← Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Wealthy Pilot Dies From Opioid Overdose, Sees Hell & Heaven
01:16:39
Jim Woodford was agnostic yet had a surprising, detailed near death experience and saw the book of his life. He was a successful Canadian businessman and airline pilot. He had built a comfortable life, never prayed, and saw no reason to believe in...
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- [00:00]
A
Did you know there is a book being written in heaven about your life? Well, Jim Woodford was a commercial airline pilot, a very wealthy businessman from Canada who didn't believe any of that. He said he had no need for God. He had never prayed a day in his life until he had an opioid overdose and knew he was dying. Well, Kathy, my wife and I both interviewed Jim for my book, Imagine the God of Heaven. So you'll get to hear from both of us today and hear how Jim caught a glimpse, first of hell, then the city of heaven, and also of this book recording his life. And he met a God that he thought was just a legend, but discovered that God is so good, he longs to give us the desires of our hearts even when we don't deserve it. Well, I hope you'll stay tuned to the end because I'm going to unpack all of that and how it relates to your life as well. Well, I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times best selling book Imagine Heaven and this is the Imagine Heaven podcast. Jim, you died. How long were you dead? Do you have any evidence of this?
- [01:13]
B
I do. The reason I call this an unexpected Journey is because due to an illness that I contracted for which I tried to find a cure and there was none. It was Guillain Barre and it advanced to a point where there were complications. And I died in my truck in a field that I owned, facing the setting sun. And we settled on 11 hours, because that encompasses the time from the time I went missing to the time my wife Lorraine had called the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and they triangulated my cell phone and found me. And that was part of the journey.
- [02:03]
A
So 11 hours that you were dead.
- [02:06]
B
Yeah. And how we correlated, that was. I wanted to be able to prove definitively that that the event had happened. And so that encompasses the time from when I went missing to the time that I was found, taken as a DOA to the hospital and where even if you arrive, they triage you. And then of course, my wife and family came.
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A
But you arrived dead on arrival to the hospital.
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B
Yes.
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A
So go back now. You were a commercial airline pilot for how many years?
- [02:44]
B
I was a pilot all my life. Commercial pilot. And had attained senior ATR ratings and flew all over the world, visited 52 countries. Very technically oriented and a skeptic if I couldn't read it in an owner's manual. Now, of course I realize the Bible is our soul's owner manual, but that's
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A
not where you were at that time.
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B
No, it Was not.
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A
So describe your condition of life and your spiritual condition.
- [03:14]
B
I was raised Catholic. I mean, I had a. My dad died when I was 2. But I had a good life growing up in the northern part of Canada, in northeastern part of Canada, specifically Newfoundland and Labrador, and grew up because my dad died when I was 2. We lived with my grandparents, my mom and I and my brother, and had a great childhood growing up. We were so far back in the woods, John, we had to come out to hunt. But you know, a classic. I was a happy child. And of course, as I got older, I missed my dad. But my grandfather was a great role model. So I had a good childhood.
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A
So fast forward to right before this happened. Tell us about what were you thinking about God, about life, what was going on?
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B
Well, you would think, you know, considering I spent a good part of my life at over 30,000ft, that I would have considered God more. I was raised Catholic, but I got away from it. And I guess the best way to put it, I wasn't agnostic, but I just never sought it, didn't think I needed it. And I was very successful in my career and a sideline of businesses that I opened. And my nickname was Diamond Jim. Everything I touched turned to diamonds. Like.
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A
What do you mean?
- [04:43]
B
Well, I survived a number of near misses incidents which is not unusual. Starting out flying in the bush, I was lucky. I straddled both generations of flying. I grew up in the bush and flew bush and water bombed to flying large jets and throughout the world. But I'm a technical person and if I couldn't see it, I didn't believe it. I suppose like all of us, we hope that someone is in charge of the chaos. But I never looked for it. And ironically, when I met my wife, who was deeply spiritual and I have no idea what she saw in me, maybe a lost cause. And she prayed for me. And interestingly enough, I found out after my incident that Lorraine had been praying that God would break Jim to remake him. Because I became a guy that all I wanted was things. And I was very successful at making money. And I had a fleet of British sports cars and a large boat and horses, Arabian horses and all the things that would be the quintessential American Canadian dream. And yet in the darkness of the night, there was a yearning in me. And foolishly I would interpret that as meaning I needed a newer Jaguar or a faster plane. I think if we are all honest with each other, we all have that yearning. And I now know what that yearning is. It is your soul Wanting to connect back from whence it came.
- [06:19]
A
So take us up to what led to that night in the truck.
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B
Well, I contracted a disease, Guillain Barre. And very quickly, the disease destroys the myelin sheath on your brain stem, and all the signals from your brain are pain. And I became paralyzed and very, very ill. Unable to. I went literally in weeks to a guy that flew jets and rode horses and did all the fun things in life, raced fast cars to someone that couldn't even care for himself. My wife's a registered nurse. And you would have thought in that moment, I would have looked up and said, God, if you're there, I could use some help. Not me. Arrogance. The arrogance of success. And I always fix things, but I couldn't fix this. And so it got progressively worse. But I managed to get through and released from the hospital, but with tremendous pain. I was using a walker, and I tried everything I could, find specialists and so on. And finally, a specialist recommended me for a clinical trial program with an experimental drug from Europe. And we had permission to bring it into Canada because it was experimental. And I had to sign all the waivers because it was not a proven therapy. And I did. And to my amazement, John, I began to sleep at least three or four hours a night. And, you know, I'm not talking about inconvenient pain. I kept a leather strap by my bed to bite on, to keep screaming, keep from screaming out and waking my
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A
family from the Guillain Barre. Yeah, the pain. Because it's every nerve going off, isn't it?
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B
And I have a lot of people now that reach out to me that have this terrible disease because I know what they're going through. I understand now the slippery slope of addiction. I mean, as a captain, as a pilot, I never drank. I never took drugs. I avoided all that. I loved my career, and I never needed it. But I know now that I've found that if I took a little more of the drug, I felt a lot better. And that's the slippery slope of addiction. My heart goes out to anyone, whether it's opioids or some other addiction. I just wanted relief from the pain. The pain consumes you, and the drugs stopped the consuming of the pain. And I was getting to the point, and I knew in my heart of hearts I shouldn't be doing this. And I was hiding from my wife the fact that I was taking this extra medication. But it was such a relief to get relief.
- [09:10]
A
So take us to that night in the truck.
- [09:13]
B
I had pretty much retired from flying. I was doing Some charter work, but. But the day when my license was taken away because I failed the medical because of Guillain Barre, it was as though someone had cut out my heart with a spoon. It was awful. But. So I was downsizing and selling my businesses, and I had a piece of land that I wanted to sell. And the surveyors called and said, you have to go and approve where the markers are that we put in. So I carefully. Because I didn't drive much, it was all back roads. I went up to this pasture that I owned, and I parked facing the setting sun. I didn't plan it, John, but the sun was setting. It was a beautiful evening in April of 2014. And I sat there in the truck, trying to get up the courage to get out and painfully walk around this large field. And I reached in the glove compartment and I'd stashed some medication in there. And I'd already taken at least three times what I should have that day. But I thought if I could just get around this field. So I took the medication and I sat back in the truck, just waiting for that wonderful, warm relief from the constant pain. But instead, for the first time, my feet felt as though they were on fire. I remember actually looking underneath the dash of the truck and to find what's the source of this heat. And that heat traveled rapidly up my legs and inboard from my fingertips and culminated in my chest. And it was as though the cab of the truck was filling with water. And I had to raise my head. Of course, what was happening was my lungs were becoming paralyzed. And as I raised my head, you know when you've done something catastrophic, you know when you're dying. And I had never prayed and never asked God. Too arrogant. But from somewhere inside of me that I hadn't been to in a long, long time, something welled out of me. There are six words and the prayers of my family that allow me to be here today with you. And the first three. As I knew I was dying, I raised my hand to the setting sun, and it was shaking violently as death set in. And I cried out, God forgive me. Because in that nanosecond of death, in that nanosecond of death, I realized all that I had been given, all I had been blessed with. And I had never once thanked the Creator because I couldn't find proof of his existence. I couldn't find the technical manual of God. And I fell forward and hit my head on the steering wheel. And I'm gone. I remember sitting back up, and I knew time had Passed, because now the setting sun is right on the horizon. But suddenly I came to the realization I could move and I didn't seem to have any pain. And finally I got it right. You have to take the whole bottle. And I slide out of the truck. I walk about 15ft away, and John, it's as though I've taken off a heavy, wet overcoat and the pain has gone with it. And I am elated. And it's an evening in spring. I could smell the grass. I can hear the birds and the trees. I can see the sun's rays on the horizon. And I'm pain free.
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A
At this point, you don't know you're dead.
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B
Here's the good part. And I'm just astounded. I did look down and I thought, well, that's odd. I can see through my feet. I can see the ground. I used to get the outline of my feet, but I could see through it. But then I just slowly turned to the truck and I'm filled with outrage because some son of a gun is in my truck. Not only that, he has the audacity to sleep on my steering wheel. So I turn to go over there and confront him. The moment of realization, John, that the. The body sloped over that steering wheel in that truck is me, was beyond astounding. But of course, the old Diamond Jim kicked in. If I could just get over the truck, get back to my body, everything would be okay. Not this time. Not this time. And suddenly I began to rise. I'm floating gently backwards. As a pilot, I'm a good judge of altitude. I get to between 12, 1500ft. I look up at the sky and I'm terrified. I mean, I'm flying, but I have no aircraft. Finally, I'm saving on fuel. I look up, there's this beautiful golden ring, like a giant wedding ring appears in the sky, about 60ft in diameter, the center filled with gold, and it's swung inward like a circular door. And suddenly, as though I had hit all the engine throttles on a jet, I went zipping into this tunnel of light. And I mean, I'm trying to rationalize what is happening, what is going on. Now, I think, unless you live under a rock in a cave, everyone's heard the term tunnel of light. And that's what I saw. And the inside of it was lit beautifully. There were clouds inside the tunnel, and yet I could sense and see the stars streaming by me as though I was going at tremendous speed. And I remember trying to explain that to people. And one night I was describing it in Baltimore and there was a young guy in the front pew and he said, hey, Jim, sounds like the opening of Star Trek to me. And that's what it was when they hit warp speed and the stars go by you, and tremendous speed. And I've flown a lot of fast aircraft and driven a lot of fast cars, but no sensation of wind. You can't feel the wind and no noise. Absolute silence. My body's canted back about 45 degrees and I'm rushing through this tunnel of light, terrified. In the distance, there's an even brighter gold. And as I came to it, I began to decelerate. I came upwards and I'm facing. I still don't know whether to call it a door or a portal. It's covered in mist, but I know I have no choice but to step through because the tunne is closing behind me. And I step through this tunnel because I can't see because of the mist, but I put my foot on something solid, I brought my other foot in and I'm through the portal. The tunnel closes behind me and all of a sudden the mist clears and, John, I'm looking down on the most incredibly beautiful green grass you could ever imagine. Every blade perfectly formed and light coming from every blade of grass. Now, I don't want that to sound too Las Vegasy. It was just a gentle light. And as I shifted my weight, the ripple. The grass rippled underneath my feet with light. And then the mist began to clear and I look up and I'm facing slightly to the right. And the most magnificent beauteous fields of flowers and colors that don't even have names on earth, all lit by this glow from out of everything, the rocks, the trees, the flowers themselves, and a beautiful sky, But a sky. And being a pilot, the first thing I did was try to orient myself by looking for the sun. There was no sun in the sky, but it was this beautiful cerulean blue and like on the far horizon, a sunset, but no sun.
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A
And did you know that in the Bible it talks about how there's no sun or moon in heaven?
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B
The glory of God is the light had no clue. Yeah, no clue. But I'm trying to orient myself and I've since found out, of course, that there is no sun, nor moon, nor stars. And then I turn my gaze toward the left and the most incredible dichotomy, because it was like a dividing line. And that beauteous scene, that beautiful scene turned. The grass turned from green to brown to black to scorched and Dropped off in a deep crevasse. And the crevasse seemed to be made of shiny anthracite or coal. Now, I've always been inquisitive, and people say, why did you even go near? Wasn't a time for discussion. I couldn't reconcile how could you have this so beautiful and this so horrible? And I gently edged my way over and leaned and looked down. And it was as though I could see a distant red. What looked like a campfire in a distant valley in a forest. But I realized it wasn't a campfire because it started to get larger. And as I watched down in this crevasse, I heard something. And it was the sound of two large doors that had not been oiled in a long time being forced open like the gates of a castle. And they were screeching because they were just rusty or something. And to my amazement, the light grew brighter. So I could see the light was reddish coming out of this doorway because it's dark, but it's midnight, but black. But the light came out. And then. And I know this sounds like a bad movie, but my God, this exists. And we talk about heaven as real, but so is hell.
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A
Is that what you were seeing?
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B
No, what I saw was this creature shuffle out. And it was big and it shuffled out. It was squat with a large head. I couldn't see its face at that time. It was as though it was sniffing for something. It was searching. And I guess I gasped because along with the looking at this creature, there was a smell of death and decay that came out of the pit that made me retch. And the creature heard that. And it was a smell, John, of I've come to call it the smell of despair. And suddenly it swung its ugly head around and looked up at me. And I mean, Hollywood could not reproduce this thing. And its eyes were red and it focused on me and it intensely looked at me. And I felt the hatred not just for me, but for all of mankind. And then for a creature so huge and ungainly, it very quickly made its way up the walls of that pit. And I fell back in fear and horror at this thing. And it raised up out of that pit over me. And I'm stunned looking at this thing. It's strange. You know how your memory works? What I recall most was that it was so huge that when it opens its mouth, I remember the sound of its saliva slapping on the ground. It's saliva. And then I heard something else. I heard screaming. It was coming from the creature, but not of the Creature. It was as if this thing had consumed souls. And the souls were within its body and they were crying for release. They were crying for help. And then the next thing paralyzed me with fear because it spoke to me. I heard its voice and I heard. And if a serpent could speak, John. If a serpent could speak. That's what it was like, this creature. It called me by name. It knew me. It knew me. How could this be? I wasn't that bad a person. I gave to charity. If I got a tax receipt, that's not kindness. That's business. And all the resources I had. And now I am. My whole existence is culminating with this creature coming for me. And it said to me, jim, Jim, we are here for you. This is your time with us. Come to us, Jim. Join us. I believe with all my heart, had I stepped toward it, I would have been taken. But instead, I turned, remember? And I've raised both hands toward the blue sky that was on the other side. And I cried out the next three of the six words. Remember? The first three were God, forgive me. I cried out, God, help me. Help me. I who should expect nothing because I gave him nothing. I gave him nothing. Why should he help me? Because he's the God of never too late. If you are contrite. If you are contrite, you can't fake it. You can't fake it. He made your heart. He knows it. But I called out to him. And instantly three points of light, like distant stars in that blue sky started converging toward one point in front of me. And I concentrated on that to keep my sanity. Because now this thing is behind me. And then I felt a claw break down my back as it kept enticing me. Jim, come with us. We are here for you, Jim. This is your time with us. And John, to keep my sanity, I concentrated on that. And that beautiful light merged. The three lights merged together and created one large light. That light washed over me, and I turned to see it strike and hit the creature. And when it did, the creature shrieked and screamed and scrambled back in that hole. And like a rat running for cover. Darkness and evil cannot exist in the light of God. And if God's light is in us, it cannot touch us. And that is the central core of why I wander the world telling people about this. I look, John, and these three magnificent beings are coming toward me. And I mean, I may not have gone to church, but everyone's gotten a Christmas card with an angel on it. I knew what it was. I was raised Catholic. Very tall, luminous, Creatures beautiful in every way. I don't struggle to describe them, I just get overcome every time I think about them. But if you can imagine these beings, the first one about 10ft tall, the next one about 13ft tall, and coming before wearing the garb of a warrior, was a 15 foot tall angel. Imagine this incredible luminous face covered in light. And the incredible thing that I remember most were their eyes. John, Their eyes were violet. So imagine the stature of a creature 15 foot tall. So the eyes are huge, but the most magnificent shade of violet. And they came toward me and just there was such a sense of peace. And the first one who I later found out had been my guardian angel since my birth, since my conception. And I felt the arm go around my shoulder and then a wing came out and it hugged me to its chest. Oh, what a feeling to be hugged by an angel. And then released it. And he went to join the other three and they both glided up to me in unison. And then John, they did the most incredible thing. They bowed to me. And it wasn't a bow of just of welcome or respect, it was a bow of reverence. And they bowed very deeply and I felt quite uncomfortable. And my first words to them were, why do you bow to me? I felt, you know, you are angels, why do you bow to me? And the answer of the guardian was incredible. He said, james, do you not know that when we bow to you, we bow to the light of our master that is in with all of humanity,
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A
the light of God in each person.
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B
That's the image, the image of God, Of God. It's not a visual countenance, it's the light of God. And that's what I try to explain to people. The light of God is within you. And then the tall angel came forward and said, would you walk with us? And I turned and with the tall guardian behind and, and a guardian on either side, we walked down this beautiful 10 to 12 foot wide path lined with flowers of colors that I'd never seen. And I've been in 52 countries and flowers that sing to you, John. There was a melody that came up, the tinkling of bells, but it had a melody. And in heaven, color is sound and sound is color. So the notes come up in a pink mist and it all goes off to the horizon that was brightly lit because that's the throne room of God.
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A
And you know, I would not have believed any of that except I've heard so many of you even talk about the flowers and melodies coming out and the singing.
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B
It's Interesting. You know, I have people say, well, you know, I heard similar things. Well, I hope so. God didn't create heaven just for me, but there are variations. And I think what happens is God knows us each so intimately. He tailors our experience to. To the life we had on Earth. And so for me, the next thing that happened was they wanted me to see the holy city. And so he asked me to touch his cloak. And we rise up. And I thought I was looking at a large reflecting pool, but it opened up and I'm looking down on the holy city and the halls, and all the time they're telling me things, and before I can even ask a question, they're answering me. I don't want to describe it as telepathy. It was as though they were in my mind and I was in theirs and we were one. And it was so beautiful. And so they gave me an aerial view of heaven, I suppose, because I was a pilot and I've gone into holding patterns over cities for half an hour, you get a good chance to look at it. And so I'm looking at the Halls of Knowledge, the Halls of Learning, the Halls of Music, but one building just stunned me. It was so beautiful. The buildings are very magnificent and not unlike the Parthenon, but they're hewn from blocks of light, not stone. So anyway. And I said, what is that building? Because there was a large green space around it. And he said, that, James, is the nursery. And I said, nursery in heaven? Yes, James, this is where the souls of aborted children or children who die of disease or issues at birth. God loves their light and he brings it back, and they're raised in the nursery. And I don't have time to go into how they're raised and so on, but how beautiful that Jesus loves us like that. So as we resumed the walking, we came back down and resumed the walking and. And we came to a split rail fence like you'd see on any farm here or around America or Canada. And again, God tailors the experience to your earthly life. And I've always loved horses. I grew up with them. My grandfather logged with horses. So I've been around horses since I was a baby. And as we speak, we have horses at home. And the Guardian said, james, look. And he made a motion, and behind a group of trees and came three of the most magnificent horses I'd ever seen. And they trotted up to the gate, and the grass lit up as they ran across. It was incredibly beautiful. And of course, I'd never read the Bible. So I didn't know that when Jesus comes back, he'll be riding a white horse, but leading these three horses because there was a palomino and a bay. They came right up to the gate and they stood there and looked at me, and it was as if they were thanking me for loving their kind on earth. And I couldn't resist. I put my hand through to stroke its silken body, and it was a being of light. And when I pulled my hand back, the light of its body clung to my hand until I got it about 10 inches away and then let go and went back into the body of the horse. And that's what I call the sticky love of God. God's love wants to cling to you. God does everything he can to delight us. And he realizes that it's such a tremendous event for us who are mere humans, to suddenly be in his paradise. And so I firmly believe this. He tailors our heavenly experience at our first time in heaven with things that we knew and make us feel at home. For instance, when the angel hugged me when I first met the angels, and the arm came around my shoulder and. And then the wing pulled me in, and this incredible feeling of. It was like putting your finger in a light socket. But it felt good. This vibration went through me. And people have said to me, as I go around and talk about this, Jim, what's it like to be hugged by an angel of God? And how do you possibly explain that? Because there's nothing on earth like it. But I did find something. And what I came up with was I remembered my grandmother, and I said, being hugged by an angel of God is like being hugged by 50 grandmothers at once. And while they hugged me, I smelled tapioca. Tapioca. Now, I am not here to start the Church of the Holy Tapioca. I'm not. But God is so gentle with us. He remembered that when I was a little boy in northern Newfoundland, beating my way home through a snowstorm in the middle of June, I'd go to my grandmother's home and there'd be a big, warm bowl of tapioca for me. And since I've been telling. This is funny, since I've been telling this about the tapioca in heaven, I have gallons of tapioca shipped to me. If I'm not careful, I'll weigh 400 pounds. But it's an example. And for others, it might be the smell of their mom's kitchen, the smell of their dad's garage or the barn, or, you know, it's something to make us feel at home. And as I'm standing there, I look up in the sky of heaven and I see these brilliant streaks of light arcing or going straight up. And I looked and I, you know, we've all seen contrails on earth, and I've lost millions of miles of contrails, but behind me in the jets, I
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A
mean, like the jet streams you see in the sky.
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B
And I said to the Guardian, I said, what are those? And he said, those, James, are the prayers of your family for your soul. The prayers of your family for your soul. I found out later that when Lorraine called her sisters and said that I was deceased, they gathered immediately at our home and in our kitchen, put their arms around each other and prayed. And their prayer was that if it be the will of. If it be the. Sorry, if it be the will of Jesus, to send Jim back. And I said, what are these? And the guardian said, those, James, are the prayers of your family for your soul, even now going toward God's throne.
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A
And you told me there were six of them standing there praying.
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B
Six praying and there were six lights, contrails in the sky. Yeah, he saw the tears in my eyes. My family's praying for me. And he said, james, sadly, mankind is losing the will to pray. He said, you forefathers, when they were finished their day's work in the fields or in the factories after dinner, they had what used to be called eventide, and they would read the Bible or pray as a family. And he said, sadly, they are losing that. And he said, with all your technology of instantaneous gratification, you can call anywhere in the world and speak face to face with anyone. And that is a wonderful achievement of the intelligence that God gave you. But sadly, now, and I'm guilty of this, he said, now, when mankind gets a few spare minutes at the end of a busy day, what do they do? Check Facebook, text, Instagram, and there's nothing wrong with that. But remember this, that when you have those rare moments of peace in our busy life, that's God giving you a little time. He wants you to sit and talk to him, listen for the sound of God's voice, and hear him say to you, be at peace, my son, my daughter, I am with you always.
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A
And the angel is telling. The guardian angel is telling you all this.
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B
Yes, my guardian. My guardian. Now, that poor angel had pulled an awful tour of duty, but that angel seemed pretty proud that I was there at last.
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A
It was, yeah, I think you beat the thief on the cross for last minute.
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B
And that's who I identify with in the Bible. People ask me, who do I identify. It's the thief on the cross at the last moment. And so the angel said the importance of prayer and that it's so important that every prayer you've ever issued, ever thought, ever contemplated, is recorded in heaven. And it's not to create an I got you moment. What it's for is that when you have your life review, when you cross through the veil and you have your life review, it's to help you understand why you made the decisions you did and, and the consequences of that on your life and on others. And it's not a judgment. It's not a judgment. It's just to help you understand the life you led on earth. As I said, I'm looking down on all these magnificent buildings, the halls of knowledge, the halls of music, the halls of learning.
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A
And this is inside the city walls. Are you seeing a walled city?
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B
Yeah, and there's walls. And by the way, and I'm no theologian, and I'm sure people could argue this point with me, paradise is referred to in heaven as outside the gates of heaven, the beautiful countryside outside the walls of the city, outside the walls, yeah. And heaven is God's home.
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A
So is this the new Jerusalem?
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B
I don't know. I wish I did. And I'm. But I'm sure theologians would argue with me, but that's. I'm only telling you what I saw. But incredible beauty. And so it was. I remember it and it becomes so vivid, it overwhelms me. And I've told this a thousand times, two thousand.
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A
So talk about seeing that one hall of knowledge and what he told you about it.
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B
The hall of knowledge is the repository of all the books of our lives. And it's also where you can go to study the mysteries of God. And I remember saying, well, is that like a university degree? And he kind of looked down at me with those beautiful violet eyes and I said, and how much time would that be in Earth years to learn these seven levels of knowledge? And he said, that would be 7,000 of your Earth years to learn all the mysteries of God. And even then there are some you will never know.
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A
And you said that God records our every prayer and our every deed.
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B
Yes, talk about that. Yeah, he records our every prayer. Even when you say, God, why is my neighbor mowing the lawn at 4 o' clock in the morning? They record that. It sounds ludicrous, but they're serious about these things.
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A
Why, why record it?
- [39:47]
B
I think it's because they want you to have total understanding. When you get there, you get this incredible knowledge. You realize how little you knew before because suddenly you understand everything. You understand the cosmos, you understand how the universes work, you understand God's true role in creation. And you just have this infinite knowledge. And all these things they show you is to clarify so that you can have all the knowledge you require once you begin your new life in heaven. Heaven is huge. And I say to people, to understand what I'm trying to get across to you, you have to forget all the physics and theory that you've learned in high school and university. Because spatial references, time, gravity, they exist there, but they're different. And so you have to take that, for instance. As a pilot, I'm used to looking at the horizon and notice the spherical change. And that's why contrails here always look like they're going this way. In heaven, they go straight up because there's no horizon, it's infinity. And I was just so taken with the technology of heaven and how beautiful it was. And so, yeah, it was really something. That's amazing. So curious, when you're up looking down at the holy city, are you still holding the angel's robe? Are you? I was, yeah. And he had moved and had me by the arm and we were both above and we were doing this aerial tour of heaven. When you were in heaven or looking upon heaven, when did you experience the light of God? Did you see God? I saw Jesus. Tell us about that. I came back, actually, I came back down and we were standing right where the horses were and I just. And I was just trying to, you know, absorb everything I'd just been shown. And the angels seemed to me delighted. They had these smiles on their faces, if you enjoyed that, didn't you? But I realized I hadn't seen the tall angel in a while. And so I turned to look and just to my right, about 15ft away, 15 yards away, there was a gentle slope. And I noticed the tall angel was over there. But now he was facing someone. And the tall angel was bowing very low and he was facing this other tall, commanding figure that I had not seen before. I couldn't see the face as I looked over there because just as you drive down a warm, hot road here and you have the shimmer off the pavement, the face, the profile was covered with that. But there was something different about this figure because it was as though this golden liquid light. It was light, but it flowed like water, Gentle, slow moving water. And I watched in fascination as this golden light flowed down all sides of this magnificent figure. And he was leaning forward intently. And the guardian was holding up a book, a small book. And this figure was reading. And as I watched that golden light came down that slope toward me. And it was about that time that I had this feeling of remorse because I realized that what the guardian was holding up was the book of my life. You did mention one of the guardian's names. Yes, and you mentioned it as you were telling the story. So go back a little bit and share with us how you knew his name. As we walked along, part of the conversation was I said. And he said, I have been with you since your conception. And that I was the 2034th soul he had protected. And I said, may I ask your name? And he kind of looked away. And I felt I transgressed on some. You know, I wasn't polite. And I said, you know how I'm sorry, I seem to have made you uncomfortable. And he said the most wonderful thing. He said, james, he said, we are reluctant to tell our names because knowing my name will give you power over me. He said, just as our master, when he would cast out devils, always asked the name of the demon. But he said, I shall tell you my name because of the uniqueness of your experience. And he said, when we are assigned at your conception, we are given an idea of the trajectory of your life. And I knew you would become a pilot. Yet God. So God knows the trajectory of your life, but he gives you free will. You have the ability to change it. But he said, I knew that one day, over dark oceans, I would be sitting in the cockpit behind you. And he said, on those quiet nights with nothing but the dark ocean below and the stars above, and you would sing. And so I chose the name Sky Song. And then as I'm watching this light and as it flowed down, something unique happened. And I'm detail oriented. The flowers that were already in bloom when that golden light flowed over it, they bloomed again, even more beautiful than before. And Kathy, when that light pooled around my feet, suddenly this knowledge of who I was looking at, the shimmer on the face vanished. And I'm looking none other than Jesus Christ, the son of God. Someone that I thought was just a Jewish legend, just a fairy tale. And here I am looking at this magnificent being. And I realized then that what the angel was holding up was the book of my life. And I'm ashamed to say that instead of with all the resources and the wealth that I had and all the kindnesses, I could have done. And instead I was focused on a life of luxury and just the accumulation of wealth. I should have. And there's the book of my life and it's no bigger than a cheap roadside diner menu and, you know, a couple of pages. And I should have had a book as thick as a Bible. And. As the great author Charles Dickens said, mankind should have been my business. And I was just so self consumed and I was overwhelmed with sadness and shame. And as I'm crying, the guardian that's holding the book for Jesus to read turned his face toward me, focused those violet eyes on me and I heard his voice. And he had a very deep voice, the angel. And the angel said, james, what did you do with the life my master gave you? I had no answer. I have no answer except remorse and sorrow. And then Jesus straightened up and the guardian folded the book, put it in his sleeve and disappeared. And then, and I'm on my knees, Jesus turned toward me and he smiled at me. He smiled at me and Kathy, when I looked into those eyes of gray, green, blue, I saw such sadness for the way I had lived my life. Such sadness for the way mankind has disregarded his Father's message. But I also saw love for me and forgiveness. And in his eyes, I saw my tomorrow and I was forgiven. And it was at that moment that I stopped becoming the hard nosed diamond gem pilot that I was. From that moment forward, whatever happened, I was his. That was my moment of redemption. Well, that's beautiful. It's like you look into his eyes, you didn't know how to answer the guardian, right? But then Jesus turns to you and you know, for a split second when he smiled at me and I realized he loved me and I loved him for a split second. And my intellect knew better, but it felt like I was the only one that he had ever created. You know, there was that instant connection and you'll all go through that. You are his child. You are his child. And the love in his eyes, and also in those eyes. And I want people to understand this. In those eyes I saw not just kindness and love and forgiveness, but laughter. This is a Jesus that wants us to be happy. And we're now with him. There's no reason to be anything other than happy. And I just. And that's why I'm so happy. You've been around me for a few days. I'm always happy. I'm the happiest guy you'll ever meet. Because dying and seeing what lies beyond the coal grave, if you live a life worthy of it. I have no fear of death. I can't wait to go back. I can't precipitate it. But by God, I'll tell you something. I live my life now every day with as much kindness and smiles for people. Because when I go back this time, the book of my life is going to be so thick, Jesus will need two angels and a forklift to open it. Here's a mental image. Jesus on a forklift. But my point is, I've been given this rarest of second chances, and this time I'm doing it right. So as he looked at me and smiled, I had to get closer. And I started to crawl toward him through that light. And suddenly he gently. But it was quick. He raised his right hand and there was no mistaking. It was a command to stop. And I hesitated, but tried to go forward again. And he raised his hand even higher and his sleeve fell back. And right there in the wrist was the remains of the crucifixion. And Kathy. When I saw that, I felt as though I had held a hammer and driven the nails. I was the representative of mankind who murdered him. And I felt so overcome with grief that my race, my humanity, killed him. God sent us his only son, and we murdered him. And I could see the glow of his body through the hole in his wrist. But there was such kindness in his face. And he smiled again at me. And so I tried to go closer. And then Jesus spoke to me. And this is the. This is what the whole experience is about. And he looked deep into my eyes and smiled. And I was transfixed. And with his hand raised, he said these words to me. James, my son, this is not yet your time. Go back and tell your brothers and sisters of the wonders we have shown you. And then his hand slowly descended and closed over his left. And then the full enormity of what had just been said sunk in. I was being. I had come home for the first time in my life. I wandered the world looking for home. And for the first time, I felt at home. And now I was being sent back. And I began to beg. I began to plead. I began to cry, please don't send me back, Jesus. Please. This is what I've yearned for all my life. I am so sorry that I didn't recognize it sooner. Let me stay. And I actually said this. I said, please, Jesus, let me stay. I won't be any trouble to the Son of God. And he smiled even more. He may have laughed, but I was desperate. And suddenly, two guardians are beside Me. They lift me up and turn me, and I don't give up easy. And I struggle to get free, to plead with Jesus one more time. And I managed to wrench around and over and look back. And Jesus had gone. But exactly where Jesus had stood. Kathy, in the exact spot was The Warrior Angel. 15ft tall, 6 foot wingspan, 12ft, all together. And he began to rise in all his glory, in gold and splendor. And he spread his wings. And of course the message was the way forward for me was closed. And I begged, I said, please don't send me back. And then those violent eyes looked at me. And his head was over on one side like this. And I could tell he was sad. And then the most beautiful thing, a violet teardrop fell from his right eye onto his robe. The angel was crying for me. And suddenly I'm in a black tunnel. It's cold, it's wet. It's not pretty like it was when I came up. I shouldn't say this, but honestly, I feel like I was flushed. There was water running. And they told me later that my wife was in the quiet room with the family. And the doctor had told her there was no hope. There had been no brain sign. And that's the sign, and that's what they look for, for the sign of life. And there was no brain sign for a long period of time. And so Lorraine was in the quiet room with her sisters and planning the funeral arrangements. And suddenly a nurse ran in and said, lorraine, come quickly, come quickly. Jim has opened his eyes. And Lorraine came running in and she climbed up on the bed and I look into her pretty face. And of course I've got a trach and tubes coming out of everywhere. And Kathy, of all the things I could have said to Lorraine, I said. I looked into her pretty face. I said, lorraine, Lorraine, I saw Jesus. And Jesus has horses. And I'm back. And I'm back, Kathy. Completely healed of the disease that killed me. Over the next three, my organs all started to work again. I went from being the color of mottled purple to a healthy pink. And they tested my spinal fluid. The markers for the Guillain Barre were still there, but no symptoms of the disease. I mean, I was, and I'm still free of it. So a true miracle. You know, one thing you said when you're talking about what Jesus said to you. Yeah. And I know a little more of your story in that there's a lot of significance when he called you his son. Could you. Could you share a little bit? Yeah. And I've actually had some people say to me, but Jim, he didn't say very much to you. He said everything. James. He knew my name. Jesus Christ knew me. He knew me. Kathy. My son. He called me my son. My dad died when I was two and here's Jesus calling me my son. This is not yet your time. Well, that implies to me not yet. That if I live a life worthy, I take nothing for granted, there will come a time when I'll be back with them again. So not yet your time. Go and tell which is what I'm doing with the help of Gateway Church. Go and tell your brothers and sisters of the wonders we have shown you. And here we are.
- [58:18]
A
Oh man, there's so much we could explore in that. But today I want to focus on how God gives you the desires of, of your heart, how good God is. Because you know, people don't imagine God that way. I think that's why they run away from him. And I also want to explore this book of your life because you see, relationship with God is a gift, but how you live on earth really does matter and it's even being recorded. So if you've ever dreamt of having a biography about your life, well, guess what, it's being written right now. So good to find out about it. You know, I always joke with Jim, I think you beat the thief on the cross for last minute and he laughs and says, like what he did that that's who he identifies with. And if you've never read that, you know, Luke records what happens when Jesus was crucified. Luke was a doctor and a historian who interviewed many eyewitnesses of the life of Jesus. And he tells us that Jesus hung between two criminals. And it says in Luke 23, one of the criminals hanging beside him scoffed, so you're the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving yourself and us too while you're at it. But the other criminal protested, don't you fear God even when you've been sentenced to die? We deserve to die for our crimes, but this man Jesus hasn't done anything wrong. And then he said, jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied, I assure you today you will be with me in paradise. Wow. I mean, you see this contrast? One of the criminals demands of God. I'm not going to believe unless you prove yourself to me. No response. See, God doesn't respond to our self righteous demands. What he responds to is a humble heart that's truly seeking and that gets him every time. So the second criminal Just admits his wrong. You know, we deserve this. And notice this second criminal. He doesn't say a certain prayer. He doesn't have time to get baptized. He doesn't go do good deeds to make up for all his wrongs. Time's up. But just like Jim, all he does is put his trust, his faith. Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. That's all he says, just remember me. It's a simple, humble, contrite attitude. And that's all God needs. And Jesus says, today you'll be with me in paradise. Now if you've heard some of the other interviews I've done or read some of my books, you know, Jim and other near death experiencers talk about. Paradise is actually what the inhabitants of heaven call this beautiful part of nature outside of the city of God. And it's where people first land when they come in to acclimate to heaven before they enter the city. So what we see here is that relationship with God, an entrance into heaven that's a gift from God. Jim didn't deserve it. He didn't earn it. Neither did the thief, and neither do you or I. We don't have to earn it. We just accept it or we reject it. It's that simple. Jesus explained it this way in John chapter three. He said, for this is how God loved the world. He gave his one and only Son so that everyone who believes or trusts in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through Him. There is no judgment against anyone who believes or trusts in Him. See, there's no judgment. There's nothing to fear because God loves you like his only child. You know, Jim and many others feel that in his presence. So you don't have to earn God's love. He already has it for you. So much so that Jesus came and died on the cross to pay God's price of justice so that you and I could be freely forgiven. If we simply turn back to God. If we want that we can be made right with God forever. And heaven then is a gift. It's the most amazing thing. It's why we call it Amazing Grace, because it is amazing and it's free. But not only that. God is so good. He knows the desires of your heart and he longs to give you those desires one day. Isn't that incredible to think about? You know, so many people have this bizarro idea that God is mean or he wants to take away good things from you. He wants to make you his slave or his robot or you know, if you, if you surrender your life to him, he's going to ruin your life. And it is such a lie. Now I get it. Because I used to think the exact same thing. It's why I ran from God for so many years. But then I started to really think about it and realize, look, if God is the all powerful creator and he wants to ruin my life and make me his slave or make me miserable, does he really need my permission to do that? Of course not. So why is he waiting if that's what he wants? But instead, no. He waits for our willingness, for our permission to come and lead and, and guide our lives in his love. Because love is why he waits. See, he loves you and love always respects the free will of the other. That's the heart and the character of God. He wants to lead and guide willing children in love. He doesn't want slaves. You know what will enslave you is believing lies and running away from God. That'll enslave you to all kinds of, of things. Trying to prove yourself to the world. It'll enslave you to envy or lust or jealousy or alcohol or sex, drugs, fear, anger, bitterness, worry, anxiety, hatred. I mean, I could go on and on, right? Run away from God. There are so many things trying to enslave you. God actually wants to set you free. And God is so much better than most of us. Picture, you know, Jesus even promises, or I'm sorry, in the Psalms it promises that, it says, take delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires, your heart's desires or the desires of your heart. Commit everything you do to the Lord, trust Him and he will help you. That's exactly what Jim discovered, though he didn't deserve it. Now what does this mean though? Because you know, I don't think this means you say, okay, God, I delight in you. Now I desire a Ferrari and, and like a mansion in Santa Barbara and a mega yacht out front like the oligarchs have. I don't think that's what this means at all. See, in, in, in this life, when we commit all we do to God, when we trust him, when, when we start to realize he is our delight because he's the source of everything we love, then he will give us good things, but he won't give us things that will ruin us. And just like Jim confessed, unfortunately many times, you know, God does bless us with wealth and with resources, but unfortunately, self centered human nature tends to say, I don't need God. Look what I've done for myself. Interestingly, go read Deuteronomy 8. God warns of this. He wants to. He delights in blessing us, but he also worries that we're going to think it's all about us and forget the. The source of it all. So God doesn't give us everything we want all the time in this life. Just like I don't give my granddaughters everything they want all the time. You know, all the sweets and sugar and ice cream they desire because it wouldn't be good for them. And the problem is they're just not mature enough to handle it yet. But one day they will be. And hopefully one day we can be spiritually mature enough for God to give us all the good things he wants to give us as well. But here's an interesting thing. I've also heard from so many near death experiencers how they talk about that God does give us our heart's desires in the life to come. And they got a glimpse of that. Because in the life to come, self is not ruling only those who have let God be the ruler. And in heaven, God's love truly does rule. So it's safe to give us the desires of our hearts and have it not corrupt us. And this is what Jim discovers. You know, this angel, his guardian, hugs him and he smells tapioca because God knew that would bring a feeling of home. Taps his robe and the angel gives him a flyover of the holy city. And this is so fascinating because Captain Dale Black, who I interviewed, also a commercial airline pilot, got the same thing because God knew that would be a desire they would love. Jim sees horses because he loved horses. And all because God delights to give us things that would make us happy. He wants us happy when we're fully aligned to his will. Now again, that doesn't mean life always goes easy. That's not, that's not it. But the heart of God is that he wants to meet the desires of your heart. Some of those desires may go unmet in this life and you know, even maybe because you're putting God first. But here's the promise, you're going to experience them. And probably something even so much better in the life to come. That's what near death experiencers consistently say. Consistently say, you know, I've. I've heard people in heaven talking about seeing people painting like they'd only hope for. Singing, composing music like they'd only hoped they could do on earth. Exploring underwater worlds without scuba gear, even flying the galaxies. I mean God is so good you can't outdo God. That's what you have to understand. You can give God every second of your whole life and you won't be able to out give God. You will always end up saying I got way more than than I gave. And Jesus promised this. Near death experiencers confirm it. You know, Jesus once said if you sinful people, in other words, you're corrupted by evil. And yet you know how to give good gifts to your children. Don't you want to give good things to them? How much more will your heavenly Father give good gifts to those who ask him? And this is what Jim experiences, the goodness of God. And then he sees his guardian angel holding up the book of his life before Jesus. Now did you catch also that the angel pointed out the halls of knowledge and where he said that every prayer, every thought, every deed is recorded in the books that are found in the halls of knowledge. Now many near death experiencers I've interviewed here in the US and you can read about them in my books. Also in India and around the world, they have seen and witnessed these books of heaven. In fact, in Imagine Heaven I write about an Indian several Indian patients said. The Indian patient seemed to die. After some time he regained consciousness. He then told us that he was taken away by messengers in white clothing and brought up to a beautiful place. There he saw a man in white with a book, with an account book. So again and again these books of accounts are witnessed and testified to by near death experiencers. So what are these books? Well, interestingly, Moses spoke of God recording the written record of his life. The Jewish prophet and king, King David writes this in the Psalms. You saw me before I was born. Every day I of my life was recorded in your book. Now there appear to be two types of books that the scriptures talk about the book of Life. Jesus says in Revelation 3, 5, I will, I will never erase their names from the book of life. But I will announce before my Father and his angels that they are mine. So the book of life is a record of those who belong to God, those who turn back to God and in faith and call in his name and want what Jesus did on the cross to count for for them. That's, that's all it takes. Just like Jim or the thief. And our names are written in the book of life never to be erased again. And that's only because Jesus paid the full price to pay for our sins, past, present, even our future ones. Okay, but they're also these book of deeds of each life now, you know, some people mistakenly think it doesn't matter how you live in this life. And that's, that's a, you know, accusation against Christians sometimes. Oh, Christians think, you know, oh, they're saved. So doesn't matter how they live. Well, that's totally wrong. In fact, in Revelation 20, it talks about these other books. Says, I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God's throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. Okay, so the Book of Life is the names of all who belong to God and enter heaven. And those who aren't in the Book of Life are. They've chosen a life apart from God and God gives it to them. But these other books record all the thoughts and prayers and motives and deeds. So if your name is written in the Book of Life, your, your sins are washed clean. They're erased. But what's in these other books are your good deeds. And that's why Jim's book was so thin. You know, he cried out to God at the last second for forgiveness. God gave him forgiveness, but there were, there were no deeds really done to please God or to serve humanity. And that's why Jim said, you know, next time they're going to need a forklift to carry my Book of Deeds, you know, because he, he's like, I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to change that. Well, what is this, this book of our lives, and why are we judged by it if we're being forgiven? Well, first, what's interesting is this book is actually what contains these life reviews that so many, many near death experiencers talk about. So it's a different kind of book. In fact, Greg Rickert, who I interviewed, told me that he's standing there before Jesus and the angels, and there was this large book in front of this portal, and they opened the book and he realized it was the book of his life. And out of the book, the words came to life like a hologram playing out the scenes of his life. So it's playing out this life review. And in this case, it's not judgment like we think of the word judgment. It's really reward. So the word used for judgment here is bima. In, in Greek, the bema was the place where the judges in the ancient Olympics would give rewards to the runners. So this bema judgment is really a reward ceremony for the inhabitants of Heaven. You know, it's really what, what counted in this life, what lasted into eternity and what you'll be rewarded for. And that's really a lot of what my new book, Imagine youe Purpose From Heaven, is all about. So I'm not going to go deep into that. I'll save it for when it comes out in the fall. But the bottom line is this. God looks at the heart, at the motives, everything done with the motive of honoring and loving God by serving and caring for his creation, which includes the planet, includes the animals, but especially the people. That all counts. And see, that's, that's really good news because it means everyone's life can count. In fact, those who seem to be the least in this life can, can actually find their lives were the greatest in the life to come. Because it turns out that the little simple unseen acts of kindness count just as much and sometimes even more than the huge achievements. You know, as the Apostle Paul summarized well in Galatians, what is important is faith or trust in God, expressing itself in love, faith, working in love, that means that all you do can matter when it's done in the motive of trusting God and loving God and loving others. And you will experience the reward not only in this life, but even more with every desire that you've ever had and then some in the life to come. So live your life all out for God to love and serve God and others. And one day your angel too will need a forklift to lift your book. Well, I hope this has helped you in understanding God, the Bible, near death experiencers and all that. But most of all, I hope it helps you live your full potential that God created you for. And if it is helping you, you know, share these episodes with family and friends and subscribe and like it, that helps the algorithm send it to more and more people so that more and more can hear of the way God feels about them as well. Well, until next time, be blessed.