← In Search Of Excellence
In Search Of Excellence
Marc Lore : How I Sold My Companies to Amazon & Walmart for Billions | E182
00:47:46
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- [00:00]
Mark Lore
Every day you have to think about the business through clean slate lens. Like knowing everything I've learned up until today, knowing all that information, what would be the strategy and the business model going forward? The only way to ensure that you're going to be able to get what I call sixth gear. Get into sixth gear with that life or death situation is to literally put yourself in a situation where you can't fail.
- [00:19]
Randy
What's your advice to everyone out there who's got a family? You said you got to be all in 100 hours a week, you're working.
- [00:25]
Mark Lore
100 hours a week. All the hours you have left, you go put in your family. If you get to the point where you're eating in a muscle, you know, you got rid of all hobbies, all tv, all chores and you still don't have enough time for family, then maybe you got to figure out a different way.
- [00:56]
Randy
Welcome to In Search of Excellence. My guest today is Mark Lore, the billionaire owner of the Minnesota Timberwolves. Serial entrepreneur sold Diapers.com to Amazon for $545 million and then Jet.com to Walmart for $3.3 billion. Mark, thanks for being here. Welcome to In Search of Excellence.
- [01:15]
Mark Lore
Thanks Randy. Great to be here.
- [01:16]
Randy
We'll get to the pit in a second, but I want to focus on your head of risk management at Sanwell. When you left executive vice president, you were exhausted and you quit without having another job. Is that craziness?
- [01:30]
Mark Lore
That's pretty crazy. Yeah, looking back was, that was crazy. It's not something, you know, I'd recommend to my, my daughters to do, but it is consistent with this idea that when you're an entrepreneur, you sort of leave no escape hatch open, no plan B. You sort of just go for it where you can't afford to fail. And so I had a baby at the time, had saved some money in banking, invested all that money into the new startup and couldn't fail. When basically in any startup, if there's a easy out, I think people sometimes just take it. It's hard. It's very hard. So the only way to ensure that you're going to be able to get what I call sixth gear, get into sixth gear. It's that life or death situation, is to literally put yourself in a situation where you can't fail. And that's what I've always done, even, even now when I've put myself in these situations.
- [02:21]
Randy
My goal before we started our tech company was I wanted to put money away. So. And I figured my nut was, was 40K a year. So I worked at Sun America. I was the assistant to the chairman. It's great job. Stock options, number one performing stock on the New York Stock Exchange for one, three, five and seven year period of time. The problem was there were a lot of young people who had been there five, six, seven years. They were worth tens of millions of dollars. So there was nowhere for me to go.
- [02:48]
Mark Lore
Okay?
- [02:49]
Randy
And so I figured, all right, I got 10 years to make something of myself. And I left when I was 30 years old. And I figure, okay, this is crazy, but I'm going to commute to a Boston unfunded, untested, unproven company with no CEO, sleeping on friends couches. And it worked. You started the pit when you were 28 years old, you raised $4 million, and 10 months later, you sold the tops for 5.7 million. It was the first time you really raised money.
- [03:16]
Mark Lore
Yeah, not. No institutional, though.
- [03:18]
Randy
All.
- [03:18]
Mark Lore
All angels.
- [03:19]
Randy
So for everyone listening, the entrepreneurs out there, what did you do to raise your first round of capital from investors? Who did you go to?
- [03:27]
Mark Lore
So I didn't know anybody with money. It turned out 80 investors put in about 50 grand each on 80. 80.
- [03:35]
Randy
It's a lot to manage.
- [03:36]
Mark Lore
80, 50 grand. You know, I think the biggest investor might've been 250. And the smallest was like, you know, 10 or 25,000. I think it's 10,000.
- [03:43]
Randy
By the way, for everyone listening, the smallest investor is usually the biggest pain in the ass.
- [03:48]
Mark Lore
Always. Always. Even to this day? Even to this day. But how it started was because people say, oh, you must have known people money. I didn't know anybody at that time. My boss at Sanwar bank, who thought I was absolutely insane to just quit to do this was like, no, you. I feel like there's something, you know, that I don't know here because you're quitting this incredible job to go do this. Like, you've got an incredible drive. I like to invest 50 grand in this. So that was my first. 50,000 was from my. My boss, Jerry Goldstein at San Jua Bank. I said, Great, Jerry, 50 is great, but I need a lot more 50s. Do you know anyone? This is what I always tell people. Anybody invest? But they don't invest. Like, do you know anyone? And he gave me two friends of his, and I went to see them. I don't remember where they invested or did it. I think one of them did, one of them didn't. But the one that did. I asked for two friends, and the one that didn't, I asked for two friends, I probably pitched 250 different individuals and got 80. So that was a pretty good hit rate. It was like one in three. Institutions are not that way, but angels are easier than institutions. But the reason why I was able to get such a high rate and do it is because I was putting my own money into it. So I never forget one investor. He's like, no, I'm not interested, but just curious how much you invest in your own money. I said, oh, yeah, 390,000. And he's like, wow, that's a big number for someone your age. Okay, wait, sorry, why did you say 390? Why didn't you invest 400? Said, oh, because I only have 390,000 in my account. He goes, you put your entire life savings in this? I said, yeah, and I'm prepared to, like, mortgage the house too, if I need to. And that switched him. He went from a no to a yes right there. And I realized how powerful that line was. So I always started with that with investors, hey, just so you know, I'm putting my entire life savings in this. And that was. That was really the catalyst. And I think too many entrepreneurs are afraid to take the risk, but it's. They say, okay, putting the 390,000 in, that's too risky. But what I. And I'm actually writing a book about this, but it's how taking risk reduces the ultimate risk. It's like, actually less risky because by putting the 390,000 in, I just increased the probability of getting the funding. And we all know companies that don't make it, they don't make it because they don't have funding. And so if you can actually reduce the risk of getting funded by taking risk, you can argue that you're better off. And I've always done that. Even now at wonder, I'm putting in an extraordinary amount of my own money at risk to reduce the risk of the company not working.
- [06:24]
Mentor/Coach
I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach the next level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google, Lift, and Seagate. And I also co founded a company that today is worth More than 50, $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey and at this stage in my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned So you can reach incredible success way faster than I did. In my own journey. I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others, and I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions, and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video.
- [07:16]
Randy
I'm sure this has happened to you, but I've probably taken over the last 20, 25 years, 500 to a thousand in person pitches. And it's not like I want to meet with all the people who contact me. Right. There's some due diligence and screening that goes on, and I think all but maybe a handful of five. There's people come in, I've experienced, I made money. This is my third sale. And then you got guys or women in their 30s or 40s, they come in, you know, yeah, look at what I've done. And then they're raising money and said, how much of your own money are you putting in? Oh, no, I've. My sweat equity is my. Is my money.
- [07:53]
Mark Lore
Right.
- [07:53]
Randy
I said, no, it's not. Your sweat equity is not your money if you're not eating your own cooking. I'm not eating your cooking either. Akamai. We raised money. I'd say $400,000. And I put in $100,000 of my own money. And people thought. And I was paying for our own wedding. I was engaged and thought, oh, gosh, you know, people thought I had lost my friggin mind. And it ended up being a very good investment at the end of the day. And what I tell people all the time coming in, even young entrepreneurs who, because I'll say you're coming in to me asking for my capital. Right. I'm a. You're asking. I'm a fiduciary of this capital. So I want to know, how much of your money are you putting in? I have not met with a single entrepreneur under 30 years old, even with a successful exit who's put in a penny of their own capital. And it scares me.
- [08:46]
Mark Lore
Yeah.
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Randy
By the way, investors will fund it all day long.
- [08:50]
Mark Lore
Yeah.
- [08:51]
Randy
You know, most of these companies, I'd say no.
- [08:53]
Mark Lore
I, I love Though I mean the idea of having your own money is in at stake is it's a different level motivator. Every single company I think would have failed had I not had this sort of like this can't fail mentality. Had my own money at stake.
- [09:10]
Randy
So yeah, you got a great new idea. You're threatening an incumbent Dropbox star. Steve Jobs tries to buy Dropbox. Drew Houston says no way. And Steve says I'm going to crush you. You've got this diaper site, 1, 800 diapers. Great name. You got to get a great, great phone number. Phone number is huge. And then Jeff Bezos comes along and says I'm going to undercut you. We can be a loss leader. We have a lot more product than, than you do. And what was your reaction when you heard Jeff Bezos is going to try to crush you? And then here you go, you, you turn around and he buys a company for $545 million. 500 cash. 45 in debt. Not that long after that.
- [09:55]
Mark Lore
Yeah, I mean first of all that was even though that was life changing money at the time because that was the first, you know, real exit. It was very depressing day because put so much time, just mental energy into wanting to build something great and to be sort of in a position to force, force basically to sell. It was, yeah, it was really depressing. And even though it was life changing.
- [10:18]
Randy
Money, more Runway to go.
- [10:20]
Mark Lore
Yeah. And it was life changing money. I mean it was never had to work again kind of kind of money. And it didn't matter. It was literally my co founder Vinnie best friend. We, we after the sale we're like should we celebrate? He's like, you want to? No, mean I don't want to either.
- [10:36]
Randy
Right.
- [10:36]
Mark Lore
Like it wasn't so that at that point I really learned, you know, the difference between a mercenary and a missionary, you know, in terms of like why we were doing this. Like it was so clear it wasn't about the money. Because if it was about the money, I mean it was like crazy money at the time to be made and we weren't even wanting to celebrate the exit. I, I still, I still think back to what could have been. You know, had had really the issue was Amazon had spooked investors. Investors didn't want to invest in us because they knew Amazon had had clear targeted us with the 30% off diapers. Which sort of crazy at the time.
- [11:15]
Randy
When Walmart came in with a last minute bid of 625 or $650 million. Did you say I Mean, could you have gotten out of the deal with Amazon and, and taken the extra, you know, $100 million? So why didn't you do it?
- [11:34]
Mark Lore
Because if there was any adverse change in the business, Walmart could have walked away. And we thought that there would be an adverse change because Amazon would have. Yeah, they might have done some stuff. So yeah, so we took, took 100 million less.
- [11:48]
Randy
Amazon shut down the business years later. You stayed for a couple years, you left, then they shut down the business. I think six years later. Painful?
- [11:56]
Mark Lore
No, no, I think the, the pain was already in what I call selling out. You know, it was, it was sort of, there wasn't, there wasn't any pain that when they shut it down.
- [12:10]
Randy
One of the interesting things that you did at the time you were at the forefront of technology was something called Kiva robots that has been revolutionary for e commerce warehouse type businesses. It was developed by a nuclear PhD who had written some crazy software. Amazon had bought the company two years after you were using it for $775 million. Great acquisition. Clearly, how important were those robots in your success of the business? And where do you see technology going today and the e commerce business besides AI and then including AI.
- [12:48]
Mark Lore
So I think at that time it was revolutionary, this idea that robots, you know, in a big warehouse with millions of products, having somebody go fetch a product and bring it back and put it in the box is very expensive. The idea of the cable robots was what if the product was being brought to you and it would not bring just a product but the whole shelf? The robot would slide under the shelf, lift it and then bring the shelving unit so you can stay, you know, in one location as a picker and just pick off the shelf. The shelf would disappear, a new shelf would drive up. And so it was very revolutionary. And I think maybe in part due to the reason why Amazon was interested in what we're doing because we were extremely efficient on the logistics side where it's going in the future. I think conversational commerce is, is the future of retail. No, no question. The idea that you would just be talking to, you know, AI and it would be the most knowledgeable like person you've ever talked to about that specific product. Like on a showroom floor of a, of a retailer, I would know you like your best friend does or your, your parents or whatever. I mean and you would just converse, say what you want and then in the future I think just see hologram images of the products and be able to see it right there. We're not quite there yet, but I think that's all coming. I think certainly conversational commerce is going to blow up in the, in the next decade. And then hologram displays of the products. This idea, and I've, I've said it many years ago, this idea that you would put a product in a search engine that you're looking for and see all these results and scan through them. That's going to go the way the cassette tape. That's not like, that's not going to be part of our future.
- [14:21]
Randy
Explain that a little bit more.
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Mark Lore
Like when you go into a search engine, you go into Amazon or Walmart and you type in black boots or whatever, and then you just get this list of like thousands of black boots and you're sort of going through them and trying to figure out and reading the descriptions and things. Like, you won't be typing in black boots like that. It'll, you'll just be using your voice and just saying, you know, I'm looking for a pair of black boots, but much more personalized. Like, we'll know, you know, the kind of boots you typically like or shoes or the outfits you typically wear, and we'll be able to have a conversation about it. No, I, I don't, I don't like those. Those are a little bit too high. Do you have something lower? Good. Actually, you know, let me, let me see if, if these fit now, these little tight. Let me try. You know, it's, it's like just back and forth on, on how to purchase. It'll be much more personalized that we won't be having to weed through tons and tons of stuff because your own personal AI will, will know your look.
- [15:23]
Randy
So 10 years ago, you're 42 years old, you start a company called Jet.com and your front fundraising prowess continues to raise $820 million. And 28 months later, Walmart buys a company for $3.3 billion. Scale works until it doesn't work. So what happened there? And how are you able to sell a business that ultimately in Walmart's hands didn't work and they shut it down a few years later?
- [15:54]
Mark Lore
Well, this, this was a different situation than, than the Amazon sale in that we were actually very excited about this sale because it wasn't selling out. It was. When I say selling out, I mean, really you have a vision for what you want to create, and then when the vision is no longer valid, I call that selling out. Because you had a vision and now you can't pursue the vision. With Walmart, they said how would you like to continue to pursue the exact vision you had for Jet, but do it with the resources of Walmart? So, Mark, we're going to give you the keys to be CEO of Walmart E Commerce. And you bring JET and Walmart E Comm. Together and create a real formidable E. Com company. We'll give you capital. You'll have access to like 3,500 retail stores, which is a big advantage. Were the number one grocer in the country. So it's very exciting. You know, it was. Even though the company was sold in the sense that the shareholders were no longer. In terms of my personal passion and the team as well, we were even more motivated because we had all the resources of Walmart behind us. And so it was my decision in the case of Jet to merge Jet and Walmart Econ together. It didn't make sense to have two separate brands and have. And so we could put all the resources together on. On one brand. And it was a fantastic run. I was there for four and a half years and learned a ton. And yeah, we did some pretty good. Pretty good stuff.
- [17:26]
Randy
The team tell everybody what it's like to actually sell a company for $3.3 billion. I think people read, oh, we had a sale on Doug McMillan. I think it was a CEO at the time. Just comes in and says, hey, Mark, you know, let me write you a check for $3.3 billion. What was the first bid? And then how long did it take for you to actually negotiate that price? Where did. Where did he start?
- [17:50]
Mark Lore
Well, I think. I think he asked, if I remember correctly, sort of what we were looking for and that he came to you.
- [17:57]
Randy
Individually or had bankers that were.
- [18:00]
Mark Lore
There's no bankers. I've never used a banker in diapers or jets, so it's just me. I think the initial meeting with Doug was just talking about how maybe we can work together, maybe they can invest in us, maybe we can help them. It was just sort of a more strategic conversation. And we continued to talk and then I think we both realized maybe it'd be more fun to do this together and join forces more officially. And so I think he. He asked if, you know, we'd be open to that. And I said, you know, we would. And he asked, you know, what price we're looking for. You know, we had raised, you know, around. I think it was a $1.6 billion valuation. Rough Post money the previous round. And I thought, you know, if we're going to sell, it should be a nice markup from what we had just raised. So I think I proposed 3 billion to Doug.
- [18:50]
Randy
I worked at Sun America. Eli Ro was my boss. I was technically in the Corp Dev group. That was my main job where we would go out and we look for companies. And then it starts with Azel. Goldman was our banker. So they come in, they do the whole pitch. These are eight companies and, you know, who do you want to meet with? And Sun America was a highly profitable company. So it's hard for us to pay up and not to dilute earnings. And at some point, you know, said, okay, I want to meet with CEO of Concico, which was a competitor in. In the business, or First Colony was a competitor. So it starts with a phone call and then someone goes to meet someone in person. So how does that actually work? Is Doug calling you because he's interested or are you meeting him at some conference or. And then who goes to who first?
- [19:37]
Mark Lore
Yeah, I think. Well, I think I went to him multiple times, had the first discussion on strategy, when had a second, third, and he introduced some people and stuff. So, yeah, it was. It was me going to see Doug. I don't. I think at some point he came when. When we sort of had a sort of tentative deal. Then he came and, you know, met some of the folks and things on our side. I don't know exactly when he came to Jet, but I had a few conversations with him before that.
- [20:05]
Randy
So let's talk about wonder, which is nine years old. You've raised.
- [20:12]
Mark Lore
Seven.
- [20:12]
Randy
Seven years old. Okay, so you've raised a ton of money again, You're. You're the fundraising king. And the valuation of the company today is reportedly $7 billion. You started one way and then you pivoted $100 million. Said, okay, that doesn't work. I'm now going to do this. Tell us about Wonder and what the pivot is and how critical it is for entrepreneurs to listen to customers know what's working and not have their blinders on.
- [20:45]
Mentor/Coach
I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach the next level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested in nearly 100, including Google, lift and Seagate. And I also co founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey and at this stage in my life. I want to give back. I want to Share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did in my own journey. I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others and I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video.
- [21:41]
Mark Lore
Yeah. That is probably one of the hardest things to do and one of the most important as an entrepreneur. Every day to think about the business through clean slate lens, like knowing everything I've learned up until today, knowing all that information, what would be the strategy and the business model going forward? It's easier said than done because you sort of get tunnel vision. And so I think the first few years I wasn't at the company, we had this vision for a vertically integrated food delivery platform. The way to vertically integrate was rather than cook and then deliver, it was deliver then cook. That was the idea that could we in the back room of Sadie sprinter van have the driver pull up in front of somebody's house and be able to cook a Bobby Flay steak in six minutes to perfect temp and bring it to your door hot like that was the idea and I think it was a great idea and customers absolutely loved it. Obviously cooked outside your door. We invested a lot of money in the technology to be able to cook fast in a small space like the back room of Sadie sprinter van, high quality food. So that's where all the investment in the first few years went. We had 450 trucks on the road. It's about $100 million worth of trucks on the road. Customers were loving it. The economics were definitely challenging. We still saw a path to this model working, but it was heavy catbacks, hard to find parking, bathroom breaks were actually a real issue, believe it or not, because you couldn't afford to like in the middle of peak just go and try to find a bathroom for somebody. So that was an issue. And then right around the time that I joined as CEO, which was end of 22, been about three years now. At the end of 22 we had just tested a brick and mortar because we built this technology to cook in A really small space. We thought, what if we put all 30 restaurants that we had into one small kitchen. We set a tight delivery radius to see if we set a tight radius and we cooked it and gave it to a courier, could we get it to people's house where it's hot and not that much different than being cooked outside your door in terms of being able to hold the heat and customer scores. What we realized is, yeah, we can, we can get it there fast enough that there wasn't any degradation in, in food quality. But more importantly, multi restaurant ordering was unlocked, which was a big thing. People can now order from multiple restaurants and get one delivery because it's coming out of the same kitchen. Where the trucks were individual restaurant per truck. So that was a big customer unlock. It was more reliable, believe it or not as well, because the trucks had some level of volatility. Whereas the brick and mortar, you can understand the throughput and kind of where you were. And then more importantly, the brick and mortar can go to urban, suburban, rural, bigger tam, much lower capex per revenue dollar and more profitable. And there's no bathroom issues and there's no parking issues. So it was a superior business model. But we had three weeks of data burning a lot of cash. I came in as CEO and had to take the lesson. I just, I just gave on clean sheet. Starting today, forget about the fact you have 450 trucks on the road. That's a sunk cost. Starting today, what would you do? The trucks or the brick and mortar? Even though you only have three weeks of data, what would you do today? And I said, hands down, I do brick and mortar. So that once in my head I, I got that as fast as humanly possible. I told the board, the company investors that we are stopping the trucks taking revenue to zero. We had decent revenue on the 450 trucks taking revenue to zero. We're going to sell the trucks for 80% loss, lose $80 million in the trucks and we're going to open up our first brick and mortar. We're going to rush to do it and do it In February of 23, by the end of February and get our first one open. And yeah, that was, as you can imagine, a tough conversation with the employees, with the board, with investors. But I knew deep down that that was, that was the right decision and that was a superior business model. And here we are, you know, today, three years later, in the next couple months, he'll open our hundredth unit.
- [25:52]
Randy
So congrats.
- [25:54]
Mark Lore
It's. Yeah, it was quite. But that's that's, that's startup founder life. You know, you're, you have to be nimble, you have to be able to pivot, take it on the chin, as they say. We took it on the chin, I took it on the chin, you know. But the vision was, was unchanged. Vertically integrated food delivery. Own the restaurants, own the delivery only experience, end to end and deliver. A superior delivery experience like that, that didn't change. It was really the way in which we went about it. So a lot of people were just, you know, in the company would say no, but we're, we're a truck business and now we're not a truck business. And I said, no, we're not truck business. We're superior food delivery business. We're vertically integrated. Nothing's changed. We're vertically integrated, superior food delivery of great quality food fast, on time, hot. That's not changing. The vehicle's changing, but that's not changing. So once we got people comfortable that it really was the same vision, just with a better strategy, I think it was easier to get people comfortable.
- [26:58]
Randy
Everybody out there has had a situation where they sold something prematurely. I remember I first started getting into crypto from interns in 2017 and buying Bitcoin. Said, okay, buy it for $2,500 and sell it for 3,200. It was so volatile. Yeah, okay, I'm going to make 15%, 20% and bought, bought a bunch of bitcoin. Then we were buying these altcoins, you know, all shit companies, and made some money, lost some money. And I said, oh, gosh, if I had held all that bitcoin. Thankfully I still own some bitcoin, but it'd be a very different financial picture. On the, on the bitcoin Google, before they went public, I had some Google stock again, like the dot com crashed and everyone's like, oh, shit, we're, we're, you know, let's take the profit. So took a bunch of profit. Looked like a really great return. And I looked and I was with my wife in the car maybe a year ago and I said, oh, gosh, you know, I do, I really don't want to do the math on this, but let me just go back to the stock that I sold, right? You know, when the lockup came off, it came off in five different tranches and it was something like $34 million. But you don't know. I mean, Google was one of five publicly traded search engines at the time. And, you know, things look very different. Look very, very different. So you were In a similar situation on the other side, buying a professional basketball team in the Minnesota Timberwolves, where the Glenn Taylor had sold you, I think you bought 20% with a partner, a rod with your partner, and then you had a couple of different tranches where you could buy more of the team and at the end of the day, buy the whole team. He said no, because the value of the team had skyrocketed. So you had a $1.7 billion valuation, then it was worth 1.5 or 1.5, and it was worth 3.1. So $1.7 billion, and you won the lawsuit. Tell us what that was like. When you first learned he wasn't going to sell the team, were you an odds that, hey, man, we're going to. We're going to get this, we're going to win. Was there ever a point where you thought you weren't going to get the team?
- [29:05]
Mark Lore
No, we always thought we were in the right because we had a contract and it was an ironclad contract. But it was back to the bully thing. Full circle with the Reggie Jackson, I remember was heading down on. On vacation. And we're like weeks away from taking full control over the team and started. Phones started blowing up on the plane on vacation. Blowing up. You know, Glenn Taylor sent out a press release saying he's no longer selling the team. We're like, what? And it's just everywhere, all over the press. We didn't have the money. He's not selling it. And I remember, like, that whole vacation was shot. It was like on the phone all day, every day, talking to Alex, talking. You know, it was just mayhem. But it felt like. Like back to the bully days, right? Because, you know, we had a contract. And, you know, he'd always said, you know, I'm a man of my word. It's a con, you know, it's. It's just felt like, I don't know, blindsided. You know, it was really hurtful that it was done in that way as well, like just public, without us even knowing and finding out, reading in the press. So we were going to do everything we possibly could do to. To make sure that, yeah, we were on the right side of that. So what'd you do? It was painful.
- [30:21]
Randy
What'd you do?
- [30:22]
Mark Lore
Hired Wachtel. You know, it's the best. One of the best, if not the best law firm. And very expensive, very time consuming. Yeah, we had. We had to do it.
- [30:32]
Randy
What was the first thing you did when you got word that it was yours?
- [30:37]
Mark Lore
Similar feeling when I said about Diapers.com being kind of depressed. It wasn't depressed, but it wasn't the feeling you would think. You would think there would be some euphoria, like, and me and Alex would go out and celebrate and we won and everything, but it's hard. It's like, you know, you're getting. You're getting beat up, right? And you're just face is punched in and you're on the ground, you're bleeding, you can barely move. And then the person that was beating you up, somebody grabs them and pulls them off you, and they're like, how do you feel? Great. Faces punched in. It's like, yeah, you're happy that the person is not beating you up anymore. Right. But it's hard to celebrate when you've been beaten up and emotionally taken advantage of, you know, like, it was like painful, like, emotionally, physically, like, it was. It was. You know, so after we won, it was sort of like a relief, but it was like, we both need to heal and, and recover before. I'm not even fully recovered today, and this is many months ago. Hopefully this season, like, we can get back into it and. And get back to the fun of owning the team. And for all the reasons that, you know, we got into it in the first place. But we were beat up. It was. It was tough. It was. Nobody feel should feel sorry for us. You know, we did, you know, by the team and it worked. And the team's up in value, so. But, you know, it's. It was not something I'd want to do over again.
- [32:10]
Randy
He grew up a Knicks fan to the point where I think when your sister was six years old, she'd come in the room.
- [32:16]
Mark Lore
Yeah.
- [32:16]
Randy
You guys would talk about players and numbers. When a team comes available for sale, I mean, everyone wants from Wired. It's a fun. It's a trophy property or a sports fan. But had you ever been to Minnesota before and spent any time there before you bought the team?
- [32:30]
Mark Lore
No. No, that was the first time was buying the team.
- [32:36]
Randy
And so what. What was the excitement of buying that team? Why buy the Timberwolves? And why not just wait to some other team that you may have liked better, the city or you'd been there and had more affinity to came for sale?
- [32:52]
Mark Lore
Yeah, well, Alex and I tried to buy the New York Mets before, and that was ultimately a failed attempt at it. I think we liked basketball. So first of all, it was a childhood dream. You know, I mean, when you start off as a little kid in Staten island playing basketball and things you know, you dream about being in the NBA and actually playing. It wasn't long before it was clear that wasn't going to happen. And then you, and then you as a kid, you start dreaming about owning a team or something, but just a fantasy, not even a true dream, but it was always in the back of your head. As a kid who loved sports, playing sports, following sports, was a big Knicks fan. After we had failed with the Mets, we felt like, oh, there's a reason why this didn't work out. You know, like we both felt that there's going to be, there's a reason why this didn't work out. And when we got the call about, about the Timberwolves, I don't know, it just felt like this, this might be, this might be the reason. And I think for Alex and I both grew up in a very similar way, of a similar set of values. It was really an underdog story to us. They'd only been in the playoffs once, I think in the last 18 years or something before, before we bought it. It was a great sports city, really. Like the people that we met there. It was, it was sort of a. People just seem really down to earth and, and kind. And I think those are our kind of people. And we just kind of very quickly fell in love with the city, fell in love with the story, the history, the team, the fact that they were underdogs, loved the NBA and the future of the NBA and how much potential it had. We like the fact that it was also the wnba, so we had both WNBA and the NBA team. So we got, you know, two for one, basically, which was also, you know, being a dad of two daughters. I really like that, that part of it as well. Yeah. And then, and then the price was fair at the time. It was during COVID So that was a little scary. We were kind of a little naive and we, we kind of jumped on it very quickly. But then it all, it all worked out.
- [34:56]
Randy
You're listening to part two of my incredible interview with Mark Laurie, one of the great serial entrepreneurs of our day, who's had several billion dollar exits and has raised billions of dollars for his companies. He's also the owner episode of Tomorrow's Basketball Team. If you haven't yet listened to part one, be sure to check that one out first. Now, without further ado, here's part two of my awesome interview with Mark. In my coaching business, professional coaching business, I coach entrepreneurs, founders, people with $40 million. Manufacturing companies, doctors, lawyers, and one of the things that people come to Me for is, hey, I just need someone, I need a motivator, I need a coach coach. I need a business strategist. And the first meeting that I have, I said, all right, like the first step is you got to make a plan. You can't do any of this without a plan. And, and we go through family, the hours, work, work ethic, everything. And you got to lay out your financial picture for me. And a lot of these people said, I'm just going to do better. I'm going to put money away and things will work out. I press people and say, well, have you actually thought about and make a budget? Do you. What age do you want to retire? Are you paying for your. How much does that cost? How much are you making after tax? Put that money aside. Earning in the bank average percent and 2% of people have done that. You made a financial plan very early on in your career and your by the time you were 20, by the time you were 30 and by the time you were 40 can share, can you share those goals with people? And then what's your advice? Should everyone be doing this?
- [36:33]
Mark Lore
Sure, I think it's a good idea. Yeah. In terms of financial plan, I mean, I was, I set some goals. You know, when I first got to Bankers Trust, it was kind of silly, you know, you know, grew up watching my dad be what I call a mercenary, where working was only about money. There was no purpose, it was just make money. And so that's the way I was kind of thinking about job until I learned about the sort of missionary part of it and how driven by a real mission is much better than being driven by, by the dollar. And so I had created a sign. And this is me just starting the bank day one. And it put it in my cubicle and it said, salary goals, six figures by 26, seven figures by 37, eight figures by 48. I just had it there. And I remember all the traders and stuff, you know, they just loved that sign. It was, yeah, just like a motivator. Every day get to the desk and look at the sign and think, okay, I own 22, I got four years. I got to make and make 100 grand a year, you know. And then, and then of course I realized, you know, when I started my first startup and the reason why I left banking because the being motivated by just making more and more money every year wasn't doing it for me. It wasn't motivated. I didn't feel happy. And when I realized, you know, in the startup that having a, having a mission And a purpose bigger than just dollars and cents could be so fulfilling and really made me happy. And so that's always now, like since. Since the first day, the startup been the primary motivator. I think that's important for any entrepreneur to be really. Because if you're not motivated by the. The mission vision of what you're doing, then you'll make decisions based on dollars and cents. And right now, even to this day, I'll make dumb decisions based on dollars and cents because I so believe in the mission. I'd be putting my money at risk in a way that wouldn't make sense if it weren't for that.
- [38:22]
Randy
Let's talk about ingredients of success. And one of the core ingredients, if not the biggest ingredient of my own success has been something I call extreme preparation, which means preparing more for podcasts than 99%, maybe 100% of interviewers podcast hosts. It means if someone's preparing one hour for a meeting, I'll prepare 10 hours for a meeting. How important has extreme preparation been in your career and your success?
- [38:46]
Mark Lore
I don't sound like I'll do nearly as good job as you in preparation. I think I'm more. I'm willing to outwork anyone so that going with that mentality, I'm going to be the. Even when banking the first one in and the last one to leave every day. So I feel that's sort of one of my superpowers. And I tend to put the cart in front of the horse opposite of preparation. So to jump and then quickly iterate. And when I go to bed every night, I lay down and I basically just run scenarios in my head. You could say it's preparation, but it's really just trying to find the best possible path for the next day based on the vision that you've put out there in the future. And work. I work backwards from the vision and then think about what's the biggest step I could take tomorrow. And I just run these scenarios. It's almost like I play chess and it's almost like, you know, thinking through all the possible combinations of moves. What's the biggest move I can make tomorrow? And then I wake up and try to make those moves. And then. And every day I'm. I'm doing that. So it's, it's. I don't know if I would say use the word preparedness, but I'm definitely jumping and doing the analysis every day to figure out what's the biggest contribution I can make toward division tomorrow.
- [40:04]
Randy
Work ethic has also been critical to my success, I'll work out anybody. And I had a girlfriend in law school that said, you know what, Randy? You may be at the top of your class and make a shitload of money, but you are going to be one miserable son of a. And I said, you know, and it really. I mean, she came from a wealthy family, so she wasn't going to have to work the way that I did.
- [40:26]
Mark Lore
Work.
- [40:26]
Randy
Life balance for you has been very, very difficult. You had been married for 22 years, had daughters, and essentially destroyed your marriage.
- [40:36]
Mark Lore
Yep.
- [40:38]
Randy
What's your advice to everyone out there who's got a family? You said you got to be all in 100 hours a week. Do you really need 100 hours a week, or is your family more important than making money and achieving whatever you're trying to achieve?
- [40:51]
Mark Lore
That's a. That's. This guy could talk for a long time about this. I think you learn how to. And I did do this. If you're working 100 hours a week, all the hours you have left, you go put in your family. So you can't have hobbies, can't watch tv, can't do chores. Like, you try to, like, just have to, like, pay someone to help you with chores, even if you don't have the money to pay for it. That's how valuable, you know, those limited hours with your family are. So, you know, I definitely gave up everything other than work and. And family to. To do it. If you get to the point where you're eating in a muscle where, you know, you got rid of all hobbies, all tv, all chores, and you still don't have enough time for family, then maybe you got to figure out a different way. But I. I was able to, I mean, work 100 hours a week and still still have a decent amount of time for family, but it's not. It's not for everyone. I mean, you. It's a big commitment you gotta be prepared for. So definitely some pain and some sacrifice if you're gonna be a successful entrepreneur. People that say they'll find entrepreneurs out there that are doing it, not working 100 hours a week. And, yeah, that could. You can do it if you get lucky, if, you know, invent something or. But I think for most people, that's not the case.
- [42:10]
Randy
There's a saying when you're on your deathbed, no one ever says, I wish I'd worked more. They say, I wish I had spent more time with my kids and my family. Do you regret working all those hours and not missing important time with Your two daughters, who are a lot younger at the time.
- [42:28]
Mark Lore
No, I don't, I don't actually regret it. I wouldn't, wouldn't change anything. I think I was there for all the most important. I think if I would have missed anything important, I might regret it and feel that way. But I was there for all their important events and things. I was there to read them stories to bed every night. Like, I, I didn't do a lot of traveling. I was home most of the time and was very, like I said, I gave up everything else. So, I don't know, I mean, yeah, I, I, I would, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go back and change anything.
- [43:00]
Randy
All right, we're at the end of our show and I always conclude with a game I call fill in the blank to excellence. Are you ready to play?
- [43:05]
Mark Lore
Okay.
- [43:07]
Randy
The biggest lesson I've learned in my.
- [43:08]
Mark Lore
Life is treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Give more than you take.
- [43:13]
Randy
My number one professional goal is do.
- [43:15]
Mark Lore
Something great in the world. Make the world a better place.
- [43:18]
Randy
My number one personal goal is.
- [43:22]
Mark Lore
Be happy.
- [43:24]
Randy
My biggest regret in life is no regrets. My biggest fear is it's not something I focus on.
- [43:36]
Mark Lore
I don't have to think about that. No, I don't. Nothing, nothing, nothing. I fear, like biggest fear is probably dying before I'm ready by dying too soon.
- [43:46]
Randy
The best advice I've ever received is.
- [43:49]
Mark Lore
Say the same thing to always remember to give more than you take.
- [43:53]
Randy
If you could pick one trait that makes somebody successful, it would be one trait.
- [43:59]
Mark Lore
High eq.
- [44:00]
Randy
The one thing that's contributed more to my career than anything else is work ethic. The one thing I've dreamt about doing for a long time but haven't is.
- [44:10]
Mark Lore
The only thing that jumps to mind is top of my bucket list is going to Bhutan. So I'll say, yeah, if you could.
- [44:17]
Randy
Go back and give your 21 year old self one piece of advice, it.
- [44:20]
Mark Lore
Would be to be patient, be more patient and think long term. Think long term. As a youngster, I think be patient, learn and think long term as opposed to sort of thinking in the moment of where I got to be next year, in six months or in two years. But like take a long term view.
- [44:42]
Randy
If you were the President of the United States today, the first thing that.
- [44:46]
Mark Lore
You would do is I would set a vision for America, like America 2100, I think. I think we focused a little too short term.
- [44:58]
Randy
If you were on your DeathBed and had 60 seconds to live, what would be three things that you would tell your daughters as they're surrounding you right before you passed away.
- [45:12]
Mark Lore
I probably focus on. On values that I wanted to share with them, I think so. Something that I've told them when they were little and I've told them every year since, and they both recall this. And I say, you know, always believe in yourself. Try your best at anything you do, and remember to have fun. I'd probably tell them the same three things.
- [45:35]
Randy
The one question you wish I had asked you but didn't is.
- [45:40]
Mark Lore
You did a pretty good job. This. I can't think of anything.
- [45:44]
Randy
Are there any questions you want to ask me before we finish?
- [45:47]
Mark Lore
Is that your best pair of sneakers?
- [45:50]
Randy
No. I have some Louis Vuitton airs that are quite nice, but these are what? The dunk. These are one of my favorite pair.
- [46:02]
Mark Lore
Yeah, I think I have.
- [46:04]
Randy
So cool. 50 or 60 pair of low dunks. Dunks. Mostly dunks.
- [46:08]
Mark Lore
You have the Heinekens?
- [46:10]
Randy
I do have the Heinekens, but I haven't worn them yet. It's. My wife says, God, you. You have them all in the closet in these cases. Like, why don't you wear them? I said, I'm afraid. The PlayStations are great, too. Yeah, I've worn those twice. What's your favorite pair?
- [46:22]
Mark Lore
What? The Dunk.
- [46:22]
Randy
What? The Dunk.
- [46:23]
Mark Lore
Those are my favorites. I like the Heinekens a lot. I like the Serena Blank, the Ben and Jerry ones. What's the.
- [46:29]
Randy
Yeah, yeah, the Ben and Jerry one. Yeah, those I have, too, but I. They're ridiculous to wear. Yeah, they're absolutely. I, I, I have the furry ones as well that come in yellow, orange, and green. Yeah, I think they're Jerry Garcia. I don't know if they're Jerry Garcia. I think.
- [46:44]
Mark Lore
Okay.
- [46:45]
Randy
And they're ridiculous. I just bought them because I did look cool.
- [46:48]
Mark Lore
Yeah.
- [46:48]
Randy
But they're ridiculous. I can't imagine wearing these. Mark, this has been amazing. I admire you. You've achieved amazing success. Congratulations on all your success.
- [46:58]
Mark Lore
Thanks, Randy. Appreciate you having.
- [46:59]
Randy
I hope you get to know each other better.
- [47:01]
Mark Lore
Yeah, same here. Thank you for having me.
- [47:02]
Randy
Thank you. I appreciate it.
- [47:04]
Mark Lore
Yeah. Randy, man, I got to tell you, the amount of time you've put into preparing for this interview is really impressive, and I really appreciate it. I mean, the depth that you were able to go on. A lot of these. These areas. No one's ever gone before. And I know how much preparation meets you. It definitely shows, and I appreciate it. Thank you.
- [47:25]
Randy
Well, I appreciate that.
- [47:26]
Mark Lore
Thank. You, sam.