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- [00:09]
Reggie
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to I'll Read what She's Reading. I'm Reggie.
- [00:13]
Mikaela
I'm Mikaela.
- [00:13]
Kennedy
And I'm Kennedy.
- [00:14]
Reggie
And we have a very special guest with us today, someone who we are so excited to be interviewing. We've been peeing our pants. You've been hearing us yap about her books from the second we pick them up. Welcome, Jessa Hastings.
- [00:28]
Jessa Hastings
Yay. Thank you so much for having me.
- [00:31]
Reggie
We're so excited to have Truly is an honor. I know we said that before we started the call, but it. We just feel so special that we get to sit and chat with you, and it feels surreal to, you know, be eating up all your words that we've been reading for so long and then get to see you. So thanks for being here.
- [00:50]
Jessa Hastings
Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.
- [00:51]
Kennedy
We made a list of authors that we want, like, dream authors we wanted to have on the podcast, and you were one of the top authors. We never truly thought. We didn't think we'd be able to get you on our podcast, but here we are. We're so excited.
- [01:05]
Jessa Hastings
Here we are.
- [01:06]
Mikaela
Oh, my gosh. Thank you.
- [01:07]
Jessa Hastings
I'm so happy to be here.
- [01:08]
Reggie
Oh, we're glad.
- [01:09]
Jessa Hastings
Where are you?
- [01:10]
Reggie
We're in Utah.
- [01:11]
Mikaela
Utah?
- [01:12]
Reggie
Yep.
- [01:12]
Mikaela
Yeah. Cold here. Yeah.
- [01:16]
Reggie
I mean, it's pretty warm right now, but it's usually the winters are brutal.
- [01:19]
Mikaela
Starting to melt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [01:23]
Reggie
It's pretty bipolar weather.
- [01:24]
Jessa Hastings
It's been cold in Nashville, but it's. It's. It's spring.
- [01:27]
Reggie
Yeah.
- [01:27]
Mikaela
Lucky. That's so fun. Beautiful day.
- [01:30]
Reggie
Yeah. Well, to kind of start us off, tell all of our listeners a little bit about you and your story and how you became an author.
- [01:40]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah. I mean, I think I have a. I have a fairly unconventional story. I'd always wanted to be a writer and was the kind of kid that would, like, read a book and didn't like the ending. So we'd, like, rewrite the ending, which I now realize is just fan fiction, but I didn't know that at the time. Like, I felt like I was so ahead of the curve. I wrote an iteration of Magnolia parks, like, in 2016. I want to say, like, it was very much a response to, like, I had a baby, and she just didn't sleep ever. And I was just, like, losing my mind and kind of just needed an escape to feel like a person again. And so kind of just started writing and wrote earlier iterations of Magnolia 1, 2, and 3 there in between, like, 2016 and 2017. And they were Sort of like technically done but like retrospectively I would now recognize I. Whenever I finished other books. Like I know when I finished a book and I don't actually think of the characters again. Like they're kind of just like once it's done, it's. Whereas Magnolia and BJ really very much stayed quite present in my mind. And then it was in, I want to say like October 2020, I started dreaming of them like very vividly. And I knew really quickly, oh, this is what I need to do for this story to be like, right. So I wrote Magnolia one like as it is, as it. As it is now. I wrote that in December 2020, the Long Way Home in January 2020 and then Daisy one in. No, no, January 2021 and then Daisy in like April 2021, like very quickly back to back. And at the same time, like I started sending it out to publishers and I got really good kind of feedback from them just being like, oh, we really like this, but we don't know where to place it. Like the, the publishing industry is super calcified. They don't like genre bending, they don't like anything that doesn't fit in a specific kind of category. And so they were like, we like this, like this was enjoyable, but we don't know what to do with it. And it's like 50,000 words too long for the genre that we think it should be. And I was kind of like, oh. And was pretty shattered for like a good two weeks and worked with an editor who like worked at one of the big five publishers that I like. He freelanced for me and he was, I presume, well intentioned, but he was like, yeah, like you. He, he edited it down and kind of made all of the characters sound the same, so lost all of their voices and also like took away like 50,000 words. And I was kind of like, well no, like this feels stupid and like lost. Like the characters were gone. So then I was like, fuck you. I added 10,000 words to my original word count and then was, I'm gonna do it myself, just see what happens. Like have a crack at was sort of like a magical moment in time where my brother in law and one of the boys I grew up with in Australia were like launching their creative agency. And so I worked with them to like do the covers with Emmy, who's my best friend, who does all my covers and kind of just have like a really strong branding and ethos for the series, which I think ended up helping bamboozle people into thinking it was published when it wasn't because it kind of didn't. It had more of an air of it being traditionally published. Like I remember when it first came out, reading a review, which I don't do anymore, reading a review of someone saying, oh, she's just money grabbing. She's obviously got a multi deal, a multi book deal with publishers and that's why it's ended like this. And I was like, I wish, like no one, no one took it. So then I did. Magnolia One came out in July 2021, Daisy One came out in December 2021. And they both did really well for self publishing numbers. But like self publishing numbers are like, honestly pretty depressing. Like they're nice. And so they were doing really well for that. I knew the book was doing well and quite quickly had like a very vocal sort of like grassroots readership. Like people just really cared about it, but in a much smaller number. And then in July 2022, when Magnolia the Long Way Home came out, we don't really know what happened. Like we weren't running ads or anything. Like the book just came out and it just went. And it was like the craziest experience of my life. Like it was like the. I don't know. To my publisher's dismay, I literally don't know what happened. But then it was like a month later, I had every publisher of my dreams knocking on my door like, we'll take it, we'll have whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever. Yeah, it was a dream scenario. And it has afforded me like a really. I'm very lucky it went like that because it has given me. Obviously my books have not just stayed long, they've gotten longer. And because of what happened and how I like my numbers were so good, by the time that the publishers were coming to me, they were like, better than publishing numbers are really. They. I had a really good hand for leveraging and I was only. I said I'd only sign with people if they let me like, you know, basically do what I want to do as much as a publisher will let you do that. And so there's like, you know, that's why they're so long. And just like that. Not. That was so long too. I'm never brief ever.
- [08:20]
Mikaela
So we love how long they are.
- [08:22]
Kennedy
Oh yeah, I wish they were. Yeah, I Wish they were 200 pages longer. Oh my gosh.
- [08:28]
Jessa Hastings
Do you know what's so funny? This is like, this is actually a scoop. And don't ask any follow up questions because I can't talk about it yet. But I did over summer. No, no, no, that's summer in Australia. Over Christmas I went. I wanted to write a novella and I went to write this novella and then it became 90,000 words and it was like just my agent was like, do you know what a novella is? I was like, well, I tried. I tried so hard.
- [09:06]
Mikaela
No, I just love how much you like. I feel like that shows how much you care about your characters and it'd be doing them a disservice to write them any shorter.
- [09:16]
Jessa Hastings
Do you know what, What I have worked out in the last couple of years because I don't actually read a lot of books that are like genre similar. Like I not a big fiction reader. But what I have learned both with like any kind of storytelling, whether that's books or like tv has become now in the olden days of storytelling and by the olden days, I mean, you know, 2003, like where TV was really good. They used to, like when the seasons of like OC or Gossip Girl were 22 episodes, season one of the OC was 27 episodes long. Which I actually think I learned a lot of my writing from television, more than my books are so dialogue heavy. Learnt more about writing from TVs than I did from books that in those days you spent so much more time with the characters now because of like the streaming model, like most TV shows that go to stream are six, sometimes max 12 episodes long. And so you're really only ever with the characters for this, like for whatever moment is the most intense. They're not lived in characters. You don't know them very well. There's definitely a reason why I don't know who has a comfort show that was made after like 2010 like this. They just don't exist because you don't know the characters as well anymore. It's not as intimate. And so I think that actually the reason why people have latched on to Magnolia and Daisy, how they have and why they love them and why they feel like they're real characters, is because of the quiet moments of nothing in between where she's in the kitchen and she's making a cup of tea. Or the passing moments that would absolutely under no circumstance on television ever make it past the editing floor. The same with editors now. One of the US publishers of into the Dark wanted it to be significantly shorter. And I was like, well, no, because the humanity of the characters is in the breadth of the book. Like you need the space. There needs to be breathing room for these people to actually be people. And so I think that that's. Yeah. I won't ever write short books because I think they need to feel real, you know?
- [11:58]
Reggie
Yeah. And I think that's what we love about your books. And everything you just said was said so perfectly. And I've never thought about it that way, but that makes so much sense. And it's so beautiful.
- [12:12]
Jessa Hastings
Like, what's your comfort shot? I guarantee it's.
- [12:14]
Reggie
I was thinking that while you were talking, like. No, that.
- [12:16]
Jessa Hastings
Yep.
- [12:17]
Reggie
That makes perfect sense. Yeah.
- [12:19]
Jessa Hastings
Because you spend so much time with them, the go girls. You spend so much time with them. New girl, new Spanish.
- [12:25]
Reggie
How much time?
- [12:27]
Jessa Hastings
And you do these, like, very lived in, regular things that makes it feel like they're actually fully fleshed people, as opposed to, like, Outer Banks, which I love. I love out of Banks. I really do. And I'm so excited every time a new season comes out. But I don't go back and rewatch it because it's so high intensity. Like, you're never catching your breath. How could it ever be a comfort show? It is existing, you know, Same with Stranger Things. I actually do watch Stranger Things and I'm stressed the whole time watching it every time I do a rewatch, but I rewatch it from, like, a storytelling perspective because I'm like, it's very well done and they've crafted it so well, and I, before every season of Stranger Things, will rewatch it. So I, like, catch everything I need to catch. But, God, like, it's brutal. Like, you're, like, so tired after doing it. Whereas in the olden days in O.C. there was like. I don't know, there was a whole last episode where Ryan played soccer and you never hear about it ever again. Like, it's just like, you know, he's just a kid. He's trying. Like, I really appreciate that it made me like the characters, so I think that's why I do it well, and.
- [13:36]
Kennedy
It makes the characters feel more like real people. I finished the up to where Magnolia Parks is at, and I was so depressed because I was like, these are my friends. I have such an emotional connection to them because you show the mundane and you show every ounce of them as characters. And I think that's why your books feel so different, because most books aren't that way. It's not just the fact that your books bend, like, bend genres. It's the fact that you include all of that and not a lot of other people do.
- [14:11]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah, I think. And that's where I feel really lucky because I think there would be Many editors who don't have an appreciation for that, like, they'd be like, what is this? Why this is unnecessary? And I'm like, well, no, it's just meant to feel lived in. Like, you're meant to feel like. I've always written Magnolia as though you're like the invisible member of the box set. Like, that's always supposed to be how it's felt. And that sort of has spilled over into everything I write. You're. You're the confidant of whoever is talking. Like, you're in the inner circle. And that is partial. That is just sort of my writing style, for sure. But in doing that, it's like, I. I usually write my characters not dissimilar to how the sorts of things, like, I would share, especially Magnolia. Like, Magnolia is just, she and I, we are one. And her blabbery over sharing is like, that's me with my best friend. Like, I'll, you know, I don't know what I'm gonna eat for dinner. Help me pick what I'm gonna eat for dinner. This was the consistency of the poo I just took. I will tell her everything. And I do think that it does paint them. It does make them be like. I think that's why people. This is my favorite thing that people say to me is, oh, like, they feel like they're my friends. I was lonely before, and then I found friends in the book. Like, I'm like, oh, literally the dream.
- [15:45]
Reggie
Yeah, well, we've always said that your writing feels like anything unlike anything we've ever read before. And so to go. I feel like that goes really well into our next question, which is what is your writing process like? And how do you get inspired? Because you've already shared, you know, television and stuff like that. But is there any. What else? Because you're. To me, your books feel like. I've always said this, that your books feel like poetry to me. Like, they're like poetry books to me.
- [16:17]
Jessa Hastings
Well, my other process first. My process has changed a lot in the last couple of years as I've gotten more and more busy in the. In the olden days of where writing was, like, really easy and fun, which was pre published days, I used to just like, lock myself in a room and I would write really intensely for two weeks, and then I do nothing for three weeks. And then I write really intensely for two or three weeks. And that was it. And I. That. That was just kind of like, that's how I wrote Magnolia. 1, 2, 3. Sorry. They're all MPU to me. All of the books until into the Dark were written like that, including Never, which was. But never took longer because Never is, like, super immersive. And so Never, I think, took eight weeks, which was, like, at that point in time, the longest it had ever taken me to finish a book. Um, and that was. Yeah, so just kind of like, really, I have adhd, so I think the hyper fixation probably really helps. And so would just, like, lock myself away. Work, work, work. Not really sleep. And then, like, be a vegetable for, like, two or three days. That was two or three weeks and then work again. In the last couple of years, I've had to sort of recalibrate what my writing process looks like. I don't love it. Like, it just is now kind of like a means to an end where it's kind of. I write a lot on my phone because I kind of just have to catch the moments where I can. And so. And I do this funny sort of writing now where, like, the Conditions of Will, especially. I wrote in, like, I'd half written Conditions of will back in 2018. And that part of it, like, that first half of the book is as it was then. But when it kind of popped into my mind in March this year, when I had a lot of work stuff going on and was kind of like, oh, I really need to be in control of the story myself again. Started. Picked that. Picked that back up again. And very much was lost in the process of, like, oh, how do I. When there are other demands of me. I didn't have that many before. Now that there are so many other things that require my attention, how do I find the space to write? And really, I started this weird thing where it's like, I have a shorthand for writing. And so, like, I. All of my every single chapter will be dialogue first. It's always based around dialogue. And then I'll. So I'll write whatever conversations take place. Easy. Dialogue is the easiest thing in the world for me. Dialogue first. And then I'll go back up and sort of like, I have these funny, like, symbols that I'll use to, like. No, this needs to expand. You need to, like, focus in on the. The eye contact between these two characters here. You need to, like, I have these symbols. I just put in the symbols. And then usually in between the dialogue, my brain will just organically do that. Sort of like, very typical of me prose, where it's, like, quite floral and metaphory that just comes out in the wash. And so then I'll go back. And so it's a really disjointed writing experience for me, honestly, at this point, which I don't love. But that's kind of like, it is what it is for now. Like, that's how I'm writing. I'm working on a couple of things at the minute, and that's how I'm having to write those things. Over Christmas with the novella I actually did have, I had the intense experience again, and I loved it. Like, it was such a joy. So that would be my ideal. Like, I really wish that is what I was afforded, but at the minute, that is my current process. And what was part two of the question? I forgot.
- [20:34]
Reggie
Well, just. Yeah. Where do you draw inspiration from?
- [20:40]
Jessa Hastings
I don't know. Actually. There's never that one time. There has been a thing where I. I. When I watched to all the Boys I love. When that came out on Netflix, I was like, oh, that looks like that would be really fun to write. Like, I want to write something like that. And so I went into my room and was like, I'm going to write this. I want to think of an idea. Like, just think of an idea. And immediately, as when I sat down on my bed, this idea dropped into my head and I was like, I don't want to write that. That is not the same sort of, like, light, fluffy thing that I'm looking to write right now. But another idea never came. Like, and that idea sort of just like, to me, ideas are a bit like balloons. Like, they can float in and I can hold onto them and then let them go. And if they still stay around anyway, that's kind of where I'll start paying attention. Like, I have infinity ideas of stories. It's only the ones that, like, are, like, tapping away in my mind that I really can afford to pay attention to. And so I, um. I wrote that one. I did write that book in total in three weeks, and that hasn't been published yet because I wrote it such a long time ago that it's just sort of like, it's. It's just in the. It's in the background. So I need to pay. I need to pay attention to that. But that's. That was a really interesting experience for me where I was like, I'm consciously, like, I'm going to write something about this. The rest of everything else that I've written really just arrived on its own without any sort of, like, level of consciousness for me. Like, it was just like, Magnolia. The. The origin of Magnolia's character was I used to write down in a note on my phone all of the things that I didn't feel like I could say out loud to other people. And that sort of, like, formed the tone of Magnolia's voice. And then one day I read all of these things, and her name just popped into my head. And then as soon as her name popped into my head, I knew her friendship group. I knew about bj. I knew all of these things. And then the story was just there. And I felt like I was being told the story as I was writing the story. And that is sort of just my. Yeah, just. Just the. Just the way that it goes. Like, I think the more I've written, the more I've understood. I think I probably have, like, a bit of a unique gift with storytelling where I can sort of see it's like a path. Like, most of the time, when a story drops into my head, it feels like a path rolls out in front of me, and I can peer down it and be like, oh, yeah, that's gonna work. And if an idea comes in, I can tell if that's gonna work in this path or if it would take it down a path. I'm not interested in going in. Like, I. And my brain's really good at doing that. But, yeah, there's not. I wouldn't say that the stories are, like, deeply, I don't think inspired by anything. Magnolia's based on a younger version of me, and I had a very dramatic, like, teen years and early twenties. But I would say that's like. Yeah, I don't have, like, a great being like, oh, this.
- [24:22]
Reggie
This.
- [24:23]
Jessa Hastings
The clouds, you know, I mean, like, it was just like, the. The never. I remember being jealous of Twilight and being like, I want to write something that is, like, fantasy. And then I was at a nail salon at a beach in Sydney and then never popped into my head when I was 18, and I was like, oh, this is a pretty good idea. I will. I'll write that. So I guess maybe most of the time they just, like. I would say the stories arrive, like, plop. Fully formed, and it doesn't. And they feel quite separate from me as well, which is a funny thing. Like, I. I would say, like, I just do what I'm told to do, like the muses tell me. And I. Which means oftentimes, like, I have very little ego when it comes to, like, the. The story. Because to me, it's like, I'm just doing what I'm told. Like, the story is the master, I am the servant. And, like, I Just do what I'm told, that's all.
- [25:23]
Reggie
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- [25:43]
Kennedy
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- [26:02]
Mikaela
Their protein powder is honestly the best I've ever had. Visit cleansimpleats.com and use code read 20 at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's clean simple eats.com code R E A D20 for 20% off your first order. Link is also in the show notes. I. This is like a surreal experience to get to experience what's inside your brain and are you so special.
- [26:34]
Kennedy
Love it.
- [26:35]
Mikaela
No, I am just like enthralled with you right now. This is so fun to like see the process of all these characters because it's such an immersive story and so like for you to just say, like, I just do what I'm told.
- [26:48]
Jessa Hastings
That's.
- [26:49]
Mikaela
I love it. But like, I don't. It's crazy that your brain works like that because I could never. And so I really truly think you have such a gift and I think you really have just like grasped it and just like ran with it and it's incredible. I love it so much.
- [27:07]
Jessa Hastings
Thank you. That's so nice.
- [27:09]
Mikaela
I'm just obsessed.
- [27:12]
Kennedy
Well, it's just crazy because I could never write a book and I also could never write a book though. A book that feels like yours. Like, we talk about this all the time and people will ask, hey, what? What book is similar to Magnolia Parks or what can I read that gives off the same vibes and genuinely, it's really hard for me to come up with something because your books just feel different and in talking to you, it all makes sense. It's like a full circle moment for me as a reader to be like, thank you. Oh, this is. This is. This is why.
- [27:42]
Mikaela
So.
- [27:43]
Jessa Hastings
Right.
- [27:44]
Mikaela
Yeah, yeah.
- [27:45]
Jessa Hastings
I mean, I think the Thing that I would say, to your point, that's a hard thing about the publishing industry, which is like, honestly, it's a really calcified industry. If you look at the way every other median has changed in the last, I don't know, 200 years. Like, books hasn't. Like, it's. Publishing is what it was 200 years ago. Music has evolved, television has evolved, film has evolved. Books are, for the most part the same. Like, there's like, in the uk, I think there's three printing presses total. Like, it's like crazy. Like, it's really hasn't changed. And so this. They. I don't know if it's a, like a fear mentality where. Because books went through a very big dip in like the 2000s. I don't know if it's a response to that or what, but, like, there's a reason that every book cover for the most part looks the same. Like, you know, when there's a good book cover and when there's not. And whether some people hate my book covers. Some people love my book covers. They don't look like other book covers. That's the thing. And that was what was so controversial about the shoes, is that they did look more like other book covers and that was the publisher's prerogative. Like, they. There is something. There is a thing in publishers where they just don't want to upset the status quo for whatever reason, which is just not my ethos as a creator at all. But as far as, like, for other people, both, like existingly published authors or people that are coming up in the industry, what they're told and what they're learning is that they kind of have to just be like everyone else. Like, there is a. Most books that I have. Like, I've tried to read other books of the people that read my books, when they love other books, I try to read them and like, the dialogue is overtly written by a woman. Like, the boys all sound like none of those. None of. No real men that I know ever talk the way that men often sound in many fiction books, which is something that I've worked really hard at trying to make sure the tone of the boys sounds like the tone of actual boys. Where. And like, I hate reading Magnolia Parks one because I'm like, I've gotten so much better at it now. Like, I'm so good at crafting a masculine voice, whereas, like, before with BJ and Christian and the ones, I was very much still learning. But I. I think that the industry doesn't really want there to be. It kind of. It's like whitewashing of, like. So it sort of feels tonally the same. And if editors are sort of, like, taught to do the same, practice. Like the guy that tried to cut Magnolia down by 50,000 words and made all the characters sort of sound like gender neutral, that was. If there's multiple people doing that, like, of course everything sort of ends up feeling and kind of sounding the same, which I think is really problematic, because then it stops being art. And I view books and words as, like, an expression of art. And I think that people that I get. I can always tell when I'm reading. When people come into reading my books really not knowing what they're in for. Because there is a certain type of reader, like you guys, who just are so delighted by the change and really embrace the change and are kind of, like, comfortable in the discomfort of Magnolia, which is like, I have always said and maintain that, like, I don't promise happy endings. I just promise it to be like, real life. Like, that's. I'm trying to have my art imitate life. Like, I want it to feel real. I want them to feel like realistic people. All bows aren't gonna get tied up because that doesn't happen. Like, you always are left with, like, some kind of question at any point in your life. And so I'm. I'm, like, very comfortable with that. But I do get so many people being like, that's. He didn't answer. I'm like, I'm. I'm not going to. That's. No, you don't.
- [32:16]
Mikaela
You don't.
- [32:17]
Jessa Hastings
That's just not kind of writing.
- [32:20]
Mikaela
Yeah.
- [32:21]
Jessa Hastings
And so, yeah, I think that that's a really hard thing about the industry right now. And I feel for people, because unless you. Unless you have leverage, and I think it's. Then on the. It's like the responsibility of the few of us who have been allowed to have a voice to then be like, no, I'm not going to make this sound like everyone else. Like, it was a. Into the dark was a battle actually, for as far as, like, publishing goes, when they were wanting to, like, cut things down or, like, you know, there was an editor who wanted. Who was like, magnolia's eating disorder isn't resolved. And I'm like, yeah, if any. If you've had an eating disorder, it's never resolved. It doesn't. You'll have it for forever. You'll have those thoughts for forever. And so I think that there's just, like, the people who can push back. You do need to push back because it lets you know there doesn't need to be another book that sounds like Magnolia Parks. There needs to be a book that sounds like that person. People just need to be able to be empowered to sound like themselves and empowered in their own tone. And I think that, you know, like people. I think there's, you know, everyone borrows things from different people. Like, I feel like I learned a lot of that sort of like emotive in a monologue that my characters often have. Like, I feel like I learned that from Grey's Anatomy, like, and did like, you know, pulled a lot from that sort of experience. And then where I find a lot of my, like, something that I feel like is quite specific to me with my writing, with the metaphors especially is like, I'm. I really love science. So a lot of my metaphors have like a real scientific grounding or background. And, and I will do like, parallels in nature to like the human experience. And that is, it's like wafty and it's floral and it's not for everyone, but it is unique to me. And I don't think it needs to be something that someone else does, but someone else needs to feel empowered by that or inspired by that to then find their own version. Because I think that the further. I think that we live in this society now where like, everyone kind of looks the same, everyone kind of dresses the same, where all music sounds the same. Like there's just like there's not a lot of individuality left. So, yeah, I hope that like, people start looking for that.
- [35:13]
Mikaela
Well, I, I love that you pushed back so much because I feel like we're a little bit of seasoned readers and we can tell that things are starting to sound very much the same and it becomes very like mundane and like, repetitive. And I think it's so fun to read things that are different. And I think it's when we can have like the most thought provoking conversations are when they're different. And like, you bring out characters where we've had so many discussions about like the inner monologue or the conversations that your characters have. And it's just refreshing. And I think the publishing industry is doing a disservice by letting people not have their voice and like having creative liberty over their characters and their stories. Because I think they think we like the same things. But I think we're turning into a generation where we want things to be different and not be so, like, repetitive. Like, we want things to be unique and So I just. I love your story and I love that you can kind of, like, tell us the insight of that, because I would have never guessed that you got so much pushback from your stories. And I. Yeah, I think it's great.
- [36:35]
Jessa Hastings
Thank you.
- [36:36]
Kennedy
It's wild to hear. Just, I mean, everything about your books is genuinely unique. I remember reading the first Magnolia Parks book and it was like, not a. I mean this in, like, a nice way. It was a jarring experience because I hadn't read anything like that and I had never felt the way that I felt about characters reading your book. Like, I loved them and I hated them at the same time. And that's the purpose. Right. But then it's also crazy to me that your covers of your books are some of my favorite covers of books of all time. So the fact that they wanted to change them and make them a little bit more mainstream is crazy to me because you look at them and they're stunning and beautiful. Your best friend does a fantastic job. But then not only that, after you read the books, there's so many Easter eggs. I just. I can't imagine them wanting to just make a decision to change those. I remember scouring the Internet trying to find the original covers because they're.
- [37:32]
Jessa Hastings
And my. My UK publishers were truly incredible in. In that whole situation where they had. They had told me that they were going to want to do a mass market cover and when the shoes were released, and they were just really kind of like, they were a controversial. It was a controversial release and it was a. It was actually very traumatic for me because I had to be like, yay. Like, I. You have to back it in. It doesn't serve me well to not back it in, but, I mean, the numbers now speak for themselves and I feel confident in my publishers and we have such a great relationship where they're like, it outsells the original covers, outsell the shoes. I'm bamboozled every time I do a signing by how many more originals I'm signing versus the shoes, which is just incredible. And it was. It was amazing. But, like, to their credit, they did something they'd never done before where they were like, oh, shit, we're going to do simultaneous covers indefinitely. And so in the uk, the original covers and the shoe covers, I mostly see the shoes there, honestly. But, like, in some certain. Some stores, I will see the shoes. Um, but yeah, that's. That was like, a really unique thing that they did, and I was really grateful that they did that. They were an amazing partner to to have done that and to sort of identify. Oh the. We haven't actually served the fandom well in doing this. And they corrected it and made sure that it's like available in perpetuity, which I, I very much have a lot of respect for. I don't really care about. Like mistakes are fine, people make mistakes. And as long as you're like owning up to them and you're like, sorry, cool. Yes. You know, I mean like it's. No, I am delighted that they, that it's kind of gone. How it's gone. And now it's really like I've never had any pushback from covers ever again. Like it's really just kind of like it is. And it's, and it's so crazy to me when I go into a bookstore, I'm like, why do they all, why, why do they all have like flowers in the background and like that hand paint, like that sort of look, a pastel title with the name then in a sans serif font. Like I'm like, what are we doing? It doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be like that. But I think that people, I guess the, the other thing I, I would say is like the, the industry doesn't, it's not a lucrative industry to be in. Like you, you can't be making books for the love of money. That much is true. And so I think that then as well, like when you're maybe on the fresher side of things, if they're saying, well this is going to be more successful, you're like, why you need to eat. So okay, like if you say so, there would be some rolling. So I think a lot of this has to come from the top where they just like someone somewhere needs to kind of just have a love of story like reinstilled in them and someone needs to be a little bit more risk taking in the decisions that they make. Because at the minute, you know, like the, the publishing industry has gone through trends. Like there was a time after Twilight where every fucking book was about werewolves. Like they just want to sell the things that sell. And so I think that, you know, we, it's always so interesting where like the sorts of things that publishers will push back on. Like my never publishers who I have an incredible relationship with and they, they're doing conditions of will. They're my US Publishers for those two books they have, they have sometimes the things that they will be like, oh, we need to like, you know, I have a book that's set in the uk and they were like. They changed all of the spelling to the US and they were like, you know, the Americans might know. I'm like, I think. I think it'll be okay, guys. Like, it's not that. You know, I think that this is funny thing in the. In the publishing industry, where it's like, let's serve the lowest common denominator. And Whereas my ethos with storytelling is always going to be like, no, let's serve the highest common denominator and ask, like, invite people to sit at the big boy table. Like, let's, you know, try to be that.
- [42:38]
Reggie
Yeah. Well, in reading your words, your covers, like, it's books are art. And I feel like your. Yours specifically, really emulate that.
- [42:51]
Jessa Hastings
Thank you.
- [42:52]
Reggie
To kind of go along with that. We. I mean, we've heard about, like, your inspiration and your story, which has been so inspiring. But I'm curious to know if there's any certain lines that you have written that personally have stuck with you and are your favorite or if there's ones that your readers you found, like, the most.
- [43:16]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah, the one that always comes to mind for me is I. It's Magnolia, I think, in the Long Way Home. And she says. He laughs. And it sounds like I'm ringing the doorbell of the house I grew up in. That, to me, was, like, sort of like a benchmark as far as, like, what I considered my standard of writing to be. And I remember when I was in a shopping center in Australia when that, like, popped into my head and I was like, wrote it down as quick as I could. That. That I think, is probably one of my favorite lines I've written. And that's the one that sort of, like, floats to the top of my mind. When asked that question, I get quoted back. What do I get quoted back a lot. I get quoted back. The thing about Christian knowing Daisy sparkles, too. I get a lot of. In another life, I get a lot.
- [44:24]
Mikaela
Of, how's the weather?
- [44:31]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah, I mean, I think I have. There are certain, like, segments I'm really proud of. I think I was always very. I don't feel like this ever gets the attention I personally feel like it deserves, but I really like the part. I think it's in book one. And BJ says something along the lines of, like, he'll love her in every. Like it. I'll love her in every spectrum of light, even the absence of it, like, that I adore. And there's another time he says something along the lines of, like, he'll. He'll die. He'll. He'll like. Like something like he'll crawl. Like, he'll. He doesn't care. Like, fuck it. He'll. He'll die in her arms or crawl, like, on the doorstep. Trying to get back into something like that. Those sorts of things are a little bit. Yes. Stick out in my mind and then there's. Never for me, was the funnest to write in so many ways. Getting to do sort of like taking abstract qualities and like, making them real and sort of like the imagination. How imagination rich. Never is. Is. Is such a delight. And I'm very proud of the baggage claim. I'm like, you're you. I don't toot my own horn very often, but I was like, yeah, that was a good one.
- [46:14]
Kennedy
Well, we. It's crazy because I feel like you're writing. We've talked a lot about Magnolia Parks, but your writing shines so well in Never. I don't the way you can write that whimsical environment. I felt like I was plopped into Neverland and I never left. It was crazy.
- [46:38]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah. That was like. I mean, never existed. Predated Magnolia by an infinity of time. Like, I think I thought of never. I was 18, so a good like 8, 6, 7. I can't remember how old I was when I wrote Magnolia now the first time. A long time. It existed a long time. So it was very developed in my brain by the time I started writing it. And it was also such, like, a personal feat because I care so much. Like, the Peter Pan story would have been like, one of the stories that really made me want to be a writer. Like, I was just so, like, floored by it. So I felt like a real, Like a weightiness to it. That. Yeah. I mean, it's so fun. Like, it's. It's. It's actually. It's not. Number two is hard. Like, it's a really. It's hard to write, but it is such a delight at the same time. Like, just to. To be there and to sort of get to do, like, the. The funny, abstract things of, like. I don't know if it's mentioned by name in book one, but it is essentially because it's what the. The baddie does at the end. But, like, the. The galactic black market for, like, the bottled ephemeral. I'm like, what. In what world do you get to say like that? Like, it's just. It is really fun. It's a fun, fun one. Even when it's emotionally disaster.
- [48:22]
Reggie
Yeah, that's accurate. Would you Say so I know Conditions of will comes out April 1st. Would you say there's a book that you would suggest people start with if they haven't read your books yet? What would you suggest?
- [48:37]
Jessa Hastings
Ooh, that's a great question. If you're wanting to not get sucked in and feel like you have to. Like, people usually are a bit like, with Magnolia, because you just have to know what happens. So if you don't have a ton of time, I would say starting with Conditions is great. Because it's a standalone or never, because I haven't written them to you, you can't get stuck. But I mean, as long as they're reading the MPU in order, I. I don't mind. I. Every now and then we'll hear these horror stories of people just reading, like, the Magnolias or the Daisies, and I'm like, what are you doing?
- [49:24]
Kennedy
Have you heard about people doing, like, tandem reads of your books? Have you seen that?
- [49:29]
Jessa Hastings
I have, and I actually think that would be such an interesting experience. I personally haven't done it. I sort of tandem wrote into the Dark End the Long Way. No, no, no. I get the names confused. Long Way Home and the Great Undoing were sort of written in tandem because I felt like I learned a lot from writing Magnolia and Daisy separately. And Magnolia was published before when I was writing Daisy, and there were things that I was like, fuck, I should have written them side by side and made sure everything was, like, perfect. Perfect. Like, the. The biggest one of that is by the. When I wrote Magnolia one, Daisy felt very much like she had. She was a brunette. But by the time I wrote Daisy one, I was like, oh, I think Daisy's a blonde. But it was done. And so now it's like, whenever people say to me, I don't know why I think Daisy's a blonde, I'm like, it was meant to be, but it was already published. And so, yeah, no, I. The tandem, in theory, it should work, but, I mean, God bless, it sounds exhausting.
- [50:45]
Mikaela
I know tandem read sounds not. I feel like you can't enjoy the books individually.
- [50:52]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah.
- [50:53]
Mikaela
To me, I think if you read.
- [50:54]
Jessa Hastings
Them before, it would maybe be interesting to then do a tandem read. Because there's, like, one of the things I did quite consciously, especially with Magnolia and Christian, who I consider to be, like, unreliable narrators, that there's, like, somewhere in between is there is the truth. So, like, in Magnolia's version of events, it's always going to be dramatized. In Christian's version, events always going to be dramatized. And so when they were telling different stories in Magnolia one and Daisy one, I knew myself that the truth lay somewhere in the middle. And so, like, there was. There was. It was always a conversation with the publishers. Whenever there would be a chapter that echoed a chapter that had been previously published, they'd be like, it's not identical. And I'm like, well, no, it's not meant to be because it's from the perspective of someone else. And like, the same way that if I. If I later on recall this conversation to my husband, I'm going to recall it differently to the way you guys are going to recall it, and you're going to latch onto certain parts and you're going to remember. Or she said this and this and this. And, like, the way that it will get reiterated back is going to be different. And so that was. There was an intentionality there. And I think that would be an interesting part for a tandem read to be like, oh, whoa, that is. You've. You've experienced that situation very differently. That would be an interesting part of the tandem read, I guess.
- [52:20]
Mikaela
That would be very interesting. I've never thought about that.
- [52:23]
Kennedy
That's actually genius. To keep it separate. That's so smart, kind of going along the same lines. Is there a certain charact that you've written that is harder? Like, it kind of sounds like Magnolia might have been maybe the easiest character because she's similar to you. Who has been the hardest character for you to write?
- [52:41]
Jessa Hastings
Oh. What's actually so devastating is it's a character I can't talk about yet. But there is a boy that I've written who was the hardest character I've ever written because he was so complex. And to have him remain true to himself but also be someone that you could still like. Like, that was a. Like, a genuine challenge. I'll come back and talk about it. Of the characters that exist. Hmm. Christian or Daisy probably are. No, Daisy's actually not that hard. Christian, maybe. Julian. So, like, the boys are always more of an effort to write for me than the girls. Trying to think. None of them feel impossible. The hardest one was that boy. And Peter was quite hard to write and never. But you never hear from his personal perspective. But it was just sort of like a painful thing to write him how I felt I had to write him. Yeah. I don't know. Sorry.
- [54:14]
Reggie
That wasn't.
- [54:14]
Kennedy
No, that was a great answer.
- [54:16]
Mikaela
That was great. I think it's so fun how each individual reader kind of attaches to, like, almost like a different character. Because I feel like we all have attached to, like, different characters, which I think is so fun to like. Yeah, it's fun for us all to like the same character, but I think it's even more fun when we have, like, different, you know, opinions about characters. And I just think it's great. And I think. Yeah, sorry. I just can't stop raving about you because you're just the best ever. And I love the way you write characters.
- [54:53]
Jessa Hastings
No, I. Thank you. Because some people don't that it's fair to say. Like, I know BJ's obviously a really controversial character. So much more than I ever could have anticipated. Like, I'm genuinely baffled most of the time about BJ's. People either love BJ or hate BJ. And I. Yeah, to me, he's just a. He's just human. And I think that that's one of those things where in the. In this. The larger picture of things, what has been a really interesting, like, commentary for me has been how quick as a society we have become at, like, tossing people away and, like, not wanting to give them a chance to evolve and be better. And, you know, that's not to say that every single person you give a chance to grow or evolve will take it and, you know, become better than they were. But he did, and he does. And I think it's. Yeah, I mean, I'm. I'm only interested in writing complex characters. Like, it's so fun. Like, it's so much more fun when, you know, a character is a little bit emotionally unhinged or they're, like, reactive or like, when you know a character really well and you're writing that character, getting to know that, like, there's certain buttons or, like, how that this. This will trigger this, which will trigger this person, which will trigger this person. It's like, for characters to feel like fully formed, fully fledged people, they have to be flawed. Like, it's very boring to read about a perfect guy. There's a reason that, you know, like, it's like, you don't. There's a reason TV shows end once the couples get together. You know what I mean? Like, this. Or they. If they don't end, they should have ended because it gets really boring. Like, you have to. People have to be human, and they have to. Yeah. I don't know. It. It is really crazy to me when people are like, you know, I don't think Magnolia is that likable. In book one, she is. And that was a real journey for me as it was a Lot of self reflection of, like, the earlier iterations of Magnolia were a lot more kind of, like, restrained because I knew she was a reflection of me and didn't want. I hadn't fully accepted all of the ways in which I was culpable in my youth for my own bad behavior. And. And it was like. It took a lot of growing up for me to be able to be like, she sucked. I sucked. I did that to boys. I like, that was my M.O. and now I'm kind of like, oh, I was 19. Like that. I'm 36 now. It doesn't matter. Like, I made mistakes in my youth. And I think that the. Yeah, the. The sort of, like, instinct that some authors might have to preserve the reputation or the light in which a character that is, like, viewed in only ever is a disservice to the story, because then it means, like, it's just not real.
- [58:40]
Reggie
Yeah. And that's what I love, is that it feels real and it. You get to, like, hold hands with these characters through so much. Like, I think of everything, every event that happens, especially, like, in Magnolia Parks. And to get to experience that on a different level than I've been able to experience things like that in other books is such a gift. I don't know if that really makes sense, but, yeah, you've done an excellent job capturing that and in your books. So, yeah, that means so much.
- [59:19]
Kennedy
I mean, I'm sure you've seen everybody compare your books to Gossip Girl, but when I. When I try to tell people about these, I'm like, yeah, it's like Gossip Girl, but genuinely, it's just the human experience. It's like experiencing your youth and finding out who you are and who your friends are, who they're not, and just going through trauma and finding your way through trauma. It's literally the human experience. And so if Magnolia was likable from the beginning, it would have been boring to look at Magnolia or any of the characters from book one to where they ended up. You see their character development, and you do that so well. The character development is unmatched.
- [59:58]
Jessa Hastings
Thank you. That's so nice. Thank you. No, I think it's really funny whenever people. The Gossip Girl comp. Is, like, inevitable because they're just, like, wealthy dummies. And I think where it. I think you can consume Magnolia and it appears. I don't know how, but I have noticed that there is a. There's a sect of people that can consume Magnolia, not dissimilar to how you would, like, consume reality tv. Where it feels like for the frivolous. And it's like a sort of, like, silly. Like, will they, won't they? Like, sometimes whenever I see it, like, pop on. Pop up on, like, a holiday beach read, I'm like, are you okay? Like, this feels over a really stressful vacation read, but okay, like, whatever. Do you that. I think there must be a way that you can kind of, like, if you're not looking for the depth in the characters, and I guess maybe in all fairness, I think that people, earlier on, before all of the books were out or where we're up to, were you. You could be the characters again. Like, I write for a long game. Like, I always knew Magnolia one was Magnolia one. I had already written Magnolia two, and I knew what was going to happen in Magnolia 3. And so for me, like, she was never who she was always going to be in book one. Neither was bj. I knew he had, like, BJ had to do what he did and had to go through the journey. They had to go through that for them to kind of, like, become who they become. But I don't think people are necessarily willing to go on a journey with people in general. Like, I feel like that's true. Like, people don't really want to give time and space for people to evolve, so why would they give that to characters and then as well? Like, yeah, I think if you're. If you're looking at the book from the frivolous point of view, then they're just unlikable characters. And that's fine because they are unlikable characters, but they're just human. Like, And I think you probably don't get to see. I think you. The depth of their humanity is probably not fully actualized until you're in the twos. And then you start being like, whoa, there's a lot of pain here. And then where I think people have really loved going back to book one is like, it's all mentioned by name. Like, it wasn't. Like, I was. Like, I knew what was gonna happen. Like, with what happened to BJ specifically. Like, that person's name is in book one. Like, he says it. And there's the same with, like, the other surprise in Book to the Long Way Home, where the. The thing with he and Magnolia, the thing that happens with him and Magnolia, like, that's by name as well. Like, there. It was always there. The humanity was always there. Which I think is, like, sort of the lesson that I hope people, like, take from the books is that you really only ever Know what? Someone is willing to tell you about themselves. And your relationship with Magnolia at that point in time in book one did not warrant you the knowledge that you are later granted in number two. So you are going on an emotional journey. Your relationship with Magnolia and the rest of the characters is developing as the series goes on, where she is trusting you more and more, bringing you further and further into the world. And then you're starting to be like, oh, my God, I didn't know. I had no idea. But isn't that just the way that it is with, like, people where you're like, that person can be, like, seem like such a bitch, and then you're. You talk to them and you're like, oh, my God, I had no idea. Like, that is. That's kind of the point. Like, you're meant to. It's like a primer for how we should just treat each other.
- [64:23]
Mikaela
Yeah, it's almost. It's almost like the more you get to know Magnolia, the more you start to, like, reveal the layers of her. And that's, like, literally meeting any people. I mean, we don't have the connection at. The connection we have now together was not the same that we had when we first met each other. So, like, yeah, yeah. It's the same with your characters and the readers how, like, you just get to know a little bit more, and you're like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I had that bad thought about Magnolia after you read some things, and you're like, I feel like such a terrible human being.
- [65:00]
Jessa Hastings
I take it back.
- [65:01]
Mikaela
Yeah, I take it back.
- [65:01]
Jessa Hastings
I take it back.
- [65:04]
Kennedy
Well, and I get so upset at people. I don't think this is a spoiler because it's, like, listed in the tropes. Whatever. I get so upset at people when they're like, I can't read the first Magnolia Parks book because there's a cheating trope. And I'm like, okay, but you guys don't understand this series, and these books are about so much more than that. Like, it's about so much more. And I wish people would understand. And hopefully, if. If you're a listener and you're listening to this, you understand just how much depth. Not even just the Magnolia Parks books, but all of your books have. It's about so much more than the little things and the service level things. Like, your books are so incredibly deep. I got my sister to read your series because she reminds me of Magnolia and I remind myself of Bridget. And so just, like, their relationship and some of the Things they went through is the same things me and my sister went through. And so we got to connect on such a deeper level through your books. And I wish people would just understand that, like, that's what your books can offer if they, for some reason, are like, I can't read it because of a cheating trope. It's so much more. So much more.
- [66:06]
Jessa Hastings
Do you know what's so funny is I didn't know about tropes when I wrote the books. And, like, I was like, remember the first time someone said that to me? I was like, huh? Googling. I was like, I'm not. I'm not. I'm. I'm not in that fiction space of, like, that just wasn't me. And so every now and then, I'll hear about my books having a certain trope. I'm like, you know, and I. I really didn't know. I. I mean, God, to this day, I still don't. Can't. Doesn't make sense to me that cheating is worse than murder. I'm like, okay, we're. I guess we're just gonna suspend reality on this one. I just. I don't get it. But that seems to be, like, a real thing in book world. I don't know if that's because, like, people know real cheaters and they don't know real murderers, but I guess in the tone of my books, like, everything is, like, paired to feel like real life to me. I'm not like, I hold BJ and Julian to the same standard. I do think, and I maintain the line that being a murderer is worse than being a cheater. Like, that's just. It's always. Is the company line, like, kill me if it's not on the House of Haste website. Like, murdering is worse than cheating? Yeah, it is.
- [67:42]
Mikaela
Yes.
- [67:46]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah. I don't know. It's. It's such a. The tropes thing is so fascinating to me. But I'm also like, I think if you're. I would imagine that the type of person that would not read a book because there was a cheating trope or something like that probably would struggle with BJ anyway, because I think that, you know, like, the book itself isn't actually, like, the cheating doesn't even take place in book one. It's like a historic cheating that's, like, unpacked as the story goes on. But I think if. If that is such a. A deal breaker, then it probably is just gonna. It will probably. It is a hard sell because it's so much of, like, you Just have to journey it through with, you know, like, and that's not the right thing for everyone to do. But that was Magnolia's decision. The only person who had to decide whether it was okay or not was Magnolia. She decided it was and she made it through. So, I mean, yeah, I think that the cheating trope is like, to me, it's like much of a muchness. Like to me, to me it's like he was, he was like 19 or something. Like it was like he was a boy. And I don't know. I honestly don't know many 19 year old boys that didn't do something like that at one point. Like, that's just, it's just a mad standard to hold the worst day or the worst thing you've ever done as. As like the, the beacon of like, this is who this person is. Like, if someone. That's me, I. No one would ever talk to me again. Like, it's a ridiculous standard for people. So, yeah, what were we talking about?
- [69:44]
Reggie
I don't know, but I'm loving it.
- [69:49]
Mikaela
No, I don't. I love how unserious you can kind of be with some of your characters. Because I know a lot of people have claimed that they are obsessed with Julian. And if I recall correctly, at one point you said, I could kill him. I could kill.
- [70:09]
Jessa Hastings
I. I literally, this was brought up to me at a dinner table the other day where they were asking about like. Because I still get, I still get the messages. Like people, they, they're straight. Like, you know, I know who these girls, I don't know if they don't realize that Instagram tells you when someone's made a new. A new profile. So I can see when it says profile created in February 2025, right after I've blocked the other person or like stopped the other responding to it, you know, so I'm like, let's. I can see what's happening. There's a pattern. But the other day I was like, the, the thing is that I feel like people forget is I know what happens. I'm only writing the book for everyone else at this point. I know the end of the story. I don't need to write it for me and I don't need the money. I'll give it back if you piss me off. And then blah, blah, blah will ever get it. I won't write the book if they annoy me too much. Like, I'm like, I'm getting there. I. On the weekend I got a message that had me be like, it. I'M just gonna give back the advance. I don't need the advance anymore. I'm pretty grumpy. Like, it'll be fine. And Ben was like, no, well, maybe not. This is what I'm gonna do. I know. I know what happens in the end. He's like, well, he's very reasonable. He's like, you might upset some people, I'm upset other people.
- [71:39]
Mikaela
Oh, my God. Well, I feel like that kind of like segments into like, kind of the pros and cons of you being so active on social media. Do you want to share some of the pros and cons of like. Because we, we love how much you share on, you know, your stories and you're just, you're just so funny and, and we love being able to see your personality because I feel like there are a lot of authors who just kind of are radio silent and just post when they are publishing a book. Yeah. And I feel like that's not fun. I want to know, like, I love.
- [72:15]
Reggie
Watching your lives with your walking around your kitchen cooking stuff. Like, it's cool. Yeah.
- [72:21]
Mikaela
Yeah. So tell us some of your pros and cons of like, being active. And then.
- [72:27]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah, I mean, the pros are 100% relational based. Like, I love getting to interact with kind people and wonderful people. And like, the vast majority of my readership are impossibly good people. And like, one of the things that brings me so much, like, pride and joy is that I've been told multiple times from people that, like, this is one of the nicest fandoms people have ever been a part of. Like, I see how supportive people are of one another and that makes me so happy. And I get told more than I would have ever, ever imagined that like, they. People have found their best friends through the books because they, you know, like, I don't know. I don't know how they do it, but they, like, I've been told that so many times and that is the, the absolute, such an unforeseen gift of this book for me. But I'm like, so honored and I love it so much. So the people for sure is. Is the best part of it. And like, I am. I have adhd. I think I said that before. I'm very fun driven. Like, I only care about having fun. Every decision I've made now that I'm like kind of in a comfortable career place is like, I make decisions. If it's fun, like, it's. That's what I do now. I don't work with people that I Don't want to work with. I don't do projects I'm not interested in doing. I don't take meetings I'm not interested in taking in. Like I just every. Otherwise I don't do it. I'm too busy. It has to be fun. And so social media I could never have, I could never just post my books all the time. That would be so boring. And so I just like, it is just fun for whatever. Like probably much to my dismay. Like I, I think I probably need like branding help because I'm, I'm.
- [74:29]
Reggie
No, it's so fun like your, your, your brackets that you do. What was the one you just did? The hottie.
- [74:35]
Jessa Hastings
Oh yeah, yeah, the hotties.
- [74:37]
Reggie
Oh I was, I was invested. I could not wait.
- [74:39]
Kennedy
I know.
- [74:39]
Jessa Hastings
Actually were messaging me about that. They were like the only reason I'm coming on Instagram right now is to find out.
- [74:45]
Reggie
Yeah, I like I tuned into your red carpet live. Like I just think it's so fun to get to talk to you like this but also see you online at a more personal level. And I know that it's not for everyone but it's just made me love you even more and yeah, it's just, it's just really fun to see. I just. Every time there's a story bubble of yours I'm like can't wait. I never know what I'm going to expect. It's so fun. I'm crying or I'm laughing or. Yeah, it's great.
- [75:17]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah, no, I, it is, it's just, it is literally for fun and that's the, the part of it that is like the pros. It's fun and the people and it's like so love. It's so lovely getting to interact with people and to be able to hear like what it means to people. Like the, it, it's the double edged sword is like the reason it's amazing is primarily people and the reason that it's terrible is primarily people. And it's luckily like mercifully the numbers are so tilted in the positive that it is, is okay. But like TikTok is like pretty scary for me. Like I don't really go on TikTok. I never, I like, I don't post videos anymore. I like will go and read comments and like sometimes like reply. But I was so. People just loved to hate me on Tick Tock. So that was like I've definitely experienced that side of like the Internet and I really don't understand, I really don't understand what I have Done. Or how I have portrayed myself in a way that makes people feel like my stories are open for a conversation. Like, I don't know what about me it is that gives off that energy. But, like, every day. Yeah, like I just said, I get a little bit closer to being like.
- [76:49]
Mikaela
Bitch, I won't write it.
- [76:51]
Jessa Hastings
I know.
- [76:52]
Mikaela
I just.
- [76:52]
Jessa Hastings
I know. I know how the story.
- [76:54]
Mikaela
I can't imagine messaging an author and saying, like, no, you wrote it wrong.
- [77:02]
Jessa Hastings
Crazy.
- [77:03]
Mikaela
I just think you're. You're the. You're the master.
- [77:05]
Jessa Hastings
What is it about me? Why do they think they can do that to me? I don't know.
- [77:09]
Reggie
Stop coming for our girl.
- [77:11]
Mikaela
Yeah, leave her alone. You. Yeah. And, I mean, I would. Yeah. I take your threat very seriously. So everyone who's listening, stop pissing her off, because I need. I want it, too. So I'm taking it very seriously.
- [77:28]
Kennedy
Or if you don't write the book, just you can DM us and tell us the ending.
- [77:32]
Mikaela
Yeah. Just give us a little synopsis. Be like, this is how it ends.
- [77:35]
Jessa Hastings
I'll give you the notes.
- [77:37]
Kennedy
Oh, no, but seriously, if you guys don't follow Jessa, you need to, because you're genuinely my favorite author to follow on social media.
- [77:45]
Reggie
It's so fun.
- [77:46]
Mikaela
The amount of times that we have, like, screenshotted your stories and didn't, like, oh, my gosh, look what Jessa just posted. It's so funny. We. We love it. It's. It's. You're keeping us entertained, and I truly think that life is meant to have, like, be fun, and, like, you're supposed to enjoy it. And so I just love that you're just, like, taking it. I just want to have fun. I just want to take life with a grain of salt and just be fun, which I think is fun.
- [78:14]
Reggie
Yeah. I need to be more like that. You know? That's how it should be.
- [78:17]
Mikaela
Yeah.
- [78:18]
Jessa Hastings
So, yes. Do it. Be fun. Have fun.
- [78:22]
Mikaela
That's what we strive to do on here. And sometimes people think we have too.
- [78:26]
Reggie
Much fun, and they're like, you need to be. Yeah.
- [78:28]
Mikaela
They're like, you need to be more serious. And we're like, but that's not fun.
- [78:31]
Reggie
Yeah.
- [78:32]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah, totally.
- [78:35]
Mikaela
Well, we'll.
- [78:37]
Jessa Hastings
We'll.
- [78:37]
Mikaela
We'll kind of wrap this up. We'll do, like, a rapid fire for the last few questions for you. I know you said you don't read very much, but are you currently reading anything?
- [78:47]
Jessa Hastings
I actually did try to prep for this answer. I was like, they're going to ask me what I'm Reading. And I'm not going to have anything interesting to say. I did order coming because I really only read science or history books. I have coming this afternoon. Neil DeGrasse, Astrophysics for People in a hurry. So that will be my next.
- [79:08]
Mikaela
Wow.
- [79:08]
Jessa Hastings
That's the kind of thing that I. I read. Yeah.
- [79:12]
Kennedy
I love that.
- [79:13]
Mikaela
Wow. You must be. I just would love to pick your brain all day because it seems like you just read. That's. I don't think I could ever read that. But I love that. Those are really fun for you.
- [79:30]
Jessa Hastings
You could. If you're in a heart, you could. It's. No, it's the. I just like science.
- [79:35]
Mikaela
No, I don't. I love it. I'm just not a very smart person. Maybe that would like.
- [79:40]
Jessa Hastings
No, you are. It's just. It's. No. I don't know why I. The science. I feel like there's such a large largest like this story in science and that's what's. That's what interests me. Like I. I find a lot of metaphors in it.
- [79:55]
Mikaela
Yeah.
- [79:55]
Jessa Hastings
So like an art in science that I really like.
- [79:59]
Mikaela
Yeah. Yeah. Continue. Because obviously it's like.
- [80:02]
Kennedy
It's working for you.
- [80:02]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah.
- [80:03]
Mikaela
It's working into your writing and I love it.
- [80:04]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah.
- [80:04]
Reggie
And you should read what you're interested in.
- [80:06]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah.
- [80:06]
Mikaela
No, I love it.
- [80:07]
Reggie
Yeah. What are some of your current obsessions right now? Like a snack, A show.
- [80:12]
Jessa Hastings
Oh. Oh my God. A snack. Okay. I'm balls deep in mini Oreos.
- [80:17]
Mikaela
Oh, yum.
- [80:19]
Jessa Hastings
And I don't know why, but they hit so much better than a regular Oreos.
- [80:23]
Kennedy
It's like the cookie dough and the.
- [80:26]
Jessa Hastings
Ratio or whatever it is. I'm very, very into mini Arios. Disastrously into them. I. I guess. So that would be my go to snack right now. And then there's this brand of chicken tenders called Bell and Evans.
- [80:43]
Reggie
Okay.
- [80:43]
Jessa Hastings
Which is like the only thing I like when I have my ADHD medicine. It switches off all of my like eating cues and like drinking cues. And so then I just. As I have like infinity of these boxes in my fridge and I'll just know I have to cook these at 1pm Whether I want them or not. And then I'll eat them and I'll be fine and I won't faint. But that's like my. Yeah, those would be my current. My current go. I love it. As far as.
- [81:13]
Reggie
Yeah, I love it.
- [81:14]
Mikaela
And then we have to ask this question. You can be as vague as you want. What are your Future plans after April 1? After April 1. But if you can't say, or if people piss you off, we get it.
- [81:31]
Jessa Hastings
Or maybe.
- [81:32]
Kennedy
Maybe it's that you got a vacation coming up or anything. Doesn't have to be writing related.
- [81:36]
Mikaela
Yeah.
- [81:37]
Jessa Hastings
Okay. Most of my plans are writing related. I. I do have some writing plans, almost all of which I am not allowed to talk about, but I will. Or all I will say is that I think that there's a. There'll be a surprise this year.
- [82:00]
Reggie
Oh, okay.
- [82:01]
Mikaela
That's so fun. I can't wait.
- [82:07]
Jessa Hastings
No, it's really good, actually. It's my. I think it's maybe my favorite thing I've ever written.
- [82:11]
Mikaela
Oh, even better.
- [82:13]
Jessa Hastings
When I sent it to her, she said, this is my favorite new reference.
- [82:17]
Kennedy
Oh, now I'm anxiously awaiting. Yeah, I can't wait.
- [82:21]
Reggie
Put us on our toes.
- [82:22]
Mikaela
Oh, my gosh. Well, I know we're all so excited for Conditions of Will, and we're, like, just waiting for April 1st to come. We can't wait to know it was.
- [82:35]
Jessa Hastings
April 1st until last week.
- [82:36]
Reggie
Oh, so that's right.
- [82:37]
Jessa Hastings
That's like, so.
- [82:38]
Mikaela
It is. It is. And we just can't wait to be in your writing again. Just be, like, immersed in your story.
- [82:48]
Jessa Hastings
I think it will surprise people. I think it's. It's like a. It's not. It's. There's a bit of a mystery.
- [82:57]
Mikaela
So do you want to tell us a little bit, like, about it?
- [83:01]
Jessa Hastings
Yeah. It's about this girl called Georgia. She is a body language expert. So she, like, reads people, knows when they're lying. Like, she is called into, like, corporate scenarios, can tell when someone's lying. It's the. She's been trained under, like, one of the best. And so she has this skill set and a very dysfunctional family and has to go back to her hometown in the south that she hasn't been to in a very long time. And it's right after the death of her father, with whom she had a very estranged relationship with. And it takes place over, like, the course of, I don't know, like, two or three weeks. And it's. It's really interesting. Like, it's a. It's a really interesting read because of what happens, because of how she reads people. So there's, like, a lot of the tension in a story is often like a will they, won't they? Or does he like me? Does. You know, that's a big part of most stories. But because of her skill set, she knows very quickly where she stands with her romantic interest. And so it was a real challenge to write. It was really interesting to write. And I feel like it's, it's, it's really. It's a. I'm trying to. I'm trying to think if it gives it away or if I want to give. If this gives anything away. To me, it feels like, you know, when did you guys watch Nobody Wants this? And we were all losing our minds because Adam Brody was so, like, emotionally well adjusted. It's not dissimilar to that. So it's like, it's a. It's. He is the. The boy is very different to my normal type of boy that I write. He's quite actualized, and she's quite actualized as well. And so it's a really interesting type of story. It's, it's, it's. It's different and it still feels like me and there's still all of the metaphors and the, like, the oversharing. But it is, you know, like, I would say a huge part of like, Magnolia or like, I would say none of the Magnolia books would exist if any of those characters had gone to therapy before. Into the dark. Like, you know, I mean, like, they're just not healthy, well adjusted people. They are healthy, well adjusted people. The two main characters in Will. So it's a really interesting place.
- [86:03]
Reggie
Yeah, we're looking forward to it. And especially just even getting to hear more of your writing process and how your brain works. I am even more excited. So. Yeah. Where can people connect with you? I mean, they know your books now from this episode. Where can they connect with you online and all the things.
- [86:24]
Jessa Hastings
I think. I mean, I don't. I don't know what my TikTok is because I don't use it very much. My Instagram is Jessa Hastings.
- [86:32]
Reggie
Perfect. Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes so people can go follow you because we encourage them to. And yeah, everyone, listening conditions will April 1st. And thank you so much again for taking this time. It was truly a pleasure. So thank you.
- [86:51]
Jessa Hastings
Thank you. Me too.