A VISIT TO MASTER GLASSMAKER MURIEL BALENSI AT HER VENETIAN WORKSHOP ON MURANO

Summary

A Visit to Master Glassmaker Muriel Balency at Her Venetian Workshop on Murano

In the latest episode of "If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton," host Carol Woolton takes listeners on an immersive journey to the historic island of Murano in Venice. This episode features an in-depth conversation with Muriel Balency, a renowned master glassmaker whose craftsmanship embodies the rich traditions and innovative spirit of Murano glassmaking.

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Introduction to Muriel Balency and Her Craft

Carol Woolton begins by setting the scene of a sweltering summer day in Murano, where Muriel operates her workshop amidst the age-old techniques that have made Murano glass famous worldwide. As Carol describes the intense heat of the glassmaking process, Muriel shares insights into her dedication and skill, highlighting the intricate balance between respecting traditional methods and embracing modern advancements.

Muriel Balency [00:51]: "Now we use gas and oxygen. And you haven't got the pig fat."

This quote underscores the evolution of glassmaking techniques over the centuries, moving from traditional methods that relied on organic materials to more controlled and precise fuel sources.

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The Art and Evolution of Glassmaking

Murano glassmaking is celebrated globally for its delicacy, lightness, and translucency. Muriel explains the foundational techniques that set Murano glass apart from other glass traditions.

Muriel Balency [05:28]: "In Murano I think they are the best glassmakers in all over the world. Because they have got this very particular technique, is a la facon de venise, is international manner. To say this one, it's without stamp, only with free hand. La mano volante."

Muriel emphasizes the handmade nature of Murano glass, contrasting it with regions where glass production often relies on machines and molds. This freehand technique, known as "la mano volante," allows artisans to create uniquely fluid and organic shapes, maintaining the artistry and individuality of each piece.

Muriel Balency [11:14]: "Now you use gas and oxygen. And you haven't got the pig fat."

She further elaborates on the challenges and rewards of working with such high temperatures, highlighting the symbiotic relationship between the glassmaker and the fire.

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Specialization in Bead Making

Muriel has chosen to specialize in bead making, a form that allows for immense creativity despite its seemingly simple appearance. She delves into the meticulous process required to craft each bead, which can take up to two hours to complete.

Muriel Balency [09:24]: "So this is particularly bead making."

Muriel's expertise lies in creating intricate designs within each bead, often embedding colorful patterns and even miniature sculptures. She describes the layered approach she employs to achieve the vibrant, multifaceted appearance characteristic of Murano beads.

Muriel Balency [36:25]: "I try the most. But after one moment you can go inside on the full on the middle of the beads. So I think nine is max. Because you have got one transparent... I make a design... and I say stop."

This method requires not only artistic vision but also a deep understanding of how glass reacts to heat and manipulation, merging art with a form of creative science.

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Gender Dynamics in Glassmaking

Historically, glassmaking in Murano has been a female-dominated craft. Muriel touches on this tradition, explaining how economic and social factors led women to become the primary artisans in this field.

Muriel Balency [23:20]: "Usually when the woman finish kitchen market laundry and babies to put cheese inside the pasta, they attack the tube of gas inside the kitchen and they begin to work and to make some beads."

This tradition continues today, with women like Muriel carrying forward the legacy while also pushing the boundaries of the craft through innovation and collaboration.

Muriel Balency [32:46]: "I think it's perhaps 200 person between Murano and Vnwich, perhaps 300. But to create new models, new beads, I think 10%."

Despite the male-dominated nature of many artisanal fields, Murano glassmaking remains a space where women artisans are highly respected and essential to the community's vibrancy and continuity.

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The Historical Significance of Murano

Murano's prominence in glassmaking dates back to the Republic of Venice, where strict laws confined glassmakers to the island to protect their closely guarded techniques.

Muriel Balency [24:30]: "Because La Serenissima it was very powerful and beautiful."

These restrictions not only preserved the secrets of glassmaking but also elevated it to a noble profession, granting artisans significant social standing and opportunities for upward mobility.

Muriel Balency [27:44]: "And your family. I've got some money, they are not angry. So it's a respect. So I think in my point of view, it's normal."

This historical context enriches Murano glassmakers' understanding of their craft, fostering a deep sense of pride and responsibility in maintaining its legacy.

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Special Techniques: Millefiori and Beyond

One of the most celebrated techniques in Murano glassmaking is Millefiori, which translates to "a thousand flowers." Muriel demonstrates her mastery of this intricate method, showcasing how colorful glass strands are fused and sliced to create elaborate floral patterns within beads.

Muriel Balency [31:00]: "So how do you produce that?"

Muriel carefully layers colors and embeds them within transparent glass, creating stunning visual effects that are both timeless and contemporary.

Muriel Balency [29:42]: "And after you take, you take this one and you make your base with pastel or transparent color, like you would like, after you can certainly God leaf a transparent layer of glass, etc."

The precision and patience required for such work highlight Muriel's dedication and the high level of craftsmanship inherent in Murano glassmaking.

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Innovative Projects and Collaborations

Muriel is not only a master of traditional techniques but also an innovator who explores new forms and collaborations. One notable project discussed in the episode is her collaboration on a glass chessboard, which incorporates her signature beads into a functional art piece.

Muriel Balency [45:03]: "Yes. In each piece you have got one bead in the middle of the pieces."

This project exemplifies how Muriel blends functionality with artistry, creating pieces that are both beautiful and utilitarian. Her ongoing work includes the Hysteria necklaces, which represent a fusion of sculpture and wearable art, pushing the boundaries of what glass jewelry can be.

Muriel Balency [45:46]: "Now I work on this Hysteria necklaces. It's a little sculpture."

These endeavors reflect Muriel's commitment to evolving the craft, ensuring that Murano glass remains relevant and revered in the modern jewelry landscape.

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The Future of Murano Glassmaking

Looking ahead, Muriel expresses optimism about the continued vitality of Murano glassmaking. She emphasizes the importance of innovation and collaboration in keeping the tradition alive while adapting to contemporary tastes and technologies.

Muriel Balency [17:37]: "You have to learn something new."

Muriel is dedicated to mentoring the next generation of glassmakers, ensuring that the island's rich heritage continues to flourish amidst changing times.

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Conclusion: The Timeless Allure of Murano Glass

This episode of "If Jewels Could Talk" beautifully captures the essence of Murano glassmaking through the eyes of Muriel Balency. It highlights the intricate balance between tradition and innovation, the profound artistry involved in glassmaking, and the enduring legacy of Murano as a beacon of craftsmanship. Muriel's passion and expertise offer listeners a deeper appreciation for the delicate yet resilient nature of glass as a medium, reminding us why Murano remains synonymous with some of the world's most exquisite jewelry and art pieces.

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Notable Quotes:

• Muriel Balency [05:28]: "In Murano I think they are the best glassmakers in all over the world. Because they have got this very particular technique, is a la facon de venise, is international manner."

• Muriel Balency [36:25]: "I try the most. But after one moment you can go inside on the full on the middle of the beads. So I think nine is max."

• Muriel Balency [24:30]: "Because La Serenissima it was very powerful and beautiful."

• Muriel Balency [32:46]: "I think it's perhaps 200 person between Murano and Vnwich, perhaps 300. But to create new models, new beads, I think 10%."

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This comprehensive exploration not only educates but also inspires, offering a window into the mesmerizing world of Murano glass through the skilled hands of Muriel Balency.

Transcript

[Carole Houlton]

We're so done with New Year. New you this year it's More youe on Bumble. More of you shamelessly sending playlists, especially that one filled with show tunes. More of you finding Geminis because you know you always like them. More of you dating with intention because you know what you want and you know what we love that for you, someone else will too be More you this year and find them on Bumblebee. This episode is brought to you by Fooli Gemstones.

[Muriel Balency]

Some of my beads. I make two hours to make one.

[Carole Houlton]

With the fire in front of you.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes.

[Carole Houlton]

Smelling of bacon.

[Muriel Balency]

Cooked. No, no, no, no, no, no. Now we use gas and oxygen. And you haven't got.

[Carole Houlton]

You haven't got the pig fat.

[Muriel Balency]

No, no, no.

[Carole Houlton]

And you must get very hot.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, it's very hot.

[Carole Houlton]

So how do you protect yourself?

[Muriel Balency]

I don't protect me. Because if you protect you, you haven't got the feedback with the fire. And at the end, if you respect the element, the fire is your friend.

[Carole Houlton]

I'm Carole Houlton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realise they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewellery culture and investigate what's happening now. Today we have the second episode in our Venetian special, so join me on the island of Murano, where we're going to talk to a master glass maker, Muriel Balency. Now, if I sound a bit hot, please forgive me. It was 33 degrees outside. This was recorded in the summer at the Homophobia Festival at the very end of August. And then Muriel lit her ovens. All I can say was it was like being in a sauna. But she's fascinating, she's dedicated. It's her life in glass. So keep listening and I hope you enjoy it. Glass making is the ancient origin of a method using fire and glass to create jewelry, tableware and objects, and Murano in particular. The glass made here has a particular delicacy, lightness, translucency, which has brought it fame all around the world. Muriel, thank you very much for hosting us today.

[Muriel Balency]

Thank you to come to visit me in Murano. I'm very happy and excited and proud to see you today. Thank you so much.

[Carole Houlton]

And Muriel is. I will show you where she is, we will film it and put it on Instagram and YouTube. When you're listening to it, you can have a look, but she's off the beaten track. In Murano, it is old fashioned Venice. You imagine washing lines out as I came down in a boat. People are living in a traditional way here, Muriel, is that right?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, I agree with you. But Murano, it's a very, very old story. And they write the story with this fashion, with this. And I think for them it's a possibility to keep the memory with the life of this memory and is the story. And they like it like that.

[Carole Houlton]

So they don't want to be in the Toristo part of Venice or Murano. They want to live a traditional life, which I guess is increasingly hard here.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, exactly. It's a very touristical place and they pay, they rent, selling this style of jewelry or glass production. So I think it's good for them it's a job. And for touristical people it's good because it's not easy to have got their own style. They have got imagination. To create a new steel you have to make a lot of research. And research is no money. You don't win every time.

[Carole Houlton]

Trial and error. You have to keep producing. It might not work to perfect it.

[Muriel Balency]

And you try, you try, you try. And you haven't got a success in the first time. You have to test a lot.

[Carole Houlton]

But first of all, I want you to describe to us the art of glass making. Tell us originally how it evolved and then how you create glass now and whether that process has changed.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, In Murano I think they are the best glass maker in all over the world. World. Because they have got this very particular technique, is a la facon de venise, is international manner. To say this one, it's without stamp, only with free hand. La mano volante.

[Carole Houlton]

So it's all handmade?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, absolutely.

[Carole Houlton]

And in other parts of the world it's machine made, not necessary.

[Muriel Balency]

But they use a lot of stamps here they use.

[Carole Houlton]

What is stamps?

[Muriel Balency]

It's something like this one, for example. You have got a bottle, you have got a glass.

[Carole Houlton]

Oh, I see. A model. Or in jewelry we call it a mould.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes.

[Carole Houlton]

So other places they'll use a mould. They're not creating directly the. The whole piece by hand.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes. Here in Murano we make all the pieces in glass factory with a newspaper, inside the water and with the hand they make this one. And they create all the shapes that you can, that you would like. And we work a lot with the gravity force. Because glass is a very, very fluid material, very sensitive, and you have to move all the time. And it's an element. You work with the fire, so you have to work even with the air, if you would like a very fluid, a very beautiful shape, very free shape. And in the other part of the world, they work a lot with a lot of instruments. And when you hear the music of the glass, when they work, you hear very strange music. Here you have got an harmony, even with the instrument. It's beautiful. It's like a ballet. It's a very harmonious technique.

[Carole Houlton]

But at the very basic. I want you to describe to us, because for you it's something you do every day. For us it's something very unusual and we need to understand. So the heat, you need heat to melt the glass. And in lamp working, which is what you specialize in traditionally, was from the flame of a candle. Do you still use the flame of a candle?

[Muriel Balency]

No, at the beginning, it's not exactly this one, it was. Yes, you use a flame of the candle, but with oil of pig.

[Carole Houlton]

Oil of the pig.

[Muriel Balency]

And you burn it, you burn this oil and you have got, of course, an awful perfume. Sorry, but it's a tradition. And after you, with the candle, you give fire this one and you can fuse the glass. But at this moment they use a lot of pastel color, opaque color.

[Carole Houlton]

But you've got the glass on the end of a metal tube.

[Muriel Balency]

You have got the glass, a wound tube of now in copper, but before in steel, and you roll wand the glass fusing around this thystick and you can create every shape. But in this period they use a lot of pastel, because on the middle, on the. You have to put an argylle. And like that you can take off your beads to have got the hole.

[Carole Houlton]

So this is particularly bead making.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, that's why the old beads, they are opaque colors, even the African beads, etc. Because they have got only this technique. You have to wait 18 century to have got the invention of the transparent glass. And this one, after they loop it and they give a new energy, a new movement, a new force to Murano glass. But after the problem, they export it. And some of glass master go there to teach. And after they have got the concurrence of the crystals.

[Carole Houlton]

I see, but tell me, how do you shape it? When it's very hot and at the end of your copper tube, how do you actually shape it? You can't touch it, it's boiling. It's what, 1500 degrees Fahrenheit. How do you physically make the shape?

[Muriel Balency]

With the gravity.

[Carole Houlton]

So you turn the tube upside down to make it longer.

[Muriel Balency]

You move it up and down, up and down. And you have to work very quick because the particularity of you have to stay all the time inside the fire. With another type of glass, like burrosilicato or American glass, you can save a lot of time outside and you can keep it there and come back tomorrow and work again here. When you begin something, you have to finish it.

[Carole Houlton]

How long would that take?

[Muriel Balency]

It depends. Some of my beads, I make two hours to make one. Because it's with the fire in front of you. Yes.

[Carole Houlton]

Smelling of bacon, cooked cake.

[Muriel Balency]

No, no, no, no, no. Now we use gas and oxygen. And you haven't got.

[Carole Houlton]

You haven't got the pig fat.

[Muriel Balency]

No, no, no. You use gas, Gas and oxygen.

[Carole Houlton]

And you must get very hot.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, it's very hot.

[Carole Houlton]

So how do you protect yourself?

[Muriel Balency]

I don't protect me because if you protect you, you haven't got the feedback. And at the end, if you respect the element, the fire is your friend. But you have, of course, to be careful and to be very quiet and with a good mood to begin to work. But like that, you have got really the good feeling.

[Carole Houlton]

Do you have anything covering your face or your eyes?

[Muriel Balency]

In my eyes, yes. I have got some sunglasses even to protect with UV and the bad radiation. But in my hand, nothing. And in my body, nothing. At the beginning, it's a little bit complex.

[Carole Houlton]

Have you burnt yourself?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes.

[Carole Houlton]

She's showing me. You can't see this, but she's showing me burn marks all the way up from her wrist to her elbow.

[Muriel Balency]

Not too much.

[Carole Houlton]

Quite a few. That must hurt. Yes, but now you don't have accidents.

[Muriel Balency]

Now you have got all the time accidents, really, because sometimes you don't be careful, or sometimes you are very enthusiastic with what you make. And you don't think you touch something. You touch something that you just put and you have got one minute before inside the fire. All the time you have to be concentrated. It's le meilleur des aments. The unique things that you have got in your heart and in your mind.

[Carole Houlton]

Where do you actually do it? You don't do it in this place.

[Muriel Balency]

After the cube, you have got my torch and two ovens.

[Carole Houlton]

So you can actually do it in front of some of your clients. They can come and watch.

[Muriel Balency]

Absolutely. And usually everybody can come there and I make a demonstration and they choose their own color and one person, one bead.

[Carole Houlton]

Okay. So they can commission you as you're working?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, absolutely. And for me it's very interesting because usually a lot of people have got a good combination of colors and I haven't got this idea. So for me it's opening new universes.

[Carole Houlton]

So I want to know how you started, Muriel. How did you start in glass? How did you discover that this is what you wanted to do before?

[Muriel Balency]

I work and I live in Paris, and I'm very happy in this place because I love Paris and I love my work. But I have got this impression that it's not exactly what I would like to find in my life. And I have got this impression that one voice is in silence inside of me.

[Carole Houlton]

What was that job that you were doing?

[Muriel Balency]

I make a very normal job, very quiet, and I choose it and I love it, but I'm not completely happy. And I come on holidays here in Vinich and I see. See the glass for the first time. And I have got this impression that I try the torch and I have got this impression that is an artistical medium that I always would like to find in my life. And I decided to come there for six months and to find a little job, little people place, a little studio and a little home.

[Carole Houlton]

So this was in 2007?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes. No, the holidays in seven. And when I come with this six months is in eight.

[Carole Houlton]

Yes.

[Muriel Balency]

Okay. I come there and I find these three things so I can begin and try, and try to live here, because I don't speak the language, I haven't got some money, no friends, nobody. But I have got my dream and I am happy like that. And so I try. And after I come back after six months and I opened very quickly a little shop in my atelier like that, I can pay my rent and I can try to survive. And eight years ago I have to change another time, my life, and I with only this art studio. And now I receive the person with appointment and I can feel up new collaboration and new universities. I am quiet to work and it's better for me.

[Carole Houlton]

So how long did it take from the time you moved here that you could be a glass maker? And how long does it take to learn?

[Muriel Balency]

One life, okay, one life. Because you learn. I learn every day. I learn every day. And it's very interesting because glass is absolutely infinite. So every day it's a new day. And every day you can learn, you can try, you can test a new thing and you have got new ideas, even like a painter with all these colors that this one even is a particularity of Murano glass. That is a color. And it's every day it's magical because you can invent something. And to invent something, you can to learn something new.

[Carole Houlton]

But what do you have to do to become a master glass maker? Do you have to have a certain amount of years? You have to produce something? How do you become a master?

[Muriel Balency]

No, usually in Murano, they said you have got a school of glass, but usually they say that it is the other master, is the other maestro to decide. One day you walk along the canal and you meet some person. And this person said, ciao, maestro.

[Carole Houlton]

Okay, the local community anoint their own masters.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, I'm good. This one is the tradition. And usually they say like that, but it's true that in 2019, here in Murano, we have got the international conference of glass. And I participated in the closed ceremony with a very beautiful event, fashion showing glass. And I make a particular dress. And everybody thinks that this one is absolutely beautiful and it's the best one. And at this moment, Murano, because you have got all over the world, India, America, etc. Murano said it to me, okay, you make for the island a historical piece, we win the fashion show, and now you are really a Murano citizen.

[Carole Houlton]

And how does lamp working, how you are working, how does that differ from other forms of glass making?

[Muriel Balency]

Glass is one unique material, but it's seven, ten different jobs. Because, for example, glass factory, they are hot sculptures. They have got this very, very big mass infusion. And with this newspaper inside the water, they move it. It's very heavy. It's. It's a team work. And you have got a lot of noise. And this one is glass factory. It's fabulous. It absolutely creates some dependence, it's true. But this one is a job of sculpture. After you have got, for example, casting, it's another sculpture. So they make like with bronze. So they make one stamp with abeclass here.

[Carole Houlton]

So they make a sort of mold like a candle?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, they make a mold like the candle. And after they fuse the glass inside, we have got this one, for example.

[Carole Houlton]

This is a hand?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, it's casting glass.

[Carole Houlton]

And then how do you make it in one piece?

[Muriel Balency]

They've got this mould.

[Carole Houlton]

I see. So they make the mold of the hand.

[Muriel Balency]

And after they have got a positive, and after they make a negative. And when you have got the negative, you insert the glass inside and you have got a perfect shape. And this one is absolutely a very, very great maestron san, very complex. And this one, it's another job, but it's sculpture but it's not hot sculpture like a glass factory, but it's always glass after you have got all the job. When they polish it, they can make some fantastic shape, fantastic design with machine, with a very, very complex instrument. And it's very complex too to make this job. And this one is another one.

[Carole Houlton]

So how many ways of glass making are there?

[Muriel Balency]

I think seven, about seven or eight.

[Carole Houlton]

And people just work with what suits them?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes.

[Carole Houlton]

And whether how much hand work they want to do.

[Muriel Balency]

Usually only in glass factories work with team. In the other case, you work alone and you have got only one mastro for una piazza for the team. And in a glass factory, only one maestro. And the difference with lampworking is lamp working. It's a very solitary job and it's like meditation, it's very Zen and it's like a painter with only two fingers you create. It's a microcosm, very small details. And it's usually woman makes his job.

[Carole Houlton]

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[Muriel Balency]

Yes, absolutely. Because usually when Murano or Italy have got some problem with the epidemy, with the wars, etc. And so men can't work or of course, seven centuries ago, they have got a lot of bambini, a lot of children, and so it's necessary to have got more money. And so usually when the woman finish kitchen market laundry and babies to put cheese inside the pasta, they attack the tube of gas inside the kitchen and they begin to work and to make some beads. And of course, just for the cheese in the pasta, not for chicken, not for meat, just for a little bit of money for this very big family.

[Carole Houlton]

Let's just talk a little bit about the history of glass making and why it centred on Murano.

[Muriel Balency]

Because La Serenissima it was very powerful and beautiful.

[Carole Houlton]

So the Romans have been making glass from about the first century and I guess it was rediscovered in Venice.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, but at this time, Venetian are very, very subtle person and they identify immediately the power of glass.

[Carole Houlton]

Because I think immigrants from the east fleeing Constantinople brought with them extensive knowledge of glass arts and production. And so I think in Venice it became this sort of melting pot of people and ideas and methods of working, which kind of revived the idea of glass.

[Muriel Balency]

Because usually when La Serenissima, or Venetian people make war, and after, when they bring back with tresor, they bring back even with art, maestri in every so in Tapisrie, mosaic, glass, etc. And that's why you have got this melting pot and this fusion of artists.

[Carole Houlton]

And then the Republic decided to eject all the glass makers from the main island and it became an enforced law that they came to work on Murano.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, absolutely. To keep the secret.

[Carole Houlton]

To keep the secret of the glass making. So they didn't travel hard to get away from Murano.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes.

[Carole Houlton]

And also, was it because of the heat of the furnaces that it might create fire?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, exactly. So two reasons. But they can go in Vinich or in Murano, in the Laguna, but not in the other countries to teach etc. But in my point of view, it's absolutely just because at this moment we have got La Serenissima make nobile aristocrats, people with their own art. And for example, an art master can marry the daughter of the Doge, and.

[Carole Houlton]

Even with the glass art master, because it was a very noble profession.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, exactly. And so it's true that you can't move, but you begin noble and in this case you give your fidelity.

[Carole Houlton]

So they couldn't leave Venice without permission, but they were given all kinds of privileges and they were offered a lot of respect within their profession in the city.

[Muriel Balency]

Exactly.

[Carole Houlton]

And so you're basically saying it was a very fast track way to get very upwardly socially mobile. Because even if you were a humble person, Nabion Murano, if you were a glassmaker, as you say, your daughter could marry the Doge.

[Muriel Balency]

Exactly. And your family. I've got some money, they are not angry. So it's a respect. So I think in my point of view, it's normal.

[Carole Houlton]

I suppose one of the most famous techniques that we've all heard about is the Mille Fury, the Thousand Flowers. Muriel is showing me her milifury golden glass beads which are round her neck, which have got lots of quite elaborate flowers around it with gold. So how do you produce that?

[Muriel Balency]

No, no, no, this one, they are old, antique, antique necklace. And like you can see at this moment of the Story, they work only with gas. And you have got gold leaf in the superficy. And with the time, with all the women that they wear it, the gold go away. But it's a very interesting necklace, this one. It's a very particular technique at the moment when you have got the very, very big industry of Murano glass. We have got some bead maker women, they prepare all these little, little, little things, stick of glass. It was a job only I show you very, very slim stick of glass, like a spaghetti. And children on the morning go to this one. And it was a job to create all this one.

[Carole Houlton]

So these are like little canes, as you said, spaghetti colored spaghetti in glass. And they put those together and then cut them in an arrangement like a flower, and they somehow get that inside clear glass. Yes.

[Muriel Balency]

And after you take, you take this one and you make your base with pastel or transparent color, like you would like, after you can certainly God leaf a transparent layer of glass, etc. And after you take this stringer of glass, spaghetti color it, spaghetti of glass, and you put it there and you fuse, you twist and you cut, you.

[Carole Houlton]

Twist and you cut. And then they make particular decorative ways inside glass using the color.

[Muriel Balency]

See this one, it's a more contemporary technique. And after, yes, after you with something, you pull all these points, for example, you pull in the middle of four points of colors. And like that you have got a flower. And after you put on this flower, on this layer of glass, another layer of transparent glass, and you have got the flower inside the beads.

[Carole Houlton]

Because all those sort of colored beads that were bagged up in Venice, that was some millefiori beads that they loved, wasn't it? To take. And how did they do that? How did they make those beads then?

[Muriel Balency]

No, usually millefiori they make only with air torch, not with gas and oxygen. Because it's a very, very delicate technique. And if you would like, you can make, of course with gas and oxygen, but if you would like this beautiful design with these stringers, etc. It's better with air. And here in Murano and in Vinich, a lot of people work only with air torch. It's an antique technique. And you can make some beautiful beads, you can work even better. Laventurina, for example, it is this glass that you have got copper inside and you have got this impression that is paellette. It's a beautiful glass, but it comes a lot of light with only air torch. So even in this case you have got one material is the glass. But it Depends of the glass. You have got better torch show better to techniques, even the antique techniques. Sometimes it's better for some kind of glass. And it's in this case for Mille Fiori, it's better with her torch.

[Carole Houlton]

And so if women were doing the lamp working originally, because they weren't allowed to be in charge of the furnaces, were they now, how many women do you think they are as glassmakers on Murano?

[Muriel Balency]

It's very difficult to know because a lot of people work for industry or make some beads. And it's very difficult. Really. I think it's perhaps 200 person between Murano and Vnwich, perhaps 300. But to create new models, new beads, I think 10%. And you can recognize every hand.

[Carole Houlton]

Oh, really? That's so interesting. So you can walk down and you can know exactly who made it? Yes, they will have their own style.

[Muriel Balency]

Basically, who creates you can recognize every hand.

[Carole Houlton]

And why did you choose beads to specialize in? Do you feel you specialize in beads?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, for me, the beads, it's better for my imagination, even for my body, because the other form of glass is very heavy and I'm a little woman and so it's not possible. But I like to focus my mind and my heart in this little species, even because I believe in the microcosm. And I think if everybody can work every day to have got a better microcosm world begin a paradise. So it's even my philosophy.

[Carole Houlton]

I think the art of glass making has also been very closely related in Venice with mosaic work, because all the mosaics were little glass tesserae, like little tiles. Does that inspire you at all?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, a little bit. I love mosaic. And it's true that you have got San Marco Square with this absolute leaf, fabulous basilic shining inside the sun with this mosaic, perhaps all this gold and all this color. But usually my inspiration is more painting, because I love to dye painting in 2cm and like that you can understand how to have got the color and even the good movement to change color in one painting. And so I try to make the same thing with my bead, just a little bit of every color. And like that you have got a lot of reflection reflects. So then it is reflects too.

[Carole Houlton]

I can see the bead that you're wearing in the center of your necklace has a lot of colour. And these are like sort of little arabesques of colour. So how do you achieve that inside the glass?

[Muriel Balency]

With a lot of patience. You have to. Sometimes I use, I don't know, perhaps 20 colors, but you put 70 points of color in each layer to have got reflects.

[Carole Houlton]

And how many layers are there?

[Muriel Balency]

I try the most. But after one moment you can go inside on the full on the middle of the beads. So I think nine is max. Because you have got one transparent. After you have got gold filigrana transparent. After I make a design, after I put another layer of transparent, I make a design, I put another layer of transparent and I make another design. And sometimes I add even filigrana. So 12 and after each not possible to read all the levels and you have got confusion.

[Carole Houlton]

But how do you do that? You must have to work very quickly, because doesn't that color just melt? So you have to do it very, very quickly.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, and not because it's very long, because glass have got his own time. And it's a very long time because you have to wait a minute that the temperature is good. And after you have to make your design, the difficulty is to work on the superficie of the bead. To have got this perfect design, perfect definition, exactly like with a pencil. But the sole of the bead, the middle, when you have got the copper, the hole, this one have to be hot. But if it's too hot, you have got a bad color, you have got a large design, etc. So the secret of the glass is the fire. It's the temperature, it's not the perfect.

[Carole Houlton]

So you have to absolutely know how the glass is going to react to that temperature before you insert your dots of color.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, absolutely.

[Carole Houlton]

So it's a sort of science in a way. It's a kind of creative science.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.

[Carole Houlton]

And do you draw your designs before you create or do you just feel it in the moment? Or do you have a template of a drawing you're following?

[Muriel Balency]

I design it, but after usually not every time, but sometimes I change it. You have to keep all the time your open mind. Because the glass have got very, very good suggestions. Because the glass know better than us.

[Carole Houlton]

Does the glass tell you when a piece is finished? Does it say enough?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, I think in art or in jewelry, in every job, in every art, you have got a truth. And even with a kitchen, for example, it's one moment, you know, you feel it with all your body, with your heart and your mind. You feel the equilibria, you feel the harmony. And you say stop. Like poetry, like music and stop. Because after is too much. And so this one, that's why you have to be careful and to be all the time very handle.

[Carole Houlton]

Do you think Glass is underrated as a material for jewelry because people don't often wear glass, do they?

[Muriel Balency]

Because I think before, when you look the story you have got in Africa, all the prince of the king, the queen, queens, even man, you have got one bead. It's one social category. And so before, in this time, glass, it's very appreciate and very precious. And said that they buy man at an island with the beads. But so they have got value now perhaps because after glass begin a little bit Pacottier. Pacotti is a sheep beads. A sheep glass.

[Carole Houlton]

Oh, I see. Because people, people think of beads as something childlike.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes.

[Carole Houlton]

And not sophisticated.

[Muriel Balency]

Exactly.

[Carole Houlton]

But you're explaining to us how sophisticated it can be.

[Muriel Balency]

But people prefer the gem or the stone or the diamond because they think it's more precious. But I think even perhaps it's a society problem because in this society you lost a little bit this sense of the value of the hand, the value of the person. And we would like something that everybody have got like that after can make a selfie and to have got the labelle. And it's better like that rather than before. I think when you have got. It's difficult even to have got an artistical piece, something very original or something like that and glass open this, this kind of possibility.

[Carole Houlton]

Well, this is why I've met Muriel. This because I'm here for the Home of Faber exhibition on the island San Giorgio Maggiore. And this is on for some time. And basically it is sponsored by Richemont, Johann Rupert and his daughter Hanili Rupert who amass the greatest artisans they can find from around the world. And I saw the works this morning and their basket weaving and extraordinary metalwork. Most delicate flowers from Japan. Incredible bamboo, so, so delicate. Made by Korean artisans into hats. Your piece is a glass chessboard, which is amazing. They are celebrating the fact that. That there are so many people working by hand that it should be encouraged. People should find these craftsmen wherever they live there. I mean, you and all the other craftspeople are on their website. So wherever you are in the world, you can go and look at some extraordinary work, which is fantastic. It's a great resource for us all. So doing a chessboard was away from what you usually do. Was that a challenge?

[Muriel Balency]

No, it was because with my beads I make some jewels, but I make even some sculptures, some body jewels installation and a lot of collaborations. And with my boyfriend, Giovanni Nicola, we loop a lot of this kind of collaboration because Giovanni, it was a very, very great glass master and we love to work together. And to mix our love and our love of glass in one piece and with this chessboard for us. Yes, exactly. It was a little bit challenge because one. One day we would like to make a new inspiration with these collaborations. And we have got this idea of the chase board and we make some zampers. And after, when we are okay with the design, the size and the colors, we make this creation in collaboration. So. So a bead inside the Murano glass factory. And this one, we invented this technique.

[Carole Houlton]

You're talking about the chessboard with a bead in the middle?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes. In each piece you have got one bead in the middle of the pieces.

[Carole Houlton]

So you had this idea of that the beads were made here on Murano by you.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, I make the beads and we make research for three years to have got the compatibility and because nobody make it before with a very, very big bead inside. Because it's very complex. Because inside the chessboard, inside the glass factory.

[Carole Houlton]

And what's the next project? Are you working on something now?

[Muriel Balency]

Now I work on this Hysteria necklaces. It's a little sculpture.

[Carole Houlton]

This one now Muriel is describing. I'll put a picture up. It's basically something you could wear with a very plain black dress. It's almost like a big shawl with wisteria grapes all tumbling down sort of around the neck. It goes around the back. It's absolutely beautiful. It's a massive, massive jewel, really, that you would wear around your neck and shoulders. You can't call this a necklace. So you're working on pieces like this to be worn?

[Muriel Balency]

Yes.

[Carole Houlton]

Sort of taking the idea of jewelry and glass and making something really new.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes. I have got this idea because one time I passed in front of shop of one of my friends who makes this a little. Little hysteria with Conterie. These little bits of Murano glass. And I love it. And I have got in front of my eyes for a few months and one day I said, okay, I have to make something in collaboration with her. And I begin this one. And this one is one of my new projects. And I would like to make some new collaboration in glass factory. But in this period, for example, this one, I have to finish it. It's. I cut bead in the middle.

[Carole Houlton]

This is like a round glass sphere. And in it.

[Muriel Balency]

Yes, exactly.

[Carole Houlton]

Most love. It's like a cross between a feather or a fuchsia flower in lots of different swells. Very feathery pattern. It's amazing.

[Muriel Balency]

And I would like to work, of course, with glass masters, Glass maestri to work to make one bead but in the glass factory, but with my technique, same technique. And in glass factory it's not possible to put dots of color. So usually I can't make this one. But I have got an idea. I put some piece of beads and after with a stringer like that.

[Carole Houlton]

A spaghetti. Yes, crystal spaghetti. I'm going to put images up and all the details so if anyone gets over to Murano they should come and sit where I'm sitting. And thank you very much for sharing your secrets, your glass making secrets with us.

[Muriel Balency]

Thank you so much. I'm very happy to meet you. Thank you. Thank you darling.

[Carole Houlton]

Thank you for listening. For this and other episodes of if Jules Could Talk, please go to our website carolwatton.com podcasts. Do share it any way you can and we love to have a rating and a star if possible. The book of the podcast is out now. If Jules Could Talk. FT said it was inspired by the hit podcast if Jules Could Talk. And the South China Morning Post call us the best fashion podcast to make you think. Join me in two weeks for the next jeweled nugget where you will have to think because it's a kind of whodunit. We need to work out whether somebody did it, somebody meant to do it and somebody intended to do it. I will be talking to the author of the King Salute, Richard Wallace, and we need to find out whether there was a confusion, deception, heist or crime. Join me then and thank you for listening. Bye bye. If Jules Could Talk with Carole Walton is produced by Natasha Cowen. Music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley. Illustration by Jordi Labander. You can find our sponsors at fully gemstones.com and [e-mail] SA.