Podcast Summary: "Natasha Hausdorff" on In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch

Released on December 5, 2024

In this compelling episode of In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch, Rabbi Ammi Hirsch engages in a profound dialogue with Natasha Hausdorff, an esteemed expert in international law and the Legal Director of UK Lawyers for Israel Charitable Trust. The conversation delves deep into the complexities surrounding Israel's current conflicts, the misuse of international law, media bias, and the broader implications for Western civilization.

1. Introduction to Natasha Hausdorff and Her Expertise

Natasha Hausdorff introduces herself as a barrister based in London with a robust academic background, including studies at Oxford and Tel Aviv University, and a fellowship at Columbia Law School. Her role primarily involves defending Israel against what she terms as "lawfare"—the manipulation of legal systems to achieve political objectives against the Jewish state.

Natasha Hausdorff [00:25]: "Israel is fighting a war on many fronts. Not only on the battlefield, but also in the courtroom where the Jewish state has been misrepresented, maligned, slandered and accused of perpetrating the worst crimes against humanity."

2. Understanding International Law

Hausdorff provides a foundational understanding of international law, differentiating between treaties (written agreements that states opt into) and customary international law (practices that evolve over time). She emphasizes that international law governs the relationships between states, particularly highlighting the laws of armed conflict.

Natasha Hausdorff [02:15]: "International law is essentially the law that governs relationships between states... it's the way states interact with each other, their rights and obligations towards each other."

3. The ICC and ICJ's Jurisdiction Over Israel

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ), questioning their authority over Israel. Hausdorff points out that neither Israel nor the United States are signatories to the Rome Statute, which establishes the ICC, thereby lacking jurisdiction over Israeli actions.

Natasha Hausdorff [06:07]: "Israel is not a signatory to the ICC... the Court has no jurisdiction over Israeli territory."

She critiques the ICC's decision to accept Palestine as a state, arguing that Palestine does not meet the criteria for statehood under international law, thus further undermining the court's legitimacy in this context.

4. Lawfare and Political Motivations

Hausdorff introduces and elaborates on the concept of lawfare, describing it as the strategic use of legal systems and principles to damage an opponent. She asserts that international law is being weaponized against Israel to isolate it and delegitimize its actions.

Natasha Hausdorff [13:05]: "This is what you mean by lawfare right, by distorting principles of justice to pursue political aims?"

5. Allegations of Genocide Against Israel

The conversation intensifies as they tackle the severe accusation of genocide against Israel. Hausdorff vehemently denies these claims, tracing their origin to shifting narratives influenced by entities like South Africa and highlighting the historical context of genocide, particularly referencing Raphael Lemkin's creation of the term post-Holocaust.

Natasha Hausdorff [16:21]: "The intentional targeting of a national, ethnic, religious or racial group because of their identity. That is the essence of the crime of genocide."

She underscores the irony that victims of genocide, such as Israelis, are being accused of perpetrating the very crimes committed against them.

6. Media Bias and Misrepresentation

A critical segment of the episode addresses the pervasive media bias against Israel. Hausdorff recounts instances of false reporting, particularly by reputable organizations like the BBC and Associated Press, which have propagated misinformation about Israeli actions, leading to international outrage and unrest.

Natasha Hausdorff [31:59]: "There are many lawyers and some respected former judges, even of the Supreme Court in the United Kingdom, that were falling into this false narrative and this misrepresentation of what the Court had said."

She criticizes the media's failure to verify facts on the ground, resulting in skewed perceptions and damaging consequences for Israel.

7. Impact on Western Institutions and Universities

The discussion shifts to the role of Western educational institutions in shaping narratives about Israel. Hausdorff expresses concern over the increasingly hostile stance of universities towards Israel, attributing it to decades-long misinformation and a generational disconnect from Western liberal democratic values.

Natasha Hausdorff [42:27]: "There is a very tragic but accepted fact in armed conflict that civilians do die... but the way in which the army has risen to these challenges indicates that if anyone was in any doubt, Israel will win."

She laments the alignment of academic discourse with anti-Israel sentiments, which she believes fosters a breeding ground for extremism and a lack of purpose among the youth.

8. Conclusion: The State of Western Civilization and Israel's Role

In her concluding remarks, Hausdorff reflects on the broader implications of the ongoing conflicts and the attitudes toward Israel. She warns of a "civilizational war," where the defense of Israel becomes synonymous with the defense of Western values and liberal democracies. Hausdorff remains cautiously optimistic, advocating for continued support and accurate representation to uphold justice and protect Israel's integrity.

Rabbi Ammi Hirsch [53:06]: "Antisemitism ends up weakening and eventually destroying societies and organizations that tolerate it... This war against Israel is a test for Western civilization itself."

Natasha Hausdorff [48:42]: "The safety and the security of the state of Israel and the people of Israel. And that I think we can have great confidence in maintaining and everything else."

Key Takeaways

• Misuse of International Law: Hausdorff argues that international legal bodies are being manipulated to target Israel without legitimate jurisdiction, primarily through the ICC and ICJ.

• Media Responsibility: There is a significant concern over media outlets propagating false narratives against Israel, which fuels international bias and unrest.

• Lawfare as a Tool: The strategic use of legal systems to undermine Israel is a prevalent issue, aiming to isolate and delegitimize the Jewish state on the global stage.

• Educational Institutions' Role: Western universities are criticized for fostering anti-Israel sentiments, contributing to a generational disconnect from core liberal democratic values.

• Defending Western Values: The defense of Israel is portrayed as integral to safeguarding Western civilization, emphasizing the need for accurate representation and robust support.

This episode serves as a critical examination of the challenges Israel faces in international law, media representation, and societal perceptions. Natasha Hausdorff provides a passionate defense of Israel, advocating for truth, justice, and the preservation of Western liberal values amidst escalating global tensions.