Anna Leigh Waters: Mental Toughness, Financial Wisdom, and the Future of Pickleball | E145

Summary

In Search Of Excellence: Episode E145 with Annalee Waters

Host: Randall Kaplan
Guest: Annalee Waters
Release Date: January 7, 2025

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In this episode of "In Search Of Excellence," host Randall Kaplan delves deep into the world of professional pickleball with the reigning champion, Annalee Waters. At just 18 years old, Annalee has made history by becoming the number one player in singles, doubles, and mixed doubles at the tender age of 14. Throughout their engaging conversation, Annalee shares insights into her exceptional skills, the evolving landscape of professional pickleball, mental toughness, financial acumen, and her aspirations for the future.

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1. Dominance in Pickleball: The Annalee Waters Phenomenon

Annalee Waters attributes her unparalleled success in pickleball to a combination of innate intelligence, strategic decision-making, and a strong genetic foundation. Reflecting on her early years, she notes:

"Most people say what makes me really good at pickleball is my IQ. That was also what made me really good in soccer... my decision making is my best thing."
— Annalee Waters [00:02]

Her strategic approach on the court contrasts with many of her competitors, many of whom transition from college tennis without the same depth of pickleball-specific experience.

2. Navigating the MLP Draft and Team Dynamics

The discussion shifts to the intricacies of the Major League Pickleball (MLP) draft system. Annalee explains the strategic financial decisions teams must make when drafting players:

"They were given a certain amount of dollars they could spend on the entire Draft... how much is it worth to spend up, up, up to get Ben or whoever versus if you just get like four players who are around the same price type thing."
— Annalee Waters [01:59]

She highlights the competitive nature of the draft, emphasizing the importance of balancing top-tier talent with overall team depth.

3. Investment Growth in Pickleball: A Comparative Analysis

Comparing the investment trajectories of traditional sports with pickleball, Annalee provides a nuanced perspective:

"I think it's just depends on how much are you banking on pickleball. Like if you think pickleball is gonna explode and become like tennis or basketball or..."
— Annalee Waters [05:49]

She underscores the potential for exponential growth, contingent on factors like media coverage and public interest, while also acknowledging the inherent risks associated with emerging sports markets.

4. Infrastructure and Audience Engagement: Meeting the Demands

As pickleball gains popularity, the need for appropriate facilities becomes evident. Annalee discusses the challenges of accommodating growing audiences within the sport's relatively smaller court dimensions:

"We're definitely outgrowing what we have now. But we're not to the point where, like you said, we want like this huge Arthur Ashe stadium... people need to be close to the court."
— Annalee Waters [07:49]

She elaborates on the importance of safety and space, highlighting past issues with court layouts and their impact on player performance and injury rates.

5. The GOAT Debate: Annalee vs. Legendary Athletes

Engaging in a "greatest of all time" (GOAT) discussion, Randall brings up Roger Federer to draw parallels with Annalee's dominance:

"The best thing was in my Life. If I could just restart life... but nobody knew who I was."
— Annalee Waters [40:39]

Annalee reflects on her admiration for Federer, emphasizing strategic prowess over physical attributes:

"What's your best thing is strategy... plan A, plan B, plan C, plan D."
— Annalee Waters [35:02]

6. Mental Toughness: Overcoming Setbacks and Personal Growth

A pivotal moment in the conversation centers on Annalee's emotional breakdown during a high-stakes match at 16 years old:

"It was one of the worst days of my pickleball career... I was giving up."
— Annalee Waters [16:35]

Through this experience, Annalee learned invaluable lessons about handling pressure, maintaining composure, and the importance of mental resilience. She shares her ongoing journey in cultivating mental toughness with the support of her mental coach:

"My mental coach... helped me feel so much better about whatever it is I was calling him about."
— Annalee Waters [36:28]

7. Financial Acumen: Investments and Future Planning

Annalee's financial wisdom is apparent as she discusses her investments and the significance of early financial planning:

"If you put away a million dollars in the bank today... you'll have $21 million."
— Annalee Waters [31:02]

She offers a glimpse into her investment strategies, including real estate ventures and partnerships with prominent financial firms like Rockefeller.

8. Success Traits: Preparation and Positivity

Highlighting the role of extreme preparation, Annalee credits her rigorous training and strategic mindset as key drivers of her success:

"When you're practicing how you would play a match... being smart when you're on the court."
— Annalee Waters [35:02]

Her commitment to both physical training and mental preparation, guided by her mental coach, equips her to stay ahead in a competitive field.

9. Balancing Fame and Personal Life

Navigating fame at a young age presents its challenges. Annalee candidly discusses the pressures of public scrutiny and the importance of maintaining personal boundaries:

"Some people don't like you. Some people really like you... I feel like I'd feel much safer if a lot of people didn't know who I was."
— Annalee Waters [40:39]

She emphasizes the supportive role of her family in managing the demands of her public persona, ensuring a healthy work-life balance.

10. Aspirations and Future Endeavors

Looking ahead, Annalee envisions a future intertwined with the growth of pickleball beyond her playing career:

"Hopefully in the future, when I'm done with pickleball, I can figure out something in the pickleball space to continue working and staying in it."
— Annalee Waters [33:38]

She expresses keen interest in contributing to the sport's development, potentially through entrepreneurial ventures or strategic roles within the industry.

11. Final Insights and Advice

Concluding the interview, Annalee offers heartfelt advice based on her experiences:

"I would tell myself to just enjoy it. What you did was awesome and you should enjoy it."
— Annalee Waters [42:42]

Her reflections underscore the importance of balancing ambition with personal fulfillment, a lesson she imparts to both herself and her listeners.

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Key Takeaways:

• Strategic Intelligence: Annalee's high IQ and strategic mindset set her apart in the competitive world of pickleball.

• Financial Savvy: Early investments and financial planning are crucial for long-term success and stability.

• Mental Resilience: Overcoming personal setbacks through mental coaching fosters growth and sustained excellence.

• Balanced Growth: The future of pickleball hinges on strategic investments, media engagement, and infrastructure development.

• Personal Well-being: Navigating fame with strong family support and personal boundaries ensures a healthy balance between professional and personal life.

Annalee Waters exemplifies the essence of excellence through her multifaceted approach to success, blending talent with strategic planning and mental fortitude. Her journey offers invaluable lessons for aspiring athletes and professionals alike.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

How are you so much better than everybody else?

[Annalee Waters]

Many people have asked me if I play pickleball in another life, so that might be the answer to the question. But I've been playing for a while. I've been playing since I was younger. Like I said, a lot of the people I'm playing against played college tennis. Also, my mom was number one in the world before I was. So it might be in my genes a little bit. Might be a genetic thing. Most people say what makes me really good at pickleball is my iq. That was also what made me really good in soccer was my iq. I was just very smart. I was a good passer, a very good assister. My best thing wasn't my speed or how hard I could shoot the ball. It was always just, you know, I was very smart. Think on the pickleball court. It's kind of the same thing. Just my decision making is my best thing.

[Interviewer]

You're listening to part two of my incredible interview with Annalee Waters, the number one pickleball player in the world who became number one in singles, doubles, and mixed doubles at 14 years old. She's the go to pickleball. If you haven't yet listened to part one of my awesome interview, please check that one out first. Now, without further ado, here's part two of my incredible interview with Annalee. Are men players inherently better than female players?

[Annalee Waters]

It depends who you ask. Most male players are better than female players, but there are a couple female players who might be better than some of the male players. But it's this big. It was this big thing this year because we had the MLP draft, and there was this thing like, should you draft? Is it more important to draft a really good female, or is it really important to draft a really good male?

[Interviewer]

Like, and you were number one pick in the overall draft.

[Annalee Waters]

That was two years ago. Number one pick this year, Ben beat me. Unfortunately, he's number one pick.

[Interviewer]

Wait a minute. So you need. So it's not a permanent team. You.

[Annalee Waters]

It is now. It wasn't then when I was picked number one. Every year they did a draft.

[Interviewer]

And you were on the New Jersey.

[Annalee Waters]

Fives, and I was on the New Jersey Fives. Then they redrafted. This year, I was the number two pick still on the New Jersey Fives just because they wanted me. And they got lucky with their draft position.

[Interviewer]

It's a lottery, like the NBA.

[Annalee Waters]

It was this year for the first time. This year, it was. They were given a certain amount of dollars they could spend on the entire Draft. So let's just use a million dollars as an example. If they spent 900,000 on their first pick, they only had 100,000 to spend on their next three. Or if they spent $50,000 in their first pick, you know, they had $950,000 spend on the next three people. So that was also kind of a strategy, is like, how much is it worth to spend up, up, up to get Ben or whoever versus if you just get like four players who are around the same price type thing. But the New Jersey Fives got the second pick and they chose me. And then with the rest of our money, we were able to pick the other three players on my team.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so to be perfectly clear, what. What you're saying is, let's say the teams each get a million dollars to spend on players. They're paying you, not me.

[Annalee Waters]

They're paying the league.

[Interviewer]

They're paying the league.

[Annalee Waters]

They're paying the league. All the money that was spent was paid towards the league.

[Interviewer]

Okay, and then what do the teams pay you?

[Annalee Waters]

So the. The teams don't individually pay me. I have a contract with the PPA tour which pays me. And in my contract with the tour, I have to play these MLP events. I have to play. Play X amount of MLP events.

[Interviewer]

Do you get paid more the number one player than the number ten player?

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah. So the contracts. So back a year ago, when MLP was trying to take over PPA and they tried to get all these players to come from PPA and go to mlp, all these contracts started going up. Before then, we had no contracts. We just played the tournaments we wanted to. But then when the split happened, both sides were kind of freaking out and just kind of throwing all this money at people and, like, sign this contract for three years, we'll pay X amount of money, et cetera, et cetera. So that's when all the contracts kind of happened. And in the contracts it would say, like, you had to play X amount of days. Or in another person's contract, it would say you had to play this many PPA events, but then you had to play this many team events. So all the contracts are kind of different. They're not really the same because of that. So it's just this crazy thing where some players may have gotten more money than somebody who's better than them because they signed at the right time. Like, it was just this crazy thing. Like some players who aren't even in the top 20 are getting more money than somebody in the top 20, which is nuts.

[Interviewer]

Being paid from the PPA or and.

[Annalee Waters]

MLP, because MLP still has some of their contracts as well, but now the MLP is merged with the ppa, so they are owned by the same entity. Okay, so here's ppi, MLP owned by the same people.

[Interviewer]

Interesting. Okay.

[Annalee Waters]

This merger though did make it in the future and now easier for people to understand because they're kind of two different things now. One's not trying to take over the other one. So next year we're going to have a season of MLP and then we're going to have PPA tour events. So it's going to make a lot more sense next year than it has the past couple years.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. My friend Herb Simon bought the Indiana Pacers for $6 million, I don't know, 40 or 50 years ago, and the team now is worth $3.5 billion.

[Annalee Waters]

Good investment.

[Interviewer]

Good investment. Mark Cuban bought the Dallas Mavericks for $400 million. I think he just sold it for 5. A little over $5 billion. Professional pickleball teams, I think they were going for $100,000 or something like that. When they, when they got going, we.

[Annalee Waters]

Were offered to buy one of the teams, I think for 200,000 and we were like, I don't know. And now the teams are selling for like 11 or something like that. We're like two years later. Two years later, yeah. Should have probably paid the 200,000 for that, but crazy gotta do. You gotta make decisions based on what you know, at the moment. And we.

[Interviewer]

Do you think these 11 million dollar purchase prices are a good investment long term, given the growth and trajectory?

[Annalee Waters]

I think it just depends on how much are you banking on pickleball. Like if you think pickleball is gonna explode and become like tennis or basketball or. Yeah, so I guess you're going back if it's gonna be as big as basketball or. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As big as basketball or football. It's a great investment because like you said, these teams are now worth billions of dollars versus 11 million. But if you're like, I don't really want to, you know, gamble like, it's definitely a gamble because pickleball right now is going up and I think it's going to continue to go up personally. But if you don't think so, then it's not a good investment.

[Interviewer]

Like all professional sports franchises, the value of the teams go up proportionately with the value of the TV contracts. And we're still in its infancy today. Exactly where it's. So we'll see what happens. I Think.

[Annalee Waters]

I think the next couple years is probably going to determine kind of what happens with the sport. Like you said, if these TV companies are willing to pay for pickleball to be on tv, then I think you'll see it exponentially grow. But if in the next couple years people are like, oh, well, people don't like watching it on tv, then it might not go up. It might say the same might go down. Nobody really knows. But personally, I feel like now people like watching it on TV more than they used to because a lot more people are playing, playing the sport. It's kind of like golf. Like, when I watch golf, I respect it because I played golf. My dad played golf in college. Like, I know how tough that shot that guy just hit was, you know? But if you have never played golf in your life, you're like, this is the easiest sport. Like, it's so boring to watch. But people love watching golf because they know how hard it is. So I think the same thing's kind of gonna happen in pickleball. Whereas the more people play it and understand how hard the shots are, we're actually hitting on tv, the more they'll respect it and want to watch it on tv.

[Interviewer]

When you play a pro match, it's not like you're playing in a stadium. Arthur Ashe Stadium, there's nothing like that for pickleball. They're basically grandstands that are brought in. And it reminds me of a high school gym. Okay, right. I mean, so are there 500 to 2000 people watching live? And do they all sell out? And are people scalping tickets at this point for the best matches?

[Annalee Waters]

They definitely all sell out, especially towards the weekend. Like Wednesday and Thursday isn't like a sold out day, but Friday, Saturday and Sunday is all sold out, depending on the tournament, like the major. Some of the majors have like 2000 seats, 2500 maybe at nationals, the one we just had, or Worlds, I guess the one we just had a couple weeks ago, that was like 2,500 and it was completely sold out. Some other tournaments, maybe it can only seat, like, if you're going to a 500 points tournament, maybe it can only seat closer to 1000, maybe a little less. But that's always sold out and there's people standing. So I think we're definitely outgrowing what we have now. But we're not to the point where, like you said, we want like this huge Arthur Ashe stadium, especially because the pickleball court is smaller than a tennis court. So there's a certain point where it might look super small if you're on like Arthur Ashe, you know what I mean? Like, people need to be close to.

[Interviewer]

The court and just give people a size. On a pickleball court or it's 20ft by 44ft.

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah, it's a fourth of a tennis court, basically.

[Interviewer]

But you need at least 10 to 12ft. When we were building our court behind what we'll call the baseline, you know, behind the baseline. Because if not, you just don't have.

[Annalee Waters]

It's kind of dangerous, to be honest. Cause you're running from off the court, you know, into a fence or something.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Annalee Waters]

Because there's atps, which is around the post, which you're moving to the side. There's huge serves. Now you need room. If somebody lobs you, you need room. So I think honestly, when people are building courts, they're doing a better job now. But when they were first starting building courts, they were making them super tight and not giving people room. And that also might have been creating some injuries because of that.

[Interviewer]

I mean, I think people are limited by the amount of space they have in their home as well.

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, and you mentioned the room. So I am a weekend warrior and I've pounded myself into rusty fences. I have a huge scar here on my arm, and I have one here because I went.

[Annalee Waters]

You're dedicated.

[Interviewer]

Running. Running like an idiot into fences.

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But was it.

[Annalee Waters]

It was just at your house that you were running into the fences?

[Interviewer]

No, I mean, we have. I'm very fortunate. We have plenty of room at the house. It was at Santa Monica Pickleball Center. You know, I just ran into the fence and then we have a place.

[Annalee Waters]

Did you win the point?

[Interviewer]

No, I. I lost both points.

[Annalee Waters]

So it wasn't where the running into.

[Interviewer]

The fence and then the second one was in Coeur d'alene place called. Oh, yeah, you were telling me Gaza Ranch. And it's. It's basically a square metal. Friends of, you know, the little squares. And it's. It's, I don't know, four feet high. So, you know, the ball won't go flying onto the next court.

[Annalee Waters]

It's nice, but at the same time, it's kind of dangerous if it's not far enough away from the court.

[Interviewer]

I mean, it's far. Plenty of room. You know, I'm trying to make the great shot. Even though I'm not trying to make it, I'm trying to show that I can do it.

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Let's talk about being the goat, and I think for the goat oh, wow.

[Annalee Waters]

People call me the baby goat. I think this is the first time somebody's called me the goat.

[Interviewer]

So. And I want to start with Roger Federer. So let's talk about his stats here. So Roger Federer played in 1,526 singles matches and won nearly 80% of them. But interestingly, he only won 50% of the points within those matches. He won about 25% of tournaments he played. In his best years, he won a little over half. You've won 85% of your events. And the gap between you and the second best player is bigger than the gap between the number two player, the number ten player. You're only five foot six. And the thought in the tennis, you're only five foot six. And the thought in the pickleball world is, taller places, taller players do better. What are you doing differently? And why can't people come now and kick your butt?

[Annalee Waters]

Well, Roger Federer I looked up to very much when I was a kid. He's my favorite pro tennis player of all time. So I love that you used his stats. As far as my height goes, I think there's kind of in pickleball, this thing where you can be too tall because you just become this big target and you can't get as low. So I think, honestly, in my opinion, this isn't. Guys, I'm talking about women right now. I would say the best women pickleball players right now are anywhere from 5, 4 to 5, 10. But then the women who kind of are above that, maybe even 5, 10, is too tall. But, like, I think if you're above 5'ten as a woman, it's kind of a disadvantage. And maybe if you're below five'four also a disadvantage. So somewhere in that range, I would say probably the best height for a pickleball player is like five'eight so I'm a couple inches shorter than that, but it seems to be working.

[Interviewer]

How are you so much better than everybody else?

[Annalee Waters]

I honestly don't know. Many people have asked me if I've played pickleball in another life, so that might be the answer to the question. But I've been playing for a while. I've been playing since I was younger. Like I said, a lot of the people I'm playing against played college tennis. They didn't play pickleball, you know, growing up. So a lot of their strokes and stuff are very tennis like, whereas mine are tennis like, but they're also pickleball like, so that might be helping me. Also, my mom was number one in the world before I was. So it might be in my genes a little bit, might be a genetic thing, but I don't know. Most people say what makes me really good at pickleball is my iq. That was also what made me really good in soccer was my iq. I was just very smart. I was a good passer, very good assister. My best thing wasn't my speed or how hard I could shoot the ball. It was always just, you know, I was very smart. And I think on the pickleball court, it's kind of the same thing. Just my decision making is my best. Is my best thing. So maybe it's that my mom says my mom is always right. So my mom might be right on this. My mom says it's my mom's always right.

[Interviewer]

We've had people on the show, Many of the most successful people in the world on the show have said, never listen to your parents because only you know the best outcome for yourself.

[Annalee Waters]

Well, my mom, she's complimenting me in this, but she's saying, or she says that my mental toughness is what makes me the best. Because there have been many matches where I've been down a game and seven one and come back and won, or I've been down 10, two and come back and won the game. Like, I never give up and I'm a fighter. And I think that's what she thinks is what makes me the best. So maybe it's a combination of those two things.

[Interviewer]

You're only. Well, let's go back for a second. You said in the show maybe 30 minutes ago that you have all these other players now coming up, wanting to play and getting in the sport. There are better athletes today. I mean, some people who would criticize you and Ben being the number one players in the world, you were early. It was much easier to be number one. But you're still kicking everyone's ass today. And at some point, I mean, are the players getting better and better? Is the competition in the last five years or two years even one year been.

[Annalee Waters]

I think so. I think it's a combination of many things. I think you're seeing. I mean, there's still not even just Ben and I, but there are still players who are the best when Ben and I were the best, and they're still the best now because those players are still getting better. But you also see players who were great a couple years ago, and they haven't gotten any better. So, you know, they're not at the top anymore. So I think it's a combination of that. You've also got new players who are coming in who are getting really good, and a couple of them have made it more on the men's side than the women's side. I've seen there are more newer guys right now who are doing well on the men's side than there are the women's. There's a couple women, but also I think the fact that the paddles have gotten hotter, more spinny, has given people the opportunity to get better at things. So that's why maybe on tv, it looks a lot better as well, because we have better equipment, so we're able to do cooler things with ball, etc. Which also might be why players are getting better. So, I don't know. I think it's a combination of a lot of things, but there's definitely more room for newer players to get into the sport. I'm personally excited for when it's not like the college tennis players coming into the sport, when it's like kids who have played their whole life coming into the sport, I think that's when you're gonna see some insane pickleball. Like, if you've played pickleball from 7 years old to now, you're turning pro at 20 or whatever, they're gonna be amazing. Whereas if you played college tennis your whole life and you've played pickleball for two years, but you're a pro, you're not gonna be as good, you know? So I think it's gonna be really cool. Hopefully, I'll get to play against some of those people because I am younger in the future, but that would be awesome.

[Interviewer]

Throughout our careers, we all have moments that we're not particularly proud of. And you're extremely mature for your age, and I think. I'm sure it's because you come from a very mature, successful, educated family. And you're also worldly, right, because you've been dealing with adults. And I honestly get more nervous talking.

[Annalee Waters]

To kids my age than I do to adults.

[Interviewer]

But when you were 16 years old, you had an incident on the court where you lost, and you cheered the opponent who beat you, and you threw your racket and stormed off.

[Annalee Waters]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

What did you learn from that experience and how do you do it?

[Annalee Waters]

Not proud of that at all. So a little backstory on that event. So that was my fourth tournament in a row, so, like, a month. I had been playing a tournament every week that month. It was the last tournament, and leading up to the event, my trainers told me not to play my mom told me not to play. They're like, it's too much. But I was going for this record, which was seven. Gonna be seven triple crowns in a row. And it had never been broken or like somebody had set like six or something. But seven would be like, to break this record. And if I didn't play one event, it would reset. So I was like. I felt like in my head that I needed to play this event. I had to play this event. So I put a lot of pressure on myself. I was reading all these social media comments and people were like, oh, is she gonna break this record, like this weekend? So I was getting this all in my head, all in my head. And the girl I lost, who I actually warmed up with that morning, which I never do. I always warm up with my mom, but I warmed up with this girl Tyra this morning, who's actually a friend of mine. Now looking back on it, it's funny, cause she was new. She was like a new up and comer. So going into the match, I was feeling pressure. Everybody was saying this girl was really good. Was she gonna be better than me? I was feeling a ton of pressure going into the match. Also, like, sitting in the crowd was this guy on social media who had like hounded me, like, said bad things about me on social media. So I was like paying attention to that. I was freaking out in the court. The court was kind of weird. Like, I was. These are not excuses, by the way. I'm just telling you this could have not happened. But it's all going through my head when I'm playing the match. So I'm literally like going crazy. Like, I'm going on the sidelines, talking to my mom during the match. I'm rambling, I'm screaming. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. I don't want to be here. Like, I was basically like telling her that I want to lose, which I never do. Like I said, I'm a fighter. I always fight on the court. And this time I was just completely giving up. And the girl I was playing was playing extremely well. And we get to the third game, I won the second game, we get to the third game, and I have a chance to win this match. And I really just have a total mental breakdown on the court. And this has never really happened to me before, but I think it was just all the pressure I was feeling from all these outside things that was kind of weighing on me. And this girl was. Was playing really well. So I was like, you Know I was doubting myself. And then I ended up losing the match. And in my head, I was very psychotic at the moment. I was, like, so happy. That's why I cheered. I wasn't, like, cheering that she, like, I wasn't cheering to her. Like, congrats, you beat me. I was, like, cheering to myself, like, yay, finally I lost, which is so psychotic, like, looking back on it. And I tapped her paddle. I tossed my paddle at my mom. Looking back on it, terrible decision as well. Run off the court to my dad, like, go into the bathroom. Still freaking out. Like, that day was like one of the worst days of my pickleball career. Like, just everything that happened, I felt so bad. The next morning I texted Tyra. I was like, you played amazing. Great job. I'm so sorry. Like, I was feeling so much pressure that I just kind of, like, exploded at the end. And she had. She had played professional tennis, so she kind of understood. And she, like, texted me this really nice text back. Like, I get it, you're under a lot of pressure. Like, thank you for texting me back, whatever. And we're friends now, so it's okay. But looking back on it, it was not great. But I did, like you said, learned a lot from it. Now when I lose, I don't sprint off the court. I, you know, at least walk off sometimes. A lot of times I don't bring my bag onto the court. I just bring, like, my paddle and my water. So if I do lose, I just kind of, like, take my water, my paddle, like, walk off the court. I always shake my opponent's hand. I don't do anything crazy sometimes, even if I'm about to. This one time, I was getting ready to lose. I was down seven, one in the third. I was in my mind. This was like, kind of right after I had just lost a tire. I was like, analy, if you lose this match, I was like, going through what I was going to do in my head. I'm like, you're going to shake this person's hand, you're going to say, good match. You're going to walk to your bag, you're going to, like, slowly walk off to the court. I was going through everything, and then I ended up winning the match, which is crazy. So I think now just kind of saying, like, it's okay to lose. Like, you're gonna lose every now and then. That's a big thing. My mom told me. Cause, like, in my head, like, at that period, I hadn't lost in months. Like, a Long time. And I was just like. I felt like everybody on social media was like, pickleball's boring to watch. Annalee's winning everything. It's so dumb. Somebody needs to beat her. And I was letting everybody get to me. And I was thinking about stats, which is why I don't think about stats anymore, because they do get in my head. So I just think, looking back on it, it reminded me there are more things in life to pickleball, number one. Number two, you're gonna lose, and you can't act like an idiot when you lose. Number three is be respectful to your opponents, especially when they beat you, because not only is it, like, a big moment in their career, but it's also a big moment in yours, because I'm not necessarily losing all the time, so people don't really get to see how I lose. So if every time I lose, I act like an idiot, people are gonna say I'm a terrible loser, et cetera. But Gary Vee, actually, I was reading something about that he posted the other day, and it was like, you can't live your life worrying about what other people think about you.

[Interviewer]

I saw that post.

[Annalee Waters]

You did see the post. And I think that's something that, you know, I've been in the limelight. I'm so young. I'm still learning. I think my mom posted something like, I'm gonna make mistakes, but I'm also gonna learn from them. Like, after I did that, which I did, I learned from it. So I think just kind of focusing on myself and not what other people are saying about me on social media has been a big thing. Like, now, if I ever lose a match, I delete Instagram for a couple days. And, like, I don't want to see anything. So I've kind of learned a couple of things, like after that, like, on what to do to not let it get so big in your head. But of course, I'm sure I'm going to make another mistake, and I'll hopefully learn from that one.

[Interviewer]

Something I've learned in my own career in that I teach all my mentees and the people I coaches. We learn so much more from our failures than our successes. How much is losing contributed to your success?

[Annalee Waters]

100%. I think sometimes, too, in the past, I've gotten complacent with, like, winning a lot of things and then, you know, being like, oh, like pickleball. And then I lose, and I'm like, analy, what were you thinking? Like, get back out there. You know, start training harder and A couple weeks ago, I lost this women's doubles match. And it was, you know, in my head about it. I got super in my head about it. I was, like, calling my mental coach. I was talking to my mom, like, I need to work on this. I'm so bad at this. Like, whatever, whatever. And my mom was like, annaleigh, you lost three times in women's doubles this year. Like, you need to, like, like, take things, you know, like, don't just think about the last match you played. Like, you need to think about this whole year and what you've done and stop doubting yourself and believe in yourself. So I'm still learning things to this day when I lose. So I definitely think in the future, most of the things I learn in life will be from my losses.

[Interviewer]

You're a role model to a lot of young women, teenagers and adults, frankly. And you're a goddess in the prickle ball world, for lack of. And you are the goat. Do you feel the daily pressure of losing? And how much. How do you deal with that pressure? And then as a second part of that, what's your advice to all of the other young women who look up to you and feel the pressure, need to win? How do you best cope with that?

[Annalee Waters]

For sure, I haven't 100% figured out, you know, the best way to deal with it. I still think I'm trying to figure that out. But something that always makes me feel better is a lot sometimes. Or. This last tournament, I went and played an mlp and this girl came up to me. I think she was probably early 20s. She gave me this card and she was like, here, read this. We took a photo. She's like, read this later tonight or whatever. And I was like, okay. So I took the card and then I. I was in my hotel room and I read the card and it was like, you're so inspirational to so many girls and to myself. Keep being you. You have so much more to do in the pickleball world. It was just this amazing message, and it was so sweet, and it made me feel so good because on Instagram, I feel like even if somebody says 10 nice things about you, but somebody says one bad thing, you focus on the one bad thing. Which is why I've tried to stay off social media and stay off. I'll go on social media for my friends and stuff, but if it's a pickleball post, I don't read the comments, stuff like that. So it's really nice when somebody gives you a letter or tells you something. In person, and it's not just behind somebody typing something online. So it really means a lot to me when I get to talk to my fans, because I try to do that when I go to tournaments. I know some pros don't like to. They feel bothered by people asking them for autographs or talking to them. But I really like talking to my fans. Especially when my mom and I used to play together. Mother and daughters used to come up to us crying, like, oh, my gosh, you've inspired our relationship so much. Like, we've grown so much closer together by playing pickleball. So all those stories I have to remind myself of on the daily because, like I said, you see one negative comment or somebody says one negative thing to you, and you just think about that. So as far as dealing with the losses goes, I think I'd probably have a talk with my mom at least once a week about it, because I still haven't quite figured out how to deal with it. But I think I do a pretty good job with it. I also talk to my mental coach, and sometimes we'll talk for two hours, and it'll make me feel better. I don't know. There's just little things. I think one thing, too, is just being around people who love you. Like, I travel with my parents, and after a couple of years.

[Interviewer]

Your grandparents come half the time, too?

[Annalee Waters]

Yes, my grandparents come half the time. They're getting older, so they don't come quite as much anymore. But just kind of like playing your match and then getting to reset and just talk with your family. Like, if I were to travel by myself after I played a match, I'd probably just be thinking about pickleball, like, all night. But whereas we'll go to dinner and we'll have fun and, you know, maybe we'll go sightsee before the tournament or after the tournament or something like that to kind of get my mind off of it. So I think it's just having a good balance of, like, pickleball and life stuff. My favorite is life stuff. So I'm looking forward to this break I'm about to have after this tournament. Taking a couple days off pickleball, but then I'll get the bug and, like, want to play for six hours every day.

[Interviewer]

Again, let's talk about money. And when pickleball first got going, you win $500 for tournament. When you look at tennis, if you're lucky, right, you get free paddles and maybe some very small tokens like that in men's tennis and women's tennis. If you win the US Open, you earn $3.6 million each. Is pickleball going there?

[Annalee Waters]

I think eventually, like I said right now, with all the contracts going on, a lot of the money is tied up in these contracts and is, like, guaranteed money. So the prize pool at these tournaments isn't as big as it would be if you didn't have these contracts. It honestly might be. It's not $3.6 million if you win a major, but it'd probably be a lot of money and kind of would shock the world at, like, how much money pickleball players are actually making, like, overall. So I think once these contracts kind of run out, that's when they'll start putting that money towards prize money. And, like, a major will be millions of dollars if you win down the road.

[Interviewer]

So Ben Johns is the highest paid men's pickleball player in the world. 2.5 million. Kelly Wolfe, your awesome manager, came out publicly this year and said you're going to make over $3 million, which made you the highest paid athlete in the sport. You have sponsors like Carvana.

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah, that's a crazy one.

[Interviewer]

Selkirk and some of these other title tech companies. Sorry. Okay. All right, we'll redo that whole one. When you look at professional golf, you've got Scottie Scheffler, who this year alone, in just prize money, not sponsors, made 66.4 million. And the top golfer in the world, Nelly Korda, makes $3.7 million a year. What do you think the top pickleball players will be making five, ten years from now?

[Annalee Waters]

I really. I can't answer that question, but I can make a comment on how much more money Scottie's making than how much money she's making. Whereas in pickleball, it's much more even, like, to what Ben's saying, I'm making more money than he is. So it's kind of cool. And it's kind of always been this way where men and women in pickleball get paid the exact same. So I think in the future, it's honestly going to be like that, because the women's doubles matches are sometimes watched more than the men's doubles matches are, just because we have more fast hands exchanges. So they consider it more fun to watch, which is kind of cool, especially because growing up as a female athlete, when I was playing pickleball, I was like, oh, everybody gets paid the same. And then you look at all these other sports and you're like, that's not necessarily the case.

[Interviewer]

So let's talk about money for a minute. And when I started I co founded a public company, a technology company and at some point evaluation was worth $35 billion which at the time was more than the value of Chrysler, Ford and GM combined. The kid from Detroit that made that made news.

[Annalee Waters]

Did you start the company?

[Interviewer]

I was a co founder, one of four co founders so I was very wealthy on paper and when I went to meet all these money management firms, they all courted me. And I remember being with the president of Goldman Sachs who and I consider myself financially sophisticated but he gave me this problem and he said if you have, if you have a 31 day month and you have a penny on your first day, how much money do you. And it doubles every day, how much money do you have at the end of 31 days? And I was just, at some point you can no longer do the math in my head. And we talk about the value of compounding to creating great wealth saving and compounding and, and the answer to that question is $10.7 million. And I've won a lot of dinners on that question. Just doing some simple math. If you make $3.6 million this year and let's say 50% goes to taxes and coaches and travel and living, you're probably saving a million dollars. If you're being conservative and let's say today at I think you'll be 18 years old next month. But let's say you put a million dollars in the bank today and let's say every year thereafter you put away $750,000 per year which you should do with all your sponsor money. Money's gonna go up and up and up. After 13 years when you'll be 30 years old, you'll have $21 million. And if you invest in the market S&P 500 and just put it away, it's tax efficient. The s and P500, when you're 30 years old, you'll have $21 million. In 23 years from now when you're 40 years old, you'll have 68.6 million and 33 years from now when you're 50 years old, you'll have $190 million. And let's just go a little more than that. If you put away a million dollars in the $750,000 in 50 years, when you're 50 years old, you'll have $245 million. Wow, are you getting good financial advice at this point? And are everyone coming after you to say hey Annalee, Let me manage your money for you.

[Annalee Waters]

Funny enough. Let me ask my mom one question. Mom, where's the. With Marshall? What's Rockefeller? Rockefeller. Okay. So we live in a community in Florida. And there are a lot of wealthy people live in this community. It's like their second and third homes. So a lot of them have, like offered to help me and invest my money. We ended up with Rockefeller. So they're managing a lot of my money. My grandfather also was a business owner in Allentown. He owned cold storage businesses and he distributed all of Godiva chocolate for the entire country. So he just sold his company like five years ago. And he's been investing it. And one thing he likes to do is real estate. So he'll buy a house, flip it, and then sell it. So. So he. And I'm turning 18 like you said. So I'm wanting to move out of the house. So he suggested to me, obviously I do have money with Rockefeller, but he suggested to me to buy this house in Delray and flip it and live in it for a couple years and then sell it. And I'd make some money on it, especially cause South Florida real estate is booming right now. So currently I have a house that is completely gutted in Delray. My grandfather's helping, doing all the construction and renovating. So hopefully by March I'll be in my first house. So that's very exciting.

[Interviewer]

So I. You know, when you make money and you're financially sophisticated and you've done well, I've had a lot of people come to me for financial advice. And just as a disclaimer, I'm not giving financial advice on this show. Okay, but nobody beats the S&P 500 over the long term. No one after 30 years. I think Warren Buffett is the only person. And if you had met Warren Buffett in 1965 in Nebraska, you were lucky. But no one is going to do that today. Your advantage to people coming to money later is that you're making money at such a young age. And the compounding, really, when I talk about the one penny a month doubling, you have a chance to create enormous wealth. So I would advise you, as a new friend, S&P 500, put it away. No one's going to beat it over 30 years. Nobody. And you're not going to be charged fees. And when we're done with the show, I can show you a spreadsheet that someone charging fees that you think is 1% is a great deal over 30 years, you're going to be paying tens of Millions of dollars of fees that you don't really.

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah, I'll take all the advice I can get.

[Interviewer]

I'm going to send you a spreadsheet that is going to blow your mind, by the way. Okay. Do you have a personal financial goal?

[Annalee Waters]

Kind of. When I first started playing pickleball, I obviously knew I wasn't going to be number one in the world through my entire career because I was so young and I was one. I probably won't be number one in 15 years from now. I mean, I hope I am, but that's a very tough goal to set for yourself. So I always thought, like you said, I'm making the money now, and I have for the past couple. I wasn't making what I'm making now, but I was making a decent amount of money the past couple years. And like you said, I save money, so I've been saving it all. And I've always kind of wanted to be a business woman in the future, like, figure out, especially since pickleball is so new, what I can do in the space that nobody's done before or because I'm number one in the world, could help build or a specific company, like taking equity instead of taking money right away and trying to build that company. So I have a couple things in the works next year that I'm excited about as far as products go and things like that. But hopefully in the future, when I'm done with pickleball, I can figure out something in the pickleball space to continue working and staying in it, but maybe not playing professionally.

[Interviewer]

So let's talk about what makes people successful. And one of the things that's contributed to my success is something called extreme preparation. I'm writing a book by the same title, and that means when someone's preparing for a podcast, maybe one hour's one hour researching a guest. I've done 14 for this show, and that's my average. How much. How has extreme preparation contributed to your success of being the goat of pickleball?

[Annalee Waters]

I just think a lot of people say this, but when you're practicing, like, practicing how you would play a match is, I think, a really big thing. Some people maybe practice, maybe they're putting in six hours on the court, and I'm only putting in two and a half. But the two and a half hours I'm playing, I'm, like, working extremely hard. You know, I'm not hitting any shots that I wouldn't hit in a match. So I think preparing on the court is something that's really Helped me, but I also think preparing mentally. I think one of my biggest strengths on the court is strategy. And that's one reason, because my mom. My mom's like the best strategist in the game and we have a really solid game plan before I go out on the court. Whereas I feel like some players just go out and they're like, alright, let's just play. But they didn't know that person's backhand sucks. And if you hit the ball three times their backhand, they're gonna eventually miss it or do something stupid. I think a big thing is not only training really hard and practicing really hard, but also being smart when you're on the court about where to hit certain balls and if something's not working, changing that and not continuing to do the same thing over again, but having those, like you said, preparation in your head before you step on the match. So you have plan A, plan B, plan C, plan D. If things aren't working.

[Interviewer]

They talk about Michael Jordan being the best professional player ever in the NBA. Some people may say it's LeBron, but what really made Michael Jordan great was his mental attitude of winning. He was so competitive. You said you have a mental coach.

[Annalee Waters]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

How much of your success has contributed to mental preparation and having that coach?

[Annalee Waters]

For sure. My mental coach is Jack Llewellyn. He used to be the mental coach for the Braves. He also did a couple nascar, famous NASCAR drivers. So he definitely knows what he's doing. I think the main thing with him is not focusing too much on, like, oh, I have this mental problem or this mental block, but just kind of talking things through. Like, we could be on the phone for two hours and I'll tell him my problem and we'll go here and then we'll finally get back to here. Like, it's just this crazy thing where you don't really think you're talking about your problems, but by the end of the call you're like, man, he just made me feel so much better, you know, about whatever it is I was calling him about. But I also think something that a mental coach can kind of tell you to do, but you have to do yourself. And even before I had this mental coach, I think I was pretty good at it, was just being positive always. Even if you're down, like I said, 10, two, thinking you can come back and win, trusting yourself if you miss a shot. Okay, it was the right idea. Don't worry about it. Annalee. Next point, never being super negative on yourself. Smashing your paddle in the Middle of a match or yelling at yourself, telling yourself you're stupid, you hit a stupid shot. I try. When I'm on the court, I actually talk to myself a lot, but it's always positive. It's like, fight or be you or come on, Annalee, you got this like, you know what I mean? I'm never like, analy. You suck. You should stop playing pickleball on the court. So I think being positive is something really big that you can kind of prepare for before the match starts. But once you get in the match, you kind of have to keep reminding yourself of that.

[Interviewer]

You get to do some cool things. And one cool thing, and it's been hugely positive for you, is you met Ben Johns at a tournament. You guys have played mixed doubles together. You're the best team in the world. You just crush everybody. Did Ben Johns really beat your mom and you 11 nothing in ping pong when he was playing with a phone and a spoon, I don't think he.

[Annalee Waters]

Played us together, but he probably played us 1v1. Like when he played me 1v1. That happened with a phone. Yeah. But I don't feel too bad about it because he's beaten people way better than me and ping pong with the same thing. He played ping pong. Like he can hit with professional ping pong players. It's like crazy. Like he can be on a table, he's like hitting these crazy ping pong shots. Like me and ping pong, I have like a two handed backhand. I just fool around. But he is like, I think he could be like a pro ping pong player if he really tried to. He's really good.

[Interviewer]

A lot of people don't realize this. I mean, you watch professional football, you watch professional basketball, and there's a lot of trash talking on the court. There's also trash talking on the pickleball court, isn't there?

[Annalee Waters]

There is a lot more on the men's side. The women don't really trash talk, but the men can get into it sometimes.

[Interviewer]

What are they saying? Man, you can't get me. Kick your ass.

[Annalee Waters]

Like, if the guy's maybe a little shorter, he'll be like, you're too small or too short to get that. Or maybe it'll be like, no hands or that's a spot or way out, or that's a bag, which is like, when you hit somebody, it's called a body bag. So it'll be like, that's a bag. I don't know, things like that. Anything to get in their heads. Your women mainly yell when they win a point. They just scream really loud. That's kind of their trash talk, I guess.

[Interviewer]

You're a very attractive 17 year old millionaire, very mature. Are you dating and how are you meeting guys these days? Or you're not doing it at all?

[Annalee Waters]

I don't really have time for it at the moment. Not to say that I'm not looking for one. Like if there's the right guy who comes up, like I'd be interested. But I'm not like gonna go out of my way to like find me.

[Interviewer]

Comes up to at a tournament, says, hi, Annalee, I'm a fan.

[Annalee Waters]

I don't know, that might be a little weird. That might be a little weird if it's a fan. I tend to like think. I tend to find people who are very athletic attractive, but that's not always the best because my mom likes to tell me that professional male athletes might not be the best people to marry in the beginning.

[Interviewer]

I agree with you and you've heard all the stories and I have too. And I have friends that are professional athletes or actors or musicians.

[Annalee Waters]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

So yeah, fame brings a lot of. It's nice to be famous, I guess, because you're successful. But there is a huge downside to fame as well.

[Annalee Waters]

Personally, I always said the best thing was in life. If I could just restart life and snap my fingers would be to be super wealthy. But nobody knew who I was.

[Interviewer]

Do you know how many times I said that? Exact words. I tell my team that and it just. When you're doing something public and you're winning, everyone knows exactly what you're making. They don't know on the sponsor side what you're getting, but they do know prize money and it's being part of a public company.

[Annalee Waters]

No, it's true. And it's scary sometimes too because some people don't like you. Some people really like you. So like I've had a stalker at one event I had this one guy like hug me and like squeeze me and like mess up like my like sternum. Like I've just had like weird things happen to me. But at the same time it's kind of cool because I feel like I might have an impact on some people's lives, like by what I'm doing in pickleball, maybe giving somebody an outlet or something like that. So that's awesome. But at the same time I feel like I'd feel much safer if a lot of people didn't know who I was. But as far as dating goes, I Guess we'll see. Maybe you know somebody you can set me up with.

[Interviewer]

I mean, my son. My son would kill me for saying this, by the way, but.

[Annalee Waters]

He'S actually.

[Interviewer]

I mean, Charlie, he's a nice kid. He's 20 years old. He's very motivated, and I like to think he comes from a good family and he's humble, but he's gonna crucify me for saying this.

[Annalee Waters]

That's funny. But funny story, though. One of my MLP teammates, he's 26, and he tries to set me up with all of his friends. Every time we go to a tournament and his friends come, he's like, annalee, this one, I'm like, will, stop trying to set me up with all your friends. It's so funny. He's trying to set me up on the weekly basis, I think.

[Interviewer]

So 10 years from now, when you're still going to be considered the goat of pickleball, if you could go back and tell yourself something 10 years, what would you say to yourself? 10 years in the future, from today when people are going back watching this?

[Annalee Waters]

Probably I would tell myself to just enjoy it. I feel like, especially the last couple years, I haven't really enjoyed it that much. I've had fun in what I'm doing, but I never really sit back and think about what I'm really doing. And, Analie, this is really cool, all the things you're getting to do and everything. I feel like right now I'm just like, I need to get better. I need to work, which I also have to do that. But probably in 10 years, I'm going to be like, annalee, you probably should have enjoyed it a little bit more. Cause right now it just. It feels like my life's crazy and I'm always doing stuff, and sometimes I'm like, I just kind of want to be home. But I feel like in 10 years from now, it'll be like, analy. What you did was awesome and you should enjoy it.

[Interviewer]

We're getting to the end of our show now. I always conclude the end of the show with a game I call fill in the blank to excellence. Are you ready to play?

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah. Let's play.

[Interviewer]

The number one goal in my life is to be the best. My number one personal goal is to be kind. The biggest lesson I've learned in my.

[Annalee Waters]

Life is losing isn't the end of the world. My biggest regret is going crazy after some matches. Probably my biggest fear is not reaching my potential.

[Interviewer]

The craziest thing that's happened in my.

[Annalee Waters]

Career is A college soccer coach asking me to come play soccer at their university.

[Interviewer]

How much money was the professional soccer team in Germany going to pay you?

[Annalee Waters]

Nothing.

[Interviewer]

Nothing.

[Annalee Waters]

I think we were actually gonna have to pay to go through the program. Also. When I first started playing pickleball, we weighed like how much money I could be making if I was like the best soccer player ever, like Alex Morgan. And then we weighed what I was gonna be making. Like the first year of my pickleball career. We were like people in professional women's soccer making like $30,000 on average, like to play in the soccer team. And in pickleball, I was gonna be making that my first year. So we were like, that's a better option.

[Interviewer]

Jessica Burman's on my show. She's the CEO president of women's Major League Soccer. We're a team just sold by Willow Bay. Leading the team for. Just sold for $250 million.

[Annalee Waters]

Wow, that's awesome.

[Interviewer]

Where I think a professional women's team years ago would have been a few million dollars. So again, it's commensurate with TV revenues that are going to come into the sport and the explosion of popularity and women's female soccer.

[Annalee Waters]

Yeah, that's all. I love soccer, so I love seeing it do well, especially on the women's side. So that's really cool to hear.

[Interviewer]

The funniest thing that's happened in my.

[Annalee Waters]

Career is funniest thing that's happened in my career. I played in an exhibition once and I played really bad and I. I don't know, I thought it was pretty funny because I was like missing like really easy shots and the people thought I was gonna be good and I was like, terrible that day. I don't know what was going through my mind, but that was pretty funny.

[Interviewer]

The best advice I've ever received is just be you. The best advice I could give to any 17 year old is just be you. 10 years from now I'm going to.

[Annalee Waters]

Be doing something in pickleball or having a family.

[Interviewer]

Both.

[Annalee Waters]

One or the other. I don't know. I don't know that I could play professional pickleball and like be a mother and like have a family. So I think probably the latter. I'll probably be retired by then, but that's kind of. I'd only be 27, so I don't know. I haven't figured it out yet.

[Interviewer]

20 years from now I'm going to.

[Annalee Waters]

Be doing something business related in pickleball.

[Interviewer]

If you could pick one trait that's contributed to your success it is my positivity. The one thing I've dreamed about doing for a long time but haven't is.

[Annalee Waters]

Playing in the Olympics.

[Interviewer]

Do you think Olympics is coming to pickleball?

[Annalee Waters]

I do. I do.

[Interviewer]

If you didn't pickleball, I'll not repeat it.

[Annalee Waters]

Probably the next, like, eight years. I would say, like, maybe Australia.

[Interviewer]

The single greatest athlete of all time is.

[Annalee Waters]

Oh, this is tough, because what I'm gonna pick might not be the single greatest athlete of all time, but I love Roger Federer, so I'm gonna have to say him.

[Interviewer]

Have you met Roger?

[Annalee Waters]

I have not.

[Interviewer]

Do you want to meet Roger?

[Annalee Waters]

I do.

[Interviewer]

So how are you gonna do that?

[Annalee Waters]

Well, my agent, Kelly Wolfe, knows a lot of people in tennis, so maybe one day I've actually hit with Martina Hingis, who is number one in the world in women's tennis, because she knew her, but she doesn't know anybody close enough to Roger. So I don't know. I need somebody who knows Roger pretty well.

[Interviewer]

I actually don't think you do. I think, you know, I made my career cold calling people doing outrageous things. And I bet if Kelly calls Roger's agent and she obviously can get the name and just say that you wanted to meet Roger. Roger is definitely going to meet with you.

[Annalee Waters]

I would even fly to Switzerland. We went to Switzerland last year for our vacation. It was, like, the best vacation ever. So I would go back to Switzerland to meet Roger.

[Interviewer]

The one question you wish I had asked you but didn't is why I.

[Annalee Waters]

Started playing professional pickleball.

[Interviewer]

Why did you start playing professional pickleball?

[Annalee Waters]

Because I loved it.

[Interviewer]

How much is passion important to our success?

[Annalee Waters]

Passion is very important to our success, especially my success, because if I didn't love pickleball, I definitely wouldn't have continued to do it. I played tennis for four years and decided to stop because I didn't love it anymore. So that probably would have happened in pickleball, but I still love pickleball, so I keep playing it.

[Interviewer]

Ellie, this has been a great interview. I'm so happy that you're here. Been a fan for a while. Gonna continue to be a fan. Now that I know you. I hope I'm gonna be able to get good tickets to my first pickleball events.

[Annalee Waters]

Only if you bring your son, though.

[Interviewer]

Okay, I'll bring my son. By the way, I'll say this. I'll say this as well on camera. Charlie is a very good pickleball player. For the amount of times that he plays, he's played, and he loves to taunt me on this and he can pickle me, which means you lose 11 nothing.

[Annalee Waters]

I've done that in a pro tournament. I've actually super pickle someone, which is where you start serving and you continue out the entire game serving like you didn't even side out.

[Interviewer]

Love it. Love it. I appreciate you coming. I know you're very busy. You're going down a tournament. Hope you crush it. Hope you continue to follow your career.