← I Have ADHD Podcast
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- [00:01]
Kristin Carter
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- [00:37]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [01:51]
Kristin Carter
Welcome to the I have ADHD Podcast where it's all about education, encouragement and coaching for adults with adhd. I'm your host Kristin Carter and I have adhd. Let's chat about the frustrations, humor and challenges of adulting, relationships, working and achieving with this neurodevelopmental disorder. I'll help you understand your unique brain, unlock your potential and move from point A to point B. Hey, what's up? This is Kristin Carter and you've tuned in to the I have ADHD Podcast and I'm I am medicated, caffeinated, regulated and ready to Roll. Speaking of regulation, that is exactly what we're talking about today with my guest Jennifer. I'm really pleased to have her here with me today. I've been following her on Instagram for a couple years. Feel like we're kind of besties but have never met in real life. So now we get to hang out for real virtually, unfortunately. But at least it's better than nothing. We're gonna have a great conversation today about regulation. What does have to do with adhd? Why does it matter? How can we get there? She has a brand new book out which I love, enjoyed very much and it's colorful, it has these beautiful illustrations. It came with stickers. I was so excited. I loved it so much. Highly, highly recommend. But let me tell you a little bit about her. So Jennifer is a counselor for adhd. With adhd, she specializes in working with the ADHD brain to get it out of fight or flight and into working its best while honoring neurodivergence and all of our uniqueness. She has a focus on making ADHDers lives more enjoyable. Yes, I'm obsessed while also being more productive. Jenna lives in Calgary, Alberta with her husband and two sons. Jenna, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you.
- [03:45]
Jennifer (Guest)
I'm so happy to be here.
- [03:47]
Kristin Carter
So pleased to have you. So I wanted to just do a little callback to a time that I've actually mentioned you on this podcast, which is when I came across one of your reels in years ago and you talked about this phrase or this term or whatever title of being local sober. And I was like, yes, that's what I am, that's what I need. And my audience knows I've been on a sobriety journey, was highly addicted to alcohol, didn't work a program. You know, I'm not like technically sober, but been really working on my relationship with alcohol and have been virtually alcohol free. Although when I am not in Pennsylvania, I will occasionally have an alcoholic beverage. And it has worked really well for me to give myself the freedom when I am somewhere else. We were just in Punta Cana and I had a little margarita at the resort. It was wonderful. I had like half of a margarita and it was like, that was great. That was enough. It was wonderful. So different from drinking three glasses of wine every single night. Two glasses calm my nervous system at home. And so I was just curious, is that something that you came up with that concept or did you like borrow it from someone else?
- [05:06]
Jennifer (Guest)
No, that's kind of how my journey with alcohol, where this is not the point of my Work, but it definitely ties in. Yeah, I was never a big drinker, so I will say I don't think I ever had a problem with alcohol, but I knew it. Never. Like, every time I drank, I'd like, oh, I feel horrible. Like, it really affected me physically a lot, yet I would still do it. You know, every time you go for dinner, every time you're with friends, I'm drinking. And, like, why. I don't even like this every time I do it. So I started with, like, you know, trying, oh, a month, I'm not going to drink at all. Then, you know, it slowly trickled into, wow, that felt really good. But of course there's a tug of war. It's very social, and if you have adhd, maybe you're more socially uncomfortable. So it's. It's a bit of a lubricant. But then I eventually was like, well, I'll just. I'll just drink when I travel, when I'm on vacation.
- [05:57]
Kristin Carter
Yeah.
- [05:58]
Jennifer (Guest)
So then I had local, sober. And funny enough, I was in Croatia September 2024. Now I, me and my best friend, we went for 35th birthdays to Croatia. Left the kids at home. It was so fun. And we got to this, like, the most beautiful hotel I've ever stayed in. I was handed a glass of champagne. We're drinking the champagne. I went, I feel shit. Like, this is the most beautiful place I've ever been in. And this just made it worse. I feel shittier. And that's the last drink I had. I have not had a drink in a year and a half.
- [06:32]
Kristin Carter
I love it.
- [06:32]
Jennifer (Guest)
And I. I know that that's. It's like I slowly eased into complete sobriety because I am more regulated. So it's like, yes, that will help with your regulation. But because I'm regulated, it's like I don't need much anymore. Which has been so cool, is like, I'm good. I feel whole, I feel present, I feel calm. Obviously not all the time. I'm a human being, but my, like, primal self is okay. That kind of deep part of me is. Doesn't. There's no void there. There's no intensity and anxiety all the time.
- [07:07]
Kristin Carter
Yeah.
- [07:07]
Jennifer (Guest)
So it just felt like a natural next step to go. I'm good. And. And I don't have any rigidity around it. You know, I'm not like, you're not allowed to drink now, Jenna. It's just a genuine, like, wow, this is really serving me well. I feel so good. I just feel no need for it.
- [07:22]
Kristin Carter
I love that so much. And. And I totally agree with, like, the less you have and the longer it goes between drinking, then when you do, you're kind of like, like, it's just like, why? Like, I wake up in the middle of the night and my cortisol spikes, or I wake up the next morning with a headache. It' like, why and why did I do this for so long? And I do know the answer to that because I was extremely dysregulated. It was a tool that I accessed for calm, and it served a purpose. It really did. So I don't begrudge myself or anyone else who uses it as a tool. It's just a matter of, like, at some point does it become a net negative? And for me, it absolutely did. Especially, like, getting into my 40s and, like, I noticed my body and brain were just, like, not happy. It was like, what are you doing to us?
- [08:19]
Jennifer (Guest)
Why are you doing this?
- [08:22]
Kristin Carter
So I just. I appreciate that you coined that term because now I borrow it and I use it constantly. So the one thing I will say is that when we go to Oktoberfest every year, our. The reading leader, Kranz, hosts, like, an Oktoberfest. I don't know if this translates to Canada. Do you guys have Oktoberfest in Canada?
- [08:40]
Jennifer (Guest)
Probably. I mean, I know what it is. Okay. You know what it is?
- [08:42]
Kristin Carter
Okay. That is the only time where I'm like, I know I'm in Pennsylvania, but technically I'm in Germany, so I will have a German beer. That's the only time.
- [08:52]
Jennifer (Guest)
It's like, I am spiritually in Germany.
- [08:54]
Kristin Carter
Exactly. It's like, twice a year. It's like vacation and Oktoberfest. I love it. That's so great. So let's go ahead and talk about regulation. And you were very clear to make the point, as we were kind of just chatting before recording that we're not talking about emotional regulation, we're talking about nervous system regulation. And I would love for you to define for my audience, what's the difference between the two, and why does it matter?
- [09:20]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yes, some people might think it's semantics, but I think language is so important to know what you're really working on. Because emotional regulation, if you look up the definition is like, you don't have control over your emotions. So it's the, you know, the outpouring of feelings that's the problem. But when we look at nervous system regulation, it's like this. The emotions is a symptom of something deeper, which is the nervous system feeling unsafe. So if people are working on emotional regulation, they might look at like, let me not be so reactive, I shouldn't be feeling so much. I should be, you know, not as upset on the surface where that is just, you know, five dominoes away from the core of the problem, which is your nervous system is in fight or flight. So when I work with people and we talk about nervous system regulation, I just think it's clearer in our mind. What am I actually doing here? What am I trying to do? I'm not trying to fake calm more often. I'm not trying to hold my emotions back. I'm actually trying to heal the central thing that's causing me to be more reactive. Because of course, if your system feels unsafe, something I would tell everyone is in this work you really want to start seeing yourself for what you are, which is a very primal animal. We love to think, oh, we're humans, we're so complex and interesting. You are an interesting person. But we are still just little animals afraid and trying to make ourselves feel safe. So if you don't feel safe, that is like functioning at, you know, like you are at your limit all day, every day. And if one more person says one more thing, yeah, I'm gonna flip my lid. Which is an actual psychological term. So if you're not functioning at that level and you're functioning for those listening, I'm putting my hand like a chest level. If I'm functioning where like I'm filled up to here, yeah, I've got room for an inconvenience happening, someone annoying me, my kids being loud, I'm not going to be as reactive naturally. It's a byproduct of nervous system regulation. Whereas if we focus on the emotions, we think the feelings are the problem when they're not.
- [11:33]
Kristin Carter
How does someone know if their nervous system is dysregulated? What are the signs? How would a listener be able to self identify like, oh yeah, I do think that, that it is nervous system regul dysregulation.
- [11:46]
Jennifer (Guest)
Well, I'm going to say some symptoms and everyone's going to say, wasn't that just adhd? And that's the whole thing is being dysregulated and having adhd, or at least the list of symptoms that are under the ADHD diagnosis are very similar. So when you put those two together, it's a real blow up of struggle. So you know, there's the physical signs. So heart racing, any physical signs of anxiety, rushing. Our, our intense impatience is not innate. It is not inevitable. That is a System in fight or flight. You know, physically rushing, mentally rushing and impatience. And then we have the mental signs. Rumination, overwhelm, anxiety. Anxiety is just your system feeling unsafe. Right. I need to think about the future and what's going to happen. I got to keep myself safe. Hypervigilance, we have behavioral signs. So this is like you're talking about alcohol compulsive behavior. If you're drinking and you can't not. Of course I'm not really talking about addiction, but like the soothingness of it is so compulsive that you, you know, if I said, okay, let's just, we're going to work on not drinking and you can't not. Yep, that is a sign scrolling compulsively spending compulsively. Any, any substance use compulsively. Eating compulsively if you have a tricky relationship with food. And then there's also kind of what I would call more self care signs. So I have to go to the bathroom, I have to go pee and I'm not getting up. I'm using that to create urgency to, for me to get things done, you know. And we make jokes like oh, ADHDers even procrastinate going to the bathroom. It's like, that's not what that is. That is being in fight or flight, not eating throughout the day. And then also what was the other one? Oh yes, not making yourself comfortable. So if you're freezing cold, doing your work, you're just like, well just hammer this out first. But you just like stop and go get a sweater. Why am I not taking care of my needs? Yeah, that would be a sign that we're dysregulated.
- [14:07]
Kristin Carter
That does just sound like adhd. So how do we, how do we. There's so many questions that I have here. So where do I want to start? I'm taking a stop and think. If you're in the listening audience, my eyes are closed and I'm taking a little stop and think here because everything you described, I'm like check, check, check, check, check. Maybe we should talk about like what's at the heart of the fight or flight for somebody with adhd. Why are we in that fight or flight to begin with?
- [14:39]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yes, of course, anyone can be in fight or flight. So this work is relevant to all human beings, not just ADHD years. But having worked with, you know, intimately over a thousand people with this approach, having talked to thousands and thousands of ADHDers, I have never met someone who is not in fight or flight. So why are ADHD'S ears. So disproportionately in fight or flight. I don't have the concrete answer for that, but my assumption is we're different. We are neurodivergent people living in a neurotypical world. Even if you don't feel like you have trauma in your past, which I did not identify with that. So being a fight or flight didn't connect with me right away. Cause I'm like, well, I haven't had, you know, capital T trauma or even lowercase teacher. I really didn't identify with it at all. But when you go through life with which just like this little poke poke don't quite fit in. Oh, you're a little bit different. You did that differently. Oh, you forgot that thing. You got in trouble for being late. That eventually puts your system into protection mode. Yeah. And then we get stuck there. So the reason I work with adults is because we do absolutely have the capacity to take that defense down and live in a way where we can feel safe. We are adults now. We are the boss. We have more autonomy. As a kid, I get it. Right. You're at the mercy of the adults around you. You don't have control, you don't have autonomy. So it's very hard. But once you're in adulthood, I think people think, well, I'm still living in a neurotypical world, so I have to be in fight or flight. We do not. Being in fight or flight is only ever beneficial when you're in imminent life threatening danger, getting chased by a bear, actually need to fight, flight, freeze or fawn to survive, then we want that triggered. Right. But if, if our stress is a long to do list, lots of chores to do today, an uncomfortable conversation to have with our boss. We don't want our system in fight or flight because that's actually taking blood flow from the brain, putting it in our limbs, ready to run and fight and be reactive as opposed to being thoughtful, mindful and intentional, which obviously is so important in modern day living.
- [16:51]
Kristin Carter
I absolutely love what you said about when you're a kid, you really are so powerless and at the mercy of the systems that you're brought up in. So a lot of us were raised in dysfunctional family systems. A lot of us were in school systems where our brains were not understood. A lot of us were in religious systems where our either hyperactive or underactive brains were just not appreciated at all. And so we were always at the mercy of the adults around us, saying, you're too much, you're too loud, you're not enough. You're not doing it right. And, and constantly in trouble. Constantly, constantly, constantly in trouble. And that transition into adulthood is so interesting because nobody actually teaches us, hey, you're a grown ass adult now. You're grown up. There's. You're not, like, you're not at the mercy of another person anymore. I think that transition is so tricky to make because a lot of us
- [17:56]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
need to be explicitly taught.
- [17:58]
Kristin Carter
And this is. I love the overlap with the book that I'm writing on relationships and adhd. Like, living as an adult in your relationships, not a child, not approaching your relationships, like, oh, I'm sorry. And I know I do everything wrong and I know I'm always the one that's the problem. It's like, no, you're a grown up now. And I think that I'm just curious, like, how can we help people get there sooner? And I know that's the work that you're doing, but, like, what do you think is like kind of the missing piece or pieces to helping people realize sooner? Like, how can we help people as they transition into adult? Like, okay, you're out of college now and you get to go into your corporate work system. And yes, you're in some ways at the mercy of the system, but in other ways, like, you're a grownup. You don't have to always be the one taking the blame or the problem or in trouble or like feeling like you're in fight or flight. How can we help people create that safety?
- [19:00]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yeah, I love that. And that is part of the work I do with people is we talk about, hey, guys, you're the, you're an adult now. Did you realize that? And everyone laughs because it's like, oh, I didn't like consciously even think about that. So we want to observe. Like, do I always feel like I'm a kid about to get in trouble? Right. Looking over our shoulder at nothing. It's like, this is the definition of fight or flight is my system is reacting to something that's not real. Yeah, right? Yeah. If you are getting chased by a bear, react to that. But if you're not, we're looking over our shoulder waiting to get in trouble. But we're the, we're the adult in the room.
- [19:34]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yes. Didn't get the memo.
- [19:38]
Kristin Carter
It's like we can know that and rehearse it logically. Yeah, like, you're fine, you're fine. Like, you know, it's just, it's just a conversation. I actually had someone text me me that I hadn't talked to in a year and a half and they texted with some stuff. And immediately my body was like, just exactly what you described. My heart racing, my palms sweating and ruminating about it. I couldn't stop thinking about it for 24 hours. I was just like, I woke up in the middle of the night to use the restroom, went back to bed, and it's all I could think about. And it was that again, where it's like, Kristen, you're safe. You are in the coziest bed in the safest room next to the man of your dreams who's got to like, not let anything like, you're. You're okay. And yet my body doesn't get the memo.
- [20:26]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yes. And that's why we do this work, right? Is to get that system into a place where you know the type of regulation work I do. Because I know people have heard about regulation for adhd, right? We see it in a lot of places. But I would say the. Not explicitly said thing, but I think the implied work of most regulation is like, whack a mole. Like, oh, you're gonna get dysregulated. Here's tools to like, whack it back down. Whereas the type of regulation I do is like, before we do anything else, let's get a strong foundation. So let's work on this, like, consistently for a while to get your baseline. From when I wake up, I'm in fight or flight, to when I wake up, I'm regulated and I will get dysregulated by life because we're human. But I'm actually retraining my system to have a baseline of like, oh, I'm okay. And so to do that, like you said, you can't just go, I'm safe. Okay, done. Right? I wish it were that easy. So there's a physical retraining of the body. Like, how am I acting? Because we act like we're getting chased by a bear all day. And so we need to act differently. Our thoughts and beliefs, so huge. Because our belief systems have been formed from a nervous system that believes it's about to die all the time. So our thinking is very fear based and urgency based. And our behavior, how we do things, we have to retrain all three layers to live in a way where we're safe. And so it's those retrainings that then have the body go, oh, okay. Each layer, right? The body, the brain and the behavior all kind of settle in together and go, oh, we are safe. And then of course, you get dysregulated but you have your tools. You know, okay, I see what's happening. You know, my system feels unsafe, but I know I'm okay. And you kind of get back into your groove. Yes, but exactly right. We can't just know we're safe. That doesn't.
- [22:27]
Kristin Carter
I wish it was enough, because I can. And I know part of, like, what people say to do is like, look around your room, like, define for yourself how safe you are. For me, that's never done the trick. It's had to be much, much more than that because can look around and say, like, okay, I'm in my kitchen and it's a sunny day and my kids are upstairs and my husband's on the couch and everything is calm and I am fine, but I'm not fine.
- [22:58]
Jennifer (Guest)
Right.
- [22:58]
Kristin Carter
So it's like so much more than that. Can you give us some practical steps of ways that you walk people through this process?
- [23:08]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yeah. So the first layer is the physical piece. And this is what, you know, most people think of when they think of nervous system regulation. However, there is a differentiation that I think is really important. So a lot of nervous system regulation work, the somatic work, body work is going to be task based, in my opinion. Yoga, meditation, tapping, like, do a thing, check it off your to do list, and carry on with your day breath work. So that.
- [23:33]
Kristin Carter
Yeah.
- [23:33]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yep. To me, that's whack a mole that's like, oh, I pit smacked my dysregulation down for a minute, but then I go about my day in a dysregulated way. So we want to do in the moment nervous system regulation, which I love this work because I designed this process this way for ADHD years. There's no homework, there's no tasks to check off the list. But there is awareness, which I know can be hard too, but it takes a lot less time. It's not taking time out of your day. So one, we need to be aware of what it feels like to be dysregulated. So when I work with people, I get that this is a little bit radical, but especially when you're starting out, I like my clients to assume every single symptom they have is because they're dysregulated. Put the ADHD aside for a minute. We want to see the symptoms as, oh, if this is a part of my dysregulated state, I want to be aware of it because that belief is a bit of a shift to do this work because we've normalized so much of our, like I said, at the beginning, all the symptoms of ADHD or of dysregulation, we call it adhd. So there's nothing to do with it. Right. The brain is what it is. Nothing I can do. So if we assume, okay, this is all because I'm in fight or flight. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying, sure. Look at it that way when you're working on it. Okay, so when I'm rushing, that's not just who I am. That's not just adhd. I'm dysregulated. Okay? So if you're rushing, you know, to a meeting at work with your shoulders around your ears, you're all tense, worrying about that meeting later or that, like, work you have to do later, after this meeting. Yeah. Oh, okay. That's the awareness. So it's starting to get the vocabulary. I'm just regulated. I'm dysregulated. You want to start seeing it in your day, as you live your day. Then it's awareness and interruption. Every tool I teach has two steps. So awareness. I'm dysregulated. And we want to interrupt it in the moment. So that would. Look, keep it as basic as possible. A deep breath, drop your shoulders, slow down. So if you're rushing to a meeting like this. Okay. Gotta go. Got it. Okay. And walk.
- [25:47]
Kristin Carter
Yes.
- [25:48]
Jennifer (Guest)
That is gonna be uncomfortable. Right? But that's the point, is we gotta do the uncomfortable thing to retrain the body. Hey, look, we slowed down, we relaxed, and you didn't get eaten by a bear. We need to start creating evidence that I can live in a different way. I can live as if I'm safe. It's a little bit of fake it till you make it because you are safe, but you don't feel safe. Yep. I can act like there's no, there's. I'm not running from anything. I am safe, and I need to act that way throughout the day. So. But as you can see, you don't have to take any time away from your busy life. You don't have to add anything more to your to do list. But of course, there is the memory piece of, like, how do I remember to do this? So that's gonna be different for everybody, but some sort of visual reminder of, like, regulated, even, like, oh, yeah, that's what I'm working on. And of course, your brain's gonna blur it out in a couple days. You might have to move it around, put a different colored thing up. But if you. Once you get into it, I have found with clients and with myself. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. Like, once you start feeling it and noticing it, you can't ignore it because it's back up to at the surface and then you can work on it. So for everybody, if there's like one takeaway from this piece would be rushing.
- [27:05]
Kristin Carter
Yes. You talk about that in your book so much. You say it over and over. There's no rush. There's no rush. There's no rush. And I loved that component of what you, like, gave to us in your book because I do feel like that is such an obvious indicator of our dysregulation.
- [27:27]
Jennifer (Guest)
And, you know, it's so tricky because with adhd, I do think this is a little bit on the fringe. I do think we've convoluted fight or flight with ADHD and they've been mixed up in a bowl and we've called it adhd. I do think there's work to do still on a bit of research of like, well, what about an ADHD brain that's not in fight or flight? What does that look like? How does it look different? How does. How is the experience different? I believe ADHD is still there. I still feel it in myself. I still see how my brain works differently, but it is like 20% of what I used to experience, symptom wise.
- [28:04]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
So.
- [28:05]
Jennifer (Guest)
So it's just like if we believe this level of heart is just how it is, nothing I can do about it. That's adhd. That can be very limiting.
- [28:15]
Kristin Carter
Whereas if that's interesting, I agree. I agree to some extent that, you know, the language that we use around ADHD I think is meant to empower.
- [28:29]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [28:30]
Kristin Carter
And it can be empowering, but also it can just be this. It's kind of how I feel about
- [28:37]
Jennifer (Guest)
this is a whole.
- [28:38]
Kristin Carter
Do I want to make this left turn? Hang on. Pause. I think I do.
- [28:42]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [30:02]
Kristin Carter
Especially when life gets busy.
- [30:03]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [30:56]
Kristin Carter
It's kind of how I feel about rejection sensitivity or what people call rsd. Where it's like that can feel really empowering. And then also sometimes we can say, well it's just my rsd, so sorry, there's nothing I can do about it. Where it's like maybe. But also, are there not rejection wounds that could be soothed and healed? Is there not help that we can extend beyond? Just like, wow, you just have rsd, so sorry. Every single interaction you're gonna feel like you're being rejected.
- [31:32]
Jennifer (Guest)
And is that not just a nervous system in Fight or Flight? Yes it is that is your nervous system going, I'm not Safe. They don't love me. It's tribal. We, again, we are primal beings. You want to be liked by everybody. You don't want to get kicked out of the groups, and you're alone in the forest and you're going to shrivel up and die. But that's not the reality. So it's a retraining of the system. And this is why I say, when I start with, people assume everything is dysregulation. Again, it's so important to know I'm not discounting the ADHD experience. I was in it for 30 years. I'm still in it. But, my God, is it lighter when we take the layer of dysregulation off the top? Because, again, dysregulation and regulation talked a lot about with adhd. But I think what people are assuming is it's an innate, inevitable part. So that's just how it is, because I will share this work and people will go, yeah, but that's just how we are. And I totally get what you're saying about the terminology and the language. I agree. I think it's so important. When I was first diagnosed, I'm like, oh, thank God. Right? I understand myself. I make so much more sense. Oh. And then literally, like a month later, okay, now what? Like, this is just my life. This is how I have to live. I have to feel like I'm drowning and I'm just keeping my head above water, and that's all I get. And so how I came across this whole approach and how I came to this place I am now was refusing to accept that. Maybe that sounds a little ridiculous, but, like, I'm not living this way. I am not living. Just trying to get everything over with, to go to bed, trying to get my life over with, hating every minute of it. Like, being so frustrated with my kids, not enjoying parenting at all, overwhelmed by mere existence, Like, I'm unwilling to do it, so what am I going to do about it? And the second I had the mindset shift of, like, oh, adhd, this is just the hand you're dealt. So slap a band aid on it and try not to drown. When I went, nope, not for me. What am I gonna do? Then I found my path and I went, whoa. I don't like this rushing piece of me that's so impatient and always panicking. And that's not that. Why does that have to be permanent? And then you start working on it, and you go, oh, my God, my executive functioning has improved. My paralysis again. I get that this is A bit fringe. And this won't be like everyone's cup of tea, but I have not experienced ADHD paralysis in two years.
- [33:58]
Kristin Carter
Wow.
- [33:59]
Jennifer (Guest)
I was living in it for 20. Like, that was my life.
- [34:03]
Kristin Carter
What did it look like for you when you were living in it?
- [34:07]
Jennifer (Guest)
I was self employed for seven years and I was not good at it. I was on the couch all day until like a little bit before my husband got home, I'd hurry up and do a couple things.
- [34:18]
Kristin Carter
Been there.
- [34:19]
Jennifer (Guest)
I felt very, very. My favorite quote, and it's in the book, is, was asking my college roommate, do you ever not want to take your socks off at night because then you have to put them back on in the morning. Like, oh, life is just.
- [34:32]
Kristin Carter
And she was like.
- [34:34]
Jennifer (Guest)
She's like, girl, what are you talking about? I was like, oh, just me. Okay. Like, I would cut. I wouldn't do anything I didn't absolutely have to do. And. And the feeling really was keeping my head above water, just trying not to drown on a daily basis in a life that was good. So I was like, what the. Sure. There's no external reason for this. Why am I feeling this way? So when I've done so it's been three years where I've really, like, been like, okay, regulation's my way to a better life. And, like, I cannot, I wish I could just, like, have people, like, walk. A day in my shoes then and a day in my shoes now. I am so much more productive, yet not in a rush. My mind is clear. I don't spend hours on the couch unless I choose to. My conscious mind has control again, where I get to choose what I want to do instead of being in compulsive behavior 247 and feeling guilty about it. Like, it has really turned a. Flipped a switch. Where. Oh. And then I was like, maybe this is adhd, where I still, you know, memory, still struggle. My calendar is my baby because without it, I don't know who I am. Where am I supposed to be? What am I doing? So I get it. Still some stuff there. Attention to detail, no matter how hard I try. Yeah, some whoopsies. And I'm like, oh, shoot. But I would say the quote, unquote, superpowers that people get annoyed with have come out so much more that I'm regulated. So creative thinking. I mean, I came up with this whole approach of going like, let's explore, connect the dots, figure it out. Right? Wrote a book, published a book. That's a big undertaking, as you know, all in a very. This is my clinical term for regulation. Like, this is. The cadence of my life is like, okay, what am I gonna do now? What's the next task? And so it's such powerful work. But it starts with that physical piece of realizing, oh, my. I'm acting as if I'm getting chased by a bear. I'm tense, I'm frozen. I'm ruminating I'm on the defense and interrupting it. And that's the first step.
- [36:55]
Kristin Carter
Yeah.
- [36:55]
Jennifer (Guest)
And we got to do it and do it and do it and do it and do it and do it. And is that annoying? For us? Yes.
- [37:00]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [37:00]
Jennifer (Guest)
Are you in a rush to overhaul your whole life tomorrow? And if this is going to take some time, you don't want to bother. Yes. But that is your dysregulation speaking.
- [37:08]
Kristin Carter
And that.
- [37:09]
Jennifer (Guest)
That's the trickiest part is the biggest barrier for us for regulation is that we're dysregulated because it's. You got to get that buy in. You have to want to do it, and you have to realize it's worth it or you won't keep it up. Because the dysregulated nervous system, again, urgency. It functions in. In a rushed state. So if this regulation work is going to take some time, I don't have time for that.
- [37:36]
Kristin Carter
I mean, how many times have we heard that from clients? Like, I don't. I don't have time to feel my emotions. I don't have time to calm down. I have time because I just got to do it. And my question is always, how has that worked for you so far? How's that working now?
- [37:50]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yes, but that. They hate that question. Yeah, like, horribly. Okay, but there's no other choice. Right, but that's the dysregulation. Because when we are in fight or flight, it feels like we don't have enough time. It feels like we're behind and need to catch up. It feels urgent. Urgent, urgent. Everything's urgent, which is why we're rushing, which is why we hate slow walkers, which is why we interrupt people before they finish their sentence. I got places to go. I got danger here. That is absolutely making our symptoms so much worse. When we are in that state, blood flow is leaving the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain responsible for prioritization. Are we bad at it? Or do we just not have blood flow to that part of the brain? Planning, logical thinking, all the executive functioning happens here. And blood flow is literally gone when we're in fight or flight. So where does it go? Sorry, I'm to your Limbs.
- [38:44]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Interesting.
- [38:46]
Kristin Carter
So that's why my hands shake when, like, for example, I get that text the other day and my hands are shaking. Is that the blood flow, like, rushing to the limbs? Potentially.
- [38:58]
Jennifer (Guest)
I mean, I don't know that. I don't know for sure, but that makes sense, right? It's like, oh, my gosh, I have all this energy. Like, I need to fight, run. Right, Right. I'm on defense mode. I feel unsafe. I'm a primal animal that doesn't know this is like pixels on a screen. It thinks there's a danger present. So. So, yes, that's the first part is the physical piece we have really digressed. But back around, we come on a
- [39:21]
Kristin Carter
couple rabbit trails there and then.
- [39:24]
Jennifer (Guest)
And then the second layer is thoughts and beliefs. This is so important. And I never hear people talk about this when they talk about regulation work, because, as I mentioned, our belief system, which everyone has a schema belief system that has been formed and, like, is locked in. That's how I see the world. And that's what I believe. Even in the face of contradictory evidence, that's what I believe. Well, our system has felt like I'm in a forest getting chased by a bear my whole life. Your brain's gonna also match that. So the most common ADHD beliefs that are dysregulating, that I hear from people, and when I bring these up to clients, they, like, start laughing. So they're like, oh, this is like the whole narrative in my mind. I'm behind. I need to catch up. That's number one. If you believe you're behind and need to catch up, what sane person would slow down?
- [40:13]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yep.
- [40:15]
Jennifer (Guest)
Right. So if we sustain these beliefs and we don't challenge them, we don't question them, we don't try to retrain our brain. I mean, it's just going to be an internal tug of war, which if people just do medication. I'm sorry, meditation, yoga, tapping, Breath work. I've done breath work. I feel calm. Oh, my God, I'm behind. I need to catch up, like, instantly. Back in a chest.
- [40:37]
Kristin Carter
One foot in and then immediately a foot out.
- [40:41]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yeah. So it's just this tug of war where you don't get anywhere. So we need to get the brain in line with our efforts that we're taking for our body. So there's not enough time. I can't rest until the to do list is complete. All of those. All of those beliefs, like, if people think about it right now, how do those make you feel when you think that? Yeah, right. It, like Immediately makes me go, oh, that's so scary. I have so much to do. I'm overwhelmed. So for years, I was really functioning from this, like, core narrative of I'm behind, I need to catch up. But if I really look at the logical side of it, it's like, okay, how. How do I feel and what do I do when I believe that thought? Well, when I believe I'm behind and need to catch up, I'm see everything that I think I should do, I see it all at once, like a brick wall in front of me. How the hell am I gonna do that? I can't. Okay, I'm gonna go watch tv. Yep. And so then I do nothing all day. I'm in paralysis on the couch nowadays. Scrolling. But this was before. That was big. And then I've proven myself. Right. See, I am behind. I need to catch up. And it's a vicious cycle. Whereas when I start challenging that and. And this is just a little. It's obviously more to it than this when we get into the deeper work. But a great little tool is what I call GPS thinking. So we want to first awareness of, ah, I'm in my dysregulated beliefs. Oh, I'm behind. I need to catch up. Like, what I'm thinking is putting me into a dysregulated state. Oh, I see that. And then we want to challenge it and interrupt it with GPS thinking. So when you set your GPS and you go five miles the wrong direction every single second, it's accepting where you are and rerouting.
- [42:22]
Kristin Carter
Yeah.
- [42:23]
Jennifer (Guest)
It doesn't go. You're so stupid. Why did you do that?
- [42:25]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
You're wasting time.
- [42:26]
Jennifer (Guest)
You should have gone here earlier. You're. So now you're behind because you went five miles the wrong way? No, it's like acceptance every step of the way and just. Okay, well, what's the. We're here, let's accept that now what? So if you're, you know, I'm behind, I need to catch up. I'm behind. I need to catch up. Oh, I am where I am.
- [42:46]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yes.
- [42:47]
Jennifer (Guest)
Now what? Right. It grounds you. You're here, you're present, you're aligned with reality, which I find regulation work is really about aligning with reality because it's like, oh, the reality is here I am. Can I be present in that and, like, go from there? And then the now what might be, you know, instead of, I'm behind, I need to catch up, I'm seeing all the 50 things I think I should do. Okay, here I am. On the couch maybe. Now what? Okay, well I could go, you know, unload that dishwasher. It just like brings calms everything down, helps you get present and realize, hey, I can only do one thing at a time. So what's the one next thing I'm going to do? And this is how we retrain our system back into a feel. Because instead of going crash, right, that crash, we go, oh, I'm just mosying along in life. It's the only thing I can do. There's no other choice. Yeah, that's the thing. We think there's like this magical solution where I can hammer things out and get caught up and get ahead and then I'll be okay. It's an illusion. Y. You can only do one thing at a time. And all life is is doing things until you die. So why are we trying to rush and get it over with? Like, that's just what life is. So when you start making this thinking interruption, it's like it retrains the brain of like, hey, it's safe to just be here with what you've got. Do the next thing. And the next thing might be like, I'm watching my favorite show and I'm just going to enjoy it. That's fine, right? Like you're again, you're a grown up, you get to do whatever you want. But when it's a conscious choice, it feels much better than when it's compulsive and you're laying there watching TV going, I really should be doing the dishes.
- [44:30]
Kristin Carter
I should, I should, I should, I should, I should, I should, I should. Yeah.
- [44:34]
Jennifer (Guest)
So should is one of the biggest words of dysregulated thinking. Right? Because the reality is this. But you're saying it shouldn't be, but it should be that. Okay, but it's not so good. Are we going to come back to what is.
- [44:46]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
Yeah.
- [44:47]
Jennifer (Guest)
And work from there? And that's what's so cool. And this is. And just to give someone a vision of like, okay, you start retraining your system to do this. You're slowing down, you're not in a rush. So much blood flows returning to the brain. So you can be clear, you can be more mindful, you're going to use your time a little bit more wisely. You're going to go less on, less side quests in a, in a nice way, not in a like boring way. Sure. But it's like, oh, instead of cleaning that room that nobody sees, I'm actually doing my important work. Like, wow, this feels good. To focus on what matters. Your brain is starting to go, okay, like, I have 50 emails that seems overwhelming, but, you know, here I am. What next? Answer one of them. So we're retraining our system to just do. To do. And you will get dysregulated. But when you have those skills and that awareness in your system, like, when I get dysregulated, I have the reminders built in of like, okay, yeah, and what am I going to do about it? I can only do one thing at a time. Here I am. Now what? And so it's. It's not like, wow, you're going to fall in line. Everything's going to be perfect. You're going to be present all the time. Of course not. But you'll be present much more. That'll be more your baseline. And when you get dysregulated, you know what to do to bring yourself back. And it's not. Not perfect. It won't happen in a second every time. But it's that or continue to be dysregulated, running around like a chicken with your head cut off. These are the options. There's no middle ground. You're not going to find a hack, a tip, a trick, or a tool.
- [46:13]
Kristin Carter
Give us the steps to being regulated a hundred percent of the time.
- [46:19]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yeah, that I can use today.
- [46:21]
Kristin Carter
Exactly.
- [46:23]
Jennifer (Guest)
And so that's what's really tricky is we've also been conditioned to want tips, tricks, hacks. I asked my audience, I'm like, how much of the ADHD content do you consume that has the word tip, trick or hack in it? And they were like, 90%. Like, that's screwing us over because tip, trigger, hack.
- [46:38]
Kristin Carter
That bugs me so much.
- [46:39]
Jennifer (Guest)
It's not gonna do much for you. Like, that is survival.
- [46:44]
Kristin Carter
Creating the idea that there is just something out there, and if I just find that thing, then I'll be okay. So it's like, I'm. I'm not okay, but everybody else is. They all have the secret. I don't have the secret, and I just need to go find the secret. And, like, I just haven't quite found it yet. So, like, just give me just. I just need to go find that secret. It's like, no.
- [47:05]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yes.
- [47:05]
Kristin Carter
Life does not work that. That sells, though. And that's what's so annoying. Yeah, that's what's so annoying.
- [47:12]
Jennifer (Guest)
It's so. It's so tough. It's so tough because I really. I work very hard to not add to that narrative.
- [47:18]
Kristin Carter
Same.
- [47:19]
Jennifer (Guest)
So I tr. So my content is very like, Growth oriented, like regulation oriented. And hey, like did like this. Amazing things can happen and our symptoms can be reduced and this, this I get so little traction. What gets traction is, isn't it so hard? Yeah. Aren't we all in this together and it's so impossible and we're all struggling. That is like blows up. And so it kind of shows that the ADHD brain one when it's in fight or flight is in survival mode. So the definition of survival mode is let's just get through the day. I just need to soothe my discomfort in this moment. I don't care about tomorrow. Short time horizon. Is that ADHD or is that fight or flight? Like every single symptom we look at we can go, do we really know how much you know of what it's all about? So tip tricks, hacks, soothe the survival mode self.
- [48:13]
Kristin Carter
Yes.
- [48:14]
Jennifer (Guest)
Yes. I just need something to keep me afloat today. Yes, I just need to something quick. Quick acting fast.
- [48:19]
Kristin Carter
This is going to help me. This planner is going to help me. This coach is going to help this, this system is going to help me and I'm gonna follow it to a T and I'm gonna go balls to the wall and just like get it all done and I'm gonna do it in 24 hours and it's like, oh my gosh, it does not work. And then we use that as evidence against ourselves that we don't deserve to support, that we waste our money that we are not worthy of investing our time and our resources in. Because I've done it before and it doesn't work for me. Yeah.
- [48:50]
Jennifer (Guest)
And that's why this, you know, I'm so passionate about this work one because just because my life has changed so greatly. So I want that for every single lady each year because we deserve a good life. And I think that's, that's what really kick started my whole journey was being unwilling to live this way. And so if people can start doing that, going like I'm not having it, I think that's so important. You have to start with a like f this attitude. I am not willing to live a life where I'm just keeping my head above water. I deserve more than that. I deserve to enjoy, I deserve to enjoy my days F this now what? Now you're going to look for some real true healing solutions. If you are in the thought process of this is just how it is it Life rate each year's is undeniably and irrevocably really hard. And that's just how it Is you. Like, that's psychology. You will not, not look for solutions. You will not look to heal. You will just look to survive. So that's like first and foremost is starting to kind of blow your mind up a little bit of like, wait, maybe what I'm experiencing is not inevitable. Maybe a lot of what I'm experiencing is healable and changeable and life can be so much better and I can have a rich, enjoyable, fruitful and productive life. It's not one or the other. A lot of people, when I talk about regulation, they're like, well, I just want to get organized and get all my stuff done first. Girl, how do you think you're going to get all your stuff done when you're regulated? Yeah, but we think regulation is, back off from your life, go have a rest, take a leave of absence, go have a nap. That's not what it is. It is. Let me retrain my brain, body and behavior while living my life to realize that we're safe and function as if we're safe and blood flow goes back to the brain and I have much more capacity. So you do not have to remove yourself from your life to do this work. You don't have to take a leave of absence. I actually would recommend against it. Obviously some people are like, I am so at my wits end, I have to take a break. That's fine, but you're not going to be able to do regulation work on a break. Right? I actually just had someone comment being like, I was wondering if I should do this work like in the summer because I'm a teacher and I'm like, well, what are you going to work on in the summer? You're not in your life. You have to work on regulation. Work in your life. So that teacher, we want her to go into the classroom and use these tools, retrain your system in the classroom. Oh, even in this space, I am safe. Even in this space, I don't need to be running around like a chicken, my head cut off. I can, you know, work is a safe environment because I am safe, because
- [51:33]
Kristin Carter
I'm safe wherever I go, right? And I'm obsessed because this is something that literally my coach was coaching me on yesterday was safety in dysregulation. So, like, we often think we have to be completely regulated in order to feel safe. Like, okay, now I feel safe. And it's like, how can we help ourselves to be dysregulated and feel safe at the same time? Like, notice.
- [52:00]
Jennifer (Guest)
And what's so cool is this work is layered so it's not, you know, to be regulated or to work on. Regulation isn't like, oh, I have no body sensations and I have no thoughts. No.
- [52:12]
Kristin Carter
The volume often gets turned up on all of that.
- [52:15]
Jennifer (Guest)
Right? Yes, yes, yes. So. Well, especially at first. Like, if you're challenging your system and you're slowing down when you're used to running this, it's gonna be uncomfortable. But we just. We keep doing it because we are, you know, our conscious mind is leading our subconscious and our nervous system going, no, look, I promise it's safe. Let's keep at it. But what I was going to say was something. And now I have forgotten.
- [52:36]
Kristin Carter
I'm sorry.
- [52:38]
Jennifer (Guest)
No, that's okay. What were you saying? Oh, yes, Sometimes the regulation work is, you know, oh, I shouldn't be dysregulated. I shouldn't be. Okay, well, now we're layering dysregulation on top of dysregulation. So sometimes it's, oh, the reality is I'm feeling anxious. Yeah. Now what? Like, okay, it's a sensation. It's not gonna kill me. Like, it's. It's safe to be anxious. Like, even that's part of it. Of course, ideally, I'd like us to not be anxious. That would be wonderful. And we'll work towards that. But many times it's like the thing we're working on is the top layer. I feel shame about being dysregulated. Well, now we've got double duty.
- [53:14]
Kristin Carter
Yeah.
- [53:15]
Jennifer (Guest)
It's like, let's work on the shame. Shame and guilt, everyone are signs of dysregulation. Like those. Those are negative motivators that the dysregulated nervous system is trying to get you motivated so you don't get eaten by the bear. Urgency, guilt, shame, and fear are the motivators of a dysregulated nervous system. And we say, oh, that's just what I'm motivated by because I have adhd. No, that's just dysregulation. And it fuels dysregulation as well. So when the more regulated we get, we're also going to be able to tap into more positive motivators. Like. Like, it feels good to accomplish that. I get healthy and sustained dopamine from achievement. I, you know, I'm gonna do the laundry because I want clean clothes. Right. That's much more of a pull motivator. Whereas. Oh, my God, I'm so horrible. I'm the worst mom ever. I haven't done laundry. Ah, I better do laundry. Like, yeah, that's going to burn us out. Yeah. And, yeah, the biggest. I think the biggest takeaway, though, the first step for everybody is start challenging. The thinking about is burnout inevitable, is crash inevitable, Is this amount of struggle inevitable? I say not. And once you start wrapping your head around that, it's like, ooh, a door starts to open and now you have more to work on and. And it's much more. I find it so fun, like, to observe my brain and go, brain, what are you. That is so interesting. Look what my brain's doing. So if you can have that curious mindset, it really helps a lot.
- [54:52]
Kristin Carter
I just absolutely love it. I appreciate you so much. Tell us about your book, where we can find it, how we can purchase it, and also about your programs. How can we get more of Jenna in our lives?
- [55:04]
Jennifer (Guest)
Absolutely. So the book is called the Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation, available wherever books are sold. Kristen also has a little endorsement in there which is very exciting, so appreciate it. And you can find me@jennifer.com I also do this work with people in my program, ADHD groups. And in September, we'll be starting to work with other therapists and coaches to teach them this approach to add to their repertoire. Because if your clients are not regulated, if they are in fight or flight, all the other amazing things you're teaching them is only going to go so far. So. So that's something I'm very excited about, starting in September.
- [55:44]
Kristin Carter
That's awesome. We will link all of these things in the show notes, so if you're listening and you're interested, you can go check out the show notes. Jenna, it has been a pleasure. Thank you for your time and just the. Just the well of wisdom that you have to offer to the ADHD community. I just appreciate you so much.
- [56:05]
Jennifer (Guest)
I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me.
- [56:08]
Kristin Carter
A few years ago, I went looking for help. I wanted to find someone to teach me how to feel better about myself and to help me improve my organization, productivity, time management, emotional regulation, you know, all the things that we adults with ADHD struggle with. I couldn't find anything, so I researched and I studied and I hired coaches
- [56:28]
Jennifer (Guest)
and I figured it out.
- [56:30]
Kristin Carter
Then I created Focused for your. Focused is my monthly coaching membership where I teach educated professional adults how to accept their ADHD brain and hijack their ability to get stuff done. Hundreds of people from all over the world are already benefiting from this program, and I'm confident that you will, too. Go to ihaveadhd.com focused for all the details.
- [56:58]
Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
This episode is sponsored by AG1.
- [57:00]
Kristin Carter
It's the end of the school year
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Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice
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Jennifer (Guest)
For me.
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