← Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Imagine Heaven Podcast with John Burke
Will My Pet Be in Heaven? What Near Death Experiences Reveal
00:48:11
Will your beloved pet be in heaven? Many wonder if animals have souls and if they’ll be reunited with their furry companions in the afterlife. Some say animals don’t have souls, but what do Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) and the Bible reveal? If...
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- [00:01]
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- [01:01]
John Burke
Will there be animals in heaven? You know, after studying close to 1,500 cases of near death experience, the most asked question I get is, will my pet be in heaven? Who cares about aunts and uncles and all those other people? Just will my pet be there? Well, stick around to the end to find out. I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times best seller Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven. And this is the Imagine Heaven podcast.
- [01:33]
Dean Braxton
I think what got me there were so many creatures that I never knew that existed.
- [01:38]
Jim Woodford
Beau t ball fish, different kinds of aquatic life and all of that. And the life, you know, whatever, crabs, fish or whatever, they were moving and doing their thing.
- [01:48]
Yin
This right, like broke through that dark abyss. Broke right through, like just tore open right above me. I really believe it was Jesus. I couldn't see anything, but what I saw was a horse.
- [02:03]
John Burke
What animals or creatures will be in heaven, if any. And will our pets be there? You know, some say no, they won't. Others say yes. What's the truth and why is this such a big deal? You know, because it is a big deal to a lot of people, I found. Well, I guess it kind of makes sense. I mean we, we love our pets, we get attached to our pets. You know, I think about tj, our family dog that the kids, my, my kids grew up with. TJ died just a few years ago. And you know, it was, it was, it was hard because for 17 years he was our dog and everybody was attached to him. You know, the, the kids got him when they were very little. They even named him. We, we asked him, you know, what, what do you want to name his cute little puppy? What do you want to name him? Which you got to be Careful asking children to name things. And we should have thought about it, knowing my daughter wanted to name her younger brother trombone. And she was very upset that we decided to name him Justin. Trombone would have been up there competing with Elon, some of the names he's given his kids. Right. But we went with Justin and we should have known. When we ask if you want to name the dog, she did not like the name Jimmy, which is the name that the SPCA had given our dog. But she was okay with Timmy and Justin. My son wanted Jimmy. Really like Jimmy. We didn't like either because we were like, we don't want to name a dog the names of our friends kids. Right. So we compromised. Timmy, Jimmy is the dog's name, or TJ for short. So TJ is who my kids grew up with 17 years, loved by all of us. You know, in his last years, I would. I would carry him down the stairs at night and in the morning because he couldn't even walk down the stairs to get in the backyard to go to the bathroom. But he was a great dog and we loved him. Will we ever see him again?
- [04:10]
Gary Wood
Or.
- [04:11]
John Burke
Or was TJ just a gift from God for this time on the earth? That's what I want to take a look at because I think the question actually gets at some of the character of God. What's God like? And also, what is heaven actually? What. What is it really? We're going to look at what near death experiencers have commonly said and how it aligns or doesn't with the Bible. I also am going to talk about why some theologians say, sorry, animals don't have souls, so your pets won't be in heaven. But let's just start at the start first, will there be any animals in heaven? I want you to listen to what Dean Braxton discovered that actually changed his belief system. You know, Dean was a Christian at the time that he died of sepsis for an hour and 45 minutes and then was resuscitated. At the time, he told me he didn't think there would be animals in heaven. But listen to what he discovered.
- [05:08]
Dean Braxton
There was animals, peoples, everything you would have here on the planet in the sense of, of life. You know, it's just that everything was alive, there was nothing dead and everything was intelligent. It was past anything that I would believe that it would be like. I think what got me there were so many creatures that I never knew that existed. I came back driven to look up in like, mostly underwater shows, you know, those type of things to see if I Could see some of the creatures that they would see down in the deep that were there in heaven. I remember the first year or year and a half that that was a driven for me to try to find as many of those planet, those animals on this planet that were there in heaven, but they were more beautiful than you can imagine. There's no decay, there's no fear there. So if there was something that you were fearful on the planet with, you wouldn't be fearful of it, you know. So in describing there's bears there, there's lions there, there's sheep there, everything you could think that's on this planet is there too.
- [06:09]
John Burke
I mean, think about this. God is very creative, right? I mean on planet Earth our scientists think they're probably 7 million species of, of creature and created, you know, animal and all that. And I mean we, we haven't discovered all of them yet. There are all kinds of creatures and interestingly Dean Saul animals that he knew here on earth, but he also saw creatures that looked really different. He said, kind of like when you see those deep sea underwater films of these just kind of bizarre looking creatures, he said that's what he was looking at in heaven. So God is incredibly creative. And there are all kinds of animals and creatures according to the Bible and according to near death experiencers. Now what we miss is that heaven is actually life continued on. It's, it's not life to death, it's life to life, but new life, life without disease and decay and the defects of our broken sin stained world. And that's a part of, you know, the, the message of scripture. You know, the Bible tells us that our turning away from God has affected all of, of the creation. But before the fall, before humans rebelled and turned against God, it says this in Genesis chapter one says God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, small animals able to produce offspring of the same kind. And God saw it was good. See when God created the animals, this is before the fall, this is before death, before sin and death. He sees the animals he created and he says it's good. He created it good. And because this is before death entered the picture, then apparently he created them to last. So if that's the case, death now affects everything on earth for a time. But why wouldn't animals live on past death if people do? And I think the Bible indicates this. In fact, in the Old Testament, in the book of second Kings, we see the, the prophet Elisha is being attacked and his servant is terrified. But Elisha's calm. And Elisha knows that God is protecting him, protecting them in the unseen realm. So look at what he asks. He says, don't be afraid. The prophet Elijah answered, those who are with us are more than those who are with them. And then Elisha prayed, open his eyes, Lord, so that he may see. And then the Lord opened the servant's eyes and he looked and he saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around. I know it sounds. Sounds weird, but stick with me because what we see is both the prophet Elisha and also another prophet named Elijah. Confusing, I know, but in the same in second Kings book, they see horses in the unseen realm. Is that true? Are there horses in the unseen realm? Well, listen as. As Jim Woodford, a commercial airline pilot I interviewed who had never read the Bible before he had his near death experience. He'd never even prayed. And if you watch some of the earlier episodes, I had some of Jim's story. As he was dying, he cries out to God for forgiveness. And listen as he describes the undeserved love and goodness that God shows toward him as he gets to see the animals he loves the most.
- [09:59]
Gary Wood
We came back down and resumed the walking and we came to a split rail fence like you'd see on any farm, you know, here or around America. Again, God tailors the experience to your earthly life. And I've always loved horses. I grew up with them. My grandfather logged with horses. So I've been around horses since I was a baby. And as we speak, we have horses at home. And the guardian said, james, look. And he made a motion. And behind a group of trees came three of the most magnificent horses I'd ever seen. And they trotted up to the gate and the grass lit up as they ran across. It was incredibly beautiful. And this magnificent white horse comes up to the gate and nickers at me and comes close and leans over. And I was just stunned. And of course I'd never read the Bible, so I didn't know that when Jesus comes back, he'll be riding a white horse, but leading these three horses because there was a palomino and a bay. They came right up to the gate and they stood there and looked at me and it was as if they were thanking me for loving their kind on earth. And I couldn't resist. I put my hand through to stroke its silken body and it was a being of light. And when I pulled my hand back, the light of its body clung to my hand until I got it about 10 inches away and then let go and went back into the Body of the horse. And that's what I call the sticky love of God. God's love wants to cling to you.
- [11:27]
John Burke
Very interesting, isn't it? So think about this. So Jim sees these three horses, and they're real. They're real horses, but they're also made of light, like Jim said. Now, it's fascinating because in Old Testament days, you know, the only light was light from fire. And yet that's exactly the way Elisha and the servant described what they saw. These horses and chariots of fire or of light all around Elisha. So they're beings of. Of light. But does that mean that they're intangible? No, no. You can touch them, you can ride them. It's real. You know, Jim said they're. They're horses, like on Earth. He recognized a palomino and a bay, and the white one was an Arabian. He said it had silken soft fur to the touch. So they're tangible. You can touch them even though they're made of. Of light. But this light, again, is the light and love of God that infuses everything and gives life to everything in heaven. Just like we've been talking about and have heard in other episodes now. You know, it sounds weird, but it's not weird really, if you think about it, because, you know, my. Like, my arm is solid, right? You can touch it. You could touch my arm. But if you really think about it, my arm is just made up of millions of atoms. What's an atom? Well, scientists tell us that. That, you know, atoms are. Are electrons orbiting around a proton and a neutron at the nucleus. But really, the. The atoms are just in an orbital cloud. It's like an electromagnetic field. And they tell us that 99.9% of each of our atoms is just empty space. So really, I'm just mostly empty space. And yet. And yet you can touch me. I'm mainly just made up of energy states. And yet when we touch, we can feel something, but what we're actually feeling, you know, atoms don't actually touch other atoms. What you're feeling is my right hands, atoms repelling my left hands, atoms. So when we're touching, we're really repelling each other, which is an interesting thought. I don't know. That's just a random thought. But think about it. Maybe that's, you know, where. Whereas our electromagnetic force is kind of the. The what holds us all together and what is tangible in our physical world, this force of the light and love of God is the underlying force that holds everything together. There, but it's still tangible. You can feel the horses. You can ride the horses. Jesus comes riding a horse. Not only is Jim mentioned, but it's also in several places at the. In the book of Revelation. And remember Jesus, when he was resurrected, he was able to come back and see 500 of his followers, his 12 disciples as well. They touched him. You know, he ate fish with them. And apparently he can ride horses on the other side as well. So here's what John Jesus disciple said he records in Revelation 19 when, when he saw heaven, he said, I saw heaven opened, and a white horse was standing there. Its rider was named faithful and true, for he judges fairly and wages a righteous war. His eyes were like flames of fire. His title was the Word of God. The armies of heaven, dressed in the purest, in the finest of pure white linen, followed him on white horses. So apparently there's not just one horse, there are many horses. And then it says on his robe, at his thigh was written this title, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And of course, this is the title of Jesus. This is Jesus on this white horse. Now, what's wild is like, Jim said he didn't know the Bible when he saw that, but neither did Yin. Yin and her family are from Laos. They came to the US and you know, Yin, their family was Buddhist. So Yin always heard her parents say, you know, Jesus is the American God. We have our own gods. We have our ancestral gods. So she always thought, you know, Jesus is just the God of the Americans. Which, of course, if you've been watching this podcast, know the God of all people and all nations. But that's what she always heard. I'm gonna feature Yin's story in an upcoming episode on hellish near death experiences, because that's how hers started. It's not how it ended, but it started there. And I won't. I won't give too much away, but she had a bad relationship with her family. It led her into deep despair. She ended up thinking to herself, there is no God. And, and God, even if you do exist, I'd rather be in hell than go through this hell on earth. And she ended up overdosing on medications, trying to kill herself. As she was dying, she realized, as so many near death experiencers do, they realize, oh, my God, Hell is real, Heaven is real, God is real. And she realized she was so wrong. And she cries out to God to forgive her. Yet listen, who comes to rescue this Buddhist agnostic woman who cries to God for forgiveness and who comes into this dark pit and rescues her watch.
- [17:28]
Yin
I knew I was not in my body because I felt being stuck, I felt like I left my body and I was stuck through the mattress. And now I'm on this other journey. On this other journey. So I'm noticing.
- [17:42]
John Burke
And you were dropping.
- [17:43]
Yin
Yes, very fast, very quick, rapid lightning speed. Like everything was happening just so fast. And so I drop into this black pit is how I explain it. And so I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm back in hell. Like, I remember thinking I was going to hell just a day or two ago, and now I'm back there because the familiar blackness, even though I wasn't a Christian at that time, something inside me said, don't partner with that lie. And so I knew I had to say the opposite, even though I didn't even know I believed it. So I started just to come back and say, no, God does love me. No, God does care about me. I just knew I had to say the opposite. And so as I was saying, and just my thought or whatever was coming out of me to fight against these lies of God does love me, he does care about me. As I was saying that, right above me, this right, like, broke through that dark abyss. Broke right through, like, just tore open right above me. And I really believe it was Jesus. I couldn't see anything. But what I saw was a horse. I saw a white horse. And I believe it was Jesus riding on this horse. It was just this bright light that I couldn't see a face.
- [19:16]
John Burke
You saw a person on the horse?
- [19:18]
Yin
Yes.
- [19:18]
John Burke
Yeah, but it was a brilliant light that was coming out of.
- [19:23]
Yin
Exactly. I was just shocked that something was able to break through like that. And exactly like your friend, like, swooped me up and it just rescued me from that pit.
- [19:37]
John Burke
I mean, isn't this wild? This young Buddhist girl cries out to God and she says Jesus comes and rescues her on a white horse. Horse. And again, you know, she knew nothing about Jesus and. Or very little. And she didn't know for sure that Revelation says that Jesus comes to rescue on a white horse in the end. And yet that's what she saw. That's what she claimed she saw. And as many do, she ended up becoming a follower of Jesus in time. You know, question is, are. Are these horses in the book of Revelation? Are they literal or they. Are they symbolic? If you read it, it seems like both. So, yes, there are literal horses in the life to come. And I hope that's what you're starting to get is it's life. Just like life, we have here. But also in the book of Revelation, it talks about these four horses, a green, a red, a black, a white, with, with these riders on it. And I think what those are, are talking about symbolic battles and events. So it's literal, yes, but also some of it's symbolic. But there are real horses in heaven and all kinds of other animals, just as near death experiencers tell us, but also as the Bible indicates, you know, John, Jesus disciples, was taken to heaven and, and he sees an eagle crying out. He says in Revelation 8, as I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair. You know, Rebecca, the near death experiencer that I write about in Imagine Heaven and imagine the God of heaven from the 1890s, okay, before near death experiences were even a known thing. But she had one. And she talks about there in heaven watching these children playing a game with birds that look like they were playing a game with them. In Isaiah chapter 11, the prophet, the Jewish prophet Isaiah, and similarly, similarly in Revelation 21 mentions all kinds of animals that are restored and living in harmony in God's new coming kingdom. Listen to what Isaiah says. In Isaiah chapter 11, the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat. The calf and the lion and the yearling together, and the little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together. The lion will eat straw with the ox. The infant will play near the cobra's den, and the young child will put its hand into the viper's nest. Neither they will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain. For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. You know, Gary Wood, who clinically died after a car accident, was then resuscitated. And he talked about how he saw this restored harmony between so many of God's creatures there in heaven. Listen to what he said. Then from all directions, children came running to see Jesus. There were children of every race and color. They all wore robes of white and sandals. All sorts of animals were with the children. It was an awesome sight to see, to see a magnificent lion frolicking with the children as if it were a kitten and seeing birds of elegant beauty sitting on shoulders and on tops of heads. Imagine that. Imagine when finally all of creation lives in harmony, you know, because that's part of where we live right now is all of the harmony that God intended for creation has been obliterated. I mean, and, and you know, the second law, thermodynamics, things decay. There's death there's disease, there's fighting, and one eats another. But as you may be caught, you know that's not going to be the case in the coming kingdom. Now, some theologians will argue, well, what you're reading though, in the Bible here about these animals, this is the new earth. So there's a time it talks about when there will be a new heaven and new earth. So right now heaven and earth are separated, but then they're going to be joined together. And then, yes, there'll be animals, but there aren't animals in the intermediate, what we call the intermediate heaven now. And that is what near death experiencers are experiencing, the intermediate heaven. But of course, that doesn't hold water either, because John again is taken into the intermediate, intermediate heaven by Jesus and reports in Revelation what I showed you before the eagle flying. He says, I looked there before me was a white horse and of course many other living creatures that the Jewish prophets who had visions of heaven also saw, some very bizarre looking, just like Dean indicated. So let's ask this. Why do some theologians then say, no animals have no soul? So maybe there will be animals in heaven, but not your pets because they don't have a soul. Well, is that true? Is, is it biblical? Why would they say this? Well, usually they point to this passage in, in the book of job, in job 1210, where it says this in his hand, God's hand is the life of every creature, okay? And life there is the, the Hebrew word nefesh and the breath or ruach, which is also the word for spirit, the spirit or breath of all. And so what they say is, look, this is a contrast. There's one type of life, the nefesh, or flesh of animals, creatures God created. But then there's the breath or spirit, because it says God breathed, this is ruach, life into mankind. So it's a contrast, the life of animals, the flesh of animals versus the, the ruach or spirit of humans. Well, that could be, it could be contrasting a difference or this could be Hebrew parallelism, which is a very common thing in the scriptures. They say the same thing. Two different ways to bring emphasis. Now one important thing is always interpret scripture in the Bible in light of the whole of scripture, of other scripture as well. So in other places we see the words nephesh and ruach used for both animals and humans. In Genesis 9, 5, it says, I will demand an accounting for the life, the nephesh, the flesh of another human being. Okay? So here God is using this term, nefesh, referring to a human being so nefesh is used for both humans and animals, as we see, but also ruach, which is the word used for spirit, okay? Or breath. Genesis 7:15 says, Pairs of all creatures that have the breath, the ruach, the spirit of life in them came to. Noah says this also in, in the Psalms. So this is describing the, the, an animal having breath or spirit. So ruach, this word for spirit is used for the spirit of God, the spirit of a human and the spirit of animals. It's the same word. So you really can't make an argument from the Bible that says people have souls but animals don't. It's. It's just not there. Now humans are different. It says in Genesis, humans are made in the image of God, whereas animals, animals are not. It says, we are given charge over the animals, which, which literally means to take care of, to, to steward them, to care for them on behalf of God. Jesus In Matthew chapter 6 says, we are to learn from the animals, learn from the birds. They don't worry. Your heavenly Father cares for them, he feeds them. And then he says, and aren't you more valuable than they? So we're more. Humans are more valuable. Like if you had to say, do you spare life of an animal or a life of a human if one came to the other? He says, humans are more valuable. And yet it says in Psalm 36, God, you care for people and animals alike. Oh Lord. So God cares for them and we're to care for them. Now is there more evidence that animals have souls? Well, I mean, you know, there's a lot more to this. That's probably some of you know than I do. But clearly they have lower reasoning. Some pretty intelligent reasoning. We know they do feel. My dog will tell you with his tail, you know, happy, you know, scared, you know, looking, looking for something intent. If he's mad, you know, you can, I mean, you can tell. Interestingly, in her life review, Alexa told me that she was a Christian at the time. She had her near death experience, but she was a pretty judgmental, mean person. And listen to what she saw in her life review. She said everything I ever thought, did, said, hated, helped, did not help, and should have helped, was shown in front of me how mean I'd been to people, how I could have helped them, how mean I was, unintentionally also to animals. Yes, even the animals had feelings. The sense of letting my Savior down was too real. Strangely, even during this horror, I felt a compassion and acceptance of my limitations by Jesus. Animals do have feelings. There seems to be a soul that animates the physical body of an animal. They were created good by God. He declared that before there was death. So why wouldn't they live on after death? And of course Paul tells us in the New Testament, Romans chapter 8, that the creation, all creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay. For we know all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth, right up to the present time. So if all creation includes the animals, why wouldn't they be included in being set free to join God's children in this wonderful place called heaven? Of course they will. Listen as Dean describes what changed his beliefs about the souls of animals coming from earth to heaven. And then listen as Debbie Ali who whose fuller story you heard if you watched episode three where she was kidnapped and tortured literally to death and then revived. But in her near death experience, Jesus came and rescued her and takes her to this beach, more beautiful than any Caribbean beach ever. And she lived in the, in Trinidad, in the Caribbean. Listen to what she learned, even about the fish of the sea in heaven.
- [31:29]
Dean Braxton
You know, my belief system was that they would not leave this planet and go to be in heaven. But, but I saw them coming in. I saw them literally coming from this planet to go to into heaven. I remember when I was at the feet of Jesus on this right side of me were all these animals coming in. So I had known they had been on the planet, some of them had been created there and some like us were created on the planet. And when they expired or died on the planet, their spirit left and would go into heaven. Because I read the Bible, then I started looking in the Bible and I could see, hey, you know, God cared for animals, you know, and animals were first created to live forever. You know, it was a man according to the Bible that messed up, you know, it wasn't an animal that was messed up, you know, but they have to go through the results of what that man did on this planet. So in reality, you know, animals were created, if we look in the first two chapters of Genesis, to live forever. So why wouldn't they be able to go and if they expire on this planet, you know, and then I. And there is a scripture that says this In Psalms the 36 chapter, the sixth verse says God is the one that preserves man. God is the one that preserves animals. And the word preserves means save. And again I say that was not my belief system. You know, I didn't think they did go. You know, I always tell People, it's not a salvation question. If you don't believe, that's okay. It doesn't mean you can't go. You'll. You'll be surprised when you get there and your pet's there to greet you in, you know.
- [33:04]
Jim Woodford
So he put me down on the sand. He knew what I was thinking. I know he knew what I was thinking, but he didn't. He did not respond at the time. And I reveled in that sand. There was a blue in that ocean, different shades of blue, that, as crazy as this sounds, and I am no artist, trust me, I mixed every paint color I could find, you know, in an attempt to replicate at least one shade of the blue. Cannot, cannot find. Does not exist in this realm, in this world.
- [33:46]
Yin
Pew.
- [33:47]
Jim Woodford
Sea wall. And the water was like. Just like an ocean filled with fish, different kinds of aquatic life and all of that. And the life, you know, whatever, crabs, fish, whatever, they were moving and doing their thing.
- [34:02]
John Burke
You. You knew that or you saw that.
- [34:04]
Jim Woodford
Or I saw that and I knew that. So. So even my vision was like, I was able to see that flower into the waters where I could see the outlines of the different types of fish and the colors and even the skeleton, if I looked closely enough, I could see them moving around, and they're just kind of doing whatever. And I'm like, wow, you know, that's cool. I didn't know we had those here. You know, I'm thinking these things, and I saw the life in the ocean, but the. The water itself was alive. The water itself was. Was a living, breathing thing. It's almost as though there was a heartbeat in the ocean. Interesting, but not one you could hear, but you could sense.
- [34:59]
John Burke
So there was a. There was a life to even the. The water, the ocean, the sea.
- [35:05]
Jim Woodford
And I'll tell you how I realized that as well, because that was my initial thought when I viewed the. The ocean as it was. But then as Jesus walked, you know, maybe two or three steps along the shoreline, you know, where the water lapsed onto the sand, the water would stop blowing. There was no movement. So, same way that the horizon was a dead straight line, the water, where it encroaches on the sand, became a.
- [35:35]
John Burke
Dead straight line, but only where he.
- [35:37]
Jim Woodford
Was walking, only where he walked.
- [35:39]
John Burke
So were there waves? Was there movement? Like. Like an ocean?
- [35:43]
Jim Woodford
Like an ocean. There's not, you know, normal waves, no crashing waves, but there was, you know, the gentle ripple of the. Of the water, because that's the nature. That's nature, right? It's movement in the water. So there will be. If the fish move, there will be movement. If there's wind, which there was a gentle breeze, it will move the water and cause the ripples and all of that. So all of that was natural.
- [36:05]
John Burke
And so was it similar to a beach that we would see in the Caribbean or something like that?
- [36:13]
Jim Woodford
Yes, very much so.
- [36:14]
John Burke
But so much more brilliant.
- [36:17]
Jim Woodford
But not similar, but not so. It's. The fish stopped moving. The fish. I saw the fish stop moving as Jesus was passing, as he passed by.
- [36:32]
John Burke
What do you think that was about?
- [36:34]
Jim Woodford
Well, the Lord, that's what he told me, was everything must stand still in my presence.
- [36:42]
John Burke
Wow.
- [36:44]
Jim Woodford
And it suddenly makes sense, like, oh.
- [36:47]
John Burke
Kind of like all nature, all creation bows down before him.
- [36:51]
Jim Woodford
Everything must pay honor to his presence wherever he is.
- [36:56]
John Burke
That's amazing. I mean, when I first heard all creation, even the fish stand still in his presence because he's the Creator. He. He is the one who's responsible for your life and my life and every created thing. And isn't it going to be wonderful when everything is made right and in harmony again and we live in his presence, that is Heaven. And it's not discontinuous from the life we live on Earth because that too was created by God. But this is a messed up version of what we're going to experience. Then that's what I hope you see. It's going to be awesome. All right, drum roll, please. What about dogs and cats? This is the question many of you have been wondering about. And I guess you heard Dean say you will see your pets in heaven. Interestingly, he said he saw animals coming from earth to heaven just with the people. Like the people. And so that's fascinating to think about. You know, as a boy, I think about all the pets I had. You know, I had three dogs that I loved. King, Captain, and Prince. See a theme. Yes. And it's true. They ruled. They had a great life. But I was crazy about him as a boy, and. And I love them and will I see them again? I mean, how cool will that be? I had all kinds of pets. I had ducks and skunks and gerbils and parakeets. And I don't know, is it. Is it all going to be there? I mean, it'd be kind of cool to see again. But I think the question, especially about our pets that we loves, we love, really gets to the heart of God. You know, what is God? Like, what kind of God is the Creator? And, you know, as we've been looking at in other episodes, God is love. And he created us to love first to love God, then to love each other, and even to steward or care for all of his creation, including the animals. We're to be good stewards of the animals. We also saw that the how the Bible tells us that all of God's creation gets restored and renewed. You know, interestingly, Jesus even told one near death experiencer I interviewed that God gives children pets in order to teach them about love and, and how to love. So if you just think about that, if God is love and he gives us pets to learn to love as children, but also we love them as adults and heaven is the kingdom of love, why would God not have our pets there with us when love is made perfect? I think he will listen as Karina, a Colombian woman I interviewed who had a near death experience in Covid. And then Randy, a former CEO who grew up as a child, bullied and without other friends, but had a dog that he loved. Listen to how they both talk about the amazing reunion of heaven.
- [40:18]
Karina
And I said, God, the only way. And I said, God, I said, God, the only way I can open my eyes is if you show me any family members that have died. And he says, look to your right. And so I looked to my right and I still did not want to open my eyes, but I could see and I just went like this. And I saw. I saw my two dogs and I knew by seeing them there was love connection. And so I kind of, kind of got closer when I saw them. And I always tell people it's like when you slick your hair back and you have your hair like that hair that was flowing and that tiny hair touches that gold light and love immediately immersed. And this is like warmth, like billions, yes, billions and billions of people hugging you. I don't even know how to even explain, but it's love. And it just pulled me in. And as I walk, I realized it's a golden light. I looked and it was golden streets.
- [41:28]
Randy
He spoke in the essence of that love. And everything that I perceived and everything that I saw in heaven and the people I saw in heaven all were through the reflective eyes of Jesus who had infused his presence through me. So now I was thinking of. I was full of joy. And I was seeing the people in heaven who are full of joy. I was seeing joy emanating from them. I was seeing the essence of the people that I saw in heaven was who they truly were and not. I wasn't seeing just the surface of who they were as we do on in this world. I Was seeing the manifestation of who I was in a way more profound than ever I had experienced in this world. And Jesus escorted me to another theater of life. So as we journeyed and this theater of life brought me to a time when I again back as a child and, and I had one, one good friend. I had been, you know, I. As I said I'd been bullied in school, they moved and I didn't have a friend. And Jesus was showing me this. And I was amazed. Jesus was telling me I was there this whole time. You didn't even know it. I didn't even know it. And he was showing me. I was there, I was there. I was waiting for you. But I had my dog. I had my dog Casey, little toy fox terrier. And Casey was my savior. I mean, I came home from a bad day and you know, self isolation, watching TV or doing homework. And Casey would jump up, lick me like a lollipop. And I would watch him face off with the squirrel in the backyard. And he was my everything. And yeah, he died when I was in college. And he said, turn around and he waved like this. And I looked, looked around.
- [43:46]
Dean Braxton
It was Cayce.
- [43:47]
Randy
And I was in heaven at this time. I was not in the theater of life, I was in heaven. And Cayce was there jumping up and I held him and he kissed me like a lollipop, you know, and. And then I set him down and he ran off into the field, you know, blooming with flowers. And he said this. He said, see, Jesus said this. Jesus said, see, I give you the desires of your heart.
- [44:18]
John Burke
You know, God is so good. I mean, do you realize that just like Randy said, Jesus told Randy he wants to give you the desires of your heart. And that's what heaven is when God finally meets the deepest desires of your heart. Because that's who God is and because of his nature and because not only of what the Bible says, but also what in the ears say, I'm convinced your pets are going to be there with you. What about cats? All right, I have to be. I have to be honest here. I have heard a lot more people talk about seeing their pet dogs on the other side then I have their pet cats. Now having said that, I have to confess, I'm not a cat guy, okay? And I have heard a few people mention cats. Maybe in heaven cats won't have such an attitude. Okay? That's my only cat mention no cats. I have seen. My, My sister has had cats. Her cat Duke loved her and she loved that cat. So I know Cat attachment is real, just not something I share so much. But then, I'm not God, so don't worry about it. Jim Woodford did tell me he saw children playing with cats. He said one building had a huge green space in front of it, and on that green space were thousands and thousands of children playing with dogs and cats, deer and birds. And I'm stunned, he said, because they're clearly children. And I asked, what's that building? And he said, the angel said, james, that's the nursery. He saw these children who had died prematurely. They're growing up in heaven. And just like many near death experiencers testify to, the animals love the children. The children play with the animals. Even huge animals and dogs and cats are included in heaven. Our pets can play. They can be petted, they can lick you still, just like Randy experienced. Can they talk? That's an interesting question. One indie ear that I really trust said yes. Another said no. So one said yes. I haven't really been able to dive in and like I've said to you before, you know, when I hear just one person who's had a near death experience say something, I don't know what to make of that. I wait for multiple agreements. So I kind of put it on the shelf and wait. But Rebecca, the indie ear from the 1890s, said she saw her old dog Sport in heaven and even ask her niece about it. Here's what she said. A beautiful great dog came bounding to meet us and crouched and fawned at my very feet with every gesture of glad welcome. Do you not know him? Auntie May asked brightly. It's dear Old Sport. I cried, stooping and placing my arms about his big neck and resting my head on his silken hair. Dear old fellow, how happy I am to have you here. At this he sprang to his feet, barking joyously, and gambled and frolicked before us the rest of the way home. He understands every word we say, said May. Of course he does. He only lacks speech to make him perfect. I somehow hoped he might find it here. He would not be half so interesting if he could talk. May said. So here we have one saying yes, but here's another saying no. So I'll have to do more research. We'll wait and see for more evidence on that one. But one thing I'm sure of, you will see the pets you love in heaven, because God is the God of love. He's good, and he desires to fulfill your heart's deepest longings. So follow him and trust him until the great reunion. Well, I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. If you have, I hope you will subscribe and like it and tell your friends. Give me your comments too. I'm looking at them. I haven't been able to respond, but I'm looking at them and even for ideas for future podcasts. And I want to say I so appreciate so many of you you giving words of encouragement there. That really keeps me going. So until next time, hug your pet and be blessed.