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128: Empty Tanks and New Diagnoses: Why Emotional Health Is Non-Negotiable | Ivelisse Page
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- [00:00]
Ivelisse Paige
One of the first things they did is they asked me, what do you typically do on a daily basis for prayer, for time with the Lord? And I shared with them. And they're like, okay, I want you to put all that to the side. I'm like, what? They're like, no, I want you to experience the Lord in a different way with childlike faith. And so I did things like go for a walk without my phone, without any technology. What do you hear? What do you see? What do you smell? And instead of journaling like you normally do, I want you to draw. I want you to skip for some of that walk. And I'm like, skip. People are thinking I'm crazy. And I did. And I would start laughing hysterically, crying, because people probably think I look ridiculous. But it brought that joy of a kid back to my life. And again, I saw things that I wasn't seeing. I was missing. I was experiencing his presence in such a personal way, and it was just so beautiful.
- [01:03]
Healing Strong Announcer
You're listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast, a part of the Healing Strong organization, the number one network of holistic cancer support groups in the world. Each week we bring you stories of hope, real stories that will encourage you as you navigate your way on your own journey to health. Now here's your host, stage four cancer thriver Jim Mann.
- [01:29]
Jim Mann
On today's episode, I got me a big fish. She is the executive director and co founder of Believe Big. Of course, we're talking about Ivelisse. Paige. How are you?
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Ivelisse Paige
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me on.
- [01:43]
Jim Mann
You ever been caught a big fish before?
- [01:45]
Ivelisse Paige
I have not, but I love it.
- [01:48]
Jim Mann
We talked to you. It's been three years. Back in 22, I believe it is.
- [01:53]
Ivelisse Paige
And.
- [01:54]
Jim Mann
And it was a great episode. Of course, Your episode number 15, in case people listening want to go back and find out part one. But right now, we're just going to have you catch us up because you're doing big things. So much bigger than I'm doing. I'm doing laundry right now. That's about as big as I go. I do a podcast that's a little bit bigger than laundry, right?
- [02:15]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes. And you're impacting a lot of people. We love Healing Strong. We love partnering with you all. You are just such an asset to so many patients that we work with and we hear it all the time. So, you know, never minimize the impact that you can make and what God can use you for, for his purposes, for sure.
- [02:35]
Jim Mann
Thank you for that plug. That's what I was fishing for. I know after I spoke to you, you were going on sabbatical after that, but then your life kind of changed again. Catch us up on that.
- [02:48]
Ivelisse Paige
Yeah. So, you know, in this side of ministry, we can overwork ourselves, and especially if you have a heart to help others. And sometimes we. We put ourselves to the side. And I learned the hard way that I was. I went. Reached a point of burnout. I was overworking. I didn't have clear boundaries around my time. And I got to the point where someone would ask me, ivelisse, can you? And I would tear up and freeze up. And when that happened, when I was speaking to my husband, he had been in ministry for 20 years at that point. And he's like, you need a sabbatical. And I'm like, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm just having a hard day. And he said, no, that response requires a sabbatical. And after I thought about it for a moment, I'm like, you know, you're right. Maybe at the end of the summer, I will do that. I'm a planner, so I like to have all my ducks in a row and set, you know, set straight so everything's organized. And he said, no, you don't have the summer. You need to do it right now. And I say, in two weeks. So I was like, wow. Okay. So we talked to our board and our staff, and we just have an amazing team that absolutely, we're here for you. Do what you need to do, and we will take care of the rest. And I was so grateful for that, because during that time, when I hit burnout, I also got the help of a spiritual director through soul shepherding that actually walks individuals through this time of sabbatical in a really great way. To heal your soul. So many times, we know you need less stress. You need to not work as much. And how do we practically do that? And so by hiring them, they really honestly healed my soul. They're a Christian organization that really helps people walk through difficulties of many different facets and bringing them closer to Jesus and really relying on what they call is Jesus's easy yoke. And that's how we're supposed to live our lives. And many times we put on burdens and we carry things that we're not supposed to be carrying, and that causes stress and overwork in ourselves. And so through the grace of God, what was really amazing is that I reached that August, and I was a completely different person. They had helped me to create rhythms of life, to experience God in different ways. And at the end of that summer, I was starting to have, and continuing to have just some odd symptoms that I felt were a change of life. You know, go. Me being in my 50s, I was like, okay, this is what going through menopause is. And so I was being highly monitored, as I always have been, by my integrative practitioners. Nothing was showing up in my blood work. I, you know, eating, doing all the correct things physically. But what ended up happening was I was diagnosed with stage 1A endometrial cancer. It was not a reoccurrence of my colon cancer. It was a completely new diagnosis. And I say this because I believe our words matter. I had lynch syndrome, which predisposed me to multiple cancers and at an earlier age. And this endometrial cancer, interestingly enough, was caught at the earliest time possible. And I believe that God allowed it so that I could help to encourage people in another area of healing, and that is in emotional health, which I was very depleted in.
- [06:36]
Jim Mann
Wow. Yeah, I had heard about that through my friend's podcast that you were on. Jacqueline Genova.
- [06:42]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes. I love her.
- [06:44]
Jim Mann
Yeah, she was telling me about that. I'm like, what? I just spoken to her a couple months ago and talking about being burned out. It's such a common thing for those of us, even though we believe in God, we know he's our source, but we just feel like he needs our help. You know, it's well meaning, you know, but it. We just get in our own way. And God's like, okay, let me know when you're ready. And. And like, that easy yoke sounds so much better when we're like, okay, I want to team up with you. You guide me and help me not to get ahead of you. And that's so hard for. For all of us, even me, who's not really a driven person, not very organized. I still subconsciously feel like I can do it better than God, even though not consciously. I don't think that. But that's just how our actions go sometimes. And then we burn out and we're like, man, what's wrong? Where are you, God? And he's like, I'm back here waiting you to come back. It's a very common thing.
- [07:41]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes. And. And even Jesus, he always took time to get away, and not because he was weak, but because he was wise. And so anytime he was doing ministry, he would go off to himself to. To pray. And I think that we need to take a lesson from him and really focus in on these times that are heavy in Ministry and then take that time to rest. And some of us don't do that.
- [08:05]
Jim Mann
Yeah, yeah. So what did you do from there once you had that diagnosis? And you probably like, oh my gosh, not again, what's going on?
- [08:15]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes, I, you know, for me, first of all, I was like, and I'm not saying this to be prideful in any way. I don't know many people that take care of their health more than I do. I never miss my supplements. I eat organic, I exercise, I do saunas, I do infrared light. I do PEMF therapy. I mean, you name it, I do it for my health. And what I was realizing through this, what God showed me, is that you can do anything, everything, right? And if your emotional tank is empty or your spiritual tank is empty, it's going to affect your physical health. And, you know, I was shocked because it wasn't even showing on my blood work and the only thing that was showing was cortisol levels and maybe my A1C. But again, I thought it was because of change of life and also the cortisol was because of the stress that I was under. So I didn't realize the impact that that had on my physical health. And it goes back to, again, is we need to be holistic in our healing. We need to take care of our emotional and our spiritual health just as much as we rely on our physical. And then I also truly believe that God has his hands on us. And I'm ashamed to say that I was kind of using all of these physical practices and it became a little G for me that if I do all of these things, then I'm never going to get cancer or a chronic disease. And I think that God was kind of saying really? And really kind of showed me that I'm in his hands and not in the other way around. And by the grace of God, it's never found this early. We found it. And I am so grateful that I didn't have to endure any kind of conventional treatment. Even in the conventional world. Surgery was all that was needed. And I will add a note here because I get asked this question a lot and people say to me, well, Ivelisse, if you're using mistletoe and high, high dose vitamin C and all these things that can heal people, and you were at such an early stage 1A, why did you do the surgery? Why didn't you just do the complete natural route? And I asked all those questions and interestingly enough, when it's endometrial ovarian cancer, they call Them, the silent killers, for a reason. There is no way to really preventively be proactive effectively and catch it earlier than typically, stage two. So people don't realize this doing an endometrial biopsies or even doing internal sonograms and your lab work, when it comes to ovarian or endometrial cancers, they are typically not, can't be seen or be caught until they're already at stage two.
- [11:19]
Jim Mann
Wow.
- [11:20]
Ivelisse Paige
And for me, at my time, where I was at, you know, starting my 50s, I was like, okay, I don't want to have to be being poked and prodded every three months for the rest of my life to make sure that doesn't come back. And so I had the surgery, and that was the best decision for me personally.
- [11:42]
Jim Mann
So you're okay now, obviously.
- [11:44]
Ivelisse Paige
100%. Yep. It's been three years now, and, you know, I count it as another blessing. I really feel that cancer has something to teach all of us, and it's a friend, it's not a foe. And I learned so much, again, through that process of reevaluating my life and using the tools that I learned through my sabbatical to really move forward in strength in this next season of my life.
- [12:12]
Jim Mann
You handle stress a little bit better now.
- [12:14]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes. And I think even just spiritually, I feel like one of the things that they taught us is, you know, so many times we get into a routine. I'm going to read my Bible. I'm going to do my devotion. I'm going to do my prayers. And it becomes so regimented that we don't experience the Lord as we should. And so one of the first things they did is they asked me, what do you typically do on a daily basis for prayer for time with the Lord? And I shared with them, and they're like, okay, I want you to put all that to the side. I'm like, what? They're like, no, I want you to experience the Lord in a different way with childlike faith. And so I did things like go for a walk without my phone, without any technology. What do you hear? What do you see? What do you smell? And instead of journaling like you normally do, I want you to draw. I want you to skip for some of that walk. And I'm like, skip. People are thinking I'm crazy. And I did. And I would start laughing hysterically, crying, because people probably think I look ridiculous. But it brought that joy of a kid back to my life. And again, I saw things that I wasn't seeing. I was missing I was experiencing his presence in such a personal way, and it was just so beautiful.
- [13:36]
Jim Mann
Yeah. At my age, if I'm out there skipping, they might try to find what room I escaped from, so might not do that. But that's funny you said that, because this morning, you know, I get into a regimen. I come to my little office here where I'm sitting, and I listen to a devotion thing and then read my Bible and pray. But this morning, for some reason, I just. I thought, well, guy's not really impressed with, oh, okay, he's sitting down in the morning, he's doing all this stuff because it does get like second nature where you're just not really paying attention to it. And instead I went out and walked. We. We live right next to a really nice looking hospital, but it's got a mild track around it, and then it also goes around a lake and back into the woods. And so I just went back there and found out God's there, for crying out loud. He's there amongst the trees, and it just changes things up. You're not doing things just out of memory. You're actually spending time with God. And he's not impressed with our habits necessarily, but just wanting to be with him and just hang out with him and actually stop talking so he can talk. That's the hard thing for me. I do the nervous talking when things are quiet. He goes, you know, I got stuff to say to you, but you won't shut up. So I tried doing that more, and it works. It works great. Yeah. I hadn't heard the end of it about when you did get the cancer. And I thought, well, I'm assuming it's fine now, but, yeah, it's good to know that it is. Let's go to the mistletoe clinical trial. I'm trying to remember. You were going into phase one, or did you complete phase one?
- [15:15]
Ivelisse Paige
Last time we talked, we completed phase one. Yes.
- [15:19]
Jim Mann
Yes. Johns Hopkins, a tiny little hospital that no one knows about in my hometown. I like to brag again. So you're in phase two, which I was looking at that. That's a huge phase, isn't it? Financially especially?
- [15:36]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes, it really is. You know, we haven't begun yet. We're still finalizing the budget currently, and we're hoping that in this coming year that we'll be able to start enrollment. But I'm not able to talk specifics about the trial until everything's. They say their I's are dotted and the T's are crossed because I have signed an NDA. But I can say that, you know, it will be beginning an enrollment coming up in this coming year.
- [16:08]
Jim Mann
Wow, that's exciting.
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Ivelisse Paige
Yes.
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Jim Mann
It's also probably nerve wracking, wishing it would go faster, right?
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Ivelisse Paige
Oh, I, I every day I, I see some drugs that are fast tracked and things that are being done and said and I, I'm just like, can't misletoby fast tracked. I mean, it's been used for 100 years for cancer treatment. There have been over 100 clinical studies done all over the world. Why are we going through this whole process when there's been so much scientific evidence to prove how effective it is for cancer? So we, but you know what, we just continue to plug ahead, you know, play playing well in the sandbox to make sure that we're doing the things in the right way so that you know, our hope. People ask, why are you spending all this money on this clinical trial when there's so many patients that need help right now? And I said, well, because we are helping the patients of today with all the things that we're doing. But then we also have to look forward into the future. And that future is insurance coverage and that it becomes part of standard of care so that everyone can have access to it and not just those that can gain access or have affordability to have it.
- [17:17]
Jim Mann
The difference is like we have several in my healing strong group that do the mistletoe here in the states, which is crazy. I thought you had to go on the other side of the world to do that. But it's just that insurance won't cover it right now. That's the big difference, right?
- [17:33]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes. And it's not that outrageous. You know, I think one of the things that I love about the mistletoe manufacturer is that they're a nonprofit as well. They really wanted to make this available to most. And so a month's supply of mistletoe can probably range around $250. Where it gets costly is if someone is in the later stage and their physician prescribes them the IV version of mistletoe. And that can be anywhere between $400 to $800 per infusion. So I did not have access to the infusions. And so I at that time and I just did the injectable form of mistletoe and that has and continues to be effective for me.
- [18:18]
Jim Mann
I went through immunotherapy every two weeks and that was $74,000 each time. So mistletoe sounds pretty cheap.
- [18:25]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes, yes.
- [18:28]
Jim Mann
But insurance did cover it. So that was a miracle right there. I didn't have to pay a penny. Is that crazy?
- [18:34]
Ivelisse Paige
That is crazy.
- [18:35]
Jim Mann
That's the first time more money was coming from insurance than from me to them. So that was kind of exciting. I smiled the whole time. Anyway, I want to talk about the Institute of Health. How are things with that?
- [18:48]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes, it's really exciting. You know, I've been really prayerful the last several years. We in what we're doing and how we're doing it. You know, literally, before I moved out here to Colorado, I was sitting in church in the middle of our pastor's sermon, and out of the blue, the Lord says, I want you to build the St. Jude's of integrative Medicine that became then the Bali Big Institute of Health that we're developing. And it was just so exciting to know that God planted that in my heart all those years ago. Again, it's my personality to want it yesterday, but there is so much that goes into this process. And right now, what we're doing is we're building a virtual side of it where we have our network of physicians that can help patients nationwide. We are establishing relationships with oncology, nutritionists, and products that are going to be really helping to people thrive and then move into the wellness space and then eventually the brick and mortar. So we are working on the steps towards the great and bigger vision that God has for it.
- [20:02]
Jim Mann
Kind of feel like David and Goliath, don't you?
- [20:05]
Ivelisse Paige
I really do. Some days, yes. I'm like, lord, it does feel like I'm pushing this huge boulder up this hill. But I again, what I've had to do is just to lay my hands open and say, lord, you know, it's in your time, not mine, and it's going to be the perfect time when you have it. And it's interesting. I'm actually studying right now. The story of Esther. And God's timing was so perfect in every aspect, from her going to see the king to the dreams that he gave King Xerxes to, you know, the time that she invited him for the feast. And God orchestrated all of that. And so much was going on in the background that Esther had no idea. But when the time was right, he gave her the courage to step forward in faith and strength. And so that's what I'm relying on. I'm waiting for the Lord to say, go, this is the time. This is the exact land, the property you need to buy. And we're going to wait for him for that.
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Jim Mann
Wow. I was going to use the Esther, example. Way to go.
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Ivelisse Paige
No way. No way.
- [21:15]
Jim Mann
I read that book. But, yeah, we'll go back to David and Goliath. The good news is that turned out well for David. So a lot of great stories in the Bible where people who are like, are you sure you're picking me for this task? But then again, that's us relying on ourselves, like, we're not good enough. And of course, we're not without God. And it is quite easy to try to get ahead of him. And it's funny to say get ahead of him, but you know what I'm talking about. It's not like we're faster than him, but he's got the perfect timing. He's just waiting for us to submit to Him. And it's so much easier that way. I still am learning these things. I don't think we ever learn it until we get to heaven, but we should get better at it eventually, right?
- [21:56]
Ivelisse Paige
Yeah. And I just even think of the story of Joseph. How many years was he imprisoned? And he even had the dream of the cupbearer. And two years later, he remembered him. But at no point, Joseph just still was grateful and he knew that God was with him. And so, again, his timing is perfect. And then he ended up saving the entire nation. And so I look to those stories when you're feeling discouraged or when you're feeling like God's not moving fast enough and you're saying, no, it's in his time, not mine. And it actually. I don't know if you know the story. Not many people do. But when my father passed away from cancer that summer, I went to a camp and a pastor was praying over us. And he said to me, you are going to play an integral role in finding a cure for cancer.
- [22:54]
Jim Mann
Wow.
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Ivelisse Paige
And I was like, wait a second. I said, I went to all my leaders and my pastor. Did you tell them that My father just passed away from cancer and he was trying to make me feel better. I mean, I was 13 at the time. And I was like, they're like, no, not at all. And we wanted you just to enjoy this time. And I never told anyone about what that pastor had said. And over the years, I just assumed he had gotten me confused with someone else. Because I was a teacher. I became a mom of four. I was homeschooling. And how can a mom who homeschooled and had no medical training make an impact in the world of cancer? And in my first battle with cancer, God brought that back to my mind. And he said, remember that little Girl. Remember that little girl at that camp? It's going to happen. And that was 34 years later, maybe 24 years later. And so again, it reminds me not my time, but his. And we just need to hold on to the promises and the things that he tells us and just to do what we need to do each day.
- [24:07]
Jim Mann
Wow, you're like a little Moses. It's crazy. I mean, how many of us. Not you, of course, obviously you're not. How many of us would give up if we were in those Bible stories, like Moses and Joseph and all that, like, man, this ain't going to happen and we would just give up. I think most of us would do that. But of course, now we read it in the Bible and we're like, it's obvious. It's obvious how it turns out. But they didn't know that at the time.
- [24:30]
Ivelisse Paige
You're right.
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Jim Mann
I think that's called faith or something like that.
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Ivelisse Paige
Yes. Evidence of things not seen.
- [24:37]
Jim Mann
Yeah. And yeah, you're learning. Learning a lot of those in your life, it looks like.
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Ivelisse Paige
I sure am.
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Jim Mann
So you also do the podcast, Believe Big Podcast, right? Is that a weekly thing?
- [24:48]
Ivelisse Paige
It's a bi weekly podcast. The first year was every week. And that was one of the things that we changed. We're in our fourth season now and it was, as you know, a lot of work to put on a podcast. And so we moved it to twice a month so that it could be easily managed by our staff and myself.
- [25:08]
Jim Mann
Yeah, but that's going well.
- [25:10]
Ivelisse Paige
It's going great. I love the fact that we can interview faith leaders from around the world, physicians overcomers, and they can give his hope to those who are feeling hopeless and even prevention. So there's so many topics that we talk about, from infrared saunas to light therapies, that you don't have to have cancer to listen to our podcast. You just have to have a heart to want to be whole physically, emotionally and spiritually.
- [25:40]
Jim Mann
Besides all this stuff, you just sit around and do nothing, right? Oh, yeah, Watch reruns, that kind of stuff. How do you see, obviously, like in five years down the road, you're hoping the institute will be further along and the phases will be further along in the mistletoe trial. But do you see anything else coming about that you've been working on that we should know about or anything?
- [26:06]
Ivelisse Paige
You know, those are actually the big buckets. Those are. You know, it's funny, people say, what's your five year plan? And honestly, I said, I only have a one year plan because so Much changes, and especially in this side of wellness and health. And that I just kind of say this is what I'm, you know, we have to work a plan, we have to have goals, but God can easily change them at any moment. And so for. For us, we have these big dreams and visions like the trial being completed, like the institute being open. But at the same time, our goals really are for one year at a time.
- [26:45]
Jim Mann
So you're just working on patience is what you're doing?
- [26:47]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes, yes, a lot of it.
- [26:51]
Jim Mann
I do have a question for you because, like, in my small group, it's me and all women so weird. Like, guys don't have cancer, but, you know, they're too proud, I guess. I don't know. But it's all women with breast cancer. And then I had melanoma. But we're all still trying, even though Greenville, South Carolina is a pretty healthy place and there's a lot of good doctors. But where do you go to find a really good doctor who sees the big picture?
- [27:19]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes, that's one of the things that we have really worked to vet integrative practitioners that not only know oncology, but that have an additional specialty training in mistletoe therapy. So we have a listing of physicians nationwide and even across the globe that, you know, you can go on our website under resources and click on the tab that says find an integrative practitioner@the believebig.org website and you can find one that's close to you. And if not, we do have patient advocates that are also available to answer questions and to direct you to the resources that you need, including. Including ones that would do telemedicine.
- [28:02]
Jim Mann
That question always seems to come up in our group and we're all like, well, there's somebody over here. They're kind of good, kind of not good, and not trying to put them down, but as far as, you know, seeing the big picture and not just trying to get pharmaceuticals in you. So, yeah, I will direct them to your website. In fact, we might. Do you have videos at your website?
- [28:21]
Ivelisse Paige
We sure do. We have testimonials of patients that have overcome cancer. We have a nutritional webinars as well. One of the aspects that I think people put to the side because of cost. And so we have our food for thought and we have a whole library of different topics that people can listen to. And we have an I have cancer now, what video series that all of this is free. That walk a patient step by step on what to do once you're diagnosed. And so that's also on our website.
- [28:56]
Jim Mann
All right. I might have to use those at my next group meeting.
- [29:00]
Ivelisse Paige
Perfect.
- [29:01]
Jim Mann
Yeah. If you're not going to come and talk personally, we'll just watch the videos. It's been great catching up with you and it sounds like great news and also exciting news, even though you got to wait for it. But that's. That's how God is. He just seems like he's slow sometimes, but he's not. He's perfect in his timing. We're just off. I don't know what it is about us. We just want everything to happen right now and it's just not the way it's supposed to be. Evelys, thank you so much for taking the time and catching us up on that. And don't forget, she was episode 15. So you can go hear the first part of that. And then this is episode something. What is it? We're probably at 120 something. I don't know. But it's a good one. That's all I know. So obviously to get a hold of you, just go to your website@believebig.org you can find all kinds of information about you, right?
- [29:55]
Ivelisse Paige
Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It's been such an honor to catch back up with you all.
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Jim Mann
All right, well, thank you.
- [30:01]
Healing Strong Announcer
You've been listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast, part of the Healing Strong organization. We hope this episode encouraged you and gave you confidence to take charge of your healing journey. Journey Trusting God to guide your path. Healing Strong is a nonprofit dedicated to connecting, supporting and educating individuals facing cancer and other diseases through strategies that rebuild the body, renew the soul, and refresh the spirit. It's free to join a local or online group. Just visit healingstrong.org to find one near you or start your own. While you're there, create a free My HealingStrong account to access all of our free resources to help you live healthier and heal strong. Though our groups and resources are free, we invite you to support our mission through a monthly Hope Givers donation of your choosing. Your generosity helps us reach more people with hope and encouragement. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a five star rating and review to help us spread the word. We'll see you next week with another story on the I Am Healing Strong podcast.