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- [00:00]
A
Seed oils are also known as polyunsaturated oils.
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B
Okay.
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A
And polyunsaturated oils are very, very high in omega 6s. We need omega 6s as we do omega 3s. The ratio should be about 1 to 1 to 4 to 1. 4 omega 6s to 1 omega 3, but no more than that. It is estimated that most of our population is getting something like 15 to 1.
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B
Wow.
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A
Way out of range. What that does is to cause inflammation in the body. And inflammation is at the root of every dis. Ease. So if we're talking about cancer, heart disease, diabetes, fibromyalgia, chronic migraines, on and on it can go. We've got inflammation going on somewhere at the core.
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C
You're listening to the I Am Healing Strong podcast, a part of the Healing Strong organization, the number one network of holistic cancer support groups in the world. Each week we bring you stories of hope, real stories that will encourage you as you navigate your way on your own journey to health. Now here's your host, stage four cancer thriver Jim Mann.
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B
This is my first guest that's been on three times. It must be something important here. We know her as the juice lady, Sheri Kalbaum. How are you doing?
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A
It's a beautiful day, Jim. I'm here in super sunny Arizona having a heat wave all of a sudden in March.
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B
That's terrible.
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A
Yeah, it's no good. But it's going back down. So we're going to be okay.
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B
Yeah, we just had spring and then winter and then spring again. And I think winter's coming a few more days, whatever. But anyway, I like, I miss the winter already, but a good, hearty winter makes for a great spring, doesn't it?
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A
It does, yes.
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B
Yes.
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A
I've been in states where I've gone winter, spring, winter, you know, snow, then. Yeah, the flowers try to bloom, and then it snows and kills them.
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B
And we're always surprised by it, as if it's never happened before, but it happens every year.
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A
Yeah, I hear you.
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B
Oh, well. Well, we're going to talk about a subject that I know. Well, I know a little, very little about it, but I know that something is wrong in the information that we've gotten. In fact, I was telling my wife this morning, I said, yeah, we're going to. We're going to be talking about seed oils. And she goes, are they bad? So, well, we're going to find out. She goes, well, what's. What are they in? And I. So I grabbed. There was a bag of tortilla chips And I looked on it, sure enough, it's in those.
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A
I'm like, it's everywhere. We just can't escape.
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B
That's right. But you have done a lot of research on seed oil, so we're going to just pull all that information out of you until you just can't stand anymore and seated.
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A
So let's go for it.
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B
Okay, good. Well, first of all, why don't you just let us know what exactly is seed oil?
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A
Yeah. So this is a hot topic and very confusing for a lot of people. So what, what are they? Seed oils are originally vegetable oils. That's how they were marketed for decades. In about 2010, they started calling them seed oils because they're made from seeds and. But they've been around since early 1900s in very small amounts. And then after World War II, kind of exploded onto the market when the ships couldn't get through the waters of Southeast Asia because of the war. We had been using in America a lot of coconut oil prior to that and then couldn't get it. So seed oils, then, vegetable oils, really stepped up production. And so early 1950s, they kind of exploded onto the market.
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B
Were they healthy at that time?
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A
They've never been healthy.
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B
Never.
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A
They were never about health. They were about go figure. Listen, I should have a drum roll. Economics and waste management. So what happened? And this was before the war, we had mounds of cotton seeds piling up and rotting, and it was like, waste management. What do we do with all these seeds? Powers that be were asking. And so let's make them into oil. It was a smelly, dark oil that they used on machinery then. And during the World War II, they used them on aircraft and ships. And then they decided, we need to clean this oil up so we can get it out to the public and use it for cooking. So with super refining, with five or six steps of processing from high, high heat at about 500 degrees or above, with strong and toxic caustic chemicals like hexane de gumming agents, and on and on it goes. We ended up with Claire oil that looked nice and had no taste and no smell and could sit on the shelf forever, didn't need refrigeration, and it rolled out to the public. And they knew they had to call it something that America would accept as healthy. So they called it vegetable oil because who doesn't want vegetables in your life? Right? And so there is the origin of that oil. And it had zero to do with health. It had everything to do with economics, waste management and convenience for manufacturers.
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B
It's hard to believe that the grownups are not looking out for us. I always thought they were healthy because of the wording vegetable, that's positive. And oil supposed to be good for you, but yeah. And then when you do read ingredients, they are pretty much everywhere, aren't they?
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A
They are everywhere. And this is my goal, My passion is to make America aware, to read labels like you did this morning, Jim, let's look at these tortilla chips. What oil are they cooked in? Snack foods, baked goods. So you go to your health food store and you want a box of crackers, right? You're getting gluten free. Now this is what I've done, getting gluten free. And you're there with your magnifying glass and every box nearly that you pick up has a seed oil in it. And it's in the health food store and it's billed as healthy and it's even maybe billed as organic, maybe not and gluten free. But there's the seed oil and I'm there with my little magnifying glass thing. Darn it. But all sorts of desserts, packaged items, frozen foods. Check the label. You know, a lot of people want quick and fast. And they're, they're buying big boxes of all sorts of stuff frozen. It's their fast food restaurants. Most restaurants in the United States are using seed oils. Many of them are using Crisco or a hydrogenated solid fat like that to make their food look shiny. So it's brushed on the food at the end. And that's when it comes out to us looking sizzling, delicious, you know, but bad stuff all over it.
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B
I remember that Crisco oil growing up, my mom always used that grease in the pans and stuff like that. Well, mom's doing it. Must be healthy.
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A
And that's what I found in my research. The government told us it was healthy. Our doctors told us it was healthy, scientists told us it was healthy. And our grandmothers baked their beautiful flaky pie crust, as mine did with Crisco. Why couldn't it be good?
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B
Do we just not eat? How do we get around that? Or is. Let me back up a little. Is there a movement now with the government starting to make a little change about making America healthy again? Is there any kind of movement to get rid of the seed oils, replace them with something healthy?
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A
There's a lot of movement in that. Not that the government is necessarily going right after it and addressing it. RFK Jr. Our HHS Secretary, talked a lot about it, certainly in his Campaigning. And in the early days of his office, when they did the new food pyramid and it rolled out in January, they had animal products, clean animal products and healthy fats as a foundation. But they didn't go into defining this so much about seed oils. But there is a ton of conversation. This is like a hot topic on social media, TikTok and Instagram, a lot of people are talking about this. And so it's like public awareness. And to me, that's better than the government in one sense, because when it starts moving at grassroots level and it's lots of podcasters and influencers talking about it now, we've got something going. And especially Gen Z's and millennials are far more interested than other generations. Not that we aren't, but it's a, I, I think a good thing that there's a ground swell kind of moving in awareness. So when manufacturers and restaurants and fast food places get the message, they're starting to have conversations internally. Because I've talked with a few in management of some very big fast food chains, and it is a conversation that they're having to move those big ships in a new direction. They have to plan like two years in advance. Numbers of them have told me. And then to get supplies. Like if, if you're going to change cooking your French fries and beef tallow, which Steak and Shake did. But they're a smaller chain, right. How are you going to get supply enough for a huge fast food restaurant chain? It's just very, very difficult, I was told. So this ship is going to move slowly, but I see it to be not maybe creating necessity for these restaurants and companies and manufacturers, because this is what the public is going to start wanting and demanding. So that's how we're going to change things.
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B
Therein also lies the money thing. If these companies want to make money, now that people know these kind of things as we talk about it, it's always, unfortunately about the money. But if we can get the money going in the right direction, it works out well.
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A
It works. And you know what the bottom line is, if it's worth it for them because they'll make more money in the end, they'll attract a lot of additional customers, then it's worth the expenditure to go in a new direction. And they could go in a couple of different directions. Avocado oil has a very high smoke point. It's a very good oil. It's not a seed oil, it's a fruit oil. That and beef tallow both have about the same high smoke point. And so restaurants could go in that direction. Avocado or oil or beef tallow. And I noticed when I was at the health food store the other day, there was a bag of chips proudly labeling cooked in beef tallow. And I thought, okay, we've got to try those. And why beef tallow? I mean, a lot of people, I say that to sort of cringe, like, oh, I thought that stuff was going to kill me, you know, terrible for my heart. It's actually what our grandparents and great grandparents used. That and lard always, they used it for generations. And suddenly we were told, it's not heart healthy. It's going to give you a heart attack. But it hadn't before. You know, we lost common sense. That flew out the window as economics took over.
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B
I was reading about how seed oils have connection with dementia and Alzheimer's, which for me, I watched my mom, like her last six years of her life battle dementia. She was very pleasant with it. But still, you don't like to see your own mom just turn into a different person. No, but I thought, oh, my goodness, how can I stop that from happening? You know, because I don't know that it's genetic, but our habits and, you know, the way we eat, what we eat, medications, she was always on blood pressure medicines and cholesterol. And of course, that's what the doctors want to give me. And I basically, as soon as I found out about that, I just stopped that. I said, I'd rather. I'd rather go. You know, if it takes me out, I'd rather do it that way than go by dementia or whatever. And plus, I don't really believe things. I don't believe anything anymore.
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A
No, we have to be our own health advocate and our own researchers, because we're not being told the truth in most places.
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B
Right. So with the dementia stuff, is that the cholesterol connection or.
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A
There are many things, but there is research now that we're talking about seed oils. There is research linking seed oils to Alzheimer's and dementia. And so being bombarded with it being in everything, salad dressings, mayonnaise, snack foods, on and on it goes. Everything we eat in the past just about has had it. So we have to be good detectives and make good choices. But I call seed oils the silent killer or the silent destroyer of our health, because it's tasteless, it's odorless, and we were told it was good. And so we're just eating a lot of this seed oil stuff, and it is affecting our health in so many, many, many ways. With dementia and Alzheimer's, there's a lot linked to that. Not just seed oils, sugar, corn syrups, as you were mentioning, prescription drugs, heavy metals from mercury and aluminum. Those are the two big ones. And the toxins in our air, soil and water that we don't even know are there. There are so many things. That's why it's so important to get tons of vegetables, juices. I talked about juices before on the other shows. We've done things that naturally, gently, daily detox our bodies. And one thing I read about dementia and Alzheimer's that I thought was important is sleeping deeply and sleeping well, because that's when your brain cleanses. If you're getting eight hours, hopefully or close to that, it's going to use all of that time for cleansing the brain. My husband's stepfather got Alzheimer's and suffered with it for over a decade. He did not sleep well. He always was complaining up in the middle of the night and with headaches and he would drink coffee in the middle of the night because he couldn't sleep. And it wasn't surprising to me that he came down with Alzheimer's. So sleeping well, sleeping deeply so our brain can cleanse is really, really important. And then getting all those antioxidants daily in our diet is very important to help with that cleansing process. And then removing as much as we can of the stuff that is toxic that harms the brain and collects. And what happens is the synapses, the connection points in our brain get all clogged up, right? It's like coated with, I just call it gunk. And that is what is stopping the process, the connections that should be made in the brain where things connect and link up and we can think straight and remember our middle name, where we put our keys. But it's so important to cleanse the brain and we don't think about that too much.
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B
And there's no way of getting away all the toxins because, I mean, we're just surrounded more and more all the time. It's pretty much just, you got to make the right choices for where you are as you can do it. We'll never get rid of our phones and they're toxic with all that radiation and whatnot. But you can make smart choices like not wear the wireless earbuds or not hold the phone up to your ear, that kind of stuff. Those are the only kind of adjustments we can do anymore. But seed oils, you're almost blindsided by that because there for a while, no one, no one thought seed Oils, that's fine. And in fact, I just went into my, my cabinets in the kitchen and there's there was a, like a bottle and a half of some kind of cedo. I don't know, but I just took it out of there and threw in the trash. And because my one, my youngest son likes to cook, and he'll just go by, you know, the instructions and he gets all these different oils because they all call for some kind of seed oil. I said, I don't think that's healthy. He goes, well, that's what it's called for.
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A
Well, you know, and that's why we ended up like this, because when they started making the changes and rolling out slick marketing campaigns was what rolled out in the early 50s, then they contracted with chefs, recipe creators, to write cookbooks all around the seed oils so that everywhere you turned, seed oils were being promoted. So now we need a lot of books out there that only recommend the good oils and fats. But I should just run through a list right now, because what oils are we talking about that are good and what are we talking about that's bad? So let me just first go over the list of the ones that we shouldn't have.
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B
Okay.
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A
Canola. Canola is also a big GMO crop. It's rapeseed. It's a big crop in Canada, and it was billed as heart healthy. For years and years and years, people proudly in restaurants displayed on their menu, oh, we cook with only canola oil. Oh, it's just horrible. And safflower. Sunflower corn, corn, soy. Grapeseed oil was another one that just was highly promoted as good for a long time, but it, it isn't. And soy oil, those are the top eight. Some places you'll see them referred to as the hateful eight. And then there's a couple more. Peanut oil isn't a good one. So what are the good ones? So they are the fruit and nut oils. And there's a good seed oil. Sesame seed oil is good. Get cold pressed. For all of these, you want extra virgin like olive oil. And coconut oil is great. Avocado oil, if you can get cold pressed, is the best. Macadamia nut oil and almond oil, those are your really good oils. They have different smoke points, but as I said, avocado is, is the highest smoke point. So for high heat cooking, it would be really, really good. And then there are good seed oils, but you don't cook with them. You use them in cold things like in a smoothie or drizzling or you Just take a tablespoon like flaxseed oil and hemp seed oil. Those are very, very rich in omega 3s and so good for you. But they are very heat sensitive and break down to toxic byproducts if they're heated. So we don't want to heat those. But there's a lot of choices. You know, if your son has got a recipe and it says, oh, a cup of canola oil, he can easily substitute coconut, avocado, almond, macadamia nut, or olive oil. In most places you can substitute.
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B
Okay, where does a black seed oil fit in? Was that one of the cold things or is that.
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A
It's a cold one. Yes. Like evening primrose oil as well. Black seed oil, yes. You would use that cold. Most people just either drizzle it on something or take a tablespoon of it or maybe put it in a smoothie would work as well. But you want that cold.
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B
Okay. Can you explain like the Omega 3s versus the Omega 6s?
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A
Yes. And that is one of the reasons that we don't want circles. Seed oils are also known as polyunsaturated oils. And polyunsaturated oils are very, very high in omega 6s. We need omega 6s as we do omega 3s. The ratio should be about 1 to 1 to 4 to 1. 4 omega 6s to 1 omega 3, but no more than that. It is estimated that most of our population is getting something like 15 to 1.
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B
Wow.
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A
Way out of range. What that does is to cause inflammation in the body. And inflammation is at the root of every dis ease. So if we're talking about cancer, heart disease, diabetes, fibromyalgia, chronic migraines, on and on it can go. We've got inflammation going on somewhere at the core. And seed oils are big, big contributors because there's several reasons. But we're on the omegas now because of their high omega 6 content. And there's so much of them in everything we eat. You know, from our salad dressings, there are only a few. I'll go over some of the things that you can have in a bit. But there's so few things. You really have to read labels. You have to know where to shop, you have to know what you're looking for. Otherwise we're so bombarded that we're getting at least 15 to 1 ratio, to some estimate, 17 to 1. Some people. There are people who eat out almost every meal. You know, they're going through the drive through for breakfast and they're eating out a Lunch somewhere, maybe a fast food or whatever. And they're getting a lot of Omega 6s because of that. So what we need to do is get those seed oils out of our diet, begin to bring balance. And so that's where taking a good omega 3 oil, either flaxseed oil, hemp seed oil, black seed oil, one of the oils is very, very rich in omega 3s, begin to bring our omega 3s up, bring our omega 6s down, and we're going to put out some of that fire that's going on in our body. And that inflammation truly is a fire going on. So I bought a magnifying glass. I take it with me everywhere.
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B
Yeah, I do notice those labels are getting smaller. Or is that just me?
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A
It's not just you. They're getting smaller and smaller and now they're getting smarter about it. And they're using white print on a light yellow background. Often it's like, whoa. So I'm running around in the store at a better light with my magnifying. Then I bought a magnifying glass with a light on it, and it's still kind of hard to see. They're getting very smart, trying to outsmart us.
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B
I use my phone, you know, with the camera lens and just, you know, kind of come in on it like that.
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A
That's a good. Yes, very smart. Just expand it.
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B
I thought of it myself after I saw my wife do it. Those of us who, which is all of us, you know, we've been eating all this stuff all along. Not knowing seed oils was bad for you. And we have a lifetime of eating these things. What can you do to start reversing the damage that these seed oils have done?
- [24:54]
A
I'm so glad we're talking about the damage because I want to talk to you about what they do when your body doesn't have enough of the right fats to repair, replace, rejuvenate, whatever words you want to use. Cell membranes, the outer part of our cells, which is composed of a lot of fat, it will use the inferior fats to fill in the gaps and create an inferior cell membrane. When you think about the fat that is around the heart, that the heart draws on in times of stress, if it's inferior fats, the kind that isn't usable, very usable for the body in times of stress, what is that going to do? Well, we know the results of that high stress and people have heart attacks, and there are many reasons for that, but this can be one. So how do we begin to replace that? And of course it's with the good oils and fats. There are some good fats as well, like ghee. That's the oil of butter and beef tallow that I mentioned. Coconut oil is a wonderful oil for really great fats. And of course, the Omega 3s and all of the olive oil is excellent as well, along with avocado and almond and macadamia nut. And sesame oil is very good, too. So as we begin to switch over all of our cooking, we can at least control that, right? We can control everything that we use in our own kitchen. And then we can read labels. And we can also take some good Omega 3 fat each day, whether that's black seed oil, hemp seed oil. Some people like to take fish oil. But we need to get the Omega 3s up in our diet because most people don't get much of that at all. They don't eat hemp seeds. They don't eat flax seeds. They're not eating much cold water, fatty fish. So they're not getting much. Some people get Almost no. No omega 3s in their diet just because of their choices. So if we bring up our omega 3s, we bring down our omega 6s, we bring them into balance. What the body is going to do is start utilizing these good fats to repair cell membranes as needed. And so the faulty fats that were in there are going to start getting replaced bit by bit by bit. And so we're going to start turning our health around in a quiet, kind of silent way. But as we do that, things start to improve. We might notice less inflammation. What does that mean? Less pain. Maybe a disease starts improving. I had a person that I worked with is also a friend who had migraines for years, Couldn't figure out at all what it was. Got the seed oils pretty much out of her diet. The migraines are gone. They've never come back. I had not heard that one before. I thought that was very interesting.
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B
Wow, that's incredible, because I'm, like, overwhelmed with the information now. I'm gonna have to throw out everything in my kitchen. It was canola oil in those chips, by the way. That's the one that was in there. I thought, it's terrible.
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A
It's still used a lot, but you can find now more and more chips, especially at your health food stores, cooked in avocado oil. And then there's that new one. I forget the brand, beef tallow. And I was at Costco the other day, so the big box stores are getting on board. That one is. And they have an avocado mayonnaise.
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B
What?
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A
And I thought, wow, this is a good improvement. And you can get Bragg's salad dressing, either the sesame ginger, or the regular vinaigrette. And it's made with olive oil and the good apple cider vinegar, the raw apple cider vinegar and spices. So there. And Mary's crackers have no seed oils in them. So if you go to a health food store, Mary's has a whole variety of crackers, and the original was the seed crackers. But very good choices. So there are companies getting on board, and there are choices. We just have to be wise shoppers.
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B
Oh, I'm not good at that, but I'm getting better.
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A
You're taking pictures?
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B
Yes, yes. I just. I don't want to go shopping. I don't want to go reading all the time. But you got to do that these days, especially when there's so many things. You don't even know what the words are. At least I don't. That's when you know you're in trouble. When there's so many words, it's like you get paragraphs worth of things.
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A
So that's when you kind of want to steer clear.
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B
Yeah.
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A
The longer that label goes, the more chance you've got a bunch of chemicals in there. You know, Before I move on, I want to talk about one other thing, and that is the heating of the oils and what that does, because this is point number two of what we want to avoid. The seed oils, and here's a little biochemistry. They are designed with double bonds and more than one double bond, and that's where hydrogen and carbons line up. And they have at least two or more double bonds in the polyunsaturated oils, which are the seed oils we're talking about. And what does that mean? That they're volatile. Those double bonds can be broken, split, split very easily. And what does that mean to you? It creates aldehydes and lipid peroxides and all sorts of free radicals that damage cells and damage your body. And so the heating and the treating just in manufacturing these oils, delivers to us a bottle of toxic stuff, and then we heat it, usually even more, because we're making a recipe at home, you know, usually cooking something. So that's why point number two, besides just the Omega 6s, we want to avoid them. They are very volatile. They're not stable oils. Where the fruit and nut oils are far more stable, and the animal fats, like. Like the ghee and butter and tallow. I don't recommend eating large amounts of those. But a little bits, they're, they're much more stable. They don't break down. They don't have the double bonds, the animal fats.
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B
Wow. Now, how can people find out more information about all this? Because there's so much information and I'm writing stuff down and I'll go back and I'm like, what do they mean by that? So how do I find out more information about this?
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A
Yes, I'm so glad you asked. I have a new book coming out. It's the Truth About Seed Oils. Straightforward. And not only is there a lot of the information that I just gave you in the list of the good oils and the whys, but I have a shopping guide in the back and how you can get a restaurant guide, the apps that you can go to. And we have over 50 recipes in there with examples of using the good oils and delicious things and fun things and how to make coconut oil popcorn with sea salt that's so, so delicious and bulletproof coffee. And on and on it goes is some of the things that are kind of popular and people are talking about a lot right now. And we have contributions from some pretty famous people. RFK Jr. S wife, Cheryl Hines contributed a recipe at Marla Maples and Vani Hari, the food babe. So we have some fun recipes from other people than just us. And we have some really fun desserts. Like my co author, Liana has little mini cheesecakes that are made with cashews and coconut oil. And they are so delicious. I tried them out on our group that came for our health and wellness retreat in January. Everybody loved them. They were so delicious. Little mini cheesecakes. And, and so we have fun things, chocolate brownies, and they're all healthy recipes and salad dressings and main dishes and side dishes. We have a lot for you to choose from and get a good idea of how to, you know, swap out the bad oil and which oils to put in there. I also have a list of the smoke points and that is really important to know of what, what can tolerate high heat and what can't, because there are some oils that can't smoke pretty easily. So what does smoke point mean? And we've all seen it. You put your oil in the pan, you turn around, boom, it's smoking. Well, now it's degrading it. You're creating toxins. So that's the smoke point.
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B
That's not good. Definitely need to get that book because that's. I need everything in print in front of me. So I can read it and everything is hard until you learn it. Then it's easy. Right, so it's.
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A
Then it's easy.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Yeah. Amazon's got it.
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B
Okay. You have a few other books under your belt also, being the juice lady.
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A
I have a few. This was number 36.
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B
Wow.
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A
So I have 35, but most of them on juicing.
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B
Not all, but that's 36 more than me. I couldn't even write a pamphlet. But some people were meant for different things, so I'm. I'm still trying to figure out what I'm meant for.
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A
You're meant for talking.
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B
Yeah. Okay. I can talk. Yeah, I do that. Siri, it's. It's really nice to meet you for the third time. Not meet you, but talk with you. I did meet you at a conference somewhere.
- [34:48]
A
Yeah.
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B
When was it? Was that the 10th anniversary?
- [34:51]
A
Yes. Was that the one in Atlanta? No. Houston. Houston.
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B
Houston. Yeah.
- [34:57]
A
Yes.
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B
Yes. Table set up there?
- [34:59]
A
Yeah, I did.
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B
And you're always smiling because you. Because you're full of juice.
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A
Juice and joy. Well, when you're healthy, you just feel like smiling. You know, you're just happy. You feel good. Your cells are happy.
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B
Exactly, Exactly. All your cells are smiling. And it comes out on your face. You can't help it if people don't know your story for some reason. You know, we have episode 11 where you give your whole testimony, and I. I think about that story every once in a while. Just. It makes me hurt to think about what you went through when you were just a young, young lady and how you have just come along and changing the world with information.
- [35:40]
A
So I have a chill. It's a testimony of what God can do. And this is, I think, the way to. To wrap up today is that God can do anything. Nothing is impossible with God and where I came from and all of the damage that was done to my body by a burglar attack, and I won't go into any more than that. Only God could put me back together again as he did. And he will do that for everybody who asks Him. He will help. He is our healer, our helper, our deliverer. I can't say enough.
- [36:22]
B
He's been through a little himself, hasn't he?
- [36:24]
A
He's been through a lot. Yes, A lot More than any of us.
- [36:28]
B
Yes. Well, Sari, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure talking to you.
- [36:33]
A
And you, Jim. Thank you so much. It was a great show.
- [36:36]
C
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