← In Search Of Excellence
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- [00:00]
Laird Hamilton
We probably got blown a couple football fields underwater in. And when I came up, he was floating face down. That was the day that changed my life, actually.
- [00:08]
Greg McKeown
You guys revolutionized the sport of surfing by inventing toe in surfing, paddleboarding, whaling, and today it's a 1.8 billion dollar industry. And it's expected in 2034 to be a 2.8 billion dollar industry.
- [00:22]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [00:23]
Greg McKeown
How good does that make you feel?
- [00:24]
Laird Hamilton
Well, it just makes me feel like I'm not crazy. How can you do real actual dangerous things? You do them safely.
- [00:30]
Greg McKeown
You don't and you don't enter competitions. But how can you be considered the greatest surfer of all time without winning.
- [00:39]
Laird Hamilton
Competitions, subjecting your performance to judges? I just didn't like that. My idea was just like if you could surf the best and the biggest waves, then what's there to say?
- [00:49]
Greg McKeown
You were Kevin Costner, stunt double in Waterworld 1995. And he nearly died. Tell us about that.
- [00:56]
Laird Hamilton
I decided I would go home on the weekend after one of the weeks of shooting and then drive a Jet Ski back. I left in the dark that morning and I ended up just going off course and eventually put myself in the middle of the ocean. It was super emotional.
- [01:26]
Greg McKeown
Welcome to In Search of Excellence. My guest today is Laird Hamilton, who is considered the greatest surfer of all time. He's a pioneer on the ocean. He co founded tow in surfing, he co founded the foil market, and he also co founded paddleboarding, all of which were very poorly received by the surfing community. He's also an incredible entrepreneur. We're going to get into all of those activities during the show. Laird, welcome to In Search of Excellence.
- [01:53]
Laird Hamilton
Thank you for having me.
- [01:55]
Greg McKeown
I always start with our family at the beginning of my show, but I've never started with the actual birth of somebody's life. Can you tell us about how something like a reverse hair dryer sucked out fluid out of your mom's stomach as part of your birth?
- [02:12]
Laird Hamilton
Well, it wasn't technically taking fluid out. What it was doing was relieving the abdominal pressure. So it was just drawing up the abdomen in to create more space for the fetus. It was, it was an experiment they were doing in the University of San Francisco. That's all I know. No longer a thing, no longer said to be said, said to be useful. Just not hard to implement with the volume of people that are pregnant. And in the time period you'd have to go and, you know, a couple times a week and get that done. So I think it was just inviable in that sense. But Proven to be beneficial. We're not sure, you know, if it worked or not, but something happened.
- [02:52]
Greg McKeown
When your mom was pregnant, your biological dad left her, joined the merchant marines. Your mom at that point was a single mom, 23 years old. You were surfing already at two and a half years old. We're going to get into that as well. And I've heard of setups before. I mean, my mom is 70, I set her up with someone, she was on J date, But I've never heard of a two and a half year old taking a 17 year old home to meet their mom, to possibly marry their mom.
- [03:23]
Laird Hamilton
You can't make it up.
- [03:24]
Greg McKeown
You can't make it.
- [03:24]
Laird Hamilton
You can't make that up. I, I, I was needing a dad and he looked the part, like, he just seemed to be the, the per. And I was exposed to, you know, a lot of young surf, healthy surfer men. And he just looked the part, he just looked like somebody if I had, and you know, I have it, I had a dad, but I just didn't know what he looked like. So I was like, if I had a dad, that's what it would look like. And, or I have a dad and that's what he looks like. So I introduce him. You know, I think they let me have that a little bit, like I get credit for it, but I think they might have seen each other before, my mom and Bill. I think there was, there may have been something, but, but I definitely was, was, you know, promoting getting them together, needing a dad, you know, wanting, wanting a father, wanting someone that, you know. Bill was a young, handsome Southern California surfer and a great surfer and kind of a studly guy. So I was like, oh, cool. That guy looks like that could be my dad.
- [04:29]
Greg McKeown
We both have kids. Our kids are friends.
- [04:34]
Laird Hamilton
Yes.
- [04:35]
Greg McKeown
And I cannot imagine my son Charlie at 21 years old being a dad. There's no chance. My daughter's at 23. I can't imagine them being a mom. And my mom had me when she was 21 years old. I just can't even imagine that. Sometimes things that start out great end up terribly. You went through physical abuse. And I want you to go back to the moment where Bill Hamilton hit you with a pipe. And then you also, he made you sit on rocks and he said that you're never going to amount to anything.
- [05:09]
Laird Hamilton
I mean, when I look at, when I know about his upbringing and what he dealt with and his father and his, you know, what he was dealing with and his age, you know, how that he was still growing up and what a terror I was, you know, what a terror that I was. And I think I would have been difficult to handle even for a well matured man who had a lot of patience and, and not a temper. So, you know, when I look at that, I mean, obviously when you go through things you go through, you know, are never pleasant when they're happening, that, you know, things that, that are. It's never great when it's happening. Right. You know, that kind of stuff. But I mean, it was, it may have been the only way to deal with me, you know, and, and I have daughters and, and, you know, and, and I'm an older father, and so I have a completely different dynamic. But when, if I look at, you know, how I was at 18 and, and, or, you know, if I mostly look at his, you know, his standing at 18 and what he was dealing with, I mean, he took on a lot, you know, he took on a child, a wife, you know, and, and that was, I think, that challenge combined with my, you know, precociousness, I think I was pretty. I was a tester, like I had. There are stories that come back that, you know, that I was being. I'd test you, I test everybody to see if, you know, how. If I could move them. So, you know, obviously the level, you know, I mean, again, it's. I think, I think a lot of what's happened happened to me when I was younger as a child from my father. Those kind of things really kind of built me and made me into the person that I am. I think that I always looked at kind of losing your temper to a point of out of control is a real weakness. Like, for me, I'm. And maybe that's what's helped me be good in very intense situations when it goes chaotic, when there's just complete pandemonium, I just have a tendency to get real clear and, and straight and, and, and some of that came out of that. Some of that came out of like, oh, yeah, that's a liability. Don't want to do that. And again, it's those lessons that, you know, the lessons of how not to be are sometimes much greater than the lessons of how to be. And so you see that you're like, hey, how to be? Like, okay, it's easy to look at that and kind of slough it off. But how not to be, it can be very clear.
- [07:55]
Unknown
I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach the next level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google, lift and Seagate. And I also co founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey and at this stage in my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did in my own journey. I've learned that having the right mentor is a mass advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others, and I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions. And if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video.
- [08:47]
Greg McKeown
So let's talk about some of the crazy Hellraiser things that you did. So you.
- [08:54]
Laird Hamilton
There's a lot.
- [08:55]
Greg McKeown
Yeah, there's a lot. But I want to talk about two of them. So you tied a rope to a cinder block, hung it over a tree, which hung over the highway, and then in second grade, you swore, made obscenities. Teacher goes down to the principal's office. While they're down there, you basically said, f you open the window, threw desks and chairs out the window. You wrote obscenities on the board, chalkboard with charcoal. That doesn't come off. I've never heard of someone proactively meeting out their own punishment. Tell us what happened that day and what that soap you ate tasted like.
- [09:34]
Laird Hamilton
Well, I mean, they said they were going to wash my mouth out with soap, and I figured I'd just beat them to the punch. And I just got the bar soap out of the bathroom and took a big bite of it and chewed it and ate it. And so obviously that was not going to be effective washing my mouth out. You know, I think growing up in Hawaii the way I did, well, we ate a lot of radical stuff. We were around a lot of different cultures. And so there was always, you know, and there was always a little bit of a kind of manhood challenge, like, can you eat that? Can you jump from this? Can you drink that? You know, there was always these tests growing Up. So soap was like, yeah, no problem. Eat soap. Like, that was. That was just, you know, taste terrible and maybe give you a stomachache if you swallow too much of it. But it was just, you know, that was just part of the, you know, that was part of the territory. I was used to that kind of. Those kind of stuff because it, you know, because of the environment where you had to constantly prove yourself.
- [10:29]
Greg McKeown
But what's with the desks and the obscenities and out the.
- [10:33]
Laird Hamilton
Yeah, well, defiance. That was just a defiance thing. A lot of it was because I, I think it had to do with. Because I was distinctly different than most of the other kids. Just different looking and. And obviously different behaving. I. It was a way that I could kind of decoy the, you know, the, the pressure that could be pointed at me. And I would steer it towards the teacher by being. By being rebellious and radical. And then everybody would kind of focus on the teacher's response, like, well, what are you gonna do about that? Instead of, like, at me, it was at them. And so I, you know, I, I mean, I don't know all the psychology behind it, but, you know, a lot of it was. I was testing the boundaries of how far what I could and, and, and deflecting. I think deflecting stuff that was coming my way was a way to, you know, deflect.
- [11:25]
Greg McKeown
Your mom moved from San Francisco to Oahu.
- [11:28]
Unknown
Yep.
- [11:28]
Greg McKeown
When you were very, very young and you were a white blonde kid in Hawaii, you experienced bullying. I was bullied my whole childhood. I stuttered. Everyone made fun of me. I didn't like it very much. I came home crying from school every day. I don't want to go back. You've compared it to being a black person in the south in an earlier generation. Can you talk about the bullying and the racism and how that shaped your future?
- [11:54]
Laird Hamilton
Well, I think this is when you're just different than. No matter how what it is, but when you're different than the majority of the people that you're with, then that automatically separates you. It set it. It puts you. You just are different. And so no matter what that difference is, it's, you know, if you go, no matter what the culture is, if you come in and you're an outsider, you just. You have that. That burden of just dealing with. With that and that, you know, I would say for me, part of the, you know, part of the reason why I did the things that I did had to do with that was the way I would. I was trying to combat the situation. And so, you know, you, I always say you might not like me, but you might respect me. And so I, that was my approach. My approach was like, I don't need you to like me, but I'm, I'm interested in getting you to respect me. And I think that was a driving force. And you know, and respect might just be like you might fear me a little bit because I'm crazy. You know, I can be crazy. I can, or should I say I can do crazy things very actually pretty methodically because you can't do them a lot without hurting yourself. So how can you do real, you know, perceived dangerous things or actual dangerous things? You do them safely. Again, it's all relative. You know, somebody would think, well that wasn't safe. You dumped off the thing. But as the person doing it, you calculated how deep the water was. You calculated that you were going to clear the, the landing. You know, you calculate the things and then there's always a little, you know, there's always a little part where you're kind of going past, past that. And, and, and you know, we say there's three ways you go about doing something very difficult or dangerous. And you know, one of them is denial. And then there's ignorance and then there's skill and, and talent. And then there's a combination of those. Use a little denial, little ignorance, some skill, you know, no skill. No, no, no. All denial, you know, or just are all ignorance or, you know, so there's different levels of those. And I think there's always some of those that are in those situations when you're trying to push, push the edge of things. But you know, when I look back at it, I mean my, my closest friends, the people I love the most are, are the ones that, that I was different from, you know, that I was, I was, I was different from. But, and we were, and we have such good common care and love for one another. And so, but, but that environment definitely helped me. What I realized is that why would I care what somebody, you know, why would I care? What would somebody. If somebody doesn't like you for just how you are like you, they don't know you, they just look at you and they go, we don't, I don't like you. Then you cannot be surprised if they don't like you for how you behave.
- [15:03]
Unknown
So.
- [15:03]
Laird Hamilton
Because then you're actually doing something. So. But I think that set me up to be able to first of all not have peer, not be peer pressured influence in, in a way I'm able To rebel against that and, and some other things that really helped me go and do things that were kind of, I would say, outside of the. Outside of. Of the mainstream or being accepted socially or. I didn't need all that kind of that thing. I needed my closest circle, you know, to, to. To believe in me, my mother, my, you know, couple, one or two friends or something. But besides that, I wasn't looking for. I wasn't looking for approval and, and haven't been looking for approval except for the immediate family, the immediate people that I really care about. I have, I can barely deal with. Get outside of that realm. And you're trying to please people that really don't care about you, then you're bound for misery.
- [16:00]
Greg McKeown
We're roughly the same age. You're a few years ahead of me. Back when we were in school, bullying was a thing that teachers really didn't do that much. They say, stop it, stop it, stop it. You stopped it by slamming a kid's head into a desk. If you look at the mass shootings today, there have been 5,000 mass shootings in the last 10 years. 75% of mass shooters were bullied. Obviously, mass shootings are fucking nuts. And most people should all have the death penalty, in my view. But where do you draw the line in fighting back?
- [16:33]
Laird Hamilton
Well, I think if you don't defend yourself, you know, like, I went to school where there was a couple of us that were. That were, you know, that just stood out more than everybody else and that you get picked on and everybody had a different approach for it. And some people would just put their head down and take it, and they'd get, you know, they walk down the hallway and they get slapped in the back of the head all the way down the hallway and all the way back down the hallway and every day, all day long. And then there were some of us that would, that would defend themselves. And, you know, it's a lot more work to slap somebody's head that's going to defend themselves. So that was my approach. My approach was like, hey, you might, you might accost me, but I'm going to defend myself. I'm going to defend myself. And so. And that was my approach. My approach was to defend myself. And what I found is that that was a much more effective way to, To. To end the. The. And then I also didn't have the burden of that buildup of, of getting your head slapped every day for years and years and years, which may result in some, you know, psychopathic, you know, endeavor that is Just, you can't even understand how that's possible. But maybe over volume and, and, and you know, that, that, that builds inside and there, whatever else, other issues there are going on. But, you know, for me, I felt like that I just, if I had a, if I was, you know, being bullied, you know, and then bullies bully, you know, it's like a, you know, it's always like, it's like a, you know, you get bullied and then you bully somebody else and then they bully somebody else. It's like a whole, you know, it's a whole pyramid, you know, pyramid scam. But, but yeah, I felt like just defending that. I had to. You had to defend yourself. And you know, I'd say that my, my dad, my stepdad taught me that. Like he always, you know, and I mean, again, some of the great lessons I learned from him that, that have made me the man I am today. I would never, I'd never take back and say, I wish that that didn't happen. You know, he was, he was always about accountability. And you know, you're wrong. You take your punishment like a man. You're right. You stand up to the end. And you know, those were the kind of values that I was raised with. And so for me, I look at those and you know, okay, there can be exaggerated, maybe things that went a little too far, especially now, worth where we're at. But you know, in the jungle, when the, when the, when the cats, you know, when the kittens be, you know, misbehave, the cubs, they get a little, you know, like a little grab and you know, sometimes maybe it's harder than it should be. But you know, again, I think I was just, you know, I'm, I'm was a savage and so you kind of had to deal and I was in a savage environment. And so you, there's levels of it, of course, maybe a little, you know, you could have said that. But again, age, temper, all these factors that, that came together.
- [19:27]
Unknown
I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach the next level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google, lift and Seagate. And I also co founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey and at this stage in my life, I want to give back. I Want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did in my own journey. I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others. I'm looking for a few high hungry entrepreneurs are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video.
- [20:23]
Greg McKeown
School's not for everybody. In 11th grade, your buddy Buzzy Kerbox, good looking guy, introduce you to a world famous photographer named Bruce Weber. Tell us what happened next.
- [20:35]
Laird Hamilton
The beginning of that story was that they were doing Luomo Vogue Men's Italian Vogue was doing a photo shoot and they were taking pictures of me from a helicopter for Men's Vogue Italy. And there's water.
- [20:50]
Greg McKeown
While you were surfing?
- [20:51]
Laird Hamilton
They're taking pictures while I was surfing, yeah. There's a photographer by the name of Walter Yost who is a, one of the great Sports Illustrated photographers of all time taking all the famous shots and the, and he was shooting out of a helicopter. And then Barry McKinley, who was a, a huge fashion photographer at the time, saw the pictures of me surfing and said hey, I want to see this guy. And then I did a fashion thing for him which led to meeting Bruce Weber, which who was the kind of the premier men's fashion photographer at the time. And, and I started and I got some modeling work that way. Never, you know, I wasn't. Buzzy is, you know, his, his, he's a perfect model. This, the shot size is just his whole build and his, and, and I'm like I have a giant neck and a bunch of other things that didn't make me ideal for, you know, clothing. And so I was, and I was, you know, I wouldn't go and I wouldn't take, I wouldn't go do you know, I wouldn't do, you know, castings. And I'd just be like, like I was kind of like, I was like a rebel. Like I'll do some work if I get some work and it, and it comes naturally, otherwise I'm not going to do it. And it was just, you know, that was more of a means to fund my surfing. I was just looking for ways to make money in order to be able to, to, to fund my, my passion and my sport.
- [22:21]
Greg McKeown
But you know, you are a great looking guy.
- [22:24]
Laird Hamilton
Thank you.
- [22:24]
Greg McKeown
I mean, you know that, right?
- [22:28]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [22:28]
Laird Hamilton
I mean I'm thankful that. But again, I think when you come from that a world where you're different like that, you don't use that as currency. That's never a currency. The currency is your skill, your courage, your strength. I mean those are your current season. So I mean it's interesting because sometimes I'll get, you know, somebody will be like, oh, they, because they look at me and they think I grew up in Southern California, surfing down. And I'm like, yeah, I'm just like a different, When I first came here, I, I was like a different species. Like I come here and I just, my whole, the way I looked at things, the way I conducted myself, I'm just more, more from the jungle. I grew up in a jungle. I, Greg, I grew up a little more wild. And so that was, you know, that's, I came with that approach and I think that that's kind of always stayed with me.
- [23:16]
Greg McKeown
Back to high school. Your kids are homeschooled, we're homeschooled. But your daughter is going to college next year. Is college necessary and what's your view on the value of college today?
- [23:30]
Laird Hamilton
Well, I told my daughter that I would give her the money it would take to run her through college to start a business if she wanted to.
- [23:37]
Greg McKeown
That which is, you know, she's going to school in New York. You know, we need to mention it, it's going to cost you.
- [23:41]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [23:42]
Greg McKeown
A lot of thousand dollars. Yeah, probably maybe a little more.
- [23:45]
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah.
- [23:46]
Greg McKeown
And what you. And so what happened then?
- [23:48]
Laird Hamilton
My youngest daughter is really, she excels in the system. She just does well in that environment and she really, she, she eats it up. She knows how to, you know, study and get good grades and learn that in the, in that, you know, that system. I mean my, you know, coming from my background and the men that I've known, the successful men I've known, I mean they, you know, these people are street smart people that are hard workers that have certain values that have created their success. And you know, I mean, you know, I left high school before I was finished and went to work. That was the only way I could get out of school was be signed out and went to work. You know, fortunately for somebody who was pretty generous and would let me surf quite a bit. But you know, I went right to work. And then again my, some Men that I look up to have, you know, didn't graduate from high school. And so I'm not a huge, I mean, much to the disappointment of my mother, I'm not a huge fan of, you know, the structure of school, especially given the way it's been built. It just, especially for somebody who has a lot of energy, you know, I think for me I would, I. And I have learned through trade style learning with people are good at something, you go be with them and do it. And you know, I learned quickly that way and I like that form of learning. I have one daughter that just all homeschooled, graduated on her own, has been traveling and doing a bunch of stuff in the world. Like she's been to 32 countries in the last. I have another daughter that graduated from USC in a, in a technical field lidar and has a job, got a job six months out of graduation and has been in the career for eight years now and excels in that environment. So I don't think there's any, you know, I don't think there's any one way. I think it's just given the person they're in, their, their unique individual personality and their interest, I think I'm a believer that, you know, I always have a saying, you know, all is possible for the believers. So let's start there and just what's your, you know, what are you interested in? How do we, how can we get you more exposed to that and, and, you know, and, and learn, you know, find something that you really enjoy doing or that you're inspired by because that will continue to drive you in the low spots, like when you're not wanting to do it or you've done it, you know, and it becomes monotonous. If you have passion for it, you're going to go the extra and survive the doldrums.
- [26:28]
Greg McKeown
You know, the history of surfing, most people might think it started in Hawaii, California, but it's actually the ancient Polynesians that started the 12th century.
- [26:40]
Unknown
Yeah. What.
- [26:43]
Laird Hamilton
I don't know who thought that up. I think, I don't know if they were influenced and where they saw it or what it came from. I think, I mean, listen, surfing really came from an understanding of the ocean and it came from a necessity of being able to navigate the ocean's waves and how to get in and out of the ocean when there is waves for trade, for fishing, for whatever was going on. And I think it was just a byproduct of that. I think when you're out in the Middle of the ocean and you have giant seas, you learn how to surf the waves and then you learn how to surf the waves coming into shore and learning how to navigate and get out of the waves. So I think makes sense to me that it would, it would just have evolved from the greatest navigators, you know, the Polynesians who were the greatest navigators in that we know in modern time, they were navigating by the stars and could find little islands in the middle of the giant ocean without longitude or latitude and know how to read the ocean texture and knew where, where, you know, where islands were just by looking at, you know, the water movement. And you know, had, they had such knowledge, they had such a relationship with the ocean that it makes sense that that group who had the greatest relationship with the ocean that we know of would create this activity of riding waves. I mean, just makes sense to me.
- [28:06]
Greg McKeown
You started when you were two and a half. Roughly most three year olds are catching big balls or hopping on one foot. You're in the ocean on a surfboard. At what point in your childhood did you say to yourself, I'm an incredible surfer?
- [28:22]
Laird Hamilton
I don't think that ever happened. I didn't, I never say. I, I think it was. I always wanted to be great, so I never said, I never thought I was great. I always wanted to be great. And there's a difference between thinking you're great and wanting to be great. I think I may never think I'm great even no matter what I think that's part of a, that would be a. I look at that as a. I may have done great things, but I don't think I'm, I think I'm always trying to, I'm, I'm always behind. It's a little bit of the setup. It's like a self deprecating philosophy or something where I feel like I'm out of shape. I'm, you know, I could do better. And even at this point when, you know, certain aspects of surfing have already, I've already kind of stopped those disciplines because of interest really. I'm more interested in what I haven't done. But that's where the ins, you know, the inspiration comes from is just the, the belief that you can, you know, I like the concept and I've learned, I've realized that I like an elusive goal. I like a goal that's elusive, that just a summit that always moves. You arrive and then you're, all of a sudden the summit moves and then you arrive in the summit moves. And so then you're always moving towards the summit and you're never, you know, sitting back on your laurels going, yeah, that was. I made it to the summit. Like, no, there's no, there's no, it's about the journey and the continued journey and the continued pursuit. And I think for me, once I lose a pursuit of it, then until I'm done, I, it's like, you know, time to go to the next place. Like, you know, throw, throw the dirt on the hole, you know.
- [30:14]
Greg McKeown
Most people in the surfing world think you're the all time, go. Greatest of all time. Do you think today you have been and still are a great surfer?
- [30:26]
Laird Hamilton
Yeah, I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so.
- [30:30]
Greg McKeown
Who's the goat?
- [30:32]
Laird Hamilton
I don't think there is a goat.
- [30:34]
Greg McKeown
So many talented surfers. Ky, Lenny doing crazy stuff.
- [30:37]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [30:38]
Greg McKeown
Garrett McNamara, Pioneer. We'll talk about him in a few minutes.
- [30:41]
Laird Hamilton
Yeah, no, I don't think there's a goat. I don't think. I think that, I think it's, I think it's per. I think it's people's opinion that they just. That and when you look at it, it's like art. What you, what art do you like? You can't say that so and so is the greatest painter because I don't like his paintings. And then you might love his paintings. And then I have another guy I like and you don't like. And I think that that's the, you know, I think that that's. For me, surfing is art. Like this is, this is, this is art. Like this is our self expression. You know, I mean, we're, and we're always trying to box it and, you know, compartmentalize it and this big. And that thing and this thing. And I'm just like, it's, it's. This is, this is a self expression. This is just go express yourself, do what you do and to, you know, and let, and let people like it or not like it. And you know, that, that's the.
- [31:36]
Unknown
I.
- [31:36]
Laird Hamilton
Mean, what I've realized at this point is I just, I do it for myself. I do it for myself like I need it. Like I can just go and do it where no one can see me and I can get as much, if not more fulfillment from it than I can trying to present it and have it be presented. I mean, there's some of that you have to do because it's, you know, there's, you make, you can make money from it and you can feed your family and Take care of your kids and all that stuff. But I realize I could just do it in the dark. If I have me and a couple friends, I can just do it right off the map. Which, you know, it's not always productive for the. For the bigger picture. And so sometimes you have to, you know, participate in that. But after going through, you know, being a child, doing it alone, being lucky to have a picture every once in a while, there was no videos, no cell phone, no nothing. Maybe you got. If somebody shot some film of you and you got it back after they, you know, they processed it and you could show it on something. You could see it. There was months, years, whatever. So that. So that part of it. So. And then I. Into the middle of my career where we were shooting everything, and every time you go out, you shoot, you're filming and you're shooting, and then what that does to the. To the. To the energy, what that does to the whole experience, and then kind of going away from that and then just having, you know, pursued some moments of just solitude with just friends and in a remote place doing something, the thing you love. I mean, at the end, for me, I'm like, okay, great. Like, that's. I'm good. Like, I can do that. That's. That's all I need, so. Which is beautiful.
- [33:18]
Greg McKeown
Let's talk about the popularity of surfing. There's 40 million surfers in the world, 2.5 million in the United States. What are the top three reasons people love surfing so much?
- [33:27]
Laird Hamilton
Top three?
- [33:28]
Greg McKeown
Top three.
- [33:31]
Laird Hamilton
Number one, the relationship with the ocean. You're in the ocean, you're at the beach, or you're at. You're at a. I mean, surf. Surf locations and the ocean, I mean, they're. They're. They're normally beautiful places. The energy you get from being in that environment, there's. There's a. There's, you know, scientific data around, you know, absorption of energy transfer of thing, like the whole. What the ocean does for you. And so the top three reasons, you know, like, all in one, that you get a relationship with the ocean. You're in the ocean. I mean, of course, there is a difficulty about it that people like the challenge. It's unique and different every time. Every wave is different. Even at the same place on the same day, every single wave is a unique, different wave. And I think that. I think the difficulty draws people to it as well. Especially I know guys that like hard things. And it's hard. Like, it says surfing is not an easy thing. And most of the great surfers that you see, they started when they're three years old and they surf their whole life. And so you see them, you're like, you know, they make it look easy. You know, the better people are at things, the easier they make it look. So I think the challenge of it, the location, the challenge, the uniqueness, you know, and then. And then there's no, you know, there's not a lot of rules. I mean, there's a couple etiquette rules when you're in the lineup, and some people obey them and some people don't. But besides that, it's freedom. This is a very free place. You could just. You can surf however you want, and no one's going, hey, you know, you got to surf like this or like that or you got to do this or do that. I mean, we subject ourselves to that, that constraint, but otherwise it's pretty freedom. It's pretty like, just get your paint brush out and paint whatever you want.
- [35:12]
Unknown
I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach the next level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google, lift and Seagate. And I also co founded a couple company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey and at this stage in my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did in my own journey. I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others. I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity.
- [35:54]
Greg McKeown
Opportunity.
- [35:55]
Unknown
In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions, and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video.
- [36:05]
Greg McKeown
So I wake surf.
- [36:06]
Unknown
Yep.
- [36:07]
Greg McKeown
We have a boat up in Coeur d'. Alene. We're going for the whole summer. Can't wait. On Father's Day.
- [36:11]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [36:12]
Greg McKeown
Fun. Yeah, but I can surf. I'm not running into people.
- [36:15]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [36:15]
Greg McKeown
So someone who doesn't surf on a regular wave you see 30 people out there. They're all trying to catch the same wave. How in the hell do people not run each other over and crash?
- [36:25]
Laird Hamilton
All they, all the time, every day, all day they're running into each other and crashing into each other and falling and getting hit by boards. And, I mean, that's just, you know, that's what a crowded lineup does when it. Especially when it's not. When there's not a pecking order, you know, like in places that the surf is a lot more aggressive, where the consequences are greater, you have a pecking order in the lineup.
- [36:51]
Greg McKeown
So if, if you're out there, Laird Hamilton's out there. He's going first.
- [36:56]
Laird Hamilton
I mean, normally. Yeah, yeah. One of the. Whoever it is, like, whoever. Whoever's the, The. The. You know, there's going to be three or four guys that are like the, the best guys at that break.
- [37:07]
Greg McKeown
Yeah.
- [37:07]
Laird Hamilton
That surf it all the time.
- [37:08]
Greg McKeown
Yeah.
- [37:08]
Laird Hamilton
And there's gonna. And there's a pecking order. And normally, you know, there's. There's like a. There's a top group that kind of takes care. You know, they take turns amongst themselves.
- [37:19]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [37:20]
Laird Hamilton
And then as you go down the ladder, then you're just waiting for the crumbs on the side. Like, if you're a beginner and you're coming into a place like that or you're an intermediate surfer and you're trying to enter a lineup like Pipeline or Teohoopo or Malibu, even Jaws. Yeah, But Malibu is a little. A little bit more free run because you have a ton of people are just learning how. Yeah, of course you're going to have three or four guys that know what they're doing, and they're going to always catch everything when. If they're in the right spot, they're going to catch. They're going to catch all the waves, but. But more so at these other breaks. But yeah, you need a pecking order in the lineup. You, you do. You need. Malibu has a problem because they don't really have a pecking order, so it's just a free for all. So everybody's just dropping in on everybody, and it's a little chaotic, and it ends up making it very difficult to serve because it's just people in the way.
- [38:07]
Greg McKeown
When you go out there, the people say, oh, my God, Laird Hamilton is here.
- [38:11]
Laird Hamilton
I mean, you have everything right. When the thing about. It's like Gabby talks about, like, if you're, if you, if you're great at a sport, you don't go to your Local field and go play with some guys where they can just talk smack and ask you questions and inner you don't intertwine with them. And surfing's weird like that where, you know, you can be John, John Florence or Kelly Slater or whoever, great surfer, and you paddle out, you're going to be with the beginners, the intermediate and then the good guys like you're, and you're all going to be like that. It's like, you know, it's like Michael Jordan's not stepping on a basketball court and having some guy that's just learning how to play banging into him, you know, or in his way when he's going to go do a layup or something. Right. So we, we have that. And, and so that, that could create hostility, you know, that could create a little, a little. Or, and, or just an interaction of just that, you know, that normally you wouldn't have to deal with. You wouldn't have to be dealing with, you know, dumb questions. I always say dumb questions deserve dumb answers.
- [39:19]
Greg McKeown
So we're gonna get into the details of big wave surfing. But for those people who don't know what's the difference between regular surfing and big wave surfing?
- [39:30]
Laird Hamilton
Well, a big wave riding is just when the level of discomfort is high enough that most of the people don't want to do it pretty much what height is that, for example, what varies at what location and what. But as soon as the waves, I mean it happens a lot sooner in California because they don't have consistently big surf in Hawaii, it happens later. So you could say in California when the waves get 15 to 20 foot faces, then that probably is all of a sudden like that's, that's, that's going to be a bigger day and you know, fearing. Right. Most people are going to be fearing for themselves. And then when you go to Hawaii, that's more common. So you're going to need it to be, you know, 25 to 30 foot faces or, you know, and so on. But big is just when it gets, when there's a level of discomfort that gets most people, you know, sitting on the side. That's how I look at it.
- [40:28]
Greg McKeown
Go back to the 1980s.
- [40:30]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [40:30]
Greg McKeown
And you're with your buddy Buzzy Kerbox again.
- [40:33]
Unknown
Yep.
- [40:34]
Greg McKeown
And you guys revolutionized the sport of surfing by, invented, by inventing toe in surfing.
- [40:40]
Unknown
Yep.
- [40:40]
Laird Hamilton
Derek, Derek Doner, Buzzy Kirbox and myself playing around in the summertime, which usually I always say the greatest ideas come out of boredom. So we're bored. It's summertime and Buzzy had a Zodia Zodiac, one of those Navy Seal like 16 foot with an outboard on it, like you see. And we're towing each other around with a, you know, like early wakeboarding, this is pre wakeboarding. There really wasn't. Wakeboarding hadn't really started yet. We're just, we called it free boarding. So freeboarding was pre wakeboarding, which was just being towed behind a boat with a surfboard. And that happened. You know, I think they were doing it in the 50s, even before that. And so we were playing around and there was a little swell, some little waves, and I, I, and I'm not sure how it was, but either I whipped one of those guys on or I got whipped on, but it, a light bulb went off in our head that, that we could get pulled onto waves and ride waves and that we had had an issue with a kind of a, a barrier that was stopping us from being able to catch bigger waves in the wintertime. And, and we had been wind surfing on Big Wa. Been able to be on them with power. So we knew that there was a kind of a merger of. And so we, we implemented that technique the next winter.
- [42:02]
Greg McKeown
Explain what it is though. Like how, how do you, like what, what does tow in mean for the people that don't know?
- [42:07]
Laird Hamilton
Yeah, it's a little bit like the space shuttle and gets on the back of a 747 and the 747 takes off. And then at a certain speed, the space shuttle can fly. So it's exactly like that. You're getting pulled behind the boat, the boat positions you. Or now the jet ski, because that's a much better device. Now the jet Ski positions you onto the wave. And so now you're on your surfboard. The, the driver puts you in position and then you let go and then you can ride the wave because now you're already on it and now you can surf the wave and then the guy can get out of the wave so he doesn't either get in your way or get, get, you know, destroyed himself.
- [42:46]
Greg McKeown
So, so.
- [42:48]
Laird Hamilton
And that technique really just revolutionized big wave riding because we had, we have a ceiling in big wave riding due to that the size of the board and the, the speed in which you can manually paddle yourself makes it. So at a certain size and also in a certain conditions, if it's windy and bumpy, that that size comes sooner. But at a certain size of wave, you're just, it's physically impossible to match the speed and be able to make the wave I mean, that, that kind of barrier is being kind of pushed at certain times, but you need such ideal conditions. So you might have a day that's the best day in 20 years. You can push the barrier of how big somebody can physically paddle into, and then you might not see that again for 20 or 30 years. So you're not able to kind of get into these bigger waves where we're towing in. You can be pulled on to most anything. And there's actually another barrier after that I, that I kind of experienced, and there's another barrier which is that the boards themselves become almost physically impossible to ride waves at a certain height. And that's where the desire to foil started, actually.
- [44:01]
Greg McKeown
Okay, we'll get into foiling in a minute. But of course, there was jaws 40 to 50ft.
- [44:06]
Unknown
Yep.
- [44:07]
Greg McKeown
And then Nazare officials, they knew there were big waves there.
- [44:12]
Unknown
Yep.
- [44:12]
Greg McKeown
No one could surf them. They contacted Garrett McNamara.
- [44:15]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [44:16]
Greg McKeown
They went out there and they said, holy shit, look at these waves. Some, you know, 70, 100 foot waves. How did Nazare change the game?
- [44:24]
Laird Hamilton
It's a spectacle, you know, it's right on the shore. You can see it. It's gotten a lot of. A lot of attention. So that, that, I mean, like, everything. Exposure changes the game. Right? I mean, Nazaree's been there for a long time and been killing fishermen and boats. And they got a church out there that they pray to the. All the guys that have drowned over the years that were out in their boats. And maybe the engine broke and the waves came and killed them because they weren't, you know, swimmers or they didn't have flotation devices or whatever. So. But the spectacle. And it's, and it's, it's in Europe. So they, you know, in Portugal, they, they likes the attention. Portugal likes. It's good for tourism. Promote the spot, you know, promote Nazare. So it's gotten a lot of attention that, that way. I mean, I have mixed feelings about Nazare. I mean, as far as, you know, as a surfer, as a big wave rider, if you talk to most great big wave surfers, Nazare is not an ideal big waiver for surfing. It's just not. And without towing, it would be, you know, there'd be good days there, but it would be on the smaller days when the waves are closer to the shore. But as far as, you know, it does a unique thing. It has an interesting, you know, bottom topography, so it makes the wave double up and takes two waves and turns them in for a moment. And then it dissipates. And so there's some things about it that, you know, it's not as for as far as a performance big wave, it's, it's, it's. You can't compare it to, to Mavericks. You can't compare it to Piahi, which is Jaws. I mean, those are, these are dynamic big wave surfing waves. Nazare is, is a, is kind of a feet wave. I would call it like a. Not feet, but in a feat, like you've done a feat. And they're going for this Guinness World Record thing that I've always been against since the very beginning, only because I think it's impossible to measure a wave truly. It's just you're, you're measuring a four dimensional object with one dimension. It's, you're getting the, it's like I always say that waves are like dogs. There's all different kinds of dogs. There's big dogs, friendly big dogs, and there's savage little dogs, you know, and there's pit bulls and Great Danes and all these. And, and that's, Waves have personalities. More like that. So I look at them more like that. But that's again, that's, you know, I'm, I'm an anomaly.
- [46:55]
Greg McKeown
So, so explain to people what's happening beneath the water and how these big waves form.
- [47:02]
Laird Hamilton
Well, there's, they're usually in a, in a perfect location to receive a giant swell from, from these big open ocean storms. These big, huge storms that have high wind that generate these swells. And they're, and they're, there's a bottom topography that, that has a certain shape that allows them to come in and usually they stick out. It's like a, it's like an outcropping. It's a little point, but it's underwater. And so the waves will come and depending on the shape of that point, it'll either be, you know, no good or it'll be a great, a great wave. And most of them have a lot of, they're pretty similar. Most of these big waves, they usually have a deep canyon next to them and then a big. And then like a big, I'd say like, it looks like a knoll. It's like a. You know what happens a lot of the time is when you look at the land on the land, it's a mimic of what's in the water. So you look at the land wherever that, like you go to Nazarene, you see the point of Nazareth and then you think about that under the water. Is that same point. And so the waves come in and as the water gets shallower, the waves rise up. And depending on how steep the water gets shallow is how fast the waves rise up. And so like in a place like Tahiti, in Teahupo, which is one of the most famous big waves, or one of the most famous tube, which is a cylindrical wave in the world, is. Is on a barrier reef. And the reef is at the perfect angle to absorb the energy of the swell. So it makes the waves stand up in the shortest distance possible, which results in the wave having a giant cavern in it. Right. So if it was long and slopey, then the wave would stand up and march and march and then break a little bit more. Like Nazare has a longer, a longer shelf and so that, that the bottom topography dictates the shape of the wave and the way the wave breaks.
- [48:49]
Greg McKeown
What's the sound? Is there a sound when you're surfing of the wave? Is it, is it deafening? And then when you're.
- [48:56]
Laird Hamilton
What's interesting and I've talked to my friends, you know, McCool, Rothman, other big wave riders and stuff, we don't hear.
- [49:04]
Greg McKeown
Anything, but there actually is a sound.
- [49:07]
Laird Hamilton
But we don't hear anything when we're doing it now, like, I can hear the wave. Like where, when, when I lived on Maui, near Jaws, I could hear it from my house. I could hear like a. It sounded like mortar, like rumble in like a, like in the distance. You could hear like almost like a thunder type of a thing. So, you know, the bigger the surf is, the lower the decibel, the lower the more of the, of the rumble that you hear. And so yeah, I mean, you know, that's. That sound calls you if you're into surfing big waves, when you hear that, you're drawn to that, to that energy and. But yeah, the sound is deafening when you're observing, but when you're doing, it's almost like the sound. And I talked to some friends that were like, have been in gunfights and stuff and they said they don't even remember hearing anything. Like everything just. It's almost like hearing becomes unimportant for the, for what you need unless somebody yells or something and then you'll. But otherwise hearing could just be kind of a useless sense at that point. Like not. You don't need it. So. And the body's only important. The body's only prioritizing what you need. So need the vision, you know, need the feel, need. There's certain things that you need and the body prioritizes that. And so you'll just be like, so a lot of times we don't even have memory for good, maybe a patchy memory from rides and, and situations. Because if you succeed, then the body knows you did the right thing. So it doesn't need a perfect picture. When you fail, then you have a good memory of it. Usually when you crash or have an accident, the body has all full recollection of everything. So to avoid that in the future, if you succeed, the body knows you know how to do the right thing. So it's okay. Having intermittent, you know, frame, it's like, okay, I'm good. I know. I know you know what to do, and you've done it. So we're just going to have a pretty minimal amount of memory.
- [51:10]
Greg McKeown
It's a dangerous sport. From the time you were a kid, you were getting rescued from these riptides almost on a daily basis.
- [51:16]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [51:16]
Greg McKeown
Your mom at one point said she's surprised you made it to 20 years old. Tell us what happened. And you've broken stuff nearly every bone in your body. I mean, every major bone.
- [51:27]
Laird Hamilton
I'm not Travis Pastan. I don't have quite the metal, but yeah, I have a lot of stitches. A lot. A lot of. A lot of wounds. A lot of.
- [51:33]
Greg McKeown
Lot of broke and break breaks. Thanks for listening to part one of my incredible interview with Laird Hamilton.
- [51:39]
Unknown
Be sure to check out part two.
- [51:40]
Greg McKeown
Of my incredible interview with Laird.