← I AM HealingStrong
I AM HealingStrong
123: Fear, Purpose, Multiple Cancer Diagnoses and Brain Cancer | Scott Hamilton part 2
00:29:05
Loading summary
Transcript83 lines
- [00:00]
Jim Mann
As the Winter Olympics currently take place in Italy, I want to take you back to part two of my interview with gold medalist Scott Hamilton.
- [00:09]
Scott Hamilton
I've only fallen on the ice, estimated 41,600 times.
- [00:12]
Jim Mann
Yeah, yeah. And ice is hard.
- [00:14]
Scott Hamilton
Well, it is hard, but, you know, it's like. But when you get up 41,600 times, the next fall has very little meaning, you know, And I think that's kind of the metaphor for all of this. You know, you're going to get knocked down. It's. You just gonna get up.
- [00:29]
Jim Mann
You're just good at it.
- [00:30]
Scott Hamilton
It's. Well, I mean, it's like you're gonna. Like for everybody listening, it's like you're gonna. You're gonna get knocked down, you're gonna fall down, you're gonna have some sort of, like, knocked off your feet at some point in your life. It's just gonna happen. I'm not. I'm not projecting or wishing that on anybody, but it's just life, Right? Right. It's how you get up. It's how you get up.
- [00:50]
Podcast Host
You're listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast. I a part of the Healing Strong organization, the number one network of holistic cancer support groups in the world. Each week we bring you stories of hope, real stories that will encourage you as you navigate your way on your own journey to health. Now here's your host, stage four cancer thriver Jim Mann.
- [01:17]
Jim Mann
Tell us more about the CARES Foundation.
- [01:20]
Scott Hamilton
Yeah, we started off, it was sort of as a thank you to the Cleveland Clinic Taussig Cancer center for getting me through it. And I. And I learned so much in that. My oncologist is on the board of the foundation, and he was the guy that helped me get it started in the first place as an initiative at the Cleveland Clinic Tassa Cancer center as part of their patient services program. I really wanted to get back, and they're like, well, example, we're doing the press conference, it was January 2000, and they. I looked at my urologist, Dr. Eric Klein, and I said, what do you think of fourth angel? And he goes, sounds interesting. What is it? And I go, well, your first angel is your oncologist, your second year angels, your oncology nurse. You can feel free to switch those anytime you want. But your third angel is your friends and family. What's missing in your cancer journey is your fourth angel. And the fourth angel is somebody who's been there, done that, that can mentor you and work as sort of a role model. They've got through it and they're on the other side now. I. They have knowledge that I desperately need. So we created a mentorship program that exists to this day. I survived. I guess it was 97, so it'd be 27 years ago. Wow. And they're pairing 100 people a month. Patients, caregivers, and pediatric caregivers. And so those people have unique knowledge and understanding and experience. Right. That can be shared with the next person going through it. And so fourth angel is again doing 100 pairs a month. Matches a month. And then the other part of it was I did what all patients do. I went on Dr. Google.
- [03:02]
Jim Mann
Yeah.
- [03:03]
Scott Hamilton
And back then, the Internet was relatively new. Right. But I went on, I did a search of what do I need to know about testicular cancer? And all I found was a medical journal paper that had 12 syllable words in it. And I thought, I'm too dumb to be sick. I mean, so is everyone, right? Unless you're like third year medical school or whatever, you're. You don't understand what you're going through. Right. So I figured there was another opportunity. So for five years, I was the organ grinders monkey to raise enough money to build chemo care.com and what's wild is I just gave a speech locally to some oncology nurses at a, you know, a meeting they had here. And I, and I told them about chemocare.com and they looked at me, I go, how many of you have heard of chemocare.com, every single hand.
- [03:51]
Jim Mann
Wow.
- [03:52]
Scott Hamilton
It was powerful. This has been a spectacular resource to give our patients what they need to know in 8th grade English and Spanish and with Google Translate, any language in the world. Because that information didn't exist before. Here's how it's administered in language you can understand here. Every single drug, every single drug combination, here's what they're designed to do, here's how they work, and here are the side effects associated with those drugs, and here's how to manage them so you're not flying blind anymore. Every single day for me was a step in the dark. And I just thought that was a huge issue in cancer. So we solved that problem with chemocare.com and then after that, I go, well, now we need to focus on like, let's, let's cure people, you know, and so we, you know, it. That was at the Cleveland clinic. We did 15 years, and then I did three more years of fundraising for them. And. And then they said, basically, go be an independent foundation. And so when we started this, we were the Cleveland. We were the CARES initiative at the Cleveland Clinic Tausa Cancer center, and then we launched as the CARES Foundation. So we're an independent foundation now because we can do more things as an independent foundation than we can as part of a healthcare organization. And so we. We sat down and said, what's our strategy? And I said, well, I think we need to fund the future of cancer treatment. And that is treat the cancer, spare the patient harm. And so that's a good angle. What is that? Yeah, it's a great angle. It's like, how do you do that? And I go, I've been so many different cancer centers, and the promise of immunotherapy is real, and we need to get behind that. And at that point, there wasn't an immunotherapy drug on the market. It was just this concept that our bodies created the cancer. It's not naive to think that our bodies can't recognize and destroy it. Because right now, as we're talking and as people are listening, our bodies are finding dead, broken, or mutant cells and saying, out, out, out. But the cancer cell tricks the body into, you know, I need more food here. You take my waste here. We'll do everything. We're going to do everything to accommodate you, but it's destroying the host. So how do we teach our bodies to recognize. Well, wait a minute. You don't belong here.
- [06:32]
Jim Mann
Out.
- [06:32]
Scott Hamilton
You know, and immunotherapy is, to me, is the best way to do that. It's T cell therapy. It's, you know, there's a lot of different, you know, ways of approaching all of this. And. And it really is. It's just authentically and legitimately and genuinely allowing your body to understand how to treat the cancer and. And spare the rest of your body harm.
- [06:55]
Jim Mann
Yeah, I mean, it worked for me.
- [06:56]
Scott Hamilton
There you go.
- [06:58]
Jim Mann
Two months. It killed every. In me. And of course, there's. Obviously, there's a long way to go, because with some people, after it finds the cancer does that, it looks for other things, which is not supposed to. It's like, whoa, okay, let's go after the organs. Which is. They keep checking that, but fortunately, mine decided, guess what?
- [07:17]
Scott Hamilton
We're both playing with house money now. It's all gravy. It's all like, today is just a day I never would have been able to experience without those two guys in Indiana as research scientists that just say, what if we do it this way?
- [07:34]
Jim Mann
Yeah.
- [07:35]
Scott Hamilton
And it worked, you know, 27 years of survivorship. And they told me, because the chemo, you know, 20 years, you know, long effects. Probably things will start to maybe not work so good, but I'm. I mean, I'm like, stronger than I've ever been, you know, physically, you know, maybe not in the legs, but I have pecs for the first time in my life. I've never had them before. And it's because I. I asked my body to do something.
- [08:01]
Jim Mann
I noticed that when I came and it responded. There you go.
- [08:03]
Scott Hamilton
Yeah, I'm, like, physically intimidating now. Right. But it's that. It's like we ask our bodies to do things and our bodies will respond.
- [08:10]
Jim Mann
Yeah.
- [08:10]
Scott Hamilton
Like, when I start training for a competition in May, it looks way different than it does in January when. When the competitions happen. It takes time to build and to grow and to ignite quality and all those. And physical conditioning, it just takes time. And if we just roll up our tent, don't do a thing, just say, I'm not really feeling it today, then you're really allowing your body to diminish on that day and not just get stronger. And so when I got the third brain tumor diagnosis, they're giving me a surgical and a medical option. And everything in my spirit said, get strong. And so they said, what do you want to do? I go, I'm going to go home and I'm going to get strong. And they go, what does that look like? And I go, I have no idea. But that's all my body would let me do. That's all my mind, that's all my heart, that's all my spirit would let me do is just, no, go home and get strong. Just get strong. And so I got strong physically, I got strong emotionally, I got stronger intellectually, and I got stronger spiritually. And, you know, each day I spend in the Word, I just find something that just, wow, that's. That's. That's something remarkable that everybody needs to know. You know, why didn't I know that? I've been. I've been following the Lord for, you know, since the last 20 something years. And it's like, I didn't see that before because the Word is alive. And the Word is, you know, it touches us, but we need to spend time in the Word. But it touches us in a way or it inspires us in a way, unexpectedly. I've read that passage 15 times. Why is it hitting me different today? And it's all that, right? So, you know, we've been given so much, you know, physically, emotionally, electrically, and spiritually. We just got to tap into that in order to live Our best lives.
- [10:15]
Jim Mann
Right. And you have, obviously, such a huge platform being known around the world. I just mentioned your name to somebody who wasn't even alive when you were in the Olympics.
- [10:24]
Scott Hamilton
Oh, wow.
- [10:25]
Jim Mann
And they go, oh, is that the guy with the backflip?
- [10:28]
Scott Hamilton
Thank goodness for YouTube. Right?
- [10:29]
Jim Mann
Yeah.
- [10:30]
Scott Hamilton
So. But it's that. It's like, you know, why? And this is something, you know, I meet a lot of really cool people, and I've. I've gotten a nice friend. You know, like, hockey fights cancer. Gary Bettman, the commissioner of the NHL. I've spent a lot of time with him on and off, and he just. We were having lunch one time, and he always likes to interview people he's sitting with because he was an old radio guy that, you know. And he goes, can I ask you a question? And I go, sure. And he goes, there's been a lot of people at one Olympics. And I go, yeah, yeah. I mean, every Olympics, there's a lot of people winning the Olympics. And he goes, but you, like, now, it's 40 years ago. Why? How have you, like, maintained familiarity? A lot of. A lot of people won the Olympics, and nobody. Nobody couldn't pick them out of the lineup. You know? Why you. And I just. I didn't know what to say. I just. And the only thing I could think of, I go, people are kind to me. I go, people like. You know, they like me. And he goes, wow, that's a superpower. Likability. And I go, well, I mean, it's not like something I try to dredge up, you know, Sincerity is not something you dredge up. But it's like, I try to be kind. I try to be considerate, thoughtful, you know?
- [11:44]
Jim Mann
Well, I would. I would say, as an observer that, you know, you always played to the crowd. You were like your personality just shot out of the crowd, rather than you're just there performing.
- [11:53]
Scott Hamilton
I mean, they did pay to get in.
- [11:55]
Jim Mann
Yeah.
- [11:55]
Scott Hamilton
The least I could do is honor that.
- [11:57]
Jim Mann
Exactly. But not everybody does that.
- [11:59]
Scott Hamilton
Oh, it's fun. It's really fun.
- [12:01]
Jim Mann
You enjoyed yourself?
- [12:02]
Scott Hamilton
Oh, I had a blast. It was so fun just to try to figure out new ways of igniting an audience. And it's funny. I have this I win story when I. When I first turned pro. It's like the president of Ice Capade signed me kind of holding his nose. We. We were really great friends, and we built a really. A huge level of respect for each other. But anyway, at the time, he's like, you know, you just. You're just going to Party. You think the work's done and you're just going to miss shows. And we're going to have three fun tickets. It's a nightmare. We had to sign you. And it's like, no, no, no. I'll be the best employee you ever had. So I'd look out at the crowd and I'd see these men sitting in the front row, and they would be like, looking around, kind of like, oh, man, I hope nobody sees me here. Or they'd be checking their watch. It's like, oh, man, when's this going to end? You know, I just want to go home. And I realized, I go, these men are so underserved. If I could get that guy on his feet, I could skate forever. And so it was like, okay, that's my. Every time I come up with a new routine or I come up with a new idea, it's to get that guy on his feet. So it was funny. The other day, I was at this event for cares, and this guy came up and he goes, hey. He goes, still doing backflip. And I was like, oh, no, it's only in my head. And I go, I gotta tell you something. This is what happens to me every time. I go, I fly out of town. I fly southwest usually, and I meet a lot of people and a guy will come up and they go, yeah, skater guy. I go, yes, sir. And he goes, I don't, I don't watch skating. I, I, I'm a football, kind of big football fan. And, you know, I like baseball, too. And I go, yeah, me too. I like all those sports. And he goes, hey, can I get my wife? Because she's like, I know she'd love to meet you. And I go, absolutely. So he goes, gets his wife, and she comes back and he goes, honey, look who's here. And she looks at me and she has absolutely no idea who I am. And it's like, I win. I got that guy. I got that guy that likes skating. I got that guy to like skating. And so it's like, it's like that. It's like, how do we, how do we invite everybody to the party? And it's by being intentional, and it's by looking them, engaging the audience, and trying to predict, you know, what they've never seen before that would be really fun for them and to try to create that. And, and so it gave me a 20 year professional career.
- [14:20]
Jim Mann
Wow.
- [14:21]
Scott Hamilton
From first steps to Olympic gold was 16.
- [14:23]
Jim Mann
Wow.
- [14:24]
Scott Hamilton
And then 20 years of, you know, ice shows and competitions and broadcasting and it's just been extraordinary.
- [14:32]
Jim Mann
Yeah, I would. I mean, I would watch figure skating, and I'd be nervous all the time. I'd just get all intense, like, they're gonna fall. Until you came on. I'm like, you're just a guy having fun. If he fell, he'll just roll with it. Which you did. Yeah, I relaxed when you skated.
- [14:48]
Scott Hamilton
Yeah.
- [14:49]
Jim Mann
So there you go. I stood up.
- [14:50]
Scott Hamilton
Well, I mean, I've only fallen on the ice. Estimated 41,600 times.
- [14:54]
Jim Mann
Yeah. Yeah. And ice is hard.
- [14:56]
Scott Hamilton
Well, it is hard, but, you know, it's like. But when you get up 41,600 times, the next fall has very little meaning, you know, And I think that's kind of the metaphor for all of this. You know, you're going to get knocked down. It's. You're just going to get up. You're just good at it. Well, I mean, it's like you're going to, like, for everybody listening, it's like you're gonna. You're gonna get knocked down, you're gonna fall down, you're gonna have some sort of, like, knocked off your feet at some point in your life. It's just gonna happen. I'm not. I'm not projecting or wishing that on anybody, but it's just life. Right.
- [15:27]
Jim Mann
Right.
- [15:28]
Scott Hamilton
It's how you get up. It's how you get up.
- [15:32]
Jim Mann
Well, that was what I was going to ask you to talk about right now as we close this puppy out, because, you know, there are people listening, that they're listening because they just got a diagnosis and they're scared to death. Life is over in their minds. And. And some of them have doctors who are just like, sorry, but you guys, six months, so, you know, that messes with your mind.
- [15:52]
Scott Hamilton
Why is it always six months? It's always six months. Every time. It's. I guess it's the best guess. It's like, you know, you don't know. We don't know.
- [16:00]
Jim Mann
So how. What would you say to encourage them right now?
- [16:02]
Scott Hamilton
I'd say do your homework. I don't believe in second opinions. I believe in seventh opinions. And it goes back to Murphy's Law. You know, where you stand depends on where you sit, you know? Yeah, it's the old Reagan trust but verify. And it's really getting a knowledge of your condition that. Where you can make the best possible choice for, you know, and give yourself the best chance of surviving. And sometimes it may not be what you want to do. Other times it's like, well, here's an opportunity to try something else, you know, so there's, you know, it's. I said it to an oncologist one time and I thought I offended him. He goes, no, that's so smart, because cancer is changing every day. So if you're sitting across from the desk from a surgeon, you're probably going to get cut. If you're sitting across the desk from a hemonk, you're probably going to get chemo. If you're sitting across the desk for radiation, oncologist, probably going to get radiated. But it's, it's understanding what is the best choice for you, to give you your life back and then the best quality of your life, you know, post cancer. Because that's where you got to think. You got to think, okay, once I'm through this, what's my life going to look like? And I got. I've got great, beautiful, gorgeous scars. Like, they're, they're stunning and they're beautiful, and they're badges of honor because it says, look how, look how resilient, you know, the Lord has made us. And that's the whole idea is just understand your condition and then make, make choices based on that, on everything you've learned. You know, if you're just going to say, I'm not doing that, I'm not doing that. I'm just not going to do that. And it's like, I spend so much of my life now trying to get rid of chemotherapy, and I'm here because of it. I'm not a hypocrite. I just know there's a better way. So I got to keep working towards it, right? And that's the same with everybody out there. It's like, what's state of the art? What, where, what, what, you know? And, and Dr. Toby Cosgrove told me something when at the aneurysm issue in 2010, he said, he goes, there's really good doctors out there that do miraculous things. And then there are six a day guys. All you really want is a six a day guy. Find out who the best guy is to treat you, and then listen to that person and respond in a way that's not about, more or less denial. It's about, here's your best chance of living your best and longest life and whatever that is. And again, it could be anything. It could be vitamins, it could be high pH water. It could be eliminating sugar from your diet or going keto. It could be a lot of things. Or it could just be that maybe going through chemotherapy for three Months. Or trying this new immunotherapy. You know, medication might. Or the course of treatment. Or maybe it is just purely a lumpectomy, a surgery, just get it out, you know, or maybe it's this new type of thing that we're doing, you know, endoscopically. Or maybe it's, you know, but you don't know until you spend the time to find out.
- [19:04]
Jim Mann
Right.
- [19:04]
Scott Hamilton
And all that information exists. You just have to. You have to spend some time to.
- [19:09]
Jim Mann
Get growing all the time.
- [19:10]
Scott Hamilton
Growing all the time. And almost oppressively. Right. But, you know, there are centers of excellence out there for each individual form of cancer. And some are unexpected. Really, really there. Yeah, there. And, you know, there are places that, you know, really are. Their, their. Their whole mission is to just change the way we're treated for cancer forever and for the better. A lot of great cancer centers out there. And, and. But I do think that, you know, we just have to listen to our hearts and our spirit and we have to educate ourselves. You know, it's physical, emotional, actual, spiritual. It's got to approach everything with those four qualities. And if you do, that's the best chance you have of living a long and quality life.
- [20:02]
Jim Mann
Like you said, just get stronger in every area. Because, you know, for some reason, your body allowed cancer to grow. Like you said. I mean, your body's supposed to take care of these things. But something was lacking somewhere which caused it to grow. Which, you know, it could be total stress, you're eating garbage, or.
- [20:21]
Scott Hamilton
Well, why is it that in this country, you know, we're eating foods that are illegal almost everywhere else? It's like, how's that even possible? And now who do I trust? Yeah, you know, it's like, no, you can't have that chemical in that food. What makes it look pretty? Well, I don't care. It's just, you know, it's like, I got a pineapple for my wife this morning. I said, you better eat that today because it's not going to be pretty tomorrow. It's just like, okay, let's do the right thing. You know, drink lots of water and make sure it's good, clean, healthy water. I mean, the most important thing I do in. In our home is to make sure. And my wife is very, very, very amazing. She's the one that really created this eco, like, center for our house is like, we're only drinking filtered and treated water filter treated in a way. Like it can be high ph, or it can be acidic, or it can be just, you know, natural, but it's filtered. There's nothing in it that's going to be harmful to our bodies. It's pure water. And, and it's like that's an investment I'll make no matter what, first and foremost because it's so important. It's so important what we put in our bodies and, and how we live our lives.
- [21:35]
Jim Mann
So how do people get a hold of you? Obviously take it to the CARES.
- [21:38]
Scott Hamilton
Yeah, CARES. ScottCares.org we are doing a lot of really, really cool things. We've in our, I guess it's coming up on 10 years since we started this foundation, but it is that it's, you know, join us. You know, we're really trying to, you know, the CARE stands for the Cancer alliance for Research, Education and Survivorship. So we've handled the survivorship and the education in really cool ways. The research is what we're focused on now. But the a, the alliance is something that we just, I want to wear that out, that letter out, you know. And we work, you know, with other cancer foundations and we help them and they help us and we, we're a collaborative organization. Silos don't work in cancer. They, you know, for somebody to say, you can't see my work, I'm going to be, I'm, this is mine to do. And they're missing out on this collaborative thing. We did this, this study for metastatic melanoma and all these other researchers saw the promise of it and they wanted to come on board and be a part of this research. And now it's in clinical trial.
- [22:47]
Jim Mann
Wow.
- [22:48]
Scott Hamilton
The disease that killed my mom is now in clinical trial.
- [22:50]
Jim Mann
That's huge.
- [22:51]
Scott Hamilton
So it's huge. And it's like, okay, I pray that they're on the right track and I pray that this research and this clinical trial goes the next phase and next phase and next phase and becomes standard of care. Wouldn't that be amazing? And then there won't be some 18 year old boy out there burying his mom and missing out on when he needs her the most, you know. And so yeah, come join us. ScottCares.org, we have a 1984 campaign as the year I won my goal, but $19.84 a month and you can support us. And we've done 88 partnerships since we started. Eight's my number. And we're going to continue on and we just really, truly feel like we can change the world for the better and forever.
- [23:38]
Jim Mann
Yeah. Well, it sounds great. Scott. Thanks for doing this.
- [23:41]
Scott Hamilton
No, my pleasure. Thank you.
- [23:43]
Jim Mann
And I Just love your office.
- [23:45]
Scott Hamilton
Fun. I don't do any. Any. Any. Any kind of memorabilia at home ever. That's all here or it's in my office at the rink. I don't. I won't do that to my kids. You know, it's like, nah. Yeah, that's right. Now I want. I'm your dad. I'm not. You know, this other thing. Right. So we do a lot of stuff here, and it's fun to kind of relive these memories. And there's a lot of fun things in here that, you know, it's like my first international competitions over there. And then, you know, I carried the flame into Salt Lake City Olympics with Peggy Fleming. And then a gentleman who was a professor at Bowling Green State University grabbed a hunk of snow from the ice at the Zetrons in Sarajevo and put it into a bottle. So I'd always have the water of the ice that I skated on. And there's just really cool things. It reminds me of, like, I don't really, truly remember everything about that guy, but I think, you know, it was fun, and I was able to touch some lives, you know, just all the skaters that I got to tour with and compete against and compete with on the 40th anniversary. Brian Orster, the silver medalist, and Joe Sobocik, the bronze medalist, we were all together in New York, really, on the night, because we couldn't wait to be back together.
- [25:03]
Jim Mann
And who remembers them? We all remember you.
- [25:06]
Scott Hamilton
No. Brian Orser has had three Olympic champions as a coach. Wow. Yeah, he's. He's legit, and he's just the best guy ever. And Jose Bobcik, again, he was. He was younger than us, and he was always following us around. And when we got to stand on the podium together in Sarajevo, it was something that, you know, we knew that we'd always, always be friends, and we would always want to be together. And. And at night, I go, hey, you guys want to meet New York and celebrate together? And they go, yeah. So Brian flew in from. From Asia. I think he, you know, I don't know. He had some weird flight thing where he was able to get in just in time, and we laughed for two days. It was so much fun. But that's life. That's what we've. That's what we want to do. We want to live our days of our days fully and. And enjoy.
- [25:53]
Jim Mann
I think you're doing a good job trying.
- [25:56]
Scott Hamilton
I'm still a work in progress in many respects. In almost all respects.
- [26:01]
Jim Mann
Yeah. Are we all though, until we're gone.
- [26:03]
Scott Hamilton
Until we're gone. But, you know, in my closet I have a frame thing and it's just the nine fruits of the spirit. I figure if I can live in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness and self control every single day, yeah, the rest of my days are going to be pretty good.
- [26:19]
Jim Mann
You know, funny you said that because I was telling you earlier about my cousin who passed away that was diagnosed same time I was. I'm thinking, man, I'm still here. And I had a stage four. He had a stage less than one. But then the, the pastor went through the fruits of the spirit like that and he goes, who does that describe? And it was my cousin to the T. He was like every one of those things. I'm like, well, you know, he served his purpose here and he's. He's now in a better place. Apparently. I've been dragging my feet, so I need to get it together.
- [26:54]
Scott Hamilton
But I mean, it just, it really does make a difference if you start to feel like that, that, that spirit of, I don't know, just negativity or antagonism or, you know, just frustration. It's like, oh, oh, I see you. Get out, just get out. And it's not easy. Sometimes I keep catching myself. Like, the more I live in joy, the more I live in peace, the more I live in love. I just, I just feel sometimes I got a target on my back and I just gotta keep fighting them off.
- [27:27]
Jim Mann
Yeah. Well, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
- [27:30]
Scott Hamilton
My pleasure. Saving the edit, will you?
- [27:32]
Jim Mann
Okay.
- [27:33]
Podcast Host
You've been listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast, a part of the Healing Strong Organization organization. We hope you found encouragement in this episode as well as the confidence to take control of your healing journey, knowing that God will guide you on this path. Healing Strong is a nonprofit organization whose mission is to connect, support and educate individuals facing cancer and other diseases through strategies that help to rebuild the body, renew the soul, and refresh the spirit. It costs nothing to be a part of a local or online group. You can do that by going to our website@healingstrong.org and finding a group near you or an online group or start your own, your choice. While you're there, take a look around at all the free resources. Though the resources and groups are free, we encourage you to join our membership program at $25 or $75 a month. This helps us to be able to reach more people with hope and encouragement, and that also comes with some extra perks as well, so check it out. If you enjoyed this podcast, please give us a five star rating. Leave an encouraging comment and help us spread the word. We'll see you next week with another story on the I Am Healing Strong podcast.