← Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Do NDEs Validate the Resurrection? 5 Global NDE Stories | Imagine Heaven by John Burke
01:27:33
Do near-death experiences point to the truth of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus? In this powerful episode, John Burke interviews five people—from India, Iran, Colombia, Rwanda, and the U.S.—who clinically died without expecting to meet...
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- [00:01]
John Burke
You know, after studying close to 1500 cases of near death experience, I found a very interesting question. Why would people of all different religious backgrounds, even agnostics, see Jesus in their near death experience? And do they see other religious figures like Krishna or Buddha or Allah? Who is Jesus? I mean, was he just a good teacher turned legend? Or do near death experiences actually give us evidence that maybe he was more? Well, I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times best selling book Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven and this is the Imagine Heaven podcast.
- [00:50]
Santosh
I was going higher and higher and then I could see the whole building and then went higher. I could see the whole city, country and then the whole earth. And then she said, I saw all the pain was in my life was getting far away from me. All the pain I saw, it was just, I saw it's leaving me behind and I'm going all high, high, high to heaven with Jesus.
- [01:14]
Bibi
And I realized as the light moved forward that it was a man and he was the source of that light. We were both standing there at 30 to 40ft up in the air.
- [01:26]
Heidi
We were standing there, experience the love, tenderness from him that I did not expect, Said, I'm sending you back to the earth. And when he was speaking to me just a few short distance from him on the, on the platform level, I saw a very narrow door or a narrow gate that was open. Everything in front of me I can see all the twelve gates that I see still outside there, they're all closed, but the only one open is the narrow door and a narrow gate that in front of me.
- [02:01]
Karina
It's hard because at this moment, that's when I realized that what I felt coming towards me was this white rope like this, it was just flowing. He's coming. And the closer he got, the more I want to see, but it harder for me to see. And I just could barely see. And I could see this beard, very trim, it's not long, very trim, white.
- [02:25]
John Burke
So why would Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, even agnostics and atheists see Jesus in their near death experience? I mean, is this proof or at least strong evidence of what people celebrate around the globe each Easter, that Jesus is really risen from the dead and alive? Well, you know, I want to show you today what led me from being an agnostic skeptical engineer, which I started thinking Jesus is just a legend. He was a good man, good teacher. But I ended up coming to faith and even becoming a pastor because of what I'm going to show you today. And one of the things where I started is I started to hear these near death experience stories. Today I'm going to let you hear from people. And none of these people, when they died, believed in Jesus. They died Hindu or Muslim or Jewish or agnostic. And yet who they encountered was Jesus in their near death experience. And when I first started to see this, it opened my mind like, well, maybe I should be more open to reading the Bible. So I start studying the Bible. I also studied the world's religions because I'm just a curious kind of skeptical person. And what I discovered I think will fascinate you. And that's what I want to share today. You know, there's this Jain parable, it's been adopted in, in Hinduism and Buddhism as well, that four blind men came upon an elephant one day. And they all felt different parts of the elephant. And the first felt its trunk and said that an elephant is like a snake. And the second one grabbed its leg and said, no, an elephant is like a tree. And the third felt the side of the elephant and said, no, an elephant is like a wall. The last one grabbed the tail and said, no, an elephant is like a rope. And this parable is supposedly saying, this is what all the religions of the world are doing. We're all describing the same God, but from our different perspectives. Now I think there's probably some truth to that parable in this sense that, you know, humanity, all of us, we're trapped in this finite existence of three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. And if there's a creator who created time and our three dimensions, God exists outside of all that. We can't go find God, in other words. And anything we're doing without God choosing to intersect our existence and reveal Himself, we're just blindly guessing. We're all blind. So my opinion is no better than your opinion or anyone else's. We can all have one, but we're all blind. But what we really need is someone who can see, who can see the elephant as the elephant actually is and describe what an elephant is actually like? Because the truth is an elephant is nothing like a rope or a snake or a tree or a wall. It's something entirely different. What if the first question we need to ask is not which religion is the right religion? You know, that's what people always, you know, they get in all these things about, you know, you think your religion's right or mine? It's the wrong first question. I think the, the right first question is, has God even claimed to intersect our three dimensions of space and One dimension of time to reveal to us blind people what God is really like. Because otherwise we are, we're just blindly guessing. Now if you just start with the sacred scriptures of the world's religions, which I've read the Bible many, many times, I've read the Quran, I've read large portions of the Hindu Vedas, the Tibetan Book of the Dead, the Buddhists, some of the Buddhists scriptures, and here's what you find if you, if you really study them. They do all have a common moral law. And you know, I think when people say things like well all the religions are basically saying the same thing, I think they mean this, that they basically are referring to the same common moral law. And interestingly the Bible talks about how this is what should be expected. In Romans chapter 2 it says this, even Gentiles or non Jewish people who do not have God's written law show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it. They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts for their own conscience and thoughts. Either accuse them or tell them they're doing right. The day is coming when God through Christ Jesus will judge everyone's secret life. It's fascinating because a commonality of near death experiences is they get this life review which, you know, maybe that's the preview of that. But all religions teach the same basic moral law. Which literary Oxford scholar C.S. lewis, who studied this, summarized it this way. Take a look. Don't do harm to another human by what you say or do. That's the golden rule. Honor your father and mother. Be kind towards brothers and sisters, children and the elderly. Do not have sex with another person's spouse. Be honest in all your dealings. Don't steal, do not lie. Care for those weaker or less fortunate. Dying to self is a path to life. Okay, so in about every culture, every religion, for all human history, we've known basic right and wrong and agreed on it. So what does that teach us? Have we all pretty much kept this moral law? Watch the news. I mean what it tells us is we're all royal screw ups. Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, even atheists. You ever, you ever said I'll never, but you did. We can't even keep our own moral law, much less God's moral law. So what does, what does this mean? I mean the question then is if there's a God, will God judge us? Will God condemn us? Does God grade on the curve? And in this instance the different religions disagree. But if you just ask the question, well, has God even revealed himself in actual Human history in a way that could be verified. What I found is actually there's only one scriptures that even claims this in a way that could be verified and that's the Jewish scriptures written over a period of about 1500 years. Now I'm not the only one who discovered this. Interestingly, Dr. Mortimer Adler, philosophy, who was a philosophy professor at the University of Chicago, also the chief editor of the Encyclopedia Britannica. He wrote 60 books. He was called America's philosopher by Time magazine and he was an agnostic almost his whole life. But near the end of life he started asking, is there any truth to be found in religion or is it just, you know, good moral ideas? And so he wrote a book called Truth in Religion and look at what he comes to. The conclusion he comes to. He said only three religions claim to have a supernatural foundation to be found in a sacred scripture that purports or claims to be a divine revelation. The three religions distinguished by this claim are Judaism, Christianity and the religion of Islamic. Among the other religions, only some claim to have logical or factual truth. But the truth they claim is of human, not divine origin. All right, let me explain. So the secular philosopher discovers, if you just read the sacred text of the world's great religions and take them at face value, what they actually claim. There are only three that even claim that a creator God has revealed himself in actual human history. The others claim spiritual wisdom, moral truths often told through mythological stories, but they're not set in actual real history. There's, there's no way to verify it. So the Jewish Old Testament claims that God was speaking through prophets for 1500 years before the time of Jesus, foretelling when this Jewish Messiah would come as the Savior for all nations was always for all nations. Christians claim that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah foretold. Then Muslims claim that 600 years after Jesus died, an angel meets Muhammad in a, in a cave in the Middle east and reveals to Muhammad that the Old and New Testament are mostly correct but needed correction explicitly regarding Jesus. That Jesus did not die on the cross, it says in the Quran and he was not the son of God. So interestingly, all three deal with the issue of who is Jesus. Now interestingly, Jesus said this. Yes, it was written long ago that the Messiah, or in Greek, that's the word Christ, the Messiah must suffer and die and rise again from the dead on the third day that this message of salvation should be taken from Jerusalem to all the nations. There is forgiveness of sins for all who turn to me now if this is true, this is great news for all people of all nations. Because what it means is God does not just condemn us for our failures. He will actually forgive. And he will take anyone back who seeks him and turns back to him. Now I believe that near death experiences are confirming this truth all around the globe today as evidence that God cares about every person in every nation. Santosh is one person I interviewed. He grew up in India. He knew the Hindu scriptures very well, but he'd never read the Bible. He was a manufacturing engineer. When he was in the hospital and his heart stopped. He hears code blue, code blue. And he. He thought, he told me, I thought I would come back as another life form when I died. But that's not what happened. He said this divine light, brighter than the sun, a million times brighter, comes to him. And he falls in love with this light. And this light takes him. And he describes looking out over this city that he knew was the kingdom of God. He describes exactly what. What John describes in Revelation chapter 21. Then he sees the reality of hell and describes that. And he longs to go into the kingdom of heaven. He said this was home. But listen then as he describes seeing the Almighty on his throne.
- [13:52]
Heidi
I want to enter into the kingdom of heaven. But I can't. I cannot go back where I came from. Because that's a no. No. Once I leave this world, there's only one way ticket. You cannot go back. So my only option was to fall into that lake of fire. From where I'm going to fall is all abyss. And at that time, I looked at the center of the platform. And on the center of the platform I saw there are three steps. And on the third step I saw there was a huge throne. And on that throne, it felt like somebody was sitting there. So I looked up. There was the Almighty. He was sitting there. And as soon as I saw him, I knew he was the Almighty. Because there's no one higher than him. I knew it automatically. Nobody had to introduce him to me. I saw his face and all the sins I committed was flushed before my eyes. So I kept repeating the same thing. The Lord, please forgive me. Please forgive me. I also, I felt that my knees automatically bowed down. Even my body was. It felt like my big. My knees automatically bowed down to him.
- [15:17]
John Burke
What. And what did he look like? What were you seeing?
- [15:20]
Heidi
To me, he appeared to be like a giant. His eyes were filled like lightning bolts. It was very, very scary. So I kept pleading to him, please forgive me. Please forgive me. And I was waiting. At any moment, he's going to command me to dive down. And then finally he spoke to me. When he spoke to me, his voice was full of tenderness, mercy and the grace. He said, I'm sending you back to the earth. Complete your unfinished tasks and then I'll see you again. When the Lord speak spoke to me, I felt I was not shaking anymore. I was not scared anymore.
- [16:05]
John Burke
Why is that?
- [16:07]
Heidi
Because of the wise tenderness, the love that he showed to me.
- [16:12]
John Burke
Mercy, you were experiencing love now from him.
- [16:17]
Heidi
Experience the love tenderness from him that I did not expect. Said, I'm sending you back to the earth. And when he was speaking to me, just a few short distance from him, on the. On the platform level, I saw a very narrow door or a narrow gate that was open. I could see through this narrow door, narrow gate, the entire kingdom of heaven, everything in front of me. I can see the all the 12 gates that I see still outside there. They're all closed. But the only one open is the narrow door and a narrow gate that in front of me. And that is the only gate through whom through the gate that I can enter into the kingdom of heaven. So when the Lord was speaking to me, I got little courage. I asked the Lord, when you see me again, please tell me how I can go through this narrow door. Because next time when he's seeing me, Lord, I want to go to the narrow door. When I go back, please tell me which church, which temple, which mosque, which synagogue, or any other place that you want me to join, I'll join. Please tell me. Finally he responded. He said to me, those things are not important to me. I was totally shocked because I thought the more religious a person is, the closer to heaven he is. But he's telling me those things are not important to me. He said, I want to see how honest, how true, how sincere you are with me 365 days a year, not just once a week or once a month. I want to see how sincere. I want to see your relationship with me. What's your relationship once you are back to your family? I want you to love your family and love your children. Always tell the truth. Tell the truth, but do not lie. But also tell the truth. What do you see? What do you witness here?
- [18:33]
John Burke
So he wanted you to tell the truth about what you're seeing.
- [18:36]
Heidi
What I'm seeing in front the heaven.
- [18:39]
John Burke
The heaven, the compound.
- [18:41]
Heidi
And where are you going to fall? Right, and I'm going to fall. That's the truth. It's going to. You'll have only two things. Either go up front or Fall down. There is no way you can go back where you came from. No reincarnation or what they think. There is no such thing. And the only way you can enter into the kingdom is through the narrow gate. Okay, next instruction. He said to me, the wages of sin is death. Commit no more sins by that, because.
- [19:14]
John Burke
None of us can never sin.
- [19:18]
Heidi
This is exactly what he's telling. Wages of sin is death. Surrender yourself completely. Should underline completely unto me in your daily lives. Walk with me, which is a very. Is a completely different language for me. I come from a different background. I don't understand. How can I walk with God? To me, he looks like he's a mighty giant. His one step will be like, I have to run a race just to do his 1. How can I walk with him? Final instruction he gave to me is, be kind to the poor, Be generous to the poor. They need your help. People can be poor in many ways. Physically poor, mentally poor, emotionally poor, spiritually poor. These days, even. Even when I look at many people going to the churches every Sunday, many of them are spiritually poor. To just go there to have a relationship with him. The next thing I know, I'm back to the hospital. After I came back, I. As soon as I get on my feet, they put me on a new assignment. That. My new assignment was in China, which meant me. I had to travel there to China quite often, quite frequently. But it was still bothering me. I did not experience anything in my former religion or I did not know what that meant. It was bothering me big time. And I was really anxious to know the things that I witnessed, what they meant, what they actually meant.
- [20:58]
John Burke
I know for two years you were. You were praying for understanding of who this God is, right?
- [21:05]
Heidi
Yes, I was. It was bothering me because I did not know that this almighty God that I met, who that person is, who that. Who he is. It's not like what I learned in my religion or somewhere else. I was meditating, meditating upon that. See, who is that God? So finally, you know, my daughter, she got invited to his great church here in Middleburg Heights. She was invited by her friend to come to a. I think it was an Easter service to join the choir. She was in a choir group from the university. So she asked, you know, mom and dad, can you come? And we're going to be singing in the choir. Can you come? So we came. And the very first time I came to this church, Jonathan started speaking about narrow door, narrow gate, as if he was just speaking exclusively to me. Okay, So I heard his sermon. I took some notes from the Bible. I went back and looked at those Bible verses and it got me very interested because this is exactly what I witnessed. Okay. I keep, kept on coming to this church every Sunday, listening to Jonathan, and gradually everything came clear to me, what this narrow door means. Narrow door means you need to come through Jesus Christ. He is our only door. This is the only door you can come in. No other. There's no other Savior out there. There's only one Savior. I came to know Jesus is the way, the only way. And he loves us so much, he doesn't care. He doesn't care which religion, which background, which ethnicity I have. He loves us so much that he came down from, from his place in heaven to come down to rescue us from here. Makes perfect sense. I am now pleading to anybody from any religion to come to know Jesus because he is the only Savior in the whole universe. Is no other thing.
- [23:27]
John Burke
No, Santosh is just one of many near death experiencers who've discovered the same thing. You know, like he said, God doesn't want religious observation once a week. He wants our hearts, he wants relationship every day of the week. That's what he created us for, love. It's interesting. Santosh did tell me he did go and get involved in a, in a church because he said, you know, it's God's desire that we learn and grow together in community and that, that is important. But ultimately he doesn't want us to just jump through religious hoops. God wants honesty and relationship. You know, I find it so fascinating because many times when people don't know who this God is, he gives them a parable. Kind of like he gave Santosh a parable. You know, Jesus taught in parables. He said to test the hearts of people. Will they just get frustrated and blow them off or will they really seek because they really do want to seek, to understand and know? You know, it says in 1st Chronicles 28, the Lord sees every heart and knows every plan and thought, and if you seek him, you will find him. And Santosh did seek him with all his heart and he did find him, you know, and as he said two years later, he goes to this church and here's what the message was. You can enter God's kingdom only through the narrow gate, Matthew 7. And then where Jesus says, I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. Yes, I am the gate. Those who come in through me will be saved. They will come and go freely and find good pastures. The thief's purpose is to Steal and kill and destroy. But my purpose is to give them a rich, satisfying life. See, God wants all of us to know him as he truly is. That's what relationship requires, right? And he wants to lead us as we follow him into a rich and satisfying life. That's why he doesn't want us to follow, you know, made up Gods from our mythologies or just in our heads. And by the way, some Christians think they have the right God, but the God in their head is nothing like who Jesus really is. He wants us to know his loving, merciful, kind, forgiving character. But he also wants us to know, just like Santosh said to me, he's holy and he's just and we've all sinned. You know, God showed Santosh and he shows them all that when they have their life review. And he quotes this verse to Santosh, for the wages of sin is death. But the free gift of God, it goes on to say, is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. See, above all, God wants relationship. And that's why he's done for all people of all nations what he did through Jesus. You know, he, he, he's not going to force himself on us because religious relationship requires freedom. Freedom to seek and want to know and love the other, to trust God and follow him, or freedom to reject God and say, no, you know, my will be done. I'm playing God of my life. I know what's best for me. You know, Santosh interestingly thinks he saw the risen Jesus. He said, he said, I realize that Jesus is the face of the unseen God of light. But this is the glorified Jesus that John describes in Revelation 1. That's who Santosh described in Revelation 1. It says he, Jesus was wearing a long robe with a gold sash across his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, which I think turns out to be light. His eyes were like flames of fire, Santosh said, like lightning. His feet were like polished bronze, refined in the furnace. And later Santosh saw that too and told me about it. And his voice thundered like mighty ocean waves. His face was like the sun in all its brilliance. And he said, I am the first and the last, the living one. I died, but look, I'm alive forever and ever. Now this seems too good to be true. And yet here's how we know it is true. God foretold it. He foretold who, where, when, what and why regarding the Messiah so we could know this is not myth. It's God intersecting human history. Now I'M going to geek out just a little bit going through some of this prophetic foretelling and historical proof, because this is what convinced me. But when I was a skeptic, I would have said, oh, well, you know, this supposed fulfilled prophecy was probably doctored up after Jesus lived to make it look like Jesus fulfilled the prophecies. But, you know, it doesn't prove anything. But we know proof positive that's false. In 1948, we discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls. And in the Dead Sea Scrolls, we found parts of 38 of the 39 books of the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible, including a complete copy of the Book of Isaiah. University of Arizona scientists carbon dated it. Here's what they found. New radiocarbon measurements of the Dead Sea Scrolls made by scientists at the National Science foundation. Radiocarbon dated the famous Book of Isaiah scroll at between 335 BCE and 122 BCE. Paleographers had dated this scroll at between 150 and 125 BCE. Here's what you have to understand when I read to you from Isaiah. Today I'm reading the Dead Sea Isaiah version, the scroll version copied 100 to 300 years before Jesus. Isaiah wrote it down in about 680 BC. This copy I'm reading, you can read it online. Proof positive. Predated Jesus. Yet look what it foretold. In it, God says this through Isaiah. Tell us what the future holds so that we may know you are gods. You are my witnesses, says Yahweh, and my servant, whom I have chosen so that you may know and believe me. He wants to be known and understand that I am He. Before me, there was no God who has announced this from antiquity, from ancient times, who has told it from then. Is it not I, Yahweh? And there's no other God besides me, a righteous God and a Savior. There's none beside me. Turn to me and be saved. All the ends of the earth. Now, again, this is written down in 680 B.C. and he's saying, here's how you'll know the one true God. I alone have intersected real human history and told you in advance what I was going to do so you could know I'm God. And he said, notice he's doing it for all nations. He's the God of all people. And he foretold who this Messiah would be. So Isaiah, writing in 680B.C. Says this in Isaiah 9, in Galilee of the Gentiles, the people walking in darkness have seen a great light. Those dwelling in the land of the shadow of death, light has come upon, has shined upon them. Because a child shall be born to us, a son is given to us, and the government shall be on his shoulders, and he shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, the Prince of peace. Of the increase of his government and peace, there shall be no end upon the throne of David and over his kingdom, to order it and to establish it in judgment and righteousness from and until eternity. The zeal of Yahweh, of hosts will perform this. Okay, so who is this God says Mighty God will be born a child from the lineage of King David. All right, now you have to understand. Judaism was not polytheistic, was monotheistic. Their creed is there is only one God worship the one true God only. So here for Isaiah to write that mighty God would intersect human history as a man born a child, that. That would be bizarre. But this is the mystery that came to be known as the coming Messiah. And this Messiah had an address in history. Where the Messiah would live would be Galilee. Right? Isaiah 9, in Galilee of the Gentiles, the people walking in darkness have seen a great light. And this light called Mighty God is going to bring peace and justice to humanity forever. If you notice that now Jesus was from Nazareth, that Nazareth is in Galilee. That's where he grew up. And he did most of his teachings and miracles right there around the Sea of Galilee. And this, by the way, is confirmed in history. Okay, in the Bible. Yes, but even outside the Bible, you know, we have about eight or nine Roman and Jewish historians, ancient sources written within 100 years of the life of Jesus, confirming these historical facts, including that he taught and did miracles in and around Galilee and Judea. So Josephus was a 1st century Jewish Roman historian who writes this. Now, around this time lived Jesus a wise man, for he was a worker of amazing deeds and was a teacher of people who gladly accept the truth. He won over many Jews and many Greeks. Pilate, when he heard him accused by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross. But those who had first loved him did not cease doing so. To this day, the tribe of Christians named after him has not disappeared. Okay, and by the way, this is the scholarly redaction of Josephus writing, taking out any supposed, you know, some claim that Christians doctored it up after the fact. This is taking all that out. And then you also have like the Talmud, the books of the religious leaders who had Jesus crucified, saying this, on the day before the Passover, they hanged Jesus Yeshua because he practiced magic and enticed Israel to go astray. And here's what you see. They didn't deny his miracles, they just called it sorcery. So Jesus was a historical person who lived and taught in Galilee in Judea. He performed miracles and he was crucified by Pilate. And all this is confirmed in secular history and plus in the Bible. And near death experiencers around the globe are confirming this. They see this God of light who is love, is compassionate and forgiving. Sometimes they see him just as light. Sometimes they see him as this giant white robed man, but with light exploding off his face. So they can't really see the face, kind of like the glorified Jesus. Sometimes they see just a normal looking Middle Eastern man in a beard and a white robe and shoulder length hair. But they know he's God. I want you to listen as Bibi, who had a heart attack while living in Iran describes to me. And she only speaks Persian or Farsi, but her son is translating. And she had two experiences. The first was her NDE when she had a heart attack. She comes back and she is seeking this God she met. And a year later at New Year's Eve, she has another experience where God's identity becomes certain to her. Listen.
- [35:58]
Heidi
In a better story.
- [35:59]
Santosh
So it has three parts. So the first part is her spirit departs her body, she sees her body. The second part is she sees her body is dead. The third part is she receives some vision when she's in spirit.
- [36:17]
John Burke
Gotcha.
- [36:18]
Santosh
That vision shows that they put her in a grave, like in the Islamic way, the stone on the top. And she hits the, the stone and was so painful. And then she was expecting that the Muslim judgment man, which is Ali, you know, Prophet Ali of Islam come. She was waiting that she, he comes to judge her because that's what Shias believes. So she was waiting that she's dead. And she hits the stone very hard, means she's probably very sinner, you know. So she was waiting for a very horrible judgment. But Ali didn't come. And then she sees a man come completely in a white robe and that man just says two words to him. I am he. I am.
- [37:09]
John Burke
So tell me more about that. What did she. So she's there in the room up above her body?
- [37:15]
Santosh
Yeah, she said after I forgot to say that. And when she hear the man said I am who I am or I am he who I am, you know, I am name that Moses heard. So she said, when I heard that I felt my spirit, my body felt down on the ground and Then I went back. I saw my spirit is back to my body and I'm alive again, going back to normal life, reality. He. He was so tall and his robe was very long. So when I was. I tried to look at her. He was so, you know, higher than me. He wasn't like a normal size of a man. But when she. He started talking to me. All I remember I was trembling, I was shaking and it was like a presence on me start shaking my body. And I could look inside his face. But I. That time I didn't know this is a face of Jesus. I could see the face, but I couldn't recognize whose face is this which later when I met Jesus, I founded out that that was the face of Jesus. But after I woke up, it was a huge peace in my heart, in my life, that I never experienced it in my life. But after that she starts seeing so many dreams, she said and I, she. It was very interesting because I saw myself everywhere I go. I don't wear hijab anymore when I'm going to street, talking to people, even to mosque, everywhere. It was very interesting for me to see myself in a dream that I don't wear Islamic hijab because she was like very like. Which I call them ninja, you know, Ninja hijab.
- [39:41]
Heidi
Yeah.
- [39:43]
Santosh
So she was. She said I start seeing dreams that God was showing me that I. I'm not wearing hijab anymore.
- [39:51]
John Burke
He was free from having to wear that in the dreams.
- [39:55]
Santosh
So exactly.
- [39:56]
John Burke
Ok.
- [40:33]
Santosh
So everything was as I said was like foggy. I could see dreams. I had this meeting I heard about I am who I am. But it wasn't very clear until that new year celebration was happening.
- [40:49]
John Burke
So.
- [40:50]
Santosh
But this time was little different because when she passed out, when she fell down, it was there for hours and we felt she's dead because the way she fell down was completely disconnected with the world. You know, when the people, they were touching her face, she didn't respond. Her eyes was closed, we couldn't take it, open their eyes. So she was breathing, her heart was beating, but no other response. She says the first one who I saw was huge, wasn't completely look like human. It was like a very huge white robe with a face. But I couldn't see the face. It was light, you know what I mean? But the second one was like a human and it looked like a very glorious king. And it has a face that I could, when I look, I could recognize. But the first one I could look, but I couldn't recognize who it is.
- [42:15]
John Burke
And how did she know? Why did she not think this is Allah? Why did the first. No.
- [42:36]
Santosh
Because it wasn't Ali. You know, Ali has a face in Shia, you know, because he wasn't Ali. So I know this, this process is completely cut. It's something else. The truth is something else.
- [42:48]
John Burke
Did she know who it.
- [42:58]
Santosh
She says that's the only thing I heard is was. But I didn't know who I am. I am is.
- [43:05]
Karina
Yeah, but now I know.
- [43:15]
Santosh
Jesus is the face of unseen God. She said, after the first time, when I. Jesus grabbed me in his arm, I start touching his face and start kissing him and recognizing who is. Who I am, who I am. Is it Jesus? I. It's like I completely got fit to what I was waiting for. So. And then, you remember she said, and then Jesus put me down and then I start asking, begging him, why you are doing. I was waiting for you. Don't let me down. And Jesus said to him, okay, I don't know, what is the English word? Like people who keep knocking and asking and knocking and asking English word for.
- [44:09]
John Burke
Such a person, like persistent.
- [44:13]
Santosh
Yes, you are so persistent. Like the way he likes. So he grabs me again in his arm. That's the time he goes higher with him. And she was kind of like it, you know, I remember the first time when she told me that this experience after she came back to normal, she said, I look at you and then I saw Jesus was standing on your head. And he looked like a king with a stick in his hand. And then when I look at him, I just fell down. And when I fell down, he grabs me with one hand and I was like a lamb in his hand. That was the word she said. She never read Bible before, but when she came back 20 years ago, she said I. I saw myself like a little lamp in his hand. And then he took me up from everything. So when I was departing from my body, I could see you and your sister are praying for me. One is trying to bring water, the other is trying to make me back. I was going higher and higher. And then I could see the whole building and then went higher. I could see the whole city, country and then the whole earth. And then she said, I saw all the pain was in my life was getting far away from me. And I could feel it's coming out because she had a very hard life, you know, even before I go to prison, she lost her brother, was killed her sister. So she said, all the pain I saw, it was just. I saw it's leaving me behind and I'm Going all high, high, high to heaven with Jesus. So she said, I had the huge peace and you know, the spirit was so gentle, like heaven. When I was in Jesus, she was keep saying it was heaven, his arm was heaven. And then suddenly the whole process start, stops. And Jesus said, and she start talking to Jesus. She says, I don't want to go back there anymore because it's so much pain. I don't want to even go back to be with my children. So, and then Jesus said, no, you cannot be with me all the time now, now it's not the time you need to go back to the world because still it's some unfinished job for you. So you need to finish them. And then one day I'll come back again and take you the same way with me to heaven forever.
- [46:42]
John Burke
So here is a Muslim woman living in Tehran, expecting Ali. And yet Yahweh the great I am is who shows up. And she comes back praying and seeking with all her heart. And God honors that. He honors our seeking willingness. And the next year he reveals himself to her as Jesus in this second experience. And she said in, in this interview, he was the love that I have always wanted. He was everything I have ever hoped for or dreamt of. And interestingly, it cost them dearly as they became followers of Jesus. There were death threats. Her son was put in, in prison. They had to leave Iran. And how do you explain this? Hindus and Muslims. And you can read the stories of 70 others like them I interviewed and imagine the God of heaven, but they are meeting this God of all nations who actually reached in to human history. He foretold who would do this and where he would come, but also when, interestingly, he said the Messiah would come before the temple is destroyed. Okay, so Daniel the prophet wrote in about 500 B.C. the Jewish people had been in captivity in Babylon. Daniel knew it would only be for 70 years. And the 70 years is almost up. So he's praying God, show us the future of our people, of the Jewish people. And interestingly, the angel Gabriel comes to reveal to Daniel what's going to happen to the Jewish nation. Now also just know parts of the book of Daniel were also found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, predating Jesus. So, and also Gabriel. The next time Gabriel's going to show up in history is to let Mary know that she's pregnant and going to give birth to Jesus. So look at what Gabriel reveals. He says this. A period of 70 sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city, Jerusalem, to finish their rebellion. Put an end to their sin, atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness. All right, let's pause a second. So 70 sets of seven is the time decreed for the Jewish people to play a key role in human history in atoning for guilt and sin and bringing in everlasting righteousness. I mean, it sounds like the total of human history, right? So the question is, like, sevens of what? It's kind of, you know, again, if. If. If people aren't willing to seek, they're just like, ah, whatever. That's. I don't understand. Well, it can't be sevens of days or sevens of weeks because we're talking about atoning for all guilt and ending sin and everlasting righteousness. This is the end of human history, so it must be sevens of years. So look at what it goes on to say. Now listen and understand. Seven sets of seven plus 62 sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler, the anointed one. The Hebrew word is meshach, which we translate as Messiah. Until Messiah comes, Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses despite the perilous times. Turns out the first seven times seven years, 49 years, is about how long it took to rebuild Jerusalem after this period of 62 sets of seven. So after this seven plus 62, the anointed one, the Messiah, will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city of Jerusalem, the holy city, and the Temple. All right, this is very specific. So follow this. Messiah will come and be killed before the temple in Jerusalem is destroyed. All right, real history. 70 AD the Roman general Titus marches on Jerusalem. He's tired of the Jews and all their trouble, wipes out the city, destroys the temple. Here's what his Encyclopedia Britannica says about it. By August 70 CE, the Romans had destroyed the second temple. The Western wall, the only extant trace of the second temple remains a site of prayer and pilgrimage. So when Messiah had to come before 70 CE because the temple was destroyed then, and it still has not been rebuilt to this day. Now, that's specific. But the angel gets even more specific if you can follow this. So he says 70 sets of seven. Seven sets of seven plus 62 sets of seven. Okay. Or seven times seven years plus 62. Seven years, which is 483 years will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah. Okay, so when the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem, start the clock, go 483 years. That's when Messiah will come. Come. This is pretty specific right now. I'm not going to get into all the minute details. I get into it in the book, imagine the God of heaven. But here's what we know. Art Xerxes. So in Ezra, Chapter 7, a book of the Bible, Art Xerxes is the Persian king now ruling in Babylon where the Jews are. And it says in his seventh year year, he declares that the Jews could go rebuild Jerusalem. And, and what is copied in the Hebrew Bible is a Persian text. It's. It's Aramaic, the language of the the Persians. And so it's a literal copy of this decree. Now we know that Art Xerxes started ruling according to Encyclopedia Britannica in 465 BC so the seventh year of his reign. Remember BC you count backwards. So that would be 457 BC his art Xerxes decree. So you start the clock and go 483 years from there and you come to 27 AD when Jesus began his ministry. All right, even if you didn't follow the church math, Messiah already came because the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and it was foretold that he would be killed before the temple's destroyed. So who, where, when and even what Messiah would do was foretold right there in Isaiah, which again I'm reading from a copy that predates Jesus. So look at how Isaiah 52 and 53 spell out what Jesus would do, including crucifixion and resurrection. Says, behold my servant. And this is referring to Messiah shall deal prudently. He shall be exalted because his visage or appearance was marred more than any man, his form more than the sons of men. So shall he startle many nations. And the kings shall shut their mouths at him who has believed our report. And the arm of Yahweh to whom it has been revealed, he shall come up like a suckling before us. Like a tiny plant growing up out of the ground as a root from dry ground. He's despised and rejected of men. A man of sorrows and knowing grief. Okay, so notice this. What? God's arm. Messiah will suffer for all nations. Okay, so Jesus was like God's arm reaching into our three dimensional world to reveal what the unseen God is like. He's not all there is to the infinite eternal God. That's why scripture claims this. No one has ever seen God but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is closest in relationship with the Father, has made him known. Now people will say, well, doesn't this Mean that near death experiences aren't seeing God? No, because you know, Isaiah saw God on his throne, Daniel, Ezekiel, but no one has ever seen all there is to God, the infinite, eternal God. All we see is a, a form, a representation which Jesus was in human form. Yet think about this, the Creator. Why would the Creator intentionally subject himself to our worst human suffering, including betrayal and slander and torture and even crucifixion. It was for love. That is the immense love God has for you. He's like a parent who steps in front of the bullet and takes the bullet to save you, his child. That's what Jesus came to show us, the immense love of God. You know what's fascinating is the Shroud of Turin. There's actually new evidence that it probably was from the first century. And what they found is the image on the cloth actually conveys three dimensional imagery. It's like light came out of this body and imprinted three dimensional information onto the cloth. They don't know any technology that can make the kind of image that that did. We don't have a technology like that. And so what's fascinating is because there's three dimensional information in the cloth, they used AI to create a three dimensional model of the person that was buried in that cloth. And do you know that one of the, the researchers, not believers, they counted 135 marks or lashes on the body of this person in the Shroud of Turin. And Isaiah said he was marred more than any man out of love because he created us to be his children. Now I want you to hear from two more near death experiencers who absolutely did not experience respect. Jesus Swadik was a Muslim imam who, who used to argue against Christians. He, he grew up in Rwanda, he gets blood cancer. His mom who worshiped the goddess Baco tries all their magic spells. His dad was a Muslim imam as well, tries to get the Muslims to pray and do their thing. Nothing helped him. In desperation his mom goes to the Anglican Church and said, I hear sometimes people are healed in Jesus name, will you pray for my son in Jesus name? And they said, you pray in his name with us. Swiddique starts off in a hellish place, but listen who comes in to rescue him and what that was like. And then Heidi Barr had a near death experience at 16 when her horse landed on her. She grew up Jewish, her dad was an atheist who every night said, there is no God. You, your life is worthless. Jesus Christ is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind. Yet she always believed in God. And prayed to God every night. And listen, as Heidi describes meeting that God that she prayed to. And do you think was this a hellish place? Were these. What were these people?
- [58:54]
Swadik
Yeah, you know, because I found myself in a very big. In a very big room. And it was like a butchery, as if they threw too many things, many people, maybe animals and whatever. And you know, I was feeling so hot, as if I was put into a fanatical fire of like more than 100 degrees. But it was too hot for me, that place. And you know, this men came and were trying. They wanted, you know, to cut me into piece. Now that one with an axe. So hold it up as if it is going to cut me into now pieces, you know, holding up on. Directly on my heart. So now before it brings it down to cut me so that very same window, a person entered. So and this person, of course was wearing a white garment with the sandals, you know, holding his hand, you know, showing them to me with the very. These very big holes into his hands. He told me, I died for men. You are among those I died for. Never deny it again and tell this to everyone. So the person disappeared. And of course, seeing those holes, I had watched a movie long ago where, of course, when I was still a Muslim, I had to watch the movie where they were saying, this one is Jesus. But I never cared for it as a Muslim, that was not interesting to me. But that image with those holes where they pierced him. So of course that is what indicated me that this was the person I was watching in the movie being called Jesus. Of course I woke up, I went out, I found that already people had come for body. So I saw they were digging the tomb.
- [61:23]
John Burke
They were digging your grave?
- [61:25]
Swadik
Yes, they are digging my graves and saying, oh, what? I think someone is dead here. So I started wondering, who, who, who, who? Is there someone who has died or you are the one who has died. So I started checking on myself, okay, am I dead? Am I dead? So now. But when as I. As I was still asking myself those questions among people, among people were in front of me, I saw that same Jesus standing among them. So pointing the finger at me. So when he pointed the finger at me, I remember he has told me to tell everyone. So I started shouting, you people, you see Jesus is in front of you. I'm seeing him. He is there. He's the one who has been brought me back and just told me that he died for men. So I know when I kept shouting, that is when people started running away, running away.
- [62:41]
Bibi
It was when I had that thought that I noticed a light shining over my shoulder or my shoulders, but it. Mostly my right shoulder. And it was lighting up everything, like the sun, but it wasn't the sun. It was lighting up everything before me. That's all I can say. It was shining behind me, lighting up everything before me. And I realized as the light moved forward that it was a man. And he was the source of that light. And he. He kind of. He and I. What I'd like to say is, because it's. It works best, is to say we were both standing there at 30 to 40ft up in the air. We were standing there. So he moved forward and was standing next to me up in the air. And at that moment, I recognized him immediately. I recognized him as Jesus. He didn't say anything.
- [63:37]
Heidi
He didn't.
- [63:37]
Bibi
There was no chest thumping. There was no, I am Jesus, hear me roar I am Jesus Believe in me.
- [63:43]
John Burke
Yeah.
- [63:44]
Bibi
I just knew. He smiled at me. He looked me in the eyes, and I knew immediately who was. And I recognized him. And I knew he was who I had been talking to all those years. He was the person who had been sitting at bedside. I mean, he was. When I would talk to God at night when I was a little kid, that's who I was talking to.
- [64:03]
John Burke
And you just. How did you know that?
- [64:05]
Bibi
I knew it in my heart. I knew it with different eyes. I saw him with. I was able to see with different eyes, and I recognized him instantly. And I knew he had always been at my side. Always. There was no. There was no great, oh, wow, where'd you come from? There was just, wow. Hi. I know you, you know, I just. That's how it was. It was a knowing in my heart. It wasn't seeing with these eyes, even though I did see them with these eyes. It was seeing with these eyes. It's. It's different. It's a different kind of seeing.
- [64:46]
John Burke
So you weren't expecting Jesus the last. The last being you would expect to encounter, yet you did. And what was it like in his. In his presence? What was that like?
- [65:02]
Bibi
That's so hard to describe. It was like being with the person who has. Who knows you better than anyone else? It's being with the person who has always known you, being with the person who loves you and accepts you for. For what you are. I mean, he was so beautiful. And he wasn't perfect. And let me tell you what I mean by he wasn't perfect. His nose was crooked. He didn't have a perfect nose. His nose Was crooked.
- [65:43]
John Burke
That's what you noticed.
- [65:46]
Bibi
So it's true. His nose was perfect. Wasn't perfect. His hair was, I mean, kind of like mine. It was about the length of mine, a little bit curly. He didn't have like this coif. He didn't have. He didn't have styled hair. But he was perfect in my eyes. And his love for me was palpable. I could feel his love for me. It emanated from him. It surrounded me. And when he looked at me with. When he looked at me, when he looked into my eyes, he knew everything about me. And he loved me anyway. And I loved him. And we were best friends. And he was my brother and he was my dad. We were all those things all at once. And it's so hard to explain. And his eyes are filled with humor and laughter and gaiety and joy and love.
- [66:50]
John Burke
I mean, it's amazing, don't you think? It's. I mean, the risen Jesus shows up to Muslims who die in Rwanda and Iran, Hindus from India, Jewish girl who was only told that Jesus is a hoax. And yet all of them know that this is God. This is the one true God. And like Heidi said, he's your best friend, your father, like Bibi said, he is the love that you've always wanted. You know, recently Heidi sent me a picture. She saw a picture of the Shroud of Turin and sent it to me, saying this. There he is. Look at his nose. Fascinating. It's slightly crooked on the image of the Shroud of Turin. And she said, this gives me goosebumps and makes me so happy. Of course, when I saw him, he was grinning from ear to ear. So imagine his joyous face. Imagine it. Because that joy he has, that smile is for you. Not just these near death experiencers, not just Heidi. This Jewish girl he loves and is crazy about you like that. And that's why he did all he did. And that's why he foretold who and where and when and what and even why he would do what he would do in human history. Isaiah 53 continues. Surely our griefs. He is bearing our sorrows, he carried them. And we esteemed him beaten and struck by God and afflicted. And he is wounded, pierced, some translations say, for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities, the correction for our peace was upon him. And by his wounds he has healed us. All of us like sheep have wandered away, each man to his own way we've turned. And Yahweh has caused to light on him the Iniquity or the sin of us all. Why did he do it? Out of love.
- [69:04]
Heidi
For.
- [69:05]
John Burke
For you and me and all of us who have. Have turned away from God, you know, instead of seeking God's will in ways, you know, we say, my will be done. And as God said to Santosh, the wages of sin is death. You know, we've all gone our own way. It's the source of all humanity's troubles. But God foretold the day that he would pay for all of our wrongs so that a heart turning back to him could know that you are forgiven, you are right with God forever, so you don't walk in fear or shame or worried about being condemned. And even though we still do struggle, we do. You know, I think what God meant when he said that to Santosh is don't keep on rejecting me, keep on sinning, you know, and. And what we do is when we fall down, we reach up, we turn right back, and we grow, we keep walking so that we become more and more of who God intended. And that's in relationship, connected to God. But he didn't only pay for our sins. He overcame sin and death and the grave. He rose from the dead. That's what we celebrate around the world every Easter. And just think about it, because what it means is if you are right with God because of what Jesus did, you have nothing to fear, not even death. It's amazing. And this too was foretold in Isaiah 53. He says, he was oppressed and he was afflicted, and he did not open his mouth as a lamb to the slaughter he has brought, but he did not open his mouth. From prison and judgment, he was taken. And his generation, who shall discuss it, because he was cut off from the land of the living. If you will appoint his soul a sin offering, he will see his seed, his offspring, and he will lengthen his days, and the pleasure of Yahweh, and his hand will advance. After the toil of his soul. He shall see light, resurrection, and he shall be satisfied. The sins of many he bore. Again, the Dead Sea version, written before Jesus even lived. Why did he come? Because we all have strayed from God. But he paid for our sins, and he triumphed over death. So though we owe the wages of sin, and that's death, he's conquered death, and instead he gives us life. It's an amazing exchange. And all it takes is humility. All it takes is, like Santosh says, humbling ourselves to submit our lives back to God. In other words, instead of trying to play CEO of my own life. I give the right back to the rightful CEO of life. Okay, God, you show me how you want me to live. Live, you know. Karina grew up in Colombia. Pretty abusive background. Her mom was not really ever in the picture. At age 16, her dad and stepmom brought her to America and then left her with her grandmom while they moved to New York City without even telling her. So you can imagine she's here. She only speaks Spanish. She can't even speak English. She feels abandoned, unloved, and so ends up at age 18, getting pregnant. Felt forced to have an abortion when they said if she doesn't, she's going to have to live on the street. And all she wanted was to be accepted and loved, but kept looking in all the wrong places. And then in Covid, she died. And she finally found the love she always wanted. You know, interestingly, she had left the Catholic Church behind back in Colombia. She didn't even really believe in God yet. As people often tell me, John, you know, when you're dying. And as she rises up above her body and sees her husband's head there, she knew hell is real, heaven is real, God is real. And she starts crying out for mercy, God forgive me. And as she knew she was headed for this horrific darkness, she knew it was hell. God rescues her and listen to the experience she has.
- [73:36]
Karina
And I knew that was my home. I knew that was my home. So as I come down and I knew it was placed where I knew my home would be. But I don't have no memory. I know that was closer to the tree, the garden. I know that because I father said, do you want to go back? And the way he says.
- [73:57]
John Burke
Is this the first time he's spoken to you since you've come in?
- [74:01]
Karina
Yeah, this is the second time. Because the first time was when he was, you know, when I was in that darkness. And I knew he goes, and now.
- [74:08]
John Burke
You'Re kind of exploring heaven. You're flying. Floating.
- [74:12]
Karina
Yeah, floating. I felt like I was floating. I felt like I was having a tour of the whole area. And the only things that I could bring back are the little things that I'm sharing with you. You have no idea how many times I cry. Why don't you let me see what I saw? Why don't you let me? And he's only allowing me bits and pieces of it. Then to find out that it's written, it's even more. It's harder to be here, basically. So I. And that's why I'M digging in the Word. Oh, I saw that. Oh, I saw. You know what I'm saying?
- [74:46]
John Burke
You've come back and you've gotten into the Bible. You're seeing the things written that you had experienced.
- [74:51]
Karina
Yes, yes. And it's still happening. I have visions and it's still happening, but it's amazing. And this is not my first encounter that way. But as I am coming to what I knew where my home is. I know my back was to him, because I never saw him, but I felt the presence. And he says, garrina, he says, carina, Nobody calls me Karina. You can call Karina. I can't roll my arm. Karina, do you want to go back? And I said, I didn't think about it. I was just like. I said, yes, but I didn't say it. Hesitant. I said, yes. I was trying to speak the way he. I noticed now that the way he speaks is so gentle, right? So gentle. But they have an authority and a gentleness. But then I also answered with that gentleness. It's not the way we speak.
- [75:40]
John Burke
And he's speaking audibly, or is it?
- [75:43]
Karina
No, it was. It was thought to.
- [75:46]
John Burke
Thought.
- [75:46]
Karina
Yeah, thought. The thought. Yes. So the thought. The thought, like the. Just the. The. The.
- [75:52]
Swadik
Your being.
- [75:53]
Karina
So when he speaks, your whole being hears it. Like every. If it's in the flesh, you will hear all through your bones, cell, muscle, like, literally like that. Because that's how I feel when I hear him. But when you're there, you just know that you know. You know. You don't know. You know. And so when. When I said, when he asked me again, are you sure you want to go back? I said yes. And in a blink of an eye, I am on this. I fall. Like I felt the fall. And I. My forehead is buried on this glass. And I could see, because it was glass, it kind of clustered, but you could see. It's almost like you can see through, but you cannot see through. And as I try to look to my side, the whiteness, it's like bright. It's a bright, bright, bright, bright, bright. And as I had this brightness, as I'm trying to get up, the more I try to get up, I felt this power just pushing me down, pushing me down. And the more he pushed me down, the more I wanted to see. And I say he. Because I felt the presence of it.
- [76:58]
John Burke
It was like the weight of the glory of God.
- [77:01]
Karina
And I just. So where are you then? I didn't know where I was, but I knew that I was in a Place where a lot of power was being given and released.
- [77:13]
John Burke
And you see glass floor all over.
- [77:17]
Karina
There's no walls. There's the only.
- [77:19]
John Burke
And how far did it go?
- [77:21]
Karina
There's nothing. There's eternity. There's nothing that I could sense and feel or no trees, no flowers.
- [77:28]
John Burke
What did it look like?
- [77:29]
Karina
It was clyster. It was clyster. It looked like a. And it is so true because I even had this knowledge there that looked like a sea without waves and it was frozen.
- [77:40]
John Burke
So a sea glass?
- [77:42]
Karina
Yes, yes, it was literally.
- [77:43]
John Burke
You didn't know that was in the body.
- [77:45]
Karina
Oh, I'm sorry.
- [77:46]
John Burke
Okay, sorry.
- [77:53]
Karina
It's hard because at this moment, that's when I realized that what I felt coming towards me was this white rope like this. It was just flowing. I could see sandals and toes, but I did not see holes in the toes or any in the nail on the feet because the, the. The rope was just like flowing like the way it was flowing. And he's coming. And the closer he got, the more I want to see, but it was harder for me to see cuz I could feel the. The forehead on there. And I just could have barely see. And I could see this beard, very trim. It's not long, very trim, white. And I could see from the. The back, the hair was like all the way to the back. I don't know how long it was because it was back and it was curly, wavy, not so tight. And it's all white. And he had a golden sash. And I knew there was a purple sash. Like I had the knowledge. And what I only could see is, was how it was laid onto the belt. So this was purple. And so.
- [79:04]
John Burke
And who was this?
- [79:05]
Karina
I knew. I knew it was the Lord, Yeshua. I knew that it was Jesus. And I knew and I knew he was all. He was my Savior. I knew he. I belonged to him. I knew that I belonged to him. Like he was my whole being.
- [79:23]
John Burke
And he was the same as this voice.
- [79:26]
Karina
Yeah, the voice is different, yet the same. So I had the Father speaking me and I knew there was a little difference, but not all difference with him. As I come, when he comes and asks me, do you want to go back? And he said it with the same gentleness, the same love. He just felt sad for me because I said yes. And I felt it in my being. And I. I still could not get up. And immediately in the block, I know that he extended his hand, but I don't remember if he hugged me or anything like that. He's standing, his hands In a blink of an eye, I'm going back into the area where I'm at. My body's still there. When I was there, the immediate was, wow, I'm dead. And I didn't take my apple watch with me. And then I look up my house. I didn't take everything. The whole house, the big house. I didn't take nothing. And so I immediately realized we didn't take anything. And then in my thought process was, is it going to hurt to go back? Because I knew my body was so.
- [80:34]
John Burke
Sick and is Jesus with you or who's with you?
- [80:37]
Karina
So at that moment, people ask me, so how do you know it was Jesus? I knew it was him. Like it was within me, like his presence with me.
- [80:46]
John Burke
You?
- [80:46]
Karina
Yes. Because I asked him, is it going to hurt to go back? And he said, it's not going to feel the same. Because when I left was peaceful. Remember that moment. But when I wanted to go back, as I level myself next to go on the top of my husband's head, I tried to get in. And I felt like I was putting. The best way I can say is, like, go back to Cinderella and everybody's trying to put on that shoe. And that's exactly how it felt. No. And then I went like that, grabbed my husband. I said, oh, my God, Hell. That's the first thing I said. Hell is real. Heaven is real. God is real. Jesus is real. Before I went to the seal glass, this is when I said, can I share all this? And he said, yes, but people are going to think you're crazy. And I said, I don't care. I need to let everybody know, Father, I'll be back with many. I said, I'll promise you that. That was my promise. And I turn around, and as I turn around, he says, you're awesome. And that stuck with me. And I go, what? What? He speaks like this. And I just smiled.
- [81:48]
John Burke
And he said, God, Jesus said to you, God the Father?
- [81:51]
Karina
Yes, God the father said, you're awesome.
- [81:53]
John Burke
You're awesome. What a beautiful thing. Because you had spent your whole life trying to get people to tell you, you're awesome. You're awesome. Isn't that wild? Can you imagine that? That's God's heart toward you, not just Karina. Karina had lived a life of rebellion against God. But all it took was her turning back to God for forgiveness. And he saw her heart. He saw her heart wanting to tell everybody once she understood the character and the heart of the Father for her. And it's his heart for you. That you're awesome to him, so why wouldn't you seek him? You know, Karina then finds herself in this place that revelation describes. In front of the throne was a shiny sea of glass, sparkling like crystal. And she discovered what God is really like. And she came back on a mission to tell everyone. She wants to bring everyone back there with her. And in this fascinating, I mean, all across the globe. And I've just shown you what four or five people, 70 that I've interviewed, that you can read about and imagine the God of Heaven testifying that Jesus is in fact risen, that he is one with the Father, that He gives us his spirit to live with us. For all who want God to lead and guide their life, it's incredibly good news. Now, before we wrap up, you know, some of you may be thinking, well, wait a second, what about the question of Krishna or Allah or Buddha or other gods? Do Indies ever report seeing them? Well, interestingly, not really. In Imagine the God of Heaven, I do report on two Hindus who say that in their near death experience, one of them said they met the goddess Durga Ma, the other the goddess Kali, which were the goddesses they worshiped. But Kali, for instance, is always described as a woman, blue or black, with forearms and a tongue hanging out. Durga is always described as a beautiful woman with eight to ten arms and weapons in them, riding a tiger. That's not actually who they report experiencing. So both of them report experiencing this God who is brilliant, light beyond what's imaginable, love, personal, intimate. And they just came back and just interpreted it as their God. So that's what you see more of. And what the important thing to realize is God wants to be known for who he really is. Because that's what love requires. And love is what God's all about. You know, like God told Santosh, what he cares most about is relationship. How honest, how sincere you'll be with him every day of the year. You don't need to hide anything from Him. No one cares more about you or loves you more. And he wants you to be willing to listen to those promptings that he puts into your thoughts, into your mind that guide you to better love and serve your fellow human. That's what it's all about. So let me ask you, are you seeking to know God for who he truly is? If you seek with all your heart, you'll find. Do you read the Bible? I mean, start with the Gospel, start reading about Jesus, what he, what he taught and what he did. I've shown you reasons to believe that you can trust that God really was behind the writing of the Scriptures. How else could he have pulled off in history? You know what? I just showed you and I'd encourage you. You don't have to have a physical copy. I read the Bible on this. You can download the YouVersion Bible in the Bible app and then get the NLT, the New Living Translation, or the NIV, the New International Version. Those are kind of modern English, but very good equivalents to the original Greek and Hebrew. And get to know God, start learning what he's revealed through the Scriptures. But talk over everything with him. That's what prayer is. It's just talking to God and trust him more and more because nobody loves you more. And then one day, just like Karina, you too will hear him say, you're awesome. Well done. Enter into my kingdom. Welcome home. Well, I hope you've enjoyed these 10 podcasts. Thanks today for letting me geek out a little bit and show you all this evidence. It is what convinced me. I hope it's helped you in your faith again. Subscribe this is going to be the last podcast episode 10 in season one, but I plan on doing a season two in the fall. If you subscribe and turn on notifications, you know, you should get, you know, a notification when we do that. We're going to be putting out some other content in between. Not sure what yet. But again, thanks for sharing it and you know, hitting the like and the bell and, and all that. And thanks for all your encouraging comments as well. Well, until next time, be blessed.