CARTIER AT LONDON'S V&A MUSEUM

Summary

Podcast Summary: "CARTIER AT LONDON'S V&A MUSEUM"

If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton delves into the grandeur of Cartier’s latest exhibition at the Victoria and Albert Museum (V&A) in London. Hosted by Carol Woolton, Britain’s leading authority on jewellery and gemstones, this episode provides an in-depth exploration of Cartier's illustrious legacy, the meticulous curation of the exhibition, and the profound impact of Cartier’s designs on both royal and popular culture.

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1. Introduction to the Cartier Exhibition

Carol Woolton opens the episode, immersing listeners in the anticipation surrounding Cartier’s monumental exhibition at the V&A. Described as the "hottest ticket in town," the exhibition marks the first major UK showcase dedicated to Cartier in nearly three decades.

[01:21] Carol Woolton: "Welcome to if Jewels Could Talk. I'm Carol Woolton, the voice of Jewellery, and this morning I'm at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London for the press preview of a fantastic new exhibition, Cartier, simply called Cartier."

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2. Historical Significance of Cartier in London

The conversation with Pierre Raniere and Pascal Le Peu traces Cartier’s deep-rooted history in London, dating back to 1902. They discuss how Cartier established itself as an essential jeweller for the British elite, becoming the official supplier to King Edward VII.

[03:11] Pascal Le Peu: "It is said that effectively, if Cartier had to, to be an official supplier to the King, he had to be in London. So that's what we did."

This strategic move facilitated Cartier’s influence during significant events such as coronations, providing jewels and tiaras to the British peerage.

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3. Exhibition Highlights

a. Royal Collection Pieces

The exhibition boasts an impressive array of pieces from the Royal Collection, including the cherished Williamson Diamond brooch and the Princess Royal's pine tree aquamarine tiara.

[05:05] Pascal Le Peu: "I like very much the little Buddha with his moving hands, because it's very touching."

b. Iconic Pieces and Symbolism

Notable highlights include the Bird in the Cage, a poignant symbol created during the Nazi occupation of Paris, and the Maria Felix snake necklace, reflecting Cartier’s blend of artistry and personal expression.

[09:32] Carol Woolton: "The bird in the cage was created in 1942 by Jeanne Toussaint. It symbolized the French people under the Nazi occupation."

Maria Felix’s snake necklace exemplifies Cartier’s ability to merge aesthetic beauty with deep personal symbolism.

c. The Panther Motif

The Panther remains a quintessential Cartier symbol, representing elegance, independence, and power. The exhibition introduces a new evolution of the Panther collection, showcasing its versatility from figurative to abstract designs.

[23:19] Pascal Le Peu: "The panther is a theme of inspiration, very symbolic of independence, elegance, daring, taste."

d. Egyptian and Art Deco Influences

Cartier’s creations are heavily influenced by global cultures, particularly Egyptian and Art Deco styles. The exhibition features pieces inspired by the discovery of Tutankhamun’s tomb and showcases intricate designs that blend ancient motifs with modern craftsmanship.

[20:03] Pascal Le Peu: "Cartier had the particularity to use authentic Egyptian items to build objects like jewelry or boxes, adding layers of history and craftsmanship."

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4. Curating and Acquiring Masterpieces

Carol Woolton and her guests discuss the extensive efforts involved in assembling the exhibition, which includes acquiring over 200 pieces from the Cartier collection and securing 150 additional loans. The process emphasizes Cartier’s commitment to preserving its heritage while continually seeking out rare and significant items.

[08:33] Carol Woolton: "Since the exhibition at the British Museum, every year we are lucky to buy back different pieces for the Cartier collection. It's like a big puzzle, trying to find the missing pieces."

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5. Vision and Strategy Behind Cartier’s Legacy

Pascal Le Peu highlights the foresight of Cartier’s founders, particularly the strategic vision of Pierre and Jacques Cartier, which established the brand’s global presence and enduring relevance.

[04:28] Pierre Raniere: "London was the first public abroad, and when we created New York in 1909, Pierre moved to New York and Jacques worked in London till his death."

This strategic expansion ensured Cartier's dominance in key markets, reinforcing its position as a leading luxury jeweller.

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6. Insights from Helen Molesworth, Senior Curator of Jewellery at the V&A

Helen Molesworth provides a curator’s perspective on the exhibition, detailing the narrative structure that highlights Cartier’s creativity, craftsmanship, and legacy. She emphasizes the importance of displaying both the design process and the materials that define Cartier’s masterpieces.

[38:21] Helen Molesworth: "The exhibition is broken into three sections: creativity, craftsmanship, and legacy. This structure allows us to showcase the inspirations, materials, and innovative evolution of Cartier over time."

Molesworth also discusses her unique role as a gemologist, which enriches the exhibition by intertwining scientific knowledge with historical storytelling.

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7. Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Carol Woolton on Cartier’s London Presence:

  [00:05] "The purpose of the Cartier collection is to share with people because there are very, very few opportunities."

• Pascal Le Peu on the Bird in the Cage:

  [09:32] "The bird in the cage was created in 1942 by Jeanne Toussaint... it was the symbol of Paris."

• Helen Molesworth on the Power of Provenance:

  [47:15] "Provenance is a nice way of history continuing. So you're looking back and forwards at the same time."

• Pascal Le Peu on the Panther’s Symbolism:

  [23:19] "The panther is a theme of inspiration, very symbolic of independence, elegance, daring, taste."

• Helen Molesworth on Creativity and Design:

  [38:24] "The Powerhouse. No explanation necessary."

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8. Conclusion and Exhibition Details

Carol Woolton wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to visit the exhibition, highlighting the interactive and multifaceted experience it offers. She underscores the rarity of such a comprehensive display of Cartier’s work and the importance of booking tickets in advance due to high demand.

[54:55] Helen Molesworth: "If you love jewellery, there are multiple reasons to come back. There's so much to see."

The exhibition runs until November, with the V&A’s Bollinger Gallery also showcasing existing in situ jewellery displays, providing visitors with a broader context of Cartier’s influence.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of If Jewels Could Talk serves as a rich, informative guide to Cartier’s extraordinary exhibition at the V&A Museum. Through expert insights and captivating stories, Carol Woolton paints a vivid picture of Cartier’s enduring legacy, innovative designs, and the intricate craftsmanship that continues to define the maison as a paragon of luxury and elegance.

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Exhibition Details:

• Title: Cartier
• Location: Victoria and Albert Museum, London
• Duration: Until November
• Booking: Required in advance via the V&A website
• Additional Features: Bollinger Gallery’s in situ jewellery exhibition

For more information, listeners are encouraged to visit the V&A website and explore Carol Woolton’s insights on her website.

Transcript

[Carole Woolton]

The purpose of the Cashew collection is to share, to share with people because there are very, very few opportunities. You're lucky in London because you have.

[Pierre Raniere]

The gallery of the Small Engine gallery here for DNA.

[Carole Woolton]

So you have an important collection of jewels, but there are very few collections of jewels in museums in the world.

[Helen Molesworth]

And there's one really lovely letter where Pierre, who's the second, writes to Jacques, who's the youngest brother, and he says, I know you're the youngest, but we need you. You can't think that you're going to step back from the family business. You're part of the trinity.

[Carole Houlton]

I'm Carole Houlton, the voice of Jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realise they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewellery culture and investigate what's happening now.

[Pierre Raniere]

Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm Carole Woolton, the voice of Jewellery, and this morning I'm at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London for the press preview of a fantastic new exhibition, Cartier, simply called Cartier. That's all they need. And it opened last night with a fantastic dinner at the VA. It is the first exhibition, a major UK exhibition, in nearly 30 years, dedicated to Cartier, exploring how the maison became an unparalleled force in jewels and watches. And it tells the story of the house's legacy of art, design and craftsmanship since the turn of the 20th century. And it's the hottest ticket in town. Daily Telegraphs, headlines screaming, Cartier invented glamour. There's a bar opposite the VA who are doing hidden gems cocktails, so you can go and get a Cartier themed cocktail. So London has gone crazy for Cartier and I'm delighted to be here this morning with Pierre Raniere, who is Cartier's image, style and heritage director. Thank you for being here on a very busy day. Anne Pascal Le Peu, who is the director of the Cartier collection. Pascal, thank you for joining me. I mean, Pierre, London's gone crazy for Cartier, but this is not the first time our city has gone crazy for Cartier, is it?

[Pascal Le Peu]

Oh, I think everything started very early, when Cartier started its activity in London in 1902. When you go through the books, you know of our first clients in London in that year, you can realize immediately that it was a success.

[Pierre Raniere]

Well, 1902, you came to London by.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Royal command, didn't you? It is said that there is a, let's say, a kind of pressure from the new king, Edward VII at the time, who was, as Prince of Wales, already a client in Paris. And it is said that effectively, if Cartier had to, let's say, to be an official supplier to the King, he had to be in London. So that's what we did.

[Pierre Raniere]

And for his coronation, it made it easier for all the peers and peeresses to get there jewels and tiaras without crossing the channel.

[Pascal Le Peu]

That's right, that's right. And very, very early also, we developed our own studio with our own designers in London. And also one of the first ateliers in the world was created in London.

[Pierre Raniere]

So that was the English artworks.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Exactly. That was the name of it, which.

[Pierre Raniere]

Was one of the great workshops in.

[Pascal Le Peu]

London, a very important workshop. And we've also people sent from Paris and also, of course, new stuff coming from England. And with the idea that at the same time the style of creations and the craftsmanship had to be totally in line with the vision that was originally developed in Paris.

[Pierre Raniere]

And the show somehow shows the three Cartier brothers that vision. They had to actually, London was only one of the cities they set out to dominate.

[Pascal Le Peu]

That's true, because London was the first public abroad. And Pierre Cartier was sent in London in 1902. And when we created New York in 1909, Pierre moved to New York and Jacques, the younger brother, started to work with a company in London till his death in the early 40s.

[Pierre Raniere]

But you have a letter here, don't you, from Pierre Cartier?

[Pascal Le Peu]

I think Jacques is totally associated with our activity in London. He is the one who really promoted and developed the activity. And not only in London only, but as I said, but also, you know, in the entire British Empire, because he's the one also who went to India very, very early in the 1910s, being.

[Pierre Raniere]

Very closely associated with the British royal family. You have quite a selection of pieces that have loan from His Majesty the King.

[Pascal Le Peu]

This is a privilege and an honor, I think, to see in this exhibition so many pieces from the Royal Collection, of course, and many pieces that the public not necessarily knows. Some little objects, you know, there were gifts, for instance, with incredible craftsmanship, like hearthstone crafted, you know, in the shape of a Buddha. Or you have also exquisite objects made of animal, covered animal, made in the very, very beginning of the 20th century, for instance, at the side of much well known items like the Williamson diamond.

[Carole Houlton]

The Williamson pig was the highlight, I.

[Pierre Raniere]

Think, for me, I mean, to see it in the flesh like that, because obviously it's not something that most of us have seen. You see it in images. I mean, Queen Elizabeth wore it so often. It was one of her favorite pieces, wasn't it? And I think the great thing is.

[Carole Houlton]

That you have it with all the.

[Pierre Raniere]

Options that she could have chosen the other drawings when you set it for her.

[Pascal Le Peu]

And that's a very good thing because it happens. This exhibition is organized by the VA and it happens that the VA has an incredible collection of preparatory drawings from one of very important designers in our atelier, Frederic Meux. And that's how you can have a final drawing which is in our archives. And the preparatory drawings that has not been chosen, but part of the collection of the DNA. So it's a way also of looking at, let's say, the process of creation, you know, how Cartier can choose the design that will be actually made.

[Pierre Raniere]

And what do you think is the most special royal piece for you? Talking about these little objects?

[Pascal Le Peu]

I like very much the little Buddha with his moving hands, because it's very touching.

[Pierre Raniere]

And who was that made? Who owned that?

[Pascal Le Peu]

Oh, it was at the very beginning of the century or so.

[Pierre Raniere]

So handed down. Yes. I loved also the Princess Royal's pine tree aquamarine tiara.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Very, very nice. And it's the first time I see it actually, because it has never been exhibited like this. So it's a premiere.

[Pierre Raniere]

So, yes, to have these sort of things that we haven't seen before. And Pascal, that's part of your role as well is buying back old Cartier. And it looks from the exhibition you've been incredibly busy. I mean, I think the last major Exhibition was about 30 years ago at the British Museum. And when I looked around, I was with Julie Roodeau from the British Museum and she's, oh my God, I haven't seen that one and I haven't seen this one. So what you've acquired in the meantime is astonishing.

[Carole Woolton]

Yes, yes. Since 20 years, or more than 20 years from the exhibition at the British Museum, every year we are lucky to buy back different pieces for the Cartier collection. And always with this idea of being representative of all the history of Cartier. During the year we buy very important jewels so we can buy a very small one. And we are trying to, to recreate. It's like a big puzzle and jigsaw. And you say we try to find the missing pieces. So every Year we have a kind of divine surprises like the bird in cage recently found. So this was really a new one?

[Pierre Raniere]

Yes, a new one.

[Carole Woolton]

Emotional. We always wanted to have one.

[Pierre Raniere]

Will you explain what the bird in the cage is and its meaning?

[Carole Woolton]

The bird in the cage was created in 1942 by Jeanne Toussaint. We have to imagine that she was alone in Paris without Louis, Pierre and Jacques, and she dared to create a jewel that symbolized the French people under the Nazi occupation.

[Pierre Raniere]

And so the bird was enclosed.

[Carole Woolton]

Yes. And that was the symbol of Paris. Yes. And so. So this. So very, very few were made. And we were really. Yeah, it was really important for us to find one. Usually we display the. The design, but now we have the design and the object.

[Pierre Raniere]

That's so exciting, isn't it?

[Carole Woolton]

And recently we found a beautiful Egyptian necklace, but we didn't have time to include it.

[Pierre Raniere]

And so these come up at big auctions, not only. Or small auctions. I had a few people, not only.

[Carole Woolton]

Sorry, sorry to interrupt you, but from the. The art dealers, the trade, and also from private. I was talking about this necklace and two ladies came to. To us saying, this is our Christmas necklace. The mother. The necklace that our mother wore for Christmas. Do we call it a Christmas necklace? And now you have it.

[Pascal Le Peu]

I think it's a very good thing because now the existence of a collection is well known. And talking about private owners, they come to us because for them it's a way of, let's say, showing the cultural dimension of their pieces, you know, and they don't want them to be in the tray or they want them to be shared with the public through that kind of exhibition.

[Pierre Raniere]

Yes.

[Pascal Le Peu]

And it's very rewarding for them and we are very happy, of course, to please them that way.

[Pierre Raniere]

And then they can revisit their pieces at Christmas.

[Carole Houlton]

They can revisit it.

[Carole Woolton]

It's very, very important for the mom.

[Pierre Raniere]

How many pieces do you have in the Cartier collection?

[Carole Woolton]

We keep more than 3,500. Some are very important, some are smaller, as I mentioned, and it keeps going and it's. Yes.

[Pierre Raniere]

And how many are here in London.

[Carole Woolton]

At the moment from the Cartier collection? More than 80% or 85% of the jewels, objects and precious timepieces are from the Cartier collection. So it's more than 200 pieces from.

[Pierre Raniere]

The Cantier collection and then about 150 loaned.

[Carole Woolton]

Yes, but in this amount of loans and pieces are also archives, documents.

[Pierre Raniere]

Yes, because you have a lot of drawings in the show which are the.

[Carole Woolton]

Yes, the archives at Gartier. What you call archives are the other treasure.

[Pierre Raniere]

Well, I've been fortunate enough to have been in the archives of Pierre when I was writing a book about flowers, floral jewelry.

[Carole Woolton]

And this is so important. And thanks to the directors of Cartier, we also kept the archives. And these are really, really important for us to be able to certify that the item is in its original condition, that it hasn't been modified. So every time you look at an item and you see the date, when we write 1923, it's really because it was made in 1923 and we have all the papers and information to document it.

[Pierre Raniere]

Every single piece signed that Cartier created.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Yes, well, there are sign. It's. Well, we don't reveal everything about it because it's a way, of course, to authenticate them ourselves. So there are different ways of signing them, not necessarily with signature, but effectively we can read, identify them.

[Pierre Raniere]

So apart from the sort of royal stardust, there is quite a lot of glamour and Hollywood stardust as well in the show. I mean, you have the magnificent Maria Felix snake. So will you tell us a bit about the snake?

[Pascal Le Peu]

The snake is a special order that was made in 1960. In fact, we have to tell more about Maria Felix herself, because she married a French man, beginning of the 60s, and she moved to Paris from Mexico City. And immediately she understood, I think, how, let's say the cafe society, or it was the beginning also the jet society present in Paris was living. And she started to become a Panther client, you know, before anything. And progressively she moved to express, let's say, her own state, own, let's say, taste, through special orders. She ordered. She started to order her own Panther jewelry. And then finally, in 68, she wanted, you know, to express her, I would say, Mexicanity in a way. And she wanted an object that could be a necklace and a decoration for a dinner party, for instance. So it says a lot about the volume of necklace she wanted. It's huge. It's huge. But she told me once, because I had the chance to meet her in 1999, and she told me that she always loved big jewelry, but she was convinced that coming to Cartier she would get big jewelry, big de.

[Pierre Raniere]

Of good taste.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Of good taste. And she had a marvelous French, if she could speak marvelous French. And that necklace is a marvel, not only in terms of design but in terms of craftsmanship, because it's exquisitely articulated. And she was playing with it. I saw her playing with it like. Like a toy, you know, and without being afraid of breaking it it was something incredible. And in the position in which it's presented, actually here at the DNA is linked to her own wish, because I remember when we showed it the first time in Mexico City, she discovered how it was displayed. It was like sleeping on a cushion, you know, and she got mad at me. She got mad at me. She said, no, it's impossible. The snake should look like a mean animal. It should look like it's going to attack you.

[Pierre Raniere]

It does.

[Pascal Le Peu]

And that's why the display is at this ever since.

[Pierre Raniere]

It's like rising up.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Exactly. So we are very faithful to her desire to show the snake as it should be shown.

[Carole Houlton]

And then you have a lovely part.

[Pierre Raniere]

Where you have Grace Kelly's engagement ring and a necklace she wore. And then you have her in high society on the screen talking about Cartier, which is so great.

[Pascal Le Peu]

That's her last movie. So she was already engaged. She already received that Cartier engagement ring. And she wears it, of course, and it plays a role. The ring has a role in the movie because she's also engaged in the movie. And so it's very touching, very moving. But it's done also with a great sense of humor in the movie, by the way. And the ring is, of course, present. And we are very. Also privileged to have the V and a loan from the Prince of Monaco.

[Pierre Raniere]

Well, I thought also it was walking around. It's like Cartier's greatest hits. I mean, the tutti frutti, the Islamic inspiration, the turn of the century tiaras. It's like the Art deco. I mean, they are. Do you feel that, Pierre?

[Carole Woolton]

Do you feel that?

[Pascal Le Peu]

I think it's. I think this exhibition, probably, Pascal, I think you will agree, it's probably one of the best representation of two different creations of the 1920s and 30s.

[Carole Woolton]

Ah, yes, yes. It's the biggest and the most important group we've ever displayed. It's a unique opportunity. We will not see this again.

[Pierre Raniere]

All together again.

[Pascal Le Peu]

In fact, Carol, you talked about the Indian inspiration, but Cartier went further than the original inspiration from India, because India mixes carved stones like emerald and rubies. And Cartier had the idea to mix also blue sapphire to those compositions. And it's a kind of creation that started in 1925. And we never stopped to produce that kind of mix of stones and colors in many different ways, bracelets. And so that's why it's so important, because we have so many bracelets in this exhibition today. We would say in a very art deco design, because that exuberant mix of organic shapes is contained in very rigorous parallel lines in those bracelets. But also there is a very important necklace made in 1936, sixth of lazy fellows. And among all those pieces, there's a unique piece, which is a piece that belongs to the collection of a Vienna, which is the Bondo of Lady Mountbatten that she bought in 1928. And that bandeau can be also split into two bracelets. And it's totally unique. And it's part of a collection of a VNA because it has been considered like a national treasure. At the beginning, it was supposed to join the Cartier collection and it couldn't because, of course, the garden here says no, it should stay in the uk.

[Pierre Raniere]

Yes, it is. It's beautiful. Really, really beautiful. That's a stunning showcase. And the other thing that really I was very drawn to was the Egyptomania, the pieces that you made when Howard Carter discovered the tomb of Tutankhamunes scarabs. And I mean, those are sensational.

[Pascal Le Peu]

They are. I think, as you were saying, it's a unique collection. And they show also one specific aspect of Cartier creations. Because, of course, the discovery of a tombstone of Caval in 1922 created a kind of rage among creators who took their inspiration from the Egyptian designs. But Cartier had the particularity to use also authentic items, Egyptian items, to build a kind of object. It could be a piece of jewelry or a box or a clock or whatsoever with those original items. So it's very interesting. So that side by side you have pieces with, of course, totally new design inspired by Egypt or Egyptian art. And also pieces that include, let's say, a statuette or something like that.

[Carole Houlton]

Little.

[Pierre Raniere]

Figurine, which is just one of my favorite pieces.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Of course, they are more than charming because they add different layers. You have pieces created 3,000 years ago, and on top of that, you have the exquisite craftsmanship of 20th century.

[Pierre Raniere]

And they would have bought that from a private collection years ago that came out of Egypt.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Yes, yes. We have all the invoices, you know, those items. And effectively we mentioned Caleb Jean. We are very famous antique dealers in the Paris.

[Pierre Raniere]

Right, right. Yes. No, I loved that case. And then of course, the panther. I mean, it really is just everything that you think of with Cartier. And you've got the sort of the Duchess of Windsor collection, the flamingo, as well as the panthers, the lorgnettes that she looked through.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Tiger.

[Pierre Raniere]

That's a tiger. Yes. And the one I love is one of the more modern creations that. It's what I call the floppy panther. You know, he's so articulated, he's draped.

[Carole Woolton]

And this one is the first time you can see it in a Cartier exhibition. It's alone. So this panther, like the Golden Fleece, the shape of the Golden Fleece, is now in a private collection and they accepted to lend it for this exhibition. And this was made the same year that the brooch of the Duchess of Windsor, the one with the sapphire. And when they were displayed in the windows of King Paris in Rue de La Paix in 1949, one journalist compared that to an atomic explosion in the world of jewelry. It was so new. So, you know, at the time when women had less, right. They couldn't work without the authorization of their husband, they couldn't have a bank account. So to dare to create a jewel with such a symbolic of independence, power, it was really, really something completely new. And now, since then, it's really part of Cartier and it's the.

[Pierre Raniere]

And women still want it?

[Pascal Le Peu]

Yes, yes, very much.

[Pierre Raniere]

And I read that too. You're introducing a new collection around the panther for this exhibition.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Yes, we never stopped creating.

[Pierre Raniere]

It's just a new evolution because it's.

[Pascal Le Peu]

In Latabet, a theme of inspiration, as Pascal said, which is very symbolic, symbolic of dependence, elegance, daring, taste. Also in a way, and on a pure, let's say, aesthetical point of view, it's so rich because you can be totally figurative in a naturalistic way, in a stylized way, but also you could go to an extreme stylization that can lead to abstraction. And by the way, the representation of the panther started like that with, let's say, just. Yes, just the pattern of a fur and the black onyx spots on the diamond background. So it shows all the possibilities in terms of creation. That's why I say it's endless, both in terms of symbols, but also in terms of aesthetics.

[Pierre Raniere]

The other thing that struck me walking around was how important jewelry came through moments in the world that very disrupted, you know, the Russian Revolution. You have these sort of beautiful Russian inspired carved animals, Nazi occupation of Paris that you talked about, the songbird, the Second World War, the Wall street crash. And yet beautiful pieces were coming out. And I thought that was quite important for the times we're living in now.

[Pascal Le Peu]

I think it's one aspect of the exhibition which is very strong. It's unique to this exhibition. It's the result of the work of the curators. They wanted to question the aspect of the relevance of Cartier, how Cartier managed to be relevant at every single period. And it's shown at every stage of the exhibition. So the exhibition is not necessarily chronological, but that's an important part of the content of the exhibition. And there's also a section dedicated to communications also in this exhibition to, to show how Cartier took all the new tools of communication to express the difference of Cartier in terms of creation and invention. And I think that's really a big difference that this show represents among all the shows that have been organized so far.

[Pierre Raniere]

And it is important in moments when people feel that the world is disrupted, that they see beauty and they appreciate it. And, and so I think this show will be a great, great hit.

[Carole Woolton]

The purpose of the Castille collection is to share, to share with people because there are very, very few opportunities. You're lucky in London because you have.

[Pierre Raniere]

The gallery of the Mollinger Gallery here at the va.

[Carole Woolton]

So you have an important collection of jewels, but there are very few collections of jewels in museums in the world. So it's a very rare opportunity for people to, to see jewels that they, they would never see.

[Pierre Raniere]

I agree. And the sort of bygone age, the wonderful tiara room that was all this sensational, just twinkling diamonds everywhere. And I think that's sort of magical for anybody, I defy anybody not to be taken back and wish people still wore them.

[Pascal Le Peu]

And it was quite, let's say a challenge for the curators to decide which Terra would go with which, which one, you know, because how to. To manage, you know, the, the repartition of all those tiaras in each windows.

[Carole Woolton]

And you see the variety, variety of design. Sun ray to the. To tiff to the ha. And really the signature and also how.

[Pierre Raniere]

How they are presented, that you can see them in the round and that you can sort of walk right around and see them all. And they're almost just suspended.

[Carole Woolton]

Yes. And this is in this exhibition you have many opportunities to see the back of jewels.

[Pascal Le Peu]

And as you mentioned, so in the.

[Carole Woolton]

First showcase in the white room you see the back of the garland style items and in the tiara room you can see the.

[Pierre Raniere]

See that lace at the back as.

[Pascal Le Peu]

You say.

[Carole Woolton]

Sometimes when I have the question, how do you keep them? How do you maintain their fragile. Oh no, platinum or diamonds are not fragile. So they just. Only they need a little warm soap bath and just to, to become, to stay white and shiny. That's the beauty.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Soap and water.

[Pierre Raniere]

Well, I think people will be flying from around the world to come and see it.

[Carole Woolton]

Wonderful.

[Pascal Le Peu]

That would be great.

[Carole Woolton]

And yeah, it really brings joy when you're in front or you you were talking about the jeweled vanity cases, or. I just can imagine the pride of the craftsman, you know, showing this to.

[Helen Molesworth]

Louis Cartier.

[Carole Woolton]

The Chinese vanity case, and then imagine the lady taking this out of her purse. The conversation probably stopped, or it was.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Quite a departure for a new conversation.

[Carole Woolton]

Yes.

[Pierre Raniere]

And what do you think that Louis Cartier would have thought all these years later? That it's here and dominating London again?

[Pascal Le Peu]

Oh, what we have to think about is how visionary Louis Cartier was, because he always declared that Cartier had to evolve on a permanent basis. So that's how our heritage is a living heritage, in a way, because to be faithful to his ideas is to continue to explore, in fact, because that was his will. So I think he would be very proud, I think, and happy to see everything that happened after him. You know, when he named Jean Toussaint to be his successor, it was a bet, you know, but he thought. And he wrote about it to his brothers, he thought she was capable, he said, capable to foresee, to imagine the future of Cartier in new times. And in fact, she stayed 40 more years after he left. And effectively she developed Cartier in many different ways. So I think that's a dimension which is very, very important. It's that idea to. To embrace the future and to see the principle of evolving like a very positive engine in our work. You know, there's a kind of, let's say, curiosity towards the future and pleasure also to be in front of challenges.

[Pierre Raniere]

And as things change.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Exactly.

[Pierre Raniere]

The way people live and fashions and coffee remains relevant.

[Pascal Le Peu]

And I think that's a very strong perception you have at the end of the exhibition. I think it's part, I think, of the main, let's say, quality of this exhibition to perceive that at permanent evolution.

[Carole Woolton]

Yes, you have sort of. You have sexual cases in which you can see 100 years of creation. For example, for the panther, we start with the first one made in 1914, and the last jewel in the showcase dates from 2014. So you have 100 years. And same for the watches also, which are also very important in Catholic history. When you imagine that, when you realize that when they were creating the garland style, the tiaras, Louis Cartier had the santos displayed. And so this is the only maison like that to have such a variety. And it shows the modernity of the modernity with platinum, the modernity was the wristwatches.

[Pascal Le Peu]

I think that's also what shows that exhibition is at the same time, the permanent exploration of new aesthetics. That's the idea, I think. And what Cartier can provide is new ideas in terms of aesthetics in the world of jewelry and precious objects. But at the same time, as Pascal said, the curiosity towards people and how they live and how precise objects can have a role in their life. And it's very interesting because that's a way to explain how Cartier evolved also in its equation. On the one hand, you have that, let's say, preoccupation to explore new aesthetics, but on the other hand, to be sure that our objects will be part of the life of our clients.

[Pierre Raniere]

At finally, I wanted to know, we concentrated on the jewellery. But of course, they're wonderful watches, objets necessaire. Really beautiful, exquisite jewelled objects for both of you. If somebody's coming to the exhibition, what piece do you think is definitive Cartier to you?

[Carole Woolton]

Shall I start?

[Helen Molesworth]

Yes.

[Pierre Raniere]

Ladies first.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Time to think.

[Carole Woolton]

For me, I have to say, I have a. I don't. How do you say. How do you say that in English? A penchant for mystery clocks. So they really encapsulate the magic of Cartier and, you know. Yeah, I'm lucky to sometimes see one functioning and I could spend the whole day looking at one. It's like you dive into time and the one you see in the exhibition are really so precious. They are really jewels. And jewels that you have in your bedroom, they are really intimate. Not for the show. They are. And really. Yeah. Super precious, from the hands to the old frame.

[Pierre Raniere]

And the mystery clocks are the ones that you see no workings. It's like magic.

[Carole Woolton]

Exactly, exactly. And it's a rare opportunity to see 15 of them. No, 11. Sorry, 11 of them in this exhibition. Are you Pierre?

[Pierre Raniere]

Pierre.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Very difficult, of course, because. Because so many, again, insist on that world exploration of shapes, you know, forms are present at Cartier, probably. I would choose a Tutti Frutti bracelet for many different reasons. Because it shows the craftsmanship, because Tutti Frutti, maybe people are impressed by the mix of colors, but they don't realize, probably, the. The craftsmanship. And the best way to appreciate the craftsmanship is to look at the Tutti Frutti composition from the back, because the platinum lace, I would say, that is present behind is just incredible because it has to be totally flexible, it has to be articulated. So despite the impression of, let's say, abundance of stones and color, you have a very dedicated object around your wrist. And also in terms of pure aesthetics, the mix of an organic composition, because all those terms are carved in the shapes of leaves or fruits. We have as a structure what we call a tree of life, which is made of platinum and diamond and everything in a very rigorous structure, those parallel lines. So it's a mix of, you know, influence of different cultures leading to something totally new. So at the same time, you have, you know, an inspiration that comes from the past, from abroad, and you create from all those elements something that is a point of departure of new creations for the future. So I think this is very nice for you, Pierre.

[Pierre Raniere]

Thank you very much. And thank you, Pascal and Pierre, for sharing this on your really busy day when you are unveiling this to the world. And if Jules could talk, I'm very happy to say, is number one, we're early. We're here first, so thank you so much.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Thank you, Carol. Thank you.

[Carole Woolton]

Thank you very much.

[Pascal Le Peu]

Thank you very much.

[Carole Houlton]

And I'm now sitting with Helen Molesworth, who is the senior curator of jewellery at the Victoria and Albert Museum and the lead curator of Cartier. Helen, thank you very much for coming to talk with us.

[Helen Molesworth]

It was a total delight to join you.

[Carole Houlton]

Carol and I want to know how you started thinking about this exhibition. You've got 350 pieces throughout the Sainsbury.

[Pierre Raniere]

Wing at the V and A.

[Carole Houlton]

This is a massive exhibition. How do you start. Where do you start thinking about the vision for the exhibition?

[Helen Molesworth]

That's a really good question. Because when I was lucky enough to be told we could do a Cartier exhibition, that's exactly the first thing that went through my head. Where do you start with such a fabulous name, with such a huge history? And I'm going to tell you something. The first thing that came into my mind was that I wanted there to be a bit of everything for everyone. So a way in which we could somehow make sure we had all the great highlights of Cartier. But also I realized straight away that no matter how we did it, I wanted the last room to be a room of tiaras, because I realized that that was the pinnacle of the jeweller's art. So by having this finale of great tiaras, they kind of sum up that artistic vision and journey of Cartier from 1900 all the way up to the present day. And then we developed this wonderful narrative that really focused on sort of three key elements. So the. The exhibition is broken into these three sections. And that's how we started is how do we make sure we cover a bit of everything for everyone? So we didn't come up with a sub name. It's just Cartier.

[Pierre Raniere]

I noticed that it's the Powerhouse.

[Helen Molesworth]

The Powerhouse.

[Carole Houlton]

No explanation necessary.

[Helen Molesworth]

No explanation necessary. And it gives us no limitations. But the VA and Cartier have one major belief system together in common, and that is about creativity and design. And, of course, that's so important for Cartier success. So our first section of the narrative is really about creativity. The inspirations behind those early designs, from the 1900s with the Garland style all the way into the Art Deco, what makes that Cartier style, The journey of the Panther developing through time and then craftsmanship, looking at how those jewels are made and a section that also looks at the materials, so the gemstone and how those jewels have been physically made and crafted over the years. And then the final third of the exhibition is looking at legacy and Cartier updating with the times, how they're constantly innovating and reinventing. So we see this wonderful theme in Cartier where they're always ahead of the time but never fall out of fashion. Well, it meant we could use highlights like, hopefully, pieces from the Royal Collection. We got to show Grace Kelly's engagement ring as part of the celebrity section. You see the Duchess of Windsor's jewels that lead us into the Panther, their great relationships with the Maharajahs and Jacques Cartier, and all those early inspirations where you see Egypt and India and China being part of the formative design of the 1910s and 20s.

[Carole Houlton]

I loved what the designer said. Asif Khan, who was the exhibition designer, the way the pieces are displayed. He said he wanted to allow history to breathe. And I think that was such a lovely thing to say.

[Helen Molesworth]

I think we've been very lucky when we see the exhibition now in real life, that he's created a beautiful canvas on which the jewels really show themselves. So we've got these wonderful settings and some very exceptional elements of design. But the jewels and the objects are the stars of the show. And I think that's a successful jewellery show and you've got such beautiful objects, you don't want to overpower them too much. And it's been very elegantly done.

[Carole Houlton]

And there's so much to take in. And having seen it last night and then seen it again today, I'm noticing new things. And when I walked in just earlier, I could hear the voice was that Pierre Cartier.

[Helen Molesworth]

So this is something that actually working with the designers, we came up with this idea. One of the stories we really wanted to start with was the story of the three brothers. So Cartier was founded in 1847, but it was actually with the story of the grandsons of the founder, the three brothers, Louis, Pierre and Jacques, that we wanted to tell the beginning of really the creativity, but also the direction and vision of Cartier. Because what those three brothers did, they were very close together, they had a really strong family bond, which. Which we've seen in letters written between them, but they also had a vision for the business, for the company strategy. And what we've done at the entrance of the exhibition is we have excerpts of letters written between the three brothers and their father Alfred, being read over the entrance to the exhibition. And there's one really lovely letter where Pierre, who's the second, writes to Jacques, who's the youngest brother, and he says, I know you're the youngest, but we need you. You can't think that you're going to step back from the family, family business. You're part of the trinity. And he also talks about how they have a strategy and a vision to almost create a global business, which, if you think in 1915, it's so ahead of its time and they've succeeded because look where we are today. I think they'd be so proud to think that there'd be an exhibition of their works at the VA today. Could you imagine?

[Carole Houlton]

Well, they might have almost expected it because they did have this, you know, this sort of vision of themselves that seemed to not question where they were going.

[Helen Molesworth]

Love it.

[Carole Houlton]

And some of the words Pierre wrote was with the deep affection that unites us, combined with our various talents, God willing, our house will be unbeatable.

[Helen Molesworth]

Isn't that wonderful? I mean, talk about strategy and vision.

[Carole Houlton]

And planning and it sort of is.

[Helen Molesworth]

It is, but it's how we. I think of that as a modern business approach. You do think of people sort of talking about their businesses today and how they will have business plans. I don't think of that as being a 1900s way of approaching strategizing it.

[Carole Houlton]

And splitting up business markets.

[Helen Molesworth]

Exactly.

[Carole Houlton]

And who will chase the maharajahs? Who will chase the rich women of Fifth Avenue?

[Helen Molesworth]

It's genius.

[Carole Houlton]

I mean, incredible.

[Helen Molesworth]

And their personalities work so well together. You know, you've got Louis as the creative director, who clearly loved the design and was behind a lot of that. Pierre, who goes off to New York and becomes the business strategy, the great deal maker. And then Jacques, the youngest, who has taken over his father's footsteps, is really the gemologist and the gem specialist. He goes to London where he meets the Maharaj. He's got treasury stuff full of gemstones. I don't know if it could have worked out better.

[Carole Houlton]

In a way, I think it exemplifies what's so important in the jewellery Industry in every level is trust.

[Helen Molesworth]

Oh, I love that.

[Carole Houlton]

It has to be trust. And I think between the brothers there was such unquote questionable trust.

[Helen Molesworth]

That is right.

[Carole Houlton]

That they were able to do that.

[Helen Molesworth]

I think that's it. It's that unbreakable family bond which lays a foundation to a potential business, which is what they capitalized on. You're dead right.

[Carole Houlton]

So you've got some. A lovely selection from the Cartier archives. You've got a fantastic loan from His Majesty and of course, you have other lenders. So how did you track down which jewels you wanted to borrow?

[Helen Molesworth]

So we've been very lucky because we've been supported very strongly by the Cartier collection. So we've got jewels from there and objects from there. We've obviously got jewels from our own collection at the VA, like the wonderful Manchester Tiara, which was made in 1903 and looks as large as a crown. And collections from other museums and private collections all around the world. Obviously, the Royal collection being very special for us, really part of it, it was looking for highlight objects that exemplified areas of our narrative. So telling one area, a great example is telling that story of how the client and the jeweller works together, which we tell in the section that's all about the royal family and the maharajahs. And we have a focus on the Duchess of Windsor working closely with Cartier. And in this section, we obviously borrowed pieces from the royal family, from the royal collection. We have private loans, such as the Maharani of Baroda pearl bracelet, for which we have the original drawings in the MEW archive in the va. So we've got five or six different drawings of this pearl bracelet.

[Carole Houlton]

So you can link things, link it.

[Helen Molesworth]

And then you see that relationship between the designer and the jewel being made, but also that client clearly approving or choosing one of those jewel options. So that was a private loan from that. From that example, we have different private loans coming into the Duchess of Windsor pieces, because, of course, that was sold in 1987. And then again, pieces came back onto the market. The Maharaj Baroda. I was really pleased because I was looking through the drawings from the MEW archive while we were researching other pieces. And as I was flicking through the photographs that I had of the collection, I realised I recognised one of the bracelets in the drawing. And that's when I realized that it was a bracelet I'd previously seen several years earlier. And we, with the help of Cartier, tracked down how to find it so we could exhibit it together.

[Carole Houlton]

How amazing. Yeah, that's another Thing in jewellery, you have to have a visual memory, don't you, to remember things that you've seen and where they are.

[Helen Molesworth]

I think I've got a photographic memory for stones and jewels, probably better than people. I worry sometimes that it's, well, you're.

[Carole Houlton]

In the right job.

[Helen Molesworth]

And what's been lovely is seeing pieces that have come back that I remember from 10, 20 years ago. So it's almost like old friends coming back in. And that's how, in a way, it's been really lovely to curate this because I've been able to select those pieces and there have been jewels that I've been able to chase that I really was hoping we'd get. One is the Olnat diamond, the hundred carat vivid yellow cushion that was mounted by Cartier in 1953, so the same year as the Williamson brooch, very much in that Frederick new style. And that had been known a few years ago recently. So I was able to say, could we have it for the exhibition? And of course, you know, when it's the VA and Cartier, people are very amenable. We've had some very kind loans and we'd be very grateful for that.

[Carole Houlton]

Well, it's very nice for their jewels. It gives a provenance, a very important academic provenance to their jewel and they.

[Helen Molesworth]

Continue living a history. I always think provenance, a nice way of history continuing. So you're looking back and forwards at the same time, but quite daunting.

[Carole Houlton]

Helen, when did you. You joined the V and A? Not that long before this was obviously set in motion.

[Helen Molesworth]

It's about three years or so. I've been at the va, maybe just over. So that was roughly when Cartier started.

[Carole Houlton]

So your first big exhibition under your tenure.

[Helen Molesworth]

I know, aren't I lucky?

[Carole Houlton]

Doesn't look much better, does it? So, and I believe you're the first person in your role at the Vietnam who is a gemmologist, a qualified gemologist.

[Helen Molesworth]

I think that's also true. So the jewellery history and the gemology together, I've got this slight obsession that you've got to mix science and stories and that you have to understand the material so that you can understand the design and the people. And once you bring that together, that's where all the interesting information starts to come out.

[Carole Houlton]

And that was important for you, that you had a focus on the stones in this exhibition?

[Helen Molesworth]

I think so. You know, we often have looked at Cartier historically as this great design house, which is so true design craftsmanship, but you can't look at craftsmanship without looking at the materials. And as a gemologist, of course, I love these stones that are so special. I've been to many of the mines where they have come from. So I visited the Sri Lankan mines where the sapphires come from, the Colombian mines, where the emeralds come from. But if you understand the materials and you can really appreciate the gemstones when they are really beautiful quality, you can understand that when the big, fabulous, great stones come to a jeweler like Cartier, it's a sign of how great that jeweler is, because not only have they got access to the best stones through their relationships with dealers, but with clients. We see a lot of big stones coming back to Cartier because those clients want them mounted up. But then you see Cartier sourcing the big stuff. And it's this sort of virtuous circle of the relationship with the client, the relationship with the jeweller, and the access to the materials. And I also find them a wonderful way of telling the social history of the period and trade. Jacques Cartier went to India and Sri Lanka to look for Sapphires in 1911. Now I can go to Sri Lanka in 2011 because we have our airplanes and it's easy to travel, and I'm lucky to have that access because we are a globalized community today in our industry. But when you think about what that means a hundred years ago, these are adventurers and these are people who are setting out to really build something special because they're going out of their way to look for inaccessible things, special objects.

[Carole Houlton]

Well, of course, during the Belle Epoque, when everybody wanted natural pearls, Jacques went to the Gulf, he went to Bahrain, and I was there in November. And I can tell you that it's still important that he visited all these years later.

[Carole Woolton]

Yes.

[Helen Molesworth]

And he used images from that one day pearling trip where he. They carried on using those images in the showrooms 10, 20, 30 years later at Cartier. And it's important to the Gulf, it's important to them. And it was really him exploring. And there was a lovely letter we found where he said, if I'm to understand correctly, my mission is to find as many pearls as possible.

[Carole Houlton]

It was literally, he wanted access, direct access to the finest and the best natural pearls.

[Helen Molesworth]

And I don't think he found that. If we're honest about it, he didn't find that many. They went on a pearling trip.

[Carole Houlton]

Nature doesn't throw up these things at whim, but that's the whole point.

[Helen Molesworth]

So in a way, what some might say, the lack of success of that day out on the pearling trip actually completely proves the point that these are really rare, rare gems.

[Carole Houlton]

The boats would go out for three or four months at a time.

[Helen Molesworth]

Yeah.

[Carole Houlton]

Not just a few hours.

[Helen Molesworth]

Absolutely.

[Carole Houlton]

To get their haul.

[Helen Molesworth]

They're probably one of the rarest materials in the world, natural pearls. And Cartier knew that then and we are understanding it again today.

[Carole Houlton]

What do you think? Which piece do you think sums up Cartier to you in the exhibition?

[Helen Molesworth]

I think that has to be the Williamson diamond brooch, which was made for our late Queen in 1953 by Cartier, London. But the actual brooch is set in the centre with the 23.6 carat bright pink, brilliant cut diamond in this wonderful flower, petals open, working diamonds with a stem. And the diamond itself was given to the Queen in 1947 for her engagement as a wedding present. She had it cut in London and then mounted the year of her coronation. So this, for me, not only have we got a wonderful stone, we've got a jewel that was made for one of the most famous people in the world, the Royal family. The Queen, who we know loved jewels and wore them so cleverly, brooches. And it's a spectacular piece. It's the size of the palm of your hand.

[Carole Houlton]

It's huge. I had no idea from seeing her wear it so frequently in images how.

[Helen Molesworth]

Big it was exactly. I think I was stubborn too, when we finally got to see it. And it also we've got this lovely V and a story with that jewel being made with the drawings that were designed by the Frederick by Frederic Mew in the archive. But that for me is quintessentially Cartier because we've got great relationship between Cartier and the Royal family. We've got the best materials which came to Cartier because of who they were. And when I look at that jewel with the very beautiful open work diamond petals and that little scrolling baguette set stem, it screams 50s Cartier to me. It's glamour. The design is just so perfect. Yet of the 10 designs we've got in our archive, everyone would have worked. They were all great. But I think the Williamson, for me, that sums up Cartier relationships, quality, design, beauty and elegance.

[Carole Houlton]

It is the showstopper.

[Helen Molesworth]

I just love it. I'm in love with this jewel. If you can't tell already.

[Carole Houlton]

Does it make you want to add more Cartier to the Bollinger collection in the V and A?

[Helen Molesworth]

I think we are always open to expanding the jewellery collection at the va and we have this beautiful Bollinger Gallery, where we can showcase some of the most beautiful jewels in the public view. I think I would always love to have more Cartier in that collection, always. But we have the Manchester tiara and.

[Carole Houlton]

You'Ve got the Bandeau, the Tutti Frou.

[Helen Molesworth]

We are very lucky again for thanks to the Bollinger family, we've got the Mountbatten bandeau from the 1920s, all in these wonderful carved gemstones. We've got the Komnen tiara, which was made for a wedding for Alexandra comnen in the 1910s with synthetic rubies, very unusually were brought to Cartier and they had to use them for the mounting. But when we look at Cartier, there are so many different styles throughout history that we would always want to be able to showcase as much of that as possible. So anybody wanting to give us Cartier for the collection, let me know.

[Carole Houlton]

Bequeath. Thank you. How often are you hoping to have big jewellery exhibitions?

[Helen Molesworth]

When I look at this exhibition, we have produced it in a three year window, as you've said. This was the beginning of my tenure at the va. I thought that was a long time. It's a very short period of time when you put on such a massive blockbuster because there's such so much to work around in creating this. I think if we do wanting in the next five years, the next three to five years, I'd be delighted. And we're always working on new things, so there are new things in the pipeline coming up, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[Carole Houlton]

You can't say, oh, I think at.

[Helen Molesworth]

The moment we have to enjoy Cartier. Yes. And this is on till November.

[Carole Houlton]

November.

[Pierre Raniere]

So people have a chance to book their tickets now.

[Helen Molesworth]

They do, but tickets they must because we've already sold out an order. Lot of tickets. Do book in advance. You can do that through the VA website. And I think also I'm really hoping for those people who love jewellery, like your listeners on your podcast, there's multiple reasons to come back. I know that I wouldn't be happy with just one visit. There's so much to see. So come back and see us multiple times.

[Carole Houlton]

Yes, I've done three already and this is pre opening.

[Pierre Raniere]

I love it.

[Carole Houlton]

Yeah, definitely. And I'll be back. And if people become members of the V and A, it's much easier for them to come in and visit.

[Helen Molesworth]

Absolutely. So members actually get free entry into the exhibition and we have seen that people have joined specifically for the Cartier exhibition in quite large numbers. So we're really delighted to see that.

[Carole Houlton]

And if people want to hear more about your thoughts on precious stones, they should have a look at your book.

[Helen Molesworth]

Precious. Yes, my book Precious, which is the history and mystery of gems across time that I brought out with Penguin last year.

[Carole Houlton]

Well, we can't wait to see what's.

[Helen Molesworth]

Next with you, but it is worth mentioning that while Cartier is on and you have to book your tickets in advance, we've also got the beautiful Bollinger Gallery with our actually in situ jewellery exhibition that's always on display, open to the public for free. So if you come to Cartier, come and see the jewellery gallery at the same time. Thank you.

[Carole Houlton]

And thank you very much for sharing it with us.

[Helen Molesworth]

Helen Carol, I love talking to you.

[Carole Houlton]

And to be able to discuss something.

[Helen Molesworth]

We both love this much. Isn't it a total dream?

[Carole Houlton]

It's a total dream.

[Pierre Raniere]

It's.

[Carole Houlton]

I'll just move into the V and A for the next few months, folks.

[Pierre Raniere]

I hope to see lots of you.

[Helen Molesworth]

Thank you.

[Carole Houlton]

Thank you so much for listening. For this and other episodes of if Jules Could Talk, please please go to our website, www.carolwalton.com. do share the podcast any way you can if you've enjoyed it and if you have the time, we love to have a rating and a comment. So thank you. Join me again in two weeks for the next jeweled nugget. And a nugget it certainly is. As the gold price reaches a record high, I thought we'd talk about the human obsession with gold. So join me then and thank you for listening. Bye Bye. If Jules Could Talk with Carol Walton is produced by Natasha Cowan Music and editing by Tim Thornton Graphics by Scott Bentley Illustration by Jordi Labander.

[Pierre Raniere]

SA.