didn't realize this was all going to be measurement problems that I was going to be dealing with for the rest of my life.

[Kyle]

Hyper measurement.

[Alex Goldman]

I'm baffled right now. This is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. When you sent me, when you. When I read this thing, I was like, that can't be right. He must be mistaken. I mean, how. How do you. You are a person who measures all the time. How do you feel about when you. When you are measuring something?

[Kyle]

I feel terrible because what I think of when I estimate, like, what they teach you in like, I don't know, even chemistry in like college or high school or whatever is. It's like you're supposed to assume, like if it's just a little bit under the line, you assume it's just a little bit less because you'll be closer. And I'm always wrong by the thickness of a saw blade. I'm always wrong or off. And I don't really know which way to estimate. It just feels like the whole tool doesn't work. If it doesn't work in that little way.

[Alex Goldman]

Follow up question. How deeply does the thickness of a saw blade matter when you are doing this kind of thing?

[Unnamed Speaker]

A lot.

[Kyle]

Like when I was doing this, I was measuring like, what was it, 16 two by fours that I had to cut to the same because they were going to go up on a shelf and if any of them overhung, then the caps and the shelves wouldn't like sit properly. So I had to make sure. And that's when I was like, man, I wish that first inch was the same. And I was like, wait, that's a dumb question. I've got to send this in.

[Alex Goldman]

It just seems nuts that this is what that we've been living with this indignity for so long.

[Kyle]

And I'm curious if you ask more people, like, is this a folk tale? Like, I. I feel like I've just heard it my whole life. Like, I don't know, but it feels like it's right. Because when I measure things, I find what you just found.

[Alex Goldman]

So yeah, I'm not going to trust this anymore either. This is so like, I keep just repeating the same thing over and over again because, like, I don't know what else to ask because this is so weird. I'm kind of speechless.

[Kyle]

And when you ask people, they minimize the problem. But if I gave you a scale that added a little bit of weight every time, you'd never use that scale. Everything else it holds, it is.

[Alex Goldman]

I do feel like, I don't know, I've always, I've always thought of myself as kind of not like handy, not, not by any stretch of the imagination, but like a little bit more rough and tumble than my feet. Radio compatriots. But this one's making me feel like, oh, I'm just out of my depth. I don't know what I'm talking about. I think I'm a badass. Like, I think I understand the world outside of just like books and writing and bleh. But no, I have no fucking clue. How. How is this possible? I'm furious right now. This is crazy.

[Unnamed Speaker]

You've been lied to.

[Alex Goldman]

All I've learned so far from the episodes that we have produced and are in the midst of producing is that like I can't trust anything or anyone. Everything is just, everything I've ever been told is just a lie.

[Kyle]

It's going to be an uplifting series. Huh.

[Alex Goldman]

So, okay, so this is a crazily intractable problem. What would feel like solved for you?

[Kyle]

Like, if I kind of understood that there was a reason for this, and it's not. I'm really hoping what you don't find is that manufacturing got worse and there's no way to control it at the rate that they put them out. And so we're just going to have to live with this forever. I'd also love to see is there, like, a super expensive measuring tape out there that's just accurate? Like, is there. Is there, like, a German company that's manufacturing the only accurate known measuring tape? Like, I would love to know if there's one that I can just go grab, because if you just, you know, Google accurate measuring tape, every measuring tape comes up, and I'd love to know without buying every measuring tape on Amazon, that one of them works.

[Alex Goldman]

Kyle wants to know once and for all if it's even necessary to subtract the first inch of the measuring tape. If this is a trick of the trade that all handymen need to do to account for discrepancies inherent in measuring tape design, or if it's just building folklore that's been passed along for so many generations that it's become fact. Kyle needs someone to bust this myth. So we got a mythbuster.

[Adam Savage]

Good morning. Good morning.

[Alex Goldman]

Good morning, Adam.

[Adam Savage]

Can you see me?

[Alex Goldman]

Yes, we can.

[Adam Savage]

Excellent. Excellent. I can hear you guys loud and clear.

[Alex Goldman]

This is Adam Savage. He's a YouTuber and the former co host of Mythbusters. And he spent most of his life, like Kyle, building things, including miniature models for the Star wars prequels, the Mummy, the Matrix movies. And when Hyperfix producer Amor Yates first started researching this story, she stumbled on this YouTube video of Adam gushing over his favorite measuring tapes. So if there was anyone who could help us discern whether this measuring tape hack was fact or fiction, we figured it was Adam. How often are you using a measuring tape?

[Adam Savage]

Every day, Multiple times a day. I have no lie. Dozens of measuring devices, including measuring tapes that I use all the time, and hundreds of measuring tapes in my life, and I'm just in a constant state of measuring, measuring things.

[Alex Goldman]

Are all measuring tapes created equal, or are there. There are some that are better than others. And if so, what makes one measuring tape better than another?

[Adam Savage]

That's a wonderful question. The best measuring tape is the one that you're the most comfortable with. Full stop. Actually, while we're on the phone here, I'm just gonna grab a couple of measuring tapes.

[Alex Goldman]

Oh, please. This will be great. So Adam ducks out of the frame, and for a second, I can see his expansive workstation it's like a carpenter's dream. Floor to ceiling devices, every kind of tool, all in this beautifully ordered chaos, all just within arm's reach.

[Adam Savage]

Okay, so, like, this is a basic hardware store 30 foot tape measure. This has been the bread and butter of my tape measuring forever. It's got a big fat tape. This tape is great because it's so stiff, you can run it like 10ft out and measure something that far away without having to move. This was like, I've had this on my belt, you know, on and off for 35 years. A couple of years ago, a friend of mine reached out and was like, hey, man. And he introduced me to this new tape measure with the dark tape. And I love the feel of this. It supplanted my 30 footer much of the time. These tape measures, you could build buildings with these. You know, their accuracy is plenty. For building buildings, where they fall down is measuring very tiny increments. And for that, the thing that I use even more than a tape measure is a pair of micrometers. This is a cal. Otherwise it's called a caliper. And this is a dial caliper, which uses a little rack and opinion and a clock dial to measure down to the thousandth of an inch. And I have. I actually have some measuring instruments that are even finer than this that'll go to about one tenth of this to approximately a micron.

[Alex Goldman]

In case this isn't already abundantly clear. For Adam, measurement is life. So when I told him about why we reached out, he practically leapt out of his seat.

[Adam Savage]

Oh, this is so great. I'm so excited to talk about this.

[Alex Goldman]

Oh, my. I knew that we had the right person. When Amor was like. When Amor was like, I want to talk to Adam Savage about this. I was like, I could not have thought of a better person to speak to.

[Adam Savage]

Um, shall I begin?

[Alex Goldman]

Please.

[Adam Savage]

Okay. First of all, I will say, for any given carpenter, if it's someone else's measuring tape, absolutely, you measure from the one.

[Alex Goldman]

Interesting.

[Adam Savage]

Now, here's why we're talking specifically about your basic hardware store type of tape measure, which has a sprung steel curved tape that is auto self winds, and it's got a. A little L tab out at the front connected by two or three or sometimes four rivets out at the end of the tape and creates a. A little hook by which you can grab the edge of something that you're measuring. If you're measuring the top of a dresser, this little L will hang over the edge and give you a reference Point. And your friend is right. That little tab out at the end of the tape, it moves and it moves just a little bit. And the reason it moves is actually a very good reason. Mechanically, it's. How do I say this? I'm trying to describe this because people are listening, they're not watching to what I'm saying. It moves. So if I measure the. If I measure. Yeah, here we go. Let's say I have a dresser and I want to measure the width of the top of that dresser. I hook my little tab over the left side, I pull it all the way, and then at the right side, I get directly above the edge of the dresser and I look down and I see that measurement. Now let's say I want to measure the distance. So let's say that, that, that the dresser is 29 inches wide. Now let's say I want to measure the distance from that edge of the dresser to the wall that it's adjacent to. And so I extend my tape measure to bump into the wall. Well, now since I've hooked on the inside of the bracket and gotten one measurement, if I push against the wall, then I have to accommodate for the width of this little bracket out at the end of the tape measure because I've measured from the inside of the bracket and gotten my measurement of the dresser. If I really want an accurate measurement to the wall, I have to subtract the thickness of the tab I've just used the inside of, because now I'm going to be measuring to its outside. And so the tab moves to give you an accurate inch measurement, whether you're measuring to its face or whether you're measuring to its inside.

[Alex Goldman]

That is such subtle and fantastic design.

[Adam Savage]

Oh my God, it is magnificent. And here's the reason you don't trust anybody else's tape measure is because that tab sticks out of the tape. It's what you grab to pull the tape out. And as such, it's quite vulnerable to dropping and bending. And when it drops, it bends and gives you an inaccurate measurement. That measurement is still accurate enough that you could probably build a building with it and it wouldn't be a problem. But for anything like furniture based or more precise than a house, you're going to want to know what that accommodation is. Ergo, you don't trust anyone else's tape measure from the tab, only yours.

[Alex Goldman]

Oh my God. I feel like I've just taken psychedelics or something. Like I've expanded my mind in a way that I could not possibly have conceived of when I Started this interview.

[Adam Savage]

I want you to know that when my assistant was like, they want to talk to you about the tab of a tape measure. And I was like, absolutely. We are doing this.

[Alex Goldman]

As expected, Adam easily answered Kyle's first question. You can rely on the metal hook. But we still wanted to know why Kyle was finding discrepancies across his different measuring tapes. So he asked Adam, is there anything about measuring tapes that you think is inherently broken or could be improved? Or have they always just sort of fulfilled the role that you. You. You wanted them to?

[Adam Savage]

I would say there is a little bit of planned obsolescence in tape measures. I have worn out many in my life. But besides that, in terms of being able to see. No, look, every measuring device has its limitations. I do remember learning carpentry to work in theater, and I remember finally getting good enough to realize that I wasn't measuring to a line. I was measuring to a side of the line.

[Alex Goldman]

What do you mean?

[Adam Savage]

Well, so if I have a big piece of paper with two lines like this, you can agree that actually, from a distance, those two lines could be off by a little bit, and it would still, from a distance, look like they're right on each other. And so when you take a tape measure and you run up one of the black lines to the edge, are you running it to the inside of that black line, to the middle of that black line, to the outside of that black line? While that is a very small increment, And I can tell you these lines are not more than. Hold on, I'll measure them. Right now, they're about 25,000ths of an inch wide. Within carpentry, there are absolutely operations in which you need to be more precise than 25,000ths. And therein you are actually choosing what part of the little black line on the tape measure you are going to use as your reference point.

[Alex Goldman]

If you don't understand a word of what Adam just said, don't worry, because I didn't either, and I told him so. God, I can't. Okay, you're like, you're on another level. That's way too sophisticated for me.

[Adam Savage]

Well, no. So I. I want to describe, though, that this is a physical process, the process of learning that where I would take two. Two pieces of something I wanted to go together, and I had measured roughly, and they wouldn't go together, and they didn't go together until I looked at the line and got so close and realized, okay, I'm going to go to the inside of this line. So it's not like an intellectual understanding. It's a, it's a physical understanding that these two things would not become one, they would not join until I had attention on that finer increment.

[Alex Goldman]

Fascinating. So what, like, okay, you've got this very exact. You've got this micron. Can you say the name of it again? I've already forgotten.

[Adam Savage]

Oh, yeah, calipers. Yeah.

[Alex Goldman]

Can you, can you measure the width of the, of the tab itself?

[Adam Savage]

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm doing it right now. And the tab on this basic Stanley here. Yep. Which moves is about 50,000ths of an inch thick. For reference, that's about 12 sheets of copy paper.

[Alex Goldman]

Okay, so let's say for the sake of argument, I am working on a, on a piece of furniture and I, I screw up by that 50,000th of an inch, what's going to happen? Like, how is this going to adversely affect my build?

[Adam Savage]

Oh, it could affect how tightly the joint you're cutting will fit together. It could affect how precisely your drawer slides actually accommodate the drawer. 50,000ths is plenty enough to cause you trouble with the drawer slide in terms of alignment side to side or up and down again. Now, I do want to point out that if you're a carpenter, you're not using this tape measure to do your dovetail measuring. You are using a scribe, you're using a knife edge, you're using a, a square. There's like a whole bunch of sub measuring tools for that kind of work. But yes, you could, you could use this absolutely to the precision of doing that. It's just, it's a little more laborious.

[Alex Goldman]

I mean, I know this is a level of naivete where, like, I should have realized this in like just sort of instinctually, but I just was sort of under the opinion that like, I had this thought in my head that like, you know, exact measurements isn't all that exact. Everything sort of shakes out fine in the end. But like there's actually just much more fine and exact measurement tools that I neither have the budget nor need for and have never even conceived of.

[Adam Savage]

Well, so. But the other thing that I want to express to you is that you're right, though, at your beginning assumption that it's still really spongy. The thing is, is that a high level craftsperson is still listening to their body when they're making these cuts. They're still using their institutional knowledge to know how to stay. They just have institutional knowledge that allows them a level of physical intuition, of precision that's way past anything we could execute.

[Alex Goldman]

Adam Says that when you reach the limitations of measuring devices, you need to shift to using a reference something called a gauge block. Gauge blocks look a little like Legos without the prongs. They come in various standard lengths and can be made of either steel or ceramic. And they come in a cute little suitcase.

[Adam Savage]

So let's just say I am making a watch part that I've got to make to deliver to another shop. And it has to be exactly. Exactly one inch wide to less than a thousandth of an inch to, like, a micron level. It has to be perfectly accurate. And this gauge block is my measuring tool, but only by comparison. So what I do is I measure the thing I've built, and then I compare that measurement to the gauge block, and the gauge block tells me truly how close I am. And the gauge block is a system that involves a bunch of, like, over 100 different blocks with which you can assemble a whole host of different measurements. So any measurement From, I think, 50,000ths up to 4,000 thousand four inches, you can create with, like, two or three of these blocks. Any measurement 1.297, you can make that your comparator, and then that's your reference standard for quality control. But the parts you're making are totally accurate.

[Alex Goldman]

You can, like, build a physical. You can, like, build a ruler out of little parts.

[Adam Savage]

Oh, yes, yes, yes. And let me just explain that these pieces of the gauge blocks are so accurate. If I was able to take this little face of this gauge block, which is 1 inch long and about a quarter inch wide, that face is flat to a degree that is hard to conceive. If it was the length of Manhattan, if it was 22 miles long, the total up and down variance would be less than an inch and a half.

[Alex Goldman]

Oh, my God. I know it seems like we've gone pretty far afield from our original question, but there's a larger point here that Adam's trying to make. So just chill for a second. Let the man speak.

[Adam Savage]

But here's the part that really blew my mind when I learned about gauge blocks. I was here in the cave showing my micron gauge and showing how it works and using gauge blocks. And I have two sets. I have a ceramic set, and I have a steel set, and I was. The ceramic set is more accurate than the steel set because ceramic is more stable, temperature wise. But I pulled out the steel block, and I thought for a second, and I held it in the palm of my hand for 12 seconds, and then I put it back under my micron measure and I could detect that my body heat for 12 seconds had made the gauge block one micron thicker.

[Alex Goldman]

That's bonkers.

[Adam Savage]

So all of the certification documentation that comes with the gauge block says this is only accurate to 68 degrees Fahrenheit or 20 degrees Celsius. And I read that and I realized, holy cow, that means that these measurements of these gauge blocks, they're not measurements, they're measurements with a caveat, a temperature. And so their measurements only to the degree pun intended, that we have all agreed upon the parameters for that measurement. Right? We've all said, okay, these gauge blocks are accurate at 68 degrees Fahrenheit and anything above or below that, they are no longer sub micron accurate, and you can't count on them. And so to me, as a person of science and technology and engineering, I have always found great faith in the sanctity and the solidity of numbers and the factualness of measurement. And when I got into gauge blocks and I realized that the measurements were only stable at a certain temperature, I realized there's no such thing as a measurement, that the whole system is only there. It only works because we've agreed upon the parameters for which it can work. And I find that really beautiful from a human standpoint.

[Alex Goldman]

Adam is saying that even with the best tools available, the best we can get from them still leaves a space between the objective measurement and what our tools are capable of capturing. And this is not a new concept even on this show. But ultimately, the reason we fell in love with the story was the thing that Adam told us next, which is essentially that the only way to close the space between the objective measurement and, and the subjective one is experience and the physical intuition of the craftsman.

[Adam Savage]

So there's a measurement on a piece of paper, and then there's the institutional knowledge. And a good machinist is always going to be the last mile after the measurement. On the page. It's so hard to explain, but it really is a like, there's only so far the measuring tool can get you. And then your. Your experience and your body, our soft, imprecise bodies have to take us that last little bit. All of the interesting engineering in the world to me, happens in that last little bit where the physical intuition takes us past what the measurement can describe.

[Alex Goldman]

I guess that all creative endeavor has some aspect of that. Like, I can listen to audio and be like, oh, there's a missing breath here, or this sounds unnatural, because I know the pattern of speech so well, because I spend hours in front of an audio editing so Dashboard making stories, you know, like, of course.

[Adam Savage]

And your physical intuition is. Is probably past any piece of. Of. Of microphone, measuring equipment that you have, because you have a point of view on what tells a good story, what communicates the right person's breath and sound and resonance. Like, you have point of views on all of those things, and they inform the thing that you want to get out of this product.

[Alex Goldman]

The thing about what I do is that it is. So I think of it as being so heavily in the realm of communication and interaction between people, which to me is, like, messy and inexact and has a lot of. Has, like, a lot of loose ends and dangling things that then I have to, like, I have to move put together. I don't think of it as having any sort of quantifiable components, but it definitely does. And I'm. I am operating under them all the time. I just don't think about them.

[Adam Savage]

And I will wager you have sat in a control room with a really, really old engineer and had them surprise you with stuff that they noticed.

[Alex Goldman]

Oh, absolutely.

[Adam Savage]

And probably expanded your mind for noticing or showing you, hey, listen to this thing. When that drops out, this whole thing changes. You know, I mean, so this is. This is my epiphany with the gauge blocks, is precisely that I, like you thought, oh, communications and the humanities are all messy and spongy, but machining is where everything gets precise. And the answer is, yeah, to a degree, but the closer you look, the less precise it gets. This is the hardest lesson to explain in our current political divide, where science has been getting beaten the crap out of over the past 10 years, is that the whole history of science is nothing but the repeated lesson that the closer you look at anything, the more they disappear. You know, the more you zoom in, the grayer and blurrier the boundaries between things get.

[Alex Goldman]

I have to admit, I didn't expect that I would be making a thing like, this is now sort of the second measurement story that I've ended up working on in the Reese in recent history. And I really didn't expect it to ever get as philosophical as it does so quickly. After the break, we'll circle up with Kyle. Welcome back to the show. A few days after my chat with Adam Savage, I jumped on a call with Kyle to tell him everything that Adam told me. I told him that Adam does recommend skipping the first inch when using other people's measuring tape, but that even when you're using your own measuring tape, it's not unusual for discrepancies to develop over Time from temperature related shrinkage or even just from continued use. Also remember how Kyle wanted a recommendation for a measuring tape that was accurate enough to use that first inch. We asked Adam and he said, and I promise you we're not getting any sponsorship money for sharing this. He said the Lufkin Niteye was his favorite. So we passed that along to Kyle. Kyle ordered the nighteye and for the sake of isolating our variables, he also ordered a few other new measuring tapes and agreed to try measuring from the hook. And a week or so later we got this voice memo from him.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Hey guys. So I got some new measuring tapes and I have the ones that I had before that made me reach out to hyper fixed and kind of an unboxing video kind of style. Here I'm gonna go down the line. I have a 2x6 right in front of me. I've measured to 1 inch on the most precise ruler I could find. So I'm just gonna kind of measure that first inch and see how far everything is off. So with that I have a very cheap. Looks like it says Koh melon self lock 12 foot measuring tape. I expect this one to be not super great because it looks and feels extremely cheap. When I measure it, it looks like it's only it's a little bit high, but maybe a sixteenth of an inch further than what the ruler says, maybe even less so. That's actually pretty accurate. I've got a Dewalt here, which, you know, Dewalt's my favorite brand of tool, but I know that they probably don't make these, so I'm not quite sure exactly where it's gonna be. And the first in John here is a little short. Important to note that I have this one. I'm using the hook on these. As Adam Savage said, these could be dented, damaged from just use dropping things like that. Next, I'm going to go with a Cobalt, which is a Lowe's brand, generally decent as far as store brands are concerned. This is brand new. I actually have the packaging still on it. When I measure this up against the ruler point, it's pretty, pretty much wow. Yeah, it's pretty much dead on. So point for the new ruler for the new tape measures being dead accurate. Next I'm gonna go with Klein, which is a very nice brand of tool. They're expensive. I use them for very articulate action. And it is dead on again. Last I've got the lufkin shock force G2 Crescent. This is the Adam Savage recommended tape measure. It's pretty cool looking just to give you a visual. The other ones here have some like rubber padding on the outside. Most of them the Klein feels really good. The Dewalt has a lot of built like grips into it. This one seems to have like a stainless steel loop for like putting it on on like your person. The wow. The hook at the end feel extremely tight and oh and it's it's pinned into the tape measure with like 4 points. The measurements glow in the dark. This is actually really impressive. It's got a level built into it. It's. I didn't honestly know that they made tape measures like this as I'm slowly becoming a pro through this and this one is dead on. So to conclude, it looks like Adam Savage Adam Savage's advice about trust Keep your tools nice, trust the ones that you keep nice and don't trust the ones that you don't know where they.

[Kyle]

Came from, how old they are, how.

[Unnamed Speaker]

They'Ve been used and abused. It does feel like that is the answer after trying it with six different tape measures now.

[Kyle]

And I tried it with a whole.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Bunch more before when I was getting really erratic readings. It was all used once. So new tape measures, keep them nice. Feels like the move.

[Kyle]

Thank you very much for all your help.

[Alex Goldman]

Hyperfixed was produced by Emma Cortland and Amore Yates. It was also edited by Emma Cortland and Amori Yates. And listen, I have been alone with my kids all week. I barely had time to do anything for the show. So all the credit for this one goes to Emma Na Moore. Thank you so much. I can't imagine working on the show without you. The music is by the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder and me. It was engineered by Tony Williams. Fact checking by Amor Yates. You can get bonus episodes. Join our discord and much [e-mail] join we rely on our members to keep the show afloat. So if you can be a supporting member that would be amazing.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Amazing.

[Alex Goldman]

Also, this show can't exist without your problems to solve. So head over to hyperfixpod.com and submit them. Hyperfixed is a proud member of Radiotopia from prx, a network of independent creator owned listener supported podcasts. Discover audio with Vision at Radiotopia fm. Also, if you heard the button story from a couple weeks ago, there are still buttons available and you can pick one up@hypertfix pod.com button. Thanks so much for listening. See you soon.

[Adam Savage]

Radiotopia from PRX.