Devout Muslim Died - and Saw Something He Couldn't Explain

Summary

Podcast Summary: Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke

Episode Title: Devout Muslim Died – and Saw Something He Couldn't Explain
Date: June 18, 2026
Host: John Burke
Guest: Cedric (formerly Sudhi Kanana)

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Episode Overview

This episode features the extraordinary journey of Cedric (formerly known as Sudhi Kanana), a Rwandan Muslim imam whose life was transformed following a near-death experience (NDE). Host John Burke and Cedric unpack Cedric’s traumatic upbringing, his devout Muslim background, his time as a street kid and imam, struggles with addiction and madness, and ultimately, a profound spiritual encounter during clinical death that challenged everything he once believed. The conversation explores key differences between Islam and Christianity and reflects on God's workings among Muslims.

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Key Discussion Points and Timeline

1. Cedric’s Background and Early Life

Timestamp: 01:00 – 10:00

• Cedric (Sudhi Kanana), born to a Muslim imam father (Hutu) and a mother who converted from Christianity (Tutsi).
• Grew up during the Rwandan genocide, experiencing family separation, abandonment by his father, and deep poverty.
• Turned to street life, drugs, and crime for survival, becoming a drug dealer and user from a young age.
• “So now, you know, of course, I may attribute this to so many things, but those three elements, I feel they read me to become mad. Drugs, depression from family rejection, and the power of witchcraft." (Cedric, 28:01)

2. Rise as Imam and Islamic Apologist

Timestamp: 12:35 – 17:00

• Joined Rastafarianism before deepening Islamic studies; became a well-known Islamic street debater “to always be shame pastors” and defend Islam publicly.

• “My area of specialization was those Islamic debates…that was my speciality. I was very much famous in that in this country.” (Cedric, 14:31)

• As an imam, saw Jesus as a prophet, not divine:
  “Calling him God, calling him the Son of God and so on, that was blasphemy.” (Cedric, 16:09)

3. Addiction, Mental Health Crisis, and Attempted Spiritual Rescue

Timestamp: 23:42 – 41:05

• Significant drug use (cocaine) led to a psychotic break:
  “I felt like something like elastic was pouring into my head…then I saw everybody was mad.” (Cedric, 29:23)

• Hospitalized in a psychiatric facility for nine months and endured failed interventions:

  • Islamic exorcism (Quran recitations)
  • Traditional African witchcraft rituals
  • Never found relief

Healing through Christian Prayer

• Mother's Christian friend suggested prayer; Anglican church members fasted and prayed for Cedric for seven days.
• “On the seventh day, like something went out of my head. I just realized that I was in church in front of people. I started asking, ‘Where am I?’” (Cedric, 39:26)
• Acknowledges Jesus as possessing “more power than any other one, than Islam, than witchcraft, than whatever.” (Cedric, 40:10)
• Struggled with fear over Islamic law (shirk—blasphemy against God—punishable by death) due to newfound belief in Jesus.

4. The Near-Death Experience

Timestamp: 46:24 – 74:19

• Diagnosed at 20 with stage 4 blood cancer, given two weeks to live.
• Died and was clinically dead for 12 hours:
  “I went at 8 in the evening, then at 8 in the morning, that is when I came back.” (Cedric, 57:47)

Experience After Death

• Found himself in a “dirty room, like a butcher house, with blood everywhere.” Attacked by terrifying demonic creatures wielding weapons.
• “They started jumping on me, cutting me. It was a terrible experience.” (Cedric, 56:41)
• In Rwanda, his body was prepped for burial amidst family/friends.

The Appearance of Jesus

• “Another person entered…a white garment started also appearing…What was amazing was this very big holes in his hands.” (Cedric, 58:48)
• Jesus appears, bearing wounds, wearing a crown of thorns, with a radiant smile.
• Jesus says:
  “I died for men. You are among those I died for. Never deny it again and tell this to the whole world.” (Cedric quoting Jesus, 62:33)
• The demonic beings disappear, replaced by calm and peace.
• Cedric is returned to his body—awakens as his own burial is about to take place, shocking everyone present.

Vision After Resurrection

• Upon reviving, Cedric sees Jesus pointing at him among the mourners, reminding him to testify about his experience.
• “I have to witness…He is the one who has brought me back here. There he is.” (Cedric, 70:58)

5. Aftermath: Conversion and Consequences

Timestamp: 74:19 – end

• Publicly converts, leading to national attention (“Osama has got saved!”).

• Faces multiple assassination attempts and family rejection but persists in evangelism.

  • Notable Quote:
    “Yes, that was the most dangerous time because I was poisoned more than three times. The Lord saving me. I was attacked more than six times, the Lord rescuing me miraculously.” (Cedric, 75:40)

• Becomes an Anglican evangelist, using notoriety for outreach.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On his NDE and Jesus’s message:

  • “I died for men. You are among those I died for. Never deny it again and tell this to the whole world.”
    (Jesus to Cedric, 62:33)

• Describing the transformation:

  • “After seeing his appearance, I felt some sense of calmness in the room and I felt as if somewhere in a very peaceful place. Imagine that I didn't again imagine about those men that were cutting.”
    (Cedric, 64:27)

• On fearlessness after returning:

  • “I faced so many dangerous attacks and the Lord, you know, rescued me, really. I don't think which one can really frighten me for now because I faced the most dangerous terrorism.” (Cedric, 78:51)

• To all listeners:

  • “Jesus is real. People should know that. Jesus is real. Hell is real and heaven is real.” (Cedric, 79:59)

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John's Reflections and Contrast Between Islam & Christianity

Timestamp: 79:55 – end

• John summarizes the core differences between the two faiths, particularly around the Person and work of Jesus.
• Explains the five pillars of Islam and the Islamic view of Jesus as a prophet, not divine, nor crucified.
• Presents biblical and historical evidence for Jesus’s crucifixion, highlighting the theological significance of atonement and resurrection.
• Discusses the unique Christian claim: relationship with a loving, personal God versus religious duty.
• Acknowledges Cedric’s story as evidence of Christ actively revealing Himself across cultural and religious boundaries.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a raw, firsthand account of the complex intersection of trauma, faith, culture, and the supernatural. Cedric’s journey from imam to evangelist, catalyzed by an otherworldly encounter with Jesus, invites listeners to consider the reality of spiritual experiences, the power of prayer, and the core distinctions between religious worldviews. Cedric’s courage, faith, and consistent message—“Jesus is real”—invite reflection for people from all backgrounds.

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Transcript

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

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[John Burke]

Well, Sudhi Kanana, now known as Cedric, was a Muslim imam in Rwanda. His father was a sheik and an imam as well. His mom was a priestess of the African deity Bako. And Suddit grew up in the Rwandan genocide, which tore his family apart. And so from about nine years old, he had to live mostly as a street kid. He grew up and became actually a famous Rastafarian musician there in Rwanda, and then later a Muslim imam and an ardent defender of the faith. Then Sidi got blood cancer and died. And he has medical evidence of his death, and yet he came back with a fascinating, amazing near death experience that changed everything for him. You're going to learn a lot today about Muslim beliefs and practices. And at the end, I'm going to talk through some of the similarities and the differences between Islam and Christianity, really the core key difference, and even about God's heart and his work among Muslims today. So stick with me till the end. Well, I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times best selling book Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven. And this is the Imagine Heaven podcast. Well, hey, Cedric, great to, to have you interviewing with us today. What an amazing story. And you're, you're in Rwanda right now?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, I'm in Rwanda. You got it.

[John Burke]

So what an amazing story. You, you were a Muslim imam who literally died. They were getting your body ready to be buried, and yet you came back. Take us back and tell us how all that happened.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah. Thank you very much for this opportunity to testify about what God has done into my life. Of course, being a native of Rwanda. Some people will think about genocide. So, and this, of course, brings into the mind of some people things of Tutsi and Hutu. So I want to connect all those events because they are interconnected. They connect those Islamic, you know, events and the genocide events and how they affected my, you know, my life journey, which, of course, resulted into, you know, this intervention of Jesus. So born in an Islamic background, of course, I was a devoted Muslim. So, of course, with this kind of desire to be some great, you know, great imam, some great sheikh. This was, of course, my belief.

[John Burke]

And your father was a. An imam, right, or a sheikh?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, yes. He. He was. He was. Of course, even he was among the first converts. So now my father being, of course, in Islam, and now my mother, you know, marrying him from a Christian background, of course, this brings into mind how, you know, the next will be because my mother became a Muslim by ordinary marriage. So now my growth, of course, was a mix of feeling because my father was a Hutu, mother being Tutsi, and

[John Burke]

it wasn't just Muslim Christian background, but one was a Hutu, one was a Tutsi. And these are the. These are the ones who ended up in a. In a genocidal war, right?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah, yeah. And actually, these. All those backgrounds contributed to my joining drugs. So because, you know, after genocide, of course, they separated because they had these tribal conflicts. So my father married another. Another, you know, hut wife because she never wanted any. Any other to see woman. So now, you know, of course, he abandoned us. After abandoning us, you know, I started becoming responsible, of course, caring for my siblings.

[John Burke]

Yes.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

When I was.

[John Burke]

So you're saying in the. When the genocide happened, your. Your father ended up abandoning your family because. Because your mother was. Was Tootsie, was it?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Tootsie? Yes. In fact, the reason was that the. The brothers. Her brothers of my uncles, after getting out from the war, you know, they were fighting together with rpf, the party that was liberating the country. So when they came, of course, their mind was that maybe all of those Hutus who were left might have done genocide. And, of course, the problem was still to understand who is innocent, who is not. So, of course, my father was arrested so that they can know, did you also do genocide? And so on. So now, after being arrested, of course, because he had used the Samarota energy to save each one of us during the genocide, so, you know, he became disappointed, and he said, really, I cannot keep being friends of Tutsis because you do good to them. And then they imprison, oh, so, but what was good in that is that my mother said, you know, my husband tried all his best to save all of us so he cannot be imprisoned like any other criminal. So I said, no, if he gets a problem, I will also make suicide. So they released him. But when they released him, he got out angry against us. He never wanted to see us again because he said, no, this is what Tutsi has paid me. So he took everything from us. So he went. Our grandmother, of course, had prepared for him another woman. So he went and he got another woman of the same tribe. So of course we started the suffering. So that is when I became hopeless. Then I joined the street life. So I started, you know, taking drugs. Of course this includes stealing, this heavy stealing. At some point I started even selling them because I was still young and our government was trying to fight against the drugs. So now because they were arresting those whom they know, the only tool to keep selling was using kids.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So.

[John Burke]

Well, and I know, I know from, you know, reading your book, which I think is now called I Once Was Dead, I, I know you were, you were plunged, you guys were plunged into poverty, right? When your dad, your dad was hurt feeling like you, he had tried to save you. And then he got turned on and arrested. So then he was hurt and, and, and that plunged you in, into a lot of poverty, which then, and you felt abandoned. So into drugs and healing even. Yeah, it's just a, Yeah, a lot of evil, a lot of mess, huh?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. Yeah. So now you can imagine all the remaining life became only hopelessness, you know, drug addicts and of course using them and selling them around all these other young people. I remember I joined of course the primary school while I was a drug dealer. Secondary, the same.

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[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

And of course, by that time, in order, you know, to keep feeding or maybe recovering myself, everything that was coming over, I wanted to join, I joined Rastafarianism. So of course with all those wrong dreads, dreadlocks, those rocks, you can imagine. So of course I reached a point where in the secondary school, they called me Osama, Osama bin Laden. So that was, you know, the hitting story on the scene.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So now, you know, with, with all that hopelessness. But I kept my dream of, you know, becoming a Muslim scholar. So of course I kept on reciting, memorizing. But also I joined a madrasa. After the madrasa, I also went into another Islamic school that was actually growing up here in Kigare. So now, of course, in the long run, I became a younger imam because I had finished the required minimum education. So. And of course I.

[John Burke]

So you were an imam? A leader. A leader. And you, you even debated and you know, did, did open street debate of defending Islam. Right.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

My, my Islamic education or my area of specialization was. So it's, you know, those Islamic debates. So I was like a street debater, you know, those concerts and so on, that was my speciality. So. And I was very much famous in that in this country. So.

[John Burke]

So in Rwanda you were, you were known for debating and defending Islam?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, I always, I was an Islamic apologetic.

[John Burke]

So Islamic apologetics. And who would, who would you debate?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Christians, most especially. I targeted those in the leadership position because I wanted to always be shame pastors. So most debates I always invited mostly those who are in those strategic, you know, key leadership position because I wanted to show the rest that, you know, those who are leading, you don't know anything, they are lying, they know nothing. So, and really I became the sermon.

[John Burke]

And so, so at that point that you, you, you ended up getting sick. But at that point, what was your belief about Jesus?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I believed he was a prophet just. And the, I know of Course like any other Muslim muscular. They say of course all prophets did the miracles. So there is nothing special. He's a prophet like another one and you know, calling him God, calling him the Son of God and so on, that was blasphemy. So it was blasphemous.

[John Burke]

Blasphemous. Yeah. A lot of, A lot of people don't realize that the Quran. Jesus is a prophet in the Quran like Abraham or Moses or David. Right.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

And Jesus actually for your surprise, if you talk to a Muslim and they say, hey, you don't believe in Jesus, they will tell you, you know, we believe in Jesus. We even believe in him more than you do because Jesus was circumcised. You don't.

[John Burke]

Jesus was what?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Circumcised.

[John Burke]

And what, what's the significance of that?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Now there are about five, you know, things that they say Muslims, they do like Jesus did, yet the Christian does it.

[John Burke]

Right.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

The first thing is how Jesus prayed. So you know, he bowed down and he, his head of course, like it was into this Hebrew culture, the way of praying. So of course secondary. He always, when of course entering the way he dressed, you know, he dressed like covering. So but you know, they say Christians, you don't care about that. Then another thing. So he was circumcised. So you, you don't. It is not your real norm. And I mean a lot of it.

[John Burke]

That's why I was confused because a lot of Christians do get circumcised.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah. Because they say anyone trying to some common size the Israel.

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[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Because for Islam it is, it is really like, like, you know, like an order. How. Like a law. Right. Because this part of the Sunnah, right.

[John Burke]

Like it's, it's mandatory.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, it's mandatory. So now for Christians it is not mandatory. You can do it because maybe for health reasons and so on and so,

[John Burke]

so you would argue in the streets and the mosque, in different places of, of we actually follow Jesus more than you Christians, because look at how he lived. But, but he was not the son of God. Right. And he was not, he did not die on the cross. The Quran says they only thought he did.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. So that is what the Quran said. They said. They, it says that actually they lie. They deceived themselves that he rose, but he didn't.

[John Burke]

Right.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So now, you know, there are a lot of areas that was confused, you know, in my mind when I thought about Jesus by that time. So, you know, it was very heavy for me to imagine when Jesus died and he was a God. So where Had God gone. Right.

[John Burke]

Who was running the universe if they killed God?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

That was one of the heaviest questions that Christian is a struggle with in my time.

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Right.

[John Burke]

Well, and, and, and, and in imagine God, I write, I'm writing about that. That, that a way to understand it is imagine if we are actually just living on a flat tabletop with only two dimensions. A three dimensional being could intersect our world. So say I, you know, I'm a three dimensional being. I intersect this flat two dimensional world and all I can. All they can see of me is a round slice of my finger. Right?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And, and if I'm. And, and. But they can't understand that that's not all of me.

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[John Burke]

I am actually connected to a third dimension that they can't even understand. So I'm not only right here, I'm also watching from above, but they don't even have an above.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

Other, other dimensionalities start to make sense of the, of the mystery of God.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, that's a good reality dimension.

[John Burke]

Hey, it's your ceiling vent. So I'm dripping. Could be the rain, could be the upstairs bathroom.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yikes.

[John Burke]

You could hire the guy your neighbor recommended, but I'm pretty sure that's just his cousin. Do we know if he's licensed or does he just own a ladder?

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[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

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[John Burke]

Well, so tell us then what, what happened that led up to your near death experience?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

You know, because of using a lot of drugs, you know, I reached a point of even using cocaine, so. And this cocaine, of course I started injecting it in my veins, so of course it was terrible. So yeah, I reached a point and I got mad. So I got what became mad? Mad, mad, mad like in a mad

[John Burke]

person like Nebuchadnezzar not thinking straight.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah.

[John Burke]

And what, what was happening.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Okay,

[John Burke]

but at this, at this point you're no longer doing drugs. You're in a moment.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, this became. No, I, even though I, I became an imam, I was still using drugs at some point, sometimes even I started even selling to them whom I was, you know, reading in, in mosque.

[John Burke]

So that's not okay in Islam.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Right, I know, but you know, the Bible clearly says that whoever is a slave to sin, of course, whoever sins becomes a slave to sin.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So of course, you know, understanding that those things were not allowed in Islam does not remove the fact that I was a slave to sin. Right. So I was ready to do anything everywhere.

[John Burke]

Right.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So, you know, at that point, of course I needed some higher power that could really take this away because I knew this was dangerous to me. I tried reciting the Quran, you know, you know, using all the prayers, you know, joining all those other imams that would, you know, pray for me, but nothing happened.

[John Burke]

And you knew that you were having some kind of psychological break.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah, of course. You know, if you talk with many drug addicts, they will tell you that they reach a point. And they said that they feel that they are fed up real. They said, yeah, they feel, they want to stop, but there is no, no courage, no, no, no. This power to help them get out of that. Right. So of course, so you start feeling it in the brain. You really sense.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So of course, for me it was a kind of, you know, a combination of two things of those drugs, of course, that kind of depression, you know, a younger child who was rejected by the family and he never had any kind of love. And of course, now this also brings a fact that my family were used to witchcraft things because my mother was a witch doctor.

[John Burke]

Your mother was a, was a, was a African witch doctor?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

So, and that was that her, her background?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. Her father also was, was, was a witch doctor. So it was like a family inheritance.

[John Burke]

Right. And that's, and that's a, that's a pretty, that's a pretty normal thing that gets kind of mixed in of. Of It's. It's like acknowledging there's a spiritual world, but it's trying to use powers to manipulate the spiritual world, right?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, yes, that's it. That's it. So, you know, of course, I may attribute this to so many things, but those three elements, I feel they read me to become mad. That. That.

[John Burke]

That what. What things had led you to become mad or crazy?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Drugs, you know, this kind of depression of. Because. Because of not having, you know, being abandoned, feeling rejected by your.

[John Burke]

By your father. Yeah. Oh, and the witchcraft.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

And of course, the power of witchcraft.

[John Burke]

Right, Right.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah. Because I was the one to succeed my mother to be the witchcraft, to be that witch.

[John Burke]

So you were. You were supposed to both succeed your father as an imam and your mother as.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

So, yeah. How did, how. How did you come out of that?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So, you know, after facing all those terrible life, of course, you know, I. There was a time when I was a basketball player of my school where I was studying, and, you know, our team had to play with another school team, so we first took some drugs. Of course, that gives us the courage to jump and to jump. So now when we finished taking it, you know, I felt like something like elastic was pouring into my head. It was like, you know, pouring and pouring. So it was too much for me. So. And in the long run, it bursted. When it bursted, you know, I heard some very heavy noise. So heavy and funny, they were too much that they were, you know, running me insane. So then, you know, they started, you know, reducing, reducing, reducing after they had issue, reduced. When I saw people that were surrounding me, I started seeing them mad. So I saw everybody was mad.

[John Burke]

You started seeing others as crazy or mad?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah. Yes.

[John Burke]

And it was. So it was that. It was that last time of taking. What, what was it like uppers or something to. And. And it. Something popped, you felt like in your head,

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

you know, I had these two heaven noises, you know, and. And I was not, of course, thinking or imagining because the noise was too much. And, you know, some people knows about something called the tinnitus. So. And for me, it was like a very heavy tinnitus that was, you know, ringing, very noisy, and my head was turning around. You know, I was seeing some heavy dizziness.

[John Burke]

Okay.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So of course it took like about like maybe three minutes and I became normal. But when I became normal, it was as if my brain had gone. I started seeing as if everyone is mad. So of course my heart told me no no, no, no, no. You cannot pray with mad people. So you just need to go away. So of course I disappeared. I left the pitch and that is when I became, you know, a mad person. So I was admitted into mud hospital here. We call it Kara S. So it is a very known, you know, psycho psychosis, psychological hospital, something like that. So now for now, nine months, I was admitted as a mother person.

[John Burke]

So you were, you were in the,

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

the,

[John Burke]

the hospital for a mental break for nine months?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. So now, you know, during that time, medical personnel tried all their best. They really did try all their best. But I was becoming mad and mad I went when I was, you know, serious quiet. So in the long run, I started fighting now. And you know, I was, I was a martial art master. So we, I, I trained in the martial art and I had a black belt.

[John Burke]

Wow. And so, so you're. So it's getting worse. You're a black belt in martial arts and now you're, you're, you're fighting them in the, in the hospital?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, I was fighting them and it became very hard for them, you know, to chain me because that is what they are trying to see if they can chain me and then, you know, try with a sedative. Yes, yeah. So of course. But after nine months, you know, my mental, my mental disorder started, you know, getting a little bit better. So then they sent me back home. Now when I went home, fellow Muslims came. Of course they put the Quran on my head, you know, reciting some Quranic verses, most especially Surat Turkul Seer. That is a surah that they believe it chases out demons.

[John Burke]

So putting the Quran on your head, they thought it was demonic and they were trying to cleanse you with the Quran on your head.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, of course, reciting that is the Surat that they believe that it takes away demons. So. Okay. But, you know, it became worse. I became now mad to another higher level that I started now beating everybody. So it became too much. It is, it was when they are putting it on me, I felt as if, like there are insects, you know, entering my head and my, my, my ears. So it became too much. So,

[John Burke]

so that didn't work.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So especially they were having like the noises of bees. It was as if bees were head cuttings. Yes, yeah, yeah. So of course, you can imagine now madness became too strong.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So I started beating them. But in the long run, of course, the local policemen came and arrested me. They chained me, then they rocked me into a room that of course had no window. Of course. But in the long run. There was a woman who was a friend of my mother. He came and told my mother that, you know, you tried witchcraft, you tried the Islamic and Muhammad, you tried medical personnel, and nothing happened. Why don't you also try Jesus?

[John Burke]

Because your. Your mother had. I remember you wrote about this in your book, that your. Your mother had tried different spells to try to, you know, manipulate whatever spiritually was going on. They had done the thing with the Quran. You'd been in a psych hospital for nine months, and this Christian friend of your. Of your mom's then finally said, hey, you've tried everything. Why don't you try Jesus? And. And she was actually at that point, willing, huh?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, because, you know, she had tried everything. And what she wanted is her son to get better.

[John Burke]

Yeah. Like every mother.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So she was ready to do anything to rescue her son because, you know, our father had rejected us for so long. So I was like the husband to her, the son to her, everything. Because I cared for every need at home. Yeah, of course, you know, they took me to the church. So when I got there, there are a group of people from the Anglican Church who were praying. They were really strong prayer warriors. They had prayed for a lady who had been married for actually many years, and she got better. So, of course that was something relieving to my mother, actually giving her hope that something can happen. So they prayed for me. Seven days fasting.

[John Burke]

So they prayed and fasted. Seven days for you?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Seven days. And on the seventh day, like, you know, maybe, like something went out of my head. I just realized that I was in charge in front of people. So I started asking them, where? Where am I?

[John Burke]

Where or what?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Where am I?

[John Burke]

I didn't understand.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I started asking them where I was because I was sitting across in front of me, like.

[John Burke]

Like you had. You had suddenly come back to yourself?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. Gotcha.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Of course, that is when I realized that Jesus actually has more power than any other one, than Islam, than witchcraft, than whatever. I realized, really. Even if. Even though, you know, I despised him for so many years, he must be a kind of a superpower, kind of a person. So it just. You started, you know, making sense to me.

[John Burke]

So you. You couldn't deny that there was something about Jesus that had healed you, but at the same time, you're still an imam who has countered Jesus as. As. As God for sure. Right?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. And this actually created the heaviest confusion. How am I going, you know, to face, you know, this kind of believing in Jesus while I knew that it is punishable in his love.

[John Burke]

And punishable in what way?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah, because the greatest sin in Islam, it is shirk. Shirk. It is, you know, let me say it is confusing about God, you know, you know, believing in other gods. Or maybe it is, let me say it is blaspheming God. Let me say that. Okay, so now, now believe.

[John Burke]

To believe. To believe that Jesus is. Is a higher power. And, And God or the Son of God is to blaspheme God.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, that is shirk.

[John Burke]

And what is. And what's the punishment?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

The punishment is death.

[John Burke]

And so that's. So you're, you're, you're in tension. You're. You're torn.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah. I knew that, you know, doing such act requires death. And I had started, you know, seeing life that someone can really live someone was that someone can live. This time I started seeing life that, you know, life exists, you know, after being healed from that madness.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Now I decided to be a Christian, but in a mosque.

[John Burke]

So you decided what to. That you believed in Jesus, but you would remain Muslim in the mosque?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

In the mosque.

[John Burke]

So you were saying that you would just keep it hidden, what you really believe. Okay.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, because I was fearing. I knew I have to face death if now I would see myself, you know, holding the Bible and, you know, moving around. It was. It was terrible to me. I wouldn't imagine that. That happening.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So I decided, of course, I would go again, read the prayers. So. But now my apologetic knowledge, of course, my apologetic education is too, because I never wanted again to talk against Jesus.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So now whenever they. They put it, they organized in Muzahara. I created the reasons not to be present. You're.

[John Burke]

You're now living in this tension. You can't deny that Jesus is the greater power that set you free, but you're still an imam, and, and you don't want to argue against Jesus anymore.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So what.

[John Burke]

What does it bring us to that point where you actually encountered Jesus? What happened?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

It's amazing how, you know, I lived that life and they still believed that I'm the one to save them from those, you know, attacks, you know, those doctrinal attacks. So now I reached a point. Of course, it was something like after 10 months. I remember it was after 10 months now when I went. I had again went to school, you know, joined school. So when I was seated in the classroom, you know, something in my stomach started, like, pouring, you know, like if they are cutting every. Every intestine. Oh. So now it was very hard for me to breathe. Breathing was a problem. You know, I started holding my breath to see if it doesn't cut again. It was one of the most painful experiences. So, of course, I fall down. They took me into hospitals and hospitals in the long run. When they took me to our national referral hospital called the King Pfizer Hospital, they diagnosed me with.

[John Burke]

You had blood cancer. That's what you were feeling? And how. How old are you at this point?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I was by that time, 20 years. 20.

[John Burke]

So you're young.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I was still, you know, everything I did in my life, I did it with some great devotion, with the great power, great courage that they are like at. At 16, I had all the Quran in this head because I even at one time passed an exam of, you know, memorizing. Yes. Among the. Those things. So you.

[John Burke]

You had memorized the. The whole Quran?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. Wow. And.

[John Burke]

And so. So they diagnosed you with blood cancer and what happened then?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah, of course, because I had become. I had become paralyzed. My whole body was paralyzed. I wouldn't move. And they were. They were, of course, feeding me through, Through. Through those medical veins. Of course, it was very hard for me whether to believe, whether to move with anything, so I was just laying on the bed. Of course, doctors recommended that I could be transferred in Switzerland so that maybe they can see how to operate me. But the doctor who was from there, of course, admitted that this operation is just hard because the cancer had released the fourth stage.

[John Burke]

Oh, my goodness. Fourth stage cancer of the blood?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And so is that. Is that ultimately what led to your. To your death?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, of course, because then they released me back home at the hospital, they had said, you know, two weeks, you have to die. You cannot go beyond the two weeks. That is.

[John Burke]

They gave you two weeks to live.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[Sponsor Voice (SimplePractice Ad)]

Wow.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So. So I went waiting for the death in two weeks.

[John Burke]

Wow.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So guess what? Two weeks I died as the doctor said. Wow. So, of course, as I was laying down the bed, you know. You know, of course, breathing was a problem.

[Sponsor Voice (Thumbtack Ad)]

Problem.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

It was hard for me. And, you know, when I tried to breathe, the breath went down into the stomach, so. And again, I never again, you know, I tried. I tried, like fighting with the heart, you know, trying if it can be possible to breathe, but it wasn't. The more I thought, you know, the more I felt that my heart was becoming extremely weaker.

[John Burke]

Yeah. And so. So tell us what. What happened when. That moment when you actually died.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah, of course I started, you know, in the beginning, you know, people who were in front of me, I was seeing them, but I wouldn't talk I wouldn't, you know, hear anything, but I was seeing their movements. So. But as I kept battling, you know, immediately I also lost all those images that, you know, I disappeared. You know, like when I was seeing people in front of me, I wouldn't hear what they were saying, but seeing their movement, you know, trying to clean because I was so much sweating. And of course, eventually I felt like that heaviness in the heart immediately pushed me, pushed me. And when it pushed me, immediately, I felt like I'm going in, in another place, you know, like I'm disappearing. I felt like, you know, something was moving me to, to, to somewhere.

[John Burke]

And did you realize that you were leaving your body?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I felt it. I felt that I was living.

[John Burke]

And where did you go? Did you, did you see, did you see your body there?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. So I, I, I found myself into a bigger dirty room as if the, the slaughters, some cows and whatever they are, there are many blood. That room was, was having many blood. And you know, I saw myself lying down in that room. So now.

[John Burke]

Yeah, keep going.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah. So now when I was lying down in that room. So that room had a window, a very big window. And that big window,

[John Burke]

I, I just want people to understand. So you, you have left your body now?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And you realize you're dead.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And you, did you, did you drop into this room or did you just, you were just there in this room?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

No, you know, I felt like after my heart became too weak, I felt like I was, you know, getting out, like going somewhere. So after that, that kind of feeling happened, like in seconds. I immediately found myself lying into a room. This, this of course, was as if the slaughter. Some. It was like a butcher.

[John Burke]

And how did you know? So you're in this room and you said it was like a slaughterhouse. But why did you, what made you think that?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I find myself there and I was seeing some things.

[John Burke]

Okay.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

What you see, I cannot tell you that I was thinking, but I was there.

[John Burke]

And describe what you were seeing.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Of course. In that room that was like some. Four men entered. People may know these movies of, of this demon, these people we see with long, very long teeth, you know, they equal them. Vampires, huh? Yes, with very long teeth, very long, you know, ears. And, you know, like a near was like here, another one here.

[John Burke]

A what?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

You know, the, the, the, this eye, you know. Oh, here. Another one here.

[John Burke]

So like a contorted face.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

They were very funny, very happy to this strange, but also very, very dangerous. So now one had a knife, another one had an old bucket Another one had an. A cyclopunk, you know, a cyclopunk. Do you know it?

[John Burke]

So you're talking about the curved sword?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, yes. This. This kind of, you know, bank that is, you know, like a psych.

[John Burke]

Yeah, yeah, Sith. Yeah, that you, that you would chop

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

here. They use it to cut the grasses to feed the cows, right?

[John Burke]

Yeah, that's it. Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Huh. So now, of course, that one we. With, With, With, With. With a sword was, Was like, this is sort of these older soldiers, you know, this, you know, all the. All the combatants. You, you know, them. So now. And another one had an axe. So now they started jumping on me, jumping on me, jumping on me. And this one with the cyclopunk started cutting me, cutting me. It was a terrible experience.

[John Burke]

Are you still. You feel alive? This is real?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, I was feeling it because I had gone somewhere else. And, you know, for your information, of course, others, they had closed my eyes because they had seen that I have died. And, you know, Muslims buried the same day, and they started arranging my burial, My burial service.

[John Burke]

Oh, so you're saying back in Rwanda, you're. You're in this hellish experience, but in Rwanda your body had died and they began preparing your body for burial.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. Oh, wow. Yes.

[John Burke]

How long. How long was your body dead

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

for? It was. I went at 8 in the evening, then at 8 in the morning. That is when I came back.

[John Burke]

So 12 hours.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, 12 hours.

[John Burke]

Goodness. Okay, so keep going, please.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I need to tell people, those who are listening, it was not a coma.

[John Burke]

No, not a coma. Yeah. Not. Not just a. I mean, some people may say, well, maybe it was the drugs or maybe it was a dream.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

No, no, no, no, no. It wasn't because of the. When I went, they called the doctor. The doctor came and did all, you know, the test. He said, no, he's dead. So it suffered.

[John Burke]

But you were alive. You felt yourself still, but in another place.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

But for me, of course, when they were there doing their thing, for me, I was somewhere.

[John Burke]

Well, keep going. So these.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I was.

[John Burke]

I mean, do you think these are these demonic creatures or these people? What. Do you know what they are?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, they are hard to tell because it was so terrible. It was so terrible. They were very tall, big, but also funny with faces that are not troublesome. And they were, you know, it was a frightening experience. So, of course they started, you know, trying jumping on me, cutting me. So this one with an ax came now on top of, held it up, you know, like going to cut me into Pieces, the same window. Another person entered. I saw the. Like this Sando entering, then keeping on entering. You know, a white garment started also appearing. So now the person stood in front of me. And long ago, I had watched a Jesus film in the film theater. So that image, of course, came in front of me into the image of that person. And you know what was amazing? What was amazing was this very big holes in his hands.

[John Burke]

So you're saying Jesus came in the window, into this room?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And. And you had. You had seen a movie, The. The Jesus movie at one point, growing up?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, it was very long ago. I saw it accidentally, of course, in a movie theater. And it made no sense to me, of course, as a Muslim, I said, those are Christian lying. So now this. This person appeared, this very person appeared into this. This image.

[John Burke]

And you knew it was Jesus?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, because I was seeing the holes, these very big holes in his head.

[John Burke]

And. And what did he look like?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah. How do I describe this? You know? You know, he was smiling. He was smiling, but also he was also wearing this crown of horn.

[John Burke]

Crown of what?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

You know, the crown. They put him.

[John Burke]

The crown of thorns.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Of thorns, yes. So, of course. But what made me recognize it was this very big holes in his heart where they pierced him. Of course, you know, now he told me, I died for men.

[John Burke]

I died for men.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

You are among those I died for. Never deny it again and tell this to the whole world.

[John Burke]

And so he communicates this to you. I died for mankind. You are one who I died for. Never denied again. Tell it to the whole world.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And was. Was his mouth moving or were these thoughts coming to you? Which was.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

No, he was. He was talking. He was talking. His mouth was moving, you know, telling me like, you are. Like I'm talking to you now. That is what happened.

[John Burke]

But. But he actually, he has a smile on his face.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Very nice smile. I remember that every day whenever I face a challenge, I remember that. Greatest man. Wow.

[John Burke]

And so what are you think? What are you feeling? What are you thinking? And what did he. What was he wearing? Did he. Do you have a beard? I mean, did he look like Jesus? What did he look like?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, very white, you know, wrong. White beard.

[John Burke]

A white beard?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, with a very long white dress. Wrong garment, of course, but in his head, he was having this crown of thorn. It was always so now, you know, after talking to me, he disappeared.

[John Burke]

And. And what were you feeling as he was talking to you?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

You know, immediately after seeing his appearance, I felt some sense of calmness in the room and I felt as if. As if somewhere in a very, you know, peaceful place. Imagine that I didn't again imagine about those men that were cutting

[John Burke]

and where did they go?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

To be serious, after that, I only saw their material, but for them, I never saw them again. So you.

[John Burke]

After Jesus came in, it was just Jesus.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

It was just Jesus. So for me, my focus became him. I never again imagined that I was maybe with those terrible men. So it's amazing that, you know, I only saw their material after he disappeared. After, you know, he disappeared, you know, disappearing in that same window.

[John Burke]

Okay, he went out. He went out.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

No, he, like moving into a room like this, disappearing. He didn't go out, but he disappeared, you know, like the Bible described. Like he went to heaven like that, or maybe entering into the room without the opening. So he. He disappeared.

[John Burke]

Okay,

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

so of course, after disappearing, also me, I felt like, as if I'm moving, like you can hold the stone and throw it above. So I saw like I'm moving like in the sky somehow. And I felt, you know, I fall into something.

[John Burke]

So you felt yourself shooting up first?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And then fell into something?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And the way was that your body that you were falling into?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, yes. So of course I started the coughing and coughing and coughing. So people came and so of course, they had already started the barrier preparations and of course it was the time for. For doing what they call ubuswa, you know, cleaning the body.

[John Burke]

Doing what? Cleaning the body for burial. Yes, I. I remember, I think, reading that you saw literally a great. A hole dug for your body. Is that right?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

You were.

[John Burke]

Your body was about to be cleaned and put into the hole, into.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Into that. They had the dag already and they're

[John Burke]

all that, your family and all your friends and everybody is circled around ready to bury you?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, yes. They had to come. They invited everybody. So they were all around there and.

[John Burke]

And suddenly swiddick is back. And what, what did you say?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So they saw me getting out, but when, you know, after getting back into my body, I uncovered myself. I found they had only, you know, put on me the small. The small shit. You know, for Muslims, they bury you the way you came on earth. And that is why, of course, they don't use those expensive coffins and whatever. So now uncovering myself, I say, hey, wow. Oh, what is it happening? So I had not come into my senses then I just moved out and moving out. People started running away, seeing me.

[John Burke]

Everybody started running scared.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. What, what did you say? I had nothing to say because I had not, you know, Discovered what is happening? I had not yet come into my senses.

[John Burke]

Right.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So what actually awakened my mind, it was when I saw some young men whom we used to do the cleaning of bodies together.

[Sponsor Voice (SimplePractice Ad)]

Oh.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

When I saw them on, you know, eyes, I think someone is. Is dead here. So I started imagining who is Hui. Who is. Who has died. Who has died.

[John Burke]

You didn't realize, huh?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So seeing down, you know, I thought they were digging a hole to bury some who is. Who has died. So, you know, now I started seeing all people were there. They were scaring about me, and they were, you know, seeing me. Amazingly, my senses came. I said, oh, oh, oh. You are the one who had died. Wow. So as I became weak, you know, imagining how people are thinking of me as a ghost, as whatever. So I turned. When I turned, trying to enter back into, you know, the house, you know, there were among many people, that very same Jesus who followed me into that place, I saw again standing amid these people.

[John Burke]

You saw Jesus standing now among the people?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

Like a vision of Jesus.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. Now pointing the finger on me.

[John Burke]

Pointing the finger. And what did he mean?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So he. He didn't say anyone, but in me, I immediately remembered what he has just told me that I have to witness. You have to tell people that I have to tell people what, you know, he has done. So I started, you know, shouting, shouting, this is Jesus. He submitted to you. I saw. He's the one who has brought me back here. There he is. So they started, of course, running away. It was a terrible experience. So it was Thursday. Someone has just failed, and he's saying, Jesus is there standing amid these people. He is the one. He is the one who has brought me. It was terrible. So people started running away. But when they are still running away, because we were living, you know, down the hill where there was an Anglican church. It was the same church where they prayed me for.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So. And they started drumming, you know, like an African culture.

[John Burke]

Yeah.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

That time when. So they started drumming. Drumming. Those drums started ringing in my heart, in my head. And, you know, I, you know, I thought. It came in my mind and thought, this is where you belong.

[John Burke]

And so you. You heard the. The church drums. Were they drumming? Was it.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Was it.

[John Burke]

Was it Sunday or was it your. They were drumming for your funeral.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

It was a Sunday.

[John Burke]

Ah, so you rose on Sunday.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, it was on Sunday.

[John Burke]

Wow.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Well, and. And you have.

[John Burke]

And you have. You have proof of these medical records that you were. That you had blood cancer and they'd only given you weeks to live.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And you have people who were there at your burial.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Very many people.

[John Burke]

And as a result, did many. Did many people believe you and start to believe in Jesus?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, and the first one is my mother.

[John Burke]

Your mother.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

He was my first combat. So. Wow.

[Sponsor Voice (e.g., Mistplay or Figs Ad)]

And.

[John Burke]

And as a result of all this, you ended up today, you are an Anglican priest also helping other people follow Jesus now.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, yes, I'm. I'm an evangelist, of course. From an Anglican evangelist to interdenomination evangelist, because of course, I was very much famous before I was known of those and those Rastafarianism. So I was famous. So my conversion rank rang in many people. So on Reddi was saying that, you know, Osama has got saved. So it became a national news.

[John Burke]

Oh, really? Because you were nationally known as Osama.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Osama, yes. Oh, so I was known as Osama, but again, because I was a martial art trainer in the Rasta, because I, I also used to call to write songs. So I was a, a known, A very known star.

[John Burke]

Yeah, so you were, you were, you were a song. You were a Rastafarian songwriting. You had, you had a broad reach. And, And I guess the Lord knew, you know, he. He honored, I guess he honored the prayers of, of those people and even the small little seed of faith of your mother and you realizing. And he knew many people need to understand his love, huh?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes. So now, of course, of course, that previous history gave me so many platforms, so people wanted, very many people wanted me to witness. Yeah, among those.

[John Burke]

But it's been dangerous to you, hasn't it?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, that was the most dangerous time because I was poisoned more than three times. The Lord saving me. I was attacked more than six times. You know, the Lord rescuing me miraculously. Let me tell you one event of God rescuing event because I knew only the Muslims. So of course I was running away from my home place to the city, to the city, thinking that maybe there I can get protection. So I went and stayed in a nearby city called the Musans. And I went, you know, I asked for somewhere to stay in an imam to my fellow imam's home. So because I knew that he maybe don't know about my conversion.

[Sponsor Voice (SimplePractice Ad)]

Okay.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

So I stayed in his home for that night. So when I reached 33 in the night, I had begun, you know, the kind of, you know, Muslims pray early in the morning. So that one had, you know, had kept being my routine. So when I woke up for praying, a voice just told me, enemy that right now, get out. Pack your things and get out. So I packed my things, I went Out. You know, after just closing the door, I saw four men with the guns and the machine entering the imam's house. So that night I was someone to be killed.

[John Burke]

They were coming to kill you.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

And.

[John Burke]

And the Lord warned you.

[Sponsor Voice (Thumbtack Ad)]

Wow.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

They warned you. Get out now. So I survived.

[John Burke]

Well, and, you know, so many people don't really realize, but, you know, the Lord's way. God's way is the way of. He created us with free will because he wants our love. And love can't be forced.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes.

[John Burke]

And it's just the opposite of the way. The way of the evil one is to try to enslave us and force. You have to force.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

And.

[John Burke]

And God doesn't do that, does he? He's. But you.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

You are.

[John Burke]

You are a brave. You're a brave man, Cedric. Even to.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

It is God's grace.

[John Burke]

What'd you say?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

It is God's grace.

[John Burke]

God's grace. Yeah. Well, I guess, you know. You know he can rescue you from literally anything, don't you?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yeah. That. That actually what makes me witness without fear.

[John Burke]

Wow.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I faced so many dangerous attacks and the Lord, you know, reshoot me, really. I don't think which one can really frighten me for now because I faced the most dangerous terrorism.

[Sponsor Voice (SimplePractice Ad)]

Right.

[John Burke]

Well. And if we could all just remember, you know, we're all here for a purpose and it's God's purpose and this life is just a very short beginning to the real story of life that's to come. And. And it's found in Jesus. And you are. You're a great witness of that in a. In a very powerful way. Thank you so much for taking the time. And I want to encourage everybody to. To go get your book. I once. I was once dead. It's also known as dying in Islam, Rising in Christ. That's what it first was published as. Is that right?

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

Yes, yes.

[John Burke]

But now I once was dead.

[Cedric (Sudhi Kanana)]

I need to end with this. Jesus is real. People should know that. Jesus is real. Hell is real and heaven is real.

[John Burke]

Yeah, it's an amazing, amazing story, isn't it? I mean, you just can't. They. They get more and more incredible. I'm in contact with Cedric today. His name was. But he. He changed it. He found he got less death threats at borders if his name was Cedric as an Anglican priest. But Jesus is real. What else would motivate Cedric to endure such persecution? You know, in many Muslim cultures, if you convert from Islam to Christianity, Sharia law says you deserve death. And in fact, Cedric's own father conspired with the leaders in the mosque to kill him at first and now things have changed since then. But God had to rescue Cedric again and again and again. That's fascinating. I want to explain why Jesus appeared as he did because I just find this fascinating. Jesus appeared to Cedric, then Swadik in his glorified state. You know, in another interview Cedric told me that Jesus had this brilliant light coming out of him. He said it was like, like sunshine. Swatig said, I think you, if you've heard the earlier episodes, you probably heard that episode with him. He said the light pierced right into his eyes and into his soul, filling him with a peace. This, this light from Jesus. And he said I died for mankind. Now that's fascinating that that's what Jesus said to Siddiq as he was in his glorified state, yet wearing a crown of foes thorns and showing the holes in his hands where he had been nailed to the cross. And that's very telling because Siddiq was a Muslim apologist, you know, meaning he argued for the faith of Islam with others. Now many Westerners don't realize it but Jesus is in the Quran, the holy book of Islam. Muslims actually respect Jesus as a prophet now. They don't believe that he died on the cross. They don't believe he's the son of God that they consider as blasphemy to say that God could be in the form of a man. Let me give you though just a little bit of background. I'm no expert but I have studied the world's religions. And just to give you a little history of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic scriptures, the old testament is 49 books that were written by 40 prophets approximately over a thousand year period. So between 1450 B.C. and about 440 B.C. those are the Jewish scriptures in the Old Testament of the Bible. The New Testament consists of 27 books written by nine authors and it covers the time from the time of Jesus through the early church, so about 5 BC to about 90 to 100 AD. Now Muhammad lived and wrote the Quran about 600 AD. So 600 years after Jesus lived, Muhammad lived in Mecca where his, his father and mother died when he was about 6. So he's mostly raised by his uncle. He later married Khadijah who was a woman about 15 years older than he was. Mecca was right on the caravan trade routes. So many Jews and Christians passing through, going to North Africa or other places they would, they would come through. And scholars think that's why the Quran has a lot of influences from the old and New Testament. Now Muslims would not say that. They would say that it was divine revelation from God through an angel to Muhammad. But the Quran references more than 50 people and historical events in the Bible, including accounts of Adam and Noah and Abraham, Moses, Mary and Jesus. Like the Quran says this to Moses we gave the book and sent a succession of messengers after him. We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear signs and strengthen him with the Holy Spirit. And the Quran uses the term Allah but that Arabic term was actually used before Muhammad. It's, it's an Arabic term that just means the God. It just means God. And so the Quran says very much like Deuteronomy 6, the Jewish Shema, the, the creed of Judaism, the Quran says say he is God, the one God, the self sufficient one. So Islam also says there is one true God, worship God only, same as the Jewish and Christian belief in theory. And the word Islam just means submission. So Islam is submission to the one true God. And they talk about how that comes by practicing the five pillars. I'm going to quickly run through these just so you'll understand the Shahada and I might butcher the pronunciation, so forgive me, the Shahada is the declaration of faith which is there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. So Muslims believe Muhammad was the final prophet of God who actually brought corrections to the errors in the Bible. So the Bible is the book of God, but there were errors that humans put in it and Muhammad brought corrections. The second pillar is Salah, the daily prayer five times a day. You know, when I go to India, many Muslims live in the village where the church I started helped build a hospital for the underserved there. And you wake up at 5am every morning to the Muslim, the first Muslim call to prayer that sounds out from the minaret. And so five times a day throughout the day, Muslims are called to pray. And then the third is Zakat charity. Muslims are required to give 2.5% of their savings yearly to help those in need. Then there's Sawam, which is fasting. During Ramadan, Muslims fast from sundown, sun up to sundown, and then they can eat that that night. But I'll tell you, my Muslim friends I play indoor soccer with, they're not much good during Ramadan, so it definitely affects them. And then the fifth is Hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca that each Muslim tries to make once during a lifetime. Now along with these five pillars, devout Muslims will often memorize the entire Quran, which is amazing. I mean, sweetie, did I wish I could get Christians to pray throughout the day and memorize even important passages from the Bible. Now the catch though is that they memorize the Quran in Arabic and the prayers daily are in Arabic, which most of those following Islam outside the Middle east don't understand at all. So they don't really know what it means. So it really ends up just being religious discipline but nothing about the heart and personal connection. So it's what it means to be a good Muslim. But there's no real sense of relationship with a God who is loving or personal. And honestly that's what many Muslims are, are longing for and missing. I remember if you saw an earlier episode, I interviewed Bibi from Tehran. She was the woman speaking Farsi or Persian and she said, you know, she did all the practices she longed for to have an intimate relationship with God but didn't know how. They don't know how to connect with God but Jesus showed us how. So anyway, Muhammad claimed that when he was 40 years old he was disturbed that there wasn't a prophet for, for his people. And he went off to a cave near Mecca and, and was there meditating and praying when he claimed that an angel appeared to him and in a series of times in this cave gave him the Quran which as I said is the correction of the Old and New Testament. Now interestingly, the hadiths which are the Muslim traditions written down say at first the angel was very rough with, with Muhammad and he came back terrified, wondering if the angel was a jinn, which is an evil spirit. But, but Khadijah convinced him that no, you are the prophet for our people. Now interestingly, the biggest correction has to do with Jesus, with who Muslims view Jesus to be. Like I said, they view him to be a great prophet even born of the Virgin Mary. It says this in the Quran. Oh Mary, your Lord gives you good news of a word from him. His name is the Messiah, Jesus. Jesus, son of Mary, honored in this world and in the next Lord, she said. Mary said, how can I have a child when no man has touched me? The angel replied thus it is God creates what he wills. So they believe Jesus is the Messiah, the anointed one, but not divine, not the son of God. He's anointed by God to heal, to heal the blind, to heal the lame. He really did those things they believe. But the critical essential difference has to do with Jesus, death and resurrection. So the Quran says this. They denied the truth and uttered a monstrous slander against Mary. They declared, we have put to death the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God. They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them as if it had been so. Okay, so the Quran given by an angel to Muhammad says Jesus did not die on the cross, so he did not pay for the sins of mankind. It seemed like he did, but they didn't crucify him and kill him. Now understand, this is the very heart, the very center of the Gospel, or what is called the good news for all people, that Christ died for all humanity, for you, for me, for everyone, to take away the sins of all people who turn back to God in faith, in what's called repentance, just turning back in trust. And Paul even says this about it. He says in First Corinthians 15 in the New Testament, and if Christ has not been raised, then your faith is useless and you're still guilty in your sins. In other words, you got to pay for them. In that case, all who have died believing in Christ are lost. And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we're more to be pitied than anyone in the world. But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. And Paul along with 500 others were witnesses and testified to this. Even a sweetie and many other near death experiencers even from the Muslim world are testifying to today. So that's the real critical question. Did Jesus die on the cross? And here's what's important to understand. You know, the best deceptions are 90% true. It's that 10% deception that then takes people away from the main thing that is at the heart of who God is and what he's done for them and what he wants for them. So let's just look at history. Now we have the nine eyewitnesses who are the writers of the New Testament, two by the way, which were Jesus Half brothers who didn't believe at first, James and Jude, and then were convinced when they saw the risen Jesus. Another one was a Pharisee, one of the members of the people who killed who, you know, had Jesus put to death Paul. And he thought everybody who followed Jesus was a blasphemer until the risen Jesus appeared to Paul, just like Suddiq. But we also have secular history. So in fact, even outside of the Bible, first century Jewish and Roman historians say these things about Jesus crucifixion. So Tacitus, a Roman governor and historian who writes a little after 60, says Christus Christ, from whom the name of Christians had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty that would be crucifixion in The Roman Empire during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate. Then Josephus, a 1st century Jewish historian writes about Jesus. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. Now some people will dispute Josephus but this part of it is definitely there. There is no doubt this is actually the Arabic version. Marbar Serpion I'm not sure I'm saying that. Right. Was a Syrian philosopher who wrote a letter in about 73 AD comparing the death of Jesus to that of Socrates and asked what advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king. It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. That was in 70 A.D. that the the Jewish people were scattered to all the nations. And then Lucian, a Greek satirist mocking Christians calls Jesus the quote crucified sophist so referring to him being crucified. Now even the records of the Pharisees like I said, the people who, who had Jesus turned over to Pontius Pilate and crucified recorded this on the eve of the Passover Yeshu, that's the Hebrew name for Jesus was hanged. That's in the Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin. So they hung Jesus on a Roman cross just like he showed to Sudik. The nail holes and many near death experiencers testify to this. Seeing this today. Now Dr. Bart Ehrman who is not a believer but a historian and a scholar summarizes well all of this in his book did Jesus exist? Here's what he says. Despite the enormous range of opinion there are several points on which virtually all scholars of antiquity or ancient history agree. Jesus was a Jewish man known to be a preacher and teacher who was crucified a Roman form of execution in Jerusalem during the reign of the Roman emperor Emperor Tiberius when Pontius Pilate was the governor of Judea there's no doubt. So Muhammad or the angel got it wrong. But this is the central point about Jesus. Now I know there are other important differences I'm not addressing. I'm not going to like jihad fighting unbelievers. That's in in the Quran versus Jesus telling us to love your enemies and do good toward them. But the most important question is who is Jesus and what did he really accomplish and how does that apply to all mankind? Now I think it's fascinating that Jesus told Suiddiq I died for mankind. And remember Jesus appears to Siddiq as the glorified risen Jesus. He said his beard was white, right? And this robe of light and yet he had a crown of thorns and shows him the nail holes and states this missing truth. I died for mankind. Now remember, that's what Sidi as a Muslim apologist had argued, that Jesus did not die. So Jesus is making a statement confirming the truth and what he said as well in Revelation when John saw him. And Jesus said, I died, but look, I'm alive forever and ever and I hold the keys to death and the grave. And he proved it to Siddiq and many others. He said, you are among those I died for. And he sent Cedric back. And Cedric is evidence, just one of thousands of this reality. In fact, today Cedric spends his life telling others all around North Africa about the love and the forgiveness and the fearless life of joy that he found in Jesus. And they can have too, despite what it cost him. And it cost him a lot. Now as Cedric said, Jesus is real, hell is real, heaven is real. And friends, he's the savior of all mankind. All who want him can find him. And you know, he's working behind the scenes today in ways we don't always know. He's drawing people to himself from all religious backgrounds. I personally know five Muslims who came to faith through Jesus, revealing himself in either dreams or visions or near death experiences. So he wants everyone to know his great love and unconditional forgiveness. But his main plan is that those of us who know him would let others know when he brings us into their lives. That's why Jesus told sweet Cedric, never deny it again and tell it to everyone. And you know, it's amazing because Cedric has no fear, even though he has much to fear, but he knows the one who can rescue even from hell. And so he can rescue you from anything. And I think his story, Cedric's story is, you know, brings a great question to ask yourself. Do you have that kind of trust in God that creates that kind of lack of fear? No fear of what people think about you. Who cares what people think about you? Even what they can do to you because ultimately this life is short, you know, do you have that kind of confidence or do you find you deny your faith often? You know, just kind of wanting to hide it so people won't think badly of you. Or is it natural for you to tell of the life and the peace and the joy and the love that God wants to offer everyone and he wants you and me who know him to let others know. Now it's not like religion though. That's the thing. See religion when it goes wrong and this is true in Islam, but it's also true in Christ, Christianity or Buddhism or anything else when it becomes about the things you ought to do or have to do to be a good person and prove yourself to God, you're missing the point. No, it's more. It's more of learning to live in a love relationship with God so that his life and love and peace and joy are something you want to bring to everyone because you have good will toward everyone, even your enemies. And so you tell them it's like one beggar telling another beggar where they can find bread, as someone once said, and open hearted, you know, letting people know where they can find the very source of love, who is crazy in love with them, with every person that he created. Well, I know that this leaves a lot of questions about, you know, what about those who grow up in other religious backgrounds who never hear about Jesus? And I deal with more of that in my book Imagine the God of Heaven, where I also interviewed 70 other testimonies of people from every major religious background who also discovered very similar things to what Siddiq did. But I'll also I'm going to tackle that question in a future podcast as well. But know this, the heart of God is for everyone and he has a way of reaching people, anyone, anywhere. Just like Cedric declared. Well, I hope this has been both educational and inspirational, and if so, please subscribe. You know this is a nonprofit podcast, but it's reaching over a hundred countries already and you help support this move ministry by subscribing and liking it and sharing it with others as well. So thank you for doing that. And until next episode, be blessed.