Podcast Summary: I Don’t Have Enough FAITH to Be an ATHEIST

Episode: Whom Shall I Fear? Examining Courage in the Christian Faith with Heidi St. John

Host: Dr. Frank Turek
Guest: Heidi St. John
Date: October 14, 2025

Main Theme / Purpose

In this engaging episode, Dr. Frank Turek invites author, speaker, and homeschooling advocate Heidi St. John to explore the biblical and practical dimensions of courage—particularly within the Christian faith. They delve into how to instill courage in oneself, one’s children, and the next generation in a culture increasingly hostile to Christian values. Drawing from Scripture, personal testimony, and cultural analysis, the episode underscores the importance of faith-driven bravery, the proper “fear of the Lord,” the redemptive role of suffering, and the active engagement of Christians in parenting, culture, and even politics.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Nature and Source of Courage

• Courage as Foundational:
  • “Aristotle said, courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees the others.” (Frank Turek, 00:03)
  • Courage is not the absence of fear but the willingness to do what is right in the face of fear.
• Biblical Admonitions:
  • Both the Old and New Testaments emphasize courage (referencing Deuteronomy, the Psalms, Acts 4, 2 Timothy).

2. Instilling Courage in Children

• Modeled Behavior:
  • "You can't pass on what you don't possess." (Heidi St. John, 03:55)
  • Parents must demonstrate courage themselves if they hope to raise courageous children.
• The Role of Obedience and Trust:
  • Courage comes from trusting God and recognizing that one's days belong to Him.
• Anecdote:
  • Heidi shares her grandmother’s wisdom: “You can do anything if you’ll do it afraid.” (Heidi, 03:55)

3. The Fear of the Lord: Reverence, Not Terror

• Misconceptions About Divine Fear:
  • Some Christians believe post-salvation, there’s nothing left to fear from God.
  • Heidi argues this view reflects a lack of understanding of God's holiness.
• Healthy Reverence:
  • “We really have…lost the awe of God.” (Heidi, 08:39)
  • God’s discipline is an ongoing form of loving correction.

4. Suffering and Spiritual Growth

• Trial as Refinement:
  • Suffering draws believers closer to God and fosters dependence.
  • Heidi testifies about her cancer diagnosis and subsequent surgery, which brought her greater appreciation for God's faithfulness (14:05-17:41).
• The Theology of Suffering:
  • Both agree the evangelical community often lacks a robust theology of suffering.
  • Suffering should not lead to deconstruction of faith but deeper trust.

5. Practical Parenting and Cultural Courage

• Honest Parenting:
  • No topic is off-limits at the St. John house. Children should feel free to discuss any issue, including difficult cultural topics (34:17).
  • Younger children are encountering cultural challenges at earlier ages, necessitating earlier and more direct conversations.
• Culture’s Hostility:
  • Today’s culture incentivizes renouncing Christianity for social acceptance; thus, courage is required to stand firm.

6. Encouraging Biblical Literacy and Discernment

• Anchoring in Scripture:
  • Always return to the Word of God when facing questions or cultural confusion.
• Modeling Obedience and Honest Inquiry:
  • It’s okay for parents to admit when they don’t know an answer but must model seeking truth in Scripture.

7. Bravery in Public Spaces

• Personal Testimony:
  • Heidi candidly shares her journey from a difficult, abusive upbringing and panic disorders to her calling as a national speaker and advocate for families (25:00-29:37).
  • She recounts moments where courage led her into new ministry opportunities despite deep fear.
• Role of Community and Support:
  • Courage also involves asking for help and acknowledging one’s weaknesses.

8. Resources for Instilling Courage

• Children’s Books:
  • Discussion of Brave Books as a resource for teaching biblical values and courage to children (30:10-33:44).
  • Heidi's own children’s book, The Mouse in the Sea, and Frank’s Milo’s Mission spotlight the importance of character formation.

9. Courage in Public and Political Life

• Christians in Politics:
  • “If you think the gospel is important, you better think politics are important.” (Frank, 50:46)
  • Heidi shares her 2022 run for Congress, including her experience with President Trump’s endorsement (48:11–49:17).
• Voter Engagement:
  • Many self-identified Christians are disengaged; widespread Christian voter participation could drastically change elections (52:31-53:03).
• Clarifying the Church-State Relationship:
  • The “separation of church and state” is often misunderstood and misapplied to discourage Christian engagement.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Real Courage:

  • “Courage is not the absence of fear… It’s doing what's right in the face of fear.” (Frank, 03:24)

• On Parental Influence:

  • “Our children are watching us. They're watching how we respond to the news, to a virus, to criticism… and we trust that what God began in us as parents, he will finish in our children.” (Heidi, 06:43)

• On the Loss of Reverence:

  • “We really have, in this culture, lost the awe of God.” (Heidi, 08:39)

• On Suffering’s Purpose:

  • “The least that we can do is live our lives according to His decrees and His regulations as He has set forth in His Scriptures over and over again.” (Heidi, 13:26)

• On Evangelical Attitudes to Suffering:

  • “We don’t have… a very good theology for suffering.” (Heidi, 21:33)

• On Courage and Risk:

  • “When was the last time you risked something in order to do the right thing?” (Frank, 38:39)

• On “Part-Time Christians”:

  • “Are we part-time Christians? Do we just only sometimes act like Christians or are we on a day off most of the time?” (Frank, 39:32)

• On Cultural Opposition:

  • “This is a culture that has set itself up against the knowledge of God… we have to be committed as parents to defending those truths ourselves.” (Heidi, 34:17)

• On Christians and Politics:

  • “Politics determines policy, and policy shapes the nation. Christians need to be in the policy-making, shaping business, which is why I ran for Congress.” (Heidi, 52:11)

• On Current Gen Z Revival:

  • “We're starting to see a generation of Christians who are not ashamed of the Gospel… they're boldly saying, you know what? I actually believe in Jesus.” (Heidi, 42:49)

Important Timestamps

• 00:03 – 03:24: Frank introduces courage, citing Aristotle, Scripture, and Heidi St. John's background.
• 03:55 – 07:43: Heidi’s approach to parenting for courage; the necessity of modeling what you want to see in your children.
• 07:43 – 10:44: Discussing the “fear of the Lord” and its relevance for Christians.
• 14:05 – 17:41: Heidi’s testimony regarding her cancer diagnosis, family prayer, and the spiritual fruits of suffering.
• 21:33 – 22:01: The problem of weak theology of suffering in the evangelical community.
• 25:00 – 29:37: Heidi’s personal story of overcoming abuse, mental health struggles, and being called to public ministry.
• 30:10 – 33:44: Recommendations for Brave Books and the importance of equipping children with “countercultural” biblical stories.
• 34:17 – 38:39: Strategies for instilling courage in kids amidst a hostile culture—and the vital role of honest, open conversation.
• 48:11 – 49:17: Heidi summarizes her run for Congress and her meeting with President Trump.
• 52:31 – 54:26: The urgency of Christian civic engagement and the myths of separation of church and state.

Episode Takeaways

• Courage is an essential Christian virtue—modeled, taught, and learned through community, adversity, and Scripture.
• Instilling courage in children requires authenticity, transparency, and a willingness to address uncomfortable cultural realities.
• A robust theology of suffering and a reverence for God are crucial for enduring faith, especially in hardship.
• Christians must be present in public and political spheres to influence law and culture with biblical truth and love.
• Resources like Brave Books can help families train children to stand firm in their values.

Further Engagement

• Heidi St. John's Website and Podcast — The Heidi St. John Podcast
• Brave Books — Monthly children's books teaching biblical values
• Becoming Mom: How to Fight with All That’s In You for Your Family and Your Faith (Heidi’s memoir)
• Revival Generation Documentary (CBN)

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