400 Too Many Ideas, Not Enough Follow-Through? Listen to This

Summary

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Podcast Summary: I HAVE ADHD Podcast

Episode 400 – “Too Many Ideas, Not Enough Follow-Through? Listen to This”

Host: Kristen Carder
Guest: Dr. Ari Tuckman, psychologist, author of The ADHD Productivity Manual
Date: May 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

This milestone 400th episode is a rich and candid discussion about productivity struggles unique to adults with ADHD. Host Kristen Carder and special guest Dr. Ari Tuckman, a leading ADHD psychologist and author, delve into the challenges of having “too many ideas and not enough follow-through,” tackling themes of self-acceptance, redefining productivity, dealing with endless to-do lists, and practical strategies for getting things done in meaningful ways.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Celebrating Episode 400 and Introducing Ari Tuckman

• Kristen expresses delight at persisting for 400 podcast episodes, framing it as a victory over ADHD’s challenges with follow-through.
  • “The fact that a hyperactive person with ADHD can persist for 400 episodes—I'm just going to go ahead and take the W on that one.” (03:10)
• She introduces Dr. Ari Tuckman, recalling how his book More Attention, Less Deficit was foundational in her own ADHD journey.

2. The Moving Goalposts & ADHD in Relationships

• The metaphor of “moving goalposts” captures how neurodivergent people experience shifting expectations in neurotypical environments, especially at work and in relationships.
  • “Where are the goalposts? And why are people continuing to move them without my consent or without telling me?” – Kristen (08:04)
• Ari points out that ADHDers are often blamed due to forgetfulness or inconsistency, even when external factors are at play.
  • “If you're seen as someone who sometimes forgets, doesn't hit the details, then when there's a disagreement... it's really like, well, who should we blame? I know it's you.” (09:03)

Memorable Story:

Ari recounts a support group member’s frustration at being chastised for being late, while his sibling’s tardiness went unnoticed (11:21).

3. Internalized Blame & Revisiting Relationship Dynamics

• Kristen and Ari discuss how ADHDers often internalize blame, building identities around being “the problem”—and how changing that narrative disrupts relationships.
  • “If I'm not always the problem, then maybe I will have to—or maybe should—hold other people accountable. And that's really uncomfy.” – Kristen (14:41)
• Ari explains how shifting blame dynamics is difficult for both parties, since acknowledging less personal fault means others must accept more responsibility.

4. The Emotional Cost of People-Pleasing

• ADHDers may default to people-pleasing and taking the blame as defense mechanisms; learning to let others experience discomfort (and not fixing it for them) is a powerful skill.
  • “For me, I think that one of the hardest things... is letting adults be uncomfortable and not solving that for them.” – Kristen (16:38)
• Ari:
  “If you're the problem, it means you have agency to do something about it... but if the other person is the problem, then it's hard to get them to address it.” (15:30-16:38)

5. Black-and-White Thinking & Productivity Myths

• Many ADHDers are stuck in all-or-nothing thinking about productivity—either living up to a rigid neurotypical standard or feeling they’ve failed entirely.

  • “My black and white brain is like, either I'm 100% people-pleasing or 100% standing in my authority... but there's gray area here and mostly it's both.” – Kristen (21:10)

• Ari identifies two common traps:

  • The unattainable ideal: “I sit down and crank out four hours of work, ignoring distractions.”
  • Tying productivity to self-worth: “If I can really get things done, then I’ll be deserving of good things.” (22:03, 22:53)

6. The Infinite To-Do List and Grief of Limited Capacity

• Both discuss the overwhelming effect of massive to-do lists, which breed guilt and avoidance more than productivity.

  • “I talk about it with my clients—like we carry around this ball and chain of this to-do list that's really never gonna get done.” – Kristen (24:07)
  • Ari: “That massive to-do list is not helpful. It actually makes it worse... every time you look at your to-do list, you see all this stuff that just stresses you out and makes you feel defeated.” (25:04)

• Kristen introduces the concept of grieving the fantasy—accepting human limitations, letting go of “someday” tasks, and gaining freedom (27:47).

• Strategies:

  • “Archiving” tasks and emails that aren’t urgent (28:47).
  • Declaring “inbox bankruptcy” to start fresh (30:09).

7. Prioritizing: Values, Attention & Decision Making

• Ari emphasizes clarifying big-picture values to decide what’s truly important:

  • “If you’re not clear on where you’re trying to end up, then everything is important.” (34:56)

• ADHD makes “feeling the future” difficult, and Ari advocates for writing things out, using visual aids, and talking things through for clarity (35:09-36:30).

• Kristen: “Attention is our most prized commodity.” (38:12)

• Ari: “Attention is our most prized commodity... there's all sorts of stuff out there about the whole attention economy and people who are working to get our attention—not always in clear and ethical ways.” (38:41)

8. The Pull of Now vs. the Needs of Future-You

• ADHDers naturally gravitate to what’s interesting now, at the expense of future goals.
  • Ari: “With ADHD, the present has a little bit more of a thumb on the scale... so it’s even more important to focus on the future, to try to feel the future consequence.” (40:01)
• Strategies:
  • Ritualize reminders, build in boundaries
  • Consider if your current decision will lead to future regret, but also focus on pursuing positives, not just avoiding negatives (49:05-49:12).

9. The Idea Parking Lot & Making Peace with Unfinished Ideas

• The concept of an idea parking lot: move non-urgent or low-priority ideas off the main list without “killing” them.
  • “It's not—I'm not burying it. I'm not killing it, but I have a parking lot for those ideas that are like, this is a great idea... If this gets done someday, that would be really nice.” – Kristen (52:19)

10. From Intention to Action: Making Important Tasks Doable

• Tuckman recommends:
  • Break down daunting tasks into micro-steps to build momentum (e.g., “Bring paint stuff upstairs. Get a ballpark of square footage.”) (55:41).
  • Ask: "How can I make this more fun?"—music, podcasts, collaboration, or anything that lowers the willpower barrier (57:06-59:07).
• Accept the reality of “ebb and flow”—spend energy where required, give yourself slack elsewhere.

11. Embracing Your Unique Process

• Self-acceptance is crucial:
  • Productivity, self-care, and getting things done don’t have to look “neurotypical.”
  • “I know exercise needs to be outside, in nature, fun, creative... It’s not gonna look like me in a gym following an app. And that’s okay.” – Kristen (60:06)
• Ari: “Figure out what is the easiest of the possible ways to do it.. and if it’s at work, sometimes you'll need to explain your method, but do it matter-of-factly, not apologetically.” (61:56)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Not enough and too much at the same time, right?”
  – Kristen, on feeling both inadequate and overwhelming (07:50)
• “If I am the problem, I can fix me. I’m used to failing... I’m not used to holding other people accountable.”
  – Kristen (14:41)
• “If you’re the problem, at least theoretically you have agency... when you put it on the other person, it’s a different kind of hard. You have to be okay with them being uncomfortable.”
  – Ari (15:30)
• “Attention is our most prized commodity... be a shepherd of your attention.”
  – Ari (38:41, 39:18)
• “How can I make this more fun?”
  – Ari (57:01)
• “I call that the idea parking lot. I’m just gonna park it. I’m not burying it, not burning it, but it’s off the everyday list.”
  – Kristen (52:22)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Celebrating 400 Episodes & Introduction – 02:45–05:27
• Moving Goalposts/Being Blamed – 08:00–10:30
• Internalizing ‘Being the Problem’ in Relationships – 13:00–14:41
• The Pain of People-Pleasing & Agency – 15:30–17:46
• Black-and-White Productivity Traps – 21:10–24:07
• The Infinite To-Do List & Archiving – 24:58–30:17
• Prioritizing by Values – 34:06–35:09
• Grieving the Fantasy of Doing It All – 27:07–28:47
• Focusing Your Attention Intentionally – 37:52–39:18
• Strategies for Future-Oriented Decisions – 40:01–43:01
• Idea Parking Lot – 52:19–53:13
• From Intention to Action – 54:44–59:07
• Embracing Individual Methods – 60:06–62:55

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Resources Mentioned

• Dr. Ari Tuckman’s “ADHD Productivity Manual”:
  Available in print, ebook, and audiobook (narrated by Ari).
  • Free downloadable PDF of workbook pages at drarituckman.com.
• Kristen’s “10 Things I Wish My Doctor Had Told Me When I Was Diagnosed with ADHD”:
  Direct link

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Final Recommendations

• Mark up the book, yell at it, do whatever makes it the most beneficial to your real life. – Ari (64:22)
• Let your ADHD creativity guide your methods—permission is the path to magic. – Kristen (62:55)

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This episode is a celebration of ADHDers making their own rules for productivity, dropping perfectionist standards, and embracing methods that actually work for their unique brains. It’s a must-listen for anyone overwhelmed with too many ideas and not enough follow-through.

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Transcript

[Kristin Carter]

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Welcome to the I have ADHD podcast where it's all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with adhd. I'm your host Kristin Carter and I have adhd. Let's chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I'll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B.

Hey, what's up? This is Kristen Carter and you've tuned into the I have ADHD podcast. I am medicated, caffeinated, regulated and ready to roll. Welcome to our 400th episode. I am so pleased to be with you today. I can't believe this journey has been 400 episodes long. The fact that a hyperactive person with ADHD can persist for 400 episodes. I'm just going to go ahead and take the W on that one. I feel like that is a big, huge win. So thanks for being here with us today. We have the perfect guest for you. Dr. Ari Tuckman is here to talk about all things productivity. But before we get there, I want to remind you if you are beginning your ADHD journey. If you're curious about adhd, if you've just been diagnosed and you're like, I have no idea what it means to have adhd, I have a resource for you on my website called 10 Things I wish my doctor had told me when I was diagnosed with ADHD. You can find that at I have adhd.com 10things. It is very useful. I hope you will go and grab it if you're interested. And we're going to get into the meat of the episode because you are here because you want to learn about productivity. Every single ADHDER wants to learn about productivity. Let me introduce you to my guest, Dr. Ari Tuckman. He is a psychologist, international presenter, author and ADHD thought leader. I have got to interrupt myself here and just say the memory that I always have, which is me lying on my bed in my old house trying to figure out is ADHD more than just lack of attention? And the first book that I read was called More Attention, Less Deficit by Ari Tuckman, the og. It was like the fact that I now get to sit across from you and have conversations about this just makes my heart so full. I appreciate you being here. Let me continue, Let me continue. He's given more than 850 presentations and podcast interviews and routinely earns excellent reviews for his ability to make complicated information understandable. I will second that. Absolutely true. His newest book, the ADHD Productivity Manual, which is beautifully displayed on our table here, is an excellent read. And Ari is a popular expert and advocate. He's been widely quoted in national media such as the New York Times, cnn, Washington Post, Boston Globe. I mean, let's just name drop all of them. And he serves as an expert advisor for the Institute for Challenging Disorganization, understood.org insight timer, and Chad's media team. Thanks for being here, Ari.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

It is awesome to be here, especially on your 400th episode, man. Congratulations. You have earned your place in the world of adhd.

[Kristin Carter]

I appreciate that. Thank you. I will receive that and tuck that away for the days where I feel like I'm hanging on by a thread. Thank you so much. And I just. The fact that I can send you a text or an email and say, hey, let's have a chat. Do you want to come on the podcast? That, to me just means so much. So the fact that you're here talking about your book, and not just that, but I think I said after the Chad conference, like, oh, Ari's, like, famous. Like, I didn't. I didn't get it. But you are, and that is just so wonderful. And there's a good reason for it. You've helped a lot of people. So can't wait to talk today. I know.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

I will always say yes. If you send me a text, I will almost always say yes.

[Kristin Carter]

I appreciate that. I really do. And it is selfish on my part because I am right up against my book deadline, and I'm like, I can't do. I'm so. I've got nothing in the tank, folks. There is nothing in the tank. So I'm like, I need someone smart to come on and talk so that I don't have to pretend to be smart.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, we can just roll. You don't have to prep or anything.

[Kristin Carter]

Yes. Let's do it. So I read your book before it even came out. What a privilege. What a privilege. And, you know, sometimes it feels like ADHD books are a dime a dozen. Sometimes it does. But as a person with ADHD herself who has consumed a shit ton of ADHD content, I really appreciated the way that you wrote the book, the way that it is so, like, straightforward and easy and there's space to fill out. Like, how am I actually feeling? What am I actually doing? The chapters are, like, three pages long, which I cannot say for my own book. I'm in the midst of trying to cut 4,000 words.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Oh, that hurts so much.

[Kristin Carter]

It hurts so much. And do you know what's annoying is that the 4,000 extra words are there because my editors kept sending it back and being like, we want more. We want more.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

And now they're like, actually it's too much. And I'm like, wait a second. Jerks.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Is this like the story of your life?

[Kristin Carter]

Yes.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Not enough and too much at the same time, right?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Oh, this is great. Give me more, give me more. Okay.

[Kristin Carter]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Not that much.

[Kristin Carter]

Too much. You've crossed the line. But I don't really know where the line is, so I'm always dancing around

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

it, you know, it's because people move the line that's the problem.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah. The goalposts keep moving. I agree with that. And I think that kind of is very indicative of what it's like to live as a neurotypical in a neuro. Excuse me, A neurodivergent person in a neurotypical world is like, where are the goalposts? And why are people continuing to move them without my consent or without telling me? So it does feel a little bit wobbly. Yeah, I would say sometimes.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Yeah, that does feel like a moving target, which is really unsettling.

[Kristin Carter]

A hundred percent.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

I think a lot of people experience that in the workplace, too.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Is that something that you notice with your clients? Because I'm not in corporate, thank God. I do not belong there, and I knew that from the start. So I've never been in corporate. I've always been an entrepreneur. But I do wonder if that's something that people who are in more traditional jobs really feel like the goalposts are constantly moving. I'm just curious if you. If your clients say those types of things.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

I mean, I think it is a thing, right, that, like, goalposts do move sometimes for, like, real reasons, you know, business reasons, whatever that means. Sometimes just because someone decided, you know, or some other random thing. But I think it can become one of those situations where if you're seen as someone who sometimes forgets, who doesn't hit the details, who shows up late, then when there's this disagreement of, like, wait, I thought it was this. No, I thought it was that. Then it's really like, well, who should we blame? I know it's you.

[Kristin Carter]

Yep.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. So which is even a thing. Like, I've seen this with clients that when I have to call them for something, right? It's not time for appointment, but I have to call them because I don't know, I have a question or I have to move or something often, often, you know what I'm going to say next.

[Kristin Carter]

What did I do wrong?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. Oh, my God, am I missing the appointment?

[Kristin Carter]

Did I forget something?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. So I'll even do a thing where if I have to call someone. I will not call them at, like, five minutes after the hour because that's when I would call if you're late, right? So I'm like, ooh, I don't want to stress them out, right? I feel like I should text them and say, I'm going to call you. Everything's fine. I need to move, you know, so they're not. Because. But I think that that automatic assumption, I think, is telling, right? Like, what is their experience? If there's a problem, it's probably me.

[Kristin Carter]

Is that nature or is that nurture, or is it both?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

I think it is the experience you have given what your nature is. You know, that, like, it's. It's that sort of like, I don't know, what's. Like, round up the usual suspects. You know what I mean? So, like, it is a thing that like it. Statistically speaking, maybe it is a bit more likely that, you know, you are the person who somehow, you know, didn't get the details right. But that doesn't mean you are always the person, you know, so. But, you know, it can sort of feel that way, or it can feel like you've kind of, I don't know, use up your free passes. So it's sort of like, again, you know, it's sort of like, I don't know, this is like an incredibly old example. But, you know, a million years ago, when I did my adult ADHD support group through Northern Virginia, Chad, I still remember this. This is probably literally 20 years ago, one of the guys in the group was complaining about the fact he. And you know, what he said was, like, one of my sisters can show up to a family thing, like, two hours late, nobody says anything. I'm like 10 minutes late. And, like, everybody's on my case about it, you know, and, like, it does feel unfair in that case. You know. Now, slightly, in his family's defense, right, he's always 10 minutes or half an hour late. So, like, I understand why they feel frustrated, but it still doesn't mean that it's helpful, right? And it doesn't really solve the problem either.

[Kristin Carter]

So it's such an interesting conversation because when we think about ADHD in relationships and the experience of someone with ADHD in relationships, and that's like, my focus right now, but my special interest in general, it's like, I know I've been a problem. There's. There's evidence for that, right? I've been inconsistent. I've been late. I've been maybe emotionally reactive, et cetera. So I come into this relationship kind of acknowledging I've got flaws. I've got a lot of flaws. I usually make relationships or, like, create relationships under that guise of like, yeah, I know I'm a problem. And people, I'm speaking. I'm speaking in the first person, but this is kind of. In general, the relationship is kind of established with like, yeah, I know I'm a problem.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

And then the other person agrees. And then we kind of like, the rules of the relationship are established. And as my clients begin to build self confidence, self trust, accept their adhd, accept their brains, they start living into more like, okay, maybe there are things about me that are flaws, but I'm not the problem all the time. I'm not the only problem ever. And what's interesting is that then the relationship kind of has to be renegotiated because the other person is kind of like, wait, we decided that you're the problem. We decided together. And. And maybe for a decade we've been like, the rules of the relation relationship have been set up that way. And now you're saying that maybe you're not the problem. Like, what do you even mean?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. And here's the implication of you being less of the problem. I guess that means I'm more of it, right? Like, let's see, who else. Oh, there's nobody else to blame. Oh, crap. I guess then that's on me, right? Like, there's a fine. There's a set amount of blame to be dispersed.

[Kristin Carter]

Right.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

And if you're taking on less of it, then it means I need to acknowledge more of it or I need to look at my part of it. This applies to romantic relationships, but it certainly applies to friendships or friend groups. Right. Who's the queen bee, who's the servant, or whatever. It applies in work settings. Like, so.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah, like family systems, too.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, absolutely. So. So it is a shift. And it, as much as it is in many ways for the good, it also involves some loss or some sacrifice or some change that other people to greater or lesser degrees might really resist.

[Kristin Carter]

It's a disruption of the norm. And what I also notice, first I noticed it in myself, then I started noticing it in my clients, was that I actually really want to be the problem a lot of the times, because if I am the problem, I can fix me. I'm used to failing. I'm used to being like, oh, yeah, Kristen, blah, blah, blah, I'll take the blame for it. I'm used to doing that. I'm not used to holding other People accountable. I'm not used to saying, hey, that really hurt me. I'm not used to saying, the dishwasher doesn't need to be loaded this exact way. There are other ways. I'm not used to asserting myself in that way. And if I'm not always the problem, then maybe I will have to or maybe should. Maybe that's the implication. And that's really uncomfy.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, well, and it is. And I mean, the thing about it is, like, if you are the problem, it means at least theoretically, you have agency to do something about it. Right. And when I see couples, I kind of talk about this, as much as you love blaming the other, then that puts the agency into their hands and they may choose not to do it. Whereas if you see you have some part in the dynamic, it means you can do some things differently. And maybe then your partner also will, you know. Now, the flip side of that, of kind of how you're framing it, is if you're the problem, you can address it, but if the other person is a problem, then it's hard to get them to address it. And it is, but you still have agency there. It's just a different kind of hard for you. Right? The hard is I am going to be okay with you not being okay. Right. That, like, you squirming in the, you know, accountability that is uncomfortable for you, and therefore that becomes uncomfortable for me. Right. So. So it's just a different kind of hard. But, like, that's okay. You know, you can do it if it's hard.

[Kristin Carter]

Either way, which hard am I going to choose? Which hard is going to lead ultimately to, like, a net positive over time? For me, I think that one of the hardest things for my clients and myself is letting adults be uncomfortable and not solving that for them.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

That's like. Like, if you're uncomfy, I know how to fix it. I can be a chameleon. I can entertain you. I can take the blame for it. I can win you over. I can. People, please.

I have so many tools in my toolkit.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

You're awesome at it. Yeah, well, practice.

[Kristin Carter]

Well practiced. But if I say, like, yeah, it is uncomfortable for me to say this, and I. I get that, and then that's it. Like, then there's no, like, me solving it for you, and I have to be uncomfortable with your discomfort and my discomfort. Yeah,

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

yeah, I know. It is a different skill. And because you're so good at the others, you haven't practiced that skill as much.

[Kristin Carter]

How do you help clients practice that skill, like, what is practically, how do you do that?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

I mean, I think it begins first with the awareness of, like, oh, wait, I lean hard on these skills that I'm good at, and they're easier, and I don't really do this one. So it's that awareness. I think it's also a sense of, like, deservingness, or it's okay, right? As in, like, I don't actually have to solve this for the other person. You know, it's okay for them to hold it themselves. So I think there's that. And, you know, that's the sort of theoretical. And then in the moment, like, boots on the ground, here we are. Right. How do you sort of remind yourself of that? How do you sort of hold in mind, like, why am I doing this? Why is this good for me? Maybe. Why is this good for the other person as well? Because it probably is. Even though they don't want it, you know, and really holding on to why this matters, or even if we want to go big picture, like integrity, how do I want to start showing up in a different way and that it feels uncomfortable and it's hard, but that doesn't mean it's not the right thing. It doesn't mean I can't do it. It doesn't mean it's not going to be better on the other side of it. But right now, boy, does it feel big and, you know, like, something I want to run away from and something

[Kristin Carter]

that I know I've used my other skills to get out of so many times. So, like, there's like a escape hatch if I want it.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Oh, I could just use the escape hatch and, like, take responsibility for it, even though it's not mine.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Bam. Done.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Oh, that is hard.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

It is. It's a big shift, but it's also, I think it's in. It's important to note that as much as you're really good at one side and not as good at the other, there's a lot of people in the world who are really good at the other side of it and not good enough at. You know, they're really good at pointing out everybody else's, but not as good at sort of recognizing their part of it. So it's not necessarily that one is better or worse than the other, but rather that, like, ideally, we can be good at both sides of it, you

[Kristin Carter]

know, That's a really good point. Like, strengthen the one side, not necessarily at the expense of the other. Is that what you're saying?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, I Mean, it's using it like the right thing at the right times and the right doses, you know, and frankly, most things, there's probably a bit of both. You know, like, I could have done this stuff a bit different. You could have done that stuff a bit different. You know, we have history here. People make assumptions, people misunderstand, people just plain disagree. Like, I don't see it the same way you do and never will, you know, so like, I mean, there's all of this and it's messy and whatever, but you know, I think to the extent that we can both sort of acknowledge our own part and see it, you know, truthfully and also be able to sort of speak truthfully when it's the other person's part, you know, and, and respectfully. Right. And be able to sort of balance it out somehow.

[Kristin Carter]

That's, I love that you brought in the gray area because my black and white brain is like, either I'm 100% people pleasing or I'm 100% standing like in my authority and you know, blah, blah, and like, no, there's like some

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

gray area here and mostly it's both.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Okay, so let's shift a little bit, actually a lot and talk about black and white thinking. In terms of productivity, I, what I see in myself and my clients is that maybe before we start like doing self development work and really unpacking our ADHD story, there is this ideal of productivity. Yeah, productivity looks exactly like this. And a lot of black and white thinking, like, if I'm doing X, Y, Z, I'm not productive. If, and I'm doing this over here, I am productive. Um, can you speak to that a little bit? Like what. Before people kind of interact, let's say, with your productivity content, what is a typical ADHD or thinking productivity looks like?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

I think it, it's, it's that standard neurotypical sort of cliche, right. I sit down and I just crank out four hours worth of whatever and it's always the most important stuff and I ignore the, you know, emails and the pings on my phone and I'm just like grinding away. Right? And I don't know, maybe sometimes, perhaps, but I don't know. I think if you aspire to something that is completely out of your wheelhouse, it's really demotivating because, you know, you're never going to get there, you know. So I think some of it is that that's on one side of it, I think at the other side is this notion of becoming really productive will be the salvation of my self esteem and place in the world.

[Kristin Carter]

You know, that was really important what you just said. I think a lot of people feel that way, right.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

That if I can really get things done, then I will be deserving of good things. And that is way too much pressure.

[Kristin Carter]

It breaks my heart.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, yeah. Because like, I mean, sure, we got to get stuff done, right? Life, you know, we got to restore order to the chaos of life and whatever. But like, I don't know, like it. It's too much, right. It's not helpful at that point. And again it becomes. It quickly flips over into demotivating rather than like inspiring. So. So I think taking more of a sort of middle ground, sort of a both and. Right. Sometimes I'm more productive, but sometimes I'm less. Maybe I know why, maybe I don't. Random. I don't know, whatever the clouds are doing or something, you know, like whatever. But here I am now. What is the next thing that I can do, you know, in a certain amount of, you know, bigger picture of like, what am I actually doing here? Like what really does a good life look like to me and what do I need to do to get a little bit closer to it? Right. And sometimes that means aspiring to something bigger. Sometimes it means cutting some other things back.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah, that can often be really difficult, I think because again, traditionally when we start this journey, maybe even when we're in the middle of the journey, we're thinking that a productive life looks exactly like this. Usually it's the neurotypical standard and there's also this kind of backlog of things that we want to do. These ideas, these things that we've kind of made in our mind that are like, if I can just get this done, then I'm gonna be happy. And I talk about it with my clients. Like we carry around this ball and chain of this to do list that's really never gonna get done. But because we have 150 things on that to do list, it slows down. Just the day to day productivity. Is that something that you see?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Oh, totally. And I mean the thing about it like that massive to do list is. It's not helpful.

[Kristin Carter]

No, it's not helpful.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

It isn't. It actually makes it worse.

[Kristin Carter]

I'm getting hot talking about it. It's not helpful. But people are so. And by people, I mean the clients that I love. Right. Like these wonderful, smart, educated adhders really are so attached to. Yeah, that, that. Sorry, that to do list.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Well, I think it. I think there's a double edged sword on it. Right. Because on the one hand, I think there's, there's a sort of hope that somehow, some way, someday they're going to get to all this stuff, you know? So I think there's, there's this grand aspiration, but I think there's also, it's sort of like to just cross it off undone becomes like the official, like, admission of failure, you know, Whereas if it's still on the list, it's somehow still in play in theory.

[Kristin Carter]

I haven't failed yet.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right, right. And you know, it's sort of my. I don't know, my joke from the pandemic is like, you were locked in your house for a year. If you didn't clean out your basement, like, seriously, you're not gonna. Right. You never had a better chance. Right. So wise words. Yeah. So the problem then becomes every time you look at your to do list, you see all this stuff that just stresses you out and makes you feel defeated, which is a really good reason to stop looking at your to do list. Right. Because it just stresses you out. But also the really important things get lost in the shuffle. Right. So part of managing a to do list is not only putting things on and by the way, deciding if it even makes the cut to be written down in the first place, but it also means trimming stuff off. And not only by actually accomplishing it, but also by looking at something and saying, your time has passed. See ya. Right. Not gonna happen. Moving on.

[Kristin Carter]

I think that the conversation then leads to, like, grieving the fact that you're just a human and grieving the fact that, like, we're not living in a fantasy, we're living in reality. Living in fantasy is really, really fun for a while, sure. But when you truly look at like your life, if you have kids, if you have a job, like whatever your life setup is in this season, and you look at like the 150 things on that list, there is grief around. Like, this is not going to get done. Like, I want, I want to do that. It would be great to get this done. It's just not gonna happen.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, yeah. And there's something very sort of freeing about that, you know, or it can be, it can also be a sense of guilt and failure, you know, so. And I'm not saying that sometimes that guilt and failure is inaccurate because, like, sometimes it is, right? Where it's like, yeah, I legit should have done, should have addressed this. I, I did indeed drop the ball on this.

[Kristin Carter]

Now I have a $3,000 bill because of it.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

So, you know, there could be very much tangible or social impacts about it. But at the risk, I don't want this to sound too sort of like cavalier or, you know, Pollyanna, but it's sort of, is there a lesson learned here? Is there something I need to do? Do I need to make some amends to somebody?

[Kristin Carter]

Right.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

You know, or do I, and, Or do I just need to kind of move on from this? Right. That like, beating myself up does not make it. It doesn't change the past. And by the way, it probably doesn't make me more likely to do the next thing.

[Kristin Carter]

You know, I have this concept that I talk about sometimes, which is like archival. When you have your inbox and it's just like you have 750,000 emails that you're just like, I'm going to get to this someday. I just love the concept of like, if it's important, they're going to email back or I can search for it. I'm just going to archive it.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

And I have done that many times, Many times where I'm just like, you know what? I can't just look at this clutter and tell myself, I'll get to it. I'll get to it. I'll get to it. It's. It's literally weighing my me down and hampering. Hampering.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Dampening. I'm not sure, but it's making me less productive.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

In the day to day. So I'm just going to archive it. And I think that that concept can and should be applied to our to do lists as well, where it's like, I'm going to wake up with a clean slate and I'm just going to decide today, like, I'm going to archive that to do list and I'm going to grieve it and I'm going to feel the feelings, but I'm going to do it. I'm going to empower myself to say, eh, I'm. No, I'm just going to archive it. And then I'm going to wake up today and I'm going to say, what's the most important thing for today? And that's going to go on the list. Right. Like, what are the two things that have to be done today? To me, that's a much more freeing way to approach productivity.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. And I think that sometimes that needs to be done. I've. I've heard it called declaring inbox bankruptcy.

[Kristin Carter]

I declare bankruptcy. That's so good.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Because it's Sort of. It's the recognition that this isn't working. Like, I know it would be good for me to address these, but the problem is I won't. Like, I'm not going to get there. So by clearing the decks, the theory is it helps you then start fresh and actually then get to the stuff that really matters the most. Right. The stuff that's more current, that's more urgent, that people are contacting you about. But. But, you know, I sort of think about it when people say, oh, I can't cut anything. I have to do all of these things. Right. They're all mandatory. I always think about these situations, you know, usually they're unfortunate life circumstances, but like you have a parent hospital or like you need surgery or, I don't know, you break a leg or one of your kids is sick or. Right. And the, you know, and all of a sudden there's a lot of stuff on that to do list that you absolutely had to do. Somehow you find a way to not do them and the world doesn't end, you know, so let's not wait for someone to get cancer before we decide that, you know, you can tell the school bake sale that you're not making brownies or whatever, or tell somebody at work, like, I can't handle this project, I need to give it to somebody else. Right. So.

[Kristin Carter]

So good.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Because otherwise, you know, you're in this impossible situation where you're always chasing, but you're not necessarily doing the most important thing, you know, so. So when the to do list or the inbox or the whatever grows faster than it shrinks, I always sort of. My first thought is, is this a problem that too much is getting added in and you need to reduce the flow of emails or inbox or to do list items or whatever and. Or is it a problem? Not enough is going out. Right. So do we need to somehow help you be more productive or to focus in or like some other thing? Right. So like we're going to look at the in and the out and then figure out where we go from there.

[Kristin Carter]

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[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

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[Kristin Carter]

How do you help people decide what, what is most important?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right? That is a, that is a big hard question, right?

[Kristin Carter]

Like can't you just answer it in

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

three easy steps so you get out markers and then you. Right? So like, I mean this is where like big values sort of come in, you know, like really what is most important to me? How do I want to be in the world? Where do I want to put more energy? What therefore by process of elimination gets less energy, right? So like really sort of thinking about, being clear about like what am I doing here in this stage of my life, you know, which might be different in a later one or was different in a previous one. But like these days, really big picture, what am I trying to do? And then from there sort of coming down to like what do I do in the next minute? I'm not going to in any way say that's easy. But you know, but I think it, that is the deal, right? If you're not clear on where you're trying to end up. Then everything is important.

[Kristin Carter]

The hard thing with that is that. And I was thumbing through your book yesterday in preparation for this conversation. You talk about how hard it is for ADHDers to conceptualize the future.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

So that presents a pretty big barrier for us.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

It does, it does. And that. So some of it is about kind of feeling the future. Right. And really being clear about, you know, I don't know, the timing of things, especially stuff that has longer timeframes. Right. There's also that whole kind of working memory thing of, like, can you hold in mind all the different things involved? And I think in both cases, having less of it in your head and more of it sort of out here. Right. So having it written, writing stuff down, moving things around, making it big, making it colorful, highlighting things, you know, or talking it through with other people, whether it's a spouse or a friend or a coach or a therapist, but like, really sort of figuring out, like, not just what, but also why, you know, and then from there, trying to sort of piece it together. And I, you know, I suppose in theory we do this, you know, at New Year's, you know, New Year's Eve, but, you know, also at other times, maybe at other times it transitions to, like, you know, our kid. Our last kid is out of middle school and into high school or whatever. Right. These, like, life transition times to sort of, like, reassess and think about is what I'm doing still working for me. And that's not necessarily easy, but otherwise, we're just running on autopilot.

[Kristin Carter]

So.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

True. So. So, yeah, there's a lot. Life is hard, it turns out.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah. And I think that the point should be made that life is hard for everybody. I know that it's hard in a. In a very unique way for people with adhd, but life is hard for everybody. And I think that we have. At least I have thought this before where it's like, it's so much easier for everybody else. What? I just. Like, everybody else seems to have it figured out, and I don't. And while there may be a, you know, some truth to that, there are things that are easier, maybe for a neurotypical brain. Life is still hard for everybody.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Nobody gets to escape the human experience.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. Right. They might have different struggles.

[Kristin Carter]

Sure.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

You know, but. But, yeah, I mean, life is hard. And again, different stages of life and different things going on. But, you know, I think some of it is, you know, and this applies to folks with adhd. It applies to other People for other reasons, but, you know, really trying to be intentional about the situations you put yourself in, about what you take on, about what you got around you. Right. It's easier to manage the stuff outside than it is to manage our response inside. So, you know, really being intentional about sort of what you let into your. In being intentional about what you let into your attention.

[Kristin Carter]

Oh, that's good.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

It took me a minute to. I had to see the words in my head.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

I really like that. Being intentional about what you allow into your attention.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

I have been thinking, like, attention is our most prized commodity.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

And I think often we feel like we squander it, but we're not all bad. And if we can find the thing that matters, we're like a dog with a bone. Like, we can't be stopped. We're at episode 400. Right. Like, that's so much of what thriving with ADHD is, I think, is like finding the dopamine that is actually leading you in the direction that you want to go.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Yeah. And that. I mean, attention is our most prized commodity. And, you know, there's all sorts of stuff out there about kind of the whole attention economy and people who are working to get our attention and not always in kind of clear and ethical. Ethical ways. So. Yeah. I mean, however True this was 20 years ago, I think it's even more true now of really being sort of, you know, I don't know, a shepherd of your attention or something, you know, and being clear about, like, what you even let in.

[Kristin Carter]

Why do you think it's so hard for us to have those boundaries and. And kind of not be so porous when we're letting things in? I think it can be really hard for us to say no. We want to take a ton of opportunities. We have major fomo. Like, everything sounds great and exciting and good, and if so. And so asked me to do it, then I should probably do it. But, like, what do you see additionally? Or, like, how can we mitigate that?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

I mean, I think the whole porous thing is things that are interesting are hard to say no to. Yeah. Right. And especially we're talking about online content. It is very intentionally made as interesting and compelling as possible.

[Kristin Carter]

And addictive.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yes. I mean, it is. Like, there are absolutely really smart people who spend all day doing the tiny tweaks that keep people slightly more engaged. So, like, we are fighting against the experts on this and that. You know, kind of back to what you said before about kind of feeling the future, you know, like, folks with ADHD are not as attuned to the future. All this stuff that's interesting is interesting right now. Right. But it's not necessarily good for us later. So, like, it is. It's that battle between the present and the future that we all face as humans. But with adhd, the present has a little bit more of a thumb on the scale. Right. You tip a bit more towards whatever right now is going to feel better, whether it's clicking some flashy, stupid thing online that turns out to be much less interesting than it was supposed to be, or even back to what we were saying before of, like, letting that other person off the hook, right. Of, like, sitting in the tension of that moment being like, okay, I give first, right? So, like, so the present is going to pull harder, which means it's that much more important to really sort of focus on the future, to try to feel the future consequence, to put yourself into that future moment and to remind yourself of the bigger picture and why it matters.

[Kristin Carter]

Is that like a meditative exercise that you help people with or, like, how. How. How does someone practically do that?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Like, if I. If it's me, like, how do I do that? If I. If I'm not good at feeling the future? If I'm only concerned, like, kind of led by the end of my nose, you know, what's right in front of me. How do you help someone kind of expand that even into just like the next hour or like tonight or tomorrow?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, I think it's a matter of, you know, I keep using the word intentional. Right. So it is that. But let's also be honest. Just being intentional is not enough. Right. Anyone who's tried to diet has realized just being intentional. Great intentions only takes you so far.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

So, you know, but still, like, it is really being intentional. It's about kind of being honest with yourself about, like, I need to just not do this. So after I put the kids to bed, I cannot pick up my phone, you know, because if I do, I know what happens, you know? So some of it is about that, you know, medication can really help with some of this. Really making an effort to do this stuff, to take more care of yourself. So, like, this is a boring thing. Nobody wants but, like, sleep, diet, exercise, Right. Generally taking care of yourself. Because if you're running on fumes, like, we just have less resistance and less willpower, you know, so really being intentional about that stuff. And, you know, I don't know, it's just. It's all the. It's those million little things. That make a difference.

[Kristin Carter]

I agree with that. I remember when I was just first starting the podcast, and it was so hard for me to sit and record, and I was dealing with adhd, but I was also dealing with, like, a lot of fear and, like, what are people gonna think? And it was just really, really, really hard. I purchased what I lovingly termed a phone jail.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yes.

[Kristin Carter]

And it was this, I think. I mean, this is, in my opinion, horrifying, but I think it was designed for people to, like, keep donuts in, like, keep themselves away from food, which I just. I have lots of thoughts and feelings about that. But I used it as a phone jail. And so it was this, like, contraption where I put it in. I could set the timer for two hours, and there's literally no way to access it without. This was before, you know, apps that would block your screen time. We've come so far.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

We've come so far. But I would lock my phone. So, like, I wasn't. I wouldn't say I was thriving, but I was making small decisions that I knew would be supportive of what I wanted. I knew I wanted to record.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

I knew my phone was not just a distraction, but an escape from the discomfort of what I was making myself do.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

And I would just put it into jail and literally would not be able to get in without a chainsaw.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Unless, you know, until the timer goes up.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. So the thing about it is, like, again, this is very intentional on your part. Right. There's a recognition. If this is available, I'm going to go there instead of doing the other thing, at least more often than I would like. And whether it's phones or donuts or, you know, alcohol or whatever. Right. So, like, that was very wise on your part. You knew yourself well enough to know this is trouble. Right. The fact that this device exists at all means you're not the only person in the world who struggles.

[Kristin Carter]

It's probably still available on Amazon.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

And now there are actual phone cases.

[Kristin Carter]

Oh, interesting.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Literally, like that, you put your phone in and it locks it away for a certain amount of time. So there's those. There's physical devices, there's, as you said, there's apps and stuff. The thing about it, none of these things have the word ADHD in the Amazon description or in the title. Right. So this is human number one. But the thing about it is, using these phone limiters, whether it's a physical box or a software, is my least effective intervention. Right. I. The batting average I have on how often I suggested the clients and how often they use it, it is terrible. Right. Nobody wants to use them. Right. Because they want to use their phones.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

But the thing of it is, the way that I approach it, obviously I'm not telling people what to do, because it's your life, your choice. But if you are telling me I keep struggling with too much time on my phone, or I'm not, I'm staying up too late, and then I'm tired and you're not then using the interventions that are going to be helpful, it makes me wonder, right? Then we're going to have a discussion about, is this really your goal? Because it seems like it isn't. Or there's something else getting in the way. Maybe we need to figure that out. Right. But it's sort of like people don't like the idea of these limitations, even though they know it's good for them. So you were doing better than the vast majority of people I talked to on that one.

[Kristin Carter]

That's so true. Because there is this element of, like, no, I'm in charge here. I get to do what I want.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

And don't tell me what to do.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Which is like, yes, same. But also, if I have something that I want, like, what do I want more? I guess that's the question, Right?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. And I mean, the thing of it is, if you're doing it for somebody else, Right. So you're a teenager, your parents are making you lock your phone, or if your spouse is, you know, getting on your case and you're like, fine, I'll put my phone. Right. Clearly that's not a good setup. But, you know, when it's, you know, us, ourselves doing it, it's the present me versus the future me. Right. Present me wants to screw around on my phone. Future me will wish I hadn't done that. Right. So. So, like that. That again, it's that present versus future. And am I going to do this stuff now that possibly is less fun but is better for me later, or am I going to do this stuff that's more fun now, even if later I pay a price? And, like, obviously we're not. I don't think nobody's espousing. You should be 100% productive. 100% of it. Sometimes it's nice to just mindlessly scroll something stupid or watch some fun, dumb show just because we can let our brain coast a little bit. Totally. But that's different. Like, I'm deciding this is what I'm doing versus later saying, like, ugh, damn it. I wish I had, you know, earlier, done this other thing.

[Kristin Carter]

I just lost three hours. And I didn't even realize that the time went by.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. So I think the way that. And this kind of really became clear to me as I was writing the book is it's really about regret. Right. Meaning you yourself, in a later moment, will you regret the thing that you did? Right. So sometimes the example I give is if I go to a concert and I get home late, but it was a good show. I don't regret it. Like, I'm tired tomorrow. But, like, that was totally worth it. I would definitely do it again. Love that band. Right. But, you know, if you stay up watching some dumb show that you could totally just watch tomorrow, it wasn't really that good. Right. Then you're tired. But it didn't feel worth it. And that's where the regret comes from.

[Kristin Carter]

Like reruns of the Office again.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

Kept me up until 2am Again.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Love the Office.

[Kristin Carter]

That feels like regret.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

But you could have watched those episodes the next day and you've already seen them. Right? Right, exactly.

[Kristin Carter]

Do you think that, like, trying to connect to that regret is a good way to feel into the future? Like, what is it gonna feel like if I don't do this?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

I think it's half of a good. It's. No, it's 40% of a good way. And that'll give you the other.

[Kristin Carter]

Not even half.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right, Right. So simply avoiding a negative, it is motivating, but it's not the best motivator. Right. And part of the problem with avoiding negatives is we'll only do enough to avoid the negative and then that's it. Right. But, like, removal of negatives is like, I don't know. I've never seen an inspirational poster with a kitten hanging off a branch that said, just don't get in trouble. Right. Like, that would not sell well. Rather, what are the positives you're getting? Right. And I think that this is. And this is another thing that really came clear in writing the book is it's about making your life better. Right. What makes your life bigger, more interesting, more meaningful? Like, what does a good life feel like? Let's get more of that. Rather than simply dodging bullets and not getting found out.

[Kristin Carter]

And that is such a good question. When we even circle back to the to do list, 150 things on that list, how many of these things are actually going to move the needle of my life in the direction of where I wanna go? And how many of these things are things that I'VE just along the way, seen someone else do. So I'm like, oh, I should probably do that too. Or I'm, like, sitting in my kitchen, I'm like, you know, it'd be great if this kitchen was green. And then all of a sudden, it goes on the list. Not because it's gonna change anything about my life necessarily, but it's like, now I've just decided that this is something that I have, and, like, I've literally done this. So this is a real life example where it's like, now the only thing I can think about is, like, my kitchen should be green. That's not moving the needle in any direction other than distracting me from the real world and the work of my life. So asking yourself that question about the to do list and then crossing things off that don't meet that criteria.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. The kitchen meeting green is interesting, but it's not necessarily useful.

[Kristin Carter]

Yes.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Yes. That's so good. And then what happens is I decide that I want it to be green on a whim, and then I use that to beat myself up for, like, three years.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Where it's just like, oh, man, I freaking said I was going to paint this kitchen, and I never did. I never do what I say I'm going to do.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

And, you know, I just. Now I'm unsatisfied with whatever the color is right now, even though it's a perfectly fine color. And I just use that to weigh me down, which I think is what so many of us do with our list.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. And I think, you know, what's sort of interesting about that is that if you're never getting to it of, like, we're never painting the kitchen, maybe it's because it was. It never really made the cut. It was a nice idea, and maybe it was a pretty good idea, but it wasn't a good enough idea that you're like, honey, get the tarp. I'm going to Home Depot. Right. So, like, you know, but that's the stuff that hangs on us. Right. It's too good to cut it loose, but it's not good enough to actually get done. Right. So I feel like these are the things that maybe you put over here on another list, not your active working list.

[Kristin Carter]

You know, I call that the idea parking lot.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Ooh, yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

I'm just gonna park it.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

It's not. I'm not burying it. I'm not burning it. I'm not killing it, but I have a parking lot for those ideas that are like, this is a Great idea. If I Someday, right? If this gets done someday. That would be really nice.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

And I feel like that's a nice in between I found for clients who are not ready to kill the idea. It's like my baby, you know, like, don't make me. Don't make me get rid of it. It's like, okay, can we just park it in this parking lot over here? So it's not on your everyday or every weekend, you know, list where it's just like, oh, it's the weekend again. Should I paint the kitchen? Like, let's just put it on this idea. Parking lot situation over there.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. And it's a great way because it's feels then it's like, it's okay. It doesn't feel like this big loss, right? Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

But it's. It never gets done.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Oh, no.

[Kristin Carter]

And it's totally fine, right? It's totally, totally, totally fine. One thing that I, I think that we don't think about is what will this cost me if I actually do it?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right?

[Kristin Carter]

Right. Like, okay, I want the kitchen to be green. Do I want to wipe down all the walls, tape it with painter's tape, Go find the right color, go back to the store 700 times, spend the 20 hours painting, probably then get paint on the floor. Have to like, am I willing to actually pay the cost for it? And sometimes that is a good way to like, get the things off our list. Like how, what will this actually cost me?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

And am I willing to pay that price?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good way to sort of convince yourself that it isn't worth it. But it's also like the reason why it isn't getting done is because of all that.

[Kristin Carter]

A hundred percent. And it makes sense.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

Like, no wonder why I haven't done it.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

So kind of being able to be okay with that. But I think, you know, I mean, the other thing is you want to have more ideas and then time, Right. It's kind of like if you're bored with nothing to do, then it's because you don't have enough interesting ideas. Right. So you want to be someone with lots of interesting ideas and that way only the best ones make the cut.

[Kristin Carter]

Yes. I love that. Okay, so once we have decided that something is important, we're kind of feeling into the future. We're like, yes, this matters. This is going to move the needle forward. It's worth paying the price for it. How do we actually do it?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

So let's take this painting, the kitchen example that it actually is worth it for some reasons. Whatever. Right. So I think some of it is really then being intentional about, like, if this is a thing I've decided to do, what am I actually doing it? Like, in real life? Like, looking at the schedule, when is this actually going to happen? And if I am going to do it, what then isn't happening? You know? So some of it is really being intentional about that, which might also help you decide, actually, at least for now. This ain't a thing that's going to happen. So, you know, but whatever. But let's say you do decide that it is. I think also then in terms of getting started, you know, like, beginning to do this stuff. Like, beginning to sort of touch the things of, like, let me at least go down into the basement and I'm get all the painting stuff. I'm at least going to bring it up here. Or I'm just going to look to see, like, do we have.

[Kristin Carter]

What do we have?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, exactly. Or let me just measure up and get a ballpark of the square footage so I can begin to think about how many cans we're going to need. Right. Just like any of those small first steps to begin to put some things in motion, to begin to make it a little bit more real. Right. So that there's, like, some momentum that builds so it doesn't feel like this big, insurmountable task.

[Kristin Carter]

That's really, really good. How do we then take those first steps of. The paint stuff is up. It's now all over the kitchen. The kids are walking around it.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Sure.

[Kristin Carter]

The spouse is like, okay. Other things come up. More important than painting, obviously. Pretty much everything else is. But that's okay. There's then this, like, kind of. I know people have described as like, the wall of awful.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Of like, now I have, like, there is nothing else for me to do other than do it.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

That's not really fun.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

And the doing of it is not really that fun. My back's going to hurt and I'm going to make a mess and blah, blah, blah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

How do we kind of get over that hurdle?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

So I think it. I mean, some of it might be like, what can you do to make this more fun?

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. So is there.

[Kristin Carter]

Should there be alcohol involved?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Maybe. Depends how well you paint.

[Kristin Carter]

Right.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Maybe you find an awesome podcast.

[Kristin Carter]

Listen to that's. Hello. That idea.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Honey. I'm learning so many things. I'm becoming a better person, really, by doing this. So if you could take all the kids to soccer today, that would Be great. You know, it's raining, but still love it. Yeah. So. But yeah, like, maybe that's part of it. Right. How do I make this less awful? Or is there something kind of like, is there something that is hard to sort of mentally get yourself over? As in, like, maybe painting is not a great example, but something where it's, like, harder and you're like, I don't know if I know how to do this right. Or I'm worried I'm going to do it badly or, you know, any of the other stuff that kind of jams on the brakes or makes a bigger hump to get over. So what do I need to figure out? What do I need to decide? Who can I call in? You know, so, like, I don't know what color of green, so. And I don't want to spend all the time and then hate it. So. Okay, so who can I talk to? Or could I try a couple swatches? Or do I have a friend who's got great taste or she knows what I like, so let me ask her, or I can bounce it off or whatever, you know? But what are the. What are the humps that are getting in the way? And how do you get yourself. What. What do you need to do specifically to get yourself that.

[Kristin Carter]

I really love the question, how can I make this more fun? I think it applies to lots of things. Every moment of the day, how. And alcohol should not be involved.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. Not with painting, not beforehand, not with most things. Right, Right. Right.

[Kristin Carter]

That should not be the solution, I don't think. But what can I do? Who can I include? Who can I, like, collaborate with? Yeah. Like music, podcasts, cookies. I mean, what is it that's gonna just give that little bit of dopamine that will make this more palatable for me?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Because the less willpower it takes to muscle your way through, muscle to start, muscle to the end, the less willpower it takes, the more likely you are to start it, to get further along, to finish it. You know, it's sort of like when I talk to clients about getting in the gym more or working out more. If you hate it, you're not going to do it. Right. If it's boring, if it's frustrating, if it's annoying that you need to wait for machines or, like, you're just stacking the deck against you. Right. And if it's hard enough to make it happen, don't make it harder and don't beat yourself up that other people just somehow make it happen, you know? But rather, how do I make this somehow more enjoyable, somehow easier, less friction, whatever it is. So you're more likely to actually show up and then do the thing.

[Kristin Carter]

I think that goes back to like accepting yourself, understanding your brain, and knowing that you don't have to look like a neurotypical robot.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

So like exercise can look a hundred different ways. It doesn't even have to be in a gym. I just, I like made a declaration probably 10 years ago where I was like, I'm never going to a gym. My husband goes all the time. He also follows an app. I've already said this. Listeners already know this. But he follows an app that just tells him what to do and he does it. The app is like, do this. And he's like, okay.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right.

[Kristin Carter]

I could never. I would never. To me, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What if it tells you an exercise that you're like, you don't want to

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

do in that I'm just bad knees. I can't do that.

[Kristin Carter]

I would never. And he just like to do. Follows it, you know, step by step, by himself, nobody, no accountability. He just goes and he does it. I'm just like, okay, for me, exercise. And I know this is like a dumb example, but I think it applies to most things in life. I. Because I know me. I know exercise needs to be outside, it needs to be in nature, it needs to be fun, it needs to be create. I need to be like on a hike with a weighted vet. It just, it's not gonna look like me in a gym following an app. And that's okay. And I think, I mean, you said this an hour ago. Just understanding that it doesn't have to look like everybody else.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

I think can just flip the switch enough for us where we say, okay, even this project at work, like, what is it? What if it doesn't have to look like all of my colleagues was. What if my process doesn't have to be exactly the same? What does it look like for me to get this done? I think can change everything.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, figure out what is the easiest of the possible ways to do it.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

And it might be that you need to explain it to some other people. Right. Especially we're talking about work.

[Kristin Carter]

Sure.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

You know that, like, I know my way is a little different, but you know, that's fine. I'm still going to get to the end. Right. And I think to not be too self conscious about it, because if you explain it in a very like, apologetic. I know it's Weird, please don't judge me way, then people get weird and probably judgmental, you know, Whereas if you're

[Kristin Carter]

funny how that works.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah, I know. Whereas if you're just matter of fact, you're like, well, for me, this is really the best way to do it. So, you know, the important thing is the end result. So here's how I'm going to do it.

[Kristin Carter]

Sure.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Great. Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

I love the idea of taking the path of least, least resistance. And I think that so often we don't afford ourselves that luxury because again, we have this notion that, like, there is the one right way. And obviously I don't know the right way, but, like, somebody does and I should probably do it their way.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

Like, if it's possible to just take the path of least resistance and let your ADHD creativity kind of take over, if that is possible within the, like, boundaries of your work environment or whatever you're doing, I think that that sets us up for magic because then we

can be so productive and it might

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

be a thing that. Where you can do that, you do it.

[Kristin Carter]

Yeah.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

And then there's other places where you can't. You just got to do the standard boring way. And that's fine. Like, we all have that parts of our day. But you will have more willpower, more mental bandwidth, more energy to grind it out the hard way on some things,

[Kristin Carter]

on the things that you have to do.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Right. If you give yourself a little bit of permission to do the other stuff in other ways.

[Kristin Carter]

Such a good point. Like letting your capacity kind of ebb and flow and really spending that energy where you have to and then giving yourself ease where you. Where you can just chill.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah.

[Kristin Carter]

I love that I could talk to you forever, but we're at the hour mark. Can you believe it? Time flies. Time flies. Thank you so much. Tell us about your book and where we can find it. Where should we buy it?

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

So ADHD Productivity Manual. It's available all over the place. It's available, you know, obviously, paper, ebook, also it's available as an audiobook, which I recorded right here in this studio, which is awesome.

[Kristin Carter]

I love that.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

So. So, yeah, I mean, get it in whatever way works best for you. And if you get it in paper, mark it up like crazy.

[Kristin Carter]

Lots of space in there to fill in answers. It's very like. I wouldn't say it's a workbook, but it has. There are aspects of it that have a workbook feel, which I love.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

Yeah. Because I mean, books are interesting, but you want to actually change your life. So Right. You know, so there's that. But even if you get it in ebook or audiobook, on my website, drartuchman.com, there's a PDF of all of those places to fill stuff in, which you can also do if you get it on paper. You don't want to like, you know, scribble up in your book or let other people find it or something. So. So yeah, so yeah, so like do the work, right? Like mess it up, dog ear it, do whatever, yell at it. You know, do the things that will make it the most beneficial to to your real life.

[Kristin Carter]

So good. Highly recommend everybody go buy it. Thank you for being here. Appreciate you.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

It is always fun to hang out with you. Like I said, I will. I should say not. I said almost always say yes.

[Kristin Carter]

I'm in a whole.

[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

I will always say yes. So yeah, it is great to be here with you on this one.

[Kristin Carter]

A few years ago, I went looking for help. I wanted to find someone to teach me how to feel better about myself and to help me improve my organization, productivity, time management, emotional regulation. You know, all the things that we adults with ADHD struggle with. I couldn't find anything, so I researched and I studied and I hired coaches and I figured it out. Then I created Focused for you. Focused is my monthly coaching membership where I teach educated professional adults how to accept their ADHD brain and hijack their ability to get stuff done. Hundreds of people from all over the world are already benefiting from this program and I'm confident that you will too. Go to ihaveadhd.com focused for all the details.

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[Dr. Ari Tuckman]

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[Kristin Carter]

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