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I AM HealingStrong
121: Breast Cancer, A Wheelchair, Fear & A Different Way To Heal | Maria Schenkel
00:47:59
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- [00:00]
Maria Schenkel
I went on this healing journey by myself for about four months, I believe. Five, unfortunately, then I had a horse riding accident, which I ended up in a wheelchair. I could not walk. I broke several bones, and it was a very devastating journey because I had just been diagnosed with cancer. Then I lost the ability to walk. I was told I have to have or they told me or recommended a reconstructive surgery on my knee, which I opted out of because I didn't want to further compromise my immune system. And I remember just sitting in my bed, just been diagnosed with cancer, unable to walk, and just feeling not defeated. But, wow, life. What do you want to tell me? You know, now you have the time to really think, what type of life are you living? Who are you hanging out with? Because sometimes we're just so focused on what we want to achieve in the future and where we want to get, and it's always about becoming, you know, becoming happy, becoming successful, you know, but it's not about being. It should rather be about being happy, you know, being successful. Everything we have right now is all we need because we don't know what the future will bring. So that moment really taught me so much about being in the present.
- [01:30]
Podcast Narrator
You're listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast, a part of the Healing Strong organization, the number one network of holistic cancer support groups in the world. Each week we bring you stories of hope, real stories that will encourage you as you navigate your way on your own journey to health. Now here's your host, stage four cancer thriver Jim Mann.
- [01:56]
Jim Mann
Well, I'm pretty excited about today's guest because she's from my very own group, which I lead with such strength and wisdom. Yeah. We have Maria. Is it Schenkel?
- [02:12]
Maria Schenkel
Schenkel is correct. Yes.
- [02:14]
Jim Mann
Look at me. Is that German?
- [02:16]
Maria Schenkel
Look at that.
- [02:17]
Jim Mann
Did I just speak German? That's pretty cool. Yeah, you. You came into my group. I think you've been there three times, probably about it. Yeah, we got a pretty good group. I mean, I have like 25 to 30 on the email list. Usually 8 to 12 show up. And they're all wonderful people. They're all women. I'm the only guy with cancer, apparently. But you came in, it was like a breath of fresh air. You came in with all this energy and you're excited and. And I'm like, who is this? And then you had the accent. I thought she's from Germany, and I forgot. Who invited you? Was it Wanda invited you?
- [02:56]
Maria Schenkel
Wanda and Beth. I know Wanda, Beth. They invited.
- [02:59]
Jim Mann
Yes. Who are both wonderful People also. Yes, but yeah. Thank you so much for being on this podcast. I want to hear your story. I've heard bits and pieces of it, of course. Mostly you ladies talking to each other in the meeting. I try to listen in sometimes, but, you know, it scares me. So did you grow up in Germany?
- [03:19]
Maria Schenkel
That's right. Yeah. I lived in Germany and moved to the US in 2018. Family is still in Germany and due to the company that my husband and me, I used to work for that company, we came to the US and moved to South Carolina.
- [03:36]
Jim Mann
Oh, wow. Now I was in Germany back in the mid-90s. Did you see me?
- [03:42]
Maria Schenkel
Probably not. I was about 5 years old.
- [03:44]
Jim Mann
Okay. Okay. I think I saw you. A bunch of little five year olds running around. But yeah, it was beautiful, beautiful place. But I probably was anywhere near where you lived. I was in Heidelberg and Frankfurt, I think.
- [03:57]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah.
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Jim Mann
Where all the tourists go.
- [03:59]
Maria Schenkel
Exactly.
- [04:00]
Jim Mann
So. And you've been here for you say seven years. Okay. And you have like 15 kids?
- [04:07]
Maria Schenkel
Just about two, which is. Got my hands full with two.
- [04:11]
Jim Mann
It probably sounds like 15 sometimes.
- [04:13]
Maria Schenkel
Right, exactly. That's what I always think. Two is just enough. And I have a horse that's also like a child and a dog as well. So I feel like I'm very blessed with what I have. Yeah.
- [04:24]
Jim Mann
Wow, you have a horse. That's exciting. I don't know anybody with a horse.
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Maria Schenkel
This is great. You should come visit me one day at the barn.
- [04:33]
Jim Mann
Okay. Last time I rode a horse, it was at this place, you know, where you just go to ride. And the horse was apparently tired of being ridden. And so when we're halfway through the bunch of us were halfway through it, my horse decided it was sick of it and it turned around and ran all the way back to the barn, jumping over logs and everything. And I said, well, whatever you want. I'm not going to fight you.
- [04:57]
Maria Schenkel
So my goodness. Well, good thing that you're still sitting here. Right. So you made it that right.
- [05:03]
Jim Mann
They said, do you want another horse? I said, I'm good right now. So I was in my teens anyway. I've never told that story before. That was pretty exciting. But okay, so business brought you over here and so everything was fine. You, you're a healthy kind of person. You've always eaten right and exercise right?
- [05:24]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah. Very health focused. I'm very health conscious. I've always been, but I wouldn't say I've always been. But I had a lot of chronic diseases in my past, you know, which made me more aware to look out for myself. But now looking back and realizing what health really means, I now know that I've not been very healthy, you know, because health is not just what you're feeding yourself. It's also the thoughts you're thinking, you know, the people you hang out with and the energy that you're attracting. So now I look back, I. I know that I was not as healthy as I should have been, because I think when you're really aligned with yourself and you're healthy, you do not get cancer, you know? So, yeah, that was definitely a learning lesson.
- [06:11]
Jim Mann
Okay, so diagnosis has been rather recent, right? What? How. Tell me how that went.
- [06:17]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah, so about a year ago, 14 months ago, in September 2024, I went to the hospital because I had felt a lump in my breast when I was stretching, actually. And I was in a position that I usually not in. And I was a little bit concerned, but not too much, because in my mind, I was very healthy. I had also nursed my daughter for a long time, which always was my way of thinking, okay, this will prevent any breast cancer, you know? But I felt like I needed to. Yeah. Get it checked. And I did not really think I had cancer, but I was worried enough to go, you know, and have a check. So the diagnosis came out of nowhere, I would say, because it's, you know, that feeling that everyone talks about. You never think it's you, and it's a very surreal moment. It's not like how you would imagine, like, yourself crying or. I'm sure you remember very well when you were diagnosed. You know, it's a very. It feels like the floor underneath you is just like, breaking apart, falling apart. And you're like, this is not me right now. You cannot even comprehend the word. So it was a quite a big shock. So I was diagnosed with invasive ductal carcinoma. And it was so shocking because we're a pretty big family, you know, and also in my friend Turgo, I've never known anyone with cancer. So to me, this was not something like, oh, I can relate to that person, or, you know, can turn to that person. I just knew nothing about it. And it was pretty shocking, I think, for not just my community, but everyone, friends and family, because they knew I was rather crunchy, you know, than just living life to the fullest, you know, preaching water, drinking wine. Not like that. You know, I was always very, like, careful with what I'm consuming and what I'm feeding myself with. So it was pretty dramatic and very shocking. Yes.
- [08:30]
Jim Mann
Wow. That's crazy that you didn't know anybody with cancer because no, these days is like every other person it feels like has cancer.
- [08:39]
Maria Schenkel
Yes, I agree. It's almost similar to like you just bought yourself a red car, right. And all of a sudden you see all the red cars that you have never seen before. And now I meet, I mean, obviously I'm, you know, in this kind of community, but now I'm just shocked to see it's one in two people that gets diagnosed with cancer.
- [09:00]
Jim Mann
Yeah.
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Maria Schenkel
And breast cancer is one in eight women. So back in the days, it felt like it's a disease of the old. You know, it never really hits younger generations, but it's very scary. And as far as I research, I heard that first of all, we all carry cancer within us, you know, but it's how strong is your immune system to fight it off, you know, And I think we still have this belief, or most people think that cancer is just genetic, which in the end is only 5 to 10% of cases that are genetic and the rest is just mainly like a metabolic imbalance. So it's a whole different approach. And that's something like when I got my diagnosis, I was just so numb because immediately I knew, wow, I will not do chemo, I will not do radiation, what's going to happen to me? So I already knew that this would be very, very difficult for me because I did not, without knowing anyone, I did not believe in those, you know, healing mechanisms. So that was, I think I was not so scared about that I had cancer, more about what options would I have. And you know, I didn't know about like a metabolic dysfunction and what options were out there. So it was very scary in the beginning. And I, I also found myself in this vicious cycle of the medical system. I mean, once you're diagnosed, you're just in there and you cannot even process it. And you're already in the system of being called every day, you know, by the nurse, navigator, appointment after appointment, and you had no real moment to let it sink and realize what's just happening. And that's where I think now looking back, is where a lot of people get kind of fear mongered into making quick decisions that they're not able to make. Consciously, consciously. And that's where I feel people looking back might also have regrets, like, oh, did I really want that? You know, because it's very radical and very quick how we judge and how we treat. And the problem that I see nowadays is that, I mean, we're not standard of care, still focus so much on Cancer, you know, itself, it's not focused on the entire body. And in the end, cancer is just a symptom of an underlying disease. You know, And I learned pretty quickly because I remember I was lost for maybe like a day or two because I had to decide, okay, will I do a biopsy or not? I had to call everyone, but I remember the first thing I did. And this is true. It is not made up. And I have a lady that actually brought me to that. The first day I found out, my chiropractor actually said, hey, I have a friend, she's going through the same. Just here's her number. Call her. And the first thing she said, do you know Chris beat cancer? I'm like, no, who's that? She's like, you should really read into it and get his book. And that's where you should start. So that was truly the very first book that I read, and it empowered me enough to dig deeper, you know, to ask more questions and to advocate more for myself to really understand, okay, we have this big C word now, but what's really happening in my body and why is this happening? You know, ask questions instead of just jumping on this train of like, okay, biopsy, cut it, burn it, poison it, Which I'm not opposed to, in a sense, you know, but I feel you need to ask more questions, you know, because your body, I don't think that cancer or any illness is there to punish you. It's just a survival mechanism. Basically, it's saying the way you were living was killing you. And, you know, this is like a redirection. It's nothing to defeat you. And, yes, it can be very scary. And I am there, you know, I'm right within it. But. But it's just a redirection to overthink your life. And I think I am still doing my homework, but I have really tried to understand what my body is trying to tell me.
- [13:39]
Jim Mann
How did your family react? Did they. Were they behind you right away about no chemo, radiation, or were they like, oh, my gosh, like, so many family members are like, oh, you need to take care of this. And all people know, of course, if they don't know anybody with cancer, they just know about chemo and all that. Were they behind you?
- [13:58]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah. So I remember the first initial thought was, since I would not opt for chemo and radiation, oh, I will just cut off both breasts because that's what they had recommended. So that was, like, in my head at first, you know, what about I just cut it out and then I handled the rest later. So I remember my mom being very shocked how radical I sounded, because she knows me, but I was just. I was so lost. And I think everyone's just so scared for you, and they want you to make the right decisions. And, you know, but, you know, being raised by my mom, she's someone who really thinks more about root cause work. You know, she's a yoga teacher, and she's very spiritual. So she always raised me in the sense of, okay, there's something. There's an imbalance or like something is not aligned in your life. Your body, your emotions, and your spirit are just not aligned. Okay, where can you find that balance again? And, yeah, I had family members that, of course, were thinking, okay, you should immediately doing. You should be doing what they're telling you. And, I mean, they gave me a very invasive and radical solution. You know, I've. I've never heard that of someone that right away they said I should opt for a double mastectomy and I should do radiation. And based on the pathology from the mastectomy, I would potentially have to do chemo. I would have to do a monthly shot, like where they place an implant in your stomach to put you into early menopause. And then also they told me I should do. I'm not sure how to pronounce it, hysterectomy, like getting your ovaries out. And then potentially. Not potentially. They didn't know how many years, but she said five to 10 years of hormone blocker. So when they presented that case to me, so it's basically like a meeting of meeting the surgeon, the radiologist, the oncologist. When they presented that in four hours to me, I was like, wow, that means I'm not going to be healthy for the next five to 10 years. To me, that's not what health sounds like. You know, it was way too radical, and I needed to hear that. And my husband was really begging me and said, whatever your journey will be, please, let's go and listen at least what they have to say. And I prepped myself so much for that meeting, and I didn't want to argue there, but I did ask them if they've ever seen people opting out of that and having good results or healing, having, like a spontaneous remission. And when they told me that that does not exist, I only knew you are not part of my healing team. You know, I felt like it's just a lie, you know, and just what they presented me with, they could not even say that I will be cancer Free. That's the next thing you know. You have no guarantee. Yes, there are statistics, but in the end, every healing journey is so individual, you know, and I'm not autistic. So it was difficult in the beginning, but after that meeting, I knew I need to find a different way. I just have to. And I'm not saying that you should not listen to your doctors, but I would urge everyone to advocate for themselves, you know, to really listen to what you're being presented with, letting that resonate and then making, you know, decisions that are not fear based, you know, and.
- [17:41]
Jim Mann
Not under pressure, not to put doctors down or anything. But my, my personal opinion is that, I mean, you do listen to your doctors, but if all they talk about is chemo and they don't see the big picture at all, then I say don't listen to that doctor. Go to one who does see the big picture, even if they are advocating chemo still. Like my doctor, he didn't want to do chemo, but he talked about how important diet is, how important your mindset is, how important, you know, exercise and stress, which I was shocked about that because I hear most doctors don't talk about that. Yeah, I think I've told you before, but, you know, I had a cousin who was diagnosed the same time, and they said, you know, we'll just chemo you and you'll be fine. And then of course, five years later, he was gone. It was because of the chemo, because he was just a tiny, I mean, he was a lot bigger than me, but he was wasted away. So, yeah, those kind of doctors I would say stay away from. Look for somebody who has the big picture at least. And how did you find a doctor? I'm assuming you have doctors that you're happy with.
- [18:56]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah, so I bought a bunch of books, to be honest, you know, I started reading a lot of books. So very quickly I created my own protocol. So I, you know, the books that I got, I was like, okay, they're recommending this. And of course it was not targeted to what probably I have, but I understood quickly that I needed to detox my body first, you know, because cancer cannot thrive in an alkaline environment. So my mission was whatever I would be doing. I need to get more alkaline. You know, I have to create a terrain which makes it very hard for cancer to thrive. So I had always been plant based for many years, probably 12 years. All the sugar sources that I had were more like naturally derived. So like coconut sugar, date sugar, you know, So I was Very focused on that. But, you know, I still. You can be vegan, but still not eat, get all your nutrients and you know, in a way. So I immediately started cutting out all carbs, which is very difficult. I will not lies. So like getting your comfort pizza or pasta, even if it's vegan, you know, I mean, you think that's the only thing that will fill you carbs on your plate. So I stopped totally consuming that. And I remember how difficult that was also mentally. But I was so focused and I wanted to heal. So I started this raw vegan diet, you know, because pretty much you get all the enzymes still in. And it's a gut healing thing, right? To heal. Like everything kind of starts in the gut. So I got all these books and I knew pretty quickly, okay, I can start this myself. And I was very determined. I started with infusions, so I had no doctor. And where I live in South Carolina, I couldn't find anyone in the beginning. So I started researching and I knew that there are different integrative clinics that you can be part of, you know, and I knew I needed different people on my healing team because my oncologist, she was very pushy and I just felt there was no real support, you know, And I always respect medicine, you know, and what they have learned. But I would hope to find someone that thinks a little bit outside of the box. It's not narrow minded, you know, and you know, because this is not about ego, just because you don't follow what I tell you, maybe this is an opportunity to learn something new, you know, because there's so many options, right? And every healing journey is so individual just because what works for me or might not work for me might work for someone else. So I went, I went on this healing journey by myself for about four months, I believe. Five, unfortunately, then I had a horse riding accident, which I ended up in a wheelchair. Oh, I could not walk. I broke several bones and it was a very devastating journey because I had just been diagnosed with cancer. Then I lost the ability to walk. I was told I have to have or they told me or recommended a reconstructive surgery on my knee, which I opted out of because I didn't want to further compromise my immune system. And I remember just sitting in my bed, just been diagnosed with cancer, unable to walk and just feeling not defeated. But wow, life. What do you want to tell me? You know, now you have the time to really think, what type of life are you living? Who are you hanging out with? Because sometimes we're Just so focused on what we want to achieve in the future and where we want to get. And it's always about becoming, you know, becoming happy, becoming successful, you know, but it's not about being. It should rather be about being happy, you know, being successful. Everything we have right now is all we need because we don't know what the future will bring. So that moment really taught me so much about being in the presence. You know, it's very difficult. That's the only moment we have. Everything else, we don't even know if we will get there. So I am so thankful. Now looking back, obviously that was very harsh reality, right? Because I didn't know will I be able to walk or ride again without this surgery. But it was a very mind opening moment. And during that time, I had applied to be a patient at Hope4Cancer in Mexico because it's an integrative clinic that kind of not just treats the symptom and focuses on cancer, but treats the body as a whole, which really resonated with me. And I just needed someone to kind of take me under their wings because you can only do it so much all by yourself. And obviously, you know, it can go wrong quickly or spread. So the problem was I couldn't go to Hope for Cancer because I was sitting in a wheelchair and they had told me, you need to be able to walk. So I did everything in my power and I used a lot of the healing modalities that I already used to heal my terrain, my body, to be able to walk, you know. And I don't remember the exact timeline, but I think after six or eight weeks, I walked again. And I had to take a video of myself to send it to Hope for Cancer because they didn't believe me. They said, we want to see a video that you're able to walk, otherwise you cannot come to this clinic. And so I went in March this year for three weeks to Hope for Cancer. And this was a very empowering journey because this place, as you've probably heard of it, and I saw that you already interviewed Dr. Tony, who's the founder of Hope for Cancer. It's an amazing place, fueled with so much hope. And I have to say that's the first place I've been to where everyone has the same mindset that you just feel, hold and held and supported. And I mean, cancer is not a physical problem. Most people don't realize, you know, it's way more a spiritual problem, an emotional problem. It's like an issue, like an existential issue, you know, like, who am I? And am I living up to your truth? And what I did, like there is that they dig very deep into your history and your childhood and really see what trauma has maybe caused this, you know, to unfold. And I learned even more about all the modalities that are out there. But I also knew you're not going there to be cured. Right. So you have to be very realistic. I think it's a very important milestone, especially for people that feel very lost. And you also enter this huge community of supportive people. And I'm very thankful for that. I'm very thankful for my time at Hope4Cancer. And the tumor also shrunk at Hope4Cancer, about 30%. But I knew immediately when I came home. Wow. At home I probably don't have a needle stick in my arm every day because that's what you have there and, you know, people cooking food for you. So it was very rough to get back to reality when I came back home. And I had a very hard time to kind of implement that into my daily life. Also being a mom, you know, and just dealing with life in general, I mean, you know, it's very. That's the skill set you have to develop how to heal, how to look after yourself without being stressed, you know, but still enjoying life and being present. So that was my biggest learning or issue. Like I really had to create new tools to be able to do that.
- [27:20]
Jim Mann
Where are you now when you journey? I know you have ups and downs, as we all do, but take us through your day. Do you do a lot of juicing? Just a lot of salad. You shove that salad in there that Chris Work talks about or what is it that you actually do?
- [27:34]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah, so I focus a lot on detoxification and oxygen, oxygenation, gut healing, you know, juicing, as you said, and emotional and spiritual health. So every day I do treatments. I have still treatments that I'm using from Hope for Cancer. So I focus on hyperthermia, for example, because cancer is a cold disease and when you raise your body temperature with hyperthermia, you. The structures or proteins of cancer cannot sustain. So I do this in conjunction with hydrogen gas that I'm inhaling. I am doing detoxification with coffee enemas. Also, I juice a lot and I do a lot of immunomodulation with biological infusions like mistletoe, high dose vitamin C, artisanate. So there are different modalities that you can do, but I think it's very individual. That's what I learned too. You know, everyone Will give you advice. And no matter where you go, you think everyone should do methylene blue, everyone should do vitamin C. But in the end, we're also individual. It's very important. And that's something that I felt was missing, like in cancer care in general. Also to the different places that I've been to is I've done a test in Germany that really checks the circulating to cancer cells and focuses on which compounds is this chemotherapy or standard of care? Standard of care treatments or biological compounds that are sensitive to the cancer cells. So I did this test and I was surprised. So many things that people recommend, like ivermectin, you know, amyglade, they didn't even work for me. But I paid a lot of money to take these things. Right, right. So I created a protocol, a new protocol, and I work with different doctors, so I have still support from Hope4Cancer because you're in the program for like a year. And whenever I have an idea, then I'll send it to my supporting doctors and then kind of get like their inputs, you know, and they help me with like dosing things. So there's not one doctor that gives me an entire protocol. It's more me coming up with what I think might work, you know, with the research I've done and proposing that to doctors. So I have several integrative doctors that I'm asking and consulting. And right now it looks like that the tumor has not shrunk further, which I had achieved at Hope4Cancer. It looks like there have been some growth, But I have done a lot of treatments, even intratumoral, which you cannot do everywhere. But you know, with the testing I have done, they cannot really determine if they're seeing swelling or necrosis. Necrosis means that the tumor is dying off, you know, and you have more T cells coming to this scenario, you know, and you see more swelling. So there's a lot of uncertainty right now. And yeah, that was very difficult for me to accept at first. But at the same time, all my blood terrain tests, they're like there's just nothing that they can find. There is no inflammation that they can see in my blood. My white blood cells, they're all up to count. So my tumor markers are all in normal range. So I was able with the protocol I've been doing now for 12, 14 months to really stay with like the in range with my tumor markers. But I was hoping to be able to shrink the tumor more. So that was always my goal. But I also knew I'm a very result Driven person. And I'm like, okay. I put so much effort and energy in there. I need to see the measurement. You know, it needs to be smaller. But I think this journey really teaches you so much about patience, you know, that think about it. When you can feel a tumor, it's not just been there and grew within four weeks or 14 months, you know, the size of that, the tumor that I have is. It's probably been there eight to 10 years, what I've been told. So that's something I still have to learn to just, you know, accept this as part of my journey and not be so driven on, so goal oriented. Okay. This needs to be gone, you know, because I do not want to cut it. I do not want to poison it. But that's still something I, Yeah. Have to learn and accept. So that's where I am right now.
- [32:42]
Jim Mann
You sound very busy.
- [32:44]
Maria Schenkel
Yes, it's a full time job. It is. I feel like being a mom is a full time job. Right. Healing is a full time job. So, yeah, it's. I'm never bored. Let's put it this way.
- [32:57]
Jim Mann
So how are you feeling mentally? Is it wearing you down or are you, like. You seem very happy.
- [33:04]
Maria Schenkel
Since my last scan, I felt some sort of defeat. Why? Okay, why is it not how? Because, you know, you have an intuition as well. And I have felt great. I mean, I feel better than before my diagnosis. I feel like I'm thriving and I feel mentally so strong. I cannot make this up, you know, but every time I enter, like the cancer center or have to go for scans, it's like I forgot everything that I had been doing and everything that I'm believing in. Because you're so consumed with so much fear and negativity and so much judgment. Did you really think, oh, my God, maybe I am the outsider here and what I'm doing is all wrong. It's very difficult to cancel out the noise, you know, and, you know, they put a label on you. Oh, that's the lady that went to Mexico, you know, because what better place to heal in Mexico, you know, so it's. It's. That's not easy, I have to say. And I don't want to go there and argue. I don't want to sound like I know it better, but I'm always hoping for more compassion and more, you know, it's very, very difficult already. And there's. I mean, I remember I went to my skin and there was a lady and she's like, you're glowing, you know, what are you doing? Can you tell me? And I told her that I'm also using some off purpose drugs, you know, to suppress cancer pathways. And I'm juicing and doing coffee enemas. And she's like, can you text me after? I want to know. And I thought it was so cute, you know, that someone in the medical field was open. She's like, I know this guy Chris beat cancer. That's the only guy I know. And that I really do. So that really made my day. And I got to a point now where I will consider more of like, more invasive approach. You know, I will remove the tumor burden. So this will be to my next step. And it's not something that I was comfortable doing. I still have to kind of mentally prepare myself for it. It will be next week, but at least I cannot say I haven't tried everything, you know, and I feel I've been in this 14 months boot camp now that I put myself into, you know, and you know, how people are creating new habits does not happen overnight. So if I would have done a mastectomy last year after my diagnosis, I'm pretty sure I would have gone back very quickly to my old habits, you know, having not learned everything. But I'm at a point now that I'm able to, you know, create purpose from this pain, everything I've been through. And hopefully also, you know, giving people options, you know, educating. I mean, I don't know it better than anyone else, but I've learned a lot. And you know, I always listen to people that follow the standard of care because I've met so many people in those integrative clinics that have done surgery, chemo, radiation, but what happened to them? Within the next five or 10 years, they're in the same spot where I am. And usually then there are later staged more aggressive types of cancer, different cancers even, you know, because there are some people, I've met, women that chose to have a double mastectomy, but then they have a different cancer somewhere else. So in the end, you know, if cancer is still able to grow, it will come back in another body part. And what standard of care is still missing that we're not addressing the root cause, you know, we're eliminating, but we're. The root cause are cancer stem cells. So. And you're an oncology. I don't know why they don't talk about that or at least educate their patients to give them a choice. I mean, they can pretty much shrink tumors and eliminate the fast dividing cells, but they're still unable to target Cancer stem cells. And they will always remain, they stay dormant. You cannot see them on a scan, you cannot see them in a blood test. And that's why people that are in remission all of a sudden have a cancer diagnosis, it's not a new one. You know, cancer was still present. So why are they missing this? You know, why are they not addressing my oncologist? She said, it doesn't matter what you eat, Maria. Because I asked her, what else can I do? There was nothing. And there's just this lack of education I feel in the medical system. And I feel that's not fair because even when you do chemo or radiation or surgery, you can still support your body.
- [38:04]
Jim Mann
Yeah, lots of doctors are just trapped by the pharmaceutical. Yeah, machine, let's just say. And so it's not, you know, the hands are tied or they just don't get trained that way. And so, you know, obviously we don't want to put down doctors there. They are very smart people.
- [38:21]
Maria Schenkel
Yes. But we're thankful for them. Right. Because they're so many life saving, you know, treatments that you can do. So I, I, this is not my approach to down talk what they're not capable of. But I wish doctors were more open, you know, and just rethinking cancer and not just labeling it as a genetic disease, you know?
- [38:44]
Jim Mann
Yeah. Well, I, I think you are doing a great job. You're like the smartest person in our group. Sometimes when you talk, you've done so much research and you know, big words, I don't know what they are. But speaking of that, tell us about your group. How wonderful is it?
- [39:03]
Maria Schenkel
I love this group. So Healing Strong is really a group where people do think outside of the box, you know, and you feel everyone that's there is just making you feel seen, you know, there's more acceptance and it just, no matter what path everyone went down, they're all curious, you know, they ask questions and it's just this strong bond that I have not found in the city where I live yet. So I'm very thankful for it. I'm really thankful that this exists, you know, I mean I've seen it at the integrative clinics where I was, but obviously that's not like your everyday life. And I'm very happy and I'm actually advocating and when I meet people in Greenville, I always tell them about it. So I actually met two people at the treatment center where I'm now and they're like, yeah, we will come over next time. Because I remember when I went for the first time I'm like, this is pretty cool. You know, it's just. Even if you have nothing to say, just listening, it always gives you hope, you know, it's like, not alone in this journey. Everyone is scared of cancer. Not everyone will get it, but we're all affected by it. You know, if it's a family member, if it's yourself, co workers, I mean, it's pretty much everyone's kind of affected by it. Everyone knows someone.
- [40:29]
Jim Mann
Your group leader must be amazing.
- [40:32]
Maria Schenkel
I know. Yes. No, I'm very thankful for you.
- [40:36]
Jim Mann
He's more like a victim there. But that's all right. He's surrounded with all women. A few husbands that support. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm a little alone there, but that's all right. You probably see the tears coming down sometimes. Okay, well, now that we know that you're in probably the best group there is that meets at the really cool place of the cancer survivors park, that makes us really cool. Is there anything you would say to people? And I know there are people listening right now. They just heard about it through Chris. Work, of course. It always seems to be the path, but they just got their diagnosis, and they're scared. Their doctors are telling them, hey, you need to do all these things like chemo or cut things off or whatever it may be. What would you say to them to maybe calm them down a little?
- [41:21]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah, I would probably say that cancer is not just challenging your body, but also challenging your voice. So this is not about obedience. I think it's more about taking ownership, you know, advocating for yourself, speaking out, and not being afraid of judgment, even by your doctors. You know, just really telling them how you feel about things and asking more questions. I think that's very important because what I've learned and what I've seen, Root cause is not an option. You know, root cause work. It's the only way out. And people need to address that. Yes, there are solutions. Yes. If there's a tumor pressing on vital organs, you know, it might be advisable to do an immediate surgery, but that's not where healing ends. You have to make a major shift in your life. You know, you have to kind of check in with your relationships, you know, your marriage. Like, what are you consuming? What's your mind consuming? All the time. So I would hope that people really see this as a chance. It is scary. It's not. Just because I'm talking about it lightly doesn't mean it's heavy, But I think cancer is an opportunity to grow and to really Thrive from it and you know, and come out better because in the end it's just like a repositioning in your life. It wants to, you know, help you to survive. This is not about victimizing you. And to me, to wrap this up, I do not fight cancer. This is not a battle, it's healing. You know, you have to heal your body to get out alive. Because in the end, if you fight a battle, you're fighting against yourself. And I do not believe in fighting or having this type of war against yourself, you know, because you want to heal. And in the end, your cells, even if it sounds very spiritual, but they're just out of love and they need energy again to thrive. And you have to approach that with like spiritual matter. You know, who are you surrounding yourself with nutrients and just taking care of yourself. It's the chance to be redirected. And I think that's how healing truly happens.
- [43:45]
Jim Mann
That's right. So many people, just about everybody I talk to that going through a journey and they come out the other side. They always say cancer is the best thing that happened to them. Not because they enjoy cancer.
- [43:56]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah.
- [43:57]
Jim Mann
But because they, it just basically showed things in their life that was out of balance and, and now it's like going from black and white to color. You just appreciate things more. You appreciate your family, your whatever it is. You just appreciate where you are. You live more in the moment, which is what I'm doing. And because my kids are grown, you long for that time, but you realize time keeps going. So I mean, I'm living in the moment with my grown kids, just enjoying, you know, the in laws and all that. My daughter in law to my son in law, I'm like just gonna live in the moment right here. Not longing for when my kids were little, you know, when they're adorable like I'm sure yours are, but just be right where they are. And so yeah, it changed my life. I've always lived like five years down the road and I don't know why. It doesn't do anything for me. I'm always in a hurry to get there.
- [44:52]
Maria Schenkel
Yes.
- [44:53]
Jim Mann
I'm like, well, that's a lot of stress.
- [44:56]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah. Always striving to become, but not to be. It's more like being. And I think in the end it's not about how long you truly live, but how well and how deeply you lived, you know, while you're still here. And that's something we all have to learn, you know, with our promise and living true to our purpose. And once you find That I think that's how you become whole, you know.
- [45:23]
Jim Mann
Yeah. Well, we'll have to have you back when you are through this journey and thriving like crazy. So next week, of course.
- [45:30]
Maria Schenkel
That's a good goal. Yeah, always. You know, I'm very goal driven, but I would love to come back. Yes. When I'm out on the other end and then reflecting back, you know, where I was before and what I learned from it. Because, yeah. I feel once you go through the deepest pain, that's how you grow new tools. You know, when everything's going well and right in your life, that's not how you, you know, conquer things. It's not how you become more mature. And I think through pain, you really build character, you really struggle, and you really come back out a lot stronger. So I'm ready for the next adventures. Let's put it this way, and see where it's taking me.
- [46:12]
Jim Mann
Yeah. Stay off the horse for a while.
- [46:14]
Maria Schenkel
Yeah, exactly.
- [46:16]
Jim Mann
All right, well, thank you so much, Maria.
- [46:19]
Maria Schenkel
Thank you, Jim. Thank you so much for having me and, yeah. Being able to voice myself.
- [46:25]
Jim Mann
Sure. See you at the next meeting.
- [46:26]
Maria Schenkel
See you.
- [46:27]
Podcast Narrator
You've been listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast, a part of the Healing Strong organization. We hope you found encouragement in this episode as well as the confidence to take control of your healing journey, knowing that God will guide you on this path. Healing Strong is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to connect, support and educate individuals facing cancer and other diseases. Throughout strategies that help to rebuild the body, renew the soul, and refresh the spirit. It costs nothing to be a part of a local or online group. You can do that by going to our website@healingstrong.org and finding a group near you or an online group or start your own. Your choice. While you're there, take a look around at all the front free resources. Though the resources and groups are free, we encourage you to join our membership program. At 25 or $75 a month, this helps us to be able to reach more people with hope and encouragement. And that also comes with some extra perks as well. So check it out. If you enjoyed this podcast, please give us a five star rating. Leave an encouraging comment and help us spread the word. We'll see you next week with another story on the I Am Healing Strong podcast.