Podcast
In the Shift
Hosted by Michael Frost · EN
A podcast for when life and faith go off script. Hosted by Michael Frost.
10episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Non-coercive community Pt 4: The religion of capitalism
Mar 301:03:54Tap to summarizeEpisode 113: In the Shift is back for 2026, and so is Shane – and we’re continuing our conversations about non-coercive community and how we build communities of care in a world shaped by capitalist individualism. In this episode we look at how society has changed over time, toward what is often called secularisation. In the secularised West, participation in communal life has become something of a free market choice that we must add to our already full lives. In that sense, participation in faith communities and other communities of care become choices we need to continually make, against the overwhelming tide of energy, demand and resources. But what if the full life we live is not neutral or a given, but is itself shaped by a set of default fundamental commitments built into contemporary capitalist society? Is it possible to ‘convert’ away from this mode of being, toward something more sustainable and life-giving? Contact In the Shift: feedback@intheshift.com Support In the Shift: www.patreon.com/intheshift For more information on the Open Table gathering in Auckland this coming June, visit https://theopentable.nz/
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Non-coercive Community Pt 3: The limitations of self-reliance and "opportunity"
Dec 401:12:45Tap to summarizeEpisode 112: In this episode Shane Meyer-Holt returns for another conversation about the journey of engaging in and building non-coercive communities. We talk about how individualism and capitalism have profoundly shaped so many of us in themes of self-reliance and the importance of opportunity (as well as the freedom to take up those opportunities). These are deeply inbuilt into the psyche of our societal assumptions - and they happen to make regular sustainable commitment to communities of care and mutual obligation an incredibly difficult prospect. If we ultimately believe (and in many respects, understandably so) that we are on our own in keeping our heads above water - then commitment to community can come into conflict with our need for self-reliance. And if we think that we must be free to take every opportunity available to us, then mutual care and genuine healthy obligations to one another may well get in they of those opportunities. In many respects, all modern collectives are struggling with this new reality. Some embrace a model of high-reward, high-punishment community as a mechanism to sustain participation. But what happens if you don't believe in that kind of church or collective dynamic? We come to this conversation as people involved in leading church communities (Shane, at Fitzroy North Community Church in Melbourne, and Michael, at Edge Kingsland in Auckland). Contact: feedback@intheshift.com Support: www.patreon.com/intheshift
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Why Church - with Petra Bagust
Nov 1500:57:06Tap to summarizeEpisode 111: In this collab episode between In the Shift and Sunday Sanctuary, I’m joined by Petra Bagust to discuss “why church?” In this conversation we chat through a bunch of reasons why church communities and collectives can be both challenging and nourishing/meaningful. We talk about the place of ritual, song and storytelling in human communities and identity formation, the challenges of individualism, acknowledging both the harm that churches and religious institutions can be complicit in, as well as the possibilities and hopes that remain important. You’ll find a more edited version of this conversation along with other reflections, practices and more over at the Sunday Sanctuary podcast, so check it out! Petra is a familiar face in Aotearoa New Zealand, having been on TV and radio over the last 30 years, beginning with cult-favourite TV show, Ice TV. She is a media chaplain with Media Chaplaincy New Zealand, host and broadcaster, hosting two podcasts - Sunday Sanctuary and the award-winning Grey Areas with Petra Bagust. Sunday Sanctuary is a podcast that brings hopeful spiritual conversations about our shared humanity. It began as a live radio show on Today FM, before becoming a podcast for those curious about Christian spirituality, as well as those who aren't currently part of a church community. Instagram: @sundaysanctuarynz Website: sundaysanctuary.nz Support In the Shift by heading to www.patreon.com/intheshift, and send your reflections, stories, experiences via email: feedback@intheshift.com
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Non-coercive Community Pt 2: When capitalism shapes everything
Oct 1901:18:07Tap to summarizeEpisode 110: We continue our series on non-coercive community - a bunch of conversations in which we are exploring the possibilities and challenges we experience in building sustainable non-coercive collectives and communities. In this conversation, Shane Meyer-Holt discusses his research into capitalism, care and community. We reflect on how so many aspects of our lives have become shaped, defined and understood in capitalist/neoliberal terms. Shane suggests that capitalism is not just an economic theory but has become a social imaginary - in other words, it has come to profoundly and deeply impact how we think about self, identity, relationships, community and care... and what kind of 'productivity' (and use of our energy) really matters and is worth something. Instead of viewing ourselves as interdependent communal beings who rely on each other through mutual obligation, we are shaped to see ourselves as competitive self-interested autonomous individuals trying to get ahead. We explore how freedom is defined within this framework and the overwhelm/stress it can generate, the increase in self blame, and the powerful cultural tides that make regular and sustainable participation in non-coercive communities really challenging. Shane is a co-leader of Fitzroy North Community Church in Melbourne and Michael is leader of Edge Kingsland, a church in Auckland. Shane's research draws on the work of Bruce Rogers-Vaughan and his book "Caring for Souls in a Neoliberal Age". Email: feedback@intheshift.com Support: www.patreon.com/intheshift
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This is not revival
Oct 300:33:54Tap to summarizeEpisode 109: Evangelicalism is having a moment.... some are calling it revival - but I think something else is going on here. This is a shorter episode (rather unplanned) on the contemporary Christian worship movement and the way it intersects with the revivalist hopes of Evangelicals/Pentecostals/Charismatics. What we find is that these movements have come to shape many Christian's understanding of what "God's presence" feels like, and of what they believe a "move of God" will look/feel/sound like. And it is these very interpretations, definitions and yearnings that are coming to function as a smokescreen for fascism - both intentionally and unintentionally.
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Gender Expansive Faith - with Steff Fenton
Sep 1801:13:37Tap to summarizeEpisode 108: Steff Fenton is author of the new book "Gender Expansive Faith: How Trans Lives are Illuminating the Divine, Transforming Feminism and Ending Christian Patriarchy." In this conversation we talk about Steff's journey of coming to terms with both their sexuality and then gender identity whilst also belonging to the church. We jump into a bunch of stuff including the distinctions between sex and gender, the spectrum and diversity of human experience, and the way in which strict gender binaries can create numerous problems for all humans. We also talk through some fascinating aspects of Jesus' reflection on marriage, eunuch's in the New Testament, the creation story in Genesis, and the gift that trans and non-binary folk can be to people of faith who are looking to find more expansive ways of seeing God and being human. You can find out more about Steff's work here and you can buy (and review) their new book via Amazon. To support the work of In the Shift, you can go to https://www.patreon.com/intheshift
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Non-coercive Community Pt 1: Is there a way forward?
Sep 1001:00:46Tap to summarizeEpisode 107: This is the first in a series of conversations with Shane Meyer-Holt about the possibilities and challenges in building non-coercive communities and collectives. In particular, we're interested in what church looks like for those of us who feel done with high-control/high-demand forms of religion, who are unable to go back to certainty, who have no desire for the "carrot & stick" based motivations for community life, and who want something much more inclusive. This is not a "fix-it" series for the church. We get that many in the wider church are actually pretty happy with the way things are and we are not trying to convince them to listen to us. Nor are we building the next idealised model for how we think church should be. This is a series for the people who want something different... and we are going to try and tackle the variety of cross pressures that occur in modern western neoliberal culture when we hope to build non-coercive communities of care and meaning. In this episode Shane and I talk about the church communities we help to lead. Shane co-leads a church in the inner north of Melbourne, Aus (Fitzroy North Community Church) and I (Michael) lead a church in Auckland, NZ (Edge Kingsland). We talk about why we're still doing this kind of thing... and start to discuss the hopeful things and the profound challenges that arise when trying to build non-coercive community where people are able to be honest, to care about each other and to belong in meaningful ways.
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Holy Hell - with Elise Heerde
Aug 2801:23:43Tap to summarizeEpisode 106: Elise Heerde (she/her) is author of the recently published book "Holy Hell: Saved so hard I needed therapy". In this conversation we talk about Elise's experience of growing up within a high-demand/high-control pentecostal megachurch, her journey toward becoming a leader and staff member, through to the ways in which it all fell apart. Elise has now gone on to work in the space of helping people recover from religious trauma, and so we talk about red flags and warning signs of an unhealthy spirituality, we discuss "sin journals" and spiritual gaslighting, methods of control and manipulation, as well as dive into the kind of work she does to help people work through these experiences and find healing. Elise is a Certified Coach in Melbourne, Australia, who helps people recover from religious trauma and cultic systems. Her work is grounded in lived experience, professional training, and a passion for creating safe, judgment-free spaces with a splash of sarcasm. You can find out more about her work here. She is also a co-founder of The Religious Trauma Collective (Australia/New Zealand) You can support the work of In the Shift via Patreon. Get in touch via email: feedback@intheshift.com. In this episode I also mention fundraising for an album of progressively-inclined worship music by my faith community, Edge Kingsland. You can support that project here.
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Poly-crisis, climate-crisis, and the need for a moral imagination
Aug 1101:20:40Tap to summarizeEpisode 105: Dr Andrew Shepherd is a Senior Lecturer in Theology and Public Issues at the University of Otago, with a particular interest in climate and ecological issues and the wider polycrisis that relates to the convergence of current economic, political, social, cultural and ecological challenges. In this conversation we talk through these intersecting issues, and how the work of theology and spirituality - in community, over time - could renew a kind of moral imagination that could help us tell and inhabit different stories about what matters. Andrew also features on the Ngā Here podcast with James Beck, and has been variously involved in the work of the Christian environmental organisation - A Rocha Aotearoa NZ
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Earthiness, spirituality and relational resonance
Jun 801:11:06Tap to summarizeEpisode 104: James Beck works with an organisation called A Rocha Aotearoa NZ (https://arocha.org.nz/) which is a Christian environmental conservation organisation. In this conversation we discuss the trajectory of his spirituality and work, especially how and why he made intentional choices to move away from the up-and-coming charismatic preacher kind of life, to become someone who instead is pouring his energy into environmental care, both in his own faith community and also in helping to cultivate this across a diverse range of faith communities in NZ. We talk about the tension between despair and active engagement that can come in this kind of work. We also reflect on how the 'outcomes' of ecological action (e.g. reversing climate change etc) are not the only measure of the importance of caring for our environment; there is something deeply human and deeply spiritual that can resonate in this space. As a part of his work, James is the director of the Eco Church network in New Zealand (https://www.ecochurch.org.nz/), as well as the host of the podcast Ngā Here – the Many Connections - a podcast that explores the connections between faith, caring for nature, and living in the context of Aotearoa NZ.
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