← Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Mystical Beauty of Heaven Revealed by Near Death Experiences
01:22:59
In this episode, John Burke uncovers the breathtaking beauty of Heaven as described in near death experiences (NDEs). Explore vivid accounts of awe-inspiring landscapes, radiant colors, and peaceful realms beyond imagination. What do these...
Loading summary
Transcript110 lines
- [00:00]
John Burke
Today we're going to be talking about some pretty wild sci fi like things about the beauty of nature in heaven. So I hope you'll stick to the end. Today I want to take you on an imaginative journey. I want you to imagine the day that you step from this life into real life. Imagine the beauty and the wonders of this place, this place called heaven. Today we're going to explore near death experiences and the Bible and what it has to say about the life to come and its beauty. I'm John Burke and this is the Imagine Heaven podcast.
- [00:38]
Don Piper
Things were more beautiful than I could ever imagine. It was past anything that I would believe that it would be like.
- [00:44]
Dr. Mary Neal
The colors were so alive that the most beautiful day on earth is just a reflection of those colors.
- [00:52]
Dale Black
The greens were greener, the yellows, the golds, the blues, everything reminded me. It reminded me that Earth is a reflection of heaven. But heaven is perfection.
- [01:06]
John Burke
So one of the commonalities of near death experiences is they experience beauty in new dimensions of time and space. Flowers, trees, mountains, forests in colors more vibrant than we can imagine. And they are not limited in their experience of beauty like we are here.
- [01:25]
Jim Woodford
About 52% of people having a near death experience describe beauty in this heavenly realm that is beyond anything on earth. Things that are absolutely spectacular.
- [01:36]
Don Piper
It seemed like everything there was glad I was there. The trees were glad I was there, the flowers were glad I was there, the water was glad I was there. Everything was alive, there was nothing dead. And everything was intelligent.
- [01:47]
Brad Burroughs
Everything was far more intense. The colors, the aromas, the flowers were such that I felt that I could not only see them, but I understood them.
- [01:57]
Dale Black
Gorgeous, beautiful, all of the adjectives, but it's beyond words.
- [02:05]
John Burke
You know, after 35 years and studying probably close to 1,500 cases of near death experience where people come back to tell of a life more real and more beautiful than this one. I wrote a book called Imagine Heaven, another book called Imagine the God of Heaven. And in them I explore over 40 commonalities of what people say when they have a near death experience all around the world. And I show how this is what the Bible has been explaining of this exhilarating future that's to come. You know, in this podcast, what I hope to do is go into each of those 40 plus commonalities and kind of take a deep dive and show you not only what I've learned in my research and let you hear from the hundreds of hours of video interviews that I have, that I've written my books off of, let you hear some of their stories, though you can get their fuller story in the books where I've written it. But I also am hoping to share with you not just my kind of skeptical, analytical engineering side that broke down all these near death experiences, but also I was a pastor for over 30 years, and I would love to share with you just some of my pastoral insights, not only studying the Bible, but also just helping people live their best life. And so I'm hoping this podcast will be kind of like if you and I had a chance to sit down across a table at a coffee shop and you asked me about a particular topic, and I just had a chance to share with you, you know, what I've learned and what I know in hopes that it'll help you as much as it's helped me in my own spiritual life and growth. Today we're going to be talking about the beauty of nature in heaven. Though a lot of it is very earthlike, some things are very surpr. So I hope you'll stick to the end. And I also want to remind you that these people that you're hearing from today are not crazy people. They're surgeons, two commercial airline pilots, CEOs, pastors. I mean, people who have nothing to gain making up these wild stories of having died and experienced this and come back. And yet they say it's the most real thing that happened. The reason I'm so excited to talk about this is because, personally, I love nature. You know, being out in nature is kind of how I connect with God. We live in Austin in the hill country, and, you know, there are lakes and rivers and it's just beautiful. And I love to get out on my mountain bike and I ride out to this cliff overlooking the river down far down below and the hills all around. And there's just something about the magnitude of nature and the beauty of nature that just draws my. My eyes upward. My little granddaughter Sophia loves to come over. She loves the fall. And in the fall, we go hiking in the canyon not far from here, and we always collect colorful leaves, you know, yellows and reds and greens and oranges, and we put them all together in this beautiful bouquet, and we just kind of admire together God's diverse creativity. Every little leaf. Unique. And every tree and every sunset and every sunrise. And for me, it just points me toward the Creator. Maybe it does for you as well. But one thing I hope you'll understand today is that all of the beauty of earth, think of the most beautiful things you've seen, the most wonderful places you've been And I've seen a lot. I've been to 30 different countries. I've been to what people consider some of the most beautiful places and some of the worst places on Earth. But I will tell you, Earth is only a shadow of what God has in store for us. The greatest beauty doesn't even compare. So I'm excited to share some of that with you. I think you'll see that God is incredibly beautiful and creative. You know Paul, who as I talked about in an earlier episode, probably had a near death experience and he talks about seeing heaven. And he says this in First Corinthians 2, verse 9, he says, no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him. But it was to us that God revealed these things by his spirit. In other words, it's going to be better than you can imagine, but you ought to stretch your imagination. And God has revealed things by His Spirit that we can know and consider so that we live for what's going to last. We live for what matters most. Most of us maybe have never considered it. But all the things we love about this life, about this earth, is what God has created. And it's a messed up version. So why wouldn't the life to come be even more beautiful, be even better? And you know, God even hints at that in the Bible. He has Moses build a tabernacle according to a pattern. He shows him of a building in heaven. And then in the book of Hebrews, chapter 8, verse 5, it says they serve in a sanctuary. Talking about the priests in this tabernacle, they serve in a sanctuary. That's a copy and a shadow of what is in heaven. Well, just imagine, what if all of Earth's nature is just a copy, just a shadow of something even better that we're going to experience endlessly in heaven. I want you to imagine that today as we go on this journey. And here's why I think that's so important for your life today. You know, Colossians 3:1 says, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God's right hand. Think about the things of heaven, not the things of earth. For you died to this life and your real life is hidden with Christ in God. In other words, what are you living for, right? Are you living for a temporary world or are you living for a permanent world? Are you looking for a city and a house and a home that you can't keep or something that you can keep? You know, don't work for things that won't last. So many of us, you know, we live for retirement, right? We live for that time when we can just not work anymore and golf or play pickleball or, you know, go, you know, on these shopping sprees or go on vacations. And, you know, we save for that and we sacrifice for that. We live because we can picture retirement, but that doesn't last. It's temporary. And the truth is, retirement can't be the hope of humanity because the vast majority of humanity can't retire. I've seen it. They can't or they couldn't eat, so that can't be the hope of humanity. But what if instead of retirement, we set our sights on living for and saving for and planning and preparing for something that really is going to last? And I think what you're going to imagine today is going to help you do just that. And what you're going to see is you're not going to miss a thing. In fact, where you're really going to be missing stuff is if this is all there is. So let's imagine that day exploring the beauty and the wonders of heaven experiences in new dimensions. As you hear from those I've interviewed who have, imagine the day that maybe you feared most, you know, the. The day you die. But what if instead it's actually the greatest day ever? You step from life into more life. You leave this temporal, temporary body, and you see your body there. And then you travel and you travel to a place of exquisite beauty. And even as you arrive there, you start to realize, wow, there are new modes of travel, of transportation that I can use to explore the wonders of this beautiful place. Listen as don Piper and Dr. Mary Neal describe some of the new modes of travel to explore the wonders of heaven. You know, Don Piper was a pastor who was crossing a very narrow bridge on a rainy day when an 18 wheeler came flying through, got out of control, ran over the top of his car. EMS pronounced him dead. Ninety minutes later, the jaws of life came and cut his body out. And only then did he revive. To talk about what you're going to hear, Dr. Mary Neal was kayaking on a river when she went over a waterfall. Her kayak got pinned in about 10, about 10ft underwater for 30 minutes. She has eyewitnesses there who saw it. She was dead 30 minutes. And yet listen to the wonders and the beauty and the new modes of travel she experienced. What's travel like in heaven? You know, what did you experience?
- [11:25]
Ian McCormick
I probably walked, but I feel like I moved in some cases without walking. I don't even feel like you have to. I think if you want to be over there, you can be over there. I think it's that way.
- [11:38]
John Burke
That's a thought.
- [11:39]
Ian McCormick
Yeah. Just because that's where you want to be. So I don't know that movement there is necessarily like it is here. I think we still have our arms and legs and I think we are the way that God made us. But I don't know that travel or movement or anything is necessarily like this. I did sense that when the crowd parted and I'm going through and going through the gates that I was moving. I don't really specifically remember walking. I may have, but I wasn't paying attention to that. I was paying attention to my goal, which was high and lifted up. I wanted to go up there and fall at his feet and tell him, thank you for letting me come. So I did move. I would say movement in heaven is not like it is here.
- [12:20]
Brad Burroughs
We weren't physically walking, but I would agree that there are different types of travel because we were moving down this pathway. Not locomoting, but gliding, I suppose. But as we were going down the pathway, I was still able to hear the guys on the riverbank and see them. And one of the guys who at the time was only 18, he's a very young man, a very dear friend of ours, he kept calling to me to come back and take a breath. And I would look back and he looked so vulnerable and so devastated that I would say, just a minute, I'll be right back. And the people who were taking me were very patient and understanding, and I would almost immediately be back in my body and I would take a breath.
- [13:16]
John Burke
Like by thought you were just there, right.
- [13:19]
Brad Burroughs
And then I would rejoin them.
- [13:21]
John Burke
You know, many near death experiencers say the same thing, that as you explore the wonders of nature, you can walk just like we normally walk. But many say they it was more like gliding. Others say I was floating or even flying up above the countryside. Some say they could move and travel with just a thought. And imagine when distance is not an issue, maybe we will explore the universe that, you know, we only could look at through telescopes here on Earth. Well, many near death experiencers say when they first come into the kingdom of heaven, they enter a place that people in heaven call paradise. It's fascinating because Jesus talks about paradise. If you recall when he was hanging on the cross, he was hanging between two criminals, and one mocked him and tried to get him to do his will, and the other humbled himself. And look at what it says. The first criminal says, so you're the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving yourself and us too, while you're at it. And notice no response. You know, it's a good note. God. God doesn't. He doesn't feel the need to respond to our demands. But a humble heart of trust, man, that gets his attention. The other criminal protested, don't you fear God even when you have been sentenced to die? We deserve to die for our crimes, but this man hasn't done anything wrong. Then he said, jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied, I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise. Wow, I just gotta pause. Do you see the heart of God? One guy, you know, mocking him, demanding, prove yourself. Nothing but another just simply, I deserve this, but will you remember me? That's all it took. You'll be with me in paradise. That is the heart of God. You know, I love what one of my favorite authors, C.S. lewis, says. He says God will let anyone into heaven who can possibly stand it. In other words, if you can possibly stand letting God be God and not you being God, you know, and you turn your heart to him, man, he just is. Arms wide open. Now, where is Paradise? Well, it turns out to probably be the countryside outside the Holy City of God. And multiple nd ears told me this. One nd ear that I wrote about in Imagine Heaven, Ed said that an angel explained this to him, that the city you see inside is New Jerusalem. It's Heaven's heart. The Father and the Lord Jesus are inside on their thrones. The surrounding land is called Paradise. Now, scripture doesn't talk much about paradise, but another angel told an nd ear that it's kind of the port of entry. It's where most people. It's actually where these tunnels that people travel through, these portals tend to open up and deposit people there in this place called Paradise. It's like the port of entry to heaven. And the angel explained this. He said the large outer bounds, that could be called suburbs because they're outside of the city walls. New arrivals go to this place first because they must learn, we must learn that the spirit of God controls everything. In the city of God. Paradise looks very much like the earth, so that the transition as you learn the next lessons will not be too heavy, too strong. And so there are trees and birds and pets and very high mountains and lakes. Paradise is where the topography is very much like Earth. You know, interestingly, the Bible describes the nature of heaven very Much like Earth. John, you know, Jesus, youngest disciple, when he grew older, was arrested and imprisoned on an island, the island of Patmos, there in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. He said that Jesus, the risen Jesus, appeared to him and took him to heaven. And that's when he wrote the book of Revelation. But listen to all the earth, like nature, that he refers to in the book of Revelation that he saw in heaven. John says, after this, I looked, and people from every nation, tribe, people and language were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. So I guess they're palm trees in heaven. He will lead them to springs of life giving water. So there's springs in heaven. He took me in the spirit to a great high mountain. So there are high mountains in heaven. He showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, their cities it shown with the glory of God. Then the angel showed me a river with the water of life clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and the lamb. So they're rivers flowing. Others say they're waterfalls. He said it flowed down the center of the main street. So they're streets, they're boulevards. On each side of the river grew a tree of life. There are trees in heaven bearing 12 crops of fruit. There's fruit. You see all this earth like beauty that John describes? Near death experiencers also talk about the same things, but they also talk about otherworldly beauty, like things that I used to hear. And I used to think that just sounds cheesy and gaudy. Streets of gold and, you know, this golden city and pearl gates and I used to, you know, I used to picture a bad, cheesy 80s televangelist set, you know, just like, yeah, I hope not. But the more near death experiencers I interviewed, the more I heard them try to describe this, I realized, oh, no, no, John was trying to describe something otherworldly in beauty. And you'll see that as we go along. True beauty of all kinds that will astound you. Listen, as Jim Woodford describes arriving in paradise. Now, Jim was a commercial airline pilot, an agnostic most all his life. He said he hadn't prayed a day in his life. But his wife was a believer in Jesus and praying for him. Jim was a very wealthy man. He got Guillain Barre and he ends up taking too many opioids and has an overdose in his truck. And he is dying, and he knows he's dying. And just like the criminal on the cross, last minute he realizes how wrong he was and he cries out, God forgive me. And interestingly, first he sees where he was headed. He sees the reality of hell. And then three angels rescue him. And listen to how they describe this paradise outside the city walls that they took him to.
- [20:22]
Jim Woodford
And John, I'm looking down on the most incredibly beautiful green grass you could ever imagine. Every blade perfectly formed and light coming from every blade of grass. Now I don't want that to sound too Las Vegasy. It was just a gentle light. And as I shifted my weight, the ripple, the grass rippled underneath my feet with light. And then the mist began to clear. And I look up and I'm facing slightly to the right. And the most magnificent, beauteous feels. Flowers and colors that don't even have names on earth. All lit by this glow from out of everything. The rocks, the trees, the flowers themselves. And a beautiful sky. But a sky. And being a pilot, the first thing I did was try to orient myself by looking for the sun. There was no sun in the sky, but it was this beautiful cerulean blue and like on the far horizon, a sunset, but no sun.
- [21:28]
John Burke
And did you know that in the Bible it talks about how there's no sun or moon in heaven? The glory of God? No.
- [21:36]
Jim Woodford
Had no clue. And then the tall angel came forward and said, would you walk with us? And I turn and with the tall guardian behind and the guardian on either side, we walk down this beautiful 10 to 12 foot wide path lined with flowers that of colors that I'd never seen. And I've been in 52 countries and in heaven color is sound and sound is color. And it all goes off to the horizon that was brightly lit because that's the throne room of God. I think what happens is God, God knows us each so intimately. He tailors our experience to the life we had on Earth. And so for me it was. The next thing that happened was they, they wanted me to see the holy city. And so he asked me to touch his cloak. And we rise up and I thought I was looking at a large reflecting pool, but it opened up and I'm looking down on the holy city. And all the time they're telling me things and before I can even ask a question, they're answering me. I don't want to describe it as telepathy. It was as though they were in my mind and I was in theirs and we were one and it was so beautiful. And so they gave me an aerial view of heaven, I suppose because I was a pilot and you know, I've gone into holding patterns over cities for half an hour. You get a good chance to look at it. And so I'm looking at the halls of knowledge, the halls of learning, the halls of music, but one building just stunned me. It was so beautiful. The buildings are very, very magnificent and not unlike the Parthenon, but they're hewn from blocks of light, not stone.
- [23:22]
John Burke
And this is inside the city.
- [23:24]
Jim Woodford
This is inside the walls.
- [23:24]
John Burke
Walls? Are you seeing a walled city?
- [23:26]
Jim Woodford
Yeah, and there's walls. And by the way, and I'm no theologian, and I'm sure people could argue this point with me, paradise is referred to in heaven as outside the gates of heaven. The beautiful countryside outside the walls of the city. Outside the walls, yeah. And heaven is God's home.
- [23:48]
John Burke
So is this the new Jerusalem?
- [23:50]
Jim Woodford
I don't know. I wish I did, but I'm sure theologians would argue with me, but that's. I'm only telling you what I saw. But incredible beauty. I remember it and it becomes so vivid, it overwhelms me.
- [24:06]
John Burke
Imagine beauty that overwhelms your emotions, you know, that's what he said. Just, just even thinking about it again, it brings up. It's so beautiful, it just overwhelms the emotions. And many near death experiencers said the same. But notice it's a lot of the same beauty of earth and yet experienced in new dimensions. Right. You know, they say there's a life to all of this nature beyond the life we experience here. Sound has color and color has sound. The senses of experience are blended and they experience, some said, imagine a sense where you experience nature growing, like connected to it, growing. Dr. Neal, that you heard earlier, the Spine Surgeon and Dean Braxton both described it as there was an intelligence to all of nature. Dr. Neal said, I understood it, but paradise is very earth like. There's a feeling of familiarity. It's a homecoming, you know, and that's what you got to realize. It's home. And that's what people commonly say. Ian McCormick, who died of four box jellyfish stings, described paradise. This way. He said, through the center of the meadows I could see a crystal clear stream winding its way across the landscape with trees on either bank. To my right were mountains in the distance and the sky above was blue and clear. To my left were rolling green hills and flowers which were radiating beautiful colors. Paradise. I knew I belonged here. And that's what so many say. They say I belonged here. This is home. This is what I've always wanted. Gary Wood and so many other near death experiencers talk about being mesmerized by the grass. Jim talked about the grass. If you Noticed. I don't know why, but so many of them just describe the grass. This one banker Marv Besteman, who was a golfer, said, you know, I've been to the masters of the most exquisite golf courses on earth and nothing can compare to that grass. Gary Wood said, I began walking on the green lush carpet of grass that covered the hillside. Looking down, I noticed that the grass came all the way through my feet, that there were no indentions where I just walked. From the hill I viewed the outer portion of a magnificent city. So there's this beauty outside the city of God called paradise. And then there's even more beauty on the inside of the city. And I've literally heard hundreds of near death experiencers describe what Jesus promised to the thief on the cross today. You'll be with me in paradise. And the topography of it is varied, just like earth. In fact. Brad Burroughs, the blind man that I interviewed, you heard some of his story in episode two he described to me, and I think I had it in episode two, going up a very steep hill up to the same city walls that you're hearing others describe today. Dale Black, another commercial airline pilot, God gave him a flyover of the same holy city of God, just like he gave Jim, the other commercial airline pilot. It's just like Jim said. He said, I think God loves to delight us. He tailors the experience of heaven as we come in to what would most delight us. So this other commercial airline pilot, Dale Black, gets the same flyover of paradise, but then he also sees the beauty inside the city of God. Listen to how these two pilots descriptions of the beauty both overlaps, but also the unique perspective of this extra dimensional experience. So you could see not just a light in the middle of this darkness, but there was a city as well.
- [28:15]
Dale Black
Yeah, yeah. Because I was moving toward it and I got closer and closer to it and as I got closer to it I began to this pilot talk here. And maybe God did this for me because I've flown over the biggest cities in the world and I remember what it's like to come into Paris at night or Moscow or you name it, any city that you can name. I probably flown in there that day or night and nothing was like heaven City was nothing like that.
- [28:50]
John Burke
Where is this heavenly city that you're flying, you're flying as your own person into? Is that what you're saying?
- [28:57]
Dale Black
Yeah, I'm going to the city of gold, which was obviously heaven. And holy holiness prevailed everywhere. I didn't know what that word meant before this experience. I didn't even know what holiness was, but I knew that this was holy and this holiness prevailed here. And I knew this was where God reigned. I knew I was coming into heaven. Now I'm flying like an airplane coming in, slowing down, descending, slowing down, descending, and I get this incredible airborne view. A descending, slowing down, airborne view of the City of Gold. And it's city. It's a city that's walled. And to give eye candy to your viewers, the greens were greener. The yellows, the golds, the blues, everything reminded me that Earth is a reflection of heaven, but heaven is perfection. Earth is close to that in the natural realm, but it's also a fallen world.
- [30:11]
John Burke
Are you seeing Earth like things or what did you see?
- [30:15]
Dale Black
Absolutely Earth like things in every regard. For some reason, the grass took the wind out of my lungs. I just looked at the grass and I couldn't believe was wild grass, but it looked manicured, like velvet, rich, thick, nothing out of place. Not a blade. But nobody was trimming it. No one had trimmed it. No one had to garden it. It was perfect grass. And I don't know why that stuck with me. But, yeah, I was changed by that. The trees, there's life in the trees. And the flowers, there's life. It doesn't give it justice.
- [31:00]
John Burke
So there are flowers, there are trees, there's grass. But it's the same, but different.
- [31:08]
Dale Black
It's the same on Earth. I think if you were to look at a color chart and say, okay, this is red, and then, okay, this turns to blue. Oh, this is yellow. Okay, you look at a color chart and you take that same chart and you say, okay, in heaven, let's look at red. Oh, there's two, three thousand shades of red. And I can see them all completely different, you know?
- [31:35]
John Burke
Yeah.
- [31:35]
Dale Black
And then.
- [31:36]
John Burke
So you're experiencing the same thing, but in a much richer, deeper experience.
- [31:41]
Dale Black
And then you try to describe music that way.
- [31:44]
John Burke
What about, like, mountains or streams or. Do you see any of that?
- [31:49]
Dale Black
Yes. Yeah. Over the city were majestic mountains that were as gorgeous as any that could be ever seen. However, they did not look that different than Earth. I wasn't disappointed by that. I'm not saying that I noticed snow, so think about that snow. What does that mean? Atmosphere, temperature, snow. What's that all about? I noticed flying birds later. What does that mean? These are the kind of questions I ask. Okay? If a bird is to fly, it can't be a vacuum. I'm hearing music. What does that mean? Music can't transfer in a vacuum. It has to be in an atmosphere. There's atmosphere here in heaven. Oh, what does that mean?
- [32:34]
John Burke
And you're flying, but you don't have wings, right?
- [32:37]
Dale Black
I'm floating is what I would call it. I'm floating and coming in, descending. And finally I come down and touch ground level for a while. And I'm hovering between 40ft ish and down. But I recognize later, oh, there was gravity there. There is gravity. There is atmosphere, there's water. There are animals. Oh, yeah. Oh, see, it all makes sense now.
- [33:04]
John Burke
And what did the wall look like?
- [33:06]
Dale Black
The wall was humongous. It's huge. And I was able to see over it earlier as I.
- [33:12]
John Burke
When you were flying?
- [33:12]
Dale Black
Yeah, when I was coming in. So I was able to see over it and got a pretty nice glimpse of it.
- [33:17]
John Burke
Well, tell us, what was it? What did you see?
- [33:19]
Dale Black
Well, are you asking about the wall.
- [33:23]
John Burke
Or inside the city?
- [33:25]
Dale Black
Okay. I could see the townships, as I called them, homes that people lived in. Homes that were likely to be created for the people of heaven. Interestingly enough, they struck me by not so much the size as the architecture. I know nothing about architecture at all. I still don't. But I recognize that there was something divine about the architecture of the buildings. There were small, what we would call like condos here. There were single family residences that we call here. There were huge palaces. And I could see that. But.
- [34:12]
John Burke
And this is all inside the wall.
- [34:14]
Ian McCormick
On the other side of the wall.
- [34:15]
Dale Black
I saw none of this.
- [34:16]
John Burke
And how big is this city? I mean, can you tell?
- [34:19]
Dale Black
I could not tell, other than it was beyond the horizon, both directions. So like I mentioned to you before, and I've had the opportunity to fly into those large cities in the earth, big cities, as you know, this is bigger than that. And not only that, but there's countryside inside. So it's gorgeous, beautiful, all of the adjectives times a thousand.
- [34:47]
John Burke
Wow. I mean, isn't that amazing? Two commercial airline pilots, they didn't know each other. I interviewed them separately. And yet Dale and Jim are describing the same mesmerizingly beautiful place, paradise outside the city of God, where there are lush valleys and mountains and streams. People saw, you know, giant waterfalls. Dale said even snow or what appeared to be snow high up on the mountains. And they noticed atmosphere and temperature. In fact, Brad Burroughs, the blind man that I was telling you about, I interviewed, said this. I was walking up this field. It seemed as if I was so exhilarated, so unbelievably renewed that I didn't want to leave. I wanted to stay forever. Where I was, there's no way I could describe the peace and tranquility. The weather was absolutely perfect in terms of temperature and humidity. It was so fresh, so unbelievably fresh that mountain air on Earth could not even come close. It's fascinating because a blind person would have senses trained to notice non visual things like that most. Right. And he describes them in depth. He also though described the countryside, including palm trees that he saw and the light coming out of everything. And he walks up to the same city wall with the gate, you know, going through. Now, inside the holy city, Jim and Dale described the same things. This walled city, bigger than any city on earth, but gorgeous inside. And these gorgeous buildings of Dale said, divine architecture. He said the architecture alone was just mesmerizingly beautiful. Jim said. And interestingly, Dr. Mary Neal said that they were made out of what looked like Roman blocks of stone, but constructed of light. Mary said, constructed of love. But remember, light and love are one because it's the glory of God. I know that sounds bizarre, but it also explains why they talk about it's solid, but it's also transparent. And this is exactly what Revelation 21 talks about. John says the city's length and width and height were each 1400 miles. And then he, the angel, measured the walls and found them to be 216ft thick. And they were also 200ft tall. According to the human standard used by the angel, the wall was made of Jasper and the city was pure gold, as clear as glass. Well, in our world it can't be both. And yet near death experiencers consistently describe it the same way. Even Santosh, this Hindu manufacturing engineer that I think you heard from in one of the earlier episodes when I interviewed him, he describes the same huge walled city and he longed to go inside. And he counted 12 gates. It's just exactly what John described in Revelation 21. And he said, inside gorgeous grounds. And these buildings, he said, made of otherworldly building materials. He's a manufacturing engineer, so he would notice that. Right. But notice what they say. It's exponentially more vivid and colorful and mesmerizing and alive. And there's a connectivity of all of it that you experience it in ways you never have on Earth. There's all kinds of recognizable beauty in the city as well. From those I've talked to. There are parks, their gardens, their waterfalls and boulevards, and all these different various spectacular buildings and amphitheaters. As Jim said, he's asking about buildings. There's the halls of Learning, there's the halls of music where others have told me exquisite other dimensional music is being composed. They're the halls of knowledge. And all that beauty, like Dale said, you know, is like what you would imagine on earth times a thousand. You know, you think about it. Humans are so diverse in how we experience beauty. Some love the mountains, others love beautiful architecture and art. They love a beautiful, quaint cityscape. You know, others would love to be in exquisite gardens with water features. Well, what about forests? What about forests and trees and, you know, fall colors? You know, I used to live in Chicago and we would drive through the suburbs of Chicago all the way up to Wisconsin and up by the lake, Lake Geneva, and just the colors with the sun shining on it in the afternoon of yellows and oranges and bright reds and it was spectacular. Is any of that in heaven? Well, other near death experiencers do describe forests of trees of many species they knew on earth, but some they couldn't even identify. And others even describe, you know, colors like the fall colors of New England. Some of these trees are just enormous, like higher than the redwoods that, you know, I saw in California. Dr. Richard Eby was a medical doctor who had a near death experience when he fell off a two story balcony straight onto his head. Here's what he said he experienced in this beautiful valley. My gaze riveted the exquisite valley in which I found myself. Forests of symmetrical trees, unlike anything on earth covered the foothills on each side. I could see each branch and leaf. Not a brown spot or dead leaf in the forest. No death there, he said includes the vegetation. They resembled somewhat the tall arborvitae cedars of North America, but I could not identify them. The valley floor was gorgeous stately grasses, each blade perfect and erect. And they were interspersed with ultra white four petaled flowers on stems two feet tall with a touch of gold. At the centers so near death experiencers describe these forests of beauty, fall colors like New England and the trees themselves. Some of them are mystically intriguing. Not just like the trees of Earth, you know, Dean and Karina both describe almost magical like trees. Dean Braxton was a juvenile court supervisor who ended up in the hospital from severe pancreatitis that turned septic. He actually has hospital records that he had no heartbeat and thus no brainwave for an hour and 45 minutes. Karina Martinez from Colombia, who I interviewed had a very rough upbringing of abuse and abandonment. She was seeking love, you know, in all the wrong ways. And then in Covid she dies and she realizes God is real and like the Thief on the cross. She too cries out to God to help her and for forgiveness. And she too, as well as Dean, see the beauty of heaven and these spectacular trees they talk about. Listen.
- [42:29]
Don Piper
Once I moved toward the light, I came into the light, and like I said earlier, it was like all of a sudden I was entered into this realm where everything was right, there was nothing wrong, and it was past peace. That's the best way for me to describe it. I first came in. I came in and there was a force before me. And the best way would be like. And it wasn't this way, but this is the best way I can do. It's like you're coming off of the ocean and you come on a beach, and before you is all these trees. Like if you hit an island or something like that. That's what it seemed like to me. But in this case, it wasn't a beach. It was grass. Before I came in on grass, there was flowers around, there were animals around, and there was this forest before me. And I knew that I wanted to be where Jesus was. That was my heart desire to be. Be where Jesus was. And I knew I had to go through that forest to get on the other side to where he was. And so I started moving in that direction. And it wasn't like I was walking like you normally walk like this. It's almost like I was gliding, like on a people mover that you have in the airport or something like that, you know. And I remember going up to the trees and then the trees just started opening up for me. And there was a pathway that was laid before me, and I just went on that pathway. And as I went through the forest, it seemed like everything in the forest was saying to me, he's going to see the king. He's going to see the king. And when I got on the other side of the forest, that's when I saw Jesus Christ. The forest is not similar. It's different kind of in the way our forest is. I remember going through West Virginia during the fall season and seeing the beautiful hills covered with, you know, the fall leaves. And all I could think of, this is like heaven, but nothing's falling apart. Because those colors of the trees, you know how they change and everything, that's their color. So it's always that way. So in saying that to you, it's hard to really describe it to the fullness of what I experienced due to the fact that I'm leaving out a whole lot because we just don't have it on the planet. When I'm describing things, and I've heard people describe it this way. They'll use the word like, it's like this. Even if you get the Bible and you read how John describes in Revelation, he didn't say, this is what it is. He says, it's like this. And then he's saying that's the closest we can come to describing what it's like there.
- [44:44]
John Burke
You're kind of exploring heaven. You're flying. Floating.
- [44:48]
Karina Martinez
Yeah, floating. I felt like I was floating. I felt like I was having a tour of the whole area. And the only things that I could bring back are the little things that I'm sharing with you. You have no idea how many times I cry. Why don't you let me see what I saw? Why don't you let me. And he's only allowing me bits and pieces of it. When I floated and I started seeing this huge, massive tree, I could see from the top, like, almost if I had come down. The trunk of the tree is massive. I could see a tree.
- [45:23]
John Burke
And where are you? What are you seeing?
- [45:25]
Karina Martinez
So I'm seeing a garden. I'm seeing the tree, and I'm seeing, you know, those cement benches. I see a cement. But. But it's gold. And I see a little girl just running around laughing. And I could not speak to her. I had no connection, but yet connection. And my. My whole being was just enjoying the love because it was not so much of the peace, but the love that I always seek before it was given to me there. And then I saw a river on the side of the tree. And I could see the roots of the tree being fed through the water. It's hard to explain, but the roots were radiant. Like this angel, you know, like this whole. And it's just all alive. Everything is alive. And it was part of me, and I'm part of that because there's two angels. And I recognized there were two angels the whole time after I went up into the tree. And this tree had purple flowers. And that's why I wear sometimes flowers and love flowers. But there's massive sunflowers, massive sunflowers. And there's purple flowers. And I could smell. We were talking about the smell. I could smell like lavender. There's a smell in heaven, but I can't. I had gone through all the oils possible to try to find it.
- [46:47]
John Burke
There's just nothing like it. The smells, the sights, the sounds, the sense of connectedness to heaven's nature. It's all that we love in this life on steroids, you know? Other near death experiencers, interestingly, they describe this massive tree by a river and many times they describe the tree as emitting like a glow with gorgeous flowers and sweet tasting fruit. You know, some wonder is this the tree of life described in Revelation, where it says, on each side of the river grew a tree of life bearing 12 crops of fruit with a fresh crop each month. The leaves were used for medicine to heal the nations. This is fascinating. A couple of things. First, you know, the Tree of Life obviously isn't just one tree because they're on, it says, on both sides of the river. So maybe it's a species of trees called the Tree of Life. But also it says that the tree's leaves have healing effects, like a medicinal effect to heal the nations. Now, what I find fascinating is many near death experiencers I've heard from talk about bathing in that river and the healing properties of that river which would have fed the leaves of that tree. Right. In fact, Rebecca, the near death experience from the 1890s, bathed in that river and her brother in law Frank was there with her. And she asked him, are all the rivers like this one? Not just the same, but similar? Frank replied, I look back at the shining river flowing on tranquilly. Frank, what has that water done for me? I said, this is Rebecca. I feel as though I could fly. He answered gently, it has washed away the last of the earth life and fitted you for the new life to which you have entered. It's divine. I whispered, yes, it is divine. He said, you know, it's fascinating because the river of life, Jesus said, you know, come to me if you were thirsty and from your innermost being will flow rivers of living water. And he was talking about the spirit of God. But in heaven, there's a connection there. And it's fascinating too to think that near death experiencers speak of this healing property that they experience in the river. But also in Revelation, it appears that there will still be healing in heaven. And I think about it like this. You know, God created all of nature and even in nature, you know, in the plants, there are medicines that heal our bodies. Well, in the nature of heaven, there are going to be medical properties that heal our soul from the wounds and the scars of this earth life as we move on to something completely new. So maybe this is the Tree of Life, you know, I don't know. The Tree of Life was in the Garden of Eden. We were forbidden to eat from it once we rebelled against God and it says God was protecting us from eating from it and living Eternally in a state of disconnection or separation from God. But there in heaven, on the other side, we can eat from it and live forever because we've learned the lessons of Earth that what's missing is God and his perfect will. And Jesus paid to forgive us of, you know, all the mistakes and all the wrongs so that we can move forward. So we will eat from the tree of life. Now, I don't know if that's what people are eating from, but some near death experiencers did taste fruit from some of the trees. Listen to what Richard said. The beautifully manicured park was filled with huge striking trees. They had to be at least 2,000ft tall. And there were many different varieties. Some I knew, others I had no idea what species they were. There was a continual sound of chimes coming from the leaves of one tree as they brushed against one another. The fruit was pear shaped and copper colored. When I picked it, another fruit instantly grew in its place. When I touched the fruit to my lips, it evaporated and melted into the most delicious thing I had ever tasted. Okay, I know, I know it sounds sci fi, like kind of fairy tale, magical fiction. And I'm telling you that's what I thought when I first started hearing. But when you hear hundreds, if not almost thousands, describing the same overlapping things, you know, then you have to ask, well, you know, maybe my cynical self is not willing to accept what God's been telling us all along. Heaven is going to be beyond our wildest imagination. And you know, I love what C.S. lewis said because, you know, he was an Oxford literary scholar and he said, how do you explain that this idiotic universe created creatures whose very dreams and fantasy ideas could surpass what we experience here? And he said, unless maybe all of our fantasies and sci fi wonders are actually pointing us toward where we really belong. I think that's the case. Okay, so I love nature. But if I had to pick my favorite place in nature to play, it'd be out at the lake or maybe at the ocean. What about lakes and oceans? Are there lakes and oceans in heaven? You know, I, I grew up on the water. I grew up on lakes, sailing. I grew up surfing in the ocean. Later in life, I learned to scuba dive. I loved exploring the kelp beds off the, the California coast or going to some Caribbean place and exploring the vast beauty of the coral reefs. I mean, there's so much beauty even that we haven't seen. But the water is my happy place. So will there be lakes and oceans and will we enjoy them? In a similar way, in the life to come, many near death experiencers say, yes. You know Marv Besteman, the bank president I was telling you about? Again, bank presidents don't typically make up wild stories of visiting heaven. They don't need to. They're not even like that. Right. And yet Marv says when he coded in the hospital, these angels take him to heaven. And there he sees a lake and even boats on the lake, which personally made me excited. Here's what Marv says. About 60 yards away, in the middle left of the panorama before me were some old fishing boats pulled up on the shore of a huge rippling lake. The boats looked worn and aged, not sleek and razzy, dazzy like the boats we see zooming around on Lake Michigan where he lived. They lay on a sandy, rocky seashore. The blue of the lake was a darker, less brilliant blue than the shade of heaven's sky. And the surface had a few gentle waves like an ocean or one of the Great Lakes. I couldn't see the other side. All right, was this just like a great lake or an ocean? Not sure. But what's fascinating is Rebecca Springer, the near death experiencer from the 1890s, you know, and again, before near death experiencers were known, not only describes the exquisite beauty of this lake nestled in the hills of heaven, but she describes seeing people enjoying and playing on the lakes, on boats propelled by some unseen force. She's describing what we would describe, like motorboats, but in an age when that wasn't even known. Listen to how she describes people enjoying heaven's lakes in old ways, but also in new ways. Rebecca says this. Before us spread a lake as smooth as glass, but flooded with a golden glory caught from the heavens that made it look like a sea of molten gold. The blossom and fruit bearing trees grew down to the very border in many places. And far, far away across its shining waters arose the domes and spires of what seemed to be a mighty city. Many people were resting on its flowery banks. And on the surface of the water were boats of wonderful structure, filled with happy souls and propelled by some unseen power. Little children as well as grown persons were floating upon or swimming in the water. And this is wild, you know, because she describes boats propelled along by some unseen power, hopefully not gasoline. All right. I'm hoping we won't be smelling that in heaven. I'm sure there's other technologies there, but they're enjoying nature and, and even a lake, just like we would here. And, and why wouldn't they? Because, you know, God is the creator of all we love and enjoy. And the beauty of nature he created. And nature's beauty is going to be there, but we're also going to experience it in dimensions beyond what we've experienced here, you know. Rebecca was not only surprised to find that she could stay underwater for a very long time. Because of course we don't have to breathe in heaven. We're not dependent on lungs and air because it's the life and light of God flowing through everything that gives it life. She could also find she could communicate underwater and also experienced other things that other near death experiencers have also told me. Listen. May led me down to the water, down, down into its crystal depths. And when it seemed to me we must be hundreds of feet beneath the surface, she threw herself prostate and bade me do the same. I did so. And immediately we began to slowly rise. Presently I found that we no longer rose, but were slowly floating in mid current. Many feet still beneath the surface then appeared to me a marvel. Look where I would. Perfect prismatic rays surrounded me. I seemed to be resting in the very heart of a prism. And such vivid yet delicate coloring mortal eyes never rested upon. Instead of the seven colors as we see them here, the colors blended in such rare graduation of shades as to make the rays seem almost infinite. As I lay watching this marvelous panorama for the colors deepened and faded like the lights of the aurora borealis. I was attracted by the sound of distant music. I whispered, tell me, May. Yes dear, I will. The waters of this lake catch the light in a most marvelous manner. As you've seen, a wiser head than mine must tell you why they also transmit musical sounds. Only musical sounds for a great distance. The song was evidently from the distant shore of the lake. Now think about how much fun and how wonderful God is what he has in store for us. You know, I remember so many wonderful days out on Lake Travis here in Austin. You know, when my kids were young, we would go sailing or go out to an island. We'd go jumping off cliffs, swimming and diving, just laughing and hearing music. And just imagine this great reunion. We meet again. But there we enjoy God's lakes and new wonders and experiences above the water and under the water. Things that we have never imagined. Well, what about the ocean? What about beaches? Because I love the ocean too, you know, and some people love mountains or fall forests. But you know, I'll tell you my choice vacation is Santa Barbara. My wife Kathy and I lived there for seven years. And I think it's one of the most beautiful Places on Earth, it's mountains, you know, 4,000 foot mountains cascading down to meet the, you know, the yellow sand beach and crystal clear waters. A little cold, but if you wear a wetsuit, you know, you can surf the energy of these waves. You can go scuba diving in the kelp beds and see life forms. So are we going to enjoy oceans like that? Well, you know, some theologians will say no, sorry, no oceans in heaven. So probably no beach, no waves, none of that. Now, why would they say that? Well, John, remember who wrote the book of Revelation, was imprisoned on an island in the Mediterranean island of Patmos. So the sea was the walls of his prison. And John writes this in the book of Revelation. Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven. And the first earth had passed away and there was no longer any sea. Okay, now first question is, is John making a global statement, there will not be any sea or any ocean in heaven? Is he making that statement like a fact, or is he noticing that there was no sea, there was no prison any longer? Is he noticing what you know is not there because for so long it had imprisoned him? That's what he says. There was no longer any sea. It's an observation. But he also says he's describing the new heaven and the new earth. So he's not even describing the intermediate heaven, which is what near death experiencers are describing, if you don't know what I'm talking about. The Bible talks about how there's an intermediate heaven and earth that are separate, but one day God's going to rejoin them, a new heaven and a new earth joined. But I don't think the Bible is declaring that there will definitely be no sea, no ocean life, no oceans at all. And I don't think it contradicts what many near death experiencers describe. You know, Debbie Ali is someone I just met. She has an incredible story. She was living on the island of Trinidad and was kidnapped and held for ransom for almost two weeks. And they tortured her literally to the point of death. After 10 or so days of this horrific living in captivity, her body gave out. Listen to how Debbie describes where Jesus took her in heaven, literally in the.
- [62:28]
Debbie Ali
Blink of an eye. I was above my body. People say the math is not mapping at not matting. So I went down and I looked at my chest. There's no sign, no movement on my chest. And I mean, I really looked for, you know, a couple of minutes. I had never felt more alive, more vibrant, more energetic, more myself. I had never felt more Myself than then, yeah, before I could even process that, there comes Jesus stepping out of the white light. This is white, brilliant light like I'd never seen. And I was able to look directly into that light and not, I know, no need to squint or, you know, I'm just looking in this brilliance, you know. And there was an instant knowing everything about him emanates love. So it's just whether it's the pinky toe or the big toe, it's just knowing that you're in his presence. And I mean, before I could even just settle in, just to remain there, he lifted me up to a standing position and he said, you know, child, you've been through enough. You're tired, you're exhausted, you can rest now. And there were no sweeter words for me at that point than to hear that. And he cradled me as an adult. He cradled me just like this, like a newborn baby. He snuggled me and I slept. Man, John, that was sleep. You know, when I woke up, I was over his shoulder just like a toddler was on the beach of heaven. I'm sure there were more than one, but that particular one, I was on that beach. So I was looking over his shoulder like, just like a toddler would in wonderment. It's like taking a three year old to Disneyland for the first time. And they're like, everything was amplified a gazillion trillion times. Even though I know that's not a thing, but, you know, it was just, everything was all lies.
- [64:42]
John Burke
What were you seeing? What did it look like?
- [64:45]
Debbie Ali
I saw, you know, a length of beach that we had walked. Clearly he had walked by, but there were no footprints. And, you know, there was no need for speech. Everything was, I thought it, he responded or he responded and I asked a question. And there was, it was not as though I was incapable of speaking. There's a choice, but there really was no need to. And I, I questioned, you know, there should be footprints, you know, because it's sand.
- [65:21]
John Burke
And you were living in Trinidad at the time, which is.
- [65:24]
Debbie Ali
Yes.
- [65:25]
John Burke
Beaches in the Caribbean. Right.
- [65:27]
Debbie Ali
I grew up around like the beaches everywhere, right. So it was always one of my favorite places. He said, debbie, you don't see footprints because you're not supposed to go back. And I'm like, he put me down on the sand. He knew what I was thinking. I know he knew what I was thinking, but he did not respond at the time. And I reveled in that sand. There was a blue in that ocean, different shades of blue, that as crazy as this Sounds. And I am no artist, trust me. I mixed every paint color I could find to, you know, in an attempt to replicate at least one shade of the blue. Cannot, cannot find. Does not exist in this realm, in this world. Beauty Fall. And I remember the line on the horizon. Just one dead straight line. And I. Everything was so amplified that it was. It was blowing my mind. Every little thing blew my mind. I've seen the horizon. I mean, how many times? But that horizon was just. There was a glow kind of emanating from the horizon. And the water was like. Just like an ocean filled with fish. Different kinds of aquatic life and all of that. And the life, you know, whatever, crabs, fish or whatever, they were moving and doing their thing.
- [67:08]
John Burke
You knew that or you saw that.
- [67:10]
Debbie Ali
Or I saw that and I knew that. So. So even my vision was like, I was able to see that far into the waters where I could see the outlines of the different types of fish and the colors and even the skeleton, if I looked closely enough, I can see them moving around and they're just kind of doing whatever and. And I'm like, wow, you know, that's cool. I didn't know we had those here. You know, I'm thinking these things and I saw the life in the ocean, but the. The water itself was alive. The ocean water itself was. Was a living, breathing thing. It's almost as though there was a heartbeat in the ocean. Interesting, but not one you could hear, but you could sense.
- [68:05]
John Burke
So there was a. There was a life to even the. The water, the ocean water, the sea.
- [68:10]
Debbie Ali
And I'll tell you how I realized that as well, because that was my initial thought when I viewed the. The ocean as it was. But then as Jesus walked, you know, maybe two or three steps along the. The shoreline, you know, where the water lapse onto the sand, the water would stop moving. There was no movement. So, same way that the horizon was a dead straight line, the water, where it encroaches on the sand became a dead straight line.
- [68:41]
John Burke
But only where he was walking.
- [68:43]
Debbie Ali
Only where he walked.
- [68:45]
John Burke
So were there waves? Was there movement? Like, like an ocean?
- [68:49]
Debbie Ali
Like an ocean? There's not, you know, normal waves, no crashing waves, but there was, you know, the gentle ripple of the. Of the water because that's the nature. That's nature, right? It's movement in the water. So there will be. If the fish move, there will be movement. If there's wind, which there was a gentle breeze, it will move the water and caused the ripples and all of that. So all of that was natural.
- [69:11]
John Burke
And so was it. Was it similar to a beach that we would see in the Caribbean or something like that?
- [69:18]
Debbie Ali
Yes, very much so.
- [69:20]
John Burke
But so much more brilliant.
- [69:22]
Debbie Ali
Yes, Similar, but not so. It's.
- [69:27]
John Burke
So.
- [69:27]
Debbie Ali
It's. The fish stopped moving. The fish. I saw the fish stop moving, kept.
- [69:34]
John Burke
Moving as Jesus was passing, as he passed by. What do you think that was about?
- [69:40]
Debbie Ali
Well, the Lord, that's what he told me, was, everything must stand still in my presence.
- [69:48]
John Burke
Wow.
- [69:49]
Debbie Ali
And it suddenly made sense.
- [69:53]
John Burke
Kind of like all nature, all creation bows down before him.
- [69:57]
Debbie Ali
Everything must be honored to his presence, wherever he is.
- [70:01]
John Burke
Wow.
- [70:02]
Debbie Ali
And that's why. I know when I was in San Diego, we went to the beach. So the very first thing I wanted to do was go wiggle my toes in the sand and just, Just, just for it, you know? And I wiggled and I wiggle and I was like, oh, man, I wish I was back home. This sucks. Yes.
- [70:19]
John Burke
Back home in heaven.
- [70:22]
Debbie Ali
Because that sand sucks. I mean, don't get me wrong, California is beautiful. Nice sand and all that, but it sucks compared to when you've seen that. Come on, really, what do you want?
- [70:34]
John Burke
What was it about the sand?
- [70:36]
Debbie Ali
Each grain of sand was a crystal. And I mean a uniquely shaped and formed crystal stone. But it was not hard on my feet because crystal, by its very nature, is. You know, there's a hard exterior. It was not tough on my feet. It felt like a sponge. But yet when I held, you know, like, a little bit of sand in my fingers, it was. They were crystals. And I could have marveled at each one. I could have marveled at each one, like, for all eternity, you know? But let me tell you about the light, because it suddenly occurred to me, wait a minute. Where's all this light coming from? But there's no sun. And it was. It was fun. And I could tell Jesus was giggling. I knew he was, like, giggling in his mind, like, she's looking at the.
- [71:26]
John Burke
Jesus was giggling.
- [71:27]
Debbie Ali
Oh, yeah, he does. He has a sense of humor. He does. He said, there's no sun because there's no need for the sun. Why do we need the sun when the light of God shines on everything around you and there is no sky? So what I was looking at and I saw no clouds and not nothing. I mean, there were birds and all of that, but there were no clouds. He said, we don't need a sky and we don't need a sun. Where. Why do we need a sky When God's love is limitless and you are limitless, you can move as freely and as quickly as you desire, there's nothing. And I suddenly realized there were trees. The color, the greens of those trees, I mean, it's. Again, I cannot replicate. I can't find it, right? But I looked at the leaves, and there was no shadow under the leaves. I looked at the rocks. There was no shadow all around the rocks. It was just light everywhere. But the life in the tree was alive as well, you know, it was. It was almost as though the leaves and the. The branches and even the rocks, everything emanated this light and everything almost had its own pulse.
- [72:49]
John Burke
So life, you mean of a different kind in heaven, Even in the trees and the ocean and.
- [72:57]
Debbie Ali
Yeah, everything was a living, breathing organism almost.
- [73:03]
John Burke
Wow.
- [73:04]
Debbie Ali
All on its. All of these, you know, the trees, the aquatic life, everything. It was getting its life force from the light of God. Until finally Jesus asked me, said, you really want to go back and build your kids? And I said, yes. But I could have remained there and be totally at peace, never wanting to return to this earth. I really, I really didn't. I really didn't. But there was the call. My babies.
- [73:36]
John Burke
Yeah.
- [73:37]
Karina Martinez
Yes.
- [73:37]
John Burke
The wonders of God's nature in heaven are endless. Again, when I first heard some of these, and this one I'm going to tell you about, especially at first, you know, just my skeptical engineer. Nature is like, I doubt it. That doesn't make sense. And yet when near death experiencer after near death experiencer, again and again and again told me things like, all of heaven's nature praises God, like, at first I couldn't believe it, even though the Bible says that. But I always thought it was metaphor. You know, it says in Isaiah 44, sing for joy, you heavens, for the Lord has done this. Shout aloud, you, earth beneath burst into song, you mountains, you forests, you and all your trees. You know, I read that and I thought, you know, it's metaphor. I wasn't thinking that's truly what heaven's like. Psalm 65 says the same. The hills are clothed with gladness, the meadows are covered with flocks, and the valleys are mantled with grain. They shout for joy and sing. Psalm 96, Let the heavens be glad, and earth rejoice. Let the sea and everything in it shall shout his praise. Let the fields and their crops burst out with joy. Let the trees of the forest sing for joy before the Lord. I wouldn't have believed that that's literal in heaven if so many people that I respected and knew they wouldn't just make this up again and again and again hadn't told Me.
- [75:17]
Dr. Mary Neal
So God began to withdraw part of himself. And I could see something infinitely far away. But it was as if it was right in front of me and it was heaven. I could see the grass and the trees and the flowers and I could see every detail. I could see every individual blade of grass. I could see every vein and every leaf, every needle on every pine tree. I could see everything in the. The. And even the grass was singing the praises of God. There was music. They were singing. Now, I don't. They weren't singing in words. And if you asked me to reproduce that sound, I couldn't. But all I can say is even the blades of grass were singing the praises of God. And the colors were. The colors were so alive that the most beautiful day on earth is, Is just a reflection of those colors.
- [76:14]
Don Piper
At first, when I first entered in, it seemed like everything there was glad I was there. The trees were glad I was there, the flowers were glad I was there. The water was glad I was there. There was animals, peoples, everything you would have here on the planet in the sense of life. You know, it's just that everything was alive, There was nothing dead. And everything was intelligent. It was past anything that I would believe that it would be like.
- [76:37]
Jim Woodford
And I turn and with the tall guardian behind and a guardian on either side, we walked down this beautiful 10 to 12 foot wide path lined with flowers of colors that I'd never seen. And I've been in 52 countries and flowers that sing to you, John. There was a melody that came up, the tinkling of bells, but it had a melody. And in heaven, color is sound and sound is color. So the notes come up in a pink mistake and it all goes off to the horizon that was brightly lit because that's the throne room of God.
- [77:12]
John Burke
And you know, I would not have believed any of that, except I've heard so many of you even talk about the flowers and melodies coming out and the singing.
- [77:22]
Jim Woodford
It's interesting. You know, I have people say, well, you know, I heard similar things. Well, I hope so. God didn't create heaven just for me.
- [77:28]
John Burke
It's a great reminder that all of creation will one day praise God because you too in his presence will one day burst forth in praise. It won't be difficult. You, your soul will be so filled with joy, you will want to, because there'll be nothing else to do with this incredible feeling of gratitude that you have. But, you know, you don't have to wait for that. I want to encourage you to apply what we've been talking about. Today, you know, so many people find it hard to. To worship or to praise God. It feels like a duty, or you ought to or you should. But, you know, in heaven, it's not going to be that way. It's going to be natural. And I think the reason it's not more natural on earth is because we just don't connect the dots. So connect the dots. Think about everything that you love. The beauty of a sunset or a sunrise, or enjoying, you know, biking or nature with, with friends and family. All those things you love, point to the One who created you to be able to love them, to experience beauty, to experience joy, and let it point you back in gratitude and thanks. You know, all that we've experienced here on earth is, is just a finger pointing to the wonders of heaven. Life on earth really is like a board game, you know. You ever played Monopoly? You know, some people, man, they get way too into Monopoly, right? You know, they lose perspective, you know, and how they play. But the truth is, it doesn't really matter at the end of the game how many houses you have on Park Place or how much paper money you've stacked up. Because at the end of the game, as my friend John Ortberg says, it all goes back in the box, right? It all goes back in the box. And all that matters is how you played the game, how it affected who you were and how you interacted with people. And the truth is, this Earth life is like a board game. You know, at the end of the game, you're not going to take it with you. It all goes back in the box. You're not going to ship your storage unit to heaven. You're not going to see a hearse pulling a U Haul. You can't take anything with you. The only thing that matters is how you played the game of life. So let this motivate you to be faithful to God in the way you play the game of life. Jesus said this. If you're faithful in little things, you'll be faithful in large ones. If you're dishonest with little things, you won't be honest with greater responsibilities. And he's talking about the life to come. If you're untrustworthy, worthy with worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches of heaven? And we've begun to get just a glimpse of the true riches of heaven, you know, and what he's saying is, whoever is faithful with what doesn't last on earth can be trusted with so much more of what does last in the life to come. So I hope imagining heaven today has motivated you just to be like the heroes of faith who live this life and are even willing to go through the hardship and the difficulties and being faithful to God more and more knowing that you won't miss anything here, but what's to come is so much better. And I hope as well that imagining heaven today motivates you to live in gratitude and praise right now for all the beauty and the wonders you experience that God's given you in this life. You know, this week, just go out and notice beauty. Notice the little intricacies of nature. Just enjoy nature with friends, biking or, or taking a walk. But as you do, connect the dots, marvel at the beauty of the Creator, thank Him for being able to enjoy, you know, this beauty that he's given you or the enjoyment of his creation. Because when you do that, not only does it honor God, not only does God enjoy you enjoying what he's given you as a gift, but it'll turbocharge your enjoyment of life and even the depth of your experience of all the beauty of life. Well, I hope you have enjoyed this podcast. I've enjoyed doing it because I just love thinking about it. Like I said, I love nature. But if you have enjoyed this, then I hope you'll subscribe so you'll get notifications of when new episodes come out. Please, you know, hit the like and ring the bell because Mr. AI who runs Planet Earth now, you know that'll let them know to send this to other people who need to hear about it and share this with your friends and family and loved ones who need to know of the goodness of God and all that's awaiting us. Until next time, be blessed.