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[00:00]
Adair Shepherd
ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more.
[00:08]
Carrington Clarke
Prices shift, petrol jumps, shares fall, a company cuts jobs, and suddenly the business story is everyone's story.
[00:16]
Alan Kohler
I'm Alan Kohler.
[00:17]
Carrington Clarke
And I'm Carrington Clarke. From Monday to Thursday on ABC Business Daily, we break down the biggest stories in business, finance and the economy and why they matter.
[00:28]
Alan Kohler
Then on Fridays, I go deeper on that's Business. The people making decisions, taking risks and shaping where the economy goes next.
[00:35]
Carrington Clarke
Find it all in the ABC Business Daily feed on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:42]
Alan Kohler
This podcast was produced on the lands of the Awabakal and Gadigal people. G', day, Matt Bevin here, this is if you're listening. If there's one type of story that I love and I wish we could cover more on this show, it's ones about micronations. The stories of people who plant their feet say I've had enough. My backyard is now the sovereign nation of New Backyardia. On last week's episode we looked at one particular micronation, the state of Free Lebanon, an unrecognised, relatively short lived Israeli puppet state. It got me thinking about my all time favourite plucky underdog micronation. It's called Sealand. And when I mentioned it briefly in an episode last year, a lot of you wrote in to express that you shared my enthusiasm. So here we are today. I'm finally telling the story of the radio pirate turned actual pirate who declared himself the prince of a rusting gun platform in the North Sea. I'm joined again by producer Adair Shepherd. Hi Adair.
[01:49]
Adair Shepherd
Hello. Yes, we got a lot of emails about this. There's a lot of Sealand fans amongst the if you're listeners,
[02:00]
Alan Kohler
So dare. Have you seen the movie the Boat that rocked from 2009?
[02:06]
Adair Shepherd
Yes. Bill Nighy. I love that movie.
[02:09]
Alan Kohler
I hate that movie.
[02:11]
Michael Bates
Oh no,
[02:13]
Alan Kohler
the thing was, I didn't hate the movie while watching it. I mean I did a little bit. I kind of. It's an interesting movie. It's based on pirate radio and it's based on these guys being off the coast of the UK with broadcasting rock music into the UK illegally.
[02:30]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[02:31]
Alan Kohler
The problem with it is that there's no plot. Right. It's kind of like, isn't it cool that there were these pirate radio guys and then there's a storm and the boat sinks and that's the whole plot of the story.
[02:45]
Adair Shepherd
That's true.
[02:46]
Alan Kohler
But the reason I hate this movie is because the amount of drama that there actually was between the pirate radio station was extraordinary. And they didn't use any of it, any of the true stories of pirate radio. So I'm gonna tell you a true story of pirate radio.
[03:09]
Adair Shepherd
What the boat that rock should have been. Okay, I'm excited.
[03:11]
Alan Kohler
And the premise of the story is true in that people were really, really annoyed about the fact that other parts of the world had rock commercial radio.
[03:20]
Adair Shepherd
Why didn't they have it?
[03:21]
Alan Kohler
Basically, because the BBC had a full monopoly on radio broadcast. There was no other broadcaster in the uk. Oh, wow.
[03:27]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[03:28]
Alan Kohler
And it was Illeg to have another radio station in the uk. And so because it's Europe, various people in the UK would listen to radio coming from the mainland and coming from these illegal offshore radio broadcasters who were broadcasting from boats with big transmitters on top of them parked out in the ocean. Now, those boats were problematic and kind of really difficult to live on, difficult to broadcast from. And so off the coast of the Thames, So if you can imagine, London, you know, is on the Thames River. The Thames runs east and then it dumps out into the North Sea in kind of a bay area. And in that bay, During World War II, the British were really concerned that the Germans would come and blockade the Thames and stop boats from coming in and out of the Thames. And so they developed these things called Maunsell forts, which are basically giant concrete structures made of prefabricated concrete that they made on land. And they would float out into the Thames Estuary and then basically pull plugs in the bottom of them, they would sink and then sit on the sand bed of the Thames Estuary. So it was basically two giant concrete columns with a platform on top. And you could put guns on the top of the platform and stop anybody from being able to come into the Thames Estuary area and mess around with them at all.
[04:56]
Adair Shepherd
Sure. Seems like a great solution.
[04:57]
Alan Kohler
It was a good solution. And because there were these giant things, These were basically seven storey buildings. They had quarters for like 150 Navy personnel. And after World War II, they had no need for these forts anymore and they abandoned them. So these forts became of interest to. To the pirate radio broadcasters who wanted to be able to use them and not be seasick and not be seasick and not accidentally sink and that kind of thing.
[05:26]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[05:27]
Alan Kohler
And so there were four of these forts and a bloke named Paddy Roy Bates decided that he was going to commandeer one of those forts and set up a radio station on it, which he called Radio Essex.
[05:41]
Michael Bates
We're situated on the Not John Ex naval fort in the or just outside the Thames estuary. About approximately 12 miles from Southend. And we are the most seaward fort of them all. And believe me, sometimes we know it, when first seen from the sea, is from very similar to that of a battleship. So that's what we call it, the old battleship. That's enough about the fort. Our power, well, that's a state secret. Our staff consists. DJ staff.
[06:08]
Alan Kohler
So, I mean, it's pretty loose content, I think.
[06:10]
Adair Shepherd
Very loose, yes.
[06:13]
Alan Kohler
I mean, but you got to remember this is just a bunch of dudes. They would have to go out on a. On a boat to these forts.
[06:20]
Adair Shepherd
They didn't live on the fort.
[06:21]
Alan Kohler
No, they did live on the fort. They had to live out there because it was such a nightmare to get back to shore. But these were just pop music enthusiasts. They would often just be bringing their own record collection.
[06:30]
Adair Shepherd
That's great.
[06:31]
Alan Kohler
And playing it. Like the radio station didn't have its own record collection. It was just the DJs brought their own things and played them on their show. It was very loose. So the thing was that the British government made it clear that they were not going to allow this. And the problem that they had was three of the four forts were technically in British territorial waters. And the ones that were on British territorial waters were the ones that were most easy to get to from the shore because they were quite close to the shore.
[07:00]
Adair Shepherd
Yes.
[07:00]
Alan Kohler
Only one of the four forts was actually in international waters. It had been placed there illegally during World War II. It was against the law for the British government to do what they did. But, you know, it was War ii and so who cares? But nobody really wanted to go there because it was so far out in the ocean.
[07:15]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[07:16]
Alan Kohler
But one of the radio stations, Radio Caroline, went and set up on Fort Ruffs. And Paddy Roy Bates, the owner of Radio Essex, decided that he wanted that fort. Thank you very much. And so he rocked up with his son. On Christmas Eve 1966, when they thought that there wouldn't be very many people from Radio Caroline on the fort, they went in there, they made it clear that it was theirs. Now, they didn't actually beat them up, but they kind of made it clear that they would be. Yeah, they would regret it if they didn't leave the fort. So the folks from Radio Caroline left the fort and From Christmas Eve 1966, Bates had control of this tower and started broadcasting from this tower from Christmas Eve 1966.
[08:01]
Adair Shepherd
I do know one thing about Radio Caroline. Oh, yes, the guy who created radio Caroline, Ronan O'Reilly. He was the manager for George Lazenby, who was the Australian James Bond. And he's the person who convinced George Lazenby to quit after one James Bond film. Because apparently James Bond was going nowhere.
[08:23]
Alan Kohler
Tremendous call.
[08:24]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[08:24]
Alan Kohler
Because, yeah, George Lazenby didn't have a massive career after James Bond.
[08:27]
Adair Shepherd
No. No.
[08:28]
Alan Kohler
So the thing was that the fort was extremely attractive to the other radio stations. They really wanted it. Basically they. They needed to literally fight in order to retain control of the fort. Michael. So this is Paddy Roy Bates, 14 year old son at the time was left on the fort on his own to literally hold the fort on several occasions.
[08:50]
Adair Shepherd
Oh my God.
[08:51]
Alan Kohler
To make sure that nobody took the fort off them. What, he was given a gun?
[08:55]
Adair Shepherd
No.
[08:56]
Alan Kohler
And the materials to make Molotov cocktails. And so whenever a boat that he suspected of being hostile came near the fort, he would fire warning shots and poor boy and lob Molotov cocktails at them into the ocean. Never. They would say, with the intention of actually harming anybody.
[09:15]
Adair Shepherd
Sure.
[09:15]
Alan Kohler
Basically just to tell them to go away.
[09:17]
Adair Shepherd
But it's a 14 year old boy with Molotov cocktails. Yeah. Okay.
[09:20]
Alan Kohler
So Bates had kind of more ideas for the fort than just pirate radio. And as kind of semi as a joke on his wife's birthday the following year in 1967, he declared the creation of the Principality of Sealand, what he described as a sovereign nation. On this fort, which he would be the prince of his wife would be the princess and his son would be another prince and. And the family would be the royal family of the Principality of Sealand. Nobody really paid much attention to this. Everyone kind of thought it was a bit ridiculous. They sent in sort of attempts to basically register themselves as a country with other countries. The thing was that there is kind of a vague framework for what constitutes as a country.
[10:07]
Adair Shepherd
Yes, okay.
[10:08]
Alan Kohler
Which was set by the Montevideo convent. And it's pretty questionable exactly how much legal weight this convention has, but it's kind of used as sort of a four point checklist for is this a country or not? And the four point checklist goes, does it have a permanent population? Does it have a defined territory that is not part of another country? Does it have a government and does it have the capacity to enter into relations with other states?
[10:37]
Adair Shepherd
So they've checked off quite a few of those.
[10:40]
Alan Kohler
Well, kind of. They've kind of got a permanent population in that. You know, they're leaving a 14 year old boy on there.
[10:45]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah, exactly.
[10:46]
Alan Kohler
And sometimes There are radio DJs broadcasting from the tower. They've got a government. It's a One person, government, kind of, but they started sort of printing stamps and making banknotes just for fun. The question is whether this was a defined territory that is not part of another country, not part of another jurisdiction.
[11:04]
Adair Shepherd
Well, it's in international waters, right?
[11:06]
Alan Kohler
Yeah, but you know, it was a fort that was placed there by the British Navy. So is that part of the UK was the question. So on the 6th of May 1968, Michael, the 14 year old boy, did one of the things where he was firing guns and lobbing Molotov cocktails at people. And the British government decided they weren't entirely on board with the fact that this was happening. And they arrested Michael and Roy on firearms off. They were taken to the mainland and put on trial. But the thing was, the judge in the trial said, before we actually have the trial, we need to establish jurisdiction. And after they heard from all the parties, they decided that the British government's jurisdiction did not extend to the fort. Wow. And so therefore there was no trial because apparently there was no law that prohibited people from firing guns and lobbing Molotov cocktails off the edge of this fort in international territory. And so that was a big tick for them that they were basically saying, okay, look, we own this fort, we can, we can do what we like with it. They did apply to the United nations and say, can we please be a member of the United Nations? A UN spokesperson responded with, the United nations is an organization of governments, not gun platforms. The Secretary General has a nut file for such applications.
[12:35]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[12:36]
Alan Kohler
So things on the fort got interesting over the next decade. The BBC created BBC Radio 1, which is their equivalent of Triple J, basically. And so they were broadcasting legal rock music on the mainland and they poached a lot of the DJs from pirate radio radio stations to come and be on Radio 1. And kind of that was the end of pirate radio. They also then subsequently allowed commercial broadcasting in the early 1970s. And so commercial radio stations, legal commercial radio stations, started propping up on the mainland. There was really no need for pirate radio. And so what is the point of this platform now and how are they going to make any money out of it and how are they going to keep it above water? You might say, haha, very good. The Bates family, Paddy and Michael, were very determined to hold onto it because they kind of saw it as this family project. Now they spent the next decade trying to make the new nation more livable, even though the fact it had no electricity, no water, no communication with the outside world. No communication, No. I mean, it was Far enough off the coast that they didn't really have, like, good CB radio. They could communicate kind of over ham radio, but it was basically they communicated via trips on the boat to the mainland. And, you know, Michael, poor Michael remembers being left on the platform for weeks on end.
[13:56]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, my God.
[13:57]
Alan Kohler
To try and make it more livable, they sort of started to create, you know, kitchen spaces, living quarters in the two turrets, and sort of making it a bit more survivable.
[14:07]
Adair Shepherd
Have you seen any photos of the interior?
[14:10]
Alan Kohler
Oh, yeah. There's heaps of photos of what it looks like. It looks pretty horrible. It looks pretty dreadful.
[14:13]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[14:14]
Alan Kohler
I mean, it looks like what it is, an abandoned naval facility.
[14:17]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah. I just can't get over Michael.
[14:20]
Alan Kohler
Well, he was into it. He was into it.
[14:22]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[14:23]
Alan Kohler
You know, it was kind of a thing that he did with his dad, you know?
[14:25]
Adair Shepherd
I guess so.
[14:26]
Alan Kohler
And occasionally threw Molotov cocktails.
[14:28]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah. But then two weeks by himself.
[14:31]
Alan Kohler
So in the mid-1970s, a German fellow named Professor Alexander Achenbach became interested in the platform and started speaking to Roy about the whole thing. He was a con man. He was not a professor. He had a, you know, a string of pretty questionable business activities in his past. But he started producing slick brochures, sort of proposing an expansion of Sealand by building out additional platforms around the existing platform of Sealand, which, by the way, is the size of two tennis courts.
[15:06]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, wow. Okay.
[15:07]
Alan Kohler
The size of the country is the size of two tennis courts. So he was going to expand it so that they could have a golf course, that they could have oil refinery on their hotels, a casino, all that kind of thing. They kind of weren't really going anywhere with it. And the Bates family were kind of, like, you know, a bit skeptical about the whole thing. So Achenbach decided to launch a coup. Yeah.
[15:32]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[15:33]
Alan Kohler
So Achenbach lured Roy, the dad, to Austria for a meeting, leaving Michael on the.
[15:42]
Adair Shepherd
Poor Michael.
[15:43]
Alan Kohler
Leaving Michael on the platform again.
[15:45]
Adair Shepherd
I guess he's an adult by this point.
[15:46]
Alan Kohler
Yeah, yeah. He's like 28.
[15:47]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[15:48]
Alan Kohler
Leaving Michael on the platform. While Roy was away, a helicopter approaches, and it's Achenbach's lawyer.
[15:57]
Adair Shepherd
Interesting.
[15:59]
Alan Kohler
And Achenbach's lawyer lands on the platform and says to Michael, oh, man, it's been quite a journey. And, you know, rappelling down from a helicopter was pretty crazy. Can me and my friends who have come with me, you know, Achenbach's team, can we come and just hang out for a little bit and would that be all right? Michael's like, I'd much rather my dad was here. I don't know why you're here without him. And, you know, I thought this whole meeting was happening in Austria. I'd really rather it if you left.
[16:30]
Adair Shepherd
He's got good instincts. Come on, Michael.
[16:32]
Alan Kohler
They went, look, can we have a whiskey before we go? So Michael goes off into the bowels of the platform to the whiskey room. I don't know.
[16:41]
Adair Shepherd
Okay, yeah.
[16:42]
Alan Kohler
He goes into the room where they have all the whiskey and the Germans who have landed there go after him, shut the door behind him and lock it.
[16:51]
Adair Shepherd
No.
[16:52]
Alan Kohler
So he's locked in the whiskey room.
[16:53]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[16:54]
Alan Kohler
They basically said, look, you've got two options. One, we're going to lock you in here and you won't be able to get out until basically we figure out what to do with you. Or we would be happy to take you to the mainland. You know, basically just bugger off, get off the platform. Michael went, okay, fine, just take me to the mainland and we'll. We'll figure out what we're going to do.
[17:13]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[17:13]
Alan Kohler
So he gets dumped in Belgium, I think, without his passport. And he manages to find his way back to the UK and go back to, like, the house that the family owns. And Roy's there and he's like, we got coup d'. Etat. And Roy and Michael decide that they're gonna take the platform back.
[17:35]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, my God.
[17:36]
Alan Kohler
Of course, now they know a guy who flies helicopters for the James Bond franchise.
[17:42]
Adair Shepherd
There's two James Bond connections.
[17:44]
Alan Kohler
Okay, look, to be honest with you there, I think in the 70s, a pretty large proportion of the British arts industry was devoted to making James Bond movies.
[17:54]
Adair Shepherd
Sure. Okay.
[17:56]
Alan Kohler
I think they were a pretty big deal.
[17:57]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[17:58]
Alan Kohler
They get a lift to the platform. They approach the platform from downwind so that the people on the platform won't hear them coming. They drop a rope from the helicopter. Michael slides down. There is one of the Germans is on the platform, but he's asleep on a chair.
[18:18]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[18:18]
Alan Kohler
Michael slides down on a rope and drops to the ground on the platform. He drops a bit harder than he expected to. And he kind of puts his hands down on the ground on the platform. And this leads to the shotgun in his hand going off, bang.
[18:37]
Adair Shepherd
Ooh. Okay.
[18:38]
Alan Kohler
It's fine.
[18:38]
Adair Shepherd
Okay, okay.
[18:39]
Alan Kohler
The shotgun just fires off into the sky. But the Germans who are on the platform are like, whoa, okay, These people are serious. We give up. You know, platform's yours.
[18:48]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, okay.
[18:50]
Alan Kohler
No blood. No blood was spilled. It was basically like, ok, you've surprised us on the platform. You've got a gun. You can have it back.
[18:56]
Adair Shepherd
That's it. I'm good. Okay.
[18:57]
Alan Kohler
Michael and Roy decided to let everyone go except for the lawyer, Eichenbach's lawyer. They took him hostage on the platform.
[19:03]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, I was on their side, but I don't know about that.
[19:06]
Alan Kohler
Well, when I say they take him hostage, I don't think they tied him up. They were just like, you're here now until we can get Akin back to say sorry for what he did. But they made it clear that he wasn't allowed to leave.
[19:15]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[19:16]
Alan Kohler
Now, we have a situation where you have a German national being held on a unrecognised micro nation.
[19:24]
Adair Shepherd
Yes.
[19:25]
Alan Kohler
The German government finds out about this, they call up the UK government and go, I believe that one of our citizens is being held hostage on a naval platform. The UK government basically went, ah. It's been made very clear to us that this is not our problem. We would not like to get involved in this at all. Thank you very much. That nut bag out there can do what he likes.
[19:47]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[19:48]
Alan Kohler
It's got nothing to do with us. And so the Germans then send a member of the German diplomatic corps, a diplomat.
[19:57]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, wow.
[19:58]
Alan Kohler
To Sealand to negotiate the release of the hostage. Now, what is the significance of this, Adair?
[20:06]
Adair Shepherd
It is the final point. The capacity to enter in relations with other countries.
[20:11]
Alan Kohler
Yes.
[20:11]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, my God.
[20:13]
Alan Kohler
So. So the Bates family considers this to be the final piece of the puzzle.
[20:18]
Adair Shepherd
That's amazing.
[20:19]
Alan Kohler
Of finally making Sealand a legitimate country. They now have a permanent population, a defined territory that is not part of another country, a government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other states.
[20:31]
Adair Shepherd
That's incredible.
[20:31]
Alan Kohler
So there you go. Bibbidi, boppity boo. Now, to be clear, it's only them that thinks that.
[20:36]
Adair Shepherd
Yes.
[20:37]
Alan Kohler
No other country has ever recognized Sealand, but Sealand does still exist.
[20:42]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, yeah.
[20:43]
Alan Kohler
Roy died a little bit more than 10 years ago. Michael is now the Prince of Sealand.
[20:48]
Adair Shepherd
Does he live there?
[20:49]
Alan Kohler
No, he doesn't live there. But members of the family. There is still a permanent population. People do live on the thing because they've kind of been able to sort of make a little bit of money out of it, basically by selling joke titles, joke passports. You can pay money and be a lord of Sealand and that kind of thing.
[21:09]
Adair Shepherd
Okay, how much money?
[21:11]
Alan Kohler
I can't remember what it was. It was a bit too much for a joke.
[21:13]
Adair Shepherd
Too much for a joke.
[21:14]
Alan Kohler
Okay, Fast forward to 1997. Gianni Versace gets assassinated by a strange fellow, Andrew Cunahan, who had already murdered four other men. They go to Counahan's house and they look in his possessions. They find a Sealand passport.
[21:31]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, wow.
[21:33]
Alan Kohler
And they go, oh, what's this?
[21:37]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[21:39]
Alan Kohler
And the people on Sealand kind of went, oh, we don't want to be involved in that.
[21:46]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[21:46]
Alan Kohler
And so it's been kind of a tricky thing for them over the years.
[21:50]
Adair Shepherd
So have they stopped selling passports?
[21:52]
Alan Kohler
They declared all passports at the time invalid, and now they've wound back to the passport business. Okay. It's a bit less. Bit less funny than it used to be.
[22:01]
Adair Shepherd
Yes.
[22:01]
Alan Kohler
But anyway, that is essentially the story of Sealand.
[22:04]
Adair Shepherd
That's incredible.
[22:04]
Alan Kohler
And they're still bobbing along, although not technically bobbing. I suppose they are stuck to the ground out there.
[22:09]
Adair Shepherd
No, that's amazing. Thank you for that.
[22:10]
Alan Kohler
You're welcome.
[22:11]
Adair Shepherd
I'm glad I know more about Sealand than just that. Pirate Bay tried to buy it.
[22:14]
Alan Kohler
Yeah. There's a lot to it.
[22:15]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[22:23]
Alan Kohler
Well. And after all that, I've decided to declare the, if you're listening, basement, its own sovereign nation. We will be charging an excise on MP3 files, leaving the nation, which means that you'll probably just have to pay a little bit for the podcast, potentially. We'll be sending you a tax bill sometime in the next financial year. Next week, we're continuing our look at the tortured relationship between Israel and Lebanon and why exactly this conflict has become the sticking point of the Iran war. I'll catch you then.

Summary6 min read

"Matt finally gets to talk about Sealand"

If You're Listening – Hosted by Matt Bevan (ABC Australia)
Date: June 29, 2026

Episode Overview

In this highly anticipated episode, Matt Bevan dives into the colorful, dramatic, and sometimes absurd history of Sealand, a self-declared micronation occupying a rusting World War II gun platform in the North Sea. Exploring what began as a pirate radio station and escalated into full-blown pirate antics—including coups, international incidents, and the peculiarities of would-be sovereignty—the episode connects this oddball story to broader questions about what makes a country, and the tenacity of people chasing their own thread of independence. Producer Adair Shepherd joins Matt to lend humor, insight, and skepticism throughout.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Sealand? Setting the Scene

Matt expresses his longstanding fascination with micronations—those “plucky underdog” breakaway states—and why Sealand tops his list (00:41).
Last week's episode on the State of Free Lebanon inspired this deeper dive (00:56).
Audience enthusiasm: “A lot of Sealand fans amongst the If You're Listening listeners.” (Adair, 01:49)

2. The Age of Pirate Radio and World War II Defenses

Context: Post-war UK only had BBC radio, and any non-official broadcasts were illegal (03:19).
Pirate broadcasters used boats offshore, but conditions were dire and unstable (03:27).
Introduction of Maunsell forts: WWII-era concrete towers designed to protect the Thames from German attacks (03:38).
After the war, forts were abandoned, becoming inspiration—and eventual real estate—for pirate radio enthusiasts.

3. Enter Paddy Roy Bates and Radio Essex

Paddy Roy Bates commandeers a fort (originally Fort Ruffs) and starts Radio Essex (05:26).
- Direct quote from Michael Bates, then 14, echoing the leanness of their operation:
  “We are the most seaward fort of them all. And believe me, sometimes we know it.” (05:41)
DJs played from personal record collections; living conditions were harsh and isolated.
Only one fort, Fort Ruffs, was in international waters, creating a legal gray area (07:00).

4. Pirate Tensions: Raids and Retaliation

Roy Bates seizes Fort Ruffs from competing broadcaster Radio Caroline on Christmas Eve, 1966 (07:15).
Michael Bates (age 14) was left to “hold the fort,” literally armed with a gun and Molotov cocktails to ward off would-be invaders (08:49).
- Adair reacts: “But it's a 14 year old boy with Molotov cocktails. Yeah. Okay.” (09:16)

5. Birth of the Principality of Sealand

On his wife's birthday, Roy declares the platform an independent nation: the Principality of Sealand (09:19).
Sealand applies international standards: the Montevideo Convention's four criteria for statehood (10:07):
- Permanent population (the Bates family, kind of)
- Defined territory
- Government
- Capacity for foreign relations
Legal clarity: A British court rules it has no jurisdiction over Sealand, a critical moment for the micronation (11:04).

6. Sealand’s Early Days: Isolation and Survival

Life onboard: “It looks pretty horrible. It looks pretty dreadful. ...It looks like what it is, an abandoned naval facility.” (Matt, 14:09)
Michael sometimes left alone for weeks; basic amenities slowly improved through family determination.

7. The German Coup (1978): High Drama on the High Seas

Enter Alexander Achenbach, pseudo-professor/con-man, promising expansion with wild plans for golf courses and casinos (14:30).
Achenbach lures Roy Bates to Austria, then attempts to seize Sealand by helicopter, locking Michael in the so-called “whiskey room” (16:41).
Michael is dumped in Belgium, but returns to mount a counter-coup with Roy and a James Bond helicopter pilot (17:57).
- Memorable moment: Michael slides down a rope onto the platform, accidentally fires his shotgun, causing the invaders to surrender (18:36, 18:48).
The Bateses briefly hold Achenbach’s lawyer hostage, generating an international incident.

8. International Recognition...Sort Of

The German government sends a diplomat to negotiate, which the Bates family believes fulfills the final Montevideo Convention criterion: “capacity to enter into relations with other states” (20:06, 20:10).
- Matt: “So the Bates family considers this to be the final piece of the puzzle...of finally making Sealand a legitimate country.” (20:12)
No official recognition ever materializes, but Sealand persists in self-belief (20:36).

9. Sealand in Modern Times

With pirate radio legalized in the UK, Sealand pivots to novelty businesses: selling titles, citizenship, and passports (21:09).
Dark turn: Infamous killer Andrew Cunahan, assassin of Gianni Versace, possessed a Sealand passport, prompting all passports to be voided (21:14).
- Matt: “The people on Sealand kind of went, 'Oh, we don't want to be involved in that.'” (21:38)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Pirate Radio Movie:
“The reason I hate this movie is because the amount of drama that there actually was between the pirate radio station was extraordinary. And they didn't use any of it, any of the true stories of pirate radio. So I'm gonna tell you a true story of pirate radio.” (Matt, 02:45)
On Sealand's Population:
“They've kind of got a permanent population in that, you know, they're leaving a 14 year old boy on there.” (Matt, 10:39)
On International Law:
“A UN spokesperson responded with, the United Nations is an organization of governments, not gun platforms. The Secretary General has a nut file for such applications.” (Matt, 12:12)
On Life Onboard:
“He was into it. You know, it was kind of a thing that he did with his dad, you know?” (Matt, 14:22)
On the German Coup:
“He goes into the room where they have all the whiskey and the Germans who have landed there go after him, shut the door behind him and lock it.” (Matt, 16:41)
On Statehood:
“Bibbidi, boppity boo. Now, to be clear, it's only them that thinks that. No other country has ever recognized Sealand, but Sealand does still exist.” (Matt, 20:31)
Sealand’s Legacy:
“That is essentially the story of Sealand. And they're still bobbing along, although not technically bobbing. I suppose they are stuck to the ground out there.” (Matt, 22:03)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:41 – Matt’s confession: “I love stories about micronations.”
03:38 – Maunsell forts and their role.
05:26 – Radio Essex broadcast begins on Fort Ruffs.
07:15 – The battle for Fort Ruffs: Christmas coup.
08:49 – Michael Bates armed with Molotov cocktails “holding the fort.”
09:19 – Founding of the Principality of Sealand.
11:04 – British courts rule they lack jurisdiction over Sealand.
14:09 – Description of living conditions on Sealand.
16:41 – The German coup: Michael locked in the whiskey room.
17:57 – The counter-coup: James Bond connection, action-movie resolution.
20:06 – Bateses interpret Germany’s diplomatic visit as international recognition.
21:09 – Modern Sealand: joke titles, citizenships, and the Versace connection.
22:03 – “That is essentially the story of Sealand.”

Episode Tone & Unique Aspects

Playful, sardonic, and incredulous, with Matt and Adair riffing on the extraordinary events and people behind Sealand.
The episode deftly blends deadpan humor with genuine amazement at the tenacity of micronationalists.
Frequent pauses to reflect on the absurdity—and, sometimes, the implicit seriousness—of self-declared sovereignty.
Ongoing thread: empathy (and occasional mockery) for Michael Bates, forever left to defend a steel structure in the North Sea.

Conclusion

"Matt finally gets to talk about Sealand" is a rollicking journey through one of history’s strangest “nations,” complete with armed standoffs, helicopter raids, and the eternal, slightly bonkers search for recognition. Whether or not you think Sealand is a real country, Matt and Adair make it clear: in international law, as in life, sometimes the real story is even wilder than the legend.

Loading summary

Transcript163 lines

[00:00]
Adair Shepherd
ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music and more.
[00:08]
Carrington Clarke
Prices shift, petrol jumps, shares fall, a company cuts jobs, and suddenly the business story is everyone's story.
[00:16]
Alan Kohler
I'm Alan Kohler.
[00:17]
Carrington Clarke
And I'm Carrington Clarke. From Monday to Thursday on ABC Business Daily, we break down the biggest stories in business, finance and the economy and why they matter.
[00:28]
Alan Kohler
Then on Fridays, I go deeper on that's Business. The people making decisions, taking risks and shaping where the economy goes next.
[00:35]
Carrington Clarke
Find it all in the ABC Business Daily feed on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:42]
Alan Kohler
This podcast was produced on the lands of the Awabakal and Gadigal people. G', day, Matt Bevin here, this is if you're listening. If there's one type of story that I love and I wish we could cover more on this show, it's ones about micronations. The stories of people who plant their feet say I've had enough. My backyard is now the sovereign nation of New Backyardia. On last week's episode we looked at one particular micronation, the state of Free Lebanon, an unrecognised, relatively short lived Israeli puppet state. It got me thinking about my all time favourite plucky underdog micronation. It's called Sealand. And when I mentioned it briefly in an episode last year, a lot of you wrote in to express that you shared my enthusiasm. So here we are today. I'm finally telling the story of the radio pirate turned actual pirate who declared himself the prince of a rusting gun platform in the North Sea. I'm joined again by producer Adair Shepherd. Hi Adair.
[01:49]
Adair Shepherd
Hello. Yes, we got a lot of emails about this. There's a lot of Sealand fans amongst the if you're listeners,
[02:00]
Alan Kohler
So dare. Have you seen the movie the Boat that rocked from 2009?
[02:06]
Adair Shepherd
Yes. Bill Nighy. I love that movie.
[02:09]
Alan Kohler
I hate that movie.
[02:11]
Michael Bates
Oh no,
[02:13]
Alan Kohler
the thing was, I didn't hate the movie while watching it. I mean I did a little bit. I kind of. It's an interesting movie. It's based on pirate radio and it's based on these guys being off the coast of the UK with broadcasting rock music into the UK illegally.
[02:30]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[02:31]
Alan Kohler
The problem with it is that there's no plot. Right. It's kind of like, isn't it cool that there were these pirate radio guys and then there's a storm and the boat sinks and that's the whole plot of the story.
[02:45]
Adair Shepherd
That's true.
[02:46]
Alan Kohler
But the reason I hate this movie is because the amount of drama that there actually was between the pirate radio station was extraordinary. And they didn't use any of it, any of the true stories of pirate radio. So I'm gonna tell you a true story of pirate radio.
[03:09]
Adair Shepherd
What the boat that rock should have been. Okay, I'm excited.
[03:11]
Alan Kohler
And the premise of the story is true in that people were really, really annoyed about the fact that other parts of the world had rock commercial radio.
[03:20]
Adair Shepherd
Why didn't they have it?
[03:21]
Alan Kohler
Basically, because the BBC had a full monopoly on radio broadcast. There was no other broadcaster in the uk. Oh, wow.
[03:27]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[03:28]
Alan Kohler
And it was Illeg to have another radio station in the uk. And so because it's Europe, various people in the UK would listen to radio coming from the mainland and coming from these illegal offshore radio broadcasters who were broadcasting from boats with big transmitters on top of them parked out in the ocean. Now, those boats were problematic and kind of really difficult to live on, difficult to broadcast from. And so off the coast of the Thames, So if you can imagine, London, you know, is on the Thames River. The Thames runs east and then it dumps out into the North Sea in kind of a bay area. And in that bay, During World War II, the British were really concerned that the Germans would come and blockade the Thames and stop boats from coming in and out of the Thames. And so they developed these things called Maunsell forts, which are basically giant concrete structures made of prefabricated concrete that they made on land. And they would float out into the Thames Estuary and then basically pull plugs in the bottom of them, they would sink and then sit on the sand bed of the Thames Estuary. So it was basically two giant concrete columns with a platform on top. And you could put guns on the top of the platform and stop anybody from being able to come into the Thames Estuary area and mess around with them at all.
[04:56]
Adair Shepherd
Sure. Seems like a great solution.
[04:57]
Alan Kohler
It was a good solution. And because there were these giant things, These were basically seven storey buildings. They had quarters for like 150 Navy personnel. And after World War II, they had no need for these forts anymore and they abandoned them. So these forts became of interest to. To the pirate radio broadcasters who wanted to be able to use them and not be seasick and not be seasick and not accidentally sink and that kind of thing.
[05:26]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[05:27]
Alan Kohler
And so there were four of these forts and a bloke named Paddy Roy Bates decided that he was going to commandeer one of those forts and set up a radio station on it, which he called Radio Essex.
[05:41]
Michael Bates
We're situated on the Not John Ex naval fort in the or just outside the Thames estuary. About approximately 12 miles from Southend. And we are the most seaward fort of them all. And believe me, sometimes we know it, when first seen from the sea, is from very similar to that of a battleship. So that's what we call it, the old battleship. That's enough about the fort. Our power, well, that's a state secret. Our staff consists. DJ staff.
[06:08]
Alan Kohler
So, I mean, it's pretty loose content, I think.
[06:10]
Adair Shepherd
Very loose, yes.
[06:13]
Alan Kohler
I mean, but you got to remember this is just a bunch of dudes. They would have to go out on a. On a boat to these forts.
[06:20]
Adair Shepherd
They didn't live on the fort.
[06:21]
Alan Kohler
No, they did live on the fort. They had to live out there because it was such a nightmare to get back to shore. But these were just pop music enthusiasts. They would often just be bringing their own record collection.
[06:30]
Adair Shepherd
That's great.
[06:31]
Alan Kohler
And playing it. Like the radio station didn't have its own record collection. It was just the DJs brought their own things and played them on their show. It was very loose. So the thing was that the British government made it clear that they were not going to allow this. And the problem that they had was three of the four forts were technically in British territorial waters. And the ones that were on British territorial waters were the ones that were most easy to get to from the shore because they were quite close to the shore.
[07:00]
Adair Shepherd
Yes.
[07:00]
Alan Kohler
Only one of the four forts was actually in international waters. It had been placed there illegally during World War II. It was against the law for the British government to do what they did. But, you know, it was War ii and so who cares? But nobody really wanted to go there because it was so far out in the ocean.
[07:15]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[07:16]
Alan Kohler
But one of the radio stations, Radio Caroline, went and set up on Fort Ruffs. And Paddy Roy Bates, the owner of Radio Essex, decided that he wanted that fort. Thank you very much. And so he rocked up with his son. On Christmas Eve 1966, when they thought that there wouldn't be very many people from Radio Caroline on the fort, they went in there, they made it clear that it was theirs. Now, they didn't actually beat them up, but they kind of made it clear that they would be. Yeah, they would regret it if they didn't leave the fort. So the folks from Radio Caroline left the fort and From Christmas Eve 1966, Bates had control of this tower and started broadcasting from this tower from Christmas Eve 1966.
[08:01]
Adair Shepherd
I do know one thing about Radio Caroline. Oh, yes, the guy who created radio Caroline, Ronan O'Reilly. He was the manager for George Lazenby, who was the Australian James Bond. And he's the person who convinced George Lazenby to quit after one James Bond film. Because apparently James Bond was going nowhere.
[08:23]
Alan Kohler
Tremendous call.
[08:24]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[08:24]
Alan Kohler
Because, yeah, George Lazenby didn't have a massive career after James Bond.
[08:27]
Adair Shepherd
No. No.
[08:28]
Alan Kohler
So the thing was that the fort was extremely attractive to the other radio stations. They really wanted it. Basically they. They needed to literally fight in order to retain control of the fort. Michael. So this is Paddy Roy Bates, 14 year old son at the time was left on the fort on his own to literally hold the fort on several occasions.
[08:50]
Adair Shepherd
Oh my God.
[08:51]
Alan Kohler
To make sure that nobody took the fort off them. What, he was given a gun?
[08:55]
Adair Shepherd
No.
[08:56]
Alan Kohler
And the materials to make Molotov cocktails. And so whenever a boat that he suspected of being hostile came near the fort, he would fire warning shots and poor boy and lob Molotov cocktails at them into the ocean. Never. They would say, with the intention of actually harming anybody.
[09:15]
Adair Shepherd
Sure.
[09:15]
Alan Kohler
Basically just to tell them to go away.
[09:17]
Adair Shepherd
But it's a 14 year old boy with Molotov cocktails. Yeah. Okay.
[09:20]
Alan Kohler
So Bates had kind of more ideas for the fort than just pirate radio. And as kind of semi as a joke on his wife's birthday the following year in 1967, he declared the creation of the Principality of Sealand, what he described as a sovereign nation. On this fort, which he would be the prince of his wife would be the princess and his son would be another prince and. And the family would be the royal family of the Principality of Sealand. Nobody really paid much attention to this. Everyone kind of thought it was a bit ridiculous. They sent in sort of attempts to basically register themselves as a country with other countries. The thing was that there is kind of a vague framework for what constitutes as a country.
[10:07]
Adair Shepherd
Yes, okay.
[10:08]
Alan Kohler
Which was set by the Montevideo convent. And it's pretty questionable exactly how much legal weight this convention has, but it's kind of used as sort of a four point checklist for is this a country or not? And the four point checklist goes, does it have a permanent population? Does it have a defined territory that is not part of another country? Does it have a government and does it have the capacity to enter into relations with other states?
[10:37]
Adair Shepherd
So they've checked off quite a few of those.
[10:40]
Alan Kohler
Well, kind of. They've kind of got a permanent population in that. You know, they're leaving a 14 year old boy on there.
[10:45]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah, exactly.
[10:46]
Alan Kohler
And sometimes There are radio DJs broadcasting from the tower. They've got a government. It's a One person, government, kind of, but they started sort of printing stamps and making banknotes just for fun. The question is whether this was a defined territory that is not part of another country, not part of another jurisdiction.
[11:04]
Adair Shepherd
Well, it's in international waters, right?
[11:06]
Alan Kohler
Yeah, but you know, it was a fort that was placed there by the British Navy. So is that part of the UK was the question. So on the 6th of May 1968, Michael, the 14 year old boy, did one of the things where he was firing guns and lobbing Molotov cocktails at people. And the British government decided they weren't entirely on board with the fact that this was happening. And they arrested Michael and Roy on firearms off. They were taken to the mainland and put on trial. But the thing was, the judge in the trial said, before we actually have the trial, we need to establish jurisdiction. And after they heard from all the parties, they decided that the British government's jurisdiction did not extend to the fort. Wow. And so therefore there was no trial because apparently there was no law that prohibited people from firing guns and lobbing Molotov cocktails off the edge of this fort in international territory. And so that was a big tick for them that they were basically saying, okay, look, we own this fort, we can, we can do what we like with it. They did apply to the United nations and say, can we please be a member of the United Nations? A UN spokesperson responded with, the United nations is an organization of governments, not gun platforms. The Secretary General has a nut file for such applications.
[12:35]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[12:36]
Alan Kohler
So things on the fort got interesting over the next decade. The BBC created BBC Radio 1, which is their equivalent of Triple J, basically. And so they were broadcasting legal rock music on the mainland and they poached a lot of the DJs from pirate radio radio stations to come and be on Radio 1. And kind of that was the end of pirate radio. They also then subsequently allowed commercial broadcasting in the early 1970s. And so commercial radio stations, legal commercial radio stations, started propping up on the mainland. There was really no need for pirate radio. And so what is the point of this platform now and how are they going to make any money out of it and how are they going to keep it above water? You might say, haha, very good. The Bates family, Paddy and Michael, were very determined to hold onto it because they kind of saw it as this family project. Now they spent the next decade trying to make the new nation more livable, even though the fact it had no electricity, no water, no communication with the outside world. No communication, No. I mean, it was Far enough off the coast that they didn't really have, like, good CB radio. They could communicate kind of over ham radio, but it was basically they communicated via trips on the boat to the mainland. And, you know, Michael, poor Michael remembers being left on the platform for weeks on end.
[13:56]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, my God.
[13:57]
Alan Kohler
To try and make it more livable, they sort of started to create, you know, kitchen spaces, living quarters in the two turrets, and sort of making it a bit more survivable.
[14:07]
Adair Shepherd
Have you seen any photos of the interior?
[14:10]
Alan Kohler
Oh, yeah. There's heaps of photos of what it looks like. It looks pretty horrible. It looks pretty dreadful.
[14:13]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[14:14]
Alan Kohler
I mean, it looks like what it is, an abandoned naval facility.
[14:17]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah. I just can't get over Michael.
[14:20]
Alan Kohler
Well, he was into it. He was into it.
[14:22]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[14:23]
Alan Kohler
You know, it was kind of a thing that he did with his dad, you know?
[14:25]
Adair Shepherd
I guess so.
[14:26]
Alan Kohler
And occasionally threw Molotov cocktails.
[14:28]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah. But then two weeks by himself.
[14:31]
Alan Kohler
So in the mid-1970s, a German fellow named Professor Alexander Achenbach became interested in the platform and started speaking to Roy about the whole thing. He was a con man. He was not a professor. He had a, you know, a string of pretty questionable business activities in his past. But he started producing slick brochures, sort of proposing an expansion of Sealand by building out additional platforms around the existing platform of Sealand, which, by the way, is the size of two tennis courts.
[15:06]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, wow. Okay.
[15:07]
Alan Kohler
The size of the country is the size of two tennis courts. So he was going to expand it so that they could have a golf course, that they could have oil refinery on their hotels, a casino, all that kind of thing. They kind of weren't really going anywhere with it. And the Bates family were kind of, like, you know, a bit skeptical about the whole thing. So Achenbach decided to launch a coup. Yeah.
[15:32]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[15:33]
Alan Kohler
So Achenbach lured Roy, the dad, to Austria for a meeting, leaving Michael on the.
[15:42]
Adair Shepherd
Poor Michael.
[15:43]
Alan Kohler
Leaving Michael on the platform again.
[15:45]
Adair Shepherd
I guess he's an adult by this point.
[15:46]
Alan Kohler
Yeah, yeah. He's like 28.
[15:47]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[15:48]
Alan Kohler
Leaving Michael on the platform. While Roy was away, a helicopter approaches, and it's Achenbach's lawyer.
[15:57]
Adair Shepherd
Interesting.
[15:59]
Alan Kohler
And Achenbach's lawyer lands on the platform and says to Michael, oh, man, it's been quite a journey. And, you know, rappelling down from a helicopter was pretty crazy. Can me and my friends who have come with me, you know, Achenbach's team, can we come and just hang out for a little bit and would that be all right? Michael's like, I'd much rather my dad was here. I don't know why you're here without him. And, you know, I thought this whole meeting was happening in Austria. I'd really rather it if you left.
[16:30]
Adair Shepherd
He's got good instincts. Come on, Michael.
[16:32]
Alan Kohler
They went, look, can we have a whiskey before we go? So Michael goes off into the bowels of the platform to the whiskey room. I don't know.
[16:41]
Adair Shepherd
Okay, yeah.
[16:42]
Alan Kohler
He goes into the room where they have all the whiskey and the Germans who have landed there go after him, shut the door behind him and lock it.
[16:51]
Adair Shepherd
No.
[16:52]
Alan Kohler
So he's locked in the whiskey room.
[16:53]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[16:54]
Alan Kohler
They basically said, look, you've got two options. One, we're going to lock you in here and you won't be able to get out until basically we figure out what to do with you. Or we would be happy to take you to the mainland. You know, basically just bugger off, get off the platform. Michael went, okay, fine, just take me to the mainland and we'll. We'll figure out what we're going to do.
[17:13]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[17:13]
Alan Kohler
So he gets dumped in Belgium, I think, without his passport. And he manages to find his way back to the UK and go back to, like, the house that the family owns. And Roy's there and he's like, we got coup d'. Etat. And Roy and Michael decide that they're gonna take the platform back.
[17:35]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, my God.
[17:36]
Alan Kohler
Of course, now they know a guy who flies helicopters for the James Bond franchise.
[17:42]
Adair Shepherd
There's two James Bond connections.
[17:44]
Alan Kohler
Okay, look, to be honest with you there, I think in the 70s, a pretty large proportion of the British arts industry was devoted to making James Bond movies.
[17:54]
Adair Shepherd
Sure. Okay.
[17:56]
Alan Kohler
I think they were a pretty big deal.
[17:57]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[17:58]
Alan Kohler
They get a lift to the platform. They approach the platform from downwind so that the people on the platform won't hear them coming. They drop a rope from the helicopter. Michael slides down. There is one of the Germans is on the platform, but he's asleep on a chair.
[18:18]
Adair Shepherd
Okay.
[18:18]
Alan Kohler
Michael slides down on a rope and drops to the ground on the platform. He drops a bit harder than he expected to. And he kind of puts his hands down on the ground on the platform. And this leads to the shotgun in his hand going off, bang.
[18:37]
Adair Shepherd
Ooh. Okay.
[18:38]
Alan Kohler
It's fine.
[18:38]
Adair Shepherd
Okay, okay.
[18:39]
Alan Kohler
The shotgun just fires off into the sky. But the Germans who are on the platform are like, whoa, okay, These people are serious. We give up. You know, platform's yours.
[18:48]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, okay.
[18:50]
Alan Kohler
No blood. No blood was spilled. It was basically like, ok, you've surprised us on the platform. You've got a gun. You can have it back.
[18:56]
Adair Shepherd
That's it. I'm good. Okay.
[18:57]
Alan Kohler
Michael and Roy decided to let everyone go except for the lawyer, Eichenbach's lawyer. They took him hostage on the platform.
[19:03]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, I was on their side, but I don't know about that.
[19:06]
Alan Kohler
Well, when I say they take him hostage, I don't think they tied him up. They were just like, you're here now until we can get Akin back to say sorry for what he did. But they made it clear that he wasn't allowed to leave.
[19:15]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[19:16]
Alan Kohler
Now, we have a situation where you have a German national being held on a unrecognised micro nation.
[19:24]
Adair Shepherd
Yes.
[19:25]
Alan Kohler
The German government finds out about this, they call up the UK government and go, I believe that one of our citizens is being held hostage on a naval platform. The UK government basically went, ah. It's been made very clear to us that this is not our problem. We would not like to get involved in this at all. Thank you very much. That nut bag out there can do what he likes.
[19:47]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[19:48]
Alan Kohler
It's got nothing to do with us. And so the Germans then send a member of the German diplomatic corps, a diplomat.
[19:57]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, wow.
[19:58]
Alan Kohler
To Sealand to negotiate the release of the hostage. Now, what is the significance of this, Adair?
[20:06]
Adair Shepherd
It is the final point. The capacity to enter in relations with other countries.
[20:11]
Alan Kohler
Yes.
[20:11]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, my God.
[20:13]
Alan Kohler
So. So the Bates family considers this to be the final piece of the puzzle.
[20:18]
Adair Shepherd
That's amazing.
[20:19]
Alan Kohler
Of finally making Sealand a legitimate country. They now have a permanent population, a defined territory that is not part of another country, a government, and the capacity to enter into relations with other states.
[20:31]
Adair Shepherd
That's incredible.
[20:31]
Alan Kohler
So there you go. Bibbidi, boppity boo. Now, to be clear, it's only them that thinks that.
[20:36]
Adair Shepherd
Yes.
[20:37]
Alan Kohler
No other country has ever recognized Sealand, but Sealand does still exist.
[20:42]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, yeah.
[20:43]
Alan Kohler
Roy died a little bit more than 10 years ago. Michael is now the Prince of Sealand.
[20:48]
Adair Shepherd
Does he live there?
[20:49]
Alan Kohler
No, he doesn't live there. But members of the family. There is still a permanent population. People do live on the thing because they've kind of been able to sort of make a little bit of money out of it, basically by selling joke titles, joke passports. You can pay money and be a lord of Sealand and that kind of thing.
[21:09]
Adair Shepherd
Okay, how much money?
[21:11]
Alan Kohler
I can't remember what it was. It was a bit too much for a joke.
[21:13]
Adair Shepherd
Too much for a joke.
[21:14]
Alan Kohler
Okay, Fast forward to 1997. Gianni Versace gets assassinated by a strange fellow, Andrew Cunahan, who had already murdered four other men. They go to Counahan's house and they look in his possessions. They find a Sealand passport.
[21:31]
Adair Shepherd
Oh, wow.
[21:33]
Alan Kohler
And they go, oh, what's this?
[21:37]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[21:39]
Alan Kohler
And the people on Sealand kind of went, oh, we don't want to be involved in that.
[21:46]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[21:46]
Alan Kohler
And so it's been kind of a tricky thing for them over the years.
[21:50]
Adair Shepherd
So have they stopped selling passports?
[21:52]
Alan Kohler
They declared all passports at the time invalid, and now they've wound back to the passport business. Okay. It's a bit less. Bit less funny than it used to be.
[22:01]
Adair Shepherd
Yes.
[22:01]
Alan Kohler
But anyway, that is essentially the story of Sealand.
[22:04]
Adair Shepherd
That's incredible.
[22:04]
Alan Kohler
And they're still bobbing along, although not technically bobbing. I suppose they are stuck to the ground out there.
[22:09]
Adair Shepherd
No, that's amazing. Thank you for that.
[22:10]
Alan Kohler
You're welcome.
[22:11]
Adair Shepherd
I'm glad I know more about Sealand than just that. Pirate Bay tried to buy it.
[22:14]
Alan Kohler
Yeah. There's a lot to it.
[22:15]
Adair Shepherd
Yeah.
[22:23]
Alan Kohler
Well. And after all that, I've decided to declare the, if you're listening, basement, its own sovereign nation. We will be charging an excise on MP3 files, leaving the nation, which means that you'll probably just have to pay a little bit for the podcast, potentially. We'll be sending you a tax bill sometime in the next financial year. Next week, we're continuing our look at the tortured relationship between Israel and Lebanon and why exactly this conflict has become the sticking point of the Iran war. I'll catch you then.