Podcast Summary: "Copyright" on In Our Time

Episode Information

• Title: Copyright
• Host: Melvyn Bragg, BBC Radio 4
• Release Date: June 12, 2025
• Guests:
  • Lionel Bentley: Professor of Intellectual Property Law, University of Cambridge
  • Will Slaughter: Professor of History, Sorbonne University, Paris
  • Katie McGettigan: Senior Lecturer in American Literature, Royal Holloway University of London

1. Introduction to Copyright

The episode opens with an overview of copyright's origins and its role in balancing the interests of creators, publishers, and the public amidst technological advancements. Melvyn Bragg sets the stage by highlighting the enduring debates surrounding originality and ownership in copyright law.

Notable Quote:

Melvin Bragg [05:38]: "Copyright is the legal mechanism that allows an individual or corporation to control the exploitation of cultural works."

2. Copyright Before the Statute of Anne (1710)

Before the landmark Statute of Anne, England operated under a system where printing privileges were granted by the monarchy. These privileges often included censorship and were sometimes indefinite, leading to monopolistic practices by the Stationers Guild, which regulated the printing of books and other materials.

Notable Quote:

Melvin Bragg [06:21]: "There were printing privileges granted usually by the King to somebody... and often these were indefinite but sometimes time limited."

3. The Statute of Anne and Its Impact

Passed in 1710 during Queen Anne’s reign, the Statute of Anne is recognized as the world's first copyright law. It marked a departure from prior regulatory systems by eliminating pre-publication censorship and introducing limited terms of protection for authors’ works—21 years for existing works and 14 years for new ones, renewable once.

Notable Quote:

Katie McGettigan [07:58]: "The Statute of Anne was saying, we're not going to have any more pre-publication censorship, but there is still going to be an exclusive right to print and sell a book that originates with the author."

4. The Battle of the Booksellers

Following the Statute of Anne, major booksellers like Jacob Tonson sought to maintain perpetual property rights over classic works, contrary to the statute's term limitations. This led to the "Battle of the Booksellers," a series of court cases from the 1740s to the 1770s, challenging these monopolistic claims and advocating for the public domain.

Notable Quote:

Katie McGettigan [12:55]: "The Statute of Anne says existing works only had 21 years of protection and then they would enter the public domain."

5. Internationalization and the Berne Convention

As the 19th century progressed, the transnational circulation of books necessitated international copyright cooperation. This culminated in the Berne Convention of 1886, which standardized copyright protections across signatory nations, ensuring that works published in one country received protection in others.

Notable Quote:

Katie McGettigan [17:22]: "There is a push that is gradual but persistent towards a greater international cooperation across the 19th century."

6. Copyright and Visual Arts

Initially, copyright protected primarily literary and musical works. However, in the mid-18th century, engravings were first included, followed by sculptures in 1798 and later paintings, drawings, and photographs in 1862. This expansion was driven by artists like William Hogarth and George Garrard, who sought to protect their creative outputs against unauthorized reproductions.

Notable Quote:

Melvin Bragg [20:18]: "The first form of visual arts that was protected by copyright were engravings."

7. Authorship and Originality

The concept of authorship evolved alongside copyright law, increasingly emphasizing originality and creative expression. Figures like William Wordsworth argued for extended copyright terms, positing that truly original works require time to gain public appreciation and that authors' descendants should benefit from their legacy.

Notable Quote:

Katie McGettigan [26:22]: "Ideas about what authorship is and what copyright should protect have developed hand in hand."

8. British vs. American Copyright Law

British and American copyright laws developed distinct characteristics. Notably, the United States initially tied copyright to citizenship, limiting foreign authors' protections within its borders. This led to creative strategies, such as British publishers sending American authors to Canada to secure copyrights. The U.S. eventually diverged further by not joining the Berne Convention until the 1980s, maintaining unique provisions like the manufacturing clause.

Notable Quote:

Will Slaughter [32:35]: "In the United States, copyright is connected to citizenship."

9. Technological Advances and Their Impact

Technological innovations, such as photography and sound recordings, continuously challenged and reshaped copyright laws. The advent of photography raised questions about reproducing existing works, while sound recordings led to the introduction of compulsory licenses, allowing multiple recordings of the same song with statutory royalties.

Notable Quote:

Melvin Bragg [24:13]: "Photography raised two distinct questions... whether the outputs of AI should be protected where there's no human creator."

10. Modern Challenges: Digital, Sampling, and AI

The digital age introduced unprecedented ease in copying and distributing works, prompting debates on copyright enforcement and the balance between protecting creators and fostering innovation. Issues like music sampling and the rise of artificial intelligence (AI) generated content highlight ongoing tensions. The episode discusses whether AI outputs without human input should be copyrightable and the implications of sampling cultures, particularly in genres like hip-hop.

Notable Quotes:

Melvin Bragg [42:49]: "Should training an AI system on copyright protected material be regarded as an infringement?"

Katie McGettigan [39:10]: "Copyright has changed how we have thought about this notion of borrowing or sampling over time."

11. Fair Dealing and Exceptions

Fair dealing (or fair use) allows limited use of copyrighted works without permission, primarily for criticism, review, or educational purposes. However, its subjective and case-by-case nature poses challenges, as individuals may face legal risks despite believing their use is fair. The power dynamics between large corporations and individual creators further complicate the accessibility of fair dealing protections.

Notable Quote:

Annie Newbond [54:49]: "If you think you're only just quoting enough to make your critical point, you still run the risk that you might be taking to court."

12. Conclusion

The episode concludes by reflecting on copyright's intricate relationship with broader societal and political issues. From protecting individual creators to enabling corporate control, copyright law continues to evolve amidst technological advancements and cultural shifts. The ongoing debates underscore the delicate balance between fostering creativity and ensuring public access to knowledge.

Notable Quote:

Annie Newbond [64:26]: "Copyright can sometimes seem like a kind of niche subject... but my point is that the ideas that we have about copyright are so entangled with bigger political debates in the day."

Key Takeaways:

• Evolution of Copyright: From the Statute of Anne’s limited protection to modern international treaties and digital challenges.
• Authorship and Originality: The legal and cultural emphasis on originality shapes what is protectable.
• Technological Impact: Innovations like photography, sound recording, and AI continuously test and expand copyright boundaries.
• International Disparities: Differences between British and American laws influence global copyright practices.
• Fair Use Challenges: Subjective interpretations of fair dealing can hinder access and debate.
• Power Dynamics: Large corporations often wield significant influence over copyright enforcement, affecting creators' rights.

Further Listening: Tune into future episodes of In Our Time for more deep dives into the complexities of intellectual property and its role in shaping our cultural landscape.