← In Search Of Excellence
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- [00:00]
Mark Lore
Most of the biggest opportunities and ways to move the ball forward lies in the probabilities that nobody else wants to touch. I was born with the entrepreneurial DNA.
- [00:10]
Randy Kaplan
Can you learn it if you weren't born with it?
- [00:12]
Mark Lore
I think you can be an entrepreneur without the straight DNA of it. But I do think, especially if you want to do it over and over again, I think you have to have the DNA. When I look at hiring now, I want to see someone have shown a demonstrable level of success in every job they've been in. And when they move, better be a really good reason. Those are the, those are the stars. People that jump, especially jump too quickly from a good company. I won't even interview them anymore.
- [00:56]
Randy Kaplan
Welcome to In Search of Excellence. My guest today is Mark Lore, the billionaire owner of the Minnesota Timberwolf serial entrepreneur. Sold Diapers.com to Amazon for $545 million and then Jet.com to Walmart for $3.3 billion. Mark, thanks for being here. Welcome to In Search of Excellence.
- [01:14]
Mark Lore
Thanks Randy. Great to be here.
- [01:16]
Randy Kaplan
I always start with our family and I want to go to your dad. When you were 17 years old, he drove to Bruce Springsteen's house and asked to go on a fishing trip. Tell us about security throwing him out, him still wanting to go on the trip and how that image influenced your future.
- [01:36]
Mark Lore
Wow. So you're jumping right, Jumping right in. Yeah. My, my mom was actually became a bodybuilder, never did anything in her life and was training Bruce Springsteen's then wife. My dad kept asking her to ask Bruce to go deep sea fishing once he heard that he liked fishing. And so my dad is one of these guys like he, he just told me and my brother we're going fishing with Bruce before he heard back. And he just had it in his head that we were going. And in that morning he still hadn't heard back after multiple times of follow through. So he's like, let's go to his house at 5:30 in the morning. And after, yeah, he was knocking on the door, it was dark out. My brother and I were like so excited.
- [02:15]
Randy Kaplan
He actually thought this was gonna happen.
- [02:17]
Mark Lore
Oh, definitely. Told all our friends, everybody. And then there's my dad, sure enough, getting carried out. He's on the shorter side and he says, I remember him just kicking his feet as he was being carried out to his car. And me and my brother like we're in shock, right? And he gets in the car, we're breathing heavy. Cause he's just been sort of manhandled and he gets in the front seat and we're like, dad, you okay? What's going. He's like, guys, doesn't seem like Bruce wants to go fishing. You guys still up for it? And he's like totally like calm nothing. And we're like, yeah, okay. Was it went fishing and didn't rattle him at all. It was almost like just part of an ordinary day, ordinary morning.
- [03:01]
Randy Kaplan
He was a dreamer.
- [03:02]
Mark Lore
He was a dreamer tinkerer.
- [03:04]
Randy Kaplan
He never really achieved his dreams, never really achieved financial success, but he had a great work ethic. So as you watched him from companies to companies, I know he had a company named after you and your brother. Tell us about watching throughout all those years, your dad really struggling to make it and not achieving his dream.
- [03:22]
Mark Lore
Yeah, I mean he had me. My mom and dad were 20, so when they had me, we lived on top of my grandparents house in Staten Island, New York. And he was selling vacuum cleaners early on, door to door. He was like more that door to door salesman, selling, always selling something, tattoos, vacuum cleaners, whatever, whatever he could find. He this is one of the computers, like in the early, I guess it was early 70s that he went to school to learn how to be a programmer. Computer engineer, they called them programmers back then.
- [03:53]
Randy Kaplan
What year was this?
- [03:54]
Mark Lore
This had to be early 70s, so between 71 and 75, like early 70s. Early, early, early early. So he learned how to be a programmer and he got a job, J.P. morgan. And he quickly realized that they realized that he wasn't actually that great of a programmer, but he was there long enough to friend this guy Greenberg. Greenberg was a very good programmer that worked for JP Morgan but always complained that he's not getting paid enough. So. So my dad, on the last day before he was going to get fired, came up with this brilliant idea of asking Greenberg if Greenberg would work for my dad. So he went up to Greenberg and he said, hey, how would you like to work for me and I'll pay you 50% more than you're making. And he said, Pete, what do you want me to do? He goes, I just want you to keep doing what you're doing, but you'd work for me and I'll pay you 50% more. He says, ha, ha ha, how does that work? He's like, how does it sound? He's like, well sure Pete. And so he went into his boss's office and said, hey Greenberg, he works for me now. Here's his new weekly rate. So he basically, this is like the early days of like computer consultants. You Know, like where people worked at banks doing programming, but they were on like weekly, hourly, daily rates. I don't, I don't remember. But they couldn't afford to lose Greenberg so they said yes. That was his first client, I guess. You know, I remember Greenberg was like a, I thought he was like some sort of rock star or something because like his name would come up his phone, the phone rang and it was Greenberg. Everybody had a. Not what they're doing. You know, it was like our entire life was like in the hands of this guy Greenberg. And that was the first one. He was like an agent basically. My dad was, was, was an agent for computer programmers and engineers at the time. And he, that's, he started this Chad Mark Systems, which is my brother's Chad and I'm Mark. He started. And yeah, he, he just started getting more of these computer consultants. Part of his, his company. That's how he, he built a business.
- [05:45]
Mentor/Coach (unnamed)
I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've need to do to reach the next level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google, lift and Seagate. And I also co founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey and at this stage in my life, I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did in my own journey. I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others. I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions and if you're a good fit, my team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video.
- [06:38]
Randy Kaplan
Her mom, Chiaro, as you mentioned, was a trainer. She weighed 110 pounds but could squat 320 pounds. So what, what did that look like? She must have been training every day because that's when I think about squatting. 320 pounds, weighing 110 pounds. I wonder how's that even possible?
- [06:56]
Mark Lore
Yeah, my mom was incredibly strong and everybody in the gym would be looking at her and couldn't, couldn't believe it.
- [07:01]
Randy Kaplan
You know, she, she'd go to the gym daily.
- [07:03]
Mark Lore
She would go every day. Yep. But keep in mind, you know, she didn't play any sports in high school. She didn't finish graduating high school. So she met my dad when she was 16, got married and had me when she was 20. Right. So. And then had three kids and didn't start doing anything, working out wise or anything until she was, I think, 30. She said, I can't run. I'm only going to walk because I don't, don't feel comfortable running. And she used to go to the gym every day and walk on the treadmill. And then one day, I remember this, she came home and she goes, you guys aren't going to believe this. I actually tried running on the treadmill and I was able to do it. Like, that's great, mom. Like now you can, you can run, run, run. You're going to get in really good shape. And then from that day on, she just started running. Next thing you know, she's running like five miles a day on the treadmill. And then somebody introduced her to lifting. She started lifting. She got really into it. And then like a few years later, when I was 16, she's entering like bodybuilding competitions. And it's like, you know, I'm telling my friends in high school, I'm like, I'm going to my mom's bodybuilding contest. You know, like, what? Because most moms were like, at that point, moms were, you know, in their mid-40s, late-40s, even 50, you know, and here's my mom, you know, 36 years old when I was 16, like, still like bodybuilding. So it was pretty cool watching her do that and more. Just watching it go from nothing to that in a very short period of time was very inspiring.
- [08:26]
Randy Kaplan
We're all a product of the home in which we grew up. And a lot of that is how our parents get along with one another. Right. Some of my friends have amazing parents. It's different. Some of us didn't really. My parents didn't get along. Divorce, you know, had a big toll on me. You grew up in a tumultuous household as well, screaming matches and drug use as well. Do you want to talk about some of that and how that influenced you and exactly what the drug use was?
- [08:54]
Mark Lore
Yeah, I mean, I would say the hardest part was the unpredictability. I think if you, if you've said, you know, you experienced that as well, where you just didn't know whether it was going to be explosive day or a calm day. And there was really no rhyme or reason. So I think you get really in tune to knowing how to read people because as a little kid, you're trying to read the room, read my mom, read my dad. Is he going to blow up today or is he not? Is it going to become what can I do? So you grow up kind of a little bit with a pleasing mentality, like try and not cause problems. You know, always thinking about my mom and wanting to make sure she, you know, wasn't upset and things. So I think probably where I got a lot of empathy from and being able, like the EQ part of, of my DNA comes from, from that childhood. But at the same time, I think if I just saw that, I think I would have been not in the place I'm in, but I spent a lot of time with my mom's parents who were the opposite.
- [09:53]
Randy Kaplan
You have the entrepreneurial gene. You've been thinking about it since you were a little kid. I remember when I was growing up and single mom, we lived in a small apartment and you'd see people around you and I kept saying, you know, where do all these people have money from? Because you drive by these homes. And I didn't really know what it meant back then, but I thought, you know, one day I'd like to live better than this. At four years old, you mentioned your grandmother, big Nan, that you wanted to own a farm. Tell us about that.
- [10:24]
Mark Lore
Yeah, so, yeah, I spent a lot of time with my. My mom's parents were also very young, so they were. Had my mom when they were 20. So they are, you know, really the age of some of my parents friends. So I spent a lot of time with them. They were the most gentle, kind, loving, not volatile, steady, emotionally consistent, like the absolute opposite of my household. So I got to see sort of both sides. And I definitely thought I choose this, you know, as, as a way, as a way I wanted to be. But yeah, when I was four years old, my school teacher asked us like in crayon to sort of draw what we wanted to be when we grow up. And then I feel like the teacher wrote it, you know, but. But I said it, you know, I want to be a farmer and gruesome stuff growing up. And I brought it home to my grandmother and she saw it and she said, you want to be a farmer? No, no, no, you're too smart to be a farmer. You want to be a doctor or a Lawyer. And meanwhile, nobody had ever gone to college. No professionals in my family to be seen anywhere. And I'm like, no, no, I want to be a farmer. And she asked, why do you want to be a farmer? And I said, because they grow stuff from nothing. And I remember as a kid being fascinated with the idea that you could put a seed in the ground and then have created something that you can eat and live on. I just found that fascinating as a little kid.
- [11:47]
Randy Kaplan
Did you plant those seeds when we were maybe in kindergarten or first grade, we put a seed in a little plant and you'd water the plant, you'd see it's growing route.
- [11:54]
Mark Lore
Yes, absolutely. Yes.
- [11:57]
Randy Kaplan
That was very cool to see at a young age.
- [12:01]
Mark Lore
I was, I was born like with the entrepreneurial DNA.
- [12:05]
Randy Kaplan
Can you learn it if you weren't born with it? And are people who are born with it more successful entrepreneurs than those not?
- [12:12]
Mark Lore
I think those born with it, I think are more successful. Yes. I think you can be an entrepreneur without the straight DNA of it. But I do think, especially if you want to do it over and over again, I think you have to have the DNA, like the ability to work extremely hard for something that has a low probability of success. I think that defines an entrepreneur. If you're starting a company and it has a high degree of success, that's not really entrepreneurship. It's low probability, big outcome, and you work incredibly hard, 100 hours a week, and you can lose everything and have nothing to show for it. That's entrepreneurship.
- [12:47]
Randy Kaplan
You're listening to part one of my incredible interview with Mark Lori, one of the great serial entrepreneurs of our day, who has had multiple exits of many billions of dollars and raised many billions of dollars. And he's also the owner of the Minnesota Timberwolves basketball team. Be sure to tune in next week for part two of my incredible interview with Mark. When I was younger, I was bullied, I stuttered, I didn't have a lot of friends. And I would sit in the middle of these assemblies by myself, pretending like it didn't bother me hurting inside. I had GI Joe dolls or figures, not dolls. And I played with my Legos. You went through something similar. So tell us about how you dealt with periods of difficulty being alone. And then what's your advice to all the parents out there whose kids are in the same situation?
- [13:31]
Mark Lore
Yeah, I mean, I like you. I spent a lot of time, I remember, just by myself, I would play Legos like you play Legos, but also similarly, the little green army men. So we have those Gi Joe but.
- [13:44]
Randy Kaplan
Hundreds of little ones, hundreds of little.
- [13:45]
Mark Lore
Ones and sort of like just creatively thinking about how to set them up and how to play with them, build things. I think being left alone and being forced to be creative is incredibly valuable skill. To have one to just be able to self soothe. I also counted. So that was my soothing mechanism. When things would get volatile in the house, I would just kind of go in the corner and just count. This is as a very little kid. And I would count and the number would just keep going. I would be like 10,000, 183, 10,184 and just keep counting until the numbers got big. But it got me very fluent in numbers. And then as I got a little older, I started doing the same thing but doing multiplication, division and other kinds of like math stuff. I attribute probably that to sort of why I tend to gravitate toward math and numbers now to this day. But to the parents out there, you know, I just noticed that a lot of parents now are a little bit too protective of their kids. I mean certainly I believe in being protective. When their safety, like the actual physical safety is in danger, then be very protective. But they need to learn how to fail and be resilient and not, you know, if they forget their homework, just like run and get it and bring it to them because they're going to be upset not having it. It's like you forgot it. You know, let them, let them feel the. What it feels like to fail or do something wrong. I think it's really important. I failed so much as a kid because my parents weren't around, you know, and I was by myself a lot and just failed at things all the time. And I was very comfortable failing. Even in school. I didn't get good grades at all. I didn't study, I didn't, I didn't think about it being important. I was always daydreaming, thinking, connecting dots, being creative in my head, teachers talking and telling us what's going to be on the exam. And I'm thinking about how this could be used in some other way, in some other business. I was always thinking and thinking, never reading. I never, I still to this day haven't read like a novel or a book because I was always thinking. And I think as a kid I didn't get read to and I didn't. So I didn't like reading for that reading like books and so I avoided books. If it's a textbook and I'm really learning something, I could open it and read it very slowly and, and think and read a page and think. But any sort of. I've never read a book like for just pleasure, I guess. I'm always, if I tried, I've tried, read a few pages and then I start thinking and I much rather think. So I spend a lot of time every day just thinking, connecting dots.
- [16:15]
Randy Kaplan
I think as a parent too, I have 23 year old twins and then I have a five year old. And my parenting style, of course it depends on your wife, right. Who's in charge? You know, I go along with 95% of her plan. I've been married to my wife Madison, coming out about 11 years. She's the most amazing woman in the world and she is definitely different than how I was as a first time parent 23 years ago where it's okay, she got a fall, okay, let her fall. You know, catch them before they fall, they're going to scrape their knee and she's different. Like you said, she, if your kid falls, your kid falls, scrape your knee, scrape your knee. Shouldn't be there for every little thing. Try to save your kids the homework like you said. Same exact thing. Don't get your homework done. Yeah, you come up, you know, with a 5 out of 10, you get the worksheet back and say, hey Carter, what's up with this? You know, and it just, it just makes them more motivated to get it right. All kids want to please their parents, obviously and you know, they want to do their best. If you have the right kind of parents motivating your kids to do their best.
- [17:16]
Mark Lore
Yeah. And also as an entrepreneur, you do fail a lot. So you have to be comfortable with failure. You have to be able to learn from it very quickly and not dwell on it. So I think as an entrepreneur, one of the greatest skills to have is the ability to not think about anything that's gone wrong today or in the past and not worry about anything that might happen in the future is to like be in the now and do everything you can and put all your energy into making today the most productive day possible.
- [17:48]
Randy Kaplan
But you do think back to the mistakes you made and you don't want to make the same mistake twice as you.
- [17:52]
Mark Lore
You catalog them, but you don't think about them. You just take the lesson, catalog it and then that's it. So yeah, so you don't want to make the same mistake again. But I think the biggest issue I see even in the workforce as I hire people in entrepreneurial startups is especially ones that have gone to very good schools and done very well in school that they have a really hard time engaging in any activity that has, you know, a decent probability of failure. This is a naturally gravitating look for no, but how can I make this so it's, it's, it's going to not fail and it's 95%. And that's where you miss out on a lot of opportunities. Because most of the biggest opportunities and ways to move the ball forward lies in the probabilities that nobody else wants to touch. You know, certainly less than 50. 50.
- [18:40]
Randy Kaplan
Right. And all the students today from the best schools, even not the best schools, want to go to the hot companies. Right. I'm going to work in AI. I want these jobs. And like you said, I think there's more opportunity if you're a young go getter meritocracy to go into something that isn't working can make more of an impact. And even if the company doesn't work, the experience is worth more than the monetary gain. And I think in our day and age, people, the young students today, even the young professionals, they don't think about it that way.
- [19:05]
Mark Lore
No, it's true. They're not as focused on learning and it's more about wanting consistent movement and not just being happy and content, just learning. I think as long as you're learning early in your career, there's nothing better that you could be doing.
- [19:23]
Mentor/Coach (unnamed)
I hope you're enjoying this video so far, but before we jump back in, I want to know if you've ever thought about what you need to do to reach the next level of success in your life. Over the last 25 years, I've been an advisor to more than 50 companies. I've invested nearly 100, including Google, lift and Seagate. And I also co founded a company that today is worth more than $15 billion. I've been incredibly blessed in my journey and at this stage in my life. I want to give back. I want to share the lessons I've learned so you can reach incredible success way faster than I did in my own journey. I've learned that having the right mentor is a massive advantage to achieving our goals. I'm hugely passionate about mentoring others and I'm looking for a few hungry entrepreneurs who are excited to take action on their journey to incredible future success. So if that's you, I've got an opportunity. In the description of this video, there's a link where you can apply to work with me. All you need to do is answer a few simple questions.
- [20:11]
Randy Kaplan
And if you're a good fit.
- [20:12]
Mentor/Coach (unnamed)
My team will reach out so we can build a game plan together. All right, now let's get back to the video.
- [20:19]
Randy Kaplan
Do you believe in the saying you learn in your 20s and you earn in your 30s?
- [20:24]
Mark Lore
I've heard that before. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, absolutely. Learn. I think the most important thing you can do when you come out of school and looking where to work is who you're going to work for, which didn't even come on my radar. If I'm thinking about, you know, when I graduated, it was, you know, how much money is it, what's the company, what's the job? Right. Who you're working for wasn't even in the top three. I do think that's probably the most important thing. And I got very lucky with who I worked for because that's where you learn and you're most impressionable when you graduate college. That first boss is very important. And I got very lucky with multiple bosses in my career. And I think if you get with the right person early in your career to teach you about leadership and values, work ethic, I mean, that is. Those lessons last a lifetime.
- [21:15]
Randy Kaplan
In today's day and age, I see job hopping being a huge thing. Right. You've got a boss, maybe an asshole. They're hard to work with. You don't like your boss. I mean, work is work. Mark Cuban was on my show and he said, if you can't survive a difficult boss, you're not going to make it in the real world. You agree with that?
- [21:33]
Mark Lore
Well, this is where, I mean, I would be a little bit more discerning up front as to who you're going to work for and do, do due diligence on who you're going to work for and make sure it's a good fit. I think some of these situations happen because they don't ask who they're working for, don't care, they're pay me. It's a good company, and, and, and that's it. But let's assume you do get in a situation where the boss isn't a great boss. I think you just learn how to suck it up and, and you know, put your head down and, you know, be the one to prove to the boss that you're worthy of a promotion. And when I look at in hiring now, I've become somewhat of a resume snob because. And I don't mean snob meaning like, what school did you go to? I mean, I want to see someone have shown a demonstrable level of success in every job they've been in. And when they move, it better be a really good reason. Like a job too good to turn down an opportunity too good to turn down. I found that those people that have those types of resumes, those are the, those are the stars. People that jump, especially jump too quickly from a good company. I won't even interview them anymore. Whereas before I used to interview a lot of people that I probably shouldn't have. And I got what I call honey potted, where you just have a good hour discussion. You like the person, they say all the right things, you hire them and then you regret it after. So I don't even go down and want to interview somebody. Even if somebody recommends somebody and says no, I've worked with this person. If that resume, they've not shown a demonstrable of success and been at a company's long enough to prove success, I won't, I won't even interview them anymore. And it's proven that has been a, has caused a seismic shift in, in the talent level. The people brought into, into my company you mentioned.
- [23:21]
Randy Kaplan
It's so important the name, the, not the name of the person, but who you're going to work for. And it kind of works both ways. When I made money, this woman who had been out of school for a year or two worked for Morgan Stanley. It's like you're the first one to touch Randy Kaplan. So now Randy's mine. Right. And it just wasn't working. And so I had to go above her head. Obviously, if I wanted to work with Morgan Stanley, which I did want to work with him. And I did, I said, hey, she should not be on the account because I, I raised this with her. And it wasn't a good conversation. I was like, whoa, that is not how it should go. Right. I'm the client. I should be able to pick who I want to pick. And I think a lot of founders, Mark, don't get it that the person at the VC firm is your captain and your coach and you could get stuck with the wrong person at a VC firm. Not all firms are created equal. I mean all people at Goldman Sachs. I have a lot of mentees and clients who want to work at Goldman Sachs and I'll just take whatever job I can get there. Well, there's great people at Goldman Sachs to work for and there's horrible people at Goldman Sachs to work for.
- [24:34]
Mark Lore
Yeah.
- [24:34]
Randy Kaplan
So how do entrepreneurs who are so desperate for funding they just want it? How are they in a position how can they get the confidence to say, who am I going to work for?
- [24:43]
Mark Lore
Well, work with. I should say no. As someone who has always struggled to raise money and every company and every round I've done, I think it's 15 rounds of venture capital and each round is probably average over a hundred pitches. So I'm probably 2,000 pitches in. It's always been so hard for me and I've never, I can't remember a situation where I was had multiple people to pick from where I can say, you know what? I like you better. I'll take money from you, and I'm going to say no to you. I've never been in that position maybe because I've always pushed the envelope on, you know, wanting to. To push the size of the rounds and always been a little bit outside the box. But I've. So I'm not the right person to answer ask because I've never been in that situation. But if I was in a situation where I could pick, yeah, I think it would be. It would be really meaningful. Like, I got very lucky. The VCs that are in my company wonder now were in. Most of them were in my last two companies and they're the best. And I feel very fortunate and lucky. Had they been different, you know, probably wouldn't be here today.
- [25:48]
Randy Kaplan
So let's step back again. I want to go Back to your 11 years old.
- [25:51]
Mark Lore
Yeah.
- [25:52]
Randy Kaplan
You somehow came up with this crazy idea that you're going to flip a coin ten times if it landed on heads or tails. Ten in a row. You were going to get a Reggie Jackson baseball card. Now, you and I are the same age. I'm 56. You're. You're 56?
- [26:07]
Mark Lore
54.
- [26:07]
Randy Kaplan
54. Okay. Well, we're near the same age. Reggie Jackson was probably the most famous baseball player as a Yankees fan. As a Yankees fan. And so I grew up a Tigers fan, but I still loved Reggie Jackson, except when they were playing the Tigers. Tell us what happened to that card and what lessons you learned and took from that experience that have helped you in your career.
- [26:27]
Mark Lore
Well, just to set up, I remember it like it was yesterday. It was in the, in, in the bathroom in school. I had to be around 10 years old. I was very good at flipping cards. You'd flip them and try to land all on heads. I was under the impression that it was we're going to each flip 10 cards and whoever got more heads, I was flipping and it was heads, heads, heads, heads, heads, heads, tail, heads. It's like tail. You Lose. I'm like, no, no, you didn't go yet. It's like, no, you had to get all 10 in a row. Otherwise I went. I'm like, that's not what we said. But he took the card. He was a bully, took the card and then that was it. And I went to the teacher and said, hey, you know, we did this thing. And she's like, I don't know. I'm not going to get involved. And I still remember that to this day. That it was. And why I. I despise bullies. I think. So, yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was my first experience of, of dealing with a bully, basically. And he was much bigger than me and older and, you know, and I still remember it. And I, I don't like bullies to this day.
- [27:28]
Randy Kaplan
Bullying when we were younger was, was a different kind of a thing. You know, it's okay, don't do that today. You get kicked out of school. And it's very interesting.
- [27:34]
Mark Lore
Oh, no, back then it was very different.
- [27:36]
Randy Kaplan
Yeah. Someone's making fun of Randy, calling me Randy, you know, don't do that. And I come home crying every day. It happened the next day at school.
- [27:45]
Mark Lore
There was, I mean. Yeah, very different. It was very different.
- [27:49]
Randy Kaplan
You know, some ungodly percentage of mass shooters were bullied. I think the number is 85, 90%.
- [27:56]
Mark Lore
Wow.
- [27:56]
Randy Kaplan
Which doesn't surprise you when you really think about it.
- [27:59]
Mark Lore
Yeah, there's nothing worse than being bullied.
- [28:01]
Randy Kaplan
Let's go to seventh grade. I think when you're a little different than most, you're reading books that people are not reading. Seventh grade, you're reading books on options and derivatives, which a lot of people don't read until they graduate college and they're in business school. And so how did that come about? And how would you find a book on options or derivatives when you're 12 years old?
- [28:27]
Mark Lore
So I know. So I said before, I don't read novels, but I did like reading like textbooks and like option derivative books. I was fascinated with. Yeah, we, we would even maybe go on vacation and I would like, try to find the bookstore and go in there and see. And they would sell in bookstores, they would sell like books on derivatives. Options derivatives. I would always get a book and just read it and, and read it very closely. Like one page. Think about it. Try some problems. Flip a page. I really like, at a young age, mastered options trading and you know, 13 years old. And I was just obsessed with.
- [29:00]
Randy Kaplan
Back then, you couldn't trade. There was no couldn't go on Fidelity. No. Robin Hood. So we're actually trading for an account.
- [29:06]
Mark Lore
It was all more all in my head. When I got a little older, like in high school, I got my dad to open up an account where you could sell covered calls, which is the most basic form of option trading. But that was also super fun.
- [29:19]
Randy Kaplan
You explain everyone what a covered call is.
- [29:21]
Mark Lore
Covered call is when you buy a stock. Let's say you buy a share of stock at $100 a share. You can sell somebody the ability to buy your stock at let's say $110. At some point in the future they would pay you, let's say a dollar for that. Right. So if the stock never gets to 110, you just keep the dollar. So you own the stock at 100, you keep the dollar. It never gets to 110. If it gets above 110, you're forced to sell it at 110 and you still keep the dollar. So the worst case is you have to sell the stock at 111. So I thought I was. As a kid, I was always fascinated by this. I'm like, this is amazing because I would love to sell it at 110. So if it gets there, fine, but if it doesn't, I keep the dollar. And that was sort of like the, the original like excitement around, around options as a kid in high school. And yeah, we do that, but nothing risky in options at that age. Until I started a hedge fund in college and, and then did more the risky options derivatives and stuff.
- [30:22]
Randy Kaplan
I grew up in Detroit. Windsor, Canada. Right across the border. We drive through the tunnel and back then you couldn't get these fake IDs which all the kids do now in. They're made in China. The barcode works.
- [30:35]
Mark Lore
Right?
- [30:36]
Randy Kaplan
Right.
- [30:36]
Mark Lore
I've seen them.
- [30:37]
Randy Kaplan
Someone. Someone. I just.
- [30:38]
Mark Lore
Very impressive.
- [30:39]
Randy Kaplan
I, I just, I, I just heard Mark from one of my kids friends that it passed TSA last year. One of the cars that they made, which is just, just remarkable. We were using colored pencils back in the day. And we get someone. It was ridiculous. And we'd go to Windsor, which is the drinking age was 19. It's like, okay, you know, we had a beer or so and you know you hate beer, but you want to be cool and, and you know, drink that, drink that beer. The one place you cannot use a fake ID is Las Vegas in a casino. It's, it's a bad. And, and I took my son. We did a podcast with Sugar. Sean o'. Malley.
- [31:17]
Mark Lore
Yeah.
- [31:17]
Randy Kaplan
And he was the Champ. And he said, hey, I'm having this party, and I forget what nightclub it was. And so, yeah, come. You know, we come with this posse. You know, Charlie's excited. He's 19 years old, and he's got the fake ID and we got there around midnight. And I said, hey, this is fake. Normally they would take the ID and you get on a restricted list, and you couldn't come back to the casino for some amount of time. Yeah, that's how strict it is. But on the flip side, my wife, who's a beautiful woman, was going to Vegas 20, 22 years ago, 18 years old, no one checking her ID. So I think there's a little, you know, inequity going on there. Tell us about what you were doing in Atlantic City casinos and where you were buying these suits from.
- [32:02]
Mark Lore
Well, let me also tell you about the ID since you asked about ID because me and my friend spent an entire summer deconstructing all the elements of a license into a big board. And it was basically the exact size that if you put your head in front of the white part and took a picture and then cut the picture out, it would be the exact size of a license. And that took an entire summer. It was so hard to make, especially, like, the different seals and things. But we had the ability then. Yeah, you just take a picture and anybody could have a license. We just changed. Change the name on the board with the different letters and date of birth, and take a picture.
- [32:47]
Randy Kaplan
You were counting cards, which is great for you, bad for the casinos. How much money did you make doing that before you got booted?
- [32:57]
Mark Lore
I don't know if I want to. How much? I want to talk about this. A lot of money. A lot of money.
- [33:04]
Randy Kaplan
Statute of limitations has run out.
- [33:06]
Mark Lore
A lot of money. A lot of money.
- [33:09]
Randy Kaplan
Let's talk about. Well, I'll tell you a funny thing about fake id. So I take my kids away on one on one trips every year. For all the parents out there who want to do something amazing, one of the best things I've done as a dad, especially as your kids get teenage years, where you're competing for their time is take your kids on a one on one trip. It's the best thing I've ever done. You're not competing with their friends as much. You're not competing with their phone as much, although they're. They're on their phone. So I took my twin girls to Cabo, and how old they were? 16.
- [33:41]
Mark Lore
Okay.
- [33:42]
Randy Kaplan
And we're going to Chilano Bay, and we're staying at Chilean Bay, Discovery property. Mike Melden was on my show. If you haven't listened to that show, it's a great show. And I'm in first class and I hear some guy in front of me talking about Calvin Harris is playing at this hotel, opening the hotel. And I said, oh, you know Calvin's playing. He said, oh yeah. And my wife, one of her best friends had dated Calvin, okay? And so, and I knew his manager because for our bachelorette and bachelor party we did a night solo in Vegas, my wife and I. And then last night we were in Calvin's DJ booth for the night. So I knew Calvin's manager, Mark Gillespie, who's a great guy. And so I call Mark and I say, hey Mark, I'm with my kids. You know, we'd like to go to this. He said, no, no, no, this is a hotel thing. The government's going to be there, the minister, whatever of Cabo's going to be there. It's 21. They're strict, can't do it. I said, okay. Huh, interesting. So we're in the SUV going to Chileno Bay and the driver's listening to me. Basically I say, hey Mark, you gotta do this for me. This has to happen. And so the driver, I hang up the phone and said, hey, what's going on? What do you need? I said, well, I need fake IDs for these kids to get into Kellen Harris. He said, okay, let me work on it and I'll call you back. So he calls me back at 3:30 and he says I can pick you up but you have to be at the police station by 5. He was going to get actual Mexican driver's license to get fake IDs so we could go to Calvin Harris. I'm thinking there's no way that is happening. But I did figure out a way to get them and they were in the Calvin Harris DJ booth. We were hanging out with them for amazing. For the night. Resourcefulness definitely pays. Let's talk about odd jobs we all have in school and, and we can talk about things moving on later. But I want to talk about picking weeds and doing manual labor. I feel like in today's society so many kids don't want to do that, right? I knock door to door. I wanted money. Hey, can I pick weeds? I'd some people would say sure. They'd see this 14, 15 year old kid. I'd sit there in the baking sun. I'd pull weeds, blisters on my fingers. Yep, you had a lot of those odd jobs too. So in today's society, I feel like people don't want those jobs. Yeah, they don't want them when they're younger and they don't want them as they grow up, even in the college years. What's your advice to all those people who look down upon the odd jobs? Should they take them? And is the experience better than getting some other job in a store or somewhere else?
- [36:30]
Mark Lore
I mean, just like you, same thing. Weeds, shoveling snow, car wash, newspaper, recycling, baseball. I mean, I, I basically would work as hard as people would allow me to work, you know, and I do think that's great training if you want to be an entrepreneur because, you know, you have to be prepared for 100 hour weeks intense over many, many years. So I think it's great training ground. I think if you're not willing to do that sort of hard work, it's going to be, you're going to, you're going to fold, I think as you get older. I don't think this idea that, oh, no, but that's not, that's manual. And this is, I'm using my brain. Entrepreneurship's more closely aligned to manual labor than it is to some sort of cerebral thing. I mean, it is tough. You're, you're. Unless you're just sitting in a closet, you know, coding or something. But if you're in a business that has like a physical product or service or things, especially the service service, forget it. You're running around like crazy. I mean, working harder than pulling weeds, especially in the early days. And if it's a product, you're on the, constantly on the move doing stuff. So I think it's, yeah, I think it's great training. It's just like anything. And if you were going to learn like a martial art or something, right? I mean, before you start going in into competitions, you're doing the basic technique and form and it's boring, it's hard. Right? It's like a little bit of that. It's like you, you're building the foundational capabilities I think as a kid and what it means to work hard.
- [37:57]
Randy Kaplan
I do a lot of ment. I do a lot of paid coaching now as well, which I just, I love doing. It's, it's fun and fulfilling for me. And one of the things that people just don't get today is they don't want to do what I call the work. And if people saw the work I do every day, you know. Oh. RANDY AKAMAI CO FOUNDER oh, look at These, all these great investments that he did. And by the way, I talk more about my failures than the wins because I do think we learn more from our fellers and the wins. But what I tell people, man, you know, 95 of my day is work. It's not exciting, it's boring. And by the way, they don't want to do the work that I'm doing. You know, they do 30 minutes. Oh, gosh, you know, this is really boring. Give me something else like. No, that's not, that's not how it happens.
- [38:40]
Mark Lore
Yeah, just like a holiday. This thing with you right now, 90 minutes of the week. This is, this, this is the easiest part of my week because just like you, most of the week you're doing, doing the grind, right? I remember@diapers.com like literally going to the wholesale clubs and having to buy thousands of boxes of diapers, physically carry them to the checkout, check them out, put them on the truck, bring them home, wrap them up, ship them. I mean, that was a lot of weed picking.
- [39:09]
Randy Kaplan
Let's get into some of the details on this because I just want to share with people. Procter and Gamble would not sell to you. So, so your parents would go into Costco in these clubs with an 18 wheeler in the parking lot and you would basically be buying them at Costco, which is incredible story. Resourcefulness rules a day. As an entrepreneur, you have to do it. But that's, that's an amazing story for people, I think. Where did you rent the 18 wheeler to put all the diapers?
- [39:36]
Mark Lore
Well, it didn't start with that. First it started car, then van, then truck. And then we had to take them all through checkout. So we couldn't, you know, buy pallets and things like that. And we had to take them all through checkout. You had to pay with credit card and go through the receipt. And it was just brutal. We realized that the manager wanted us to keep some diapers there. And the deal was, if you leave me some diapers, I will use the forklift and put pallets on a truck for you. Then we're like, yes, we can. You know, so then that's where we, we rented a 18 wheeler and we didn't drive, but we had somebody, you know, come and then they put it on the truck. And that was a big breakthrough. We were clearing out five, six clubs, like a week, maybe even more than that at that time. And it was like untenable. We couldn't keep buying diapers at, you know, one price and then selling them for a Loss online because we were selling them for a lower price. Or actually we sell them for the same price that we paid in the club, but obviously had all the shipping and fulfillment and all those other costs we're losing money on. Every box of diapers were sold, and that was only sustainable for so long.
- [40:42]
Randy Kaplan
Right. Let's talk about the concept of loss leaders, and I think that's what you're getting to. You're losing money on the diapers, but you're trying to sell moms different products with higher margins. At Costco, for example, for a dollar fifty, you got a hot dog and a drink, and they sell 130 million dogs a year. And it's a loss leader because the average ticket there, they don't tell you exactly what it is. 100 to $120 is loss leader a good strategy for company that wants to succeed and grow in the future?
- [41:14]
Mark Lore
I think it can be if done right, if it's strategic. So the thinking was, when we first learned we didn't know anything about retail, we were asking why diapers weren't sold online. And everyone told us, well, because, you know, it's expensive to ship, they're heavy, and plus, they're a loss leader in the store, so you can't make money online. And I was like, okay, well, why are they a loss leader in the store? Why don't the stores make money on them? Oh, because they drive parents, new parents into the store to get their diapers. And when they come in every month to get their diapers, they wind up buying everything else. And so even though it's a lost leader for them, it still makes sense. I said, huh? And how many products can they buy in the store? Like, wow, the biggest, you know, stores like a Walmart that could be a hundred thousand products. I was like, huh? But online, there's millions or tens of millions or hundreds of millions. So wouldn't that mean you can lose more money on the diapers online because you have more products to upsell? And everybody was always, I remember just asking that question, because when you start and come up with an idea, it's like a piece of clay and you want to mold it. And I always tell people, just tell everyone your idea and just listen to what they say. And when you get to a place where the answers that you're getting back aren't compelling, you know, you might have something. And I remember this. We got to this point where I was just telling everyone, friends, family, everyone, people in the industry, people that know retail, people that know diaper market, just asking everyone, and nobody had an answer to it. They were just like, no, you're not going to make money. Like, it was like, but why? If there's, you know, 100 times as many products online and the stores could lose money, why can't we lose more money? And I kept doing it over and over and over and over, finally realized, no, this is right. Like this, this. We can make this work. We can lose more money on diapers than the stores do, and we can upsell more products online. Higher margin. So that was like the original hypothesis that. That proved to play out.
- [43:06]
Randy Kaplan
We'll talk about this, hell, in a few minutes. But I want to go back. You have an acuity for numbers. You're called the human calculator by your classmates. And I want to talk about a dinner you had with Sonia. And I'm gonna butcher her last name, Gerardo. And then I'm going to ask you, what day of the week is it? November 22, year 2032.
- [43:30]
Mark Lore
2032?
- [43:31]
Randy Kaplan
Yes.
- [43:32]
Mark Lore
You're just gonna pull this out right here?
- [43:34]
Randy Kaplan
Right here.
- [43:35]
Mark Lore
That's on. On the spot.
- [43:37]
Randy Kaplan
Huh? Right there.
- [43:39]
Mark Lore
That would be what. What they said.
- [43:41]
Randy Kaplan
November 22nd.
- [43:42]
Mark Lore
I think it'll be a Monday. 2032.
- [43:45]
Randy Kaplan
So tell us about the dinner. And we're this incredible, unique.
- [43:48]
Mark Lore
Can we see if it's a Monday?
- [43:49]
Randy Kaplan
Yeah. Okay, we're gonna wait for the Monday.
- [43:51]
Mark Lore
All right.
- [43:51]
Randy Kaplan
We're gonna cut this part of the podcast. That's insane.
- [43:54]
Mark Lore
It's a Monday.
- [43:55]
Randy Kaplan
It's November 22nd. Yeah, it's a Monday.
- [43:58]
Mark Lore
Say, that was under a lot of pressure. That was under a lot of pressure.
- [44:07]
Randy Kaplan
What is going on?
- [44:08]
Mark Lore
That's crazy.
- [44:10]
Randy Kaplan
Okay, so tell us about the. Tell us about the dinner with Sonia. And then where did this insane skill come from?
- [44:16]
Mark Lore
Like I said, I started as a. As a self soothing mechanism to just count and do multiplication. I used to be able to do crazy multiplication division things in my head. And. And then I just realized that there's a. There's. There is a formula that's quite a long formula on how to calculate the day of the week for any day in history. And I learned that formula and then sort of did it enough times that it sort of stuck. So now when I hear numbers, like when you tell me the dates, I don't really run through the full calculation. I sort of hear it. And if I just give myself like a second, it'll do the calculation and spit out the day. So it's. It's just, it's. I. I can't explain it. It's just something that is, I don't know, just.
- [45:03]
Randy Kaplan
You mentioned you were an average student and then low average. Well, let's, let's talk about the eight out of a hundred you got on a biology test in school. So how important is failure and embarrassment as a motivator to being better and doing better?
- [45:22]
Mark Lore
It could be. It could be a pretty good motivator. It wasn't that case for me because it was very embarrassing. The teacher, this is crazy back then, but the teacher would call out the highest grade and the lowest grade, like by name.
- [45:36]
Randy Kaplan
So not cool.
- [45:36]
Mark Lore
It's so not cool. I remember. And you do it with a lot of, like with a smirk, you know, and the lowest grade with an 8, you know, it's Mark Laurie. That's like, everyone's laughing. This is like, it's amazing that people were laugh, you know, would laugh, you know, when they, when they named. Especially with such a low score. And I did find it very embarrassing and it was a, an incredible motivator because the next test I got the highest score and so I was not, I was not going to be embarrassed, even though I was quite comfortable failing and not getting the best grades. I didn't even know you needed to apply to college until junior in high school. I thought you just picked the school you want to go to and you go. That's. So I was never like in the whole academic realm, I guess. You know, my parents didn't know either.
- [46:30]
Randy Kaplan
One of the goals of this show is to make the impossible possible. And that's also true of my coaching and my mentoring that I do. You were fascinated by magicians and mentalists when you were younger. So tell us about where that came from and how that motivate you. And then tell us about the summer league and Nathan Knight.
- [46:50]
Mark Lore
Okay. So yeah, I've always been fascinated with, with magic similar to being entrepreneurship in my DNA. Like the love for magic I was kind of born with because as a, as a little kid, all I wanted during any birthday was one of those magicians to come. I wanted magician set for Christmas. Like I, I was just loved it. I was fascinated by the idea that making the impossible possible similar to like an entrepreneurship like in the DNA, something people don't believe is possible and then you can make possible that feeling of amazement and surprise when somebody can't figure out how it's done. And it feels surreal, right? It feels, feels magical. And I just, I loved feeling it myself and I love the thought of, of other people having that same feeling. And that's sort of the feeling I get as an entrepreneur sometimes, too. So it's very, very similar.
- [47:43]
Randy Kaplan
Oz Perlman, the Mentalist is going to be on my show on Wednesday. We're filming it right here in the studio. Amazing. So I'm super pumped about that.
- [47:51]
Mark Lore
Oh, that's amazing.
- [47:52]
Randy Kaplan
I think people are just going to be shocked at, at what he's done and what he's managed to accomplish.
- [47:58]
Mark Lore
Yeah, that'll be, that'll be a fun one. That'll be really good.
- [48:01]
Randy Kaplan
You're the first person in your family to go to college. You went to Bucknell. We can talk about the track. And you're kind of set a state record in the hundred in the 300 yard dash and. But what I really want to talk about at Bucknell is we all have different reasons for going to college. When I was growing up, no Internet, no YouTube, no AI, no chat GPT. It was the same with you.
- [48:27]
Mark Lore
Yep.
- [48:28]
Randy Kaplan
So your parents, you know, my parents said, you know, you're going to college. It was never thought that I wouldn't go to college if you didn't go to college. Where I came from, something was wrong with you.
- [48:38]
Mark Lore
Right.
- [48:39]
Randy Kaplan
Today, you know, my son is a senior in college. I mean, he gets to college. He, he said for a while, Mark, he said, I didn't want to go to college. And his mom and I said, well, where are you going to live? I want to live with you. No, you're not going to live with us. You're going to go to college. And eventually, you know, when you tell your kids something, they're going to push back on you. Right. And then eventually he came around and said, yeah, I do want to go to college. The social experience and confidence college of living away from home and making these lifelong friends, I think is invaluable. Yeah, but in today's day and age, you can learn anything. And when he got to college, Mark, he said to me, you know, I'm bored. I'm not learning a lot. And are the professors at my school people who can't make it in the real world? There's some perception like that that's not always true. It may be true sometimes. I think college is really important in the development of us academically, intellectually, emotionally. And then the social connections are incredible. Is college necessary today with all the tools we have on YouTube, AI, where you can basically teach yourself whatever you need and focus on a specific area that you're actually interested in doing?
- [49:51]
Mark Lore
Yeah. I mean, there are compelling cases where it might not make Sense, but I think in general, like you said, there is a bit of maturity that happens, personal growth of like it's the first time for many people that they're away from their family and from their parents and spending those four years in sort of this transition environment where you're learning to spread your wings, be on your own, take care of yourself, make your own decisions. I think it's a, it's a nice transition for, for people. And like you said, you know, you're also at the same time learning, you're learning, but also learning how to learn, which I think is, is even more important. And, and of course the friendships, friendships that, you know, many people have for, for, for the rest of their lives. So I think there's a lot of benefits. I would, I would definitely be in, in favor of it for sure. And both my daughters were continuing after college with post graduate school.
- [50:52]
Randy Kaplan
So, you know, you worked on Wall street after you graduated Baker's Trust, Credit Suisse, Sanwa Bank. A lot of students and graduates think Wall Street's a great thing to do. The experience, the finance, the connections. Is that a good path to becoming an entrepreneur? So you may be learning something more about financial acuity and numbers, or is your advice to go into something else where you're interested in it or learning and shouldn't just go into a field because people are telling you it's really going to help you?
- [51:21]
Mark Lore
Yeah, this is, I mean, I know entrepreneurs that have started in all, all field, all different fields. So there's no, like, if you want to be an entrepreneur, go to this path. Sure, in banking you'll learn numbers, but you'll learn numbers just about anywhere you go. You're going to learn spreadsheets and have to have to deal with numbers in some way or another in most jobs. I think, honestly I tell people this, it's follow your passion, you know, follow your passion. What do you love to do? You're going to be doing it, you know, 200 and what is it, 240 days a year kind of thing. And you're going to be working long hours. Make sure it's something you love. And if you do love it, you're going to wind up learning a lot more than if you, than if you don't. And the learning a lot of it through osmosis though, just being around colleagues, your, your boss, leader, learning how they think, learning the culture of the organization, learning how to operate within an organization, potentially after a few years managing people like there's a lot of skills that I think are very important for an entrepreneur that you can get in any company. But I do think the person you work for is number one, and then number two would be the culture of the organization. So if you work with somebody that you really respect and can learn from, and it's within a company that has a very good culture, they'll learn a lot about what it takes to create a similar culture in your startup. Because at the end of the day, culture is everything. Like, if you have a great culture, you can recruit great people and get the best they've got to give because they're motivated and happy working in the company, then you can do just about anything. Sam.