← If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton
If Jewels Could Talk with Carol Woolton
KUTCHINSKY'S EGG - THE REAL LIFE EGG HUNT FOR A GIANT JEWEL TO RIVAL FABERGÉ
01:03:36
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- [00:00]
A
Hello, this is Carole Walton, the voice of Jewellery. I want to invite you personally to a live podcast that we're recording in London. It's March 16, 6pm, cocktails at Harvey Nicholls, the department store. I'll be in conversation with Kate Phelan, the creative director of Harvey Nicholls, who's an old colleague, she was fashion director of Vogue for years and Anna Murphy, the fashion editor of the Times. And we are going to answer the question that I get asked a lot. How. How to buy jewellery. Come and join us. To sign up you need to just Google if Jules Could Talk. Harvey Nicholls. That's N I C H O L S and the top hit should be our event, if Jules Could Talk. Live event at Harvey Nicholls. This episode is brought to you by Leibish Coloured diamond Specialists. Did you know that only one stone in 10,000 discovered is a colored diamond,
- [01:05]
B
I must say as well, actually, whenever the egg flew, obviously it could never be put in the hold. Far too valuable.
- [01:12]
A
So to carry it.
- [01:13]
B
Well, it had it, it had three seats in first class. You know, my parents were either sort of in business or you know, even God forbid for them, relegated to economy. And the egg was up there in first class, you know, spread across three seats with its bodyguards, obviously.
- [01:29]
A
I'm Carol Houlton, the voice of Jewellery. Welcome to if Jules Could Talk. I'm an author and broadcaster and the woman who initiated the role of jewellery editor at magazines like Tatler and Vogue. This is a podcast for everyone, for people who do like jewellery, for people who don't realise they like jewellery, and anyone intrigued by fascinating facts, new ideas and forgotten histories. So join me as I tell sparkly tales and meet all sorts of people delving into four centuries of jewellery culture and investigate what's happening now. I'm very happy to be here today with my guest Serena Kucinski, who's an award winning journalist who's worked for the BBC, Sky News, Sunday Times and the Inewspaper, as well as coming from a long line of jewellers. And she's just written her first gripping book called Kucinski's Egg. It's about a 7 million pound jewel made by her father, Paul Kucinski, but the book reads like a crime suspense thriller. I wrote a cover quote for the book which says luxury and obsession collide in this fascinating thriller, as finely wrought as the Faberge style egg masterpiece at its center. So Serena went on a massive egg hunt and we're going to find out all about it now. So Serena, thanks for joining me.
- [03:00]
B
Thanks for having me Carol, it's an absolute pleasure.
- [03:03]
A
I love the way the book begins for anyone who remembers the great Terry Wogan, who back in the day had millions and millions of viewers every night when less options of television to watch. There were like four or five channels, weren't there?
- [03:21]
B
Absolutely, yes. And, you know, Wogan at 7pm on the BBC three nights a week was the absolute pinnacle. I mean, and I, as a child, remember it very vividly, getting to, you know, occasionally stay up to watch it. And obviously, the night that my father was on it with the egg was such a big deal. You know, my mum was in the studio, my grandparents were actually at home, they'd come down from Scotland, grandparents on my mother's side, that is, to watch it with us. And it was a big, big deal. And I sort of remember jumping up and down and being like, my dad's on tv.
- [03:54]
A
So you set the pace of this book about what your father's made, which you will describe to us in a second. But what I love about this opening is that you feel the tension that the rest of the book has. You feel the fact that you. He's very nervous about this egg. He is worried that actually the doors won't open for the motorized mechanics, won't work. You feel his. His nervousness. He's been drinking and you get the sense that this is all gonna go horribly wrong. Which, of course, subsequently it does. But anyway, tell us. But I love that opening. And tell us about the egg that he's showing.
- [04:36]
B
So, yeah, I mean, so the egg was, you know, his masterpiece. It was a sort of golden pink diam diva dream that he'd obsessed about making ever since he first went to an exhibition of Faberge Treasures in 1986. But the egg itself, I mean, it sort of evolved from a sketch and it grew and then the words of the designer became a monster. It was a homage to Faberge, who was my father's absolute jewelry hero. You know, growing up himself from a family of Russian Polish descent. They had lived in Imperial Russia in the time that Faberge was making jewellery. So he always felt a close link and loved Faberge's sort of ability to transform everyday objects into things of wonder and beauty. So the egg that my father made, you know, that you see, with two bodyguards behind it on Wogan, and as you said, my father sort of anxiously crossing his legs and Terry doing his sort of jovial chat show best, was made from 15 kg of gold. It had 20,000 pink diamonds, 24,000 diamonds total, but 20,000 of them, the Rarest pinks imag. Imaginable from the Argyll mine, which is obviously now sadly not in production anymore. And at that time, pink diamonds weren't anywhere near as well known as they became. And the egg played a part in that. And then one of the things he was desperate to pay tribute to Faberge with. So, you know, it was a big, big gold shell on a big pedestal. The outside was sort of beautifully engraved, had 60 individual panels with coral enamel pink diamonds in a sort of floral petals pattern. And on the diamond petals and a massive 5 carat whopper on the absolute top. Stunning. What was a white diamond stunner. And then when the doors opened, as you mentioned, there may have been a few issues with that. We'll come to that later, I'm sure. But yes, when the doors opened in the Faberge manor, where there was always a surprise secreted away inside the imperial eggs, my father was determined that this egg would have similar wow factor. And so there was a jeweled library at first, every tiny little detail, a diamond clock, you know, a dresser studded with diamonds, tiny little gold drawers that you could pull out, keep your secret diamond stash in little books with enamel, blue enameled covers that you could take off the shelf. And they even opened up and you could put pictures of loved ones and some more diamonds inside. And then it rotated and there was a jeweled portrait gallery, so kind of enamel blue again, this very rich cornflower blue that again was associated very closely with Faberge and a variety of size of picture frames, really, so that you could put, you know, pictures of your loved ones in there. Actually, he had intended to have miniature portraits painted, but may have run out of time and money. So the pictures that went in in the end were a mix of cutouts from Tatler and some from my history textbooks at the last minute. But yes, it was stunning. I mean, it was obviously, it was an objet d' art on an unprecedented scale.
- [07:52]
A
But of course, Faberge, some of the eggs Carl Faberge made were small. And this was what, two feet tall?
- [08:00]
B
Yes, two foot tall. It took 7,000 man hours. There was a team of all in all, including the freelance artisans that were involved. There was a core team of 10. And then in total, 40 craftsmen and craftspeople worked on it over the time. Yes, I mean, it was about as big as me, as it must have been, about the same size that I was when I was 10 and 11 years old when it was being built. So I just at the time couldn't really understand it. I was like, why do you want to build an Easter egg so big that's not made of chocolate?
- [08:33]
A
Do you remember seeing it then as a child?
- [08:36]
B
Absolutely. The first time is utterly imprinted on my memory. You know, obviously by the time my dad first told me about it when I was about nine, sort of a year and a. I think or so before it was actually debuted, we'd commandeered a digger that was being used to make the tennis court in our garden and having a sort of father daughter moment where we were pretending that we'd hijacked this JCB and driving it around the area. Totally ridiculous. Anyway, he first told me of his sort of pipe dream and I nodded along and was like, okay, fine. Daddy told me all about favage and the story of the Romanovs, which again, you know, stayed with me actually, because it's such a striking story. And then it was about a year and a half later and by that point his obsession with the egg was so dominant by then and it had become a presence in our lives. It had become a presence in my parents marriage. I mean, you know, Diana talked about three people in the. In her marriage, in my parents marriage, there was two people and an egg and. And anyway, in all our lives. So it was like we were just all holding on to this idea of life after the egg. But yes, I didn't see it in person until the night of the. It was. It went on exhibition at Victoria and Albert Museum in April 1990. Part of an ex sort of British craftsmanship. And it was a special display and there was a launch and a cocktail party where lots of, you know, famous people were invited. Fiona Fullerton. And Andrew Ne was an actress at the time. She'd been a Bond girl, so she was, you know, very glam. And the then editor of Sunday Times, Andrew Neil, and a minor royal, Marina Ogilvy. And that prompted a kind of tabloid Ferrari outside because she had fallen pregnant by her partner out of wedlock. Shock, horror.
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A
And that seems pretty tame these days.
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B
I know in 1990 that was still a big deal. So, yes, I remember being so excited that my parents allowed me to stay up. I couldn't believe it, you know, and then. And it was there in front of me and I did get in quite a lot of trouble, Carol, because I just couldn't resist. So we got there a bit early and. And it was being kind of polished up and put in the display case and my parents were sort of engaged elsewhere and I snuck up to it and, you know, you can't describe how beautiful those Diamonds are.
- [10:57]
A
Oh, those pink ones must have been just mesmerizing. It was to see so many. I mean, usually you see one tiny one, but they're so rare. But to see them all together must have been extraordinary.
- [11:10]
B
Sort of like, you know, candy floss, bubblegum shadows everywhere. And even though I wasn't that into pink, actually when I was young, I was a bit of a tomboy, but it was still very bewitching. Anyway, I put my hand out to touch it and for a brief moment, you know, ran my fingers over the, over the faucets and over the gold. And then the security guard obviously saw me and, you know, and then I was sort of having to run away through this crowd of people and drinks went flying and my parents were sort of running after me and my sister. I dragged my sister, sister with me. Poor Katrina. And yes, parents were sort of cursing and I did get in a lot of trouble, but I don't think I was allowed to go to the next cocktail party. But at least I'd seen it and I touched the egg and I'd felt a connection with this thing that, you know, had become almost part of my father by then.
- [12:03]
A
And why it's so significant, because as you reference in the book, that you were born into this historic 100 year old family jewelry business that had a very beautiful showroom on Knightsbridge in London. And it was going so well, a ton of famous clients, people coming to its store to buy the jewelry. Until your father made this egg and as you say in your words, smashed everything to bits.
- [12:33]
B
Yes. The thing about privilege, when you grow up in a kind of, you know, gilded world, which, you know, to some degrees we certainly did, is you. You don't really, you know, it's just normal. You don't really have any comparison. So I used to get teased at school because my pritt sticks would have come from Harrods and all my pencil case would have come from Harrods because my mum would have just nipped out from the shop to the corner shop, which in that case was Harrods. So, you know, you. It sort of. It was a very interesting childhood. It was also. They were very Jewish family and my mother was not Jewish, she was Scottish from a working class background. And she married into this very powerful Jewish family who thought of themselves a sort of Jewish royalty in London, behaved that way and were treated that way, really. Everyone wore fur coats.
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A
They were sponsoring polo matches and living the high life.
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B
Absolutely. You know, the polo matches were just sort of, like I always said, it Was like the wedding my parents didn't have, you know, because of the religious problems, their first wedding was canceled. It was a bit more low key. My mum didn't wear white. Not that she turned up in a massive ball gown to the polo day because obviously that would have been strange. But they were very glamorous affairs, beautiful marquees, you know, we played against Prince Charles, we beat him. My mother was on the board of Help the Aged and the Queen Charlotte's Ball and all these kind of very high profile philanthropic committees. And often they would, at the charity balls then they would auction off Kicinsky jewelry, you know, and she was sort of attending functions with Princess Diana. And one of the things I discovered when I. I was writing the book was the sort of immigrant roots. And I'm sure we'll go into that later. But it had been my grandfather and grandmother's plan that my mum and dad would be the sort of anglicized public face and they would infiltrate into high society, you know, and. And they, they did. They were in the pages of Tatler. They were members of Annabelle's, you know, the poshest basement on the planet as it, you know, it was christened. I just sort of took it all, you know, for granted's not quite the right word. But yeah, it was just normal to me, normal life.
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A
And actually, you know, to set Kuchinski where they were in the sort of jewelry landscape. When I was researching my book on Vogue, the jewelry A Century of Jewellery and Vogue and I sort of sat in the archives for a long time and there was a period that you're talking about in the 70s, 80s, 90s, where every shoot, when I looked at the credits were Garrard, Asbury, Kuchinski, Collingwood. Really that, that little set of British jewelers were used so much and Kuchinski
- [15:09]
B
was at the forefront absolutely very ahead of his time. And I had no idea as a child of the kind of, you know, intense creativity and creative flair. And so that really made building a reputation for this high art, fine gold jewelry that was more affordable and accessible than a lot of the traditional jewelry that you saw at that time, more with Cartier and Bulgaria etc, gave Kicinsky and in a breakthrough and really helped build the brand. And then the move to the West End, which was well timed again with the kind of explosion of the Middle east and a new class of kind of wealthy customer. There was a quote that I came across in a newspaper interview which I thought was great, which was like, basically, you know, I'd sell them a Lighter on day one for, you know, a decent price and then keep them coming back and then sell them the actual hundred grand, you know, 100,000 pound necklace on day two. But yes, they were very, you know, all the celebrities in the 60s, the Beatles, their girlfriends, Elizabeth Taylor, Diana Dawes, John Profumo, even of the famous sex scandal, fame, notoriety, rather.
- [16:14]
A
So generations had worked unbelievably hard in the course of improving lives and creating an expertise and getting to Knightsbridge and the West End. And then your father's ambition to create the egg of all eggs blew the whole thing to smithereens.
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B
Absolutely. He was the first generation born into wealth, which I think is interesting as well. Glamorous nights out at Annabelle's, living the high life, projecting this image of wealth. I found it interesting, you know, you're the seller, aren't you? You'll have to be with the wealthy people. You have to act like them, dress like them, haunt their, you know, be in all their haunts and hangouts, but you're still there to try and sell them something. Yeah, and I think that. I think my father struggled with that a bit. Anyway, so then the idea for the egg had been bubbling for a while
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A
and that was a way to sort of set Kiczynski above to compete with all the big European jewelers like Bulgarian Cartier.
- [17:16]
B
Yes, exactly. I think when he did finally take over and started doing some collections, you know, they fell a bit flat. They were different to what people expected from Kicinsky and they were lovely but, you know, not very distinctive. And at that time, the objet market, London had become the capital of the objet market. And, you know, my father saw an opportunity to be a bit more creative. You know, he was a bit frustrated artistically, if you like, by the limitations of bangles, you know, as he would call it, necklaces and bangles and earrings, and wanted to make something different. So, yes, it was a combination of wanting to lift the jewellery house up another level and produce something that no one else could ever have dreamed of. And I think there was a degree of, you know, wanting creative fulfillment for himself, wanting to be a jeweler artist, you know, as Faberge was his hero. Not just like his father, who was, you know, as much a creative, you know, had incredible creative genius, but was also a businessman first, I think, and my father was probably a creative first and a businessman, as we found out, second, because clearly the idea of building a massive, giant gold egg that nobody has actually asked you to build is a little bit bananas.
- [18:38]
A
So the reason you have gone on this egg hunt is that the egg disappeared at a certain point, as we'll come to. So you wanted to track it down to understand. To understand why your father made it, who made it, how it happened and where it landed up. So how did you start your research?
- [18:58]
B
Oh, Carol. I mean for, you know, I always say it took a decade. I mean, I think it took longer really. You know, the story had stayed with us but we weren't allowed to talk about it really, after everything went wrong after the egg. The egg was this taboo subject that just never, you know, if you brought it up, everyone's face drop. My mum would look upset. Anger, you know, it was just not talked about until one day when I was at Glastonbury. It's always easier to tell stories to strangers, isn't it? I was obviously, you know, I sort of been out. Well, we'd stayed up all night and it was. The sun was coming up and I'd met this very handsome stranger, sexy Scottish stranger, who was briefly my. My soulmate. And we were.
- [19:47]
A
For the night anyway?
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B
Yes, exactly. Yes, very briefly. But he served a good purpose. Anyway, we were having one of those sort of chats that you, you know, wide ranging, sort of getting to know you chats. And he said that his dad had played in a rock band at glastonbury in the 70s. And I was like, oh, that's cool. But hey, guess what? My dad made the world's largest gold egg. Jeweled egg. And then he was like, oh, what is this a dad off? It's like, well, I think I win. Anyway, I walked away from that morning really happened with him. But he made me, he really liked hearing the story and he said, well, you know, you should keep telling the story. And he also asked me where the egg was. And at that, at that point, for me, the sort of. The fun drained out of it a bit because I was like, oh, I don't know. And I don't think I want to know. I wasn't ready even sort of being able to frame it as something positive that was new. So I walked away from that, didn't really think much of it, but had enjoyed telling the story. And then I did start telling the story more, you know, it became a sort of late night party piece when there was a lull in the conversation. You know, I'd bring it out and had a routine, had a picture of my dad and everyone would be like, wow, he's such a legend. He looks so much like you. And obviously everyone would just. Jaws would Drop when they saw the egg. Yeah. So that carried on for a while and then I was working for the Sunday Times on the magazine and we had a weekly conference, which was terrifying. I'm sure you've been in some of these, Carol, but I'm sure you're not terrified. No, no.
- [21:20]
A
It's like being on Mastermind, isn't it? It's like the light shines on you. What are your ideas?
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B
Oh, God. Exactly. And I'd actually been very studious most weeks because I was young. I was probably. Well, I say young now, but, you know, I was in my sort of early, ish 30s and was sort of, you know, very keen to. To get, you know, to get my stuff in the magazine. And I usually had prepared ideas. But that week, for some reason, you know, probably involving some other straight, you know.
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A
Yeah, Glastonbury.
- [21:48]
B
It's probably involving Glastonbury or other sexy strangers. Who knows? Anyway, I can't remember, but I hadn't prepared anything and suddenly it was my turn and I just thought, okay, fine, I'm just gonna say the story. And so that was the first time that I'd ever talked about it sober. And it was excruciating, I'm not going to lie, because you could sort of tell, you know, she'd do this nod, like, yeah, and then you knew you were doomed. But anyway, actually, to my shock, she liked it and said, oh, you know, brilliant, let's do that for our Father's Day issue, you know, get it written. And I. I couldn't really believe it. I just said it because I had to say something and it was the only thing I had. And anyway, I got out the meeting, called Mum and my mother. You know, I think it was a shock. She obviously didn't know that I'd been sort. Reclaiming the egg, you know, because she wasn't there with me in those situations. So I think for me to suddenly blurt out to her that I. I was going to do this and I was going to tell Dad's story in the Sunday Times, she reacted quite negatively to it and that. And again, you know, she was always my biggest champion. So that was. That was strange. I understand it now. Obviously, at the time I was just a bit like, oh, why can't you be happy for me? But obviously, you know, I was opening
- [23:00]
A
a Pandora, dredging up some very difficult times for her.
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B
Exactly. Opening up a Pandora's egg, you know, for her. E. Yes, exactly. So then that writing that first piece took me back to the Kicinski Shop and just started me off. You know, I wrote the piece and we didn't really think about where it was, and I didn't really think about where it was. You know, I was just quite happy that I was telling his story and that people would begin to know a bit about this incredible creation. You know, it's so beautiful and so sad to me that it was lost, but slowly, over time, it sort of began to obsess me.
- [23:40]
A
So you started. You thought, this is a bigger story. I'm going to trace this, I'm going to write a book. So you went from the first sketch and then started a physical hunt, really. I would describe it in the book because you wanted to see the craftsmen and meet the craftsmen who had made it to find out who they were. And sometimes that was very hard because you turn up places and some of them hadn't been paid, had they?
- [24:05]
B
Oh, my goodness.
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A
And thought you were coming to. Actually they wanted to see you because they wanted payments. All these years later.
- [24:11]
B
Oh, gosh. I mean, somehow I found, you know, when I was sort of being more speculative, I would say that the egg, Kicinsky's egg, was cursed, you know, And I found that every time I turned a corner, there would be more drama and strife and grief associated with this egg. So, yes, part of my quest was, was, you know, once I sort of got into the nitty gritty and the. The question of where it was, you know, I knew it wasn't in Britain and I'd been told various things. I was told at one point that it had been melted down. I was told that it was locked in a warehouse in a safe, safe place somewhere. And then I was told that it was, you know, maybe in Japan. And it was all just very confusing and I had no idea of how I was going to go about that. So in the meantime, to get kind of closer to it, it. I decided, as you said, to connect with the craftsmen that made it slightly in the hope that they might know what had happened to it, but also to understand the craft and to begin to reconnect as well with that side of my life. Because, you know, as a child, my dad would take me into the workshop and, you know, I just knew there was a workshop and it was this magical place. And then after the egg and, you know, my father passed away when I was 20, so. So, you know, for a long time I'd had absolutely no connection with the jewelry world at all. And I really floundered when I started out. I didn't know where to Start. And like you said, eventually someone that used to work with my dad said, look. Well, he used to work in the workshop, Sannet and Stein, and they made all the jewelry for Kaczynski. So I went to him first, Peter Stein, he's the son of the founder. Lovely man, been so helpful. I went to him and I was like, so, you know, you guys made the egg? And he said. Said, no, we didn't. Your father made some bad decisions. And I was like, oh, dear, here we go. He told me that dad had sort of decided that it needed a specialist objet workshop, if you like. And that was Leo de Vroomin, who
- [26:08]
A
was who, I remember.
- [26:09]
B
Yes, yes. A Dutch jeweler who's recently passed away, I think, sadly. Yeah, really sad. Very talented, very ambitious. I mean, I actually think that even though the, you know, the relationship ended up turning sour, I think my father probably saw something of himself in Leo. They were both young, they were very creative. They like to do things differently. They like to rip up the jewellery rule book. And de Vroomin had built a reputation, you know, for his jewellery, but also his enameling, and enameling being so central to the creation. So my father took the egg to him in its design, initial design phase, and his workshop in Clerkenwell, part of the Clerkenwell workshops, and they worked on it together. You know, my father had final sign off Davrooman's workshop built it all the different stages of the manufacturing process, which, you know, we can talk about, but there are just bits like the gold singing when it's on the lathe and the sort of intricate guilloche engraving. So beautiful. But when I reached out to Leo, I got a reply to my initial inquiry, despite my mother and Peter telling me, both telling me that this was a bad, bad idea and I should steer clear of Leo Devroomin and everything. You know, the. The relationship had gone sour. But obviously, being a journalist, the more someone tells you not to pull a thread, you pull the thread. So I secretly sent an email to Devrooman, secret in that I didn't tell my mum. And he replied. And I was like, look, this is great. He wants to talk. You know, surely he will be happy to talk about this amazing thing that he made. I mean, you know, it's incredible. But when I got there to his showroom in Victoria, I sort of realized immediately his manner was a bit abrupt. And then we went down to his office and then the buzzer rang and there was a friend of his there who. And I was like, oh, I'm being ambushed here. And it was quite early on in my research, so I didn't, you know, he sort of said, your father didn't make the egg. Paul Kicinski had nothing to do with the egg. You know, the room in my workshop made it. And by the way, I never got paid and can you pay me £750,000? To which I, you know, was a lot to take in. I was very confused and upset. You know, I think in the book, I say, it went from me sort of expecting a kind of warm, nostalgic conversation to just every art. Me just saying, oh, dear, oh, dear, over and over, until eventually he allowed me to sort of, you know, beat a retreat. But. But he was very disgruntled. I think maybe there was some legitimacy to some of what he was saying. But I think, fundamentally, if the egg had been a success, the success that they all really wanted it to be, because despite his anger and antipathy towards my father, you know, he said, I don't like to hear the Kicinsky name. He didn't want to be connected to the egg, he didn't want to have any. Anything to do with it. Which I found unusual because part of his complaint was that my dad had taken all the credit.
- [29:12]
A
Hadn't Leo de Vrooman tried to Hallmark it with his name?
- [29:16]
B
Yes. So basically the. So they were sort of working, you know, they were. They were on a shared project. And I can imagine that the beginning, it was all quite. You know, there was a lot of. It was all secret from everyone else and the trade barely knew about it and it was a big deal. And then the first signs that things were going. Going wrong was when, yes, my father got wind that. That de Vrooman had tried to Hallmark the egg, basically, which means putting his stamp on it, as I'm sure, you know, and sure the listeners do too. But there are a series of marks that go on every piece of jewellery that's made in Britain. And one of them is the maker's mark, which is the Kicinsky mark. Apparently, when my father found out about this, he was utterly furious. Jumped in his Aston Martin, drove from, you know, West London to Clerkenwell, sort of foot on the pedal, you know, to confront de Vrooman. Now, actually, from the version of the book that you've read, at the last minute, I actually found out exactly what happened, because for ages I was, you know, I asked everybody, I said, look, you know, did this actually happen? Was my dad just overact, you know, being over the top? Or did Devroomin actually put his hallmark inside. And I spoke to, you know, fellow goldsmiths who said, no, he did. And I spoke to associates of my dad who said, well, Paul certainly thought he did and why would he make it up? And it was quite a common thing in the trade that manufacturers wanted credit. You know, even Faberge got criticized for not giving his workmen enough credit. At the sort of 11th hour for the print deadline for the final version, I got an email from the daughter of one of the craftsmen and she said that it's confirmed that all the names of the craftsmen were engraved on the back of a drawer. And then they hid it under velvet lining so it could never be removed. So right at the back, under the. I think you pull out the drawer and then you see the lining and under that lining is the name of every. Every craftsman.
- [31:09]
A
Still, that's amazing.
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B
So good, isn't it?
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A
That's so exciting.
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B
I know, it's delighted.
- [31:13]
A
So fantastic.
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B
But.
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A
So you. You encountered these difficulties. You explain the difficulties your father was facing that Leo de Vrooman said he quoted a price for £50,000 to make it. The bill came in for double the quote that had money, had to be found. You really describe your father's rising panic. He then develops an addiction to Benolin, obviously, to try and calm him down, and Benolin bottles all over his office, which sounds valuable, but it's not. It's this rising panic. You sense it. Then you talk about the motor that is meant to open the doors and twist the galleries around the circular galleries to turn. And that never actually really works, does it?
- [32:03]
B
No. So there was the hallmarking Ferrari, but I think they sort of got over that and got with the job. And then our girl got involved and the pink diamonds came on board and everyone got very excited about that and the design got bigger and bigger again.
- [32:15]
A
So that made it more expensive.
- [32:17]
B
Yes, exactly. And then the last thing they did, which maybe in retrospect they shouldn't have done first, but also, you know, the motor and mechanism, they weren't engineers, they were jewelers, they were goldsmiths. The craftsmanship of the egg was utterly dazzling. But the electronics, I think they were ahead of their time, if we're being kind, shall we say the design outstripped really what was technologically possible, because my father was so wedded to this idea that these big gold doors would be hinged and open and obviously gold is so heavy, so dense and so heavy, you know, I mean, if he'd gone for sort of a used bronze or brass or something, that would have actually worked much better. There's a reason that people don't use gold, gold in machinery. Apart from the price, however, it wouldn't have then passed the assay office test of being pure gold. They couldn't have marked it as a pure gold product. So it had to be made of gold. And yes, basically it didn't work. The doors would either judder open, the motor would fail or they'd press the power button and it just wouldn't open. So this was a disaster. I mean, you know, the boat was 12 days before the bar fair where it was going to be on display to the trade fair. So it was trade first at BAAL Fair or the Basel Fair, and then, and then the VNA and a film crew had come over from Australia from the Argyle Mine because they'd been documenting its creation. So they were all there. My dad was having to pay extra to put all this film crew up in a luxury hotel at his own expense and the thing wouldn't work. So he was getting absolutely furious with de Vrooman and at this point, the tensions over the unpaid invoice. So from what I could work out, trying to be as fair as possible journalistically to both sides, I, you know, I read solicitor's letters and it seemed to be that De Vrooman had decided that my father owed him more money because he thought that he should be paid a sort of proportionate amount to the price of the egg. And his beef, if you like, was that my father had told him the egg would be marketed at £3 million and now Paul was marketing it at £7 million, a figure which he made up. My dad made that up. It slipped out during an interview with a TV reporter, much to my mother's sort of, of don't say that frustration. And then it was out there and it just got repeated and repeated in the media and it became a 7 million pound egg and that was it. So Davrooman felt that he'd been cheated out of, you know, and it had obviously gone over budget and over time, as these things obviously do, because they hadn't built a massive golden diamond egg before. So tensions were at a peak. And as far as I can work out effectively, De Vrooman said, I'm not going to allow you, you to take the egg to the Basel Fair unless you pay me. So my father felt that he had no choice but to kidnap the egg, you know, with the help of a friendly policeman. And they, and he was lucky they didn't actually have to break in. Thank Goodness. So they had us. They held an emergency summit that weekend at our house and decided what they were going to do. You know, my dad sort of holding court with pistachios in one hand, benolin in the other, Vodka orange and. And spliff sometimes too. Then on Monday morning at the crack of dawn, he still had this key to de Vrooman's workshop because he'd been going in and out all the time during production. So they let themselves in and there were apparently a few members of the team there, early doors. So the policeman just had to kind of, you know, do his policeman best and be like, we're here to get the egg. We're here to get the big E, I think he called it. Put it in, shoved it in some Harrods carrier bags, some plastic green carrier bags, and off they went in the back of an old police car, speeding up Roseberry Avenue in Clerkenwell with my dad crouched in the back holding the egg, being like, hurry up. Paranoid that de Vroomin was going to come after him, basically. I mean, when I hear about these stories, I'm like, my father was absolutely crackers, you know, I mean, I suppose I can be a bit too. But, yes, hilarious. So they. They kidnapped the egg back and they got it safe. I know, it's ridiculous. Got it safely.
- [36:22]
A
I don't think Carl Faberge had any of these issues.
- [36:26]
B
No, probably not. No. It's a bit more Monty Python. Faulty towers in, even, if you like. They got it safely over to Switzerland, put it on display. But then, basically, you know, it was a huge success. And my mother still says, she's like, I do not know how we got away with it, you know, because they had to jam the doors open, it turned round, but the doors did not open and close. But no one really noticed. I mean, it's amazing. He got away with it for a very long time. And poor Leo de Vroomin was left kind of, you know, I mean, it is, you know, it was awful. I mean, eventually his business went, you know, went fast because they hadn't taken on any other work, I assume, in that 10 months. And. And according to him, he never made another Objet dart ever again. Absolutely burned. And I did find that, you know, some of the people that worked on it were very forthcoming, but quite a few of them still refused to talk to me, really, even, you know, three decades.
- [37:21]
A
So it was quite brave of you to go into that environment.
- [37:24]
B
I think, being a journalist, you know, you just. You. You do, don't you? For the sake of telling the story and, and not just that, I think, you know, I can sort of say that. But actually, I suppose if I'm being honest about it and emotional, you know, I really, I've obviously felt compelled to tell my dad's story, whatever the cost.
- [37:44]
A
So the costs of the eggs rising and rising. And he's got a couple of potential buyers in mind. One is the Sultan of Brunei, the
- [37:52]
B
other, wait for it, is Donald Trump. Donald J. Trump, who loves bling and gold more than, you know, Mr. President Malcolm Forbes as well. But unfortunately, Malcolm Forbes died unexpectedly as
- [38:07]
A
he was a great Faberge collector. So why did he think Donald Trump might buy it?
- [38:12]
B
Well, I think we all know how much Donald Trump loves everything gold. And we all know that, you know, he has a lot of money. I think the Sultan Ibna was the number one target. But yes, Donald Trump was number two. So they went to New York, basically, the Egg, after the VNA went on tour, it went to Tokyo and then it went to New York. My mum went to New York with him. They flew on Concord, they took friends with them. You know, it wasn't a holiday, but they were trying to have a little bit of time, I must say, as well. Actually, whenever the egg flew, obviously it could never be put in the hole. Far too valuable to carry it. Well, it had, it, it had three seats in first class. You know, my parents were either sort of in business or, you know, even, God forbid for them, relegated to economy. And the egg was up there in first class, you know, spread across three seats with its bodyguards, obviously. And sometimes it flew by the name of Mr. Egg on its, on its boarding pass. But yeah, so they went over to New York. There was a very sort of glitzy exhibition at Christie's. You know, all the heart, all the good and glorious and not so well behaved of New York's high society were invited to this party to see it. You know, they stayed in fantastic hotels, they did interviews with all the, you know, it was on Good Morning America and Conde Nast magazines and, you know, in the papers, etc. Everywhere the egg went, it got an amazing reaction. But they would, you know, but a buyer would not be found.
- [39:41]
A
And of course, as you say in the book, there's put buyers off, in fact, because people don't want to buy something that the world's seen necessarily at that level, that level of buyer.
- [39:51]
B
Absolutely. And you know, I mean, it's sort of, I think it's, it's sort of semi baffling really, as to. Because my father Knew that, I mean he'd been a jeweler all his life.
- [40:01]
A
He couldn't resist the glory, couldn't resist
- [40:03]
B
the lure of it. You know, once it started, you know, he actually, you can see on Wogan he's nervous, but he's also, also fizzing, fizzing with energy. You know, he sort of, he enjoyed the spotlight, he enjoyed being the center of attention and making jokes. I mean in an interesting way in that he was. Whenever we went on family holidays, he would always film everything, but he'd always be behind the lens. But, but yes. So, you know, sort of lapping up this life. And I think, you know, they had this lunch which Mum still talks about at Windows on the World, which used to be in the Twin Tower Towers, all this restaurant in the world I suppose it was at the time, with this beautiful view of Manhattan. Went up in the lift and there's this a cappella group serenading them. And she always says at that point, you know, she knew, she felt like they were on top of the world really, but with this shadow in the background that actually, you know, despite the headlines, despite the glitzy party, despite the adoration, the egg still had not sold. She said at one point, you know, know, short of walking up and down Broadway with a sign on our back saying buy an egg, there wasn't much more they could have done to try and get a buyer. But Donald Trump, you know, would not be wooed, sadly.
- [41:17]
A
So the egg didn't sell and actually it brought down Kaczynski.
- [41:22]
B
Yes. And so also at this time, Carol, probably important to mention that when I sort of talk about it in a, in, you know, if I have to sum it all up in a sentence, I will say that the egg destroyed, you know, a hundred year old business. It ruined my parents marriage and then obviously ultimately sort of broke my father himself. But so my father's attention, if you like, had strayed by this point onto a young woman who was connected to the pink diamond dealers. There was a diamond dealer called M. Vayner limited in Hatton Garden and they had connected my father with Argyle because they, they represented Argyle around, you know, they helped our girl sell their diamonds around the world and also advised them on polishing and cutting. She, Anna, worked in a jewelry shop that was on their premises. So my father had come across her, their paths had crossed and you know, we don't know exactly, you know, the timings of when exactly it turned into more than a friendship are unclear. But you know, very much by New York, my, you know, it had. And my mum could tell he was distracted. She didn't know why, and she was really hoping this quality time would bring them back together. And I think that sort of collision of, you know, increasing turbulence in your professional life and then also feeling unsettled in your personal life, those two things can become a very kind of really eat away at you, I think. And I. I can really feel. I can almost feel my father's energy.
- [42:47]
A
I think, actually, you write it very well. They come. Comes off the pages. You feel that. That sense of desperation and spinning out of control and he can't keep all these plates in the air. And in 1991, Kicinsky sold to Mrs. Musayev, who We've had on the podcast.
- [43:02]
B
Oh, have you? Mrs.
- [43:04]
A
So, you know, anyone who wants background information, we can listen to Mrs. Musef. And also we've done a special Faberge feature as well, so. So Mrs. Musef buys Kuchinski. And at that point, you don't know where the egg's gone because all the stock is owned by the Mossayes.
- [43:20]
B
Yeah. So Argyle took the egg. It was very odd, really. It was quite disorienting. I mean, there was a lot of disorientating things happening. Obviously, you know, the business disappeared, my father left my mother for the, you know, other woman, and the egg vanished. And all I was told was that it was languished, you know, in the Kicinsky workshop. There was no more money to fix it. And then our guy who had put $2 million worth of stones in the egg, you know, they took it. And there wasn't much my dad could do or say about that at that time. You know, I think he was devastated, but that was it. He had actually hoped that Argyll might buy Kicinsky at one point, and then that would have allowed him to keep trying to sell the egg. Yeah, that was one of his sort of cherished dreams. But obviously that didn't. Didn't happen. Yes, it vanished. And then. Then, obviously after he passed away when I was 20, and we stopped having any real contact with his side of the family, I had absolutely no idea. My mum just obviously didn't want to talk about it because in her eyes, you know, it had stolen her husband, stolen her life. She hated it with a visceral, you know, loathing, basically, that was sort of passed on to us. But, you know, I was always close to my father and forgave him all his sins. You know, maybe that was my folly, but, you know, I just sort of saw it quite simply.
- [44:44]
A
Well, you became Obsessed by the egg, too, in your way, which was to find out where it was.
- [44:48]
B
Yes, exactly. And I think I wanted to, because I wanted to understand, instead of just accepting that this had happened and it was bad, I wanted to understand it and therefore find my own peace, I think, you know, get answers to questions, no matter how. How painful that might be. Yeah. So the egg vanished, and then I had abs. No one had any idea. When I wrote the first article about it, I reached out to Argylle, and they told me it was in Japan. And they did actually say, you know, that it was outside Tokyo in this sort of faux French chateau, which I thought was an amazing detail, but then that was all they would tell me. And then over the years, I spoke to different people in the diamond industry, in the jewelry world. And like I said, I got all these conflicting. I remember very clearly. So I got contacted by someone. I reached out. I think I'd reached out to him for an interview or to talk. He was a diamond dealer in America, and I was just sort of trying to find anyone that might have had. He had some connection to Argyle. So I was trying to find people that might have a clue about the egg's whereabouts. Anyway, he responded. He was in America, said to call him quite late. I remember being in the boardroom of my. Of the magazine I was working at at the time. And anyway, it was a very emotional conversation. He told me all this stuff about my dad, that my dad had been a kind of pen pal to him. Him that he tried to sell the egg unsuccessfully. You know, people had been like, oh, that old egg from Oz, you know, we don't want that. And he said, oh, you know, look, I'll try and find out what happened to it. Okay, great. I was all so excited. Oh, my God. And then spoke to him a few days later, and he said, look, I've spoken to my contacts at Argyle. Forget about it. It's been melted down. And I was so upset and think I, like, I cried, burst into tears. And it's totally so strange. I mean, it's an inanimate object, Carol. Really know. It's beautiful, but it is an inanimate object. But, yeah, it was like I was losing my dad again, you know, bizarrely sort of strange. That's like I've invested all this emotion in. In this egg. And then I spoke to someone else and, you know, a craftsman, and they told me that they heard that it was in. Something had been taken apart, the stones had been taken out of it to be sold, which fairly logical and it was all locked up in a, you know, different bits of it. So, yes, there were lots of conflicting rumors. So, you know, I'm not casting aspersions on. On Argyle. They were very helpful to me many times. But also, you know, the relation between our family and them. Had that gone sour as well?
- [47:14]
A
Yes, yes. You know, so nobody was particularly helpful or feeling like they wanted to be,
- [47:18]
B
and I didn't know who to trust.
- [47:20]
A
So then you find out that it's gone to an art museum.
- [47:24]
B
Well, yeah. So I kept trying to work around it. I kept telling myself, well, if I don't find the egg, what I'm looking for really, is an understanding of my father and an understanding of my family, where I come from, our heritage. If I can't tell my father's story with that, you know, fully, at least maybe I can tell the story of the house of Kaczynski and I can reclaim a bit of the jewelry world and my knowledge of it and also my Jewishness, which, you know, we were sort of totally slipped out of our being part of our lives, you know, because we technically aren't Jewish, because my mother's not Jewish. Yes. I kept telling myself there were other. There were other ends to the story, basically, until I got made redundant and I had sort of, you know, one of those brief periods where you have a sort of a bit of money and you don't, you know, can briefly pursue your own interests. And I just thought, right, okay, okay, I'm not getting any younger now or never gonna give this my absolute shot. And also, I think, you know, having children of your own, you know, you want to be able to tell them the story of Grandpa Paul and his giant gold egg, and at least for them to know that they could go and see it one day. And I wanted to see it, you know, I just. Just really wanted to see it. You know, I knew that I, you know, I know that I'll never see him again, but I really, really just somehow felt if I could see the egg, I would, I don't know, find peace. Anyway, so I gave it my best shot. And being a journalist, we are quite good at talking our way into things. So I was told by the. I tracked down the policeman that had helped my dad hijack kidnap whatever, the egg, and, you know, he's obviously retired now and sort of said, you know, how would one go about finding a high value piece of art like this? And he just went, oh, Kroll will help you find it. And I was like, like, oh, who are crow? So International investigators. I was like, oh, that sounds difficult and probably expensive. So I wrote that off and every time I would talk to my family about it, they'd be like, you're never going to find it. It's a golden needle in a haystack. And also, you know, stronger than that, why do you want to find it? So part of it as well was not just the difficulty, the mission impossible of actually where is the egg? It was the emotional of, like. Like, do I actually want to find it, need and want to go there? Yeah. Because I did sense that doing so would, you know, as we said before, would dredge up a lot of stuff, reopen old wounds. But I decided to. And I sent this email to Kroll and then I got an email back and people always say, oh, you get a lucky break. But at the time, it doesn't feel like a lucky break because from my eyes, I've been searching for this thing for, like, you know, nearly a decade. But it was. So it turned out that they had forwarded my inquiry onto their Singapore office and Tokyo office. And one of their executives in the Singapore office, he happened to know the person that had brokered the sale of the egg to the museum. He was a friend.
- [50:28]
A
Amazing.
- [50:28]
B
I like. So I got this email back and it said, we've located it, it's in. You know, it's going to be on display in a few months time. It's in. It's in Tokyo, it's in an art museum. And obviously then they didn't give me the full details because that was followed by a quote for 16 and a half thousand pounds, which I was like, not gonna tell my husband about that. But, you know, that was the most. The closest I'd got. I'd had so many dead ends. I'd come so close by that point. I'd spoken to this very nice person who used to work at Argyll. He almost got me the name of the person that had bought it. And then he said, no, no, actually, the bill. This billionaires died. You know, he died. I spoke to someone else who was a. A gemstone dealer based in Dubai who told me that he'd been and seen the egg. Don't know if that was true. Might have been no idea. So I, for me, I'd been down so many dead ends. To finally have a breakthrough was just increasing. It was just before Christmas as well, so it felt like a Christmas miracle.
- [51:26]
A
So this was the National Museum of Nature and Science.
- [51:28]
B
Yeah. So at that point I didn't know that, that. So I just had this tip and then I was like, well, I can't, you know, I can't afford to pay crows, so I'm gonna have to find another way. So I tried to do some, my own research with a, you know, another researcher who wasn't a sort of high level investigator. And you know, and they were really, you know, they did a great job. I'm super grateful. But we had like a spreadsheet. It turns out there's like 600 art museums in the Tokyo area that it could be. And they spoke Japanese. So they were calling them up and they just said, no, we don't know about it, we never haven't heard anything. So I'd, I'd come so close. But sort of months went by and there was just nothing. And I was aware actually the original message had said it was actually going to go on display this year. So I thought I had time, I suppose, but equally, it was really frustrating. Anyway, eventually I sort of did I go, I must have cracked and went back to Crop Kroll. Just thought, I'm just gonna see what happens and not think about the money. Yeah. So then I had a meeting with Kroll and they said, look, we'll go and see what we. More we can find out. We'll go to our contact. Now we know that you're happy for us to use your name and say who you are, that you're the creator's daughter. I'm sure we'll. That will give us a bit more leverage. Anyway, they came back and it turned out that the Egg Yen wasn't going on display two years in advance in 2025, which would be now. Actually, it was going on display in like through two or three weeks time. And it wasn't in an art museum, which is why they'd all said no. It was actually in the. Basically the equivalent of the Natural History Museum, which is quite an incongruous setting, you know, I mean, it's actually there like turn a corridor past a massive cabinet of taxidermy animals, you know, Dodge under a sort of fighter jet and a meteorite that's hanging from the ceiling in the space exhibition. Anyway, it had been donated by very generous billionaires to the museum just at that moment.
- [53:23]
A
How amazing. So you had to get out there pretty damn quick.
- [53:26]
B
Yes, I had to go to Tokyo, basically. Suddenly I was going to Tokyo. I mean, fantastic, but. And I couldn't really believe it was happening. Just when you think you're sort of, you know, you're nearly on the plane and it's all Working out there was a last minute spanner in the works. I suddenly got a message which said that, you know, there was a problem, problem with the museum, and Mr. Miyawaki was basically going to cancel my meeting with the egg. They really kindly allowed me. So they were putting it on display for sort of a two or three week period. And then they were going to have to lock it away again because the cost of having a public display, you know, while they raised money for a permanent display. But they were very willing to accommodate me on a day when the museum was shut so that I could have a private viewing. Amazing. Yes. Basically, they got spooked because the other researcher that wasn't Kroll had contacted the museum independently. Totally like, you know, not their fault at all. I should have probably told them, but I, you know, anyway, whatever happened, they called up and said they were acting for Serena Kicinski. The museum were like, no, no, Kroll are acting for Serena Kicinski. We know all about Serena Kicinski. And suddenly they thought that I was a bad actor, that I was an impersonator, an international jewel thief, even Carol. And that was it. It was off with sort of, you know, days to go before I was due to get on the plane. And I was absolutely, as you can imagine, beside myself. And just sort of remember again, I was sitting at my desk in the office in the newsroom, and I was like, the room was sort of spinning. I was like, what am I gonna do? It's a panic. And then obviously I was like, well, look, you know, I am me. You know, I can give you my birth certificate, my passport. And they were like, no, no, that's not good enough, because those are easily forgeable. And if you are an international jewel thief, of course you'll be able to forge a passport and a birth certificate. So that was really difficult. And I was like, right, okay, can't use my passport, can't use my birth certificate. How am I going to prove I'm me? Contacted the embassy, the British embassy in Japan, and was like, ask them if they could help me in any way, sort of. They were like, this is very unusual. In the end, I managed to. Basically, Kroll weren't going to come with me. They weren't, you know, Tad, he was from the Singapore office, you know, they weren't going to come over for it. But in the end, they decided the safest thing to calm the museum's nerve was that Kroll would arrange to come with me.
- [55:44]
A
So you got on the plane. So how did it feel when you walked in the room and saw it.
- [55:50]
B
Well, at that point, the one missing part of the puzzle still was the identity of the Japanese billionaire who'd bought it. I still didn't know their name or anything about it, them, because, you know, my father, when he was making it, he never. He never really imagined it wouldn't sell. I think it was the biggest shock to him because he loved it so much and he saw so much of his own self and ego reflected back in it. And the fact that nobody loved it as much as he did, you know, he never really got over that. So it was quite important to me to find out who had bought it and why and, you know, and to talk to them to find out where it had been living all these years. You know, the next. The final, sort of final chapter in its story. I'd been sent a bit of Biog, some background on the family. And so for the first time I started to read about them. And it turns out the Mabuchis are the. They're the world experts in teeny, tiny motor motors.
- [56:51]
A
So it's kind of fate that you needed. They needed a motor. And here were the motor experts. I couldn't believe them.
- [56:59]
B
I couldn't believe it. I. I wondered at that point because I didn't know the story of how they'd come to buy it. I. I wondered if perhaps, you know, in desperation, our girl had been so desperate to fix it that they'd gone to them and asked them for their specialism. Because, yeah, they are like, if anybody in the whole world could have fixed my father's egg, it was the Mabuchis. So basically. So I was on the plane, I was incredib. You know, couldn't wait to be in Tokyo because I knew the egg had gone there previously. It was a city I'd always wanted to visit. So exciting. I love the way it blends sort of futurism and tradition, which I actually think is very similar to the Kicinsky's egg. You know, it's a real. It's very modern, It's. It's big. It's, you know, state of the art electronics as they were at the time, and historic as well. You know, tribute to Faberge. So, yeah, I was super excited. Very nervous actually, as well. I found out that the Mabuchi family were going to be there. And that meant so much to me that they wanted to meet me, that they wanted to meet the creator's daughter. And also that I could find out, you know, what had happened to the egg and hear its story. And so actually, you know, the original sort of tip that I'd been given from Argyll did turn out to have truth to wasn't quite right. But the Mabuchis had bought it in 2002. And then they had a very grand guest house, which was in the Versailles style, all gold. Donald Trump would love it. From the. From the pictures I've seen, all gold and marble and very fitting for the egg. And so it had been there. And then Reiko Mabuchi had been trying to sell it for a decade to avoid. Because they have massive inheritance tax in Japan. Well, she said that basically, she asked me if I knew of this Japanese kind of karmic tradition called Gwen, and sometimes it can involve objects. And she said that she had had a eureka moment when she realized that she didn't want to sell the egg, she wanted to give it to the nation. And that happened in June 2022, just at the point where I got made redundant and really doubled down on my search, you know, and we had this. I mean, I really felt a strong connection with them. They were such wonderful people. People. They took me to the Bulgari Hotel, which was a lovely kind of nod to the jewelry heritage of the whole thing. And. And we've stayed in touch and. And I have to say, we got to the threshold and my heart did sink a bit because it was a very underwhelming room. You know, it had sort of gray checkerboard carpets. It looked like a conference room. There was like a screen. Apparently, it was the most secure room in the museum. And there were these sort of wooden boards that told a bit of the story. But actually. Actually they omitted my father's name. You know, he'd sort of been written out of its history, and that was very conflicting. So I sort of walked towards it. There were all these ropes up, like an invisible crowd that wasn't there. There had been for the public launch. It was quite a big thing. But when I visited, obviously it was empty, which just added to the sort of stillness and unease of the whole thing. And they opened it up for me, and it was there, and it was so beautiful. You know, obviously, I'd stared at pictures endlessly, sketches of it, everything, but to see it there under the lights. And then they opened the cabinet and I got to touch it again, like I did when I was a little girl. And I took my fingers across it, and our name is carved on the surface.
- [60:30]
A
Amazing.
- [60:31]
B
And I just thought, you know what? However you choose to tell this story, our name will always be that there like forever. It's part of it. And I felt incredibly proud and. And I wish that my mum and my sisters had been there with me as well.
- [60:43]
A
Well, they can go back, can't they? I can see the emotion in your eyes as you say it. So was it worth it? That sort of 10 year search culminating in that moment?
- [60:55]
B
It definitely was. I mean, you know, it was sort of a crazy thing I suppose to do, but I. It taught me a lot about myself, you know, standing in front of it, looking at it, trying to understand. I did understand why he wanted to make it. It was so beautiful.
- [61:14]
A
But you are unflinching in his. The flaws, the. The mistakes, his character. You were unflinching in the way you. You showed that. That must have been hard to write about your father.
- [61:27]
B
It was. But I think, think it also taught me about myself because I can see some of that in me, you know, And I suppose you want to learn from their mistakes. If you could identify it. Know that some of that kind of slightly restless recklessness is possibly hard coded into you. But you know, you can see that actually, because I know my father regretted leaving, you know, losing his family basically. And you know, he wasn't in a good place place. He died in a car crash several days after his 50th birthday in Spain. Sort of very sudden, unexpected. But he was unhappy. You know, he still dreamed that one day he would somehow be given Argyle would let him find. Sell the egg, that he would find a buyer and go back to them, triumphal and say, look, you know, I did it.
- [62:18]
A
In all your research and immersing yourself in the jewelry industry, is there a part of you, you that wishes you inherited Kicinsky as it was and you were in the jewelry world? Or are you happy that you're the journalist that found the trail of your father and got to the egg?
- [62:35]
B
Super. It's really interesting, isn't it? Sometimes I. I have started to question why I don't write more about jewellery. Actually. Maybe I should have you as an inspiration, Carol. I would certainly like to buy some of the vintage pieces such as the coral and on onyx necklace that Rihanna wore to Paris fashion week in 2022. So, you know, it would be nice, that would be nice to have some of that at my disposal, I'm not gonna lie. And maybe, you know, maybe we can bring it back someday.
- [63:01]
A
Well, congratulations. It's a. It's a great book, a great read, particularly for people who are interested in jewellery. But for anyone, I mean the passion and the obsession and you bring it to life really well. So thank you for sharing it with
- [63:15]
B
us, thank you for reading and thank you for talking to me. Carol.
- [63:23]
A
Thank you for listening. For this and other episodes of if Jules Could Talk, please go to our website, carolwalton.com do share it any way you can and we love to have a rating and a comment. The book of the podcast if Jules Could Talk will be out in paperback very soon, so keep your eyes eyes out for that. I'm on Instagram. And to hear more about our sponsors, Please go to www.leibish.com. If jules could talk with carole walton is produced by natasha cowan. Music and editing by tim thornton graphics by scott bentley illustration by jordi lavalley lander.