Graham Weaver: How to Scale Bright Spots, Overcome Limits, and Achieve Asymmetry | E141

Summary

In Search Of Excellence: Graham Weaver on Scaling Bright Spots, Overcoming Limits, and Achieving Asymmetry | Episode E141

Release Date: December 10, 2024

In this compelling episode of "In Search Of Excellence," host Randall Kaplan engages in an in-depth conversation with Graham Weaver, founder and CEO of Alpine Investors, one of the world's highest-performing and fastest-growing private equity firms. Drawing from Graham's extensive experience, the discussion delves into strategies for scaling successful practices, overcoming limitations, and achieving asymmetry in both professional and personal realms.

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1. Starting a Private Equity Fund: Advice for Young Entrepreneurs

Graham Weaver shares invaluable insights for aspiring fund managers, particularly those in their mid-twenties considering launching their own private equity funds. He outlines a three-step formula essential for success:

• Identify Your Ideal Customer (00:50): Graham emphasizes the importance of meticulously defining the target investor. Instead of casting a wide net, focus on the 5% who are genuinely interested and capable of investing. "Creating a list of ideal customers is a way better use of energy than the effort put in calling 100 people, 95 of which are not ideal" (01:44).

• Craft an Irresistible Offer (02:00): Without a robust track record, Graham suggests leveraging personal attributes such as a strong will to win and a clear strategic plan. His "irresistible offer" was his unwavering commitment to making the fund successful, despite having no prior successful deals.

• Consistent Effort (02:45): Persistence is key. Graham advises having "lots of at bats," meaning consistently reaching out and engaging with potential investors to build a strong pipeline.

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2. Lessons from a Losing First Fund

Graham candidly discusses the challenges faced during his first fund, which resulted in losses despite strategic acquisitions. Reflecting on this period, he identifies crucial lessons:

• Risk vs. Reward (04:27): Initially focused on minimizing losses, Graham realizes the need to pursue investments with higher upside potential. "I use a term, asymmetry in investing," he explains, highlighting the importance of seeking deals where, if successful, the returns are significantly higher.

• Continuous Improvement (07:43): Learning from failure, Graham underscores the value of continuous improvement and implementing rigorous processes to enhance performance. "Without experiencing loss, we might not have been driven to get better."

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3. The Importance of Executive Coaching

A pivotal moment in Graham's journey was his decision to hire an executive coach, JP Flom, during a tumultuous period for his firm. He attributes much of his subsequent success to this investment in personal development:

• Personal Transformation (09:27): Graham describes how executive coaching shifted his perspective, helping him realize that Alpine is fundamentally a "talent business." This realization led to strategic enhancements in team building and leadership.

• Impact on Company Culture (11:24): The adoption of coaching practices permeated Alpine, leading to over 130 Kaizen projects focused on continuous improvement. "It's these leaders being able to just invest in themselves," Graham notes.

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4. Shifting Mindset: The Utility of Money

Graham offers a profound perspective on money, debunking common motivations tied to status and material possessions:

• Peace of Mind Over Stuff (26:59): "95% of the utility of money comes from not having to worry about money," Graham asserts. He advocates for shifting focus from accumulating possessions to achieving financial security that alleviates stress.

• Redefining Success (29:21): For those driven by money, Graham advises redefining what financial success means, emphasizing sustainable wealth that supports personal well-being and the ability to help others.

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5. Asymmetric Life Principles

Drawing parallels between investment strategies and personal development, Graham outlines four principles to lead a "wildly asymmetric life":

1. Do Hard Things (40:42):

   • Embrace challenges as the gateway to growth. "Everything you want in life is on the other side of doing something you don't want first."

2. Do Your Thing (40:42):

   • Align your work with your passion. "If you're doing something that truly excites you, you're going to be unstoppable."

3. Do It for Decades (40:42):

   • Commit long-term to compound your efforts. Graham relates this to his 23 years running Alpine, emphasizing continual improvement over time.

4. Write Your Story (40:42):

   • Clearly define your life goals and work backwards to achieve them. This involves envisioning your ideal life and systematically planning steps to realize that vision.

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6. Time Management Strategies

Effective time management is another cornerstone of Graham's success, rooted in aligning daily activities with overarching goals:

• Prioritize Goals (59:35): Schedule dedicated time blocks for activities that advance your primary objectives. "Blocking the time on the things you want to do" ensures steady progress towards your goals.

• Manage Email and Interruptions (60:27): Recognize that reactive tasks, like managing emails, often do not contribute to personal objectives. Graham advises strategically integrating such tasks without letting them overshadow important work.

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7. Hiring and Interns at Alpine

Graham elaborates on Alpine’s rigorous hiring practices, focusing on academic excellence as a proxy for strong work ethic:

• Academic Correlation (55:26): "The undergraduate grades and performance have been really correlated to doing well on the job," Graham explains. Alpine prioritizes candidates from prestigious institutions, assuming high grades reflect the requisite dedication and preparation.

• Internship Program (48:27): Emphasizing the value of hard, often tedious work, Alpine's internship program involves comprehensive tasks that contribute to the firm's extensive beach database. This approach cultivates resilience and a strong work ethic among interns.

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8. Personal Insights on Success and Family

Graham reflects on the interplay between professional success and personal fulfillment:

• Balancing Wealth and Happiness (22:38): Despite accumulating substantial wealth, Graham acknowledges moments of depression, highlighting that financial success does not automatically equate to personal happiness. His journey underscores the importance of aligning financial goals with intrinsic values.

• Family Influence (34:29): Graham shares how his entrepreneurial journey positively influenced his children, instilling in them a strong work ethic and dedication akin to his own experiences.

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9. Final Reflections

In a concluding segment, Graham and Randall engage in a rapid-fire "Fill in the Blank to Excellence" game, offering deeper personal insights:

• Professional Goals: Graham aims to build the "number one performing private equity firm of all time."

• Personal Goals: His aspiration is to "live my life in a way that I'm creating as much impact on everyone who's in my life as I can."

• Biggest Regret: Missing early moments with his children due to his intense focus on building Alpine.

• Meaning of Life: "Each person has to find their meaning of life," Graham muses, reflecting his ongoing quest for purpose.

• Best Advice Received: "Ask yourself what you would do if you knew you wouldn't fail and then go do that thing."

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Key Takeaways

• Strategic Focus: Identifying and targeting ideal investors is crucial for fund success.

• Resilience Through Failure: Learning from initial setbacks can drive significant long-term improvement.

• Personal Development: Investing in executive coaching can transform leadership and company culture.

• Mindset Over Materialism: Financial peace of mind trumps the pursuit of status and possessions.

• Long-Term Commitment: Consistent effort and dedication over decades yield substantial rewards.

• Purpose-Driven Time Management: Aligning daily tasks with core goals enhances productivity and fulfillment.

Graham Weaver's candid revelations offer a roadmap for entrepreneurs and professionals aiming to achieve unparalleled excellence by leveraging discipline, continuous improvement, and a strategic focus on what truly matters.

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Notable Quotes:

• "95% of the utility of money comes from not having to worry about money." — Graham Weaver (00:00)

• "Find what's working and do more of that." — Graham Weaver (17:55)

• "Everything you want in life is on the other side of doing something you don't want first." — Graham Weaver (40:42)

• "It's these leaders being able to just invest in themselves." — Graham Weaver (16:19)

• "Exposure to difficult challenges is where the true growth happens." — Graham Weaver (Contextual paraphrase)

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This episode serves as a treasure trove of insights for anyone striving to excel in their professional endeavors while maintaining personal well-being and fulfillment.

Transcript

[Graham Weaver]

People probably hate when they hear people who've made a lot of money say this, but I would say 95% of the utility of money comes from not having to worry about money. I think a lot of times people are focused on stuff and status. That's really what they want money for. And again, sounds very cliche to say those will not do very much for you for any long period of time at all. On the status part, no one gives a. And on the stuff part, you know this, anything you've ever bought, you get a little bit of a boost and then it goes away. So that really doesn't provide that much utility and maybe even negative utility in many cases. What I think provides the utility is the peace of mind of not having to worry about money.

[Randall]

You're listening to part two of my incredible interview with Graham Weaver, the founder and CEO of Alpine Investors, one of the highest performing and fastest growing private equity firms in the world. If you haven't yet listened to part one, be sure to check that one out first. Now, without further ado, here's part two with my incredible interview with Graham. So you started your own fund. What's your advice to the 28 year olds out there or the 25 year olds we all know, and I'm sure there's people who may even leave your firm, they want to get their own firm and they can grow it and they want. A lot of them do it because they want to grow it themselves and a lot of them will do it for the money. But it's the same way in the VC business. You know, you want to start a fund. What if you don't know Tom Steyer and what if you don't know somebody? What's the, what should you, what are the three things you should do to start a fund? If you don't have relationships, you don't go to Stanford and you don't have friends that have money.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah. And to be clear, I didn't know Tom, I'd never met him before.

[Randall]

But. But, yeah, but if they can't even pick somebody.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah. Same advice though. I think that the first is. So I'll use, I'll use a real example for fun for myself because I can talk in more detail about that. So let's say you were raising a first time private equity fund to do buyouts is the first I talk about in sales, you know, you first find your ideal customer. That's the first part and that's huge. If you're selling, no matter what you're selling, you find the ideal customer. So if you're raising a first time fund that's going to do industrials, for example, let's find all the people who do first time funds and do industrials. Like I know it sounds simple but probably 95% of investors are going to call on, are not even interested in first time funds or industrials. So the effort put into creating a list of ideal customers is a way better use of energy than the effort put in calling 100 people, 95 of which are not ideal. So that would be advice number one. And there are tons of investors that only do first time funds or have allocations to first time funds. And so, you know, today with AI and I mean it's not going to be that hard to find out who those people are. So that's kind of part one is get rid of the 95% figure and put all that energy on building as big a pipeline as you can of that 5% who's actually going to buy your thing. Second is, I always say the second. So first is ideal customer. Second is irresistible offer. So, you know, and so what's your irresistible offer? Like if you sat on the other side of you and you were, you know, you had lots of funds to look at, what would make you have to say, yes, you know, what is that thing? And in my case, I had zero track record. My irresistible offer was conveying my will to win and how my track record from the rest of my life and will to win was going to translate into running a private equity firm. That was my irresistible offer. It wasn't my track record of three label deals that didn't work out. It was my kind of what I was saying, my will to win. Like I'm going to make this work come hell or high water. Here's the plan I have that was kind of my irresistible offer. And then the last thing is you could just need lots of at bats. So those are the, I think that's the kind of three part simple formula really for selling anything. And almost anything will yield to that formula.

[Randall]

So you said that first fund, I think you made eight investments, five lost money, the fund didn't make any money. But you're sitting in a room with Tom overlooking Alcatraz. One of the mistakes you made was you wrote a memo to the investors that it was impossible to lose money. Right now that's not a very good memo to write. So what lessons did you learn with that memo?

[Graham Weaver]

Well, the memo I wrote about impossible lose money was because we bought three companies below their net asset value. And that, in my mind, said, well, how could you lose money paying below net asset value? It turns out you can. And we did. So the first lesson was probably we were looking for. I was so inexperienced and so fearful that I was spending all my time trying to buy businesses where I was not going to lose. I was focused on not losing. And the magic that I've found subsequently is the opposite of that. Like, looking for ways where if things go right, they go really, really, really right. So, you know, I use a term, asymmetry in investing, and you have, I'm sure, see this all the time in venture capital, too. I'm sure that's a huge part of it. But, like, I don't want to invest in something that, if it goes right, is gonna be a 3x deal. You know, that's because I know they're not all going to go right. And I need things that if they go right, they can be a 20x. Even in buyouts, I want to have deals that are like that. And in the early days, I was exactly flipped the opposite. I was looking at things that if they went right, maybe they were going to be a 2x, but I thought there was a really low chance they'd go wrong. And it was just based on fear, you know, it was just inexperience and fear. But, yeah, losing money on that first fund was. It was an. Like, now when we fundraise, the first fund is kind of a fun story to tell. It's like a footnote. People really like. They kind of like it. They're like, oh, yeah. You know, most people had some hard things they overcame, but at the time, it was 11 years. You know, that wasn't like a footnote. That was 11 years that we had to work out that fund. And we had 11 years where we had longer than that, where we had that anchor hanging around our neck from losing money on that fund. So it was. I definitely do not recommend having a lot losing money on your first fund. It was really tough.

[Randall]

Steven Romick is a good friend. FPA Capital, I think they manage $20 billion, maybe $22 billion these days. He's been up for Morningstar manager the decade before. And I remember having lunch with him one day, and he's in a suit and tie, and I said, steve, you look so nice. What's up? He said, oh, something stupid. I said, what's up? He said, yeah, I've been nominated for Morningstar Manager of the Decade. Oh. I said, wow, that's incredible, Steve. Wow, congratulations. He said, it's only a matter of time before I look like a fucking idiot again. And he meant it. So I think you have to be very humble and have humility as an investor. Absolutely. It really doesn't matter if you're private equity, venture capital, whatever the case may be.

[Graham Weaver]

I think that's the real benefit of us losing money on the first fund was we had to get better. Like, we had to get a lot better. We had to have one of our core values of continuous improvement. You know, I started hiring executive coaches. I just had this belief that I, we needed to get better. And that's never ended. You know, I think if our first fund had been like a good fund, we'd say, oh, we kind of know what we're doing. You know, we'll just keep doing that. And it was the opposite. We just, we, like, we're. Right now, I mean, I'm 23 years into running Alpine. We've had a really amazing run and we're almost starting over. Like, we're, we're, we're taking our firm down to the studs. We're, you know, really looking hard at our strategy. The way we're structuring our firm. Our. I mean, we're not starting over, but, you know, we're, we're looking at like, almost like I'm a day one CEO walking into Alpine. What would I do? You know, how would I structure the firm, the investing team? You know, what, how would I look at sourcing? I mean, we just have a real intense focus on getting better and it came probably from losing money. The first fund.

[Randall]

I think one of the interesting things that you did and will fund an entrepreneur for a second time, even though they lost money on the first time, depending on how they handled the situation and communication.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

So your two investors invested in your second fund again.

[Graham Weaver]

They did.

[Randall]

They liked you. They backed you, which is very hard to do. It's a $68 million fund.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

And then you had several things happening during that fund. You had the dot com explosion, which I was very fortunate and lucky to be a part of. And then you had Lehman Brothers blow up.

[Graham Weaver]

Yep.

[Randall]

And I think you had your first child right around that time.

[Graham Weaver]

Yep.

[Randall]

And you had spent the last dollar of that fund and you realize you needed to do something different. So you hired an executive coach. We're going to talk about the details of the lessons you learned, but why did you say I need to hire this guy, JP Flom and. Because most people don't have the self awareness and would never hire an executive Coach in a situation like that?

[Graham Weaver]

Well, first, at the time, I mean, in 2008 or 2009, the term executive coaching was actually pretty novel. People didn't know what that meant. I didn't know what that meant. But as I talked to jp, who I was so lucky to be introduced to him, I was like, yeah, this is kind of basically another version of going back to the audio tapes. You know, I'm like, hey, I'm, I'm gonna just like really invest in my self improvement and I can get better as a leader. And JP was just life changing because he came from a background of talent assessment and executive coaching. So he was kind of the marriage of those two things. And it was absolutely life changing because I really started to just completely shift my mindset. And you probably have heard me say this before, but by the end of our engagement or even in the middle of our engagement, I remember writing on this in my notebook, I am in the talent business. Like that's actually the true business I'm in. Yes, I'm applying that to software companies or services businesses or private equity firm. But like the true business I'm in is a talent business. And then, so the realization of that, like at a cellular level was really powerful. And then, and then the application, the tactics of how to actually roll that out, that was what I, I got from him. And that was, that was absolutely, you know, transformative.

[Randall]

I get lots of emails and I had lots of emails coming in, oh, I'll give you some executive coaching. Most of these are kind of ridiculous. We talked about, you know, people who have, are teaching these lessons online who have never managed a Starbucks before. How did you evaluate, first of all, how did you meet jp? And then how did you evaluate? At what point did you realize, yeah, I trust that guy because at some point it's a leap of faith.

[Graham Weaver]

I had a number of meetings with him and so I met with him and I really liked him. He had, you know, I really, I really, he was a real magnetic person that was just speaking a language that I understood and I could kind of like, I could understand how what he was pitching was really going to help me. But this is actually the story. This third time I met with him. So I was with a analyst. I don't remember why, but I took him to lunch. So the three of us are at lunch and JP's like, all right, I'm just, let's just do a, like, let's do an actual real thing here. Okay, I'm not going to explain this in theory. Let's actually do it. I said, okay, great. He said, tell me a problem you're having. I said, okay. I told him a problem. He said, okay, so it sounds like you're having this problem with the CEO and you need to deliver this really tough message to him. I said, yeah, that's exactly right. He said, okay, let's practice. Why don't you do it? I'll be him. I'll be the CEO. You be you. Okay, deliver it. And I deliver it. And he said, okay, you got to amp it up a lot. You were really kind of like, you weren't really getting your point. You know, I want to see a 10, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, where you're being really direct and really harsh. Give me a 10. And I. So I delivered it in my mind. I was a 12. I was like, you know, just going at it. And then JP Said, okay, so how do you think you do? I said, I think I did really well. He turns to this analyst who's sitting here. He goes, he goes, scale 1 to 10. And the analyst goes, 2. And then we worked on it, and we worked it out, and I got to, like, probably an eight. I delivered the message to the CEO, like, that afternoon, and the CEO, like, absorbed it. And we made, we got through the thing and that, and I hired him, you know. Cause I was like, okay, that was, like, that was actually worth a price of probably your first X months of coaching right there just with that exercise. So he, maybe that was why, you know, I, I gave him a lot of credit for that. I, I still joke with him about it.

[Randall]

Are you comfortable saying what he charged you? And then how did you think about return on investment and executive coaching?

[Graham Weaver]

Oh, yeah. I, I, I mean, I'll, he, today could charge anything he wants.

[Randall]

And he, he's a big deal.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, he, he could, he could charge whatever he wants to charge and people would pay it, and he doesn't, I don't even think he does coaching anymore. But back then, you know, he was scrappy. And I think his normal fee for six months at the time was like, gosh, I might get these numbers wrong, but directionally, let's say it was like $150,000 or something, which is a lot for six months.

[Randall]

A lot.

[Graham Weaver]

We, by the way, didn't have management fees coming in because we hadn't raised a fund. It's the recession, so, like, that's a lot of money anytime. But back then. So I think he cut it his, you know, he was feeling the Recession too. So I think he gave me like a half price. So it was like $70,000 I think, which is still a ton of money for us at that time. And so to this day I don't really know why what got me over it, but I guess it was going back to the Tony Robbins days where I just kind of like felt like I wanted to make an investment in myself and my self improvement. So then I had an assignment with jp. Life changing really. Shortly after that I had another coach named Tom Vacola who was completely. Coaches like a word like leadership or something. I mean it means tons of things to different people. Like it's. So the second coach I had this guy Tom Vakole and his wife Francis Fuji, they taught lean manufacturing, which is crazy because you wouldn't think a private equity firm would need lean manufacturing. But then that gave us practices like process mapping and continuous improvement. Kind of the Kaizen process that we use. I mean we've done to this day we've done like 130 Kaizen projects at Alpine. That's just been life changing. So I just had some great coaches today. I have three and I'm just, it's so fun. Like I just, I love learning things, I love getting better. We have 23 coaches now kind of on the Alpine platform. And I think we're doing like 500 coaching engagements right now across our portfolio. So it's a, it's, it's, it's just, I think it's just phenomenal. It's just like it's these, it's leaders being able to just invest in themselves.

[Randall]

So talk about the three promises that he instilled in you. And then what, what are they and how do they work?

[Graham Weaver]

So our three promises at Alpine, you mean? Yeah, yeah. So we, one of the things we came up with is. We came up with our three pillars, which is, you know, be the number one performing private equity firm in the world as measured by net moic. That was one of our pillars.

[Randall]

Tell people what net means.

[Graham Weaver]

An investor gives you, you know, $10 million, how much money you give them back. A lot of investors measure their performance on irr, which is the rate of return that you're getting. Rate of return kind of takes care of itself. If you give them back a high, a high number. But you can play around with the IRRs. You could give someone back 1.2 times their money in a really high IRR with, you know, it's just, it's just. So we focus on net moic. So we want to be the number one performing fund in the world as measured by net moic. We want to be the place where the best people want to work and spend their careers. And then we want to be a place that has social. Where we're a force for social good. Those are our three promises that we make. And then if you look at pretty much every activity that we do falls into one of those three categories.

[Randall]

What was the main lesson that he taught you after. When you were working with him all this time with Tom? No, that JP.

[Graham Weaver]

JP?

[Randall]

Yeah. Taught you.

[Graham Weaver]

I mean, JP's biggest thing that he taught me was probably. I mean, a number of things, but we're in the talent business. And then how to invest in talent was probably one of the biggest ones. And then we just did. We would always do a practice of overcoming limiting beliefs. So you'd throw out some incredible goal, like a genie goal or something, and then you get flooded with all these reasons you're not good enough or you're not going to do it. And then we'd kind of like write all those down on a piece of paper and overcome them one by one. And that was a really, really powerful way to go, go through that.

[Randall]

So a lot of people, when they're analyzing a problem and how to get better, they really don't. They think about how to fix all the things that we've gone wrong.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

What's wrong with that?

[Graham Weaver]

So there's this awesome book by Dana Chip Heath called Switch, and they have a chapter in there called Scale youe Bright Spots. That chapter has probably made Alpine more money than any any other chapter in any other book I've ever read, including any. You could all Warren Buffett's things. So basically, what they say is the best strategic statement of all times is find what's working and do more of that. It's the simplest thing. It's better than. I've read 17 books on strategy. Those nine words, find what's working and do more of that is the best strategic statement that I've ever come across. So it applies to absolutely everything. So you have a great employee who's crushing it and doing amazing things. Find ways to give them more capacity, give them more resources, more capital, whatever. So find what's working and do more of that. We launched a CEO and training program. We had a couple people in there that were doing really well. Okay, that's great. There's a bright spot there. We've scaled that. You know, here's some industries that have worked out really well for us. Let's find More that look like that. You know, we had really a great luck with this one. You know, particularly way of sourcing deals direct to founders. Let's just scale that. So it's just been. It's just. And it's just way more fun. You know, you're focusing on your strengths. You're focusing on the things you're good at. You're holding your best companies longer. You know, it's just. It's the simplest way to run a firm.

[Randall]

At what point should people get an executive coach? Does everybody need one? And how do you find one if you have no idea where to go?

[Graham Weaver]

I would say yes. And the reason I think everyone needs one is I'll use myself as an example. Like, I'm probably In the top 1% of the world in setting goals, let's just say. I mean, I write them down, I teach classes on it, and I still love. I benefit tremendously from having a coach just create space to hold me accountable, to setting and then looking at how I'm doing against my goals. Like, so it's like a personal trainer for your life. Like, I don't need a personal trainer to go figure out what waist lift. But what if you had a personal trainer who's just making sure that you're on your life path? Like, it. Like there's. I don't think there's a better investment.

[Randall]

You could make therapists do that, though.

[Graham Weaver]

Therapists, a lot of times are looking backwards. I mean, this is the simplest way people define the difference between a coach and a therapist. And I don't. It's a blunt way to describe it, but therapists are going to want to know, like, hey, tell me about mom and dad and all that. Coaches are looking forward. Where do you want to go? Where do you want to be? What's. What are your goals? What's your dream? What's your vision? What's your path? And I think. And so. So it's a personal trainer for, like, you being on your life path. I mean, I think everyone should have one. The other thing is you activate different parts of your. Your brain when you talk than when you write or you think. So you have someone here that you're talking and you're activating, you know, your energy to go, you know, in the direction you want to go. So I think, I think coaching is incredible in terms of how to find them. I mean, there's a whole bunch of platforms that you could look at online. I don't know that I have a great algorithm for that, but there's International Coaching Federation. There's betterup, there's Tony Robbins coaching, there's co active coaching. Those are all resources that you could give to your listeners. And then you do a trial with a number of coaches and see if there's a fit because you really definitely want to have a good fit with the coach.

[Randall]

Most people listening to this show cannot afford a coach. So what do you do if you can't afford one?

[Graham Weaver]

I would say find one of your really close friends that shares your passion for personal improvement and coach each other. So I did this with my roommate in business school. I had, my roommate and I, we used to get together and we would basically coach each other. You know, we'd spend 30 minutes, we go on a walk and spend 30 or 45 minutes talking about him. And we turn around, spend 30 or 40 minutes talking about me. So you can, you can just do. You can do this with a really close friend. And then the magic of that is you'll have, you'll actually, you'll actually, your friend will know you really well and you'll also create a really deep friendship with that person.

[Randall]

Many people in the private equity business go into it because not only are they interested in but they go in for the money.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

Like we all know you read the Fort 400 and I don't know how many private equity people are on, But I'm guessing 10% or more in the private equity. And I've had, I've had some of those people on my show who have been great the way to make money in the private equity business on something called carried interest.

[Graham Weaver]

Yep.

[Randall]

You were making $100,000 for the first 14 years.

[Graham Weaver]

Right.

[Randall]

Of your business, which is crazy. Right. Net of tax. And you're married and I don't know, is that $70,000 after tax. And you got a family and you started making a carried interest finally in your third fund. And you were depressed.

[Graham Weaver]

Right.

[Randall]

Why? That doesn't make sense.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

And you stopped drinking as well.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, it's a good question. I think what happened is, I think I realized at that time I'd been driving for so long, you know, starting when I was 12, mowing lawns, all the wrestling and starving myself, getting into college, getting grades in college, Wall street, raising a fund, you know, x 14 years of plowing through. And then I had this financial event. We sold our last company in our second fund and that created this big carried interest check. And I saw the money go in my bank account. And then I just thought, oh, I thought that was going to Feel different. Wait a sec. You know, I thought that would feel different. And it was really exciting for a couple days, and then I just had this big letdown. And I don't mean it to sound like, oh, you know, I mean, I'm very grateful that I was able to have financial security. It wasn't like I could never work against money. It was money that I could exhale a little bit, but I just thought it would feel different. You know, I thought I'd been working all this time to have this outcome. And you know what? I was still. It was still me. I was still there. And I had still had all the same demons and same problems, and it didn't. It didn't make all that go away. And so it was. It was hard. You know, I felt like I'd worked for probably 25 years, 27 years or something like that to get to this point, and I just thought it would. I thought it'd feel different. So, yeah, I actually. Actually was clinically depressed. Like, I. I had a hard time getting out of bed. I felt just tired all the time. I was in a bad mood all the time. And there was. It was probably actually one of the lowest points of my life.

[Randall]

How did you come out of it?

[Graham Weaver]

So I. Little by little. So I started doing a lot of research on depression because I think. I think I took like a survey or something online. I don't remember. And I answered all these questions. It's like, yeah, you might have depression. And so I started doing a lot of research, and then I started looking up, like it was some basic stuff. Well, first I went on antidepressants, but I fired all kinds of bullets. So I saw alcohol was really highly correlated to depression, as you would imagine. I wean myself off alcohol.

[Randall]

Did you have a drinking problem or you.

[Graham Weaver]

I don't know that I had a drinking problem, but I drank most nights. I think it interfered with my sleep more than I realized. I wouldn't say I wasn't by any stretch had a drinking problem, but it was definitely just not serving me. And if you go Google depression, it's like on every single list was alcohol. It's a depressant. So I cut alcohol out of my diet. I got my food. Believe it or not, food allergies showed up a bunch on those list. So I got my food allergies tested. I had a severe intolerance to gluten, which was probably 60% of my calories at the time. I gave up gluten. I stopped having sleeping pills, which I needed because of the alcohol, I started just eating way healthier. I started working out a lot more. And little. It didn't all happen at once, but little by little, I started to realize a lot of it was just daily habits and that, you know. And so I started. I started talking to a therapist. And so little by little, started doing that. I weaned myself off antidepressants and haven't looked back. So I still have all those. All those habits. I still don't drink, don't eat gluten, don't have sleeping pills.

[Randall]

Someone told me a long time ago that if someone tells you they're not interested in money, they're full of shit. So what part of making money was a motivator for you in starting this fund? And what's your advice to people who are motivated by money is the number one important criteria?

[Graham Weaver]

Well, I think. I think you go through a phase of money. The first phase is like, survival, right? Can you pay your rent? And can you, you know, can you actually, you know, pay your car payment and pay rent? And I never. I never, to be fair, like, I was never really up against that. Like, I saved money starting in college with this business. I saved money when I was on Wall street. So I was never up against it. Where I'm like, I don't think I'm going to make rent this month. So I've been very lucky that I haven't been there. But the first. But then it's like, okay, can I pay my mortgage? Can I put my kids through college? I have obligations now to family and that. So the first. The first kind of bar is like, just survival. And that was probably the most intense desire to make money was like, just literally survival. Then I think the next bar is probably financial security of just kind of like being able to exhale and maybe slightly above that is you just don't worry about money. You know, you're not. You're not thinking about it. And I would say, like, if I'm. If I'm being like. I know people probably hate when they hear people who've made a lot of money say this, but I would say 95% of the utility of money comes from not having to worry about money that I've experienced. I mean, I have more recently in the last couple years, I bought a nice house, but I never drove a nice car until. Till I was like in my late 40s. Like, it was never about the stuff. I think I realized, yeah, 95% of. Maybe even higher than that is just not having to Stress about money. And I don't mean like just the car payments and things, but more like, oh, I have to change a flight or my car breaks down. Just like literally, like not spending any emotional energy, stressed about money. And you can actually get there with out too much money and more. It has more to do with your expenses actually than your, your income.

[Randall]

What's your advice to people who are motivated by money? A lot of people, I bet if you took an anonymous poll.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

All the employees, people are super motivated.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

You know, I bet money would be number one on 90% of people.

[Graham Weaver]

I think if like, if I sat down with someone for an hour or so and like we actually said, okay, let's say they were nice enough to be honest about the fact that they were motivated by money.

[Randall]

Okay, anonymous poll.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah. And I'd say, okay, like let's talk about it. Like, what is it about this that you're really excited about? Oh, because I want to have a cool car. Okay, great. So how much is that going to take? Oh, I want to have a nice house. Okay, great. But I think a lot of times people are focused on stuff and status. That's really what they want money for. And those are both sometimes related in their head, like if I have a house, if I have a car or a watch or whatever. So stuff and status is where their energy is going. And again, sounds very cliche to say those will not do very much for you for any long period of time at all. On the status part, no one gives a shit. And on the stuff part, you know this, anything you've ever bought, you get a little bit of a boost and then it goes away. So stuff and status, like if people actually understood that that really doesn't provide that much utility and maybe even negative utility in many cases. What I think provides the utility is the peace of mind of not having to worry about money. So if you could shift someone's mindset to be like, you can still be really fired up about money, but maybe you're fired up because you could help people that you care about or you don't have to worry about it and stress about it, and focusing on that I think would make you a lot happier. It would also shift how much money you need, how much money you spend. And I think it'd be way healthier.

[Randall]

Most people, including me, including mentees and even my friends, we talk about this all the time, have had and it shifts over time as you get older and you have family and homes and other things. A financial goal of how Much money you want to have. Did you have one at a young age? What was it? Has it changed? And what is it now?

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, I mean, I'm really putting you on. It's fine. I mean, I'm going to go there. So I think in the early, early days, it was probably like a million dollars that was mine. That seemed like all the money in the world. I mean, and that. I mean, I couldn't even imagine what that would be like. And so that was probably my goal from, like, being really young till, I don't even know, in my well into my 30s maybe even, or, you know, it was like a million dollars. And then, and then I shifted and I said, okay, if I had. If I had $20 million in. In the bank earning, like, in Treasuries, I could live off the treasury income and I. And I would have that, like, security blanket and I'd never have to. Then anything else that happened, I'd be fine, like, if I kept my lifestyle in check. So that was kind of my. My next goal. But not like rap.

[Randall]

How old were you when you had that?

[Graham Weaver]

That was probably like, you know, late. Probably in the early 40s. I was like, okay, that. And then that was kind of like my, to use the term, kind of fuck you money. Like, I never have to worry about anything again, presuming I didn't increase my living expenses too big. And I thought that was a great goal because I felt like. And I did achieve that goal. And then once that happened, I felt like at that point, I'm playing with the house's money and I actually became a better investor. I think I've made better decisions and I haven't reset another goal. So I have. The 98% of my wealth is in Alpine, my business, in private investments. And I love having it there. I feel really good about it. And so I get to be that voice of let's do what's right for investors, and then let's find liquidity for the people in my firm or the people in the management team. Let's do that separately. Maybe we raise a separate round to get them secondary money. But I'm not personally making a poor decision because of my own financial needs or my situation. I've hit my goal, and so I can now just do what's best for, you know, my investors or the firm, which in many cases is hold these companies for a really, really long period of time.

[Randall]

My mom told me a long time ago, don't count other people's money. But obviously you've made more than $20 million in your, in your lifetime and you're going to continue as your firm grows. It's exponential, actually, right? It is, yeah. You get. You're probably the biggest shareholder in your firm at this point. And we all know what the top performing private equity firms make. And some of the best firms, you know, some of, if you just look at those firms who've gone public, you got founders making $100 million a year.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

And so how do you think about money and as a dad, having all that money in your children and raising your children in a normal, humble environment?

[Graham Weaver]

On the making money part and how I think about it, I think about it as I honestly think about my goal is to be the number one performing private equity fund in the world. And that's the scorecard I have. There will be lots of financial gains that come with that. But the absolute North Star is our net MOIC performance at Alpine, which runs counter actually to making more money because we could charge more carry than we do. We could kind of take liquidity earlier and raise more. There's a lot of things we could do. But I want to be the number one performing fund in the world. And that's kind of the North Star, to be honest. And then with the kids, it actually worked out really interestingly. I never planned this, but my kids had almost the exact same situation that I had as a kid where their dad started a business when they were born, didn't make money, drove, worked really hard. They saw the grind. They saw it start with nothing where they would come to Alpine event and there'd be. The whole firm was seven people. And then they've watched it kind of grow and they've seen all the work that went into that. And I think I gave them that. They absorbed that. That's how they're showing up in their life. And I love that for them, you know, it's almost the same thing that my, you know, I had with, I had with my dad. So they, my kids are really driven. You know, they're getting up at 5am and going on runs when no one's looking. They're doing those things and I never told them to do that. They're doing those things, all three of them. I honestly am not exactly sure how we're going to structure giving them money or if we're doing like a charity trust. You'd think I would have that all figured out. I don't have a great answer for you yet on that.

[Randall]

When I was young and I didn't have money I go into the Porsche dealership every year and I'm sorry if I'm repeating the story for those people who listen to the show, but I sit in the Porsche every year and said, one day I'm going to buy this, this Porsche. And when I finally, our company went public and I had the opportunity to do it, it took me a year to buy the Porsche. And like you said, at some point, you know, the oro wears off. I felt guilty. It was $107,000. I still have it today, 22 years ago.

[Graham Weaver]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Randall]

Has 57,000 miles. First day I took it home, Graham, I washed the car, like, oh, this is going to be great. And I dropped a bucket on the car, I filled the water up and it still has a little quarter size ring on the car. But I bought, I, I bought the Porsche.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

I bought my dream home. And I treat myself to nice art, which has become a investment more than anything else. What is the nicest thing you've bought yourself? Are there any extravagances that you said having a plane or a Ferrari, I.

[Graham Weaver]

Mean, yes, I, I, I, I. Up until two years ago, my answer would have been like, I just spend money to save time. So I have administrative assistant, I have accountants, things that I just take all the stuff I don't want to do and I do none of it. And that is the best extravagance. But then two years ago, I had this one label company that I bought during business school. The very last one I bought, and we got very lucky. We had Trader Joe's as a customer and it grew. I held the business for 21 years and we sold it in 2022. And it was, it was on a, on a net investment. It was the best investment I ever made because I put in a tiny amount of money and it, it became a really big business. So we sold it in 2022. I wasn't counting on it. I, I wouldn't say I forgot about it, but it was kind of like not part of my daily planning. And so I had this, a big amount of money come in from that sale and I used that to buy a house in Hawaii. So that was my, that was my one kind of extravagance. And I love it. I love having, I don't think I'm gonna buy any more houses because it's a lot of work and it's, you know, you can rent, you don't have to own. But I have a really sweet house in Hawaii.

[Randall]

That's where we're in Hawaii.

[Graham Weaver]

It's in Maui.

[Randall]

Nice.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah. And I really do enjoy it, and I do feel really proud when I'm in it, and it makes me really happy. So that's my big extravagance. But that. I mean, I was 50 years old when I. When I did that, and.

[Randall]

But.

[Graham Weaver]

But I, I. It has. It has been kind of nice.

[Randall]

I always said I'm never gonna own a second home because like you said, it's a lot of work, it's expensive, and thankfully we have the money where we can go where we want. And I didn't want to feel tied down. Yeah. Then we went up to Coeur d'alene, Idaho, and then we saw this incredible house and we bought the house. And it's been the best thing we've ever done as a family.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, exactly.

[Randall]

Because I have younger kids. I have three. Three kids from a previous marriage. They all want to go, and it's just been the best.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, you.

[Randall]

That we've done.

[Graham Weaver]

You nailed it. And exactly. Like, you know, my kids are now. I have two kids in college and, you know, during spring break, they want to go to Hawaii and they bring their friends and their girlfriend. And so that. That's been awesome. Is just keep, you know, keeping having the. Having the family together. So that's. That's been really. That's been really, really nice. Yeah. You can probably tell from just talking about. I feel kind of guilty about it for some reason, but I. But it has been. It has been really nice.

[Randall]

You know, I felt guilty about my house as well. And this may seem so weird, and I know and people are going to write in on this, and it's going to be a weird concept, but we own a beautiful home here. But a lot of our friends also have beautiful. I mean, we have friends who live month to month, but, you know, our kids go to school. You're friends with the parents. We live in Brentwood, California. Homes are very, very expensive.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

And so it's normal to have a nice house. Maybe not as nice as ours, but there's a lot of very, very nice homes. When I bought my second home, and I'm sitting up there and we have a beautiful view of the lake. And I just. I feel at peace there. I never want to leave, and I don't want to work while I'm there. But I have my summer intern program at summer only. But it's. This is going to sound so weird. It's the only place where I really thought and I felt successful.

[Graham Weaver]

Wow.

[Randall]

Yeah.

[Graham Weaver]

I mean, wow.

[Randall]

Yeah. It's weird.

[Graham Weaver]

That's really cool. Thanks for sharing that.

[Randall]

Let's talk about the word asymmetry, which you've used already and you've said there are four things you can do to have a great life.

[Graham Weaver]

Yep.

[Randall]

And when I read this, I thought, I've never heard anything like this before. It actually, you know, one of the things about having great guests on the show, like we talked about before, I get to meet lots of people, and I like to take things from each show, but this one was like, holy shit. Like, that's amazing. So talk about, talk about the four. These are things that I'm going to do and I'm going to adopt, and I've written them down so well. Thanks.

[Graham Weaver]

Thanks for that compliment. So the concept was what we were talking about before, about investing, where, you know, you, if you're, you, if you're playing, you want to play for the upside, not protect the downside. And so I kind of thought about my life as I started to uncover that for investing. I started to realize I was doing the same thing in my life. I was playing small, I was playing not to lose. And so I started to kind of think about what were the principles that if you stack them on top of each other, would lead to a wildly asymmetric life, just like principles of investing would lead to wildly asymmetric investments. So the first one was do hard things. And that is, I think they're all really important. But the do hard things probably comes first because I had this expression that everything you want in life is on the other side of worse first. So if you really think about, you know, you want a better body, okay, it's going to get worse first. You're going to go to the gym, you're going to have a diet you might not like as much as the old diet. You know, if you want, you know, to do better at your job, you know, you're going to have to work a little bit more, you're going to have to study harder. You know, everything that you want is on the other side of doing something you don't want first. And so when I, when I cut weight wrestling, I started, I just realized I had a very, very high capacity to do hard things, which has been good. So that's, that's kind of principle one. Principle two is do your thing. And the idea there is that if you are doing something that you're doing because you think, you know, it's the, you know, it's going to make you money or it's going to, it's a thing that your friends are going to be impressed by or your parents or. It's a thing you're supposed to do. Like, you're, you're not, you're not going to stay with that for a long period of time. So you talk about, yeah, people could do investment banking for a couple of years, but, like, you want to align. I said this earlier, you want to align your soul with your day, you know, and if, if, when those things are happening, you're unstoppable. When you're doing something that you're. You really want to be doing, and you're going to do it for a long period of time, you're going to, you're going to work early and late. And so, like, you're not going to do that, doing someone else's thing. So find out what your thing is and get on a path to doing that. Like, I don't, I don't think there's any, almost any exceptions to that now. It doesn't mean you can do it tomorrow. Maybe you have some financial things you have to sort out in your current thing, but get on that path sometime in your lifetime. Number three is do it for decades. And this is kind of like that. Just the power of compounding over time. You know, I'm, I'm. I'm in my 23rd year running Alpine. Like, I'm pretty good at running a private equity firm at this point. You know, we've done 600 deals. I've. I've hired a lot of people. I've hired a lot of CEOs. I've seen a lot of industries. I've tried everything you can imagine. I'm trying new stuff. I've had new coaches. Like, I'm better in year 23 than I was in year 22 and 21. And so, you know, that gets asymmetric over time, too. You just get. You get so much better. So you do things over a long period of time. I mean, if. I think if I stopped alpine in year 14, it got kind of asymmetric, you know, the longer I stayed with it. So do it for decades. And the last one is write your story. And this is really the, maybe even the predecessor of this. But, like, you get one life. So, like, take the time to really step back and think about if, you know, what is the picture you want to paint, what is the life that you want to have, and imagine it as though you could have anything that you wanted and get as clear as you can on that, because that's the hardest Part bringing that to fruition is usually just kind of working backwards. And then I like to say, you know, almost any, any goal that you can set, you can, you can work backwards and create an endogenous set of activities that will yield that goal over a long enough period of time. But most people don't know exactly what they want. So, so that's the fourth one is write your story.

[Randall]

And for. Write your story, you're talking about a five year story.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, a five year story. Like what, what's nirvana? What would you do if you knew you wouldn't fail? And what would you do if you knew you didn't fail in your relationships, your career, your body, spirituality, you know, in your friendships, you know, in all those areas, like what's, what do you want? You know, and take the time to really explore that, which is a thing I do a lot with my executive coaches.

[Randall]

You made an Instagram post, I don't know, a few months ago that said, I read every self help book in the world and these are the four or five things that you need to do. And one of them was to, I'm going to summarize and I'm not going to get it right, but maybe you can fill in the details. But it was get a notepad out, make a five year goal and write. And you did this in college. Essentially, it's where it began. And write your goals down. High goals, not those that you think you're going to hit. And write three things down every day that you did to achieve those goals.

[Graham Weaver]

Exactly.

[Randall]

And I think that's genius.

[Graham Weaver]

It's so simple. And what I would also say is if you really look at successful people, I think the most underrated thing is like the tediousness of being successful. Like, it's tedious. It's like having, having a great body is tedious. You know, it's reps in the gym, it's hours, you know, running. It's, you know, it's, it's not, it's not hard, it's just tedious, you know, and achieving a goal is not difficult. It's tedious. It's daily writing it down, writing the three things you want to do toward that goal down and then doing those things and then getting up tomorrow and doing it again. Like, and, and I think, I think people mistake. They think it's going to be these big, sweet, sweeping motions because they hear about that, but they don't realize that there was 25 years of work that went into whatever that outcome was. And those 25 years are tedious, right?

[Randall]

I think one of the things too, I mean, we have a summer intern program. They work on tedious things. We work on Sandy, which is getting data points. We have built, we've built the largest beach database in the world for the 5 trillion dollar year beach tour. As a business, there's nothing like it. We've cataloged 100 categories of data from now more than 140,000 beaches in 212 countries. And it's a lot of work. It's manual work. Is there a bathroom there? What's the cell service there? These are things that people want to know before they visit the beach. And that's one use case is for people going to the beach and planning a beach vacation. The average person, before they plan a beach vacation looks at 38 different websites before they visit there. So we're trying to cut all that down and really put everything on one beach page. But that includes pictures of beaches. And it's laborious to get the licenses and make sure we have the right licenses for the photos. We have drone videos now. I think of, I don't know, 20,000 beaches as well that we've manually got on YouTube. We put the link back to YouTube on this. People want to really see video of it. We've compiled now a list of every shark attack in the last hundred years. We're about to launch a shark map as well. We've done some really, really cool things.

[Graham Weaver]

I love it.

[Randall]

And we have all these interns come in, right? And we tell them before the summer said, you're going to be doing shit work the whole summer. What you're doing is beneath your intelligence level because we've got kids from Stanford and Harvard and all the best schools, but we also have kids from San Diego State or a firm like college, like Biola, which I don't. Do you know Biola?

[Graham Weaver]

I do not know.

[Randall]

Okay. Most people don't. So it's a small Catholic school outside of Los Angeles. That's where Matt Hickerson goes. Who's best intern we've ever had and best right hand that I've had as well. But it's like these kids don't want to do it. And throughout the summer I said, you're going to get bored, you're going to complain. I said, complaining is a cancer. I better not hear one complaint or we're going to have a gnarly meeting in my office. But what I tell the kids is I'm doing the same work. I'm sending my team emails. Hey, why don't we have a photo here? Is this really a nude beach? Right. Is this really a gay beach? Try to find it. I'm doing the work too. I'm uploading photos onto our website. And that's, that's the thing. It's tedious, hard work. I mean, everyone wants to sell a company for a billion dollars, build a huge, huge fund. And we, we've seen the today, it's different than when we started coming. You're in a highly competitive business, so you're, you're getting the best of the best. I'm not saying that we're not getting the best of the best, but the work ethic today and what the expectations are in a world where everyone's making gobs and money.

[Graham Weaver]

Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah.

[Randall]

Is just a different game.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, but I love that story. I hope everyone who your listeners really understand what you were just saying about the tediousness. I mean, my favorite quote of all time is Michelangelo. He says, if people know how hard I work to gain my mastery, it wouldn't seem so wonderful. And I think it's like teaching at Stanford is, it's like each class is meticulously planned, minute by minute. Who I'm going to call on in some cases, you know, the exact, you know, characters I'm going to assume. And I mean, it's like, it's just like we talked about it in the green room, preparation and it's tedious. You know, we just had an off site yesterday and I was telling Audrey before we were meeting here, I mean, I think I wrote, I was involved in just about every single PowerPoint slide that was shown over the entire two day period. Just how many minutes are we going to give for this exercise? Is this flowing? Right? I mean, it's just, yeah, it's tedious.

[Randall]

Let's talk about preparation for a minute. Because it's one of the things that's been the hallmark of my success. And I'm teaching something, I'm giving talks at colleges, I'm going to be doing some paid public speaking. I'm writing a book on preparation. I'm Extreme preparation. So how important has extreme preparation been to your success? That means of preparing everybody?

[Graham Weaver]

I think it's been the characteristic. I mean, if I go back to high school grades, I mean, I would have a geometry test. The teacher would say, hey, here's the last eight geometry tests. I would do every problem on all eight. Understanding it, you know, and, you know, if I, you know, we had for rowing, I put in probably on average an extra Hour a day, at least on the rowing machine. My classes, I meticulously prepare for the speech that you were referencing about asymmetric life. Probably took six months to write that. And you know, there were four principles, but we started off with like 12, you know, and had to test them and see, you know, and, and so it, I think it's a superpower. It can also be, sometimes can be a negative because sometimes it keeps me from engaging in things where I don't have that ability to prepare for it. So I might just say no to something where, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to be as prepared. So I think that there is a negative side to that. I, you know, like you, it sounds like I'm a perfectionist so that, that can be a negative. But in general over preparation has been, has been a real key tool. But even more than that, it's like when I'm over prepared, I'm really confident too. So I think I just show up differently knowing that I did the work, you know, I'm ready for the speech or I'm ready for the class and I know the material so that, that helps a lot too.

[Randall]

Less anxious you're doing the reps. Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, it's really helped me a tremendous amount as well. I mean, you're Phi Beta Kappa in college and for those people don't know, it's, it basically means you're graduating the top 2% of your class. And for me it was because I outworked everybody. I don't consider myself the smartest person in the room. And I tell people if you're the smartest person in the room, you're probably in the wrong room. But if I have to go back and look at all those semesters in college, maybe there were five or eight tests where I knew I may not get an A. I got one B plus in college first semester I was pissed. But it was really something you can control the outcome of. And I also think that's true of work ethic as well. So what's your advice to people who don't want to get there at 5 o'clock in the morning? Can you be successful if you work on average like everybody else?

[Graham Weaver]

I don't. I mean, I think if, if. You know, it's funny, I have a hard time giving advice that I don't follow myself. So I can only share what's worked for me, you know, and what's worked for me is like if I'm going to take something on, you know, I'm going to have a bar of wanting to be the best in the world at that particular thing. And I'm going to put in the work to do that. And that's really invigorating for me. And so, you know, it's hard for me to give advice to someone to say, hey, you know what, why don't you just try to be average at that and that's going to be fine. Now if that's someone else's own, you know, kind of compass and that's where they are, then, you know, I guess they can show up however they want. But, you know, I've just found a lot more joy in trying to like throw yourself into things. Thousand percent.

[Randall]

So you work at a sexy, you started a sexy firm, right? Private equity. And again, we talked about money and I think there's a traditional path, which is banking, investment banking. And most bankers I know want to go into private equity. It's not as harsh in terms of the time commitment, the hours and the weekends. Although it doesn't mean that you don't work hard. How does someone get a job at Alpine? And would you hire and do you hire students from lesser known colleges that don't have straight A's and maybe have a 3.2 grade point average?

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah. So I think like what we're trying to do, we hire say 12 summer interns to do investing. And what we're really just trying to do is find the highest yield that we can have. You know, we want all 12 to be successful, we want all 12 to work out. We have found it to be very highly correlated. You know, the undergraduate grades and performance has been really correlated to doing well on the job. And it probably is less about the grades themselves and more about the work ethic that went into the grades, more about the preparation and things that went into that. So we've found that for better or for worse, to be really highly correlated. So we're not, we're typically indexing on grades when we're making those hires.

[Randall]

What's the best interview question that someone has asked you in your 23 years?

[Graham Weaver]

My favorite, I'm going to steal two questions that my all time favorite question probably is Peter Thiel's question, which is, what's something you believe that not that many people agree with you on? I think that's a great question. And then Elon Musk has a question he asked which is something like, what's the most difficult problem you've ever had to solve and how did you solve It. I think those are great questions. I think you'd learn a lot about people with those two.

[Randall]

I read one and I love this question. And again, I teach this one, which is what are the three things that I can do after six months that would help me be successful and add value to your firm?

[Graham Weaver]

Oh, I love that. That's a. Oh, you're saying what would.

[Randall]

It someone ask a student.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, sorry, I thought you meant what was I asking?

[Randall]

Okay, so let's turn around. So what, what's the best question someone has asked you that you've said, holy cow. That's a great question.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah. Probably similar to what you just said. Something about like, what are the attributes that I would have or you know, how would I be showing up that I would be the best analyst that's ever come at this firm? You know, give me the playbook, tell me what to do, what would that look like? You know, and they actually are really intent on wanting to know. They're not saying that because they heard they were supposed, but you can tell they actually want to be the best analyst that we've ever hired. And you know, they're asking me for that formula.

[Randall]

One, one of the mistakes I think people make. And I again, this is something that I think people should really think of when they're interviewing for a job. I me not value add, value add, value add. Do you see that as well, where in the interviews people are just saying I'm great for this role because I'm this, I'm this, I'm this. As opposed to how it can add value to your firm.

[Graham Weaver]

I don't know that I could count on maybe one hand the number of conversations I've had where someone has talked about adding value to my firm. So yeah, I think that's really, really rare. And I think it would be a really refreshing conversation if I were to have that for sure.

[Randall]

So if someone from a lesser ranked school sends you this incredible analysis of a company where you say, holy cow, this person is done a 40 page presentation, he or she is a 3.0 grade point average, they've really mapped out everything that you could ever imagine. And they said, not only can I do this, but here are the ways that I could add value to your firm and I'll work for free for six months, you don't have to pay me. And after six months, if I've done good things, then you put me on the payroll.

[Graham Weaver]

That'd be super compelling. I love it. It's a great pitch. That'd be really, really Compelling.

[Randall]

I love it. Let's talk about something that you said as well that really hit home with me in being successful is time management. And I thought what you said about that was really profound and I hadn't really thought about it in the way that you said it. I think about it, I think about all the clutter that comes on my desk. I think about, gosh, I'm spending so much time on these worthless emails. What's your view on time management and what should people be doing to and focusing on during their day?

[Graham Weaver]

So I think the best formula that I've come up with for time management goes back to you knowing really clearly what your top goals are and then putting time on your calendar to work on those goals. So, you know, my, my three goals are 1, 2, 3. Here are the activities I need to do to hit 1 and 2 and 3. And then scheduling those blocks on your calendar and using your calendar to work on your things that are moving you to where you want to go. Email, if you think about it, is really what everyone else wants from you. It's people telling you all the things they need from you. And so if you find yourself reacting to emails, there's almost a zero percent chance that that's moving you toward your goals. It's moving you maybe toward other people's goals. And certainly you have to return emails. But I think that needs to fit in around, you know, you really blocking the time on the things you want to do.

[Randall]

Right. So as part of your advice and summarizing all of those five year goals and writing three things down each day, I bought a Lucite frame, eight by ten, I'm going to put it in the frame and in my notebook. I'm also going to put down in each of the three things I did each day, how long each one took.

[Graham Weaver]

I love that.

[Randall]

And I'm also going to put down how much of my time was devoted to emails or things that had no value to the success of those goals.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, a lot of times. A lot of times like I'll coach one of our CEOs and you know, the CEO knows what I'm that, you know, we say we're in the talent business. They know how much I care about talent. So I'll coach one of the CEOs and I'll say, well, how much, you know, if you had to guess, what percent of your time do you think you're you're spending on building a great team and building talent? And they'll say, oh, a lot of my time, I'm spending a lot. I'm like, why don't you pull out your calendar and let's go look at the last two months and look at how much time you spent on building a great team. And they look at me like their face turns white. Because the answer is they're like, oh, well, HR does that. And, okay, you just said your top priority is building a great team and talent. And yet if I look at the last two months of your calendar, you spent no time on that. Yeah, but I had to do this, and we had this customer and we had that, and, like, that's what I'm talking about. It's like, you have to, like, take your top priorities and really align your schedule. Stephen Covey has this great matrix where he says, what's urgent and what's important? And he says that all the magic happens in the. The quadrant of your life that is important but not urgent. That's where all the magic is. And so, but we all. We spend all our time on the things that are urgent. So the unlock is to take all the important things, like working on your management team, working with your team on your goals, maybe designing a new product, innovating things that are important but not urgent, and schedule them. That makes emergent when they show up on your calendar as a meeting with a team to work on this really big priority, all of a sudden it's, you've made the important urgent, and that's kind of the unlock about how to get in that quadrant of important things.

[Randall]

You're becoming very well known. You're a great professor. I'm sure people reach out to you on LinkedIn every day. And maybe you get some things that I get every day, which is, oh, Graham, I'm so impressed with you. Do you have 15 minutes for a cup of coffee?

[Graham Weaver]

Yes.

[Randall]

I get a lot of 10 of those a week. Yes. And the answer for me is no. But if you want to join my summer internship program, you get a whole 12 weeks with me.

[Graham Weaver]

Nice.

[Randall]

So how does somebody earn a meeting with you? Obviously, that's not going to work.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. And it's something that I actually really struggle with over the last couple of years, as I've gotten more and more those requests, because in the early days, I was just honored. I said yes to 100% of the time, and I thought it was a real blessing that someone wanted to talk to me. And I still feel that way, but I don't have the capacity. I can't fill my calendar. So I Kind of have to just prioritize and say, okay, at the very top of the list is, you work at Alpine. You're going to get on my calendar. Probably right under that is you're taking my class right now. You're enrolled in my class. I'm going to spend time. I have office hours, and you can be in my class. Probably right under that is you have taken my class in the past years. And then, you know, below that might be. You currently are enrolled at Stanford because it is part of the job of a professor to meet with students. And so I want to. And then, you know, I. So I try to have this kind of algorithm of how do I. How do I prioritize those requests? I do. To your point earlier about persistence, if someone writes me and did a ton of work and research and has something smart and they send me 17 emails, I will 100% meet with them. Like, they, they 100% will get a meeting. So they get, they, they get jumped. They can jump the queue of that prioritization. But I, I wish I had a. I wish I had an infinite amount of time. There's probably some other unlock, like your internship. Like maybe I could have, like, online office hours on, you know, on Instagram or something. I don't know. I haven't thought about that. But. But I really do try to get to as many of those requests as I can. And, and I still have to, unfortunately, not. Not do a lot of them.

[Randall]

When you're successful, and there's a spectrum of success, we get more and more busy. And as we get older, we've got kids. I mean, I've got five kids. You've got kids. I'm into philanthropy, you're into philanthropy, so you really don't have a lot of time. But I think mentors are very important in our success. And for me to earn a mentorship, it's not sending 17 emails. It's people who write me long letters that listen to every podcast.

[Graham Weaver]

Exactly.

[Randall]

They're pulling names out of my mentors when I was younger. How does somebody become one of your mentees?

[Graham Weaver]

I mean, probably actually being a mentee of mine, I just probably don't have capacity. I mean, just because I'm trying to give as much of that time to the people who work at my firm. And I have current students, so it'd be really hard for someone that I've never met, no matter what they're sending me, to become like, where I'm going to actually have ongoing, weekly or monthly or something relationship. I just at this point, probably don't have capacity for that.

[Randall]

All right, we're at the end of our show right now, and I always concluded by a game I play. Fill in the blank to excellence. Are you ready to play?

[Graham Weaver]

Fill in the blank for excellence?

[Randall]

Okay, so of all the coaching you've done, what are the biggest lessons you've learned?

[Graham Weaver]

You can have just about anything you want if you're willing to do the work.

[Randall]

My number one professional goal is build.

[Graham Weaver]

A number one performing private equity firm of all time.

[Randall]

My number one personal goal is try.

[Graham Weaver]

To live my life in a way that I'm creating as much impact on everyone who's in my life as I can.

[Randall]

The biggest regret in my life that.

[Graham Weaver]

I've had is probably missing some early things with my kids. When I was in the early years of building Alpine, my biggest fear in life is, I guess, that I will die having not, you know, fulfilled what I feel like I'm on this earth to do, which I'm still kind of figuring out.

[Randall]

The craziest thing that's happened to me.

[Graham Weaver]

In my career is the entire journey of starting Alpine, from dorm room to where it is now has just been an unbelievably crazy journey.

[Randall]

The funniest thing that's happened in my.

[Graham Weaver]

Career is, oh, gosh, I mean, I could go back to so many crazy management meetings of visiting companies in the early days when we had no idea what we're doing. And craziest one would be probably my partner. And I met two guys who were so stoned they never turned the lights on in the meeting. I mean, that was probably the craziest thing. Yeah.

[Randall]

The best advice I've received in my.

[Graham Weaver]

Career is ask yourself what you would do if you knew you wouldn't fail and then go do that thing.

[Randall]

Ten years from now, I'm going to.

[Graham Weaver]

Be doing probably very much a lot of the same things I'm doing now. Hopefully just a little bit with. I'll have a little more people helping me, particularly at Alpine, where my role will hopefully be a little bit less than it is now, 20 years from now, I would hope. I'd hope similar, but probably I'm a lot more mentoring people than doing myself.

[Randall]

If you could pick one trait that would contribute most to someone's success, it would be persistence. The most important thing that's contributed to your success has been persistence. I love that out of the hundreds of books that you've read over the years, self help, motivational, the one book that you would recommend above all others to somebody is I'm gonna go, I'm.

[Graham Weaver]

Gonna go old school and say, dale Carnegie, how to Win Friends and Influence.

[Randall]

People, which has sold over 250,000 copies. I think he wrote that book in something like 1936.

[Graham Weaver]

Yeah.

[Randall]

And it's the first book I recommend to people.

[Graham Weaver]

It's got a lot of sexist stuff, so you gotta look past that. It's old school, but it's. The content of that book is life changing if you actually internalize it.

[Randall]

The one thing I've dreamed about doing for a long time but haven't is.

[Graham Weaver]

I've been trying to do a standing backflip for about a year and a half and I'm going to land it. I'm going to land it in the next 12 months.

[Randall]

Are you taking gymnastics?

[Graham Weaver]

I'm working on it, yeah. I keep getting injured is the problem. I've had like four injuries trying to do that back, but I'm going to get it.

[Randall]

The best entrepreneur of all time is.

[Graham Weaver]

I'm going to go, Elon Musk, other.

[Randall]

Than you and Warren Buffett, the best investor in the world is.

[Graham Weaver]

I mean, Jim Simons has the best track record of all time. Yeah. So I'll go with Jim Simons.

[Randall]

If you could go back and give your 21 year old self one piece of advice, what would it be?

[Graham Weaver]

I would say it's going to be okay. Things are going to turn out fine. And I would have save myself a whole lot of stress and worry.

[Randall]

The one question you wish I had asked you but didn't is what's the meaning of life? What's the meaning of life?

[Graham Weaver]

Shoot. I think you're going to say that that's the quest I've been on for the last like two, three years. And it's, I think, the ultimate question. I think the meaning of life is for each person to find their meaning of life. And for me, my meaning of life is probably to live like fully throw my entire soul into whatever I'm doing at all times, whatever that is. But I think each person has to kind of answer that question for themselves.

[Randall]

I'm grateful for you coming today. I've learned a ton. I've interviewed tons and tons of people, some of the most successful people in the world. And I've said this to my team and I want to say it too. I've been so excited for the interview today because doing all the research, it really has, I've learned so much and I'm doing things that I think will change my life, starting with the Lucite and all the things that you've said. I'm big on coaching different people, and you've coached me without actually giving me any direct coaching. So I appreciate you being here. Super excited, super grateful, and hopefully we'll get the chance to know each other better.

[Graham Weaver]

I really appreciate the interview, and you asked amazing questions, did incredible amount of research, and it's been a real pleasure. Thanks so much, Randall.