← If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton
If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton
ELIE TOP TALKS FASHION, JEWELS, YVES SAINT LAURENT AND ALBER ELBAZ
00:56:35
Loading summary
Transcript255 lines
- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit shopify.com to upgrade your selling today. This episode is brought to you by Fuli Gemstones.
- [00:33]
B
It was not easy to speak my own voice. I had worked for so many different, very strong designers before that I didn't really know what was my personal part, what was the part of the company I was working for. So it took me two or three years to find the way I wanted to do it. It was not easy.
- [00:56]
A
I'm Carole Houlton, the voice of jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realise they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewellery culture and investigate what's happening now. Yes, I'm in Paris and I am in the super chic, quintessentially Parisian surroundings with Ellie Top. Thank you for hosting us.
- [01:50]
B
Thank you, Carol. It's nice to talk to you.
- [01:54]
A
And this is the most beautiful, beautiful building with the fabulous mouldings, a sort of classic 18th century townhouse in Paris. Elie.
- [02:03]
B
Yeah, totally. It's very classic, very classic.
- [02:08]
A
And you come in, it's one of these hidden doors, so you have to know where you're going. It's one of the doors that when you're walking through Paris, you want to know what's behind because it looks so romantic and it is. The doors open, you're in this fabulous courtyard full of green, sort of stone steps leading up to Ellis.
- [02:29]
B
That's exactly what I was looking for. So I'm very happy to be here because it's intimate, it's hidden and it's very close to the Place Vendome. It's really like centered, but I really wanted it as a secret and a little place. It's quite tiny. I wanted small rooms and to make this feeling like of real luxury.
- [02:51]
A
For me, it's real luxury, but there's forms like, this is the most beautiful. You can see that. I'll take an image of it you can see the fireplace is slightly off center. You can see how old it is. But you pack people in for intimate dinners and it's always very glamorous. All the chic Parisian women, this is where they come. So we are having a little look. I want to get to the bottom of you, Ellie. The quote in Estelle, she's a great friend of yours, the marvellous designer mused. Karl Lagerfeld model. And she said she compares you to Karl Lagerfeld because of your knowledge of culture and the history of fashion and costume and jewellery. Marissa Berenson, another close friend, told the New York Times he his jewelry is modern, but at the same time has a baroque quality. So they look like they could be from another century. And this is the thing. You surround yourself with old cultured beauty, but you use it to create something contemporary and modern and new.
- [03:58]
B
I'm very grateful to my friends because I think in this. Exaggerate a little bit. I don't have yet the cultural level of Kalagafel, but there is a sentence used to quote all the time from Gert, which I really want to make mine, that you have to. With the. The element of the past. And you. You have to use the element of the past to create the future anyway, to make a better future. So.
- [04:27]
A
So looking back.
- [04:29]
B
No, it's not only looking back. You have to know. If you don't know your past, you cannot create your future and you cannot understand the present. So this is. I'm very a school boy, you know, I study a lot. I was very passionate by history, by geography, by a lot of things. And I know that I have to know as much things as possible to do something a bit meaningful. So it's just about that. And if you don't know anything, you won't go very far. I think maybe your intuition at the beginning, but then you need food also. You need food. You get inspired by many things, by things, by the present, by the past. And you have to shake it and to make it yours and to create something new out of it. That's what I really believe. Christian Lacroix was a bit like that too. He gave me some very good advice.
- [05:22]
A
What was that?
- [05:23]
B
That was that you have to learn as much as possible. You have to digest and you have to give back in a new way. That was the thing.
- [05:34]
A
Because there are not many designers that get compared to their work, as compared to sort of Middle Ages and punk rock.
- [05:42]
B
This. I don't know where it came from.
- [05:46]
A
They're not obvious things to go together.
- [05:48]
B
No I try to put many things together. That's true. That was the beginning when I started, because I'm attracted by some very opposite aesthetic. I would say some, sometimes not many times. I've been like, really, really much more into, like, 30s radical aesthetic. Like when they really cleaned everything, Especially in jewelry, we are talking about Jean Despre. When I discovered those designers, I was maybe 20. Honestly, I didn't know that before.
- [06:26]
A
Modernist.
- [06:27]
B
The real modernist. The modernist, in a real sense, they really get r rid of everything before you add, like something really much more decorative or you add like, Lalique. Very symbolic, poetic and thing. And they went as for furniture, as for interior design, as for architecture, jewelry followed the same path. And they went like, super geometrical, influenced by industry, by the. This idea they had about the modernity and the future and the things like that. When I discovered that it was a real big thing for me, you know, I was like, whoa, so this can be possible. It's really something totally radical with such a creative integrity. And they were not talking about stones, they were not talking about money. It was really something about pure design. It was super interesting. And so I'm. I've been very, very influenced by that. But in the same time, I'm also very fond of Lalique, or very fond of 18th century. And I love, like, decorative and flourishing thing and baroque and all medieval things. So when I started, I was like, so what I would love to do is try to put all my influences together in the same piece of jewelry. That's how it started.
- [07:49]
A
So I guess what they have in common is they're very strong. They have a strong idea and a strong point of view, whichever aesthetic you're looking at.
- [07:57]
B
Yeah. Maybe never lying, but where did you start?
- [08:01]
A
Was there anything in your upbringing? I mean, you were brought up in the northern French countryside. Was there anything in your upbringing that led you to fashion and jewelry?
- [08:11]
B
In my childhood, yes. Yes. My aunt. Not really my parents, to be honest. I remember a sentence my father told me because they were my parents, they were more like Epilac. So they wanted to be like, super. But it influenced me also in another way. Like hippie.
- [08:29]
A
Oh, hippie. They were hippie.
- [08:31]
B
No, they wanted to, but it was a bit strange because we were very properly educated. And in the same time, we were allowed to paint on the walls. Okay, you see? So it was like we were like, bonjour, madame. Bonjour, monsieur. And then we could be bare food and do a bit like kind of boho. Yeah. But they really didn't care about fashion. At all. It was even not very well seen, you know, just something like that, superficial and stupid. But then my father told me, when I told him I want to work in fashion, he was like, well, okay, it's better that than to work on the atomic bomb. So, okay, you can do that.
- [09:15]
A
It was just one up from working on an.
- [09:18]
B
But his sister, my horns I'm still very close to, was very, very fond of fashion. So I suppose I've been very impressed and influenced by her at the beginning.
- [09:30]
A
What. Who did she wear? Did she wear designers?
- [09:32]
B
Yeah, she was wearing designers. And she was very disciplined. She could have been like a very couture client in the old way, like uptown lady, you know. But it was in this small village, which was very eccentric because she was always, like, absolutely impeccable, perfect. But wearing at this time, it was late 80s, she was maybe in Thierry Mugler suits with high, very, very high heels and big earrings, clips and big cuffs and things like that. And every day was a new story.
- [10:06]
A
She was dressing for who?
- [10:09]
B
For herself.
- [10:09]
A
To buy the croissant.
- [10:11]
B
Yeah, exactly. But really for herself. Obsessed.
- [10:16]
A
She was obsessed.
- [10:17]
B
Yeah. And that's how also I started to. To discover the fashion magazine, because at this period, it was the only way to got some information and fashion. So we were reading Vogue, Luffy, and many more that maybe disappeared. Even, like, French, like Jardin des Mod and Joyce and all those. Depeche Mode. There were a lot of magazines in this period, Marie Claire. And so I was, like, eating all.
- [10:45]
A
Of that and traveling to see things. Were you traveling with your family?
- [10:53]
B
I started to travel with her when I was very young. Yeah. She took me to Italy in a classic way. I went to Rome when I was nine. I started the Grand Tour at nine. We went to Rome and then we went to Venice, to Florence, all this type of thing. Because before in being interested by fashion, I was really much more interested by architecture. So I was just sketching and drawing castles, churches, cathedrals. It was all my obsession. So I was quite good. As I was very fond of history, I was very into that. So I wanted to see all the castle and churches it was possible to visit. That's what I wanted to do. So you can imagine when you go to Rome, when you go to Venice, you have a lot of things to see. So that was really, really my first passion.
- [11:48]
A
So your aunt was encouraging you into a very sort of cultured way, and was she pushing, thinking it was a good idea for you to go into fashion?
- [11:56]
B
Well, no one really questioned it.
- [11:58]
A
No one did. And Your father went along with it. So was the sister. Was your aunt your father's sister?
- [12:05]
B
Yes.
- [12:05]
A
So they were very different.
- [12:07]
B
Oh, she is like totally, totally different planet. And then we were coming to Paris also of course, because she wanted to make some shopping. So I was coming with her. I was very happy.
- [12:21]
A
Where did she go to the shop?
- [12:23]
B
Well, we used to go to St. Laurent Rivko shops to maybe some shops in the Rue Saint Honore. Gabriela Fayette also at this period. This goes megazon like that next mega stores.
- [12:35]
A
And then. So how did you start your fashion career?
- [12:39]
B
So then actually, so I. I started to design fashion when I was 11 and to be very interested in that. So I quit a little bit. My castles and churches, I started that. So I was sketching a lot and learning a lot. And. And then I decided to do the. Which is very close to here. It was at this moment. And I came to Paris for that when I was 17, after my. How do you say? Graduation.
- [13:12]
A
Yeah.
- [13:13]
B
And I stayed there for three years. And during that time with the good thing of that school that we were doing a lot of internship. So that was very, very interesting for us. And so I went to Christian Dior a lot for. During those years with Johan Coferre when he was doing Christian Dior. Then I went for two months at Christian Lacroix for the haute couture. And just after I entered as an intern at Yves Salon. And that's how I started.
- [13:48]
A
And that's where your life changed?
- [13:50]
B
Yes, exactly. Because they. They proposed me to stay. So I even didn't really finish the school, find a job.
- [13:57]
A
What did you do in your internship that made them want you and realize that you had a role there?
- [14:03]
B
Sketching.
- [14:04]
A
It was sketching.
- [14:05]
B
Yeah.
- [14:05]
A
And your ideas?
- [14:07]
B
No, not at all. I was a good illustrator because they wanted it changed so much. It's so exotic now just to think that we were supposed to re sketch everything. It was not photographs. So all the passementerie jewelry, all the bags and really in detail. So we had the bag in front of us and we were supposed to redo it. We had the jewelry in front of us and we were supposed to re sketch it.
- [14:36]
A
Passementerie is all the accessories, you know.
- [14:39]
B
With all the threads. And Lulu was doing all those handbags and belts with all those tassels. They were made. We had to re sketch it.
- [14:49]
A
So.
- [14:49]
B
So that was one of the job for the archives and even for the books for the showrooms and things. Maybe they liked me, I don't know. You know, they were A bit like having type of, I would say, crush on people. And that's the way they were functioning. They were like hiring people just because they like them for certain things. So sometimes it was really eccentric, we would say now, but maybe they had a good instinct because they were not really questioning you or whatever.
- [15:24]
A
What were you wearing for your intern? Were you dressed?
- [15:28]
B
I was super classic. I always been. But I knew, because I had been warned that I had to be very classic to be there. Because M. Saint Laurent, it was a bit dm, to be honest. But they really wanted people not to make any waves, you know, so it was. You just had to add a jacket, shirts and things. But I was already like that. So to me, it was really super easy. Maybe they were looking for someone to. I was general assistant, you know, So I was also taking care of the fabrics. I was like sketching a little bit. I was doing. Working also as an assistant to Jean Paul. Not. He was one of the assistant of Mr. St. Laurent. And I was working on children licenses, you know, I was doing many, many different things.
- [16:16]
A
So you learned all kinds of different aspects.
- [16:19]
B
But also I had the privilege to be in the studio, which is. We don't realize really what it was, but the studio, as you can see in the foundation now the museum, that was that room where he was with everyone. So it was the working room to make fittings, to make. Everyone was there but the studio. It was 10 people, but it was really like the O lamp, you know, if you were. If you were not working there, you were not allowed to enter into the room.
- [16:51]
A
Well, you had to knock.
- [16:53]
B
You had lights. No, you cannot knock even. You have to call someone who is coming out of the room and talking to you. It was like a church. Everyone was like.
- [17:05]
A
And you were allowed in there.
- [17:06]
B
So I was allowed to be in there.
- [17:09]
A
So then in a sanctum.
- [17:11]
B
Yeah, exactly. He was there. Madame Munoz was there. She was the studio director. I was there. I was very impressed. I was not really scared. Very impressed.
- [17:22]
A
How old was Yves St. Laurent at that point?
- [17:25]
B
60 maybe.
- [17:26]
A
And how was he? How did you find it, being around him?
- [17:29]
B
To me, it's one of the most impressive person I ever met, really. Even in the way he was. Because he was not really like. It was very impressive. Everything was also made for that. That's impressive.
- [17:46]
A
Was it his decision making, his creation?
- [17:49]
B
Just the aura of the character and something really so intense also, even the way that he was a bit destroyed and thing was very impressed. And the. The silence of this person because he was talking Very, very few, very few words. And it was like. I don't know, to explain, but everything was made to. To create. To create this atmosphere. It was really like the sun and the rest of the. The people were just like satellites round. And the atmosphere was a bit like the Habsburg of Spain, you know, everyone was like this. And it was like trying to get near us. Exactly. But also it was interesting. And that's what I got later. That's what I'm very grateful for. It's that they let me watch. That was as if I were at school. That was the privilege I got.
- [18:54]
A
And where do you think accessories jewellery came in? His thinking, in Yves Salomon's thinking, the.
- [19:01]
B
Way it was working.
- [19:03]
A
What did he say? It's important to have the accessories. It's not important. Fashion, obviously first. I wonder what was his thinking about it.
- [19:13]
B
But it really depends on the season, because I know in his own history, sometimes he was even sketching them directly with the silhouette. You really have sketch like the jewels already there. But he was really of the Chanel school. So they were like the. The. The simplicity of his clothes, also called sometimes really like huge and big jewelry. So that was the, the, the. The. The relationship he had with Lulu for that, because she was there for that.
- [19:43]
A
And that's Lulu de la Falez, for everyone listening, who was incredible.
- [19:48]
B
Wasn't she incredible?
- [19:49]
A
Not that I met her, but she.
- [19:51]
B
Was really, really fantastic. But he really needed her for that.
- [19:56]
A
And she was in the inner sanctum, of course.
- [19:59]
B
Where did she. They were kind of holy Trinity. Because it was during the fittings, when he was doing like the first fittings, the confittings with all the 12 for the kut couture and things. So it's a long process. They were always sitting the third like this. So he was in the center, behind his desk, two chairs, one for Lulu La Falez, one for Anne Marie Munoz. And they were like that, watching in the mirror, the model walking. And then you come in, then you change, then you try things. That was like that. Then you choose the fabric, then you go ahead like that.
- [20:37]
A
And then Lulu would come up with a design. If you said, this needs a necklace.
- [20:40]
B
Or it needs something, it was later. No, no. She was also working on the clothes by themselves. She was proposing fabrics, colors, things. Why don't you. Would you like that? What do you think about that? Maybe you like this? Especially sometimes it was a bit dull or depressed. So she had this very hard job to make the life lighter. So sometimes it was really super heavy atmosphere and A very hard job was also to make it light and to give. To bring some ideas also. Even through herself, like she was playing things on her. She was like this. So a real muse and real inspiration, but working muse. That's what she said. She was like, I'm not that amused because I'm working hard and that's sitting on the table and waiting so that the design will look at me. No, she was really like acting.
- [21:34]
A
Yes.
- [21:34]
B
But then she used also his sketches to do her own work on jewelry. That's true that sometimes we're just like doing like little thing like that. And she played with that and she was like exaggerating it. She was proposing this type of different type of materials and things that she like to. To. To mix together. Because she was really typically like, it's very. To me, it's very Chanel school. Going a bit further, going more barbaric, going more tribal. But she was like mixing precious. Non. Precious plastic and resin and wood and precious stones and everything together. Like this type of non. To me, it's something a bit non bourgeois thing. Like you do whatever you feel like for the good effect.
- [22:25]
A
But you had to be quite confident. I think you had to have a confident style to wear her pieces to make it all work. The way she put it all together was just amazing. Everybody could do that.
- [22:36]
B
Yeah, it's true. But it was also. She was a type of trap.
- [22:40]
A
A type of trap.
- [22:42]
B
Because everything looked great on her. Ines and Marisa, they were a bit like that too. Too. Because you can put whatever you want. Suddenly it's not about what they wear. It's about the way they move, the way they are and what they put.
- [22:57]
A
It with and how it just looks. Right. And then if you got it all home, you might not be able.
- [23:01]
B
And Lulu was very impressive in the way she was mixing things like. But don't forget that she was English.
- [23:08]
A
She was, wasn't she? She was.
- [23:09]
B
She was very English, actually.
- [23:11]
A
Yes.
- [23:12]
B
So the taste was big mix between this French thing of. And Saint Laurent was super French. But she brought to him this fresh hair and this bohemian like bow. Like the shabby chic that this family invented in a way. Like, they were very Bloomsbury. They were very, like, they had this type of.
- [23:33]
A
Very artistic.
- [23:33]
B
Yes, that's what she brought. She brought like this like nonchalance, easiness of things that you just kind of make it shake in a much more easy way.
- [23:46]
A
So you were just absorbing all of this.
- [23:48]
B
Yeah.
- [23:49]
A
Which is amazing. Did you keep notes yourself at the time?
- [23:52]
B
No. I should have.
- [23:53]
A
Eta Harry should have.
- [23:56]
B
But what you. If you. About the jewelry also what he liked a lot. And that's the funny thing, I think, but I don't know the translation. He liked really very costume jewelry, in the way that we call it pakoti, you know? You know what it means. It's not very cheap, but something that look like really, like little glasses, like little rhinestones, fully full of colors and like something looking really fake, you know, you really like this type of effect of kind of cheap thing that made something a bit. Maybe it gave a good balance to sometimes a very serious outfit and Super Chicago. And they could like, like, really cheap little just. Just to have like a good sparkle of colors and mix. And. And they had one of the manufacturer, the little atelier was working for them. She told me it was very funny, but it's very Saint Laurent, because he liked to mix colors also in a very strange way, in a very great way. But it was very new in the fabrics. But for the jewelry, one of them was daltonian, you know, he was like. How do you say? He couldn't see the color properly.
- [25:10]
A
Colorblind.
- [25:11]
B
Yeah, he was colorblind. And each time the necklaces coming from him were arriving, those were the preferred pieces from Ysalon. He was like, oh, this is so great.
- [25:26]
A
This was glass.
- [25:27]
B
And it was so weird and so awkward what the guy was doing. That's a very funny thing.
- [25:35]
A
At the spare that you met Alba at the same period, because was Alba in. In a sanctum?
- [25:42]
B
No. Albert was called by Pierre be to design the Ready to Wear.
- [25:46]
A
Okay.
- [25:47]
B
And the Riv Gauge collection. So s continued to do only the haute couture collection. And Albert was doing the Ready to Wear collection. And they proposed Lulu Lafelaise. I just arrived, and it was maybe one year later, so I was 21 or something like that. And it was really the beginning. And Lulu told me, you know, our side is a bit like, it's getting old. Maybe you should join the Albers team. And so I met him. He kept me. And I have never. To be totally honest, I never knew if he was obliged to take me or if he really chosen to take me because I was so young, you know, he didn't really know what to do out of me.
- [26:27]
A
But you worked with him for 15 years later.
- [26:30]
B
Yes.
- [26:31]
A
So he did like you, I think.
- [26:34]
B
I don't know. The beginning was a bit awkward because I know that maybe. And suddenly he had no one to work on accessories, really, like on jewelry, also on costume jewelry. And it was A big part of the salon thing. So it just tried with me. That's how it started. It told me, try, do me like this, this. And that's how I started.
- [26:57]
A
I started sketching.
- [26:59]
B
I was okay, but sketching is not enough.
- [27:02]
A
You have to know the mechanics.
- [27:03]
B
If you don't know anything about techniques, if you don't know anything about the way it's done, you cannot really. It's very nice to do a nice sketch, but it doesn't make a nice piece of jewelry. So I really started to learn with those costume jewelry workshops. That's how it started.
- [27:22]
A
A lot of the great jewelry designers learned on costume.
- [27:26]
B
And I get like super excited by that. And he liked it, so he encouraged me to continue on that. And when he left, when the big earthquake, how do you say, a ride with Tom Ford and Gucci and all this terrible period. And there was fired, actually. We went all the way. I went back to the haute couture studio because Dulu liked what I did with Albert. And she was like, why don't you come back with us? And that's what I did until the haute Couture closed in 2002. And in the same time, in the. Just before 2001, Albert started Lanvin and he called me and was like, do you want to come with me? I was like, yes, for sure.
- [28:15]
A
Timing was perfect.
- [28:16]
B
Yes, I've been very lucky.
- [28:17]
A
And Longvin was so instrumental, weren't they, in making costume jewelry something that everybody.
- [28:24]
B
Wear with the pearls and the fabrics?
- [28:27]
A
Yes, the pearls and the fabrics. Were you responsible?
- [28:30]
B
That's how it started. But if you remember, at the beginning, costume jewelry were not fashionable yet again. It was a bit like the beginning of something.
- [28:44]
A
Something you couldn't afford, you couldn't have jewelry you'd make do with a piece of costume. It wasn't fashionable?
- [28:50]
B
No, it was not on the fashion show anymore because we were post Helmutlang, gillesandre, Gucci, Tom Ford and fashion and costume jewelry. It was so, so unfashionable. Albert, I've been so lucky also, because he was really fond of jewelry, really loved them. He loved it. And he really wanted to put them back on the fashion show. That's how it restarted. So we went progressively because if you remember, 2002, 2003 was still a bit shy. 2004, 2005, I think we started, like to go like really much more, bigger, much more. And we got. I may be so excited by the fact that it worked. You know, they were like something like. Bit like that. During several years. It Was. And I was also maybe started to really possess more technique and more knowledge about what. So I was maybe a bit more sure about what I was doing. So we really started to get so excited. And it was four times a year because we are doing, like, the. Also the pre collection and two fashion shows. And each time it was like a new story, new things. And it started with these fabrics, because this is really from Albert, because he was like, Longvin is not a great accessory house. You know, we cannot compete with Gucci. We cannot compete with Hermes. We cannot. We will never be there. Longvin is a great ready to wear fashion house. So we will put fabrics everywhere. We will put fabrics in handbags, we put fabrics into shoes. And we will use fabric with the jewelry. That's how it started.
- [30:39]
A
And everyone was wearing it. And it kind of made pearls.
- [30:45]
B
Coup de gag.
- [30:47]
A
They had been languishing in people's stores. No one had been wearing. Nobody wanted to wear them. And it just brought it back, didn't it?
- [30:54]
B
Yeah. And it started with the net with the tulle, but then we did, like, so many different exercise with all the types of ribbons and grosgrain and tafta and chiffon and whatever. We use, like, everything we could. It was really, really exciting, even in Jersey. But then we did also, like, really much more.
- [31:18]
A
What was your favorite piece that you made or for which collection? What was your favorite?
- [31:23]
B
Hello. Maybe the first collection I really remember. It's what we call the art deco collection. For the jewelry and for the clothes, it was all made out of grogu. All the clothes, all the fabrics. It was just like ribbons, Ribbons, ribbon stitched together. So it was very light, very smooth like this. And we did, like, really chunky, big, geometrical, heavy, like anchors. The jewelry were really, really very constructed. It was bit like the balance of the clothes, you know, like, there was something a bit the opposite of it. And it was made out of big, big Zarovski crystal pieces and mix of 2 tons of color, of metal. And it was looking like really NCO pieces. And we used. Because I couldn't find the proper crystal because it was difficult to find, like, pieces like this. And I found it. Swarovski was doing all those pieces for the bathrooms and those nudes for all those things.
- [32:34]
A
How funny.
- [32:35]
B
So I used that and introduced them into the jewelry. So it made, like, enormous curve, enormous necklace. So this was a bit my first really strong collection, but it was not that wearable because it was.
- [32:49]
A
They're heavy. Heavy.
- [32:51]
B
So then I worked a lot on the Weight, that was the big problem. When you want volume and lightness. And progressively it became better. And when we did the eagle, I don't if, you know, if you remember that collection, they were like eagles, snakes and big crosses like that. And this, maybe it's one of my prefer for the. The way we achieved it, the way it was done also.
- [33:14]
A
And then in 2015, you wanted to start fine jewelry.
- [33:19]
B
Yes.
- [33:19]
A
Had you been thinking about that for a while?
- [33:21]
B
Yes, long time ago.
- [33:24]
A
Because what you wanted to create some things using Precious to make it last?
- [33:29]
B
Yes, I wanted. Maybe I wanted to disconnect from the.
- [33:34]
A
Fashion show also, because that must have been exhausting.
- [33:38]
B
Very exhausting. And I thought maybe creatively I had done the. The circle was a bit closed, you know, I didn't know really what I could bring new into that. I had the feeling of maybe try something a bit. But the thing is, really, I wanted to talk by my own. I wanted to talk my own way.
- [34:01]
A
You said do your own thing. Really? Yes.
- [34:04]
B
And I wanted to do something a bit more, not timeless, but would last more. And to be more precise, to go farther and because I was always a bit frustrated by the fact that we were redoing things every three months. And it was not as a shift that I would like. And I thought, if I start working on Precious Thing, it will be totally different, and I will work on it if I want two years, and it will be really as sophisticated. That was also a new field for me of creativity and things that we.
- [34:45]
A
Wanted to explore and have a new challenge.
- [34:48]
B
Exactly. And a big challenge. Because it was not easy to speak my own voice. I had worked for so many different, very strong designers before that I didn't really know what was my personal part, what was the part of the company I was working for. So it took me two or three years to find a way I wanted to do it. It was not easy.
- [35:13]
A
And did you have an idea of what you looked around and saw in fine jewelry, how you wanted to do it differently?
- [35:20]
B
No, it was more spontaneous than that, actually. My main thing was I wanted something very designed, very. It was as personal as I could. It's the only thing I can say. I cannot. I don't know. What I know is that it was really necessary, what I did in the way that it was. It could not have been something else. The first collection was really the first collection I wanted. It was really what I wanted to show first. Then it's like step by step, and it was all about. It could not have been more personal. And Then I think I was a bit too naive because I had no business experience at all. So I even didn't really anticipate what. What it gonna be. You know, I wanted to do it, I started to do it. But then you learn when you. When it's like. It's not easy.
- [36:21]
A
Buying the stones is a whole new expertise.
- [36:24]
B
Totally, totally. But then it came later, really much more lateral stone story. Because that's not what I wanted to say first. I was like, everyone has stones, everyone has. Is showing that. So if I want to be different, if I want to exist in a way, because we are a lot. There's a lot of good designers also and young good designers and your designer. There's a lot of things. So you have to try a way to. To be. Would you say remarkable? No, no, not remarkable, but noticed.
- [36:59]
A
Sexual yourself or have something different?
- [37:01]
B
Exactly.
- [37:02]
A
Do you think that your passion for architecture came out?
- [37:06]
B
Absolutely everything came back because it has.
- [37:10]
A
Had this gothic, baroque sensibility, even that.
- [37:13]
B
And I was very surprised.
- [37:15]
A
Much more architecture than fashion, that's for sure.
- [37:18]
B
Fashion, it's still there because my school is fashion. So you can see it in the way that I imagine the way it's going to be warm in the volumes. But I still like really bold and big and cool pieces. And I always start. When I start a new collection or I start sketching, I sketch attitude, I sketch women, I sketch faces, hairdressing.
- [37:46]
A
So you imagine who will wear it always?
- [37:48]
B
I start by that.
- [37:49]
A
And what kind of women are they? Do they have a particular ham or.
- [37:54]
B
It depends of the collection.
- [37:55]
A
Oh really? So they see the collection, the woman?
- [37:58]
B
Yeah, I. I have to find a face in a way, like imaginative. But there is something like, you know, I don't know if she will have long hair, short hair or brass or whatever, but there is something about that. So I start to sketch like that and then I go more precise, deeper into the real shapes and think it's more about this attitude and allure I need to find first.
- [38:23]
A
And you like dark metal? Sort of.
- [38:27]
B
I like mix metal.
- [38:28]
A
Mix, yes. I mean not shiny yellow gold. It's always mixed with something.
- [38:33]
B
I need to mix it because I use the dark silver as a background to make it more graphic and to also as it gives this feeling of. You don't really know when it's been made because it looks a bit old. It looks. You see what I mean? To mix those things. Time. It's the time capsule that I like and it been created by. By this distressed silver. It kills the. The. The The. The dating. That's what I like. And I didn't. I don't really like very shiny pieces, like playing golfing. I like when it's a bit like. And so it makes it a bit more strange. That's what I like. And now it became a kind of trademark. So I. I really use it all the time. Yes. And it makes. Technically. It makes it more difficult to make and so on.
- [39:25]
A
And so you're sketching the women. And where do you sketch inspiration? Where does the inspiration come from or from your reading? Does it come from all the things you're reading and noticing?
- [39:38]
B
It's a mix of so many things. It comes from objects, it comes from songs, it comes from books, songs.
- [39:47]
A
So what. What. Like, what would.
- [39:48]
B
But, for instance, La Dame du Lac, you know, the medieval, the neo medieval, the lady of the Lake story. I don't know if it comes from. But the atmosphere was really about Joan Bayes. And I was listening to her all the time when I was sketching that. And it started with her because she was kind of a troubadour, Elizabethan singer. Sometimes she's really have some version of folk poetic, like very simple, just a guitar, a voice and a poem, English poem, like the Queen of Hearts, which. I really love that song. And it could have been. It could have. It's been the song of that theme. So that was also. It was her voice, but it was also. Then the shields, then the knights, then Aubrey Bursley, a lot of pre Raphaelite, like Burne Jones, pre Raphaelite artists. It was much more from that. It was very British, actually, these days.
- [40:49]
A
Pale skin.
- [40:50]
B
Yes. Yes.
- [40:51]
A
Do you ever show people your sketchbooks?
- [40:54]
B
No, no, no.
- [40:56]
A
Do you show them to clients?
- [40:57]
B
Sometimes, but then I have pictures. I have got them. Kind of messy thing. I need like, elements all around. Also. I like objects. I like my kitchen to get inspiration because I'm mechanical, you know. So what objects that. Basically. For the. The first collection for the mechanic Celeste, my big inspiration is really like the sugar pot.
- [41:21]
A
Okay.
- [41:22]
B
It's like this. It's a sphere.
- [41:24]
A
Oh, I see.
- [41:24]
B
And it's just moving like that. I was really, like, looking for that. Looking for. I wanted a piece of jewelry with two aspects and I wanted. And I didn't really know how to do it, and it was really. And once I had my coffee in a bar there and I look at the sugar, but I was like, this is. Is it. It's so obvious. So that was it.
- [41:46]
A
So you have the polished lid that opens to reveal the stone inside with.
- [41:51]
B
A Very simple system. One axe and it just like moving on itself. And it's real, it's hide and seek. It's like this. And for the. The animals that I did, I was really much more inspired by antique. I have them there, Bu de petant, you know, the. The game. So they were antiques that I found. They were like three colors of like studs like that. And it was brass, iron and copper. And it looked really like a snake skin. And I was like, this is it. This is the way I'm gonna do all those animals thing. And I mix like rose gold, yellow gold and dark silver. And it looks a bit like that. Like it's a pasi thing. Actually. It looks also very hammered and it looks like something a bit more rough. That's what I liked. So sometimes you can. It can be like that. It can be from a poem, it can be from a song, it can be from just a picture or sometimes little element of things that you find. And also the ideas can come to me. It's really step by step, as I told you. So then I started to be interested in the animals because I thought it was the time I have to face this exercise, you know. And I was like, maybe it's time now I can do it. So I will propose my vision of animals in a jewelry. So maybe next time, I don't know, I will do like flowers or, you know, because they all exercise. For me, it's really classics. So you have to face them and find a new way to do it.
- [43:27]
A
And you like galaxies and celestial ideas.
- [43:31]
B
That was really the beginning of my work was all about the. Those planets and armillary spheres. And because they were this mechanic thing that I wanted to introduce also. So it was moving, it was describing kind of little universe and planets. It was kind of poetic and dreamy. Even if the strange thing is that I'm super scared by the space. I can't think about it.
- [43:55]
A
Oh really? Because I imagined you'd be somebody who would want to go to space.
- [43:59]
B
No, I hate it. I did it as. As a conjuration, like, just like. As if I had to face something. I realized it later that it's one of the things I'm the most scared about. Black holes, the infinity of the thing. And it's all the questioning. It's super metaphysic. Then you like, it's the big why. You know, it's just like it's all about that. It's about God, it's about the infinite, but you don't know. So it's really scary. And I did all my first collection about that.
- [44:35]
A
So will you get back to that subject?
- [44:37]
B
I still. I continue. I develop like new pieces in the same theme. Everything is continued side by side. Because to me, it makes the same. It's the same story in a way.
- [44:48]
A
So your kinetic pieces, where you sort of flip something over and you reveal a stone. Do you think that's also playing with the precious idea that some of your clients might want to wear it all day and they don't want to show a stone in the day.
- [45:03]
B
Wait, it came. It came up like that. But it was not my first intention. I did it and I still do it. But my idea was to give more versatility and just to give freedom to that woman that if she wants to be like super drab, serious, and she just want to have plain gold and something very designed, she wear it clothes. Suddenly she wants to have more fantasy and sparkle and thing. And she open and she full stones. But it's true that finally you can also just hide it. If you feel insecure, you can hide it too. And it's very practical. It's playful and practical. And I like the contrast between the fact that when it's closed, it really looked postmodernist. I would say when you open it, it's almost like a vintage engagement ring that you who got from your grandmother.
- [45:53]
A
And what's the biggest difference? Take away the precious stones. The biggest difference between designing costume to. Fine.
- [46:03]
B
I will say something strange, but I told you already, no, to me, it's really much more complicated to do costume jewelry than fine jewelry.
- [46:13]
A
Really?
- [46:13]
B
Technically, yes.
- [46:15]
A
That's so strange. How come?
- [46:18]
B
Because in high jewelry and fine jewelry, when you're on precious, you have no boundaries. Technically, almost. If you have the. If you can afford it, yeah, you. You can put everything together like almost very easily. And so it. It's very exciting. When you do costume jewelry, you have so many problems with the cheap metal you use, with the mix of colors of metal that you cannot do because they're deep into colors before, so you cannot put them together properly. When you. You have the. All those glued stones and all those weights and you cannot imagine it. It's like night and day.
- [47:08]
A
So you fairly recently did a collection for Zara bees and sunflowers. So that's more complicated than making one of these beautiful sort of ring, double ring.
- [47:22]
B
No, it's not easy, but maybe I'm not right, but I find I had more. No, no. I know that if I ask my workshop today to do that, he will tell Me? Yes, you can do it. When I was working on costume jewelry, I had so many rules and the things to have in mind that was not possible to do.
- [47:46]
A
That's very interesting. Usually I sort of feel that they're more rules than fine. And what you use diamonds for or what you can do and the costumes, like the world's your oyster. But that's not true.
- [47:58]
B
But it's not true technically.
- [48:00]
A
Right?
- [48:01]
B
Then the taste, the thing, the boundaries you give to yourself, well, this is something else. But technically to me it's not the same at all. And the big problem that my big not big problem. But now the, the, the, the. When you do precious, it's the price depends if you can afford it or not.
- [48:23]
A
And do you have a boundary of what you think a piece of jewelry should cost or do you think it just depends on the client?
- [48:30]
B
I know, I never thought about.
- [48:32]
A
Never thought about it. You make what you like and then you price it.
- [48:34]
B
Then I'm not super expensive. Let's say that I want women or men, because I also have men clients. I want them to wear naturally. So my intention is also to make wearable pieces, but also affordable pieces in a way that you won't be afraid to wear them. You see what I mean? If you have like 5 millions, 10 millions, and it's just to think that they will end in the safe, to me there's no point. Wear it and wear it cool. To me, most of the time I imagine it. To me it's like sweater T shirts and the way people are dressed now, like really much cool, more like casual than it used to be. And when you have a good chunky piece of jewelry, it gives you like the value you need. So then it's easy. It's not obliged to be at the evening.
- [49:33]
A
One quote that you said, you can't be submerged by the preciousness of a thing. If wearing jewellery means losing your freedom, it's hell.
- [49:42]
B
Oh yeah, exactly.
- [49:43]
A
It's got to be relaxed and fit and comfort as well.
- [49:48]
B
Yeah, it's a big part of it.
- [49:50]
A
So we're here in couture is beginning to be shown in Paris. Are you so happy that you chose jewelry above fashion?
- [50:02]
B
I don't want to seem too. Not pretentious, but I know I was meant to do that. I understood it.
- [50:11]
A
So it led you.
- [50:13]
B
You have to live the. You have to get the things when it happened in your life.
- [50:18]
A
No.
- [50:19]
B
And I took my chance. I would say maybe, thanks God, I met Albert at the beginning, but maybe I would have done it Anyway, I don't know. But when I know. What I know is when I'm sketching jewelry, I'm doing exactly the same that when I was 8 and I was sketching a castle. Exactly the same thing, because I was sketching. And I realized it once when I was 30 or something like that. Suddenly I had this, like, postulate moment. I don't know. I had this superposition, you know, of myself as a child and myself now. I was sketching, like, super precisely, and I was doing all these little things and details of things because I'm not computer at all. And suddenly I just saw myself when I was 8. You see what I mean? And I was like, actually, I still do exactly the same thing. I have been moved from that to that. Just like, super coherent, actually. And when I'm working on my jewelry, I worked on little buildings. You know, I'm building something even if it's like this. It's just your. Like, it's an elevation of a little building or something like your. Stone by stone, constructing your talent.
- [51:43]
A
That's your talent. And you've been lucky enough and clever enough to take it and use it in a way that you want and that is successful for you.
- [51:53]
B
Well, then you have to. You have to live the life. No. Lead you sometimes.
- [51:59]
A
Are you working on a collection right now?
- [52:01]
B
Yes.
- [52:02]
A
And what is that? You can't.
- [52:05]
B
When will that come up? No, I work on some special pieces for the pad in London.
- [52:13]
A
Okay. That's in October.
- [52:14]
B
Yes, but these are more like. Type of variation of, like, pieces I already done, but in a different way. Like more. Much more colorful and. But the big new collection will be in January 24th.
- [52:30]
A
Couture.
- [52:31]
B
Yes. Ten years.
- [52:33]
A
Wow. Congratulations. And what will that be?
- [52:37]
B
I'm statistic.
- [52:39]
A
Okay, so when have the pieces been made? They are being made.
- [52:44]
B
They are being made. I worked on it since one year and a half, and it's. It's. It's another side of my aesthetic I've never shown yet that I wanted to explore. It's very precious.
- [53:01]
A
That's exciting. We look forward to it.
- [53:02]
B
It's kind of. There is a little optical game.
- [53:07]
A
Okay, Optical game.
- [53:09]
B
I like that.
- [53:10]
A
And I personally can't wait to see some flowers.
- [53:13]
B
This will be in two years or three years. That could be funny to do.
- [53:19]
A
I would love that.
- [53:21]
B
I will have to face it once. It's like a butterfly or. I don't know. Sometimes you have to do that. It's not easy when, you know, all the butterflies or all the flowers that have been dawn Then what do you do?
- [53:35]
A
Well, we're looking forward to it. Ellie, thank you very much for allowing us in and I'm going to take lots of images that will be up to go with this so people can see more closely your work. Thank you, Carol, and thank you very much for having us.
- [53:50]
B
Thank you to you for sharing your fascinating career. It was a great conversation. I was very happy. Good. Thank you. Civil.
- [54:04]
A
Thank you for listening. For this and other episodes of if Jules Could Talk, please go to our website, carolwalton.com share it any way you can if you've enjoyed it. And we love to have a rating and a comment, so thank you. We're on YouTube and arawatton on Instagram where we try and keep you updated, updated with images and videos of the people we've been talking to. So join me again in two weeks for the next jewelled nugget. Did you know that there's a university for jewellery? Well, join me in two weeks and you're going to hear all about it and it's pretty fascinating. So join me again in two weeks and thank you for listening. Bye. Bye. If Jules Could Talk With Carol is produced by Natasha Cowan. Music and editing by Tim Thornton. Graphics by Scott Bentley. Illustration by Jordi Labander. You can find our sponsors@ fully gemstones.com and me@carolwilton.com.