← I Don't Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST
I Don't Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST
Time to Suit Up! Bringing HOPE to Utah Valley Univ. with Pastor Greg Laurie
00:49:28
Loading summary
Transcript59 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, we had quite an event at UC Berserkley the other night. I'll tell you a little bit about it a little bit later in the broadcast. But I want to start with one of the best known names in Christianity for a great reason. He's spoken to over 11 million people over the last three decades in crusades called Harvest Crusades. And he came from a broken home, and yet he's one of the world's best evangelists. How did this happen? Of course, I'm talking about the great Greg Laurie, ladies and gentlemen, all the way from Southern California, Greg and I. All right, enough crowd. I know he's great, but I know that you've probably heard of Greg. You've probably seen much of what he's done, but this is the first time I've had the pleasure of having him on the podcast. I was on his podcast when I was out in California a few weeks ago. Greg, it's an honor to have you on. And you're about to do something that God had to providentially arrange. Maybe. Let's start right there. What's going to happen this weekend in Utah?
- [01:22]
B
Well, Frank, first of all, thank you for having me on. It's great to be with you. We're both in libraries, I see.
- [01:27]
A
Yes.
- [01:28]
B
So that's kind of. Yeah. Makes us look more intelligent. I know. You actually read my book. Your books. Mine are all props. None of them are real. No, they are, but. Yeah. Well, so very interesting thing we're going to do this Sunday at uvu. And of course, you know this campus well. This is where this horrific event took place where our friend Charlie Kirk was assassinated. There's no other way to put it. And so we were talking with the pastors in Utah prior to that event about coming to do a crusade. And after Charlie was killed, we reached out to them and said, is there anything we can do for you? Because we were planning 2027 for our crusade, and they said, yes, could you come sooner? And we prayed, and I felt prompted by the Lord to say yes. Now, normally, Frank, it takes us a year. Maybe the shortest we've done a crusade in six months. But we had six weeks to put this thing together, but we were able to get it done. And so I'll be there this coming Sunday night in their main arena on the same campus. And here's the way I look at it. You know, we don't know why, and I know you've dealt with this question a lot, but we don't know why this unspeakable act of evil happened to a young man in the prime of his life who was such a powerful voice for the kingdom of God and for what is true. And he was a great example for people, especially young people. We don't know why that happened, but we know that God can take what the devil meant for evil and use it for good.
- [03:16]
A
Amen.
- [03:17]
B
And that's what Joseph said to his brothers who betrayed him and sold him into slavery. He said, you meant it for evil. God meant it for good. Why? To save many people alive. And I heard Erica Kirk say something I thought was amazing in her interview that she recently did with Jesse Waters. Did you watch that interview?
- [03:34]
A
Yes, I did. Yeah.
- [03:35]
B
And Jesse was personally moved where he is saying, now I'm looking into this, and I want to get closer to God, which I think is fantastic. But one thing that Erica said that really surprised Jesse is she said, I think if Charlie in heaven could see all the things that have happened in the aftermath of his death, he wouldn't want to come back from heaven. In other words, he would be thankful for what has been accomplished. So, look, I said to Erica in a conversation with her, because we lost our son 16 years ago in an automobile accident, I said, erica, the thing is, one of the ways I found to deal with grieving is you don't waste your pain. So I use pain, my pain, as a weapon and a tool. A tool to help people and a weapon to fight with. And what that means is I take the worst thing that happened to me and I use it to leverage the message of the gospel. And I basically say, look, we survived the worst, most catastrophic event that could ever happen to parents, and God got us through it. And our hope is in Christ, and we know we'll see our son again in heaven. And I want to tell you how you can know Christ. Right? So I feel like we're going to UVU now in this place where an act of unspeakable darkness took place, and we want to shine the radiant light of the gospel and say, well, look, Charlie was a Christian. He loved Jesus. That's what motivated him. You yourself told me, Frank, in a conversation you had with Charlie, that he said, the political stuff we do is small potatoes compared to the gospel.
- [05:16]
A
That's right.
- [05:17]
B
That really resonated with me. So, you know, this is what he believed. And we want to tell you how you can come into a relationship with God. So that's what it's all about.
- [05:26]
A
Now, Greg, how do people get tickets to this in Utah? What time does it start? How do they get involved? Or can they even volunteer if they're Christians? What do you need?
- [05:39]
B
Well, unfortunately, our venue is somewhat limited. I think we'll have in total 10,000 seats. You can get tickets by going to harvest.org and there's no charge for the ticket, but we have to ticket it. We're required to. And then you'll have a seat as well. And so, yeah, and it starts at 6 o', clock, but I would recommend getting there earlier. But the cool thing is if you can't make it, you can watch it@harvest.org we also have some local churches opening their facility up with a screen and a livestream of the event happening. But no matter where you are, take out your phone, your tablet, harvest.org Even better, download the Harvest plus app on any app store and you can watch it on your tv. We're encouraging people to have watch parties in their home. So wherever you are, you can be a part of what I believe is going to be a historic event.
- [06:36]
A
You know, we never thought of all the places that Charlie went that someone in Utah would take a shot at him. I know that people there are feeling embarrassed and upset and guilty that this man was murdered in their state. Yes. And as we all know, it's predominantly Mormon.
- [07:02]
B
Yep.
- [07:03]
A
They make great neighbors. They're very nice people. But according to Mormon doctrine, grace is not enough. You have to do good works. They're polytheists. They believe as man is, God wants. Was. Doesn't mean every Mormon believes this, but I'm saying this is kind of their official doctrine. It has a lot of distinctives that are not Christian. How are you going to deal with this, Greg, in that environment?
- [07:32]
B
Well, that's a good question. I've been. I'm going to give. You know, here's the thing, Frank. I. I've had people from the LDS Church come to Christ listening to my preaching. And I didn't necessarily gear it to them in particular, but the message I'm going to give, I've been working on a lot and with input from people that live in Utah and people that have understanding of these things, even certain sentences, the way I'm stating it. But I had a conversation with Glenn Beck in the White House recently. I was there at the event where Charlie was given the Medal of Freedom. We were invited by Erica Kirk. And I ran into Glenn walking in. And I've met Glenn before and been on his podcast before. And I told him about this a minute. I said, you know, Glenn, an amazing thing is we've been welcomed by the many people in the LDS community. He goes, well, are Mormons welcome at your event? I said, of course, Glenn. Everyone's welcome. I said, it's for everyone. And he says, what are you going to tell them? I said, I'm going to tell them about Jesus Christ and how to come into a relationship with him. And he said, I'm supportive of it. So obviously I want to focus on the fact that when Jesus died on the cross, he purchased our salvation. He used one single word. We translated. It is finished. It was the word tetelestai, which means it's accomplished, it's completed. You know, religion effectively says, and this wouldn't just be Mormonism, but religions in general say, do this and you'll reach nirvana. Do that and maybe you'll go to heaven. But Christianity could be summed up in one word, done. It's finished, it's purchased. There's nothing I can do to earn it. And so I must accept it as a gift to clearly, I'll emphasize that. And I'm thinking of preaching on one of my favorite stories in the Bible, the story of the prodigal son. So I appreciate prayers and people.
- [09:37]
A
All right, we're going to do that. We're going to hear a lot more from the great Greg Glory right after the break. Go to harvest.orgharvest.org for more. It's going to be this Sunday, November 16th, and please be in prayer over it. You can also also see it online. Harvest.org is where you can go. And we we're back in just a couple of minutes after this break. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to I Don't have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist with me, Frank Turek on the American Family Radio Network and other stations around the country. I'm talking to the great Greg Laurie, who has a very important Harvest crusade this weekend on the very campus at which Charlie Kirk was murdered. It's going to be this Sunday, 16th November, 6pm if you're anywhere in the area, you've got to go online to get tickets@harvest.org it might be sold out already, but if it is, you can still see it online. Greg, I want to go back to what you mentioned in the first segment. Yeah. Because I've been going to college campuses and talking about if there's a good God, why is there evil? Why did he allow Charlie Kirk to be murdered? You have experienced this personally. Your son was in a car accident 16 years ago. I can't imagine that kind of pain. How has it changed you? And when people come to you and say, greg, why did this bad thing happen in my life? What do you say?
- [11:10]
B
Yeah, well, you know, even though I had been preaching for many years before this happened, when the event happened, when we heard the worst news imaginable that our son had left this life for the next life, you know, you can't believe it. You are in a state of shock. And I've always been the pastor up on the stage behind the pulpit, trying to bring a measure of comfort to families who have lost loved ones, specifically children. I have done many services for families that have lost children. But then one day I was in the front row, and the pastor was speaking to me. And being a pastor didn't give me an advantage, because when it was all said and done, I was a father who lost a son. And it's indescribable. Of course, we follow a God who knows what it's like to see his son die, and he is able to comfort us in our times of difficulty. And so there are so many things I've learned, but, you know, it made heaven closer. It made heaven more real. I've always preached on heaven, always believed in heaven, obviously. But I became a real student of heaven after our son went there, because I wanted to know more about it. What is he doing? What is it like? It gave me a greater compassion for people who've lost loved ones, especially children. You know, it's been said that success builds walls, but failures, failure builds bridges. And I think the idea of that is, you know, when we have suffered, it builds a bridge to people that listen to us because they realize, oh, wow, we're just like them, you know? And so it gave me a greater compassion. And one thing I determined, and I mentioned this earlier, is I said, I'm not going to waste my pain. I actually had a crusade scheduled only a couple of weeks after Christopher died, and people were asking, is Greg going to speak still? There was never a question on my mind if I would speak or not. In fact, it was the best thing I could do at the moment. My son was a graphic designer. So I'm standing in the stadium surrounded by all these video screens with art that he designed for this event. And I'm thinking of him in heaven. And as I'm preaching, I'm thinking there was nothing I would rather do than tell people how they can come into a relationship with Jesus Christ. As to the question of why, I think that there is no answer that satisfies you. And if there was, let's just say for the sake of an argument, God said, okay, I'm going to tell you why. Are you ready for it? Yes, I am. Lord, the reason it happened is for this. I don't know that we would like it or agree with it. So, you know. Have you ever heard of Warren Wiersbe, Frank?
- [13:56]
A
Of course. Yeah.
- [13:57]
B
Great commentary.
- [13:58]
A
Great Bible preacher. Yeah.
- [14:00]
B
Wonderful man of God. He wrote me a beautiful letter right after Christopher died. And one statement I never forgot was he said, we live on promises, not explanations. And that was very helpful. And Pastor Chuck Smith told me something I never forgot. He said, never trade what you do know for what you don't know.
- [14:21]
A
I love that statement, Greg. I remember him saying that. Yeah. That is so profound.
- [14:27]
B
It is because. Because you think, well, what do I not know? Why did this happen? He was so young. He was married. He had his whole life before him. He had a daughter, a young daughter, two years old, and another on the way. Why? Why? Why? Why? There's no answer that will satisfy you, so you pivot. Okay, I don't know. Here's what I do know. I know God loves me. I got. I know God loves my son. Number two, I know my son's in heaven. Number three, I know I'll see my son again. So when you start pivoting to the what you know category, it helps you kind of get a better perspective. There is just no satisfactory answer to the why did God allow this to happen? One day all these questions will be answered. So I pivoted to the who question. As to who should I turn to, the answer is God. And then the what? What should I do? And I determined the best thing I could do is spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to bring people to Christ, to obviously stay close to the Lord myself and to help people who are hurting and just as I said earlier, not waste my pain.
- [15:36]
A
Also, you have a son that's in the ministry with you now and got a chance to meet him and your wife. Kathy's amazing. She is. She's a rock. I could tell just spending 45 minutes talking to her. How has that event affected them, Greg? Your wife, Kathy, and your son, who's now working with you closely in the ministry.
- [15:59]
B
Yeah, he's sitting across the table from me right now. He's a pastor at our church. And I posted a photograph on my Instagram last week because Jonathan spoke last Sunday at our church. And it's a photograph of him with Billy Graham at Billy's home in Montreat, North Carolina. So there's Billy, an older Billy, and a tiny little Jonathan. And so Jonathan, like many preachers kids, will hear people say, are you going to grow up and be a preacher like your dad? And, you know, that is actually the last thing he wanted to be, was a preacher. But he really loved and respected his brother Christopher, his older brother, who was over 10 years older than him. And Jonathan was struggling with some of the things Christopher had struggled with earlier, which was partying and drinking and drugs. And so Christopher had recommitted his life to the Lord and wasn't doing that anymore and was trying to help his younger brother. And so he said to Jonathan, jonathan, what's it going to take for you to get right with God? And Jonathan had determined that the next day he wanted to have a conversation with his brother about that. And the Lord called Christopher unexpectedly home to heaven. So that event turned Jonathan around, and Jonathan recommitted his life to Christ and felt a call of ministry on his life and now is pastoring with me at our church. And so he was profoundly changed. I mean, what would have happened to Jonathan if this didn't happen? I don't know. But all I can say is out of the worst event imaginable came a wonderful thing, and we're thankful to God for that. And God used it. And my wife, well, you know, she. You know, our marriage has grown stronger, not weaker. And sometimes marriages fall apart when a child dies, I have to tell you that. And so we grew closer to the Lord and closer to each other. And when a husband and a wife are grieving the loss of a child, you know, you grieve differently. Like, maybe at one moment, Kathy is doing a little better, and I'm plummeting into deep sorrow. And then 10 minutes later, it's changed. So you learn to adapt to the other person. And if they're having a hard day, you just let them have their hard day or their hard moment, and you grieve together. And she deepened in her faith, though it was already very strong. And she also started a women's ministry and did a lot of things that she felt called to do. And now she's just started a ministry for grieving people in our church. Church. And they have an event they're doing for the holidays, Hope for the holidays. So she has a real heart to help people who've lost loved ones and especially children. So, you know, we never wanted to be those people, but we are, and we accept it. And I do know that I can help people, because when it happens, to you, Frank, I don't care how long you've known the Lord, you wonder, can I survive this? Because it's so devastating to lose a child. And I think just to have someone that's down the road a little further that will say, not only will you survive it, you're going to be happy again, you're going to have joy again, you're going to see your loved one eventually again in heaven, and you're going to get through this. And it's just to see someone that's on the other side gives you hope.
- [19:31]
A
You just gave people a lot of hope, Greg, just in what you said, because people that haven't been through it can't really relate, but you can. And I think Paul talks about this in First Corinthians, chapter two, that. I'm sorry, Second Corinthians, chapter one, where he says that we comfort others after the Lord has comforted us. Yeah. And so he's given you a ministry of comfort for people. And there's always a ripple effect to evil. You saw the ripple effect with Jonathan. There's always good things that come from evil. And as the Lord says, we know that all things work together for good to those that love God and are called according to his purpose, ultimately to be conformed to the image of his Son. That's. Yes. Doesn't say all things are good. Those things work together for good.
- [20:18]
B
Yes. I think that sometimes Christians misunderstand that verse. They almost think that it means everything becomes good. That's not what the verse says. And then you quoted the verse that follows it. For we know that all things work together for good to those that love God and are the called according to his purpose. And Paul continues, for whom he did foreknow, he also did predestined to be conformed into the image of his own dear Son. So God's big plan is to make us more like Jesus, because heaven is a prepared place for prepared people. Jesus said, I've gone to prepare a place for you. So God wants to make us like Christ in our life here on this earth. And yes, he. So it doesn't mean he makes good things. Excuse me. It doesn't mean he makes bad things good, but it means that he can bring good despite the bad things. Because I'll always look at that event, when my son went to be with the Lord as a tragedy.
- [21:13]
A
Yes.
- [21:13]
B
I would never say, oh, I'm glad that happened.
- [21:15]
A
Right.
- [21:16]
B
But I could say, and I do say, despite that tragedy, I have seen good in my life. I was talking with Erica recently and she said I would trade all of the things that have happened if I could just have Charlie back. And I said, I understand that. I had said to my wife, if we can only have all these good things and Christopher, imagine how wonderful that would be. So that's understandable. But God's in control and so we can trust him.
- [21:45]
A
Yeah. Well, one day in heaven you will have it all back. We just won't have the sin nature. Right. We won't have to worry about, well, bad things happening. So yeah, that is coming and it's something that is a promise of the Christian faith. But what Chuck Smith said I think is so profound too. Do not let what you don't know cause you to doubt what you do know. Yeah, you know, we do know there's a God. We have evidence for God. We do know that Jesus rose from the dead. We have evidence for that. And by the way, as the scriptures say, there is going to be difficulty. We're going to have trouble in this world. But Jesus said take heart of, overcome the world. And Greg, I think a big ripple is going to happen this Sunday when you go to that stadium and you preach the gospel and there'll probably be a lot of people who are Mormons in there who don't know about grace. You're going to bring grace and I think a of lot of people are going to come to know Jesus. So we're going to pray about that. We've got a lot more with the Great Greg Laurie. Harvest.org is the website harvest.org and he also has a couple of church campuses we'll tell you about right after the break. Don't go anywhere. Students across America are more open to the truth of Christianity than ever before. And Dr. Frank Turek is taking the powerful evidence for God to campuses like UC Berkeley, the University of Georgia, Ohio State and Alabama, reaching thousands in person and millions more online. But every event now requires costly security to keep students safe. And Cross Examine never charges students to attend. That's why we urgently need your support. The culture is dark, but hearts are open. Help keep the light of truth shining by donating today@crossexamine.org that's cross examined with a D on the end.org ladies and gentlemen, as you know, this week we've been at UC Berkeley, UC Berserkley. We'll tell you more about what happened there a little bit later in this show. Also University of Alabama just yesterday, Thursday, next week, Boise State University. November 20th happens to be my, my 64th birthday when I'm 64. And then there's a church we'll be at right after that on the 21st in Boise. Then we're going to get a little bit of a break for Thanksgiving. I'm looking forward to that. Oh, before I forget, this Monday we're going to be do, we're going to be doing the Bible. You never knew our, I think it's our seventh or eighth episode on that. All of the amazing things in the Bible that show it's divinely inspired, like typology, like third day references, like kayak chasms. You're not going to believe what we've discovered in the book of Ruth that points to the gospel, so you don't want to miss it. And also the connection between Jericho and the book of Revelation. The book of Revelation appears to be a reenactment of the battle of Jericho. We'll talk all about that this coming Monday night, the 17th, 7:30pm it will be live streamed. It'll also be at Freedom House Church in Cornelius, North Carolina, just north of Charlotte. Hope to see you there. But let me go back to my guest, the great Greg Laurie. Greg, let's start at the beginning. I mean, you've got such a dynamic ministry. You've spoken to millions of people. Many people have come to know Jesus not just in your crusades, but also in your church. And of course you're making disciples. That's really what Jesus told us to do, not make believers, make disciples. Yes, but how did this happen? Because you, you're like the least most likely candidate to be an evangelist. You came out of a broken home. You didn't know your father was, your mother was married several times. Take us from there. Where'd you come from?
- [25:43]
B
Where did I come from? Well, you know, I wasn't planned, I can tell you that. My mother, Charlene was a beautiful woman. I'm not exaggerating when I say she was a dead ringer for Marilyn Monroe. You look at these old photos of her that I have and she was a beautiful lady. And so she was raised in a Christian home by my grandparents. And she was a classic prodigal daughter, you know, went to the big city, the bright lights. She was raised in a southern culture from Arkansas. You know, she didn't want anything to do with that. So she had a fling one night in Long Beach, California with some guy named Barney. Barney. A child was conceived.
- [26:29]
A
Ripple effect.
- [26:30]
B
Yes.
- [26:31]
A
It's you.
- [26:32]
B
So thank God she didn't abort that child. She carried the child to term. He was born that child was me. I was named Gregory, after Gregory Peck, the actor. And so she had married another guy named Kim, and his name was on my birth certificate. So he was one of seven husbands that my mother had, and a lot of boyfriends in between. My mom was also a raging alcoholic. So I was living. She was living a crazy life. She was living la vida loca, Frank, I have to tell you. So some of the time, I lived with my grandparents, and then she sent me over to military school. I did another stint in military school, back with the grandparents again. So by the time I was 17, I felt like I was older because I had to grow up fast, because in many ways, I had to be the adult in the relationship. My mother would drink to excess every night, and she would literally pass out. So I had to get her to bed. You know, she might wake up and I'd have to feed her something, you know, but she was. You know, I had to take care of her, and I felt responsible for her, which is a lot of pressure for a little kid. But someone had to do it. So I did it. And I loved her, obviously. But, you know, I. Then I said, I never want to live the life of my mother. But ironically, I'm 16 years old. I'm partying, I'm drinking, I'm smoking, I'm doing all the things my mom did. I thought, this is insane. I don't want to live this life. And the drug culture was coming on strong back then, and so I thought maybe that's where the answer is. It's in drugs, you know? And so I started taking drugs, and I was told they would make me more aware. And it was true, in a way, because they became more aware of how empty and miserable I was. So it's almost like at the ripe old age of 7, 17, I'd come to a point of I knew what I didn't want, like, process of elimination. I don't want the life of my mother. I don't want this life I've been living. What is the answer? So on my college campus, there were some very outspoken Christians that would meet together and pray and sing songs and have Bible studies. And we called them the Jesus freaks. And the Jesus movement was happening, and I didn't know about. I didn't understand it, but they had something that interested me. So one day I was walking across my campus, and they were meeting on the front lawn, and here's where God's providence comes in. I found this out later. They normally met in a classroom, a science room, and the air conditioning broke that day, so they went on the front lawn instead. And I would have never gone into a classroom, do a meeting with a bunch of Christians, a bunch of Jesus freaks. But I'm walking across my high school campus, and there they are out there singing their songs. And I sat down close enough to eavesdrop on their conversation, but not close enough where people would think I was becoming one of them. Because that's like social suicide, right? So I'm listening. And a guy got up to speak. And if you've seen the Jesus Revolution film, he's portrayed by an actor named Jonathan Roumie, who plays Jesus on the Chosen. The preacher's name was Lonnie Frisbee, which tells the story of my conversion, among other things. And so he got up to speak, and I don't remember most of what he said, but one statement stuck with me. He said, jesus said, you're for me or against me. So I looked at the Christians. I thought, okay, I'm not one of them. Wait, does that mean I'm against Jesus? I mean, I always kind of believed in Jesus, Frank, as much as I knew of him. I'd seen all of his movies. When I was in trouble, I would call out to Jesus. I didn't call out to another God. I believe Jesus was there somewhere. But for the first time in my life, I realized, wait, I can know Jesus. He's not just a historical figure. He's alive now. I can be for him now, know him now. That was a revelation to me. And so Lonnie said, if you want to accept Christ, get up and walk forward and I'll pray with you. And some kids went forward, and I thought to myself, there's no way I can do this. Next thing I knew, I was up there praying. That's the day Christ came into my life. I broke all the rules. No one shared the gospel with me. No one invited me to a church meeting. I just went on my own. But God grabbed me. I felt like I was a brand plucked out of the fire. So that's how I came to Christ.
- [31:04]
A
Now, how did you get connected then with Chuck Smith? Because a lot of people don't know that you were preaching as a young man at Chuck's church there in Costa Mesa. Calvary Chapel, Costa Mesa. Jack Hibbs was in the audience and got saved with you preaching. Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills. Your friend is not that far from you. How did you get to the point where you're doing Bible studies as a.
- [31:27]
B
Young man, it's crazy because my background was design and art, and specifically I wanted to be a cartoonist. So I had always drawn cartoons my whole life. I used to correspond with Charles Schulz, the creator of Peanuts. Really? Oh, he was so generous. He wrote me letters. I was so incredible encouraged by them. But I had a couple things published in Surfer magazine. So my whole goal was, I want to be a professional cartoonist. And so I was in an art class and the assignment was to do a cartoon strip. Well, I drew those all the time. Well, now I'm a brand new Christian. And Pastor Chuck had preached about the woman at the well in John 4 that Sunday before. Oh, how did I get there? I'm sorry, I left that part out. Thankfully, there was a guy named Mark who came up to me and said, I saw that you accepted Christ the other day at the Bible study. I said, yes. He goes, I want you to come to church with me. And I said, no, thank you. He says, no, I want you to come. Where do you live? I said, no, no thank you, I don't want to go. And he says, where do you live? And he wouldn't take no for an answer. He was persistent in the best way possible. He picked me up and he took me to Calvary Chapel, which was in the throes of the Jesus movement. So I walked smack dab into the middle of a spiritual awakening. And that's where I saw Pastor Chuck. Okay, so coming back to my other story, he Talked about John 4, the woman @ the well. And so I drew this little cartoon strip called Living Water. Excuse me. And I don't know where I got this chutzpah, but I found out where he lived. I knocked on his door. Hi, Pastor Chuck, My name is Greg Lori, and I come to your church and I did this cartoon strip, and I wanted to show it to you. Maybe you'd like to publish it or something. And he liked it, and he had me redraw it for a format to be printed. And that was sort of my entry into ministry. Now I'm giving out this little cartoon booklet that shares the gospel. And before I knew it, I was talking to people and I was spending less time at the drawing board and more time sharing my faith. And so one thing led to another and I took over a little Bible study that turned into a church. And then on I went. I never aspired to this. I never wanted to be a public speaker, but maybe it's because I didn't have anything to say, and now I did.
- [33:50]
A
So now you have a church in Riverside. And you also have a campus in Newport Beach. Tell us about those.
- [33:58]
B
Yeah, the other campus is Irvine, which is close to Newport Beach. Orange County. And I was raised in Orange County. That's where I went to school. I came to Christ and Newport beach, actually at Newport Harbor High School. And yes, we have a church here. We have a campus on Maui as well. You have to come visit that sometime, Frank.
- [34:16]
A
Oh, that's our choice.
- [34:17]
B
Yeah, that was a campus that was preexisting and the pastor retired and they asked us to take it over. So that's one of our campuses as well. But yeah, we have three campuses. And I've been doing this over 50 years.
- [34:33]
A
And if people want to be a part, they can also be a part online. But locally, where do they go? Harvest.org for the harvest.org is kind of.
- [34:43]
B
Command central for our ministry. You'll find everything you need to know. The address of our church in Riverside, the address of our church in Irvine and on the island of Maui as well. And then our services are broadcast online. We call it Harvest at home@harvest.org and you can watch there, go to our YouTube page. And other we have the Harvest app. I encourage people to download an app we have called Harvest Plus. You can have it for your phone, for your tablet, you can download it for your television and watch everything we do. We shoot high definition video. It looks great. And you can be a part of what we do, including our crusade this coming Sunday at UVU in Utah.
- [35:29]
A
Greg, with about a minute to go before the break, tell us what you've noticed since Charlie's death in the church. Are we in the middle of a revival? Is it starting? What's going on?
- [35:38]
B
Yeah, I think we're seeing without question, revival like things taking place. And I'd already seen it prior to Charlie's death. Yes, but it's even more sense. There was an article, I'm sure you saw it in the Wall Street Journal, that said there's been a sharp uptick of Bible sales since the death of Charlie. I think Charlie's death was like rocket fuel in a preexisting fire of revival. And I've seen it accelerate, especially among younger people, not just kids coming to Christ, but even a lot of Christian kids that were inspired by his life and his boldness and his courage. And they too now want to be a voice to their generation.
- [36:20]
A
We're going to talk more about that and also what happened at UC Berkeley. Berkeley, right after the break. My guest is the great Greg Laurie. Harvest.org He's got a crusade this weekend in Utah on the same campus at which Charlie Kirk was martyred. If you want to be a part of that, go to harvest.org all the details are there. You can also get the app a lot more after the break. Don't go anywhere. You're listening to I Don't have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist with Frank Turk. You've probably seen the news about what happened at UC Berkeley. We call it UC Berserkley. On Monday night I was speaking there along with comedian Rob Schneider. And Rob brought a couple of friends of his, Peter Boan, who I'm going to have on the podcast here soon. You might know Peter. He's an atheist but he's conservative politically and he's trying to fight for the preservation of Western civilization. Also Andrew Doyle was there. The Guy has a PhD in Shakespeare and he wrote a book against Wokeness. But I digress. We were in the building when we learned that Antifa was outside and causing a lot of havoc. There will probably be a lawsuit. In fact it's already in motion from the Department of Justice. Hamit Dillon, who is the top civil rights attorney for the government is has already sent Berkeley a letter because they did not protect students adequately who were trying to get in. In fact the event was sold several times over. It had about 2000 seats and they only let about a thousand in. The other people were intimidated by Antifa and many of the leftists out there who by the way most of the the protesters were not students. They were older people, probably funded by George Soros. We'll find out at some point. In any event then and university knew this was going to be a problem and they didn't really do much about it. So we'll see what happens when it comes to the lawsuit the charges that are brought. Berkeley is given millions of dollars, maybe a billion dollars a year. I've seen, I don't know what number is actually correct. But as a state school they have an obligation to protect any speaker that comes on and any audience that wants to hear the speaker. That's equal access according to the US Constitution and the Supreme Court. Also there's no heckler's veto. You can't just shout people down because you don't like what they say. Now inside the room they were all, at least many of them were supporters. We didn't have any hecklers. We did have an antifa person who was actually pretty polite but a self identified antifa person. We're going to put the link to what happened. The Rumble account has the video on it, the TP USA Rumble account. And the first person asked a question, asked a question of Rob Schneider. He said he was antifa. Rob ultimately shook the guy's hand. Any event, I won't get into what was said there, other than the fact that I talked about the gospel and also talked about if there is a good God, why did he allow Charlie to die? We covered all that in the, in my 20 minute talk. The bigger issue though, is the hostility. And I want to ask my guest today, Greg Laurie, the Great Gray Glory, who is going to have a harvest crusade on the very campus at which Charlie was murdered this Sunday, 6pm Mountain time. That's probably 8pm out here on the East coast and 5pm on the West Coast. Harvest.org has it all. Greg, why do we have this hostility toward Christianity? I mean, it's been going on forever, but it, it really has seemed to come up recently and it's come up against conservatives as well. And it's really odd for some people to notice that some people in the so called LGBTQ community are aligned with people who are Muslims and anarchists. The Muslims, if they had an opportunity, if the LGBTQ people went to Gaza, the Muslims would murder the same sex people. Why do these people appear to be aligned and why all this hostility? What's going on?
- [40:43]
B
Yes, that's a good question. You know, there's a verse in Revelation that says, the devil has come down to you and he knows that his time is short. You know, I believe Jesus is coming and I believe the devil knows that too. You know, the devil believes the Bible in the sense that the Bible tells us the demons believe and tremble. If we were able to interview Lucifer, which we would never want to do, but we might be surprised to find that he's quite orthodox in his faith. In other words, you might say Lucifer. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God? Oh, he would begrudgingly say yes, because when he tempted Christ in the wilderness. It's translated if you're the son of God, but it can be translated since, since you're the son of God, why don't you turn this rock into a piece of bread, etc. He knows Jesus is the son of God and he hates them. I'm not saying Satan believes in Jesus. I remember when I was a brand new Christian, I went to a prayer meeting and someone said, let's pray for Satan's conversion and then he won't bother us anymore. Even as a new Christian. I knew that was insane. Okay, so, but here's the bott not suggesting the devil believes in the sense that he submitted to Christ. It's the opposite. He hates Christ. He's opposed to Christ, but he knows the power of Christ and he knows his days are numbered and he's trying to wreak as much havoc as he can in the interim. I'm also reminded of the fact that when Christ walked this earth, the Sadducees and the Pharisees, who normally didn't even talk to each other because they had differing views on a number of topics, including the resurrection of the dead, worked together to destroy Christ. And the religious leaders worked together with the Roman authorities, and they didn't get along either to kill Jesus. And so in the same way, we see the most unlikely people coming together and their mutual hatred of Christ and the message that he gives us. And so here's what we need to do. Don't freak out, because greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. Don't freak out. Suit up. Put on the armor of God. That's what Paul tells In Ephesians 6, the helmet of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness, the shield of faith, the sword of the Spirit, having your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace. So in other words, stay close to the Lord and guard your mind and trust in the promises of God and use the word of God, the sword of the spirit. And I appreciate what you do, Frank, because you go into all these worlds with a message of Christ as an apologist, and you explain what is true and you help people to believe and you go into very hostile environments to do it. And I would say one last thing about this. You know, pray for people that are spiritual leaders. Pray for Frank, pray for me. Pray for so many others that are out there serving the Lord, because we are under attack right now, maybe like never before on many fronts. Pray for God's protection of us and that he would guide us and use us. And pray for yourselves as well, because the bottom line is if you say, lord, I want to be used by you, you're going into enemy territory and you're going to face opposition. In fact, if you're not facing opposition, you might ask if you're doing your job right.
- [44:23]
A
Well said, Greg. Tell us more about the full armor of God. Give us some practical tips on how to actually do that. I mean, obviously, if you're going to yield or wield, I should say, the sword of the Spirit, you got to Know. And you're going to use the word of God. You got to know what the word of God is. So give us some ideas.
- [44:44]
B
Yes, well, a helmet. A helmet protects your brain, your head. I'm a motorcycle rider. I'm required to wear a helmet. I have to admit, I've been in some states where there's no helmet laws, and I've ridden without a helmet. It's a lot of fun. Also insane and dangerous, Right? So if you fall, you want that helmet to protect your head. They call it a brain bucket. Okay? So put on the helmet of salvation. What that means is you keep your mind guarded. The Bible says whatsoever things are true and lovely. If there's any virtue found in these things, think on these things. So I am the air controller of my own brain. I decide what comes in and what stays out. So think about what you think about. Guard your mind. Fill it with the word of God. You know, sometimes we'll have our memory full on our computer and we want to add more information. It'll say, memory full. May our minds be so full of the word of God, there's just no room for the other junk. Another thing, the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. So when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, I already mentioned this. Every time the devil came to him, Christ responded with the word of God. So Jesus could have used executive privilege and he could have said, devil, get out of here. And the devil would flee because Christ is way more powerful than Satan. But Jesus occupied ground that we can occupy. In other words, he gave us a model or a template on how to deal with temptation. And every time the devil came to him with the temptation, hey, Jesus, he said, why don't you turn this rock into a piece of bread? Jesus responds by saying, it is written, by man shall live, not live by bread alone, but by the word of God. You know, hey, why don't you jump off the edge of this temple? Here it is written, you shall not test the Lord your God. Every time Jesus comes back to the word of God. So memorize scripture. The Bible says, you, word, have I hid my heart that I might not sin against you? And then when you're being tempted, you quote the word of God and it helps you. And this can be when you're stressed out, when you're filled with worry, what if this happens? Happens? What if that happens? Quote the Bible, hey, the Bible says, don't worry about anything. Pray about everything. And the peace of God that passes all human understanding will guard your heart and mind in Christ, Jesus, Philippians. And so depending on what you're dealing with, you quote scripture to yourself. So the sword is the one offensive weapon and of course the shield of faith. I'm walking by faith, not by feeling, not by emotion. Stand on the promises of God. Those are some thoughts.
- [47:25]
A
That's excellent, Greg. And I think it's very wise that you're going to probably be talking about the prodigal sons, actually. Yeah, that's right, because both are lost. Even the guy who stays home and says, you know, dad, you owe me, because there's going to be a lot of people there, especially if they adhere to Mormon theology this weekend, that they think God owes them because they've been following the rules. Right. And both of the sons are lost.
- [47:53]
B
Yes.
- [47:54]
A
And Jesus is the Savior, the Father saves by grace. So you're going to go there and you're going to bring that message this Sunday. Harvest.org close us out. Greg, we've got just about 40 seconds before maybe close us with a prayer, would you?
- [48:13]
B
Okay. Thank you very much, Father. We thank you for the opportunities you've opened up for all of us to preach the gospel, help us to go through those doors of opportunity and to not be afraid. We've talked about enemy opposition, but you're greater than this enemy of ours and you conquered him at the cross. So we stand in your power and your victory. In Jesus name we pray. Amen.
- [48:38]
A
Amen. Greg, thank you so much, brother. We're praying for you this weekend.
- [48:42]
B
Thank you, Frank.
- [48:43]
A
That's Greg Laurie. La. Ladies and gentlemen, harvest.org, be a part of this this weekend. If you can't be there, pray. And you can watch it@harvest.org or get their app as well. That's the great Greg Laurie, great being with you. Ladies and gentlemen. Hope to see you Monday night. For the Bible you never knew. God bless. Dr. Frank Turek is bringing powerful evidence for God to campuses like UC Berkeley, the University of Georgia in Ohio State, reaching thousands in person and millions online. But each event now requires costly security. Your gift helps the light of truth pierce the darkness. Give today at crossexamined. Org.