Blind 8-Year-Old Describes Heaven the Same as Sighted People

Summary

Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke

Episode: Blind 8-Year-Old Describes Heaven the Same as Sighted People
Date: May 19, 2026
Guest: Brad Burrows
Host: John Burke

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Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, John Burke discusses one of the most astonishing and evidential types of near-death experiences (NDEs): those experienced by people blind from birth who report vivid visual perceptions during their NDEs. Burke shares an in-depth interview with Brad Burrows, blind since birth, who at age 8 clinically died for four minutes and experienced a profound journey that aligns with Biblical descriptions of Heaven. The episode explores Brad’s experience, its spiritual implications, and how these accounts—echoed by both blind and sighted people—form compelling evidence for life after death and the reality of Heaven.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brad’s Background: Blind from Birth

• [02:34] Brad explains his blindness:
  • Born totally blind; neither eye developed properly in the womb.
  • Has eyes, but with undeveloped irises and pupils—no vision or visual imagery.
  • Dreams and imagination are completely non-visual; relies on sound, touch, and occasionally smell.
  • Quote:

    “All my images, whether awake or asleep, are non-visual, completely non-visual.” —Brad Burrows [04:20]

2. The Near-Death Experience (NDE)

• Setting: Brad was 8, in a treatment center for blind children when his heart stopped for 4 minutes due to severe pneumonia.
• Sequence:
  1. Intense fear and loss of breath, replaced by a sudden peace.
  2. Feeling of rising out of his body, moving upward through the building and roof.
  3. Perceives traffic and trolleys visually for the first time, with moving lights and changing perspective—details impossible for someone blind.
     • Quote:

       “I could tell traffic was moving … I knew I could hear some things, but I could tell it was moving without even hearing it.” —Brad Burrows [05:07]

  4. Entered a narrowing, steep, dark tunnel—his first experience of visual darkness.
  5. Emerged into a radiant, lush meadow with impossibly tall trees; everything emanated and was wrapped in light.

3. The Nature of Heavenly Light

• [13:24] Brad’s description of the light:
  • Light was not just ambient but literally filled, radiated from, and surrounded everything—grass, trees, even soil.
  • The light felt alive, loving, and was not harsh to look at; it was an ecstatic experience.
  • Quote:

    “It was a light that literally entered me and literally pervaded my entire being … a brilliant, brilliant color … a love like I’d never ever known before.” —Brad Burrows [13:24, 24:58]

4. Encounter at the Gate

• Encounters a multicolored archway and a tall, male, angelic being (~9 ft tall) blocking the way.
• The angel communicates telepathically: “Brad, it’s not your time yet … you have a mission to fulfill on earth.”
• Brad resists, drawn to the love and light, but agrees to return and is instantly transported back to his body.
  • Quote:

    “As soon as I began to agree … boom, I was back on my bed.” —Brad Burrows [20:53]

5. The Aftermath: Psychological & Spiritual Impact

• Struggle with Depression: Despite the NDE, Brad experienced significant emotional struggles, including suicidal thoughts as a teen.
• Conversion Experience: Prompted by a peer’s encouragement, Brad prayed in desperation and felt physically enveloped by warmth and love, accompanied by a voice (“love”). This marked his spiritual rebirth and start of a relationship with Christ.
  • Quote:

    “I believe at that moment I was quite literally born again. Though I didn’t know the vocabulary at the time.” —Brad Burrows [33:29]

6. The Connection Between Near-Death Experiences of the Blind and the Biblical Heaven

• Blind NDErs (like Brad and Vicki) describe strikingly similar perceptions of light, love, and the environment—even without prior visual memories.
• Their descriptions closely match scripture:
  • Light coming from all directions; not a single source like the sun.
  • Light is synonymous with love and life (Revelation 21, Isaiah, John’s Gospel).
• [24:58] Brad’s insight:
  • The love and light felt in Heaven is overwhelming and pervades everything.
  • On earth, humans could not physically handle even a fraction of that love and light.

7. Shared Experiences Across NDErs

• Brad and Vicki (also blind from birth) shared an immediate, deep connection and awe—a unique camaraderie based on the sheer magnitude and indescribability of the experience.
  • Quote:

    “The awe, the tremendous sense of awe in trying to describe the indescribable, trying to measure the immeasurable…” —Brad Burrows [37:55]

• Not only do blind NDErs say these things, but so do sighted NDErs, further confirming the consistent nature of these accounts.

8. Music and Worship

• Heavenly music was a central feature—thousands of voices singing praise in languages unknown to Brad.
• Profoundly influenced Brad’s life and faith, leading him to become a worship leader and musician.
  • Quote:

    “Music is essential in my life … to glorify God and praise Him through music is a far greater joy than I could ever have imagined.” —Brad Burrows [36:25]

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Heavenly Light:

  “The grass and the trees and anything else in that meadow were literally pervaded, were bathed, were literally wrapped in that light.” —Brad Burrows [01:13; 21:38]

• On Love:

  “Concurrent with the light was a love like I’ve never ever known before … a love that was far beyond description.” —Brad Burrows [24:58]

• On Human Limitation:

  “There's no way, being in it—there's no way I could escape it even if I wanted. I was in it. It was in me and it was everything.” —Brad Burrows [21:38]

• On Describing the Experience:

  “Trying to describe the indescribable, trying to measure the immeasurable, trying to imagine the unimaginable.” —Brad Burrows [38:26]

• On His Mission:

  “He told me in thought again that if I were to allow that love to pervade my life I would see this place again, and that I had a mission to fulfill on earth.” —Brad Burrows [17:24]

• On Return to Life:

  “As soon as I began to agree and say, ‘OK, all right, I’ll go back,’ as soon as I thought that, boom, I was back on my bed.” —Brad Burrows [20:53]

---

Segment Timestamps

• Introduction to Brad & NDEs in the Blind: [00:53–04:20]
• Brad’s Story & Blindness Background: [02:08–04:45]
• Description of the NDE: [05:07–15:35]
• The Light of Heaven: [13:21–15:28]; [21:26–24:58]
• Encounter at the Gate/Angel: [17:24–20:53]
• Transformation & Struggles Post-NDE: [29:00–33:29]
• Connection with Other Blind NDErs: [37:32–40:48]
• Theological Reflection and Scriptural Alignment: [41:15–58:10]
• Final Reflections and Takeaways: [41:32–44:56]

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Key Takeaways

• Blind NDErs experience vision in ways neither science nor “brain-based” explanations can currently explain; their reports feature visual, emotional, and spiritual elements indistinguishable from those of sighted NDErs.
• Descriptions of Heaven from blind individuals match remarkably with scriptural accounts, especially regarding the enveloping light, love, and radiant life coming from all things.
• The sustaining message: Ultimate love, belonging, and purpose await, available not through extraordinary experiences, but through embracing God’s freely given love—accessible to all.
• Personal transformation does not eliminate life’s struggles; faith and relationship with Christ provide strength and hope amidst difficulty.
• Music, worship, and the community of believers help mediate the experience of heavenly love on earth.

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Notable Scriptural Parallels Discussed

• Isaiah: “The sun will no more be your light by day… for the Lord will be your everlasting light.”
• Revelation 21: "The holy city ... has no need for sun or moon ... for the glory of God gives it light."
• John 8:12: “I am the light of the world.”
• Daniel 12, Matthew 13: “The righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s kingdom.”

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Closing Thoughts

Brad’s testimony offers not only “hard-to-dismiss” evidence for the afterlife but also a living model of faith under adversity. John Burke emphasizes that these consistent descriptions among blind and sighted NDErs point to a spiritual reality more wondrous and loving than we dare imagine—and one that anyone is invited to enter.

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For extended accounts and further stories, John Burke refers listeners to his books Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven.

Transcript

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Come join our sweat sesh on TikTok. You know, one of the most convincing evidential aspects of near death experience is when people blind from birth say that

[John Burke]

they can see during their near death

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

experience and they describe visual details and things that they should not have known. Well, today I'm going to let you hear a full interview I did years ago with Brad Burrows, who at age 8 was in a special treatment center for blind children when his heart stopped for four minutes.

[Brad Burrows]

The grass and the trees and anything else in that field, in that meadow were literally pervaded, were bathed, were. We're literally wrapped in that light.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

And what Brad describes that he saw in this near death experience will amaze you. And at the end, we're going to talk about some of the spiritual truths that Brad brings up, how what he describes aligns with scripture and how it can all help you live your best life today. And you know, if you're still skeptical of all this, of faith, God, all that, well, pay attention because this is going to give you evidence Heaven is real and it's better than you ever imagined. Well, I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times best selling book Imagine Heaven, and this is the Imagine Heaven podcast.

[John Burke]

Well, hey Brad, thanks so much for taking some time to talk to me today.

[Brad Burrows]

Thank you, John.

[John Burke]

Yeah, and sorry we couldn't get the video working, but that's, that's kind of how life goes. So I wanted to talk to you about your near death experience, but maybe even before you get to that, just

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

tell us a little bit about yourself.

[John Burke]

You, you were born without eyesight and

[Brad Burrows]

I was born totally blind. Yes, correct.

[John Burke]

What, what caused that?

[Brad Burrows]

Actually, my neither eye developed correctly before I was born. And so the eye components, that the parts within my eye never really became distinguishable. I do have eyes, they're clearly there, but there's no clear pupil. The iris is almost indistinguishable. Very hard to find. And the eyes themselves never fully developed to the point of actually being able to operate normally. And being the middle child in the family of three, I was the only one who ended up with that kind of total blindness. Both my brothers have 2020 vision.

[John Burke]

Well, you know, something happened, I think it was in the, the, the 60s and 70s where a lot of babies got too much oxygen and something happen to their optic nerve.

[Brad Burrows]

I was never, I was never put in an incubator, so that was not my case.

[John Burke]

Okay, but you've never, you've never had any, any eyesight at all, any visual perception?

[Brad Burrows]

I never have.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

So a lot of people who, you

[John Burke]

know, were born with sight don't understand this, but people who were born blind, you don't, you don't have mental images like, or dream in pictures or anything like that, do you?

[Brad Burrows]

No. My, all my images, whether being, whether awake or asleep, are non visual, completely non visual. In fact. I. In my dreams, for instance, I can hear and I can touch. In my dreams I have a tactile sense and I have a sense of smell on rare occasion in my dreams, but I have no visual sense whatsoever.

[John Burke]

So when, when you were 8, you had a near death experience and, and suddenly could see?

[Brad Burrows]

I actually was able to see through much of the experience, yes.

[John Burke]

So tell us, tell us about that.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

Tell us what that was, what happened

[John Burke]

that night and what was that like?

[Brad Burrows]

Sure, sure. I remember while I was struggling to breathe, having what I thought was a cold, and it turned out to be a lot more like pneumonia, I first of all became frightened that I would not be able to breathe. And my breathing stopped altogether. And after that very frightening moment or two, I have no idea exactly how long it felt, except it was very, extremely scary. I very quickly developed a sense of tremendous peace, as if everything was going to be very, very good for me. And I had no idea why I was feeling it, except that I was. And the next thing I noticed, and this was again without any vision whatsoever, I started, my body started lifting off the bed that I was resting on, or shall I say something in me was lifting off. My actual body was still on the bed, but I started enter. Going slowly upward through the room that I was in, through the ceiling, through another room where someone was occupying a bed, but I didn't get a chance to look very much, but through that ceiling and the roof of the building. And then I started noticing that I could tell traffic was moving slowly and awkwardly on a street that was bordering this building. But I Couldn't figure out how I knew the traffic was moving. I knew I could hear some things, some of the traffic, but I could tell it was moving without even hearing it. And I thought this was peculiar, very peculiar. And there were different shades of light constantly moving with. Along with the cars. And there were street.

[John Burke]

Let me ask you something for just a second because you later found out the. The nurse did CPR on you for.

[Brad Burrows]

Yes.

[John Burke]

Like four minutes.

[Brad Burrows]

Yes.

[John Burke]

Like you were dead for four minutes.

[Brad Burrows]

I was dead for four minutes, yes.

[John Burke]

And.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

And when you were.

[John Burke]

This is a home for. A home for the blind when you

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

were 8 years old, is that right?

[Brad Burrows]

It was a school for the blind for. It was a treat. It was a treatment center for blind individuals. Blind children with sometimes with other disabilities as well. And I was in there because of my own particular issues. But here was still rising up through the air. And the cars, the vehicles were getting smaller as perspective was changing. There were even streetcars. There were trolleys along the same street going up or down this track in the middle of the street, or a set of tracks. And I could tell what. How they were moving on these tracks. But as I was rising, every vehicle was shrinking in size. And then I found myself entering a very, very fast moving, whirling tunnel. And as I was entering this tunnel, it began to narrow, the tunnel itself. It was a very steep rising tunnel, but I was almost effortlessly rising through it. And while I was in that tunnel, there was nothing visual striking me at all. I. It was. You would describe it as dark, completely dark. And. And yet for me, that was my normal vision anyway. So I thought of it as just peculiar, everything being new to me. I got to a narrow point of the tunnel and wondered how I was going, whether I was going to get stuck in that tunnel. But somehow I got through it. And Let me ask you.

[John Burke]

I'm sorry, Brad. Let me ask a question. What are you thinking at this point?

[Brad Burrows]

I'm. I'm. I am thinking I'm about to be crushed. I'm thinking I'm about to disappear into this tunnel. I'm thinking, oh, you're dead.

[John Burke]

Do you think you're dead?

[Brad Burrows]

I think I. By that time, I. By the time actually that I have this sense of peace, I thought this must. This must be what it's like to have to die. This must be what it's like to actually live as a dead person. Or at least to be a dead person.

[John Burke]

And you realize you were visually perceiving things.

[Brad Burrows]

I knew that I was experiencing a sense that I never Experienced before. How could I know about traffic going up and down streets or a trolley when the only right or trolley when the only thing I knew as a living person was how they sounded?

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

Right.

[Brad Burrows]

Or. Yes, basically. So I. This was all without really hearing them. And that was puzzling to me. And I remember.

[John Burke]

I remember at another point when we talked. Didn't you tell me that you actually

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

saw your roommate

[John Burke]

get up and stumble out trying to get help when he heard you gasping for breath?

[Brad Burrows]

Yes, yes, but that was audio. That was not visual. That was not. That was before I died. That was before my actual death. And he was coming out, and I heard him getting up, but I didn't see him.

[John Burke]

Okay,

[Brad Burrows]

yes. So that was all audio. That was. That was strictly from what I could hear. But by this point, as I was going through this tunnel, when the tunnel started to widen again and I realized, oh, I'm making it through. I'm gonna get through. I noticed ahead of me, and again, it was only sort of like vision, really. Something like what I could only describe as vision. But I knew there was an open meadow ahead of me, very steep in terms of grade. It was a very. I couldn't have done a hill like that easily back on the earthly plane back here. But I noticed I was coming out into it. And as the meadow was becoming more and more clear to me, I started noticing very tall trees and tremendously impressive height of the trees. Just not really knowing how to measure them. They were far greater, far higher than I could ever picture a tree. And yet these were things I never was touching. I was only noticing them through what I can only call vision, definitely. And. And then I knew the grass was amazingly lush and very alive. And by that time, I started noticing also that there was not only light shining at me, but there was literally light emanating out of me as well. And I thought, this is something I don't know how to explain. Not at all. And yet there it was. And I was as if I was totally bathed in that light. And that. The light.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

Yeah, Describe.

[John Burke]

Describe that light.

[Brad Burrows]

Sure. I will do it as best I can because it is in many respects beyond most description, but it was. It was a light that literally entered me and literally pervaded my entire being, my. At that time. And it was. It was as if. It was as if it was a very. Extremely bright whiteness of light. And it was a. It was a. It was color. A brilliant, brilliant color. Like I had never. Again, I'd never known any light like this before, but it was so bright that I got the impression that if I were to notice it anything like this on my normal earthly plane, it would be far more than I could take, far more than I could possibly soak in. And yet, during that time, I had no problem soaking it in. In fact, I loved it. I thought I. I just felt like I was part of that light as the light was shining in and on me at once. And. But again, much of what I noticed I couldn't even describe at all. It was far beyond that description. Oh, by the way, by this time, I was starting to hear the music, the singing, the thousands of voices singing. But what's weird is I could not. I did not see them. I did not visualize them at all. It was as if they were in the distance. And yet I was coming closer and closer to them. And I wanted to come moving. I was moving fast, was moving rapidly

[John Burke]

up this long hill, up a hill. And. And this is like.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

Is this like a valley?

[John Burke]

And. And what does it look like?

[Brad Burrows]

It looks like to me. This. It looked to me like the side of a very high mountain. I was actually climbing up the side of possibly from a valley upward in a very steep grade. Tremendously steep. But I. But then I got to this don't

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[Brad Burrows]

Another thing I noticed was a gate. An archway, actually, more accurately. And I could tell the archway because one thing that was peculiar about it was it had a multitude of colors, many different kinds of colors. And because I didn't know how to describe the colors, those were brilliant in themselves, but I had no idea how to take them in, not at all. And. And yet there were many different colors. And. And the archway itself began to get narrow just to the point where I. Where I could barely fit through standing up through this archway. And then at that point, I noted ahead of me a very imposing, very tall figure. If I had. If I were to estimate it now, it would have been somewhere around nine feet in height, tremendous tall tallness. And one of his arms. I say his because it had a male like voice, very much so. But one of his arms reached out to me and stopped my forward progress immediately. It didn't hurt at all. Amazingly enough, I was rushing up this hill. But when he stopped me, it didn't hurt. It just shocked me. And I noted how strong and how powerful and how tall this figure was. And just having thought about it afterward, it comes to my mind that it's very close to an angelic figure. Couldn't say if it was God, but it was definitely an angel of some sort, or at least very likely. And I noticed him, and he started speaking to me in thought. It was not in an actual voice, but it was more like thought saying, brad, and it's not your time yet. And I thought to myself, why? Why not? I want to be here. There's some more love and more light and more now than I could ever even think of. I. I want to be here. I want to go further. And he told me in thought again that if. If I were to allow that love to pervade my life, I would see this place again. And that I had a mission to fulfill on earth. And it. And that's why it was not my time yet. And it took me a moment. I didn't know quite how to respond, but I could not say no. I could not say no to it. I could tell there was a great deal of love in what he was telling me. And as soon as I began to agree and. And say, okay, all right, I'll go back. As soon as I thought that, boom, I was back on my bed.

[John Burke]

Immediately back in your physical body.

[Brad Burrows]

On my physical body. Wow. Immediately, yes. I didn't even know how fast I went through. Back through the same route that I went through because I, it was that fast. It was as if it was that it was. If you remember in the Book of Acts, Philip, in the Book of Acts, how he was suddenly translated. Yeah. He went from one desert place and boom, he was in a zotas. Just like that. Yeah. That was what it was like for me. Yes.

[John Burke]

So take me back for a second back in that meadow and describe the light and how it, how it worked in everything in that meadow.

[Brad Burrows]

The grass and the trees and anything else in that field, in that meadow were literally pervaded, were bathed, were, were literally wrapped in that light. And the light was actually so much a part of every plant that was there, every, even the soil that was underneath that it was, it was not, it was not like we would see it in one particular place. Like you would look in one direction and see a particular light. It was literally everywhere, quite literally everywhere. And there was no way being in it. There's no way I could escape it even if I wanted. It was, I was in it. It was in me and it was everything.

[John Burke]

How is it different than what you had felt of light on Earth

[Brad Burrows]

instead of being. Well, the closest I could come to it was, would be probably sunlight. And knowing that one could be out in the sun and feel the heat and know that the light was coming from a very particular direction. The difference was that here it was coming from all directions and that was overwhelming in itself. Literally anywhere I could point, anywhere I could walk, it was there every direction, period. Going up, going down into the ground. Literally, it was everywhere.

[John Burke]

And what's interesting, you know, on Earth, light like that, it's, it's,

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

you know,

[John Burke]

you can't really look at it.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

But was it, was it hard to

[John Burke]

look at things or were they clear?

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

Could you look at them?

[Brad Burrows]

I could look at them easily. I had no problem looking. I, I, there was no difficulty looking. I did not feel compelled to look. I wanted to. It was fascinating to me because looking in itself was fascinating to me. I just, I did not know about looking before this experience at all. I had heard the word of course, and I used those words. I did. I remember using sight language all the time. And yet here I was wanting to look. And I was in a setting where it was not difficult at all to look. I wanted to. It was a pleasure of great joy to be able to have that ability to look. And yeah, definitely.

[John Burke]

You know, what's interesting is how many other near death experiencers, both blind and sighted, have described the light of this heavenly place coming out of everything and Some of them have said to me

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

that the light was palpable. Like it was light, but it was

[John Burke]

also love and life, like.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

Like all together.

[John Burke]

Did you experience anything like that?

[Brad Burrows]

Every bit of it. Every bit of it. Yes, there was. In fact, that was the one thing I recalled besides the light itself. Concurrent with the light was a love like I never ever known before. And a love that was far beyond description and, and life, oh, lifelike life, like no other life I would have experienced here on this planet, literally. And it's. And yes, the love was just overwhelming. I. I'm absolutely convinced that were someone to note that love, any kind of love like that here on our currently current earthly plane, we'd be consumed immediately just like that, because we would not know in our fleshway bodies, our physical bodies, how to handle, how to experience that kind of love. It would just be far beyond us. And yet here, yet where. Where I was going, it was the norm. It was absolutely the norm. It was expected. He just. That was. The love was just. I think of you probably remember the hymn called the Love of God. The third verse of it comes to my mind very vividly. And this is about the closest I can come to a description of this kind of love. I'm almost. I've got some tears coming up, that's all. But I think of the. The verse actually says if. If we. With. Could we with ink the ocean fill and were the skies of parchment made Were every stalk on earth a quill and every man a scribe by trade to write the love of God above would drain the oceans dry. Nor could the scroll contain the hole though stretched from sky to sky. And that is about as close description as I can ever get while still being here. But up there it was normal. It was something that just pervaded everything and you didn't even question it. It was there, just totally there. And we. And I'm absolutely persuaded. And now having lived for, oh, almost 50 years, 48 years with the knowledge of Christ in my life, I. I can tell you that just that that love is available easily, very readily to those of us who just say yes to Christ, those of us who just simply give ourselves to him and to the love he is more than willing to shower us with and to put into our being. Literally, it's. And yeah, but that third verse of that hymn, the Love of God is about as close a description as I can give you.

[John Burke]

That's beautiful.

[Brad Burrows]

Without being there.

[John Burke]

That's beautiful.

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[John Burke]

Yes, and you know today I know you are a worship leader. You play piano and lead worship in your church and when you came back you, you did come to faith in Christ.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

How did that help? How did that happen?

[John Burke]

And, and then how did describe again the music of heaven and how did that influence you doing what you're doing today?

[Brad Burrows]

Let me start with the music if I may. When I heard the singing and I heard these thousands of voices and what sounded like multiple languages or maybe one language that I didn't understand, all singing, I knew that they were singing praise of some sort. Praise to some, some glorious creator that I did not know at all. Not really as I mean I had an 8 year old kid as an 8 year old kid who was going, who was learning a particular religious tradition that really didn't teach this, not at all. And, and so I mean for when I heard that music I knew I wanted to be part of that music. I wanted to be so badly. Well just in a very snapshot sort of way. The ages of 13 and 14. I was at another school for the blind at the time and went into two years of very major depression and actually tried to commit suicide once and was about to do it again at the age of 15. Wow. But I knew I had this impression that I needed to. Oh actually a year before, about the age of 14. A dear student and I'll always thank God for her, she's still alive, still very much with us. Her name was Sharon suggest urged me to really seek Christ and that Jesus really wanted to change my life and that all I needed to do was just reach out and say yes and be ready for whatever he wanted to do with me. At the age of 15 I was getting ready to possibly do myself in again. But this time I just, I. Something in me clicked and I remember what Sharon had told me the year before and so I started praying in desperation. Something like this, God help. And I remember screaming it and my mother got noted wind of it and said are you okay? Are you okay? And I said yes, I was okay. I lied. I was not okay, not at all. Because my next quiet breathy prayer was you know what I'm, you know what I'm in for Lord, Lord, you know, you know, God, I need you. I need you desperately. Because I don't know where else to look. And I just kept on babbling and babbling like that, like, help me, I'm desperate. I need you. Well, when I started noticing a very light touch on the top of my head, I, I, oh that, that got my attention immediately because that touch started wrapping itself around me from my upper, from the upper part of my head, through my face, down my shoulders, down my chest, through my back, all through my entire body, including my feet, which were actually cold before that touch started. And now everything was bathed in a warm, very beautiful, very loving blanket. Blanket that was surrounding my entire being. And then I heard an audible voice was very clear to me. And I remember it only said one word, love. And as soon as I heard that word, the blanket disappeared just as quickly, much more quickly than it ever wrapped around me. It was as if I got the very clear sense God heard my prayer at that moment. And I believe at that moment I was quite literally born again. Though I didn't know the vocabulary at the time. Right. But I knew that something had vividly changed in my life. And within the next few minutes my thoughts relived my near death experience.

[John Burke]

And what that angel told you in, in the gate of, I think probably was the gate of the holy city.

[Brad Burrows]

It was a very profound gate and I do believe it could have been. Yes.

[John Burke]

I mean, I remember reading at one point about your account and you, you talked about, you, you came up that hill to a wall and then the

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

gate was in the wall.

[Brad Burrows]

The gate was actually in the wall.

[John Burke]

And what was, what was the wall like?

[Brad Burrows]

Taller than I could imagine. It was very tall. Far, far taller. I could, because I could actually get a visual imprint or visual image of the wall. I tried to figure out if there was a top to it and I couldn't see it. I could not see the top. And yet there was a gate in this wall. And, and the wall seemed to go on for, well, for some distance. So much of a distance that I couldn't even tell either from the left or to the right, but it was a straight out wall. I was only noticing, of course, that part of the wall that was on both sides of the gates and how high the wall was. And I could not tell how high it was. It was way higher than I could imagine. I now know about the biblical, the biblical. Well, when John tried to describe the apostle John in Revelation. Yeah. And about the cube shaped city and about the Fact that it was 1500ft high, literally. And I thought to myself, no one. I have thought to myself since then many times. No wonder I couldn't. I couldn't tell how high it was. I had no idea. And as a little kid, I had no way of knowing. I just knew it was higher than I could imagine. Yes, yes. But anyway, as for the music and how it came back into my life, it very quickly started entering me not long after I began a relationship with Christ. And literally it has grown exponentially ever since.

[John Burke]

What do you mean?

[Brad Burrows]

What I mean is music is essential in my life. Very much so. And to be able to glorify God and praise him through music is far, far beyond. Well, it's, it's. It's a far greater joy in doing it that I receive from giving it and receiving it back than I could ever have imagined. And oh yes, and I've had. I have to believe. So long as I have voice and. Or fingers and. Or breath, I will. I will be doing music until my last day or until. Until God calls me home. Literally. Yeah. And I do believe it as hope. I am just. I know that this. Where I am now, though I. Though it's become comfortable for me. It's not my home, not ultimately. And I know that clearly I. I feel as if I'm a wayfarer here, a stranger here, and that I'm not meant to spend eternity here necessarily.

[John Burke]

So, Brad, you told me something interesting that you got to know another near death experiencer who was also blind from birth. Her name is Vicki and I write about her. I'm just curious, what kind of things, as you and Vicki got to know each other, what kind of things did you share in common about your near death experience?

[Brad Burrows]

I think the. There was really one thing ultimately that we had in common. There were. I mean, one could go into more detail. But the one thing that got us, that really captured our attention was the awe, the tremendous sense of awe that we both had in trying to describe the indescribable, trying to measure the immeasurable, trying to imagine the unimaginable.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Brad Burrows]

Literally that struck us as being as really we're drawing us together, drawing us close immediately. We didn't have to work at it. It was. We knew it, it was there. And we both could literally say I love you. And mean it, Absolutely mean it. Because we knew where we were coming from. And I remember her.

[John Burke]

I remember Vicki saying that even like describing the light of heaven in the same way. She said it's a very emotional thing for me to even think about now

[Brad Burrows]

that it was John I could do to keep from crying even now. I mean, I'm serious. It literally takes my emotions and arrests them immediately. I just. Yes, that is so true. And you're right about that. Yep. But Vicki and I had a great deal to share. But in the crux of it was yes, we had powerful experiences. Yes, our lives will never be the same. They have been changed from here on. And love will never be the same for us. We. We both knew that immediately and, and we were able to share it together. And we had an immediate camaraderie, an immediate understanding about that we, we didn't have to even search for. There were sometimes we had no words for it. Yeah, but, but yes, she, she knew what I. When she would hear me and I would describe my experience, I could hear her going, huh, huh. Yes, yes. And I did virtually the same thing when she would describe hers. And yes, that's fantastic. And sometimes. And there are times when I know my flesh, my body cannot even hope to get close to understanding taking in what we experienced. It was far greater than either of us could understand. And yet it happened. Yet it happened. And.

[John Burke]

Yeah, well, and it's just so amazing, you know, how. How many people blind from birth, having these near death experiences are saying the same things. And you know, just as you found they're. They're pointing to the reality of not only the beauty of heaven and the life to come, but the, the amazing love and grace of God, you know, that, that one day is going to

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

make it all right.

[John Burke]

Right.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

It's all.

[John Burke]

We're all going to be healthy and alive and the way. The way we deep inside know it was intended to be.

[Brad Burrows]

Absolutely. Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Yep. Yeah. And. Go ahead.

[John Burke]

No, go ahead.

[Brad Burrows]

I was going to say I, I think if, if I have a takeaway from just describing our experience. Well, Vicki's in my experience, but my experience, particularly if I had to take away from that, I would give to anyone listening or anyone seeing the experience of. You're hearing it now. It's that it is not just a selective thing for, for just certain folks. In fact, I think of a scripture that says God does not desire for anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance. He is, he has a absolutely open door of invitation for every one of us. And we don't have to live in fear. We don't have to live in dread. We can live in ultimate love if we. But say yes to Christ. Yeah. It's that simple.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

You know, I think it's a powerful thing.

[John Burke]

Like even though at age 8 you

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

had this experience, you know, a lot

[John Burke]

of people think, well, if I could just have an experience like that, everything would be good.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

But that's not true. Life is hard.

[Brad Burrows]

Right.

[John Burke]

And so you come back and you're a teenager, you're going through, you know,

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

what it's like to live without sight

[John Burke]

in a sighted world. And I'm sure it was incredibly difficult. And so we all fight battles and you know, just because you had the near death experience didn't mean you didn't become despondent and.

[Brad Burrows]

Exactly.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[John Burke]

And I think it'd be really great to go into that, that aspect a

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

little deeper because that is what. You know, even though you had this

[John Burke]

experience, you still, you still had a moment of giving your life to Christ. And that was an important decision. It wasn't like just because you had had a near death experience. It was all great.

[Brad Burrows]

Well, that's true. And indeed, I mean, it would be very easy for me to say that, well, now I had this near death experience and now life is just absolutely a bowl of cherries. Well, cherries have pits. Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, Irma Bombach actually brought out many years ago and one of, one of her famous books as a matter of fact, at that time. And so, yes, life, life does have its wonderful moments and its hard moments. And I think of. Well, there's a song that was put out years ago called Life is Hard But God is Good. And yes, indeed, I mean we, we, we choose the kind of life that we will actually live. And many of our choices. Well, I'm just into hard times. And sometimes even when we're living right, we still have hard times. And yet, and yet. I wouldn't have it any other way. I, I mean, God has been blessing over and over, even in the midst of those hard struggles. Yeah.

[John Burke]

Well, Brad, thank you so much for taking the time and, and, and sharing your heart and sharing your story with us.

[Brad Burrows]

John. It's a pleasure. Absolutely.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

That's so inspiring, isn't it? I mean, Brad had struggles that most of us will obviously never face. And yet he says he feels blessed by God, that God is good even when life is not. And I want to talk more about that, but first, I mean, this is incredibly compelling evidence of heaven's reality. The blind can see. And you know, most people don't realize this, but Jesus was actually a man with an address in, in history, there are around 60 Jewish prophecies that foretold of this Jewish Messiah who would come as the Savior for all nations, for the whole world. And all these prophecies were written down between about 1500 to 400 years before Jesus was born. I mean, God foretold who, what, when, where, why God would claim to come in the form of a, of a human, a form we could relate to. And he talked about what he would do for all nations. And he put this in advance so that we would know it's not just myth. Now, I'm not going to go into all that today in episode four of this podcast called Different Religions See the Same God. I'll link to it below. But then there I show you how there is historical proof that these things were written down before and, and history actually has fulfilled it. So he has a very clear address in history for when God would do these things. And yet even people back in Jesus day, though they knew these things and they saw Jesus, when times got difficult, they still questioned and struggled and doubted. You know, and that's true of all of us, right? When God doesn't do things the way we're expecting, we struggle. You know, John the Baptist was actually Jesus cousin. He was the one who baptized Jesus. He was a prophet himself. And he said when he baptized Jesus, he said, this is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. And when Jesus was baptized, he hears a voice from heaven saying, this is my beloved son. And yet John gets thrown in prison by King Herod. This is real history. And he was probably facing the death penalty, which is actually what happened. And it says this. When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of Jesus, he sent his disciples to ask him, are you the one, the Messiah who is to come? Or should we expect someone else? And listen to what Jesus said? Jesus replied, go back and report to John what you hear and see. The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed. The deaf hear, the dead are raised, the good news is proclaimed to the poor, and blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me. The blind see, death is overcome. See, that would be evidence back in Jesus day that this was God doing what he foretold he would do. That God would enter our world in a form we could relate to because he loves us. But here's the crazy thing. This is what millions of NDE testimonies are pointing to today. And I wrote in my two books, Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven, about five people blind from birth, who say the same things as These people who are having near death experiences. And it all aligns with the testimony of the scriptures. Just like Vicki, who Brad met and was talking about. They compared experiences. Vicki was also blind from birth. She describes when she was in a car accident, rising up and seeing her body. She saw her wedding ring and knew that it was her and that she was dead. She saw the medical staff and could describe what they were doing. And then she too rose up through the floors of the hospital and out and then into a dark tunnel. Now, interestingly, did you notice a couple of things. One, Brad described perspective. He said his spirit rose up through the floors of the building out above. He sees trolley cars on the street, which he didn't know there were trolley cars on the street. He sees car lights moving because it's night. And then interestingly, he said the lights of the cars got smaller and smaller as he kept going higher and higher. That's a visual experience. That's called perspective. He had never had that before, yet he describes it perfectly. Now. You know, it's fascinating because skeptics say, oh, these experiences are in the brain. They're every, every alternative explanation other than the reality that the soul lives after death says it's brain based. But if it's brain based, how do blind people have visual memories? It makes no sense. Nobody with an alternate explanation has been able to describe how blind people could have visual memories if it's all just in the brain. But it's not. It's real. And notice both Brad and Vicki, they talk about going into this dark tunnel and they, and they're, they're adjusting to this visual perception because again, neither of them, many of them have, have dreams, even in, in visions of, you know, like three dimensions or anything like that. They just touch and, and smell and hear even in their dreams. And so he describes it as there was color and then there's no color. And he said, I guess that's what you call darkness. Fascinating. And then they both describe heaven. Now Vicki comes out of this tunnel into this garden like place with flowers and trees and, and birds. But she said it of light, just like Brad described. Now, Brad was in, I guess a different place. He sees tall trees, taller than what he imagined had been on earth. And interestingly, other near death experiencers say the same thing. He saw palm trees, but he said he was in this mountain meadow valley going up to this great wall with a gate in it. Vicki, on the other hand, is in this garden and she sees all these deceased friends and relatives. She sees Debbie and Diane, who she grew up with in a home for blind kids. And she said they, they looked completely whole and healthy. Their, their blindness was gone, their infirmities were gone. And, and then Vicki sees Jesus and describes how he hugged her and, and how it was a deeper hug than anything on earth. She felt his beard against her face and she noticed that light was coming out of him and out of his beard even. And she said this light was indescribable because it didn't feel like the sun, it felt like love. Now that's exactly what Brad described interestingly. Evidently Vicki also has a life review and in this life review basically sees her life and re experiences it. But she sees Debbie and Diane growing up with them in this home for blind kids. And she sees what Debbie and Diane look like and how they walked as they grew up together. But when they come back to earth from this near death experience, they're still blind. So Vicki was still blind, Brad's still blind. And yet what Vicki described accurately checked out with the house mother of what Debbie and Diane look like and how they walked and acted. And so again we're talking about the blind see. And it's evidence that not only is heaven real, but Jesus came to give us all entrance into this amazing place. And one of the biggest evidential factors for me is the way blind people describe the light of heaven. Now Brad and Vicki and others say that this light was love and life all together and that it came out of everything. Vicki said it came out of the flowers, out of the trees, out of the, out of the birds, out of everything. But here's the thing, you know, you heard Brad say the same thing. There was no single source of the light like a sun. It was coming out of everything. But on earth, light shines on things and light is warm. It's not love. So where would a blind person have ever heard light described like that? And yet blind people consistently talk about the light of heaven. Just like sighted near death experiencers. And people who have never read the Bible, many of them don't know that they are describing what the Bible says is true of heaven. You know, in 680 BC the Jewish prophet Isaiah wrote this. The sun will no more be your light by day, nor will the brightness of the moon shine on you. For the Lord will be your everlasting light. He's talking about in, in heaven, God will be the everlasting light. And then John, who was one of Jesus disciples, you know, writing in about 100 A.D. so about 700, almost 800 years later, claims he was taken to heaven in the spirit by Jesus. He sees the holy city, which by the way, in another interview I did with Brad, he describes the city and the wall and he describes what John writes in Revelation 21.

[John Burke]

But even you, what you heard today,

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

you know, John describes it as a walled city, 1400 miles in, in length, square in shape, with these 12 gates, these archway openings through the wall and the walls 200ft high and 214ft thick. That's what it says in Revelation 21. And remember, Brad said I, I couldn't see to the top of it looking up, and I couldn't see how far it went because it just seemed to go on and on and on. But he too goes through one of these gates that John describes. He's 12 gates. And that's where Brad encountered the very tall angel, which is what other near death experiencers describe, often of angels who told him that he couldn't go come in, yet he had to go back. Look at what John wrote though as well. In Revelation 21, he said, no need of sun or moon, for the glory of God illuminates the city. And the Lamb, referring to Jesus is its light. The nations will walk in its light. And this is exactly what blind near death experiencers are reporting, that this light is love and life. And it's coming out of the trees and the grass and the birds. And of course, John also tells us in First John 4, God is love. And Jesus said this in John 8, he said, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life, light that is love and life. It's the glory of God. You know, that's, that's what John said. God's glory is this love and life and life, light that flows through everything in God's kingdom. And it's what Brad described, it's what filled him up and made him feel like this is home, this is where he belonged. He'd never felt so loved, never felt so good. That's what people consistently say. And even the people that they, they see, that blind people see, say this light and love is coming out of them. Remember Brad said, I noticed this light was, was coming out of my arm. It was coming out of me. And interestingly, Vicki said that this welcoming committee of people coming toward her, this light was also coming out of them. And it was like that was expressing love to them. Interestingly, Dr. Mary Neal, Spine surgeon I interviewed, you probably heard her in some of my earlier podcasts, said her welcoming Committee, she said, was exploding with love. This light that was love that was coming out of them toward her.

[Brad Burrows]

Now.

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

This is so amazing if you think about it, because this is going to be a new experience of relationship, of sharing something. You know, even now, when we share love with one another, we don't realize that we're actually sharing a little bitty bit of God's borrowed love. But that's the truth. God is love. So there is no love apart from Him. And so what we share is a little tiny bit of his love. But in heaven, we get to share the light, love and life, like the source of life. And we get to share it with each other, express it to each other. And so blind people are confirming this, and it comes out of people. So, interestingly, Daniel, the Jewish prophet who wrote about 450 to 500 BC, says an angel told him this in Daniel chapter 12. The angel says, many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up. This is what's going to happen in the end. Some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting disgrace. But those who are wise will shine as bright as the sky. Those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever. There are, you know, 400, 500 years before Jesus comes. The angel tells Daniel, that's the way it is in heaven. Then Jesus comes and says the same thing. Matthew 13. He says, Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father's kingdom. Anyone who has ears should listen to and understand. So how do you get multiple blind people to. To say the same thing about this light of heaven that agrees with what? Medical doctors like Dr. Mary Neal or airline pilots like Dale Black pastors like Don Piper? And they all agree, yet they didn't know each other. Some of them didn't even know the Bible said any of this. And yet they are all testifying to the same thing because it's true and it's real. And just like Jesus said, you know, the blind see people come to life when we thought they were dead. And he's giving us the same evidence today. And you know what it's telling us? What it's reminding us is that not only is heaven real, but Jesus is the savior of the whole world. He did it for all nations. And as Brad said, all you have to do is say, yes, that's it. See, God created every one of us. You, me, all of us. Doesn't matter what our background, culture, religious background, what we've done, what we haven't done, all our sins. It could be the worst thing in the world. And still God created you for relationship. And he loves you more than you could ever even love your own child. And Jesus died to prove that to you. And he died for your wrongs and for mine. He did it to pay for all our wrongs, all our sins, so that God could still be just in forgiving and basically pardoning all the wrongs we've done if we just say yes to Him. It's amazing. And the Bible says it's a gift, that heaven is a gift, that relationship with God is a gift. And the reason is, is because God wants our love. That's what he created us for. So all you have to say is, yes, I want your love and forgiveness, God, yes, I want what Jesus did to count for me. And that's all God needs to adopt you into his family forever. But he won't force you. He won't force you. He waits for your yes. Because love, if it's going to be real love, it can't be forced. It has to be out of a willing yes. So if you never have, just tell him yes right now. That's all he needs. He knows your heart already. And you know, the other thing Brad talked about is, you know, life is hard. And saying yes to Christ, it means relationship with God, but it doesn't mean life will be easy. You know, Brad was eight when he had this incredible spiritual experience, right? But then he comes back and life is hard, whether you've had an incredible spiritual experience or not. He gets slammed by life. He got attacked, he became depressed and even suicidal. But he said when he finally said yes to Christ, what that did for him and what it does for all of us is it enters us into relationship with God. So it doesn't remove us from all the trials and difficulties of life. But we don't go through them alone. God takes us through them and he does something in us, as he does as we trust God and as we love God, as we learn to experience more of God's love, not only in us, but through us to others. Just like Brad was saying, you know, even when life is hard, you realize God is good even when life isn't. And that he showers us with so many spiritual blessings, so many other things that you never even maybe knew were possible. And you know, what the Bible promises is when we say yes to him, not only do we become his adopted children, but it says this in Romans 8, since we are his children, we are his heirs, you're going to inherit everything God has and in fact, together with Christ, we are heirs of God's glory. Now you have a little bit better picture of what that is. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering now on earth. Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will reveal to us later. See this life can't compare to what God has in store for you ahead. And so trust God and and seek God even through the hardships of life. Hold on to God because He will reward you and what's coming. Make up for it all Well, I hope this podcast has inspired you. I know listening to Brad every time inspires me. If it has inspired you, share it with your friends and with family. Subscribe and click the bell if you want to be notified when I do these. Probably about every two weeks. Hopefully I'm going to get a little more consistent now. I've been writing a book for the last year and a half, finally getting close to finish. It's not going to come out until November, but it'll help me be a little more consistent. But also, if you want to listen to my audiobooks, Imagine Heaven or Imagine the God of Heaven to see, you know, hundreds of these near death experiences and how they align with scripture to show us the exhilarating future to come and also the heart and character of God and how crazy in love he is with you, you can go listen to them. They're out on Amazon. I'll put a description and a link to the audiobooks. If you're on YouTube, I'll put it down below.

[John Burke]

You can always just search John Burke

[Narrator/Podcast Host]

Books on Amazon as well. Well, until next time, be blessed.