The Spanish-American War 1898

Summary

In Our Time – "The Spanish-American War 1898" (BBC Radio 4)

Aired: April 30, 2026 | Host: Misha Glenny
Guests:

• Frank Cogliano (Professor of American History, University of Edinburgh)
• Steve Wilkinson (Senior Lecturer in Politics & International Relations, University of Buckingham)
• Mary Vincent (Professor of Modern European History, University of Sheffield)

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode examines the causes, course, and far-reaching consequences of the Spanish-American War of 1898—a short but pivotal conflict that marked the end of Spain’s imperial age and the emergence of the United States as a world power. The conversation focuses on how the war shaped the futures of Spain, Cuba, the Philippines, and the wider world, exploring national psyches, debates about imperialism, the role of the media, and socio-political aftershocks that rippled through the 20th century.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Spain’s Imperial Identity in the 1890s (02:13–04:45)

• Mary Vincent: Empire remained "enormously important" to Spain at the time, holding onto Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines even after losing most of its American colonies. The idea of Hispanidad—shared language, religion, and culture—helped sustain Spain’s sense of imperial destiny.
• Spain clung to its last colonies partly to maintain the fiction of being a significant imperial power, especially with Cuba featuring prominently in national consciousness.

2. Rebellion and Repression in Cuba (04:45–06:27)

• Mary Vincent: Spanish military leadership, particularly under General Valeriano Weyler, introduced harsh tactics including the prototype of concentration camps, predating the British use in the Boer War.
• The Spanish government's refusal to consider compromise or defeat was widespread among the populace, driven by intense jingoism.

3. Why Cuba Remained a Colony (06:27–08:49)

• Steve Wilkinson: Sugar and slavery bound Cuba to Spain. The island’s economic elites and Spain were mutually invested in avoiding another Haiti-style slave revolt.
• The U.S. preferred Spain keeping hold of Cuba over the risk of other European powers acquiring it, echoing the Monroe Doctrine (“ripe fruit” policy by John Quincy Adams, 08:49).

4. The Rise of Cuban Nationalism and Jose Marti (09:13–10:43)

• Steve Wilkinson: Jose Marti, seen as the "architect of Cuban independence," promoted an inclusive, biracial Cuban identity—Cubanidad—contrasting with Spanish Hispanidad.
• At its peak, 50% of Cuba’s population was of African heritage; by 1895, a large mixed population existed, and national aspirations for equality troubled both Spanish and American policymakers.

5. America’s Policy Dilemma (11:28–13:54)

• Frank Cogliano: President McKinley and U.S. policymakers were expansionist, but also claimed anti-imperialist principles rooted in their revolutionary history. Initial policy was to "wait and see," hoping Cuba would come under U.S. influence via gradual collapse of Spanish rule.

6. The USS Maine Incident and War Trigger (14:08–15:31)

• American interests were threatened as the Cuban rebellion escalated; after the USS Maine exploded in Havana harbor (Feb 15, 1898), media outrage pushed the U.S. into war, despite uncertainty about the cause ("probably an explosion in the coal room"—Cogliano).

7. U.S. Strategic Motivations and Naval Power (15:48–17:08)

• U.S. naval expansion, influenced by Alfred Mahan’s The Influence of Sea Power upon History, sought coaling stations and access to Asian markets, driving toward global imperial parity with Britain.

8. Spain’s Diminished Ties to the Philippines (17:08–18:53)

• Mary Vincent: The Philippines, although technically part of Spain’s empire, held little emotional or cultural significance compared to Cuba—seen as remote and secondary in Spanish discourse.

9. Conditions of War in Cuba (18:53–20:39)

• Enormous Spanish troop deployments to Cuba, mainly poorly trained reservists, were decimated by disease (yellow fever, malaria), revealing the weakness of Spain’s overstretched military apparatus.

10. Did Cuban Rebels Need U.S. Help? (20:39–23:41)

• Steve Wilkinson: U.S. intervention ended stalemate quickly; without it, Cuba might eventually have won independence, but at the cost of “utter devastation.”
• The independence movement’s leaders, Jose Marti and Antonio Maceo, feared U.S. intervention would mean trading Spanish for U.S. dominance. Marti’s letter:

  "I've lived inside the monster...and I know its entrails. My sling is that of David." (22:11)

11. U.S. War Effort and Military Realities (23:41–25:01)

• U.S. Army was small and inexperienced, but the Navy was modern and formidable, allowing rapid conquest.

12. Spain’s Reaction: Humiliation and National Soul-Searching (25:01–27:53)

• Mary Vincent: The war was a “national humiliation,” but surprisingly did not cause the collapse of Spain’s corrupt, oligarchic internal system. It incited intense national introspection and prompted more demands for autonomy in regions like Catalonia.

13. Cuban “Independence”: Protectorate Status (28:02–31:52)

• After four years of U.S. occupation, Cuba became “nominally independent,” but the reality was American “sovereignty residing elsewhere.” Most Cuban insurgents were sidelined in favor of the wealthy planter elite.
• Teller Amendment (29:53): U.S. pledge not to annex Cuba.
• Platt Amendment (31:06): Allowed U.S. intervention in Cuban affairs—Cuba as a de facto protectorate.

14. U.S. Becomes an Imperial Power (32:17–33:47)

• The panel unanimously identifies the Spanish-American War, not WWI, as the turning point making the U.S. a global imperial power.

  "I think it's 1898. It completely changes the world order." (Mary Vincent, 33:47)

15. European Reactions and Spanish Decline (33:52–35:42)

• Other European powers, especially Britain and France, saw Spain as a declining or “dead” nation; the defeat confirmed the existing global order. British economic interests in Spain continued largely unaffected.

16. Cuba’s Unfulfilled National Aspirations and Instability (35:42–37:07)

• Persistent anti-U.S. sentiment and multiple uprisings in early 20th-century Cuba, culminating in 1933’s revolution and, later, Castro’s—an unbroken thread of frustration over lack of real sovereignty:

  "The lack of sovereignty...becomes heavily pregnant as the century goes." (Steve Wilkinson, 37:07)

17. Parallel Story: The Philippines (38:09–40:48)

• Philippine independence movement helped by the U.S. at first, but then suppressed in a brutal war (4,000 U.S., 20,000 Filipino combatants, up to 200,000 civilians killed).
• U.S. adopted similar “imperial” tactics—torture, concentration camps—as Spain had used in Cuba.

18. Spanish Defeat’s Legacy: Road to Civil War (40:48–43:40)

• Spanish military became “top-heavy…with 142 admirals for two warships” (Mary Vincent), held an outsized role in civilian life, and remained consumed by “imperial destiny”—setting the stage for the polarization that would explode in the 1936 civil war.

19. Media’s Role—Yellow Journalism (43:40–45:49)

• Press in the U.S. (notably Hearst and Pulitzer) whipped up war fervor, sometimes with fabricated or exaggerated atrocity stories:

  “You send me the photos, I'll give you a war.” (Attributed to Hearst, 44:25)

• In Spain, the press was just as jingoistic, presenting “the glory of Imperial Spain and standing up to defeating the American pig” (Mary Vincent, 45:33).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mary Vincent (03:36): “Spain’s destiny is to be an imperial Catholic power that has a particular relationship with Spanish America, which is often summed up within the notion of Hispanidad...”
• Steve Wilkinson (06:46): “The short answer is sugar and slavery.”
• Jose Marti (via Wilkinson, 22:11): “I've lived inside the monster, meaning the United States, and I know its entrails. My sling is that of David.”
• Steve Wilkinson (31:10): “So the Platt Amendment attempts to reverse the Teller Amendment, but as a consequence, the United States never formally annexes Cuba, although as we know, for the next 60 years it's going to exist out of control.”
• Steve Wilkinson (37:07): “The lack of sovereignty...is a current that recurs throughout, and a resentment, particularly of some of the terms of the Platt Amendment.”
• Frank Cogliano (54:11): “One of the things that happens is the war helps make [Roosevelt] President...He emerges from this as a hero.”
• Mary Vincent (43:33): On Spanish press after the war: "It's absolutely about the glory of the Imperial Spain and standing up to defeating the, the American pig."
• Frank Cogliano (57:46): Quoting Mark Twain: "We, the United States, have joined the ranks of the civilized nation with the banner of the Prince of peace in one hand and the butcher's knife in the other."

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Additional Insights (Bonus Material)

• Cuban exiles (“Cuban junta”) actively influenced U.S. press and politics to maximize chances of U.S. intervention and passage of the Teller Amendment (46:08–47:30).
• Economic Imperialism: Prior to 1895, U.S. investment and trade had already made Cuba “almost a colony” (48:52).
• Puerto Rico’s Lesser Importance: “Cuba dominates the discourse in Spain…it's sugar that cements the position of Cuba...” (Mary Vincent, 49:36).
• Annexation of Guantanamo Bay: Part of the peace settlement, Guantanamo became a permanent U.S. base (50:15).
• Panama Canal: War’s outcome positioned U.S. to build and control the canal, further boosting global reach (51:04).
• Theodore Roosevelt: War made Roosevelt a national hero; he combined action in politics and military to shape America’s new assertive stance (52:26).
• Intersection of Race and Empire: “Buffalo Soldiers” (black regiments) fought in Cuba; their deployment and treatment reflected the racism of the era (56:30).
• Cultural Echoes: The war gave rise to cocktails like the daiquiri and “Cuba Libre” (57:24).
• Spanish Military Overreach: Overstaffed and obsessed with lost imperial glory, setting the stage for 20th-century political instability.

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Important Timestamps

• 02:13 – Episode proper begins; introduction to Spain’s imperial identity
• 04:55 – Spanish military’s approach and the birth of concentration camps in Cuba
• 06:46 – Sugar, slavery, and Cuba’s place in the Spanish empire
• 09:13 – Jose Marti and concept of Cubanidad
• 14:08 – USS Maine explosion and media outrage
• 15:48 – Role of sea power and U.S. imperial ambitions
• 23:46 – U.S. military realities in the war
• 25:21 – Spanish political and economic reaction to the defeat
• 29:53 – Teller and Platt Amendments: Cuba’s protectorate status
• 33:36 – When does the U.S. become a true imperial power?
• 35:55 – Early-20th-century Cuban resistance to U.S. influence
• 38:09 – The Philippine–American War as imperial parallel
• 41:11 – Spanish defeat, military overreach, and long-term consequences
• 43:40 – Role of journalism (“yellow press”) in fanning war fever

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Conclusion

The Spanish-American War of 1898 was a decisive and transformative event, precipitated by rebellion and atrocity, exaggerated by a sensationalist press, and culminating in a shift of global power from the old European empires to the United States. The repercussions were profound: the decline and introspection of Spain, fraught paths to sovereignty in its former colonies, and the dawn of American imperialism abroad. The legacy of this “short war” would shape geopolitics, national psychologies, and independence movements for generations.

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For further reading, see the episode’s reading list attached to the official BBC programme page.

Transcript

[Steve Wilkinson]

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[Misha Glennie]

This is in our time from BBC Radio 4 and this is one of more than a thousand episodes you can find in the In Our Time Archive. A reading list for this edition can be found in the episode description wherever you're listening. I hope you enjoy the program. Hello. The Spanish American War broke out in 1898 when many Cubans were already fighting for independence from Spain and the United States came down on those Cuban side with a small army but a much more powerful Navy. The US soon defeated Spanish forces won Puerto Rico, Guam and the Philippines from Spain, and a new Cuban republic was born. And while the US emerged as a world power and Spain turned inwards to ask what had gone wrong, life in the former Spanish colonies was about to change dramatically. With me to discuss the Spanish American War of 1898 are Frank Cogliano, professor of American History at the University of Edinburgh, Stephen Wilkinson, Senior Lecturer in Politics and International Relations at the University of Buckingham, and Mary Vincent, professor of Modern European History at the University of Sheffield. Mary, let me ask you, first of all, how important was empire to Spain in the 1890s?

[Mary Vincent]

In the 1890s, empire is still enormously important to Spain culturally and as part of what you might call the national psyche. So even though Spain has, which has been one of the greatest empires the world has ever seen, even though Spain has lost nearly all its South American colonies by the 1820s at the end of the Napoleonic wars, it retains Cuba, it retains Puerto Rico, and it has the Pacific islands, natively, the Philippines. That allows Spain to still think that it is an imperial power. And so the narratives that are told within Spain are very much those of imperial destiny, not necessarily imperial greatness, but the idea that Spain's destiny is to be an imperial Catholic power that has a particular relationship with Spanish America, which is often summed up within the notion of Hispanidaf Hispanity, which is something that is shared language, religion, culture, and within that, particularly the remnants of the empire that they have in the 1890s, which allows Spain to frankly pretend it's still an imperial power and is still at least a middle ranking great power. Cuba holds a particularly important place place

[Misha Glennie]

such that they send in the 1890s a general there, Valeriano Vela, and he turns out to be a bit of a nasty piece of work.

[Mary Vincent]

He does indeed. I know the British often think that concentration camps started in the Boer War and it's actually the Cuban revolution of the 1890s. VA replaces a man called another General called Martina Campos, who is keen to get some kind of negotiated settlement with the Cubans, some autonomy, some kind of home rule. And that is ruled. He fails. He's not supported by the government in Spain. They send Wehler to enforce a military solution which involves the reconcentration policy of denuding the rural areas and concentrating people in the cities.

[Misha Glennie]

So you've got that civil war going on effectively in Cuba. Are the Spaniards looking at the US and what the US might be thinking about Cuba at the time, if you

[Mary Vincent]

know anything about naval power, then yes, you are looking at the US and you are thinking that Spain is not going to win any conflict, should that come. But that really is a limited number of elites, political elites, military elites and so on. The general mood in Spain is one of a jingoism that's exaggerated even in a colonial era. The United States is presented as a pig, Spain is presented as a lion. There is an absolute insistence that somehow Spain's destiny, imperial destiny, and the fact that for many people, Cuba is part of Spain and there's a clear political project to have it become part of Spain like the Canary Islands are, they don't countenance the prospect of any defeat from the United States.

[Misha Glennie]

Well, Steve Wilkinson, in that case, despite this leonine self image that the Spaniards had, they had already lost a great deal of their empire in South America, Chile, Argentina, other states in south and Central America. How had it held onto Cuba for so long?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Well, the short answer is sugar and slavery. So going back to the beginning of the 19th century, Cuba became very suddenly at the end of the 18th, early 19th century, a major sugar producer which entailed the importation of vast numbers of African slaves. And there was a fear amongst the newly rich planter class at the time of another high tea. There was a slave rebellion in the neighboring colony of Saint Domingue, which was owned by France. That was actually the cause of the explosion of sugar in C. The sugar industry in Saint Domingue was decimated. A lot of the planters moved to Cuba and that's how it became this major sugar producer very quickly. But the planters who became newly rich from this business feared another Haiti. And they kind of colluded with the Spanish Crown. And the Spanish crown also got into the business of providing the slaves. So there was a mutual interest here in maintaining the colony by the plantocracy. Well, it was their counterparts in South America that had actually fought against Spanish rule. And so in Cuba, that antipathy between the crown and the elites didn't exist. In fact, there was the opposite. A second reason is to do with the United States itself, because the United States formed very early and Frank will come in on this, I'm sure, very early, the desire to acquire Cuba as a state of the Union. And they watched very carefully how Spain was losing power there throughout the 19th century. Quite early on, in 1823, John Quincy Adams, the Secretary of State, formulated a policy of waiting for Cuba to fall into their hands once Spain became too weak. So in actual fact, subsequently administrations actually helped Spain maintain its colony because they rather Spain held onto it than it fell into other European powers hands.

[Misha Glennie]

So is that part of the Monroe Doctrine of 1823, the John Quincy Adams?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Yeah, Quincy Adams writes a letter in which he formulates what's known as the ripe fruit policy. Well, it's known as that in Cuba anyway. And he uses this analogy of the apple falling from a tree inevitably to the ground by the force of gravity. There was a political gravitation that would result in Cuba falling into their hands. He promulgates that in 1823, which is the exact same year as the Monroe Doctrine. So there is link there.

[Misha Glennie]

So back to the 1880s and 1890s, can you tell us a bit about Jose Marti, who he was and how he helped propel the Cuban independence movement.

[Steve Wilkinson]

So Marti is a young man and I should have said earlier that another reason for Cuba remaining a colony was not through the want of trying. The Cubans had a war of independence from 1868-78, when Jose Marti was a young man. And he became radicalized as a youth in the idea of Cuban independence and was imprisoned for writing a seditious newspaper and eventually was released from prison, but went to exile in Spain. And he became. He arrived in Spain exactly at the time when a particular philosophy, crossism, became very prominent within Spanish culture. And he was influenced very much by it. And he formed very early on an opinion about the nature of the kind of republic that Cuba ought to become would be one which would be for the good of Cubans, all Cubans. And with all Cubans significantly meaning the African population. So Marti was the. He's known as the architect of cube of Cuban independence and also the Cuban nationalism, this idea of Cubanidad as opposed to Hispanidad, which incorporates the African element into it. And so you have a kind of conceptualization of a biracial nation. Just very briefly now, Marti articulated that

[Misha Glennie]

what percentage of the Cuban population is of African heritage at this stage at

[Steve Wilkinson]

one point in the 19th century it became about 50%. But by the time of the war of independence of 1895, there'd been a very concerted effort to import a larger number of immigrants from Spain. And there was a very large mixed race population. So there was a very deep class nature to the rebellion that took place in the island in 1895, which combined the two classes in this conceptualization of a Cuban republic that would be for all of them and they would have equal rights. And this is quite significant in determining both Spanish policy towards them and American policy. Later.

[Misha Glennie]

Well, let me go on to that American policy, Frank. Steve has spoken about the idea of Cubanism as opposed to Hispanism, but he also mentioned that the United States talking about absorbing Cuba as a state into the union. So what are the options that the US is weighing up at this point?

[Frank Cogliano]

The US is considering a number of things. The president elected in 1896, the Republican president was William McKinley. His party was broadly committed to the expansion of the United States. The United States had just completed essentially centuries of expansion across the middle of North America. And McKinley and the people around McKinley were interested in acquiring, if not acquiring Cuba, maintaining an interest in Cuba. There were American investors in Cuba, particularly in the sugar industry that Steve mentioned. And what they didn't want to see was a lot of disorder in Cuba. So the rebellion in Cuba that began in 1895 was quite worrying to the McKinley administration also. And this is going to seem counterintuitive, believed that they were anti imperial. This is going to be very difficult for listeners to appreciate, I think especially over the course of what we're about to discuss. But they looked back on their own history and the history of the United States as an, you know, it was an anti colonial country. It was founded in a rebellion against an empire. The Monroe Doctrine as originally promulgated in 1823 was intended to warn big bad old fashioned European empires, monarchical empires like Spain, out of the New World, saying okay, we as the senior republic, it's very paternalistic, but the senior republic in the hemisphere will look after and protect the other republics. The Monroe Doctrine will come something Quite different in 1898 as I'm sure we're going to discuss. So they're sympathetic to the plight of the Cuban people and the Cuban rebels. But in terms of policy terms, Misha, they do want to wait. They think if they wait, it will collapse and either fall into their hands legally or economically. And so McKinley has a kind of wait and see policy, but he's under pressure because there are some real imperialists in the country as well, active imperialists, particularly in his administration, who want to acquire Cuba.

[Misha Glennie]

So notwithstanding this self perception of the Americans as anti imperialist, what are the decisions that or what are the events that lead the US to decide? Actually we're going to go in.

[Frank Cogliano]

Well, there are American citizens in Cuba that get caught up in the Cuban rebellion that began in 1895 and there are also, there's an active Cuban community in the United States that is agitating on behalf of the Cuban rebels. So there's a great deal of sympathy for the Cuban rebels in the States. And when those American citizens are threatened, and there are a couple of incidents where one or two of them are killed. The McKinley administration, in January of 1898, dispatches one of its new battleships, the USS Maine, to Havana to, as a kind of statement of intent and to protect American interests on the island. The Maine explodes on February 15, 1898. McKinley. President McKinley is actually quite cautious at this point. He wants to undertake a review. The media doesn't. So there are calls for the United States to enter the war. Spain has no motive to blow up the USS Maine. However, an early report suggests that the ship was destroyed by a Spanish mine. Subsequent research has suggested it was probably an explosion on the ship that destroyed it. But 260American sailors were killed, and that really ramps things up. And there's a call for intervention in Cuba after that. But the most persuasive explanation that I've read is it was an explosion in the coal room.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Yeah, yeah. There was a. There was an investigation in 1976 by a US admiral that basically concluded that it was spontaneous combustion of the coal store and a defect in the design of the ship because the coal store was right next to the magazine and it ignited the magazine and that sank the ship.

[Misha Glennie]

Frank, before we go into more detail about Spain and the Philippines and Cuba, what was the import of Cuba and the Philippines to the US's growing strategic interests in Central and South America and the Pacific Rim?

[Frank Cogliano]

Well, as Mary indicated, the United States Navy is growing. There's a navalist movement in the 1890s in the United States. There's a very influential book published in 1890 by Alfred there Mahan, who teaches at the Naval War College in America, called the Influence of Sea Power on History. And Mahan argues that Britain's success as an empire was a result of sea power. Likely true. And that if the United States wants to emulate Britain, it needs to develop its navy, so it invests considerably in its navy. The navies of the world at that time depend on coal, and they need coaling stations around the world. And so there's a belief that if the United States is going to compete with Britain, Britain, they're not worried about Spain really, that they need to expand, and it's about gaining access to markets in Asia and in the Caribbean, and that naval expansion is the way to do this. And one of the strongest and most fervent proponents of this, of course, is Theodore Roosevelt, who will play a pretty significant role in the Spanish the coming war.

[Misha Glennie]

Mary Vincent is there in Spain a connection to the Philippines the way there is to Cuba? What is that relationship between the Philippines, which is it's so far away from Spain?

[Mary Vincent]

It is. And I think the relationship is remote. I don't think that the Philippines occupy anything like the same prominence in Spain or Spanish culture or in that kind of the imperial psyche that Cuba does. There is a real connection with Cuba for Spain and for many Spaniards there isn't. For the Philippines there is mission activity, there is already some commercial activity, but it is a long way away way. And there are other, other Pacific islands as well, the Caroline Islands and some which again don't. There's a reach. You could say that this empire stretches all of these thousands and thousands of miles, but the actual interest in Spain is definitely with the American, the remaining American colonies.

[Misha Glennie]

And they pour soldiers into Cuba. I mean, there are a lot of Spanish troops there, right?

[Mary Vincent]

They pour soldiers into Cuba. So they deploy more, more soldiers in Cuba than the United States has in its standing army. And they've been pouring soldiers in through the 1890s because of the War of Independence in Cuba. Many are reservists. Serving officers are actually often reluctant to go and serve in Cuba, and that's almost certainly. Well, that tells you quite a lot about the Spanish army. But that's a different question, a different issue. But what they do know is that if you the risks of dying of disease in Cuba are very, very high. Yellow fever and malaria scythe through the mobilised Spanish troops in Cuba, to which of course the response is to send more. Hence the reliance on reservists.

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[Misha Glennie]

So Steve Wilkinson the Cuban rebels, they'd been at this for quite a long time, trying to overthrow Spanish rule. Did they need US help? Was it important to them that the US Come in on their side?

[Steve Wilkinson]

It was because they. Well, there's a moot. There's a moot point. But amongst historians there is a tendency in historiography to exaggerate the requirement of American troops to fulfill their independence. But it would be fair, I think, to say that the war had been fought to a kind of a stalemate, that the Spanish were still occupying the main cities and the Cubans had managed to more or less liberate the countryside. But the countryside was absolutely destroyed. So had the war continued without American intervention, it's probably likely that Spain would be vanquished eventually, but it wouldn't have been done in a timely fashion that would leave Cuba with anything other than just devastation in its wake. The intervention of the Americans ended it quickly and therefore allowed Cuba to have some space to develop afterwards. So it was fortuitous for the Cubans that the Americans became involved when they did in that respect.

[Misha Glennie]

And also they'd lost the independence movement, had lost their great leader, Jose Marti, because he rather, I thought, rather stupidly fought at the very beginning of the rebellion of 1895. Is that right?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Yes. He wasn't a soldier, and against orders, he rode directly into the fire of the Spanish and committed what some people say is a form of political suicide. But he did leave a legacy which was enormously important to the story, and that was that in his knapsack they found this very famous letter he was writing to his friend in Mexico, Manuel Machado, in which he says that everything that he'd done up to that point had been to try and prevent the United States from actually intervening in Cuba. Because if The United States did. It would dominate the rest of Latin America using Cuba as a platform. And he says, I've lived inside the monster, meaning the United States, and I know its entrails. My sling is that of David. So this kind of conceptualization of Cuba being a kind of bastion against American imperialism is set by Marti in his dying letter. And that is quite significant.

[Misha Glennie]

So he sees it as sort of out of the Spanish frying pan into the American fire, is that right?

[Steve Wilkinson]

That was the danger. And the leadership amongst the Cubans was very much of the mind. The great black general Antonio Maceo was also killed in 1896, which was actually even bigger blow to the insurgency. He also said that we have to achieve independence without the Americans help. We better not have any debts to such a powerful neighbor. That's what he said. So they were very clear they wanted to get independence without the Americans help, and they failed to do it. And the Americans came in.

[Misha Glennie]

So, Frank, what forces did the US then throw at Cuba?

[Frank Cogliano]

Well, as Mary indicated, the United States army was actually very small at the outbreak of the war. It was about 25,000 men. And most of those had, if they had any experience at all, had been used against indigenous people in the Trans Mississippi west, in North America, in the wars against Native Americans in the 1870s and 80s. So they mobilized very quickly. President McKinley once, he asked Congress for authorization to protect American interests and protect the Cuban people. And I think that's an important rhetorical device of his. And they call up 125,000 men, but they're mostly new conscripts and they're not terribly well trained. They mass in Florida, which is not a very pleasant place in the 1890s. And the hygiene within the army is not very well. There's a scandal about this after the war. So there's a very serious problem with public health and disease among the troops. But the United States has a navy and it has a growing navy that it had built up over the previous 10 or 15 years. So its naval forces are quite significant. But its military forces, army forces, are fairly weak. Well, they're large, but they're not terribly well trained or experienced.

[Misha Glennie]

So Mary Vincent, notwithstanding the weakness of American soldiery at the time, but. But the strength of the US Navy, they capture Manila and Cuba pretty quickly. What happens in Spain when they suddenly realize that these territories have been snatched away from them?

[Mary Vincent]

I think that. Well, the first response is one of horror that this has happened in the six Weeks War. It's all over. Spain's lost its navy Entire Navy for the second time in a century, one being at Trafalgar. So there's a feeling of profound humiliation. The speed of the defe and the destruction of the Navy does mean there's nowhere to go. You can't pretend that this was anything other than an utter defeat and a national humiliation. So there is an immediate concern that the political implications and economic ramifications will be immediate and will be severe. And oddly, that doesn't happen. One of the reasons that Spain has been so insistent on or Spanish elite has been sort of keeping Cuba as a colony is that Spanish politics at this time is ostensib democratic, but actually oligarchic. So they run elections, the results of which are always known in advance because they are always worked out between clientelest retinues. So there is a massive patronage network which extends and includes Cuba because of the sugar trade, and does not include the Philippines and does not include the Caroline Islands. But there is a real concern amongst the elites, including people like the Queen Regent and the Prime Minister before he's assassinated, that the loss of Cuba will mean the collapse of this internal political system which is entirely corrupt. These clienteless networks will collapse. That doesn't happen. And that surprises and reassures everybody. And the economic impact which is felt particularly in Catalonia, because Catalan textiles are not competitive internationally. So they need the protected markets in Cuba. But actually these are commercial businesses, they understand the market and they develop new opportunities in Europe. So the economic impacts are not terribly severe. What does happen is an immediate mood of national introspection. How have we come to this? How have we been defeated by this parvenu Protestant nation in a matter of weeks? How do we have no empire left at all?

[Misha Glennie]

Just interestingly, you mentioned Catalonia there and the impact on the Catalan economy. Does it spur a renewed interest in Catalan independence?

[Mary Vincent]

Yes, it does. More, I think Catalan evolution independence is very uncommon at this point. But demands for devolution and autonomy and greater Catalan say in their own affairs, that is already present and that is absolutely emboldened by the loss of Cuba

[Misha Glennie]

and the loss of the colonies. So, Steve, we're getting an idea of what happens in Spain. What actually changes for Cubans when independence happens?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Well, independence doesn't come immediately. The Americans win, obviously, and then they settle a peace deal with the Spanish, the Treaty of Paris, and occupy Cuba for four years before they permit, I would say, Cuba to become independent under a constitution that basically includes elements that are written by the Americans to ensure that American interests are protected there. So what happens is there is A kind of situation arising where Cuba becomes nominally independent but doesn't really have sovereignty. The sovereignty resides elsewhere. And more or less the United States has the say so over what happens on the island. As a consequence, the settlement is not to the satisfaction of most of the insurgents. The people that fought the war were fighting for this dream of a Cuba that was for all Cubans. They basically were shut out from the settlement. And it pleased a number of very wealthy Cuban planters who maintained their property and their power within the island. But. But the mass of people that actually fought the war were denied what they thought they were fighting for.

[Misha Glennie]

So for the rich Cubans, it was sort of everything has to change in order for things to stay the same, as it were. Yes.

[Steve Wilkinson]

I mean, that would be one way of putting it. There was a kind of split in the movement. And the president that became the first president, Estrada Palma, was of the kind of class that was the former upper elite of Cuba. And they'd kind of sat on the fence to some extent during the war. They finally came in on the side of independence. But some of them would have actually liked to have been annexed into the United States and make Cuba one of the United States even then. But independence was kind of dictated by the Americans themselves through what was known as the Teller Amendment.

[Misha Glennie]

Frank, you wanted to come in there. Perhaps you can tell us about the Teller and Platt Amendments.

[Frank Cogliano]

Sure. So, Abby, one. One question that arises if we see this relatively straightforward military success for the United States is why didn't they annex Q. Particularly because there were people calling for it, as we discussed a few minutes ago. Well, there's an anti imperial movement in the United States that's quite strong. And it's a curious mix. Some of them are sort of well meaning humanitarians who don't think the United States should become an imperial power. Others are racists. The 1890s is a profoundly racist time in American history. It's when Jim Crow is being introduced and enshrined in law and they don't want any more non white people in the United States. And so it's a diverse movement that's quite influential in certain ways. And when Congress, the United States Congress, adopted the legislation to declare war on Spain and fund this war and to undertake this military action, one Senator Teller put down an amendment saying, we will do this in the name of the Cuban people and to free the Cuban people, but we will not annex Cuba. So the United States was prohibited from annexing Cuba.

[Misha Glennie]

But a little later, there comes another amendment. What is that other amendment?

[Frank Cogliano]

Flat Amendment, which basically comes several years later, after the success of the war, after the treaty is completed. The United States doesn't want to give up its influence in Cuba. And it more or less says Cuba can't do anything without the approval of the United States. It can't do anything that threatens. So the United States says because it respects the sovereignty of Cuba, it will intervene on behalf of the Cuban people. It's very paternalistic and Washington will determine what's in the best interest of Cuba. So the Platt Amendment attempts to reverse the Teller Amendment, but as a consequence, the United States never formally annexes Cuba, although as we know, for the next 60 years it's going to exist out of control.

[Misha Glennie]

It's a protectorate of the United States.

[Frank Cogliano]

That's right.

[Misha Glennie]

I just want to get a sense this time. The 1890s, it's three decades after the end of the Civil War. America is becoming a very powerful country industrially. How does what's going on in American society impact on this idea of it possibly becoming an empire?

[Frank Cogliano]

Sure. I mean, the United States is growing economically. It's becoming an industrial power. In fact, in certain areas it's overtaking Britain. And within, within a few years it will completely overtake Britain as an industrial power. Its population is booming. We see the beginning of a surge in immigration from about 1890 down to the early 1920s, the so called new immigration. Millions of immigrants are coming to the country from southern and Eastern Europe in particular. Again, old stock Americans, some of them see this as very threatening. And there's a belief that the United States, it's urbanizing very quickly, the cities are growing and that it's almost outgrowing itself. And that this empire is necessary as a source for raw materials, as potential markets, but also as a kind of outlet because there's a depression in the early 1890s that's quite severe. And there is a lot of industrial action and industrial violence in the United states in the 1890s. And so there's also a belief that the United States needs this empire as a kind of safety valve.

[Misha Glennie]

So could you argue, and this is to any of you, could you argue that the Spanish American War is the moment when the United States becomes or is becoming a global imperial power?

[Mary Vincent]

I would say so definitely.

[Steve Wilkinson]

I agree. Absolutely.

[Misha Glennie]

Yeah.

[Frank Cogliano]

I mean, there's a tendency sometimes to look at 1917 and the American entry into the First World War is that moment, but I think it's 1898.

[Mary Vincent]

I think it's 1898. I Think it completely changes the world order. Actually.

[Misha Glennie]

So, Mary, what about the European order? Spain suddenly in decline. Is the rest of Europe watching this and aware of what's happening to Spain? And how does that change perceptions on this continent?

[Mary Vincent]

They're definitely watching it. Lord Salisbury is extremely rude about Spain and the House of Lords in 1897 and refers to it as a dying nation in a clear statement of social Darwinist principles as applied to global power. That I think is. Is possibly quite an extreme point of view, but there's no doubt that Spain is seen as not simply a dying power, but probably a dead one. France is interested in Morocco, where Spain does still have a colonial interest. And there is, I think, the mood in Europe is that this is cementing the current order in which Spain, like Portugal, is a former imperial power, but is not, not a current one, despite the very small African colonies and the military protectorate in Morocco.

[Misha Glennie]

Does Britain see this as an opportunity at all?

[Mary Vincent]

I think Britain is not very interested in any direct annexation. I think Britain is interested in ensuring that British commercial interests in Spain, which are substantial, particularly in the Basque country, with the iron and steel industries, the railways, less extent in Catalonia, but there are real links between the northwest of Spain. And it is very interested in ensuring that those economic interests are secured. But because the political system doesn't go into crisis after the defeat, and because the economic ramifications are relatively easily worked through, I think that provides reassurance to the banks and the shipping companies and the heavy industry that it's business as usual. That it's business as usual.

[Misha Glennie]

Steve, we've already identified that Cuba becomes a sort of. Of protectorate. Is there any anti US movement, I mean, organized or violent anti US movement in Cuba?

[Steve Wilkinson]

In the early part of the 20th century, there were numerous uprisings in Cuba against the settlement. So Cuba was a very unstable republic. And this manifests itself in various ways, but principally you have a kind of antipathy towards the settlement itself, but not directly against American citizens or anti Americanism, as you might say, but a great deal of dissatisfaction with the way in which the republic is still born. In that sense, the lack of sovereignty, which is a current that recurs throughout, and a resentment, particularly of some of the terms of the. This Platt Amendment. So the most violent revolution that takes place prior to 1950s is in 1933, which manages to abrogate the Platt Amendment, but doesn't actually remove American influence in the country. So to all intents and purposes, what is denied is a sort of sense of fulfillment of Cuban ideals of nationalism, which becomes heavily pregnant as the century goes.

[Misha Glennie]

So we can see the origins of the Cuban revolution of the 1950s as going back to that period, I think

[Steve Wilkinson]

it's fair to say. However, of course, Cuban historians, particularly the ones that are on the island, will emphasize this enormously. It is true, though, that the people that surrounded Fidel Castro in 1953, when he launched his first attempt to overthrow the government, called themselves La Generacion del Centenario, the Centenary Generation, because Jose Marti was born in 1853. And the manifesto of the movement at that time is very explicit in saying, what would the apostle Marti say of Cuba if he saw it today? This is not the kind of place he dreamed of, and we're going to fulfill this now. They had parents and grandparents who were veterans of both struggles, 1898 and 1933. And so there is a very strong continuity here which is very significant.

[Misha Glennie]

Frank, we haven't really talked about the Philippines yet. So what happens when the United States basically seizes the Philippines? Is it a similar situation to what happens in Cuba?

[Frank Cogliano]

There are some very interesting parallels, Misha. So the United States acquires Puerto Rico, an interest in Cuba, as we've just discussed, but then in the Pacific, it occupies Guam, as well as acquiring the Philippines, and it pays Spain in the peace treaty that ended the war of 1898, in December of that year, the Peace of Paris, $20 million for the Philippines. And there were parallels with what was happening in the Philippines and what happened in Cuba, in that there was a rebellion against Spanish rule in the Philippines that the United States tapped into, that had a very charismatic leader, Emiliano Aguinaldo. Aguinaldo lived to his 90s, so he was more fortunate than Jose Marti. But initially there were some very clear parallels between the two. And the Americans attempted to cooperate with the rebels in the Philippines initially. Soon after they acquired the Philippines, however, the rebellion continued. The rebellion flared up and it was a much more serious conflict. It lasted much longer. It was three years, and it was much more bloody than the Spanish American War. The Philippine American War resulted in the deaths of 4,000 US soldiers, probably 20,000 Filipino combatants. But 150 to 200,000 Philippine civilians were killed in this conflict. And the United States, which had entered this conflict as an anti imperial power, attempting to protect people who were rebelling for their freedom, used concentration camps, torture, behaved essentially as the Spanish did in Cuba, in the Philippines, in order to put down this rebellion, which suggests that

[Misha Glennie]

the United States saw the Philippines as a critical territory.

[Frank Cogliano]

Strategically, it was a critical territory. I mean, I'm sure this is a subject for another episode. Episode. We're not far off the Boxer Rebellion in China. And there's a great deal of concern about access to Chinese markets. And the United States is very, very interested in the Philippines because of its location. They also acquire. They annex Hawaii. The United States annexes Hawaii In August of 1898, just when the armistice was announced. The ceasefire during the war. So they're consolidating an empire in the Pacific. So this conflict, which started in the Caribbean, takes on a very different hue in the Pacific for the United States.

[Misha Glennie]

Mary carrying on with the consequences for Spain. We have, of course, in 1936, we have the Spanish Civil War flaring up with immense consequences. Can we trace back the defeat in the Spanish American War? Can we trace that civil war back to that? Or are there certain things which start moving at that time?

[Mary Vincent]

Yes, we definitely can. Though. Just before I answer that, I would like to say that did actually justify his policy in Cuba later on the grounds that the Americans had done it in the Philippines and the British had done it in South Africa, and that therefore somehow it was insightful and quite okay, which is obviously not the case. I think that does actually give you an insight into the military mindset in Spain. So at the end of the Spanish American War, the Spanish military is top heavy, overstaffed, has many staff officers. It actually has the ludicrous position of having 142 admirals for two warships. Warships. And the situation when the ground forces is not as exaggerated, but it's still bad. In pretty much 100 years, they have only defeated other Spaniards, a pattern that will continue into the 20th century. But they absolutely have an exaggerated sense of the imperial destiny of Spain. They have an exaggerated sense of their own importance in Spain and the Spanish nation. And they have a real position in the Spanish state which relies on them for public order, essentially. So they have that segmented position within the Spanish state. And in 1905, after military officers have marched into a newspaper in Barcelona and destroyed the printing presses because they didn't like what was being said about the army. The law of jurisdictions gives the Spanish military jurisdiction over civilians, where there is an insult to the honor of the army. So you have this extraordinary overreach of military jurisdiction, a reliance on the public order, and this exaggerated sense of the most defenders of the Spanish empire, defenders of the national destiny. You've got a direct route from there to 1936 and Franco's military coup. You also have, outside that, this mood of national introspection which becomes known as regeneration, when everybody agrees there's something wrong with Spain, but nobody can quite agree what it is. You have a bifurcated response, one saying Spain must modernize, Spain must Europeanize, Spain must be secular. And the other one saying, no, Spain must go back to the glories of its past and work out its own unique route towards the future. And there you have pretty much a cementing of two clear political traits that have been there since the early 19th century, but which you will actually, will actually fight each other in the 1930s in the civil War.

[Misha Glennie]

Final question about the Spanish American War. And again it's to all of you. What was the role of the media in this war? Steve?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Well, it was enormous in the respect that it galvanized public opinion in the United States in order to invade the island on the basis that they were going to help the Cubans free themselves from these beastly Spaniards who were treating them so awfully. And there was a huge media war going on, particularly in New York, between Hearst and Pulitzer and they were trying to outdo each other with salacious and sometimes quite outrageously exaggerated reports about Cuban or Spanish bestiality in Cuba. So yeah, it was, it was very important in, in, in that respect.

[Misha Glennie]

Yes, I saw a quote from William Randolph Hearst saying to a photographer, you send me the photos, I'll give you a war. Frank, is that, that is a, that

[Frank Cogliano]

is a, that is an actual quote. Historians argue, American US Historians debate just how influential this so called yellow journalism as it was called was. Steve's right. It was centered in New York. And of course New York was a very important city in the United States. And so therefore the New York media probably had a disproportionate influence on government policy after the sinking of the USS Maine or the accident that resulted in the sinking of the Maine. Remember, the Maine became a war crime. The press and Joseph Pulitzer and William Randolph Hearst each own mass circulation newspapers and they are whipping up this war fever and really demonizing the Spanish and creative, which helps persuade the American public, even the anti imperialists, that this is probably a good war if we, that is the United States help the Cuban people.

[Misha Glennie]

A last word, Mary, from you and

[Mary Vincent]

it's the inverse inspection Spain, it's the inverse in Spain. So that you have again, you have a popular press, you have a lot of jingoism, but it's absolutely about the glory of the Imperial Spain and standing up to defeating the, the American pig.

[Misha Glennie]

My thanks to Mary Vincent, Frank Cogliano and Steve Wilkinson. Next week, hallelujah, it's Handel's Messiah. Thank you for listening.

[Mary Vincent]

And the In Our Time podcast gets some extra time now. Now with a few minutes of bonus material from Misha and his guests.

[Misha Glennie]

What didn't we talk about a lot,

[Steve Wilkinson]

I think on the point of the press, I have to say that the so called Cuban junta, the leadership of the Cubans in exile that were supporting the insurrection, were very instrumental in feeding Hearst and Pulitzer with material. So there was a very direct influence by the Cubans themselves, themselves, on whipping up the hysteria in the United States because they did want the United States to intervene. And they were also instrumental in getting the Teller Amendment passed. Their lawyer, American lawyer Horatio Rubins, was responsible for actually pumping a lot of money into the Senate so that it would go through the committee without a vote. And so the Cubans were heavily involved in the policy politics at the time.

[Misha Glennie]

The Teller Amendment seems to me to be a good thing as far as the Cubans are concerned. Did they think they'd succeeded in their goals when that was passed?

[Steve Wilkinson]

It was very, very carefully worded document. I mean, it talks about the United States pacifying the island before allowing for independence and that that pacification clause gives the United States the authority to occupy the island military and govern it for such a time where they can actually establish a government that is to their liking. Essentially.

[Misha Glennie]

Frank, I was struck by how the Americans hadn't really absorbed that their push to the south and west of North America in the 1840s in particular was an imperial project in as much that they were taking territories away from people who already lived there.

[Frank Cogliano]

This is one of the curious things about American imperialism and the fact. And Americans do not see themselves as imperialist to this day. It's a very complicated question. They came up with a very effective system of geographic expansion. So that expansion within North America, the territories contiguous to the United States, because what they do is they add territories as states on an equal basis with the existing states. So they're not colonies, they have territories, they go through a territorial status end, but they're not permanent colonies. The change we see after 1898 is the United States is acquiring overseas colonies just like European empires do.

[Mary Vincent]

And it's also interesting because the last point brought out that Cuba is already looking to the states, that there are many people in Cuba that are already looking to the states. There are increasing trade routes. You know, there are those countries connections.

[Misha Glennie]

Well, because it's only 90 miles away from Florida.

[Frank Cogliano]

So you have this burgeoning economic power.

[Mary Vincent]

Yeah.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Contextualizing it, Mary. That's correct. Because in fact, the United States had all but taken control of Cuba economically prior to 1895. American investment there was enormous and most of the trade had already switched to the United States from Spain. So the, the situation was that Cuba had almost become a colony in economic terms, even prior to the war.

[Misha Glennie]

Mary, we mentioned very briefly you did, I think that they also acquired Puerto Rico. They did, but the Spanish don't appear to be terribly interested in Puerto Rico. Why is that? Because if you look on a map, you would have thought that's actually a very important territory.

[Mary Vincent]

I think it's really interesting how Cuba dominates the discourse in Spain. And I think Puerto Rico is quite often seen as, as kind of an annex to Cuba or they talk about the American colonists altogether. And I think that that really is. That it's sugar. It's sugar that cements that position of Cuba. That means it is comparatively rich, certainly compared to the remaining colonial possessions that Spain has. And that means that there are opportunities for those clienteleist networks, the elites, to span both Cuba and Spain in a way that doesn't happen with Puerto Rico. With Puerto Rico, and certainly doesn't happen with the Philippines.

[Misha Glennie]

And we should mention, Frank, that the Americans also arrogate the rights to occupy Guantanamo Bay at this stage.

[Frank Cogliano]

Permanently.

[Misha Glennie]

Permanently. So it's then used a little later

[Frank Cogliano]

on, indeed, in contrast to, or despite the Teller Amendment. So they have a kind of very expansive view of how they should deploy their power in the region. And Puerto Rico is attractive to the Americans as a naval base because they're also worried about Britain. They want to warn Britain off the Caribbean. They want to make it an American lake. Let's not forget they're about to build the Panama Canal.

[Misha Glennie]

Explain the importance of that. The Panama Canal.

[Frank Cogliano]

So there's an existing treaty from the 1860s between Britain and the United States that says they'll collaborate, operate on a canal across Central America. There's some debate about where it's going to be, but the Panama Canal, of course, will shorten the route to the Pacific. It will link the Philippines, among other places, and Asia more generally, to the Atlantic. And it's incredibly important. And it's a project that the French had initially begun. So there'd been long standing interest by European empires in a canal across, across Central America. But once the Americans remove Spain and consolidate their power in the Caribbean, they're going to build it.

[Misha Glennie]

Now, I can't remember if I get this right about my US presidents, but I think McKinley was followed by Teddy Roosevelt. What's Roosevelt's approach to all of this?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Well, he was Instrumental in the Panama Canal situation. Very much so. He was one of these people that was one of the great imperialists that Frank was talking about. About. Very significant was Secretary of the Navy actually dispatched the Navy to the Philippines before the war was even started. He was very into pushing the envelope of the world and when he became President, oversaw the establishment of Panama as a state. Really, I think he even had shares in the company.

[Frank Cogliano]

Well, and one of the things that happens is the war helps make him proud. President. So he was Assistant Secretary of the Navy when the war broke out. And as Steve said, he dispatches the Navy from Hong Kong to Manila on May 1, or the Battle of Manila Bay is on May 1. So soon after the war breaks out, he then resigns and raises a regiment, a volunteer regiment. That's a sort of aristocratic. It's a group of aristocrats who form a volunteer regiment.

[Misha Glennie]

He's.

[Frank Cogliano]

His uniform is tailor made at Brooks Brothers and they're called the Rough Riders. And he raises them and at one point they travel from Texas to Florida before they go to Cuba. And he's reading a book in French called the Superiority of the Anglo Saxon. So this tells you what you need to know about Roosevelt, his regiment. His unit. The Rough Riders play a key role in the battle around Santiago de Cuba in early July of 1898 with coincidentally, a unit of black soldiers. And I can say something about that in a second. But they seize the heights of San Juan Hill as the Americans will know it, and this makes Roosevelt a war hero. So he's both played a key role in the expansion of the Navy and believes in naval power and dispatches the Navy to Manila, joins the army, puts on his Brooks Brothers uniform and helps again. There's a very famous image of him atop San Juan Hill surrounded by his soldiers. So he emerges from this as a hero. When McKinley runs for President, runs for re election in 1900, he can't leave Roosevelt off the ticket effectively, and McKinley's going to be assassinated and Roosevelt will become President.

[Misha Glennie]

So Mary Frank's mentioned about the Americans relationship with Britain, that they sort of admired Britain. They're just overtaking Britain, as I understand it, in terms of. Of industrial power. Where does Germany figure in all this? Because Germany is also like the United States now, a new, growing and quite impressive power.

[Mary Vincent]

It's an interesting point. My understanding is that Germany's interests are territorially. They're quite different. So whereas there might be some competition in Africa, Germany looks further south, south to Africa. It's much more set on Britain and France. Spain, like Portugal, I think, is seen as an irrelevant. So obviously Portugal does still have colonies down in southern Africa. And for Spain, I think the fact that it doesn't have a navy anymore makes things is very significant on a world stage. So for Germany, I think Spain is irrelevant. Spain itself is pretty much divided between the elites, between pro Britain and pro German.

[Frank Cogliano]

The Americans are worried about the, the Germans as a possible threat in the Caribbean, but especially in the Pacific. So one of the reasons they annex Hawaii is because they want to beat the Germans to it. And, and Guam and Spain has sold

[Mary Vincent]

the Caroline Islands to Germany.

[Steve Wilkinson]

One thing we didn't touch on, which was, I think very important, is the extent to which the United States had designs on Cuba from very early on. I mean, as soon as the Louisiana Purchase took place in 1803, the leaders, Jefferson in particular, were very intent on, on trying to secure Cuba because of its strategic position in the mouth of the Gulf of Mexico. And that really informs a great deal of American.

[Frank Cogliano]

Jefferson writes a letter, Steve, early on, he says there are limits to our expansion. We only have to add Canada and Cuba and then nay plus ultra.

[Misha Glennie]

Frank, you mentioned something there about the black soldiers. So this is. You also said earlier he reminded us that the Jim Crow laws had been promulgated. And so three decades after the Civil War, and there's a rollback on the rights of African Americans in the South. Who are the Buffalo Soldiers?

[Frank Cogliano]

The Buffalo Soldiers are black soldiers. It's a quite celebrated group of soldiers in the U.S. army that had former fought against Native Americans on the Plains, the Great Plains in North America, and are deployed during this conflict. And they play a key role during the Battle of San Juan Hill. One reason they're sent to Cuba is because the Department of Defense believes that they will be more immune to yellow fever or less susceptible to yellow fever than white troops. So to some extent they're sent there because it's going to be dangerous. Dangerous. So. So their, their role in the war is actually quite important, particularly in that. That particular battle. But it also reflects the prevailing racial

[Misha Glennie]

attitudes of the day, unfortunately memorialized by Bob Marley.

[Frank Cogliano]

Yes, that's right.

[Misha Glennie]

Many decades later.

[Steve Wilkinson]

One of the other things that we should mention, I think somewhat frivolously perhaps, but two cocktails we get from, from this war. One, the daiquiri, which is where the American soldiers landed, and the kubali, which is a mixture of rum and Coca Cola.

[Mary Vincent]

And in Spain, you send poor people. You don't send black people, you send poor people.

[Frank Cogliano]

Empire's gonna. Empire so Mark Twain had something to say about this. He was a prominent anti imperialist and at the end he said so we, the United States, have joined the ranks of the civilized nation with the banner of the Prince of peace in one hand and the butcher's knife in the other. He's not wrong.

[Misha Glennie]

Good old Mark Twain. I think it's time for some tea or coffee. Thank you.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Tea.

[Misha Glennie]

We'd like coffee.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Tea? Tea.

[Mary Vincent]

I've got to go.

[Frank Cogliano]

So I wait

[Mary Vincent]

in Our Time with Misha Glennie is produced by Simon Tillotson and it's a BBC Studios production.

[Alan Davis]

Hello, I'm Alan Davis. And on BBC Radio 4, we're off into alternate realities mapped out by science. This is Life without, where I pull one thread from the magnificent fabric of life and watch what unravels.

[Mary Vincent]

Scientists around the world would be crying themselves to sleep.

[Frank Cogliano]

A bunch of mammals would be worrying

[Steve Wilkinson]

about where their favorite snack was.

[Alan Davis]

And we bring it down to earth.

[Mary Vincent]

David Beckham. I can imagine him putting that on the socials.

[Steve Wilkinson]

My bees of my girls have all disappeared.

[Alan Davis]

Sometimes we patch it up and crack on.

[Frank Cogliano]

We will survive.

[Mary Vincent]

We will survive. Humans are ingenious. That is our hallmark. Property we should prize above everything else.

[Alan Davis]

But sometimes it's bigger than us. Join me to find out just how far the unraveling can go. Subscribe to Life without on BBC Sounds.

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