CAROL AND WARD LANDRIGAN IN NYC

Summary

Episode Summary: CAROL AND WARD LANDRIGAN IN NYC

Podcast: If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Walton
Host: Carol Walton
Guests: Ward Landrigan and Nico Landrigan
Release Date: January 9, 2025

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of If Jewels Could Talk, Carol Walton joins Ward Landrigan and his son Nico Landrigan at Verdura’s luxurious showroom on Fifth Avenue, New York City. The conversation centers around Carol’s latest book, "If Jewels Could Talk," exploring the deep-seated human connections with jewelry through historical anecdotes, personal stories, and cultural insights.

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The Palermo Exhibition Story [02:00 – 07:33]

Ward Landrigan recounts the origins of his long-standing friendship with Carol Walton, sparked by a chance invitation from the Mayor of Palermo for an exhibition at Villa Nashemi. The initial hesitation due to concerns over the Mafia was swiftly resolved thanks to insurance from Lloyd’s of London. Ward shares the memorable experience of hosting prestigious guests, including Daisy Moore and a New York Times journalist, highlighting the blend of glamour and unexpected challenges, such as the mishap with Betsy Whitney’s exquisite feathered tiara.

Ward Landrigan [02:00]: "By Lucky happenstance asked Carol to come and that was the beginning of a quarter century friendship."

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Design Inspirations and Iconic Pieces [07:33 – 10:53]

Nico Landrigan delves into the design elements of Verdura’s creations, specifically the Maltese cuff inspired by the Albert Memorial in London. The collaboration between Verdura and Coco Chanel is highlighted, emphasizing how cultural education influenced Chanel's modern jewelry designs.

Jewelry Historian (Carol Walton) elaborates on the historical significance and cultural symbolism embedded in these pieces, revealing how jewelry serves as a narrative device reflecting political, artistic, and social movements.

Carol Walton [08:20]: "And so Mrs. Whitney in her feathered headdress...she was sitting in the bathtub wearing her tiara...it was one of the great families."

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Anecdotes of Iconic Celebrities and Their Jewels [20:50 – 28:47]

Carol Walton shares enchanting stories about managing jewelry for legendary figures like Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. From the dramatic auction of the Krupp diamond to the memorable incident with Elizabeth’s Peregrina pearl disappearing and later rediscovered with added character, these tales underscore the emotional and historical value of jewelry beyond their material worth.

Carol Walton [21:35]: "Elizabeth...said, look at my short fat little fingers. Now I'll never forget that."

Nico reflects on the uniqueness of collecting such iconic pieces today, suggesting that the exclusivity and personal connections of the past are rare in the modern era.

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The Evolution and Symbolism of Brooches [28:04 – 33:04]

The discussion shifts to the changing trends in jewelry, particularly brooches. Carol expresses nostalgia for the brooches' golden age and their role in political movements and personal identity. Nico highlights the resurgence of brooches in contemporary fashion, fueled by platforms like TikTok, and debates their practicality and symbolic significance today.

Carol Walton [32:15]: "It's really just a miniature piece of sculpture and it doesn't have to be money valuable."

They explore how brooches have historically served as badges of honor and tools for political messaging, noting a decline in their use for activism in recent times.

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Personal Stories and Sentimental Value [33:54 – 37:02]

Carol shares a heartwarming story about a quahog clam shell transformed into a stunning piece of jewelry, symbolizing personal connections and the sentimental value imbued in even the simplest objects. This narrative exemplifies how jewelry transcends mere decoration, becoming a vessel for personal and familial stories.

Carol Walton [36:27]: "You can't replace the so-called heirloom."

Nico echoes the sentiment, emphasizing that jewelry serves as a tangible link to one’s heritage and personal history, fulfilling a fundamental human need for storytelling and identity.

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The Transformative Power of Jewelry [37:02 – 40:36]

The conversation culminates with reflections on how jewelry empowers individuals, transforming their self-perception and confidence. Carol reminisces about her early days selling costume jewelry, observing how even affordable pieces had profound impacts on people's sense of beauty and self-worth.

Carol Walton [40:08]: "It tells your story long into the future."

Nico underscores the universal human need that jewelry satisfies, transcending cultural and economic boundaries, and highlights the ongoing legacy of designers like Verdura and the Landrigans in nurturing this essential aspect of human expression.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with an invitation to listeners to explore Carol’s insightful book and tune in for future episodes, promising more intriguing discussions with designers who view jewelry as an extension of personal and cultural narratives.

Carol Walton [40:19]: "I think you'll enjoy the book. I really do."

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Notable Quotes

• Ward Landrigan [02:00]: "By Lucky happenstance asked Carol to come and that was the beginning of a quarter century friendship."
• Carol Walton [08:20]: "And so Mrs. Whitney in her feathered headdress...she was sitting in the bathtub wearing her tiara..."
• Carol Walton [21:35]: "Elizabeth...said, look at my short fat little fingers. Now I'll never forget that."
• Carol Walton [32:15]: "It's really just a miniature piece of sculpture and it doesn't have to be money valuable."
• Carol Walton [40:08]: "It tells your story long into the future."
• Carol Walton [40:19]: "I think you'll enjoy the book. I really do."

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a rich tapestry of stories that highlight the intricate relationship between jewelry, history, and personal identity. Through engaging anecdotes and expert insights, Carol Walton and the Landrigans illuminate why jewelry remains a timeless symbol of human expression and connection.

For more episodes, visit carolwalton.com and follow If Jewels Could Talk on your preferred podcast platform. Don’t forget to rate, comment, and share to support the growing community of jewelry enthusiasts worldwide.

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Produced by: Natasha Cowan
Music and Editing by: Tim Thornton
Graphics by: Scott Bentley
Illustration by: Jordi Labander
Sponsors: Fooley Gemstones and Carol Walton

Transcript

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[Carole Walton]

This episode is brought to you by Fooley Gemstones. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. This is Carole Walton, the voice of Jewellery Today. We're continuing our New York series with an episode that was recorded in the amazing showroom of Verdura, high up on Fifth Avenue. Although remember, we're in New York, you can hear the traffic, it's quite noisy even though it's high up and luxurious and secluded. And I was interviewed by Ward Landrigan and introduced by Nico, his son, the owners who own and run Verdura about the book if Jules Could Talk the book of podcast and it's such a lovely conversation. Ward is so engaging and I managed to get him to talk about some of his stories with Elizabeth Taylor. So listen in and enjoy and thank you for listening.

[Ward Landrigan]

My dad, Ward Landrigan, who you may know within these walls, doesn't need too much introduction but was invited to have an exhibition in Palermo and the British Vogue decided to send only one person.

[Nico Landrigan]

Actually it was Tatler magazine. At that point I yet to move on to British. I was on my way.

[Ward Landrigan]

Tyler. By by, by Lucky happenstance asked Carol to come and that was the beginning of a quarter century friendship.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ward Landrigan]

And we're very lucky tonight because as you know, Carol has her. Her fame proceeds her. But I do have a little list I may. I don't want to embarrass you. Jewelry historian, editor and author and jewelry editor at British vogue for over 20 years, Tatler notwithstanding, she was the first jewelry editor of Tatler magazine and has contributed widely to the late likes of the Financial Times, Vanity Fair, Vogue, Daily Telegraph, Air Mail, Town and Country, American Vogue and has written several books about jewelry including the New Stone Age Vogue, the Jewelry Floral Jewels and Dolce and Gabbana High Jewelry.

[Jewelry Historian]

So lot.

[Ward Landrigan]

Carol curates jewelry. This is the best part. Carol curates jewelry exhibitions and hosts if Jules could Talk the podcast on any.

[Nico Landrigan]

Of your podcast platforms.

[Ward Landrigan]

If you want people in 149 countries listen to this. It has reached number one on Apple podcast charts under fashion. So welcome Carol, congratulations on we're delighted.

[Jewelry Historian]

To have you and I'm glad you're.

[Nico Landrigan]

Here, I'm very happy to be here.

[Jewelry Historian]

And we'll have a book signing afterwards. And you're all welcome to take a book home. They're not being sold, they're being given, so.

[Nico Landrigan]

And how about that for a book launch where you don't have to buy a book.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah, that's different. Anyway, so. Yes, actually it's funny, just a little lead in to this Palermo show. When we met, actually, Nico was with us. He was, I believe you were 10 at the time and your sister was there. It was an amazing event. We were invited by the mayor of Palermo. But the call came to me on a Saturday morning, I don't know, maybe 8:00. A little early for a Saturday morning. And this gruff Italian, heavily Italian accented voice. I'm the Major of Palermo. I can't do the accent. I'm thinking major of Palermo. And I knew it was a friend of mine having fun at my expense. So I'm going, yeah, who? Come on, who is it? And turns out it was the Mayor of Palermo. We figured that out. And then he said, we'd like to do a show in Verdura's home, which is called Villa Nashemi and it's owned by the government now and it's one of the really interesting palazzos still in extent and been restored and all that in the middle of a garden, actually. It's kind of wonderful. And so I said, oh yeah, that'd be interesting because he said, you know, we'll pay expenses. And you know, that rings true. And then I started thinking Palermo because they were having a lot of problems with the Mafia at that time. So about a week later, I had already let Lloyds of London, who ensures all jewelers know that we were invited. And they said, no way, no way. You cannot show your jewelry in Palermo. So I called the Major of Palermo back and told him. He said, who's your insurance company? I said, lloyd's. He said, okay. That was the end conversation. About two hours later, I had a call saying it was no problem whatsoever. I don't know what transpired. We had our insurance, which mattered a lot anyway, we had a really good time.

[Nico Landrigan]

It was actually one of the more eccentric press trips I've ever been on, which was we laughed a lot, didn't we? I mean, there was three of us. There was Daisy Moore, the granddaughter of the great author Ethan Moore, who was writing it up for the Daily Mail. There was me for Tatler and there was someone from the New York Times. So we made a very odd Trio. We had to go and see all the sights, didn't we?

[Jewelry Historian]

We did.

[Nico Landrigan]

And it was, it was a great trip. Filmy. It was amazing. And there's a wonderful story that Fulco himself was born. There's a wonderful marble hallway entrance and there is. It's a star in the center of the marble. And the story is that he was born on this star. And of course, the being an American journalist, the New York Times journalist was. I don't believe this. I'm going on to the record hall. I don't believe he was born in the middle of this stuff. Daisy War. And I, on the other hand, being British, well, we quite like that story. We gotta go with it. And did, and did. And then we had the blonde PR girl who came from New York, who was obviously a big socialite and she was kind of unhelpful really. And then on the eve of the exhibition, there is the most wonderful tiara that I don't know if any of you have seen, which was created for Betsy Whitney when she was going to be presented at the court of St James when her husband was going to be ambassador to the uk. And it's this feathered head dress which Ward will tell you more about. But it is spectacular, incredibly delicate. I'm amazed you let Hamish Bowles wear it to the Met Gala. But anyway, I can't believe he did. Helpful people PR picked it up just before the exhibition started and dropped it.

[Jewelry Historian]

And it broke in half. I mean, it was a gold break, so we could fix it, but I mean, what a way to start a show. The star piece of the show is on the floor in two pieces. Welcome to Palermo. But that's just sort of.

[Nico Landrigan]

Well, I do actually mention that in the book because I cover feathered headdresses in all their forms. You know, 18th century aigrettes made with feathered plumes on diamond headdresses that at the time these feathers cost more than an ounce of gold. They were so sought after to the Native American Indian headdresses, to the feathered bits that Kate Moss wears in Vogue. And of course the Whitney tiara. And tell us why Vadura designed it like that.

[Jewelry Historian]

Well, he got the idea apparently from the Albert Memorial we all know and love in London. And if you walk around the outside of it, each corner represents part of the world and the Americas is represented by a bare breasted woman with a feathered headdress. Supposedly, you know, you see it in old maps and everything, it was the older version, symbol for America anyway. But since Mrs. At the time, Chuck Whitney was the richest man in America. This is 1956, and he had helped Eisenhower get elected. So he was made ambassador to the Court of St. James. And for the occasion of the appointment of an ambassador, there's a ceremony with the queen. And Betsy heard about it and decided that, you know, she was gonna. Because she knew all the English would have on tiaras. You know, they. They rent them. They do. They rent them. You can rent a tiara on Bond Street. Anyway, so all these rented tiaras, there was Mrs. Whitney in her. In her feathered headdress. And she actually, she told me, I. I got to know her towards the end of her life. She told me that the hairdresser, because you have to sew this thing into your hair, has little holes in it because it weighs, like, three pounds, and you sew it into the hair so it doesn't fall off. So the palace sent a hairdresser long before she was ready to have her hair done. But because the palace had sent the hairdresser, she went along with it. So when Ambassador Whitney came back from the embassy that night, she's sitting in the bathtub wearing her tia. And it's one of the. The whole family is. Yeah, it's one of the great families to. Anyway, but we're here to talk about a book, and I. I read it, actually twice and read it twice.

[Nico Landrigan]

Most people who interview need to have never read it.

[Jewelry Historian]

There's a lot of material, and it's also fun because she takes seven categories of the jewelry that all of us would have, whether it's rings or necklaces or brooches, and talks about them, but also from a historic point of view, not belabored, not making you, you know, like, oh, my God, this is a history lesson. You know, how these things came to be representative of a certain kind of thing at a certain time. And I learned a lot, and it was great fun. And it's your turn.

[Nico Landrigan]

Basically, it was commissioned from the podcast, which Ward has started on a couple of occasions. And I had to sort of come up with this idea because they like the kind of stories that I tell on the podcast. And so I sort of had this idea that, you know, having been an editor at Vogue and written for American Vogue and styled for years, and always was sort of chasing the new and sort of saying, this is the new season. This is all change. This is all, you know, different. And I suddenly thought, actually, nothing much is different. And actually, if you go back to the beginning, I think whatever time of the earth you're born into whatever culture or civilization. We essentially wear the same things. And I thought, if you're Tutankhamun and there are the beads across his chest, that was when Howard Carter found the tomb. I mean, they're young people today at music festivals wear beads. They're not as grand or as old as Tutankhamun's, but they are the same and they show really how we live. They shine a light on what matters to us and our beliefs. And I think they always have done. So I thought, actually it's about seven objects that tell this story. And I chose the bead, head ornament, the cuff, the brooch and the ring. And I thought sort of that's pretty well encompassed it. And I've written their histories. And in that, really, I feel that it tells the kind of human history, really, because it shines a light on all cultural aspects of how we live, whether it's politics, art, fashion, religion, war, revolution, whatever we've done. I think Joy's been there to tell the story. And certainly, you know, having been a Vogue editor for so many years, I fought religiously with all the fashion editors because I felt that jewelry told the story, story of dress every bit as much as fashion. And in this book, I think it hopefully tells lots more stories.

[Jewelry Historian]

It does, it does. It opens windows that you can see. And I mean, I. We were talking earlier. You were an art history major?

[Nico Landrigan]

No, no, I was journalist and fashion journalist.

[Jewelry Historian]

Okay. Well, I was like a lot of people in their 60s was an art history major and I was. And nobody talked about the jewelry. And it just fascinated me for. Because it was considered important. I mean, apart from the fact that most of it was very expensive, but it, you know, most of it had historic significance. And that's the other thing that comes out in the book, I think, the fun things that, you know, what we talked about, the pearl and dog and all that.

[Nico Landrigan]

Oh, yes. But also, I think for Jura, I do a whole chapter on cuffs. And I think that Verduro was very, very instrumental in the importance of cuffs because it was his relationship with Coco Chanel that instigated the Maltese cuff being created. And he really, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was very important in sort of the education of Chanel understanding different cultures.

[Jewelry Historian]

She was very, very bright and she loved to learn. And they met at a cocktail bowl. It was more than a cocktail. It was a four day party, a lot of cocktails in Venice. And it was hosted by Cole and Linda Porter. And they had, in that one summer they had rented the Palazzo Rizzonico, which is one of. Now it's one of the best museums. The building amazing, right on the main canal. Anyway, they rented it and filled it with their friends for the summer. But they gave this amazing party. They had met Verdura on their honeymoon. They went to Palermo. By the way, Palermo at the time, at the turn of the century, was a very important destination in terms of. Was considered like the shop of France. The tsar went there and the king went there because it was. It was glamorous. Anyway, Foucault, I don't know under what circumstances, met Cole and Linda Porter on their honeymoon. And then several years later they had this party and Venice invited him. He met Chanel and she liked men, and especially men with the title. And he was good looking, someone short. Anyway, she invited him to come to Paris and like, you know, a lot of people of his age, he had nothing else to do. And he said sure. And she put him to work designing textiles because he could draw very well. But within six months the two of them had started traveling around and he was. To the education thing. He was. He was teaching her about the history of George because he had grown up in a family with it. And she had jewelry from her former lovers and he was taking it apart and putting the stones into modern jewelry. Modern in that she could wear. She had invented the little black dress. But the jewelry that she had was either Victorian, which didn't work, or Art deco, which also didn't work because she wanted to have, you know, she'd invented this cotton materials that were light and anyway, it's your turn.

[Nico Landrigan]

I think in their travels, the mosaics, Byzantine art was incredibly important, wasn't it?

[Jewelry Historian]

Oh, yeah.

[Nico Landrigan]

And I think from that he created a Maltese cuff for her originally, wasn't it? Yeah, it was for her originally.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah, exactly. She wore them all the time, almost every painting or drawing.

[Nico Landrigan]

And there's one other story that I really love actually, that involves Verdurer, which was the Duchess of Windsor, because he designed a lot for her, didn't he?

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah.

[Nico Landrigan]

And he didn't like her.

[Jewelry Historian]

No, he didn't. He knew Edward. He. He knew Edward before this whole, you know, the abdication. Apparently they were on both that went from London to Johannesburg or something. It was. Anyway, it sounds like it was an interesting event, but they knew each other previously. So when Wallace came along, Verdure, you know, he was titled and all that. And he thought of her as, you know, whatever the word arrives arrivist. How do you say it? Anyway, so. Well, you finished this.

[Nico Landrigan]

He. She bought a brooch. Which flower was it? It was a rose and she wore it a lot and she wore it out at dinners and obviously she went and she worked a lot with Cartier and Van Cleef and went and discussed the sort of jewelry she'd like.

[Carole Walton]

So she.

[Nico Landrigan]

She became convinced that really she had designed this rose.

[Carole Walton]

And so at dinners, people would say.

[Nico Landrigan]

I love your brooch. Yes, I designed it. And anyway, in time, she obviously wanted to. To upgrade and have another piece of jewel. And so she came back to Vadura and said, could I change this? I'd like to change it for another jewel. And he said, we'd love to. We would change it, but I understand this is your design, so we can't change.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah.

[Nico Landrigan]

So he caught her out.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah, she was apparently fun to catch up.

[Nico Landrigan]

So I love that story. And then tell the Toronto and Power, because I think that I sort of think, you know, I talk about in the book Posey Williams, that were, you know, great fashion in the 16th century when people would write little poems and. And they were mainly in French, which was the language then of sort of courtly love and shows. They were quite elite because the elite would have spoken French and they have, you know, charming poems. And there's one in the British Museum that says, wear this and think of me M double E. And I feel that's the sentiment that most jury's given in, really, that it's think of me when you've given it. And didn't Tyrone Power.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah. When he was. I'm just curious, raise of hands, how many people who know who Tyrone Taro was? That's a lot. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, he was. He was a famous actor and he was. They used to say he was better looking than any of his leading ladies. I mean, he was really handsome and, you know, everybody loved him. Anyway, he got married and he wanted to. This is 1941. He wanted to give his wife something special. And he came in and met with Rhodora and they came up with the idea of giving his heart gift Rant. And that was the first of the wrapped hearts, you know, which was famous because they made a ruby. Made a ruby heart and then wrapped it and tied it into foam.

[Nico Landrigan]

And then they got divorced.

[Jewelry Historian]

One year later, she got to keep the brooch.

[Nico Landrigan]

I don't know how you can divorce somebody who's so romantic and gives you that. I want to give her my heart back.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah.

[Nico Landrigan]

It's amazing. It sounds good, but it is that sort of saying.

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[Nico Landrigan]

I've been lucky enough to host Ford on my podcast a couple of times, and what people really, really love and respond to are the Elizabeth Taylor stories. Talking about women who have an avaricious desire for jewels. And ward, of course, is the person who sold Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton her most important pieces. That pearl, the crop diamond, the Taylor Burton diamond. He is the man who stood at auction and bought these things for them.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah, well, I mean, the first one, we didn't know who was bidding on it.

[Nico Landrigan]

And which one was that?

[Jewelry Historian]

That was the Krupp diamond.

[Nico Landrigan]

Okay.

[Jewelry Historian]

And a dealer came and how big was the diamond?

[Nico Landrigan]

Yes.

[Jewelry Historian]

31 carats.

[Nico Landrigan]

A titler for her.

[Jewelry Historian]

It was her favorite jewelry. Anyway, she. I didn't know it was for her, but I had taken this staff or auction staff out for a drink at the local bar, and someone came running in and said, did you hear? We just heard on the radio that Elizabeth Taylor bought the diamond because Vera Krupp was the Krupp Steel. People had. I mean, there was a whole backstory. It had been stolen from her and ended up in New York. And they started recutting it. And, I mean, it's a whole. Anyway, so the good news was Elizabeth owned it. So I'm saying, oh, that's wonderful. What wonderful publicity. And the fellow said, yeah, but she wants it right now. I said, well, we'll get it to her. And they said, yeah, but she's in London and you're the only one that has the insurance to. Anyway, so the next morning, I was. Well, I had to go right away. I mean, like, get on the plane with no luggage. And I did. And next morning, knocking on the door, their suite at the Dorchester Hotel. And I never met a movie star. And Richard in his bathrobe opens the door and says. He looks at me, goes, where is it? I said, it's in my pocket. It was where it was. It was in my pocket. And he leaned over his shoulder, goes, Elizabeth. And she comes roaring out of the bedroom and she looked at it. She actually said, said oh, expletive. I was oh is what she said. She just looked at it and she put it on her hand and she said, look at my short fat little fingers. Now I'll never forget that. I kind of like this one shortcut. Little. Anyway, so I, I, well that went on for days because they were filming where Eagles Dare, the movie with the Cyclades. Anyway, so whatever went on these days, I would go to, went to Wales because Richard's brother gave them a party at a beer hall. And they sat Elizabeth in a chair in the middle of all this sawdust, plunked her in the middle. And these Welsh people, everybody was very nice, but there was a lot of drinking going on and she let everybody, all the women try on the diamond and I'm supposed to be responsible for it. Anyway, it was fun. But then I, that was the first time and then the second time I was in Stad.

[Nico Landrigan]

So where did you take that to Las Vegas?

[Jewelry Historian]

No, no, that was the Pearl.

[Nico Landrigan]

Okay, so when did you go to Shard? What, what one was that?

[Jewelry Historian]

That was the, that was the Cartier down in the 69 carat.

[Nico Landrigan]

So she's going upgraded now 69 carats and then what again, the same thing. You had to hold on playing.

[Jewelry Historian]

I mean it was, it was fun. I mean I, you know, like, wow, this is cool. I'm a little happy story. And they were very nice. I mean, you know, we had really small dinner at night. She loved to play ping pong. Actually my wife's here somewhere. I don't know.

[Nico Landrigan]

Yeah, so Judith benefited from this.

[Jewelry Historian]

Well, when she, during, during dinner she was wearing a red Halston and I. Yeah, she looked great. I mean she was great looking anyway. And this was, she was a little on the heavy sided. She'd already made Virginia Woolf.

[Nico Landrigan]

But she looked, she had extra carrots. She was carrying.

[Jewelry Historian]

She did. She, she just had, I mean, she had charisma. I mean. And what was it?

[Nico Landrigan]

So the red alon dress and you said you liked it.

[Jewelry Historian]

Well, I admired it. I liked her. I mean, you know, and she was, she was very good dinner conversation. So after dinner she always liked to play ping pong. And they had, in the basement of this chalet there was a ping pong table. So after dinner we're down and then she made her entrance in a green dress. And I said why did you change? You look so wonderful. She said, I had my maid wrap up the dress for your wife. My wife. This is back there when Judith tried it on the decollete came below the navy. Two very different shapes of people. I wish we'd kept it. I think we didn't, but anyway.

[Carole Walton]

And what were you drinking with Richard?

[Jewelry Historian]

Oh, that was. That's Las Vegas. That's another. There was a pearl called the Peregrina that belonged to the French crown. Not the French crown, Scottish crown. Anyway, it belonged to a lot of people and I delivered at 1 o'clock in the morning. If in. They were staying at the bridal suite of Caesar's palace, which is. Looks like a tennis court with pink shag carpet. You can't believe the size, but the carpet was this thick. And Elizabeth was there with her hangers on. And Richard again opens the door, says, hi, how are you? Here's the girl. What would you have to drink? I said, well, I'll have what you're having. He said, we're having salty dogs. Oh boy, I don't know what a salty dog is. He said, it's vodka and clam juice at 1 in the morning. So I had a few salty dogs. Anyway, Elizabeth, within less than 20 minutes, comes running over and does the pearl hung on a little chain here. And she said, look, it's gone. And I looked down, there's only the chain. The pearl's gone. And it had been through, you know, 400 years of history and all the.

[Nico Landrigan]

Books, monarchs, all kinds, everybody had.

[Jewelry Historian]

Had owned it and. And she had it 20 minutes.

[Nico Landrigan]

We couldn't.

[Jewelry Historian]

So we're all down on our hands and knees through this pink carpet. And I crawled past a white settee and under it was one of her Chid Lhasa apsos. And one of them was under the settee. And I go, I look and I go. And it goes. So I reached under and then I got. So I said, elizabeth, I think I know where the pearl is. And she got it. And it was. Had little teeth marks in it, but it was Elizabeth, dog teeth marks. And then that made it more valuable. It brought $11 million at auction and they paid $33,500.

[Nico Landrigan]

Wow.

[Jewelry Historian]

She did very well on her tour.

[Nico Landrigan]

I mean, do you think there's any woman nowadays who could have amass a collection like that? I mean, the way that happened and that somebody publicly wanting to buy these things, it's not possible as it would.

[Jewelry Historian]

No. Well, I mean, she really was very rich. I mean, you know, her first, she was 14 when she made National Velvet and she always made movies and she just, you know, it was her life. She was just an unusual woman.

[Nico Landrigan]

Yeah. But I guess the fact that these unique things have now sort of raised so much in value, it wouldn't be possible for someone to collect them.

[Jewelry Historian]

No, of course, the diamonds should. They paid at 350,000 or about 305,000 for the ring, and it sold for eight and a half million. So, I mean, there was a good appreciation in everything she bought, but they didn't buy for investments. She also had a big payment.

[Nico Landrigan]

And what have you noticed most in your career in the change of the way people wear jewelry?

[Jewelry Historian]

That's a really good question. Well, there was a period when people were wearing, like the 90s, and then after that, things sort of got very plain. I mean, it's the way it is. And I think the thing I miss most, probably because Fedora made a lot of them, is brooches. There's something. Did any of you see the exhibition of Madeline Albright's collection when I was here?

[Nico Landrigan]

Read my pins.

[Jewelry Historian]

Read my pins. And it was. It was fascinating. And the only reason I knew about it, as it turns out, she had inherited ver. Jewelry from her. From her in laws. And she didn't know she was Jewish, it turns out. And the family's name was. I think it was Florschon. And. And anyway, we had these records of her. She sent me pictures of the jewelry. I said, oh, my God, that's jewelry from 1947 that was sold to the Florsheim family in Chicago. And it turns out they were her relatives anyway. But she had beautiful jewelry. I love the story she told me when she. When she met Yasser Arafat, she wore her snake brooch. I mean, just, you know, things like that.

[Nico Landrigan]

Negotiations. And the Russians allegedly were bugging the. The meeting. She'd wear a bug, a great big bug to say, I know what you. And anything was going too slowly. Negotiation. A tortoise. So she carried these messages, didn't she?

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah, and it was. I mean, she. There were like 150 brooches in the exhibition. They weren't all very valuable, but she had. I mean, she was a woman that collected brooches your whole life.

[Nico Landrigan]

Well, it did start a bit of a trend because, you know, the late Queen Elizabeth always wore brooches. And it did start the press on what I call brooch watch.

[Carole Walton]

Literally every single brooch.

[Nico Landrigan]

What they had to attribute some meanings, a secret message, whether it was a political one or. And I remember when Donald Trump visited the uk, she appeared wearing a brooch that the Obamas had given her. Obviously, she was actually. Actually, I think she was very Polite. And she wore her brooches in a sort of thematic way. You know, if you're in Australia you wore the wattle. You were in Canada, you wear the maple leaf. So I think she was sort of.

[Carole Walton]

Paying homage to the US saying, oh.

[Nico Landrigan]

This is a US brooch. But of course everyone went crazy and took it as a political statement. Do you think people buy as many birches now?

[Jewelry Historian]

Well, it's funny, the last five years, the red carpet, et cetera, they've been seeing men wearing them. I mean we used to sort of have as a joke.

[Nico Landrigan]

Frank Everett over there always wears one.

[Jewelry Historian]

I said not now, I'm going to borrow one. But I just, I love the look of it. I mean, you know, it's really just a miniature piece of sculpture and it doesn't have to be valuable. I mean like money valuable. You know, there's a lot of, I don't know, there's a lot of acreage on material that calls for a brooch. You look around and see them and they're just really good looking things. Not because I owned 300. Well, they were out of fashion for a few years but we kept buying them anyway.

[Nico Landrigan]

Yeah, but on TikTok there's 100 million hits on hashtag bring back the brooch. You know, I think, yeah, it's amazing. So I, I kind of feel like they are going to come back but I don't see that many people wearing.

[Jewelry Historian]

No, I think one of the problems is most of the brooches were designed at a time when they wore heavy materials and it's gotten lighter and lighter and lighter and I mean we figured out ways to make it stay like. I mean it sounds corny but it could. Cutting a 2 inch diameter circle out of a plastic milk bottle and then working the holes out and you put it underneath the material so then the brooch doesn't do this. So it stands. Right. But I mean not everybody wants to cut up a milk carton to learn the brooch.

[Nico Landrigan]

I think actually I write in the bridges I cover in the book. I talk a lot about of political bridges. A suffragette movement basically campaigned to get the boat in England by wearing. They used the colours white, green and violet for sort of to symbolize the movement and it was a way to recognize each other, to see a fellow suffragette and as a sort of like a badge of honour. And they also had Holloway brooches. So anyone who'd been force fed in Holloway prison had a particular brooch that they would wear with a sort of like a portcullis and I think there have been different moments in history. The anti slavery movement where people have worn particular brooches and I think we've lost that art really, of campaigning using jewelry.

[Jewelry Historian]

And the last one, that was almost universal with the AIDS brooch, the little ribbon. Yes, they were around and it brought awareness to a horrible situation.

[Ward Landrigan]

But it was useful.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah, that's when they give a message. The other thing I find is that I think it's hard for a man to choose unless he has specific knowledge of, you know, she likes hippopotamus. No, it's hippopotamuses. Anyway, it doesn't matter unless the fellow knows what's going to look good on her. And not a lot of guys don't. I mean, they're good at spending money, but they don't understand the whole thing. And, but it's still, I think when a guy actually gives a girl approach or any tool, it doesn't matter. There's a tremendous sentimental attachment to it. I mean, in the time that I've been in this business, which is 55 years, women didn't buy their own jewelry, or at least they didn't admit it when I started. And then there was this transition period where the woman would give a hint of what she wanted, which was mean. She'd come in and look around and leave a list of what she wanted and then we'd have to pretend it's just little things that, you know, I think she might like this, but I mean, it made it easier for him.

[Nico Landrigan]

But do you think women have always worn it to show their identity and do you think that has changed or not?

[Jewelry Historian]

That's a really good question. I don't know. I mean, I think some do and some don't. I mean, sometimes it's just a pretty, some it's just color, you know, sort of call attention. Yeah, I can't answer that question. I wish I could.

[Nico Landrigan]

Well, I guess, you know, however many years you've done it, you still haven't got to the bottom of what women want. So it changes with each one. That sounds decorative.

[Jewelry Historian]

It looks more personal than a piece of jewelry, you know, and, and, and you, you. I mean, it's also, if you, if it came to you by descendant from grandmother or relative, it means so much. And we see this when there's a robbery. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a big diamond, there's a big emerald, and then there's this thing that was given to them by their grandmother and that's the only thing that they're upset about, you know, the insurance company is going to pay for the other stuff, but you can't replace the so called heirloom and jewel replaced that rule.

[Nico Landrigan]

It tells your story long into the future. Something that you've had in the family or that you've been given and it will tell your story and go forward. And I say in the book, basically, it answers a sort of human need. It's not a human kind of desire, it's just a need. And I think we're talking about beautiful jewels here tonight. But in many cases it's. It shows a light on different cultures and it's not necessarily something elitist or expensive. It can be a shell, it can be a pin, it can be anything. It can be a pebble from the beach. It's just what we imbue in it and how we wear it.

[Jewelry Historian]

Yeah, you make it important by liking it. I mean, it's like walking. I mean, we have mounted pebbles for people who find them on the beach, but you can imagine. And there's one, one piece we have, actually. It's in our museum collection. The story may be apocryphal, but it's a. It's a quahog clam shell found on the beaches of the Hamptons. And it was in. I guess it was in the late 30s, early 40s. Apparently one of the old elderly dowagers who no longer had a husband was having a fling with her pool boy once one summer, and he gave her a clamshell, as you know, just for like here. What else is he giving her? And she took it to Verdura and he mounted it. It's quite remarkable. I remember Kohak is about that big. He has diamonds and sapphire seaweed coming up one side, and it's all fitted out in gold inside. It's a compact. I had a call from the Coney Island Aquarium one day and they said, we have something here that has your name on it. Are you kidding me? It was my name. Anyway, so I said, tell me. And they said, well, it's a. It's a clamshell with sapphires and d. I said, I know what it is because we knew the drawing, but we'd never seen the beast. So I bought it as part of our exhibition. No, I know, like your wildest imagination cannot possibly encompass all the stuff that.

[Nico Landrigan]

Happens and the mysteries that go with George, because there's so many mysteries. So anyway, so the book is about this kind of deep human need. And we're just so happy that there are people like Fulco The Jura and the Landrigans, who keep on his legacy, who provide these things to fulfill that need.

[Jewelry Historian]

So, yeah, the thing is, I think we were talking again earlier. You know, people, when minute you say jewelry, they think of money. I mean, it's got to be valuable and it's sparkles and all that. But there's. There's so much. I mean, wonderful. Even costume. And I only say even costume because I started out selling Trafari jewelry in New Jersey when I was 14. And, well, I sing. I mean, my friends, mothers, these are women I knew from baking cookies and getting in trouble. They'd come in and try on a piece of Trafari, which is plastic. I'm seeing them in looking in the mirror. And this is. You could see in her eyes and the way she was talking, her body, it transformed her. She felt. She felt beautiful or something. I don't know what it was, but I knew it was positive. You know, an expensive piece would be $150. And these were working people. So 150 then was a lot of money. But people bought them and then.

[Nico Landrigan]

And then they transformed themselves and it tells their story. But wood, I think we should probably go and have a drink now.

[Jewelry Historian]

I think it's a really good idea.

[Nico Landrigan]

Good to have a drink and I.

[Jewelry Historian]

Think you'll enjoy the book. I really do.

[Nico Landrigan]

Well, thank you. And I just want to thank Miladrin very, very much for inviting me and hosting me and giving me this such a special evening.

[Carole Walton]

Thank you for listening for. For this and other episodes of the podcast, please go to our website carolwalton.com podcasts do share it any way you can. We love to have a rating and a comment and we've had some wonderful stats through from Spotify showing that you are sharing the podcast, which is so great. Thank you. And we're garnering more listeners every day around the world, which I'm thrilled about, and. And join me again in two weeks for the next jewelled nugget. Again from New York, where I spoke with a modern designer who shares the same obsession as Louis xvi. Weirdly, it's about locks. So join me then to find out more. Thank you for listening and wishing you a sparkling 2025. If Jules could talk with Carol Woolterness Produced by Natasha Cowan. Music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley. Illustration by Jordi Labander. You can find our sponsors@ fully gemstones.com and [e-mail].