Software Engineer's Mind-Blowing NDE

Summary

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Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke

Episode Title: Software Engineer's Mind-Blowing NDE
Release Date: October 14, 2025
Guests: Steve and Kathy Boyles

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Episode Overview

This episode features Steve and Kathy Boyles—a software engineer and a medical doctor—who together recount Steve’s extraordinary near-death experience (NDE) during a medically induced coma brought on by COVID-19 and related complications. Host John Burke guides Steve and Kathy as they describe both the empirical and spiritual facets of Steve’s experience, exploring vivid depictions of heaven, encounters with loved ones, and deeply rooted themes of faith, healing, and the power of prayer.

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Key Insights and Discussion Points

1. Background and Medical Context

• Steve’s Illness and Hospitalization
  • Steve was hospitalized with COVID-19 in December 2021 after severe symptoms.
  • He was on a ventilator and in a medically induced coma for three weeks, spending a total of 45 days under intensive care and three-and-a-half months in the hospital [03:21], [04:01].
  • His wife, Kathy—a physician—was initially not allowed to visit due to COVID restrictions, relying on intensive prayer and faith to support him [06:05], [12:12].
  • "It was a fight of faith, the good fight of faith." – Kathy [03:05]

2. The Near Death Experience: “More Real Than Earth”

• The Angelic Encounter

  • Steve describes an angel introducing himself:
    • "'Hello, Steve. My name is Marzuka—I'm here to take you to heaven for a little while while your body heals.'" [07:20]
  • The angel, Marzuka, tells Steve he’s been his guardian angel from birth [10:19].

• "Realness" of the Experience

  • Steve emphasizes the logical, analytical nature of his background and how uncharacteristic such experiences are for him:
    • “I had a perfectly good, quiet life before all this happened. Good career... I’m pretty logical...I analyze things and try to figure things out.” [08:20]
  • Repeatedly asserts, “Heaven’s more real than Earth.” [14:12]
    • "Everything in the spiritual world was just as solid or more real than it was here on Earth." [13:48]

• Leaving the Body

  • Steve felt like himself during the experience:
    • “I just felt like it was me...I kept my eye on the angel and I’m following him.” [09:09]
    • He did not observe his physical body from above, simply "rose up" following Marzuka [09:36].

3. Journey to Heaven

• The Transit

  • Describes moving rapidly through space, seeing stunning celestial vistas—such as those seen from the Hubble telescope [13:21–15:01]:
    • “I saw stuff in space you only see in Hubble Space telescope pictures...this is God’s creation, but we can actually see [it].” [13:15]
    • Angel Marzuka explains: “God has never stopped creating things. He’s still creating, and it will probably take eternity for us to see everything that he’s created.” [15:55]

• Arrival: The Welcome Center

  • Steve and Marzuka land in a grassy area at a "welcome center" [16:40]
    • Describes ornate carvings depicting various natural scenes, which foreshadow what he would later see in heaven [17:47]:
      • “Kind of like a travel agency with scenes you can visit.” [18:20]

• Heavenly Architecture & Light

  • Details of the welcome center:
    • “Big room, high ceilings, a chandelier with huge diamonds, rubies, emeralds...they glowed and gave the room light—no shadows in heaven.” [19:21–19:55]

4. Encounters With Loved Ones, Pets, and the Joy of Heaven

• Family and Pets

  • Reunites with deceased dogs, niece, friends, parents, and brother. All appear young and vibrant:
    • “Everybody seemed to find me...dogs knew me and I got to play with them.” [26:44]
    • "If you're bald on earth, you'll have a full head of hair in heaven." [26:35]
  • Emotional moments with his brother:
    • “You've been gone for like 30 years.”
      • “Feels like I just got here.” [31:12–31:46]
    • No passage of time as experienced on Earth.

• Vivid Senses: Color, Smell, Taste

  • Describes a meadow with flowers whose multicolored petals blend in ways impossible on Earth [25:21].
  • Tastes food (apple-like fruit, vanilla ice cream) with sensations more delightful and intense than anything earthly [28:14]:
    • “Eat whatever you want, not gain any weight. The vanilla ice cream...it was just amazing. It didn’t melt.”

• Activities: Sports, Music, Fellowship

  • Witnesses and participates in a heavenly baseball game, complete with new physics (e.g., corkscrew pitches) and no risk of injury [33:04]:

    • “Physics in heaven is not the same as physics on earth...the stadium seating floated on top of each other.” [35:19]

  • Attends a Bible study taught by the Apostle Paul and has a conversation with Stephen the martyr [46:20–47:07]:

    • “Don’t fear man, just do what the Lord tells you to do.” – Stephen [47:02]

  • Encounters miscarried son Daniel, who grew up in heaven after Kathy’s early loss:

    • “‘Hi, my name’s Daniel. I think you’re my dad.’” [42:52]
    • “I’ve been here since I was really little...growing up with a bunch of other little babies.” [43:25]

5. The Throne Room: Meeting Jesus

• The Throne Room Experience

  • Describes tremendous beauty (floor as transparent gold, carved scenes of creation), thunder, rainbow, and light radiating from God [73:35].

  • Jesus personally greets Steve:

    • Shows Steve two images of his body: one grayscale (“not looking very good”) and one in color. Jesus explains, “You’re going to be just fine because you’re healed by my stripes and my righteousness.” [74:17]
    • Gives him a loving hug (“the most amazing hug you could ever imagine”) and affirms Steve’s sense of protection and peace [74:26].

  • Jesus mentions the "war horses" preparing for battle and tells Steve, “I got work for you to do when you get back, and I’ll tell you what it is at the right time.” [76:18]

  • Description of Jesus:

    • “About 6’1” or 6’2”, long hair to his shoulders, neatly trimmed beard, white robe with purple sash, deep blue eyes.” [77:52]

  • Spiritual Authority:

    • Marzuka the angel kneels before Jesus but ushers Steve forward:
      • “You are family, you don’t have to crawl to God, you can go right up to Him.” [79:57]

6. The Power of Prayer and Faith

• Kathy’s Stand of Faith

  • Unable to visit, Kathy prayed and read healing scriptures over FaceTime for 12 hours a day. As a doctor, she understood the grim medical prognosis but clung to scriptural promises [55:12].
  • “[God’s] word works every time...I had to see him home, driving his car again, not in a coffin...every time those bad thoughts came, I would have to cast them down.” [55:12–58:00]
  • Friends and their daughter had spiritual visions of angels protecting Steve during his illness [62:41–64:44].

• Prayers Make a Difference

  • Steve’s deceased father tells him:
    • “I’m so glad people didn’t quit praying for me...I know there may not have been much of a change on the outside, but my heart is what changed.” [68:22]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Heaven’s more real than Earth.” – Steve [14:12]
• “Everything I saw was beautiful, more solid and vivid than anything on earth.” – Steve [13:48]
• “If you’re bald on earth, you’ll have a full head of hair in heaven.” – Steve [26:35]
• “He told me he’d been my guardian angel since I was born and saved my life more times than I’ll ever know.” – Steve [10:19]
• “God has never stopped creating things...it will probably take eternity for us to see everything He’s created.” – Marzuka, relayed by Steve [15:55]
• “We don’t realize how much God wants to do for us when we pray in faith.” – Kathy [83:47]
• “You are family, you don’t have to crawl to God, you can go right up to Him.” – Marzuka [79:57]
• “Don’t fear man, just do what the Lord tells you to do.” – Stephen (the martyr) [47:02]
• “My new favorite verse is 1 Corinthians 2:9–10...no eye has seen, no ear has heard, but he reveals them to those who love him.” – Steve [39:03]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Steve’s Health Crisis & Hospitalization: [03:21–07:20]
• Angel Marzuka Introduces Himself: [07:20–10:19]
• Describing the Journey Through Space/Universe: [13:15–15:05]
• Arrival at Heaven’s Welcome Center: [16:31–19:55]
• The Meadow, Family & Pets, Heavenly Food: [25:21–29:07]
• Time & Reunions in Heaven: [31:12–32:14]
• Sports, Baseball, Heaven’s Physics: [33:04–36:04]
• Bible Study with Apostle Paul, Meeting Stephen: [46:13–47:14]
• Meeting Miscarried Son Daniel: [42:27–43:58]
• The War Horses & Heavenly Stables: [49:07–51:53]
• The Throne Room & Meeting Jesus: [70:35–76:44]
• Description of Jesus: [77:52–78:33]
• Spiritual Authority/Access to the Father: [79:57–80:51]
• Kathy’s Testimony of Prayer & Faith: [55:12–59:34], [62:41–66:05]
• Father’s Transformation via Prayer: [68:19–69:52]

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Final Reflections

Steve’s story is remarkable for its clarity, detail, and alignment with biblical themes and imagery. John Burke emphasizes Steve and Kathy’s credibility—given their backgrounds, logical orientation, and lack of motive to fabricate—and explores how stories like Steve’s reinforce hope, underline the reality of the unseen realm, and assert the enduring power of prayer and faith.

The episode closes by reminding listeners of the hope of heaven and the joy awaiting believers, highlighting that “this world is temporary” and that “you’re not going to miss anything from this life [in heaven]; in fact, you’ll have more.”

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For more information, Steve and Kathy’s book, I've Been to Heaven, is available as of October 14, 2025, via their website steveandkathyb.com and major retailers.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious.

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

Good, how are you doing? Glad to be here.

[B]

Doing great. I am so excited for people to hear your story of this incredible near death experience that, that you had, Steve. But Kathy, you were a big part of it as well. You're, you're a medical doctor and you were there in the throes of all that happened, as I understand.

[D]

Yes, I certainly was. And it was a fight of faith, the good fight of faith.

[B]

Well, why don't you just dive in and tell, tell us what happened that day and I'd love to hear, you know, the, the full experience.

[D]

Well, on December 9th of 2021, Steve was admitted to the ICU. He spent 45 days on a ventilator. He was intubated on December 14th, and he spent three and a half months in the hospital. During that time, he had a supernatural experience. I wasn't aware of it, of course, and I was praying and believing God, learning more and more how to use my faith. So God was so faithful. And Steve is alive and well, totally healed. Praise God.

[B]

Wow. Well, what happened? What got, what got you there, Steve?

[C]

Well, I initially went to the hospital, the emergency room with COVID We all had Covid. Me, Kathy, and our daughter Stacy. We all had Covid. I seem to have it the worst. But Kathy had a really splitting headache and so she was really having a hard time focusing on helping me. So they thought it'd just be better to take me to the hospital to see if they could do something for me because I was just, I was not comfortable. I don't care what position I was in. I was just, I was miserable. And then I was having, you know, a little bit of difficulty breathing. So I went to the emergency room. But then after I got to the emergency room and got checked in, they basically told my daughter, no, you can't come in. And they basically sent her back out to the car. And then my daughter told Kathy, we can't go in. So then they put me up in the, up into the emergency room icu and then I was there. And that was on the December 9th. And then I went in and got, got on the ventilator on the 14th.

[B]

And you said, this is the beginning of COVID like 2020, 2021.

[C]

This was December of 2021.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So it'd been going on for a little bit.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Yeah. And so they wouldn't allow me to see him for 20 days. There was a committee that made an arbitrary decision that it would be 20 days before I could go in and visit him in. And so that was very concerning to me because normally I'm pretty good at taking care of my family as a physician and watch over everything that's going on. And I did not have the ability to do that. And so what I did have the ability to do was to pray God's word and to send the angelic host to Steve to watch over him. So that's what we did.

[B]

So you guys were believers, you're followers of Jesus at the time it happened?

[D]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

And so what brought on the near death experience?

[C]

Well, they put me on the ventilator, and of course, at that point in time, I'm pretty much out of it. I was in a medically induced coma and I was paralyzed, unconscious. And I guess some of the stuff they did, I got kidney failure and a few other problems. And so they were just thinking, well, they said that they were putting me on the ventilator to help me get over the COVID although I don't think I was under. I think I might have been, you know, more going down, getting away from the COVID stuff. But they put me on the ventilator anyway. And it was while I was on the ventilator and knocked out in a coma that that I got visited by an angel who. He basically came up to me, he said, you know, your. Your spirit man never, never sleeps, never dies. It's awake all the time, whether we're paying attention to it or not. And this angel comes up to me and says, hello, Steve, my name is Marzuka. You spell that M A R Z U K A. And I'm here to take you to heaven for a little while while your body heals.

[B]

Really.

[C]

And so I'm like, well, and I just have to.

[B]

I just have to point out to my audience listening that you're a software engineer, right?

[C]

Yes, yes.

[B]

And so you got a medical doctor and a software engineer. And I always like to point out.

[A]

Like, do you know what happens when you replace your regular old electric water heater with a new electric heat pump water heater? You boost your savings a lot. In fact, Energy Star estimates that a family of four will save an average of $550 a year on their electric energy bills. And heat pump water heater can pay for itself in as little as three years. Level up with a heat pump water heater. Go to levelupmywaterheater.com to learn more.

[B]

A lot of the people I interview have nothing to gain making up these crazy stories of dying and Going to heaven and seeing angels and Jesus and all this.

[C]

Yeah. I had a perfectly good, quiet life before all this happened. A good career.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

You know, and, you know, and, and I'm pretty logical in everything that I have to do with software because, you know, you've got. And I got a minor in math, so, you know, I feel I'm fairly logical about things and I analyze things and I try to figure things out, you know, problem solving, because that's what software engineering is.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so when all this is happening, I'm just like, well, this is like wild, you know, I've never had any thought or desire or anything like this.

[B]

And are you still yourself? You still feel like yourself?

[C]

Do I feel like I was before I went to the hospital?

[B]

Well, no. Like when this angel comes and says, we're gonna take a trip.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I thought it was me, you know, I just, I didn't think, oh, this is my spirit man rising up. I was just. Okay. I just felt like it was me just kind of going up now. It was my spirit man leaving my body and kind of like sitting up and just rising on up. But I felt me, you know, I don't know.

[B]

Did you see, did you see your physical body or just go?

[C]

No, because it was like going straight. Well, kind of like sitting up out of bed and then just keep going up. So, no, I never, never looked down, never looked around. I just kept, I kept my eye on the angel and I'm following him, you know, so.

[B]

And what did, what did he look like?

[C]

He, I guess, you know, after being around him for a little while in heaven, I'd say he was about 6:2 and kind of broad shouldered, had longer hair, parted in the middle, kind of straight, maybe just a tad wave to it. But you know, he looked, he looked like he was well built. And I'm glad he was my angel.

[B]

Hey, did, did you find that out? Was he like, did he say something?

[C]

Yes, I had a lot conversations with him and he told me he was my guardian angel, that he'd been with me since I was born, and that, you know, he had saved my life more times than I'll ever know.

[B]

Wow, that's amazing.

[C]

So, yeah, I'm like, whoa, you know, so I got to talk to him, ask him a lot of questions. Maybe not the kind of questions everybody else might ask him, but I, I got the ones that satisfied. It, satisfied me. So.

[B]

And, and Kathy, while, while this is going on, did you know that, that, that Steve had actually died physically?

[D]

No, he Never died physically.

[B]

He was okay.

[D]

He was in a medically induced coma on the ventilator. So. Okay, physically died.

[B]

So it wasn't a clinical death. And, and this is interesting because that people sometimes ask me, you know, why did they call it a near death experience? And, and though many are clinically dead, like no heartbeat, no brain waves, some are near death and yet they have the same, the same experience. And so it sounds like that that was your experience.

[D]

He was put on three sedatives and a paralytics so that he could be on the ventilator. And that's a medically induced coma. So it's similar to being under anesthesia if you were having a surgery. Okay, dead, you're on a ventilator.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But you're not able to communicate because you're in a coma.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And as I like to describe it, if you've ever seen the movie Princess Bride, there's a line where they take Wesley the hero to Miracle Max and he, Miracle Max as well, he's mostly dead, but a little bit alive. So I got something that I can work with. So is that tried my experiences. Like I was mostly dead, but a little bit alive. Wow.

[B]

Well, so tell us what, what then happened as you followed this angel?

[C]

Well, I mean, it was a pretty quick trip to heaven. You know, the Bible says that we're absent from the body is in the, in the presence of the Lord. So it doesn't take a long time to get to heaven. It's pretty much instantaneous. But you can see a lot going from here to there because I saw and you got to understand that your, your spiritual eyes have a much broader light. They can see a broader range of light spectrum. So I was able to see, you know, stuff in space that you only see in Hubble Space telescope pictures and stuff like that with the gas formations and stuff like that, which I was just like, this is like, you know, this is like, this is crazy. This is wild. This is beautiful. You know, this is God's creation. But we can actually see without the use of a telescope.

[B]

And you were so you were experiencing that you are moving through our universe.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And I like in another dimension.

[C]

I, I don't, I don't know that I would say it was another dimension, at least not initially, because I was, I could see things like shooting by me, like we were going like way fast and they're just like buzzing by. And I don't know that I would say that I was in another dimension. Well, I guess because of the fact that I was in my spirit, man. I am in another dimension automatically.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So I was in the, the spiritual world dimension. But I can tell you the, you know, everything was in the spiritual world was just as solid or more real than it was here on Earth. Yeah, I know people have a hard time when I tried to describe that, but it's. That's just what I can. Only thing I can say is that heaven's more real than Earth, you know?

[B]

Well, you're not alone. I mean, I've. I've interviewed and studied about a thousand five hundred cases like yours, and that's one of the most common things is like, this is the shadow. That's the real thing, right? More real than this, so.

[C]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

Yeah. So what. What were you seeing? That's fascinating. What were you seeing in outer space?

[C]

Well, like I said, the biggest thing that you could really see was just the. So if you've seen. You've seen pictures of like the Hubble space. Yeah, they've got all the. I, I saw that. I mean, that was pretty amazing. You can't see that without a Hubble Space Telescope. Unless if you're not. If you're here on Earth, you got to use that.

[B]

And you mean like that picture of the, the. The cradle of the universe kind of thing? The. Just all these gases going up.

[C]

Yes, yes, exactly. That you're seeing that kind of stuff.

[B]

And you know, I have to just say, you know, because some people think like, oh, this is, this is nuts either. Yeah. What you're. But Heidi Barr, who I interviewed, said Jesus took her and they were flying the same way through outer space. And when she came back and she noticed the same things, she was in a college class, an astronomy class, and they went to an observatory and trained on Andromeda, and when she gets up and looks in, she almost fainted.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Because she was like, I saw that. I was there with Jesus going past that, and she had said, wow, this is what God wakes up to every morning just in her. She was 16. So.

[C]

Yeah, I just don't. I don't think people realize how, how, you know, how amazing God is with his creation and everything. In fact, one of the things that Marzuka, the angel, my. My guardian angel, told me, he said that God has never stopped creating things. He's still creating, and it will probably take eternity for us to see everything that he's created. Wow.

[B]

So that's pretty exciting.

[C]

Well, it is, it is, because you're not going to have any dull days in heaven, I can promise you that. You're going to have a lot of bad days if you're not in heaven, but you're, you're not going to have any dull ones in heaven.

[B]

Yeah. So, so after that, where did you see you were going or did you.

[C]

Well, it was like, like I said, it was pretty quick. I, I couldn't like point in the direction of heaven and tell you where it is located in the sky, but I just know there we're suddenly there and on the ground. And I was, we landed in, in kind of a grassy area and right outside of that grass, right next to the grassy area was this building which it kind of sounds kind of corny, but it's the best way I can describe it is like a welcome center. And so we went in, there was a guy behind us very in ornate wood carve type desk and he told me, welcome to heaven, Steve. He goes, marzuka is going to be your guide and he's going to show you the things in heaven that you need to see. Well, one thing that I had noticed on the walls of the welcome center, there was like four scenes. One of them was a mountain scene, a valley scene, a meadow scene, and then more of like a kind of like a beach type scene is best.

[B]

And these are like paintings or what are they?

[C]

They're like more like carving carvings into the wall.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And, and I, I, I kind of tend to think that those were there just for me and I know the significance of going to those places and I didn't realize I was going to those places. But after I'd been there I'd say, oh, I saw this picture in the welcome center. Oh, I saw this scene in the welcome center. So it was kind of like I'm, I'm seeing all these things of places that I'm going. Kind of like, you know, you go to a travel agency and they got pictures of the Coliseum and Eiffel Tower and Rome and places like that and you know, visit these places type things. And that's, that's kind of what it was.

[B]

It was like a preview.

[C]

Kind of like a preview. Yeah.

[B]

And what was this building like that you were in?

[C]

I was, it was very, it was very nice. It was the, when you walked in, it had this like huge, it was a fairly big room. It had a high ceilings and it had like a chandelier hanging from the ceiling that it had, you know, I don't know, 10 or 12 arms around kind of U shaped and on the end were these huge.

[A]

Do you know what happens when you replace your Regular old electric water heater. With a new electric heat pump water heater, you boost your savings a lot. In fact, Energy Star estimates that a family of four will save an average of $550 a year on their electric energy bills. And your new heat pump water heater can pay for in as little as three years. Level up with a heat pump water heater. Go to levelupmywaterheater.com to learn more.

[C]

Like jewels, like diamonds and rubies and emeralds, all different, you know, type of big precious stones, except they were like the size of footballs. I mean, they were huge. You know, I would love to brought one back, you know, but I didn't have a place to put it. So anyway, and they. And they glowed and they were. They kind of like gave the room light. Oh, but, you know, there was no shadows. There's no shadows. No shadows in heaven. I didn't see any clouds either, because God is the light of heaven.

[B]

And you saw that? Yes.

[C]

Yeah, it was amazing.

[B]

So I'm just curious, Kathy, the first time you heard Steve talking about this, what was your reaction?

[D]

Well, the first thing that he remembered was something he saw when he was in the throne room, but he didn't realize that he saw it when he was in the throne room. He just told me, and this is, this is like three and a half months into his hospital stays, getting ready to come home from the rehab hospital, the third hospital. And he said, I can remember a couple pictures of myself that I saw when I, you know, when I was knocked out. And so he described them. So I thought, well, didn't you see the ventilator? Because I thought, well, if he come out of his body, he'd see the hospital bed and the ventilator and the. All the monitors and all of that stuff. But he didn't see any of that. He said, nope, all I saw was my body, and here's what it looked like. So I thought, well, that's kind of weird. The only thing I could think of was, well, maybe he was looking through a portal or something, I don't know. Because he didn't see any other objects in the room. He just saw his body laying down. So that was the first thing. And then, I mean, I just prayed about it and I thought, well, lord, did you take him somewhere and show him something? But then one time we were driving to church, you know, this is after he was already home, and he said, when I went into that coma that there was an angel that came about 18 inches from my face. And he said, hi, My name is Marzuka. You spell that. M A R Z U, K A. I'm here to take you to heaven for a little while while your body heals. And I'm like, what did you say? You know, it was so out of character for him because I, you know, when I really have been interested in, you know, heaven and all this stuff. My mom died in 2018. My dad went to heaven in 2009. So after my mom died in 2018, I got every book I could find about heaven, including yours, and I read them all, and I just devoured everything. And I would always take the books and say, hey, read this. This is really interesting, you know, you might like this. Nope, I'm not interested. I'll go to heaven someday, and I'm not interested in reading any books real soon. Yeah, I know he went to heaven, you know, he had a vision of heaven, whatever. And you want to watch it with me?

[C]

Go.

[D]

Don't want to do that. No. So it is so out of character for him to say something like this. And he's real big on spelling, you know, so, you know, he'll ask me how to spell something. So I'm like. The fact that he would tell me something, tell me the spelling of it was really odd.

[B]

Well, you'd been with him since birth, so.

[D]

Exactly. But I mean, we've been married for 34 years, so I kind of know him, and I know that this is not set. Something that he could make up, you know, this kind of really out there. So I thought, wow, it wouldn't.

[B]

It wouldn't be like him personally, you mean, to make something like that up?

[D]

It wasn't. And he wasn't ever interested in having stories at all. Nothing.

[C]

Well, when I said that I'd. I'd go to heaven someday, I meant like after I passed away.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Like, not when I'm like in the middle of my life somewhere and then suddenly go there and come back.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, and. And I had. So I had to really think about things and. And really kind of go through them and before I told her anything, because I thought she's gonna think I'm crazy, you know, and, you know, I just. I wanted to make sure this is what I had really experienced because I, you know, I want to be truthful about the whole thing. And, you know, so like I said, I had a nice, easy life before all this happened. I didn't need any crazy excitement. But, you know, it did happen. And I think part of the reason it happened, God, is, you know, since I Was like, pretty, you know, I'm not seeking anything. I think God wants to use you. He wants me to share what I experienced.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And, you know, so that's what I've tried to do since I came back. Just because first off, heaven's an amazing place. You need to know about it and you need to know about it so you can plan to be there. And how do you plan to be there? You got to accept Jesus. So that's the, that's like the. How do you get, how do you get to heaven? Well, the first you. You accept Jesus, you know, so get your ticket.

[B]

Well, and, and you experienced a lot. Taught through, you know, after the welcome center, like some of the, some of the amazing things that, that you experience. Because I think, one thing I think people don't realize is that heaven is life.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It's going to be like life, except so much more. And we're going to have purposes and work and fun and enjoyment and friends and fellowship. All the, all the things. And, you know.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Seeing Hubble Telescope type stuff.

[C]

Well, exactly. So, so we got to the. One of the first places we went to is like a big, big meadow. So it was like one of the things I saw on the wall.

[B]

And this is you and Marzuka.

[C]

Yes, Marzuka. Yeah, me and Marzuka. So we went to this meadow, which wasn't too far down the road from, from the welcome center, but it was an amazing place. Just lush groupings of flowers. And the flowers, the colors were multicolored. When I say multicolored, I mean like the, the colors would like, blend together. And, you know, it's not like a red flower or yellow flower. They were like all colors all blended together. It was just beautiful. The grass was luscious. You could step on it and spring right back up. It was really soft. You could probably sleep on it and have a great night's slee. You slept in heaven, you know, And I saw, I saw my niece. Okay, so my niece was. She passed away. She. About a week before she was supposed to get married. And so that was pretty tragic. And so when I got to see her, she looked beautiful. And everybody, everybody I saw looked like they were, you know, in great shape. They were. All looked young. Everybody looked like they were in their mid-20s to 30 years of age. And everybody looked healthy. Everybody had, you know, if, if you're bald on earth, you'll have a full head of hair in heaven. That's all I can say is because my dad.

[B]

That's good to know.

[C]

My dad had a Lot of thin hair when he was on earth, but he had a full head of hair when I saw him. So I saw my mom and dad. I saw my.

[B]

And is this, in that, in this meadow, they came up to you?

[C]

Yeah, I'm kind of like jumping around, but okay. Sorry.

[B]

That's okay.

[C]

But okay. So first I saw my dogs. We had a bunch of dogs and I saw like eight of them. And when they had all died, old age and not in very good shape, they're all looking fantastic, Amazing, healthy, beautiful, lush coats. We had a bunch of huskies and great Pyrenees. They just looked amazing. And I saw so. And they know me. They came up to me. It's like everybody knew I was there. They, they, everybody seemed to find me, which was. Made my life easy, I guess, or my trip. I didn't have to hunt anyone down, but like the dogs knew me and I got to play with them and that was a lot of fun. And then I saw a friend of mine named Gary that I used to work with and he, you know, he was kind of tall. He was about six two, maybe six three. And he was a little over. He was overweight. Okay. He could have lost a few pounds, but I saw him in heaven. I said, hey, Gary, how you like it here? Which I know is kind of a silly question, but you've never been there. You don't. You're trying to find out what people are thinking, you know? Yeah. He said, well, I love it here because I can, I can eat whatever I want to and not gain any weight. And so that's, that's a plus, you know, you can eat what you want. You don't gain weight. And I got to eat a little bit of stuff while I was up there. And it was amazing. It tastes really. Yes.

[B]

Like what?

[C]

Well, I, I got to eat something that was like an apple, except it was like a round, copper colored fruit. That's best. I can describe it, except it's not as big as a grapefruit and it tasted very, very similar to an apple. That was just amazing. And then I had to. I love vanilla ice cream. I know it's kind of bland, maybe to some people, but I love it. And this was like the. I got to eat some of the best to vanilla ice cream that I've ever had. I mean, it was just amazing. Really? Yes. And it melt. It didn't melt. So it's not like you have to keep licking it, you know, to keep it from dripping, so.

[B]

But it's cold. It's cold like ice cream.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow. I know. I. You know, I've heard it so many times, but it still does blow me away, quite honestly. Like, it. We're not going to miss anything from this life, are we?

[C]

No, we're not going to miss anything. I mean, because, I mean, there's a lot of stuff we're missing here.

[B]

Yeah, we're there.

[C]

Heaven is just a shadow. I mean, earth is just a shadow of heaven, and. And now it's kind of a bad shadow because, you know, because of Adam's fall, it was probably just a. Like a sliver of heaven down on earth. Now it's like, you know, the. The refuse, you know? Yeah. Even. Even the most corrupted. Yes. Well, even the most beautiful places on earth pale to what's in heaven. The aromas and smells that I could. I could remember smelling in heaven are just amazing.

[B]

And there's.

[C]

It's. I. It's hard to describe. I. I get excited when I start talking about it. I try not to get too wound up about it, but when you start talking about it, it. You just don't. You just can't talk about it and be quiet.

[B]

I understand. I do. Well, keep going. Tell us some of the other things that.

[C]

Well, I. I got to see my mom and dad. I hadn't. You know, my mom passed away about. Oh, I guess about 15 years ago. Well, I guess at the time it had been about 11 years ago. And she looked nice and young, looked beautiful. My dad was about the same. He looked nice and young and very handsome. And, you know, like I said, I had a full head of hair. I saw my brother. Now, my brother died about six. He. He was. He was my older brother. And he passed away about six months after we got married, which. And I was. I was. You know, everybody missed him because he was such a good guy. But, you know, I was like, okay, I'm newly married. Teddy's been married for a long time. I'm gonna. I gotta pick his brain and figure out how to navigate the life of being married, you know? And then. And then he was gone. And I'm like, oh, man. I mean, who am I gonna ask, you know? Because I. I was. I was close to him. Not as close as I would have liked to have been, but, I mean, I was fairly close with him. Anyway, it was so good to see him. And. And we hugged each other. I told him I missed him. I said, well, it's so good to see you. You've been gone for like 30 years. And he goes, it feels like I just got here.

[A]

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[C]

You know.

[B]

Wow. Really?

[C]

Yeah, you know, it's. It's like.

[B]

So he wasn't just saying that. He was saying he was actually surprised. It's been 30 years.

[C]

Said that, you know, there's like really no concept of time. So it's not like you just, you know, there's really no time in heaven, so you don't really know how much Earth time has passed. Maybe. But, I mean, we're going to be in heaven for eternity and it's going to. What's that song? And we've been there for 10,000 years.

[B]

10,000 years. Yeah. Seems like a day.

[C]

Yeah. So, I mean, so that's exactly what he was experiencing. And, you know, and that's why, I.

[B]

Guess, you know, you never get bored, right, because boredom requires time.

[C]

Well, yeah, and there's always things to do. I mean, you know, one of the biggest things I saw in heaven was a baseball game. And, you know, God is a baseball game. I. I used to have some kind of strange ideas about heaven until I went there. And one of my conversations with Marzuki said people need to expand their concept of heaven because it's a lot more than what our little minds can sometimes comprehend or even think. But, yeah, there's baseball in heaven and there's probably football and basketball and other things, too. But I.

[B]

What about soccer?

[C]

I'm sure it's probably there. It's a world sport.

[B]

It's got to be.

[C]

All those Europeans have to have something to play, you know.

[B]

Well, me too. I. I just. I just got over a broken ankle. Play soccer still, and they broke my ankle, so hopefully no broken ankles there.

[C]

Well, you know, the baseball game, nobody wore masks or vests, you know, protection vests or stuff like that, because you don't get hurt in heaven.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

There's no.

[B]

I. I have wondered about that. I. I've wondered if. Because, you know, some things, it's almost like the. The excitement or the thrill of them is a little bit of the danger on the edge of, you know.

[C]

Well, you know, but maybe with the fact, since you're not Going to get hurt. You know, maybe you try a little harder or something, I don't know. Because yeah, you figure I'm not going to get hurt. But yeah, the, the baseball game was, was amazing because, you know, physics in heaven is not the same as physics on earth. In fact. So one of the things that the pitchers could do with the baseball in heaven was making a little corkscrew type throw to make the ball in like, like a corkscrew and you know, made it very hard for the batters to hit. Now I think there might have been some restrictions on how many times they could throw something like that just because otherwise nobody would ever hit the ball or nobody would ever score a run and the game would go on forever, who knows?

[B]

But, but that's so fascinating. I mean that means there's, there is some kind of physics and there is give and take still. Like you can strike out or you can strike someone out.

[C]

Yeah, well, you know, and you know, I was thinking about this the other day is like, is it, would it physically be possible to throw a pitch like that on earth? And the only thing I could come up with was maybe, but it would probably destroy your arm. You'd probably get, you'd probably able to throw and your arm would just be. They couldn't do enough operations on your arm and wrist and shoulder to ever make it work again.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. That's amazing. So, so where were you watching this baseball game?

[C]

At this really nice baseball stadium. So like I said, physics is different. So there was like, this is like a multi layer stadium as far as stadium seating. It was all kind of a nice U shape around this baseball diamond and, but the, the sections floated on top of each other.

[B]

Oh, so it wasn't connected, it was just kind of.

[C]

Yes. The only thing that connected them was a, a staircase on the outside to go up to each level. So you know, you could either walk up the steps or I, I have a pretty good idea that you can just kind of think yourself up there and be there.

[B]

I was going to ask is the movement the, the travel of heaven did you see. You know, some people talk about kind of they just were gliding or floating along.

[C]

I, I got to do a couple of things, so I got to walk. We did a lot of walking and.

[B]

Walking and physically locomoting like normal?

[C]

Yes. And, but then there were times when I just kind of thought about something and, and I was there. So at one point in time and I'm kind of having to jump to the end here somewhere, but I was at I was in the throne room and Jesus wanted to show me something, so I used to play drums and I hadn't really got to play drums in a long time, but I was in the throne room and Jesus said, I've got something I want to show you. And we, we, we turned and took a couple of steps and I don't know where we, we ended up in a place that was more like a music studio. And he had this amazing set of drums there and he said, these are going to be yours.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. So now I, we just kind of suddenly were there. I don't remember like, you know, beam me up, Scotty type thing, but it was, we were just automatically there and so, and I was just with Jesus, so he got me there and. But it was like this, like I said, like I like this really amazing looking music studio. So.

[B]

And what was the, what was the point of that? What was he saying in that, basically.

[C]

You'Re going to get to play drums when you come to heaven. Show me the drums. And they were in this place that we just kind of suddenly were at.

[B]

Well, and again, I think that's, I think that's part of what people miss.

[C]

Is, is that.

[B]

You know, because one of the things I actually had a theory about is that a lot of the passions we weren't able to fulfill here, you know, maybe we will be able to fulfill them in heaven. You know, it's got that, that Psalm 37, delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I don't think that means we get everything here, but the more I hear you guys talk, the more I think maybe that's literal in heaven.

[C]

Well, you know, it's just that we are, we grow up and we're taught things and that's how we think things are. And we're, we're kind of in a little box and God's not in a box. You, there's no box that can fit God. And yeah, just get bigger than the box with, without any effort. And so we think things are the way they are, but that's only here on earth. And things are much different in heaven. And that's why I think, you know, First Corinthians 2, 9 and 10 is now my new favorite verse. And it basically is talking about how, you know, no man has seen, no ear is heard. You know, the amazing.

[B]

No, I have seen no ears heard. Yeah.

[C]

But he reveals them to those who love him through the Holy Spirit, you know, his spirit. And so I feel like the Lord Showed me a lot of stuff that, you know, most people just don't think about or. Or dream about. And, you know, I'm just. Was the fortunate, lucky person who got to see it all.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. I. I mean, it does. It does expand your. Your image, your ability to imagine what. What life on the other side will be like. Because I think we. We constrict it usually.

[C]

I think we do because we're just trying to constrict it around what we understand here on earth.

[B]

Well, and even less. I mean, I. I think I always thought, you're gonna miss all the fun things, you know, and it took me a while to go, wait a second. God created me with that ability and thought all the fun things up, so why would I.

[C]

Well, you know. And, you know, people will say, well, how can you say that there's, you know, baseball in heaven? Well, first off, I. I saw a game and, you know, but ideas, I think, come from the Lord, you know, And I. People may say you're taking this verse out of context, but, you know, it says, as on earth, as in heaven. On earth as it is in heaven. You're trying to bring heaven back down to earth is what they're trying to say. And, and so we don't know what all's in heaven, and we don't even realize that maybe Edgar Doubleday got the idea of baseball from God. You know, it came to him in a dream. Maybe he had this vision that was given to him or whoever invented basketball. They thought, hey, I got this idea, you know, and, and, and that's how those things developed.

[B]

Did you get a sense from. From Jesus? Well, we kind of skipped because I don't know when you. When you met with Jesus, but that.

[C]

Was like, the last place I went. Yeah, we've come.

[B]

But did you get it? Did you get a sense that. That he likes. Like that he likes it, that we enjoy things here on earth?

[C]

Well, yeah, I think. Well, okay, so one of the things. One of the things that was really surprising to me was Kathy had had a miscarriage at some point in time in her pregnancy after she'd been there, had been pregnant for four or five weeks, and she felt like it was going to be a little boy, and she always liked the name Daniel. You. You explain it. So. Yeah, you go ahead, Kathy.

[D]

Well, I didn't know if it was a boy or a girl because it was only four or five weeks along. And this would have been like 19 years prior to when he went to heaven. So I Named him Daniel. And when he was in heaven, he had the opportunity to meet our Daniel.

[A]

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[C]

Really? So we're walking actually on our way to the baseball game because Marzuka said, I want to take you someplace. And so we were actually heading towards baseball stadium, and this little boy comes up to me and he, he comes right up to me and, and I stop and look at him and he says, hi, my name's Daniel. I think you're my dad.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And I'm like, whoa. And because I hadn't thought anything about this for, you know, since I knew Kathy had lost the baby, you know, and, and this little boy says. I said, well, you know, Kathy was going to have a little baby, you know, but she wasn't able to have him. And we were going to name him Daniel. And he said, I've been here since I was really little, and I was. I'd been growing up with a bunch of other little babies that were here. And so my.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

All that is to say, I think that, you know, if you've lost a baby, had an abortion, you know, had a miscarriage or something, your baby is going to be in heaven and you won't be able to see that baby.

[B]

And I've heard they're, they're eager to, to meet you. And.

[C]

Well, yeah, and I told him, I said, well, you know, Kathy would love to see you because, you know, she's real pretty. And he goes, yeah, I know. I've seen her. Oh, he's. He's been able. People in heaven have some context of what's going on on earth.

[B]

Did you get a sense of how.

[C]

Much I, I know in a conversation with my dad, he said that I was lucky to be married to Kathy because she's taken really good care of me.

[B]

So. Way to go, Kathy.

[D]

I was fighting for him in the spirit and in the natural.

[C]

Yeah, so. And then I, I had made a comment to my mom about something, and she just said, yeah, I know. So. And my brother seemed to know that I was only going to be in heaven for a little bit. Okay, yes. He had made a comment to me about you're. Well, you're going to be having to leave soon, so, you know, that's for Earth time. We're kind of guesstimating. I might have been there somewhere between two and three weeks.

[B]

That's what it felt like. Like the amount of your experience felt like.

[D]

No, that's, that's how long he was in the coma. He was in the medically induced coma for three weeks, so about three weeks. Now he was on the ventilator for 45 days. He woke up while he was on the ventilator. Of course, he couldn't talk at that point. He had a tracheostomy and, you know, still couldn't talk because he's connected to the ventilator.

[C]

But my, my angel Marzuka, when we were getting ready to leave, he said, well, I got to get you back to your body soon because you're going to be waking up pretty quick and Kathy's going to be sitting there waiting for you. And so then I wake up, Kathy's sitting there waiting for me.

[B]

Interesting. So he knew. Yeah, he knew some of what was going to happen. And I, I recall, I think your brother told you Ted. Is Ted his name?

[C]

Yes, Ted.

[B]

Yeah, he told you some of the life of heaven and kind of do we have purpose, jobs, mission? What do we do?

[C]

Well, you know, I think we're going to have more to do after Jesus comes back and reigns for a thousand years because I think we're going to be, I think we're supposed to help rule and reign. Okay, so he went to baseball games. He also said he went to the Apostle Paul's Bible studies.

[B]

Really?

[C]

And I actually got to go to one. I.

[A]

What?

[C]

Yes. So it was.

[B]

So you met, you met Paul.

[C]

I didn't meet Paul. I got to see Paul. He was teaching a Bible study. Now, I don't remember or everything that was said, but I know that was Paul. And we were sitting up in kind of an amphitheater type environment and we were kind of looking down at it. Him.

[B]

So it was a big Bible study.

[C]

It was a big Bible study, but his voice carried very well, so it's not like he needed a microphone.

[B]

Oh, that's fascinating.

[C]

And, and I did get to meet Stephen the martyr. Stephen? Really? Yes, I got to meet him and I was sitting outside talking to him and the main thing that I can remember that he told me was he said, don't fear, man, just do what the Lord tells you to do. Wow.

[B]

And what, what was the Context. How did you know it was Stephen? Like, did he come up to you or.

[C]

I just, I just knew who he was. There are some things in heaven you just know.

[B]

You just, you know people by their.

[C]

Essence, something like that. I mean, I knew, I knew that was Paul. I knew that was Stephen. You know, even though my parents may have looked a little bit different, but I knew that was them.

[B]

What did they look like? How'd they look different?

[C]

Very young. I mean, they looked extremely young. They looked, they looked like. I mean, I have seen pictures of them when they were younger and like, very close to that.

[B]

Wow. So cool. Just I, I've heard it so many times, but, but still, it's just like, wow, it's going to be so great.

[C]

So one of the really amazing things that I got to see was so like I said, Marzuka took me a lot of places. And we were walking over this little ridge and when you look, got to the top and look down there was this huge complex. I'll put it, I'll put this in earth terms. It was like a huge complex with all these, you know, low level buildings are like one single story. But inside these were like huge horse stalls. And each, and there was like thousands and thousands and thousands of horses in these stalls. And each stall for each horse was about 40 by 40. And the horses were amazing. They were beautiful, solid white, muscular, very swift. And we went through, you know, went down some rows of these stalls and you know, some of the horses were, were feeding. Some of them were getting brushed out by. By angels. Some of them were pawing and snorting like they were ready to bus out and do something. And some of them were getting fitted with a light armor. And Marzin told me that these are the Lord's war horses and that they were, they were created just for, for the final battle to defeat the devil.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

He said all that to you?

[C]

He said all that to me, yes. And I said, well, what's going to happen to him after the, after the battle? And he, he said, the Lord's going to give him to people who have served him well.

[B]

Interesting. Wow. And I mean, did they look like horses like you?

[C]

Oh, yeah. See here? Oh yeah, they look beautiful. They look. They were just big and swift and muscular. I mean, they kind of pawn. Their muscles would flex and their look, you know, they were beautiful. And I got, and I got to ride one.

[B]

Oh, really?

[C]

Yes. So we.

[B]

So question.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Because, you know Jim Woodford.

[C]

Yes. I saw.

[B]

He was on your book, right?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So he saw horses in Heaven as well. And. And he talked about how when he went to pet him, it was kind of like the light. There was light off of him that kind of came with his hand and then sprung back. And I. And I wondered, like, okay, well, but are they solid? I guess they are solid because Jesus rides them, or at least well.

[C]

And I wrote, did you get any? So. So we went through this whole building looking at all these horses, and then we went out to this huge field, and there's like tens of thousands of these horses marching around. The best way I can describe it is they were doing military maneuvers with angels on them. Angels were best dressed in battle gear, and they were doing all these military maneuvers. It's the best way for me to describe them. And, wow, Jesus is actually in the very front of them, directing him on a horse. On a horse. Real.

[B]

Oh, my gosh, that's so wild.

[C]

So then. So then after we saw that for a little bit, we went back inside the stall and Marzuka said, I got. I got a treat for you. Yeah. And. And when, before we had gone out, he went and talked to one of the other angels that was brushing one of the horses. And I didn't really think anything about it, but we went. Walked back into the building, walked back to the other end of the building, and there were these two big, white, amazing horses right in front of us, and they both had saddles on them, and it was kind of big, and I was not real sure I could actually get up on it. And I said, marziga, how do I get on this thing? And he said, just think yourself onto the horse. And so I did, and next thing I know, I'm on the horse.

[B]

Okay. It's just so wild.

[C]

Believe me. Yeah, it was wild for me, too. And it's still wild for me when I'm sitting here talking about it. But then we got to go outside, and there's like this huge trail that went around this whole complex, and we got to ride the horses now, the horses. You could actually think to the horse what you wanted it to do, and it would do it.

[B]

It understood.

[C]

It understood my thoughts. Like, if I thought, let's speed up, you know, it would speed up. If I thought, turn left, it would turn left. If I said, thought, slow down, it would slow down.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Now, everybody else I spoke to, I. I spoke real words to everybody. I didn't do any telepathy or anything like that.

[B]

But you were using your. Using your mouth, even with Marzuka.

[C]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

Oh, interesting, because I would have thought it was because that telepathy isn't the right word. Because what I've heard many times is more than just thoughts. It's a complete communication.

[C]

Yeah, but how did God create the Earth? He spoke.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He spoke words into existence.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And he spoke, he spoke things into existence with his words. So in heaven, words are still very important. They're still very much used. And case in point, my, My dad's a, Was a wood carver. After he retired, he was, he had carved his whole life, but when he passed away and got to go to heaven, he was carving a lot more. And so you saw that. I saw that because I was actually in a room in his house or his mansion, whatever you want to refer to it as.

[B]

Oh, it was a house. Like, like here?

[C]

Well, yes, except bigger and fancier and a lot nicer, really. He had this, he had this carving room that he'd had all these carvings that he had created, and he was working on something. He goes, you know, he said, if I make a mistake, all I have to do is speak to my mistake and it will correct itself.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

I've won.

[B]

I've always wondered about that.

[C]

So, because, you know, faith, Faith has no restrictions on, on. In heaven. You know, here we struggle to have faith, to do something, and because we're always under attack or we're distracted or whatever, you don't have that problem with faith in heaven because you just speak it when we. One of the places I went to in heaven was this big mountain range that Marzuka and I climbed up. And I just said, well, hey, you know, I'm surprised there's no snow here because we're, we lived in Colorado for 10 years, so I was used to seeing snow on mountain peaks. And I said, because you were that.

[B]

High up, like, would have been.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, we were probably high enough to. There should have been snow. And I said, well, I'm surprised there's no snow here. And he goes, well, if you want snow, you just speak it out.

[B]

And really. And did you?

[C]

No, I, Because I told him, I said, you know, I don't, I don't like snow. I don't really want to see snow.

[B]

You had to live in it.

[C]

But I had to live in it and shovel my driveway out of 5ft of snow a couple of times every winter. So I know.

[B]

I, I, when we moved from Chicago five years, I swore I would never, ever shovel a driveway again. And two years ago, we had Snowmageddon in Austin, and we had a foot of snow in my driveway. And I was like, okay, I'll never say never again.

[C]

Well, yeah, so I think Marzuka knew that I probably didn't want it, but I didn't want it because, like I said, we'd lived in Colorado, and I said, no, thanks. I'll just leave it the way it is.

[B]

Well, you know, go ahead, Kathy.

[D]

And we talk about faith. And I know this is the fun part, what he's saying, but keep in mind, I didn't know that any of this was happening. I was just going through hell on earth when he was put on the ventilator on December 14th of 2021. And I knew I could not go in and see him. I. I mean, I wanted to just crumple to the floor in a pile of mush. And I was about to say out of my mouth, oh, my God, I don't know what to do. But before I could get those words out, the Holy Spirit said to me, you know what to do? And I. And I paused and I thought, yeah, I do, because God's word is true. His word works every time. So I got to work and I made a document with four pages of healing scriptures. I had the nurse, whichever nurse happened to be on, take his phone, which was in his room, so I had him keep it charged and do a FaceTime. So I literally had to look at my husband in a coma on a ventilator. But I began to speak those scriptures over him for 12 hours every single day and praying those scriptures and. And just speaking them out, even though I got bad report after bad report after bad report. And I understand those reports, what the labs mean, and I understand what the ventilator settings mean because I am a physician. So, you know, it wasn't like I could just be blissfully ignorant. I wasn't. I knew how bad it was. He had a very slim chance of survival and all the complications that we went through time after time, you know, he would just do a little bit better and then, bam, he would plummet. He'd get another pneumonia and another pneumonia and kidney failure and, you know, withdrawal from drugs, and it was just horrible. So if it. In. In this earth, we have got to believe God's word. We have got faith. And. And one of my new favorite scriptures is 2nd Corinthians 4, 17 and 18, that tells us that our light and momentary affliction. And you go, oh, this is light and momentary. Wow. But keep in mind it's momentary because the next verse says that we are to look at the un while we look not at the Things which are seen, but at the things which are unseen because the things which are seen are temporary. But the unseen, which is what he was experiencing, are eternal. God is eternal. And we have to learn to look with the eyes of our sanctified imagination. Because I had to see him home. I had to see him driving his car again. I had to see him doing all the normal things again and not in a coffin, which is what the enemy wanted me to think. So every those bad thoughts came to me, I would have to cast them down just like word tells us. Casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ bringing in into captivity everything to the. Okay, yeah, every thought to control my thoughts, I had to speak God's word no matter how I felt. And sometimes I would just feel like I couldn't go on. I felt like I was being squished in a, you know, a trash compactor and it was going like this because it wasn't only I had a lot of peripheral things that happened during this time too that would just add to the, the horrible stress and everything. So I was being squished. But as I would begin to speak God's word after I would get through about a page and a half of those healing scriptures, I would begin to feel the presence of the Lord and I would. And to get my perspective back that this is temporary. It doesn't matter how bad it is, it's temporary. And what I could see by the eye of faith was eternal and he was getting better in coming home. And so that's kind of the message on this side of the veil, that we need to be able to see the unseen realm and receive miracles from God.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And I know I, I got a early copy of you guys book and, and was able to skim through and read it and you, it's great you put a lot of that in there as well because I think, I think this together does just that it helps people as we're going through all of this and it's, it doesn't feel temporary and it feels like sometimes you're not going to make it, you know, but I think you're right, you know, and, and what Steve is sharing helps us set our minds like Colossians 3 says, set our minds on things above where our life is hidden with Christ in the heavenlies, you know, not on things of the earth because they're passing away.

[C]

Well, even when I came back for, you know, woke up from my coma and was experiencing all the things on earth I had to start using, you know, Kathy. When I was out of it, Kathy could pray and I would be quiet and I wouldn't, I wouldn't. She didn't have to worry about what I was thinking or, you know, or my faith, because she was praying for both of us, basically. But when I woke up, I had to start doing things for me on my own. Like I had to learn how to walk again, had to learn how to chew food again. I had to learn how to be determined to, to get back to doing the things that I wanted to do. Yes, she was, she was seeing me do those things, but I had to see myself doing those things too. And it was a lot of work. I mean, I spent a couple of years rehabbing and getting in shape. I mean, I'm, I'm doing pretty good now, but, you know, that was just like. I didn't just get out of the hospital and walk out, man, I was right. It was a lot of work.

[D]

Well, it's definitely a fight of faith, you know, and, and I mentioned earlier that I was sending the angels to his room because I couldn't be there. So I was sending his protection. Psalm 91. He gives his angels charge over us to keep us in all our ways. And so when I would do that, you know, I, I, I, I, I would, I believe that that was what was happening and God was protecting him. One time, though, I was on the phone with my dear friend Marilyn, who lives on the other side of the world. It was like 12 hours difference, and she and her husb friends. So I would be up praying and it's, you know, day here and night there. And so we had these shifts of prayer. And so Marilyn and I were praying on the, on the phone, and all of a sudden she said, and she didn't know that I had been praying and sending the angels every day, but she said, kathy, I. The Lord is showing me, I see it. I'm in his room. He's showing me what I see Steve in the bed. I see the ventilator, I see the monitors, I see all this equipment. I see him on the ventilator. And there are angels all over this room, and there are huge angels at the door, and they will not let anything evil come in this room. And when she said that, I was like, wow.

[C]

It worked.

[D]

I didn't tell you that, but that's what I've been doing. I've been sending those angels to protect him, and that's what they were there doing. And so our prayers avail much, even though you don't see it. See, I pray and I have to walk by faith. He sees things even now he's seen Marzuka since he's been back. So, I mean, I, I don't necessarily see things like, yeah, me either, but I have to go on. I always say, well, blessed is the one who doesn't see and still believes. Right?

[B]

That's our verse. That's my verse. Let me see. He sometimes reminds me like, no, you're wrong. I am. I'm letting you see through the research gift I've given you through all these people's stories. But, you know, that's great news because there are a hundred warrior angels surrounding my two little granddaughters because I prayed for that this morning. So that's awesome.

[D]

Yes, definitely. You know, in our, our daughter, we have a. Well, our daughter, she's grown up now, but when she was little she could see in the spirit as well, our younger daughter. And one time we were actually in a restaurant and she. There was a thunderstorm and the lights flash on and off and then she's about, I don't know, five, six, seven. She said to me, mom, I see angels everywhere. And she said, I see them behind every single person. So there were eight of us at our table and around, behind each of us was an angel. And she started to describe them. Some had swords, some had bow and arrow, and they were all like at the ready angels behind every single person. Customers, waitresses, everyone in that, that restaurant. But all the other angels, except for the ones around our table had their hands behind their back and they didn't have the weapons.

[B]

So what do you think that means?

[D]

Interesting. Well, we were all born again at our table serving God. And I think that if you're not serving the Lord, you know, your angels are, are somewhat hindered in being able.

[B]

To help you because they're trying, but, yeah, able to.

[D]

But our angels were all ready. And so, you know, just to say that she sees things as well, you know, and it, there is a whole realm that we can't contact with our physical senses, but we do have the ability and the authority through Jesus to affect that unseen realm.

[B]

Yeah, well, and I think that is. And many, many of you who have had near death experiences have testified to that, that on the other side you saw that the prayers made here have effect there. And God does dispatch angels. They are, they are his ministers. And it does have effect. I know it's really bolstered my prayer life, you know, maybe because I just have a bad imagination, but it's probably why I need to hear. So hear them over and over again. I'm slow.

[D]

Well, you know, I think prayer is so important, and I don't know that we give enough importance to prayer and to praying.

[B]

Well, we think it's not doing anything well. Right. I'm wasting my time. And that's just the opposite.

[D]

Yeah, that's what the enemy wants you to think. Think. But that's right after, you know, after my mom went to heaven in 2018, you know, I, I, I got more serious about really being reg. You know, just have a really good prayer time every day. But it's hard to pray in the living room, you know, it's kind of hard. It's distractions and things like that. So I had put all my mom's stuff in boxes and stuck it in a room at the top of the stairs and shut the door and because I, I, I just, just, I had a hard time praying with the distractions in the middle of the house. You know, I said, lord, do I need to go to the prayer tower or what do I need to do here? So the Holy Spirit said, well, you have that room upstairs. You know, you, you could use that. And I thought, no, I got all those boxes there. I don't want to deal with all that stuff from my parents. And, and, and then the Lord said, well, you could clean it out. I didn't want to, but I was obedient, and I did. That was a couple of years before he ended up in the hospital. And so I had my prayer room already established. I had it all set up, and I used it every single day. And, you know, people have rooms in their house to put a big screen theater in and rec room and all kind of stuff that make no eternal difference for anything. Why don't we have prayer rooms in our. And if it's a closet area, a corner of a room, we need to have a place that we can go and meet God and know, because I get to the last few steps going upstairs, and there would be this excitement that would come over me in spite of what I was dealing with here, that I'm going to meet God and I'm going to be in that room and I'm going to absolutely hear from him today, you know, because we, we need that. We need to be able to focus. We're too distracted with everything.

[B]

Yeah, well, that's so good.

[C]

One thing about you wondering if your prayers are doing any good. So I was a bit surprised to see my dad because I wasn't sure, wasn't sure, because I never really was. I didn't know what is. He's. He hadn't. Most of his life. He didn't go to church. He started going to church with my mom towards the end of his life, but I didn't know if it was more so just because she didn't want to go by herself or if he was actually going, because he. So he. I was talking to him, and he said, you know, I'm so glad people didn't quit praying for me. He said, I know there may not have been much of a change on the outside, but my heart is what changed. And so. Really? Yeah. So he told me that. And so we can't give up on our prayers, because the deal is God doesn't want. It's his will that everybody would be saved. And so we have to pray that we have to pray. Lord, I know it's your will for him to be saved. Bible also says that he has the king's heart in his hand and he can change it any way he wants to. So I just kind of lower that down to somebody in my family or saying, lord, I know you've got their heart in your hand and you can move any way you want to, and I know you want them to be saved. So, Lord, that's what I'm asking you to do. I want you. I want them to be saved, and I'm asking you to move their heart in that direction, you know, so, yeah, you know, we may not see anything, but we don't know what's going on on the inside. And that's what God looks at. God looks.

[B]

Right.

[C]

God looks at the heart.

[B]

Well, that's a great reminder, too, that, you know, we don't know, but we don't need to know. We need to do our part. Right. We pray for people, we tell them how much God loves them, what Jesus has done to make a way, you know, that we don't. We don't have to earn our way there. We don't have to play a good religious game. We don't even have to sit in church every Sunday. There's. There's good reason to. I led a church for many, many years, but that's not what does it. It's the heart. It's a heart given to. Given to God.

[C]

Right?

[B]

So speaking of, let's wrap up our time hearing about your encounter with Jesus.

[C]

Okay. So the last place I got to go to in heaven was actually going into the throne room. And the building into the throne room is pretty amazing. It's got, it's actually the building I saw and I can only tell you what I saw, but it had the creation, God's creation. It was like carved into the side of this throne room. It had great things on earth. It had animals on earth that had scenes from space in it. And it was just really amazing. I mean, you could look at it and knew what you were looking at. And so then we go into these, these doors automatically open. It was like, it was kind of like, you know, you go to the grocery store and boom, the doors open. Except in heaven they just sense that you're coming and they open up. So. And we walked into this big kind of archway. It was probably 30 or 40ft long. I can't. It's distance is a little tough to, you know, gauge and heaven some. But it was, you know, a number of steps in there and it was arched and it had all these just amazing. You know, the, the floor was like, was gold, except it was like a clear gold. You can, you can like almost see through it. And, and then we got into the throne room. The throne room was, you know, you saw, you saw this stage that had like seven steps leading up to it and there were two thrones. And behind the thrones were, was like a huge rainbow. And then there was thunder and lightning. And then off to the, to my right, which would have been God's left, what it was, I saw the, the Ark of the Covenant and I saw the menorah and, and they were up on the stage with the Lord. And then the, like I said, there's like thunder and lightning and I saw Jesus sitting on the right hand side of the, of the Father. But the, the throne that had God on it was, it was just bright light. I. I couldn't make out a figure, but it was just light, light, just. And it was not, it was not painful to look at it. I mean, it was bright, but it didn't hurt my eyes and I didn't feel like I had to, you know, squint or anything like that. So kind of two things happened when that I'll. I'll tell you about real quick. So we walked in and we walk in a couple of feet and then Marzuka, the angel kind of bows, kneels down on one knee, bows his head, but he pushes me forward. He puts his hand on the middle of my back and pushes me on forward. So I, I walked up closer to the throne. And then Jesus comes down off the throne, comes down the steps and comes right to me and he says, I have A couple of things I want to show you. So, one with these two pictures that Jesus that we had talked about earlier. He showed me a picture of my body laying on the ground, and I was. It was kind of a grayscale picture. There wasn't any color to it.

[D]

It.

[C]

And so I'm not looking very good. Okay. It's hard to look good in grayscale, you know. He said, this is you, but you're going to be just fine. And then he showed me the next picture, and he said, this was a color picture. It was a nice color. I had color in my cheeks. I looked a lot better, but it's still the same. Same position. And he said, this is you, but you're going to be just fine. He said, because you're healed. Now. I was wearing. There's a color picture, so it looks like I've got on, like, red and white striped pajamas is kind of the best way I can describe these. And he said, you're going to be just fine because you're healed by my stripes and my righteousness. So I'm healed by his blood, and I'm healed by his righteousness. And so then he gave me.

[B]

And that was the stripe, the white and the red.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

So it was. He was showing you the significance, that he's the one who's healing you.

[C]

Yes. And so, you know, so then he gave me this big hug. He told me he loved me. I told him I loved him. And it was like the most amazing hug you could ever imagine. Because first off, you're in the throne room, you feel peace, you feel security, you feel protection. There's, like, nothing going to bother you. In fact, you really pretty much feel that way anywhere in heaven. It's just like the most amazing place that you feel protected at. But in the throne room is even more so because Jesus and the Father are both in there. And, you know, nothing's gonna. Nothing's gonna bother you, and you just build love and protection. And so then he told me that he said, you saw my war horses? And I said, yes, Lord, I saw your war horses. And he said. He said, they're preparing for battle. And I said, so when's this going to happen? And he just said, very soon. Okay, now I got the sense very soon, as is a lot sooner than most people want to think. It's really soon. But, you know, really, I'm not. I'm not going to put a date on anything, but you can look at the. You know, they're supposed to know the season, supposed to Know the time and season. And so, you know, so we have to look at what's going on in the world and seeing what, what, what's. Where are we going? What's the direction we're heading here. So, yeah, that's. We just have to be aware. I mean, you know, Jesus was talking to. Talking to him and said, hey, you know, you can tell what the weather's going to be like by the sun in the morning and all this kind of stuff. And he said, but you need to.

[B]

Know what's going on now and tell when summer's coming. When the. When the fig tree blossoms.

[C]

Yep. So we need to be able to tell what the season of the earth is in, not just whether it's seasons, winter or summer, but, you know, the, the time that we're in.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so then, you know, right after. Then he told me, looked right at my eyes, but looked right in my eyes, put his hands on my shoulder, and he says, I got work for you to do when you get back, and I'll tell you what it is at the right time. And. And then right after that is when he showed me my drums. And then right after that was, I was back in the throne room, walking out with Marzuka.

[B]

I. That's just so amazing. I was a drummer. I taught my son drums.

[C]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

But I actually want to be able to sing. I could never sing, you know.

[C]

Yeah, well, okay, let me tell you just a quick thing. So, Marzuka, we were listening to this choir. My. My mom had told me when I talked to her, she said, oh, your. Your grandmother and I are in one of the. One of the choirs, you know. And I kind of thought, wow, I don't ever recall mom and grandma being able to sing all that well. And so we're. Barzukin and I are walking and he said. He said, this is the choir that your. Your mother and grandmother are in. And I'm sitting here listening, trying to find a bad note somewhere. Just all beautiful. It was just a beautiful sound. And I thought, wow, they can sing in heaven. So know, hey, there's hope for you. Really?

[B]

Well, good. That's good to know.

[C]

So. So when we were leaving the throne.

[B]

Room, well, first, what did G. What did Jesus look like? Everybody wants to know.

[C]

Well, when I saw him, he looked like he was about six one, maybe six two, a little tall, had kind of long hair, little, you know, just kind of touching his shoulders, parted in the middle, had a neatly trimmed beard, had on a white robe with a purple sash going across his chest. He had deep, deep blue eyes. Now somebody was saying one time that, well, he was Middle Eastern, you know, he's, he's in a Middle Eastern country, so most people there have brown eyes. But then somebody also said they were doing some research and that he was from the tribe of Judah. And it's not uncommon for people in the tribe of Judah to have blue eyes.

[B]

That's what I wrote in Imagine Heaven because of how many of you had said he had either either blue or blue, green or blue green that almost goes to a yellow, kind of like alive. The color alive in a way that. And so I, you know, I, I've wondered about that. But yeah, even, even Heidi, who I told you about, the 16 year old girl who also saw Andromeda. Well, she was Jewish and she believed in God, she prayed to God, even though her dad had always told her Jesus is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind. But she meets Jesus when she died and she knew he was the God she had always prayed to, even though she wasn't allowed to use his name. And of course it makes sense because there's only one God and he has revealed himself in Jesus. And so she, but she said, I never told this part because I know I'm Jewish and Jews have brown eyes, but his eyes were blue, were like a blue green. And so, you know, of course she loves Jesus and follows him today. All these people, all these people do. I don't see how you couldn't. That's the thing that blows my mind.

[C]

Well, let me tell you this one last thing. So when Marzuka and I were leaving the throne room, we'd walked outside and I said, so tell me, Marzuka, how come you knelt down but you pushed me forward? And he said, because the Lord is my master, I serve him. He said, you are family, you don't have to crawl to God, you can go right up to him. So the Word says that we can go boldly before the throne of God. God. And so he's just basically telling me, you can go boldly up to the father. You can go, wow. Because he's like you said, I serve him. He's my master, I have to bow down to him. And he goes, I choose to. Because your family, see now you wouldn't make your kids crawl to you to come sit on your lap.

[B]

Wow. It just shows you. It just shows you what the Lord has done for us, doesn't it? That's amazing.

[C]

Yes. You know.

[B]

Yeah, we wouldn't. How true. And how true.

[C]

His Word is exactly you know, it's, it's, it, you know, the Word is alive and well and, and you know, we read these, we read the Word and sometimes we just don't, we don't see the depth in it sometimes. But yeah, we're, we're, we can go boldly before him because we are his sons, we are his daughters. We are, you know, we may be adopted, but hey, he loves us just like we're the real deal, you know, drafted in. So, you know, I mean there's so many things about the Bible that just are, see so more alive for me now just because I've had my experience and oh, I imagine and you know, so when I share these things I'm just like, oh, this is what it really means, you know, and it's hard.

[B]

Not to get excited about it, isn't it? Because it's going to be the best, the best thing ever. Well, you guys tell us when's your book coming out? And I've. I've Been to Heaven is the name of it. It's up behind you there.

[C]

Yeah, it's, it's I've Been to Heaven and it is coming out October 14th. It's for sale on a lot of your favorite places to buy books.

[B]

It's on, it's already, already out there available.

[C]

Yes, it's, it's on Amazon. It's on the Baker Publishing place. It's on Goodreads. It's on, on our website is steveandkathyb.com and that's Kathy with a K. And there's a products page. It's got our book and then it's got about seven or eight or nine links that you can click on to go buy it at your favorite book place.

[B]

Okay, well great. Well that's one of the most fabulous, I don't know what better word like just awe inspiring near death experiences and just stories as well of you know, what, what you had going on, Kathy back, you know, fighting and praying and really suffering while Steve is having this incredible. You ever got get him back for that? You know, like, look what you put me through.

[D]

I wanted to call the book Joy in Heaven and Hell on Earth. Yeah, go for it. But really that's what it was because as much joy as he had and you know, one interesting thing, Ephesians 3:20 is absolutely true. God can do exceedingly, abundantly. Above all we ask or think because when Steve was, was doing so poorly in the hospital, I was praying and asking Jesus to walk into that hospital room and have an encounter with Steve and heal him. And that was my highest and best imagination, would be that Jesus himself would walk in the hospital and room and Steve would see him and then he would be healed. Well, God did something way better than that.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Him where he is.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

All the way to the throne room and gave him an incredible tour of heaven, you know, with Marzuka as his guide. So we are. We do not realize how much God wants to do for us when we pray in faith, when we trust him, when we just believe what his word says. Don't pray out of your head and make things up. Read the Word and see what it says and then pray according to what it says.

[B]

Yeah. So good. Well, you guys, thank you so much for taking the time to be to let me interview you today. It was such a pleasure.

[C]

Well, thank you so much for inviting us on. And like I said, I get kind of excited sometimes, so if I rambled too much. Yeah, sorry.

[B]

No, it's awesome.

[C]

We love the opportunity, so thank you. Awesome.

[B]

Well, thank you.

[C]

All right. Thank you.

[B]

Oh, well, wasn't that wild? I mean, heaven is going to be so much better than you can imagine, than I can imagine. And I've done a lot of imagination. Imagining it is really going to be amazing. And more importantly, it reminds us that this world is temporary. It's temporal. You know, all of the trials, all the suffering you have to endure, all the challenges are temporary. And, you know, just like Jesus said in Matthew 19, there's nothing that you give up in this life that you're going to miss if you follow the Lord. Lord, you know, he said, if you follow me, there's nothing you're going to leave behind here that you're not going to get even better and more of in the life to come. And I know that probably stretches some of your, you know, imaginations when it comes to heaven, but God's a creator of every good thing we've ever enjoyed or experienced. And so he wants us to live for him and for eternity. So I hope this blessed you in helping you do that a little better. And until next time, God's blessings.

[C]

Don'T.