Rudy Rochman

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Rudy Rahman" on In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch

Podcast Information:

• Title: In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch
• Host: Rabbi Ammi Hirsch, Stephen Wise Free Synagogue
• Episode Guest: Rudy Rahman
• Release Date: October 24, 2024
• Description: Every other week, Rabbi Ammi Hirsch hosts intellectually honest conversations unpacking current events through the lens of Jewish wisdom and values. Guests discuss topics ranging from foreign affairs and antisemitism to politics and pop culture, within the context of a historic Reform congregation rooted in liberalism, support for Israel, and social justice.

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1. Introduction to Rudy Rahman

Key Points:

• Background: Born in France, lived in Israel briefly, raised in Miami, served as a paratrooper in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).
• Education: Attended UCLA before transferring to Columbia University, recognized as a highly anti-Semitic institution.
• Mission: Engages in global projects to foster dialogue and strengthen Jewish identity, focusing on combating antisemitism and bridging Israeli-Palestinian divides.
• Recent Service: Called up during the October 7th events to fight in Kvar Aza and the Gaza Strip.

Notable Quotes:

• “Rabbi Ami Hirsch: Rudy Rahman visits campuses and other hotbeds of anti-Israel, anti-Zionist activity and engages the other side with incredible equanimity.” [00:45]

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2. Rahman’s Mission and Approach to Dialogue

Key Points:

• Engagement Strategy: Visits campuses and hostile environments to engage with anti-Zionist individuals calmly and respectfully.
• Use of Social Media: Shares his on-the-ground experiences to educate a broader audience, aiming to shift narratives through visibility and factual discourse.
• Philosophy: Believes in the power of reasoned dialogue to change minds, viewing hostile encounters as opportunities to plant seeds of understanding.

Notable Quotes:

• “Rudy Rahman: All of my work focuses on doing those things and it's a blessing.” [02:30]
• “Rudy Rahman: ... social media as a platform, as a tool to share the information about that, to help others be able to see light where there is darkness.” [03:44]

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3. Handling Hostile Encounters with Calmness

Key Points:

• Personal Calmness: Rahman maintains composure in the face of verbal and potential physical aggression, attributing it to his inherent nature and Jewish mystical beliefs.
• Kabbalah Influence: Utilizes principles from Jewish mysticism to stay resilient, believing that every test comes with the tools needed to overcome it.
• Purposeful Presence: Sees hostile encounters as moments to exemplify fearlessness and to leave a lasting positive impression on adversaries.

Notable Quotes:

• “Rudy Rahman: I've always been someone calm. I've never lost my cool.” [06:44]
• “Rudy Rahman: ... there's no test given to you that you don't have the Tools to be able to overcome... our soul chose to be here for a reason...” [07:08]
• “Rudy Rahman: ...there's a reason I'm here... they're going to forever remember that I have zero fear.” [08:53]

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4. Impact and Effectiveness of Rahman’s Efforts

Key Points:

• Mindset Shifts: Reports instances where initial hostility transitions to understanding and sometimes admiration or acceptance after dialogue.
• Long-Term Influence: Believes that even if immediate change isn't evident, planting seeds can lead to gradual transformation over time.
• Resistance Necessity: Emphasizes that combating antisemitism is crucial to prevent its escalation into life-threatening actions against Jews.

Notable Quotes:

• “Rudy Rahman: I've seen plenty and plenty of people change their mind in one conversation with them.” [05:05]
• “Rudy Rahman: Anti Semitism will continue to grow until it is stopped. If it isn't stopped, it will get to its objective, which is to eventually eradicate the Jewish people...” [05:47]

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5. Challenges within Jewish Education and Identity

Key Points:

• Jewish Literacy: Highlights a lack of comprehensive Jewish education that equips individuals with the knowledge and tools to defend their identity and beliefs.
• Identity Crisis: Attributes anti-Zionism among American Jews to a lack of strong Jewish identity and understanding of Jewish history and heritage.
• Educational Reform: Advocates for a shift from restrictive teachings to more liberative practices that encourage debate, public speaking, and self-defense against antisemitism.

Notable Quotes:

• “Rudy Rahman: We are not given the tools to actually go and be Jews in practice.” [18:24]
• “Rudy Rahman: Lack of Jewish identity, lack of Jewish identity, understanding what that means.” [18:47]

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6. Personal Experiences in the Israel Defense Forces

Key Points:

• Service During Crisis: Mobilized immediately after the October 7th attacks, participating in the liberation of Kvar Aza.
• Witnessing Atrocities: Experienced firsthand the brutalities inflicted by Hamas, which deepened his resolve to prevent future tragedies.
• Emotional Resilience: Despite witnessing horrific violence, Rahman maintains a focus on the bigger picture and the imperative to protect and preserve the Jewish community.

Notable Quotes:

• “Rudy Rahman: ... no one prepared me to witness a massacre of civilians.” [23:20]
• “Rudy Rahman: ... I knew that this meant that my unit was going to get called back up.” [22:03]

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7. Responding to Denial and Minimization of Atrocities

Key Points:

• Pattern of Denial: Observes a historical trend where Jews are blamed for various atrocities, a narrative he seeks to counter by asserting that Jews are the solution, not the problem.
• Emotional Impact: While he personally maintains calmness, Rabbi Hirsch expresses admiration and disbelief at Rahman's ability to remain unflustered in such situations.
• Symptomatic Understanding: Views denial and minimization as symptoms of deeper programming that vilifies Jews, reinforcing his commitment to challenge these narratives.

Notable Quotes:

• “Rudy Rahman: It's nothing new. They did that after the Holocaust...” [20:50]
• “Rabbi Ami Hirsch: ... I saw one of the clips that I viewed of you on a campus. Just respond, no, it did happen...” [26:15]

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8. Rabbi Ammi Hirsch’s Reflections and Call to Action

Key Points:

• Inspiration from Rahman: Rabbi Hirsch finds Rahman's approach and dedication deeply inspiring, reflecting on his own capacity to influence and persuade.
• Liberal Values: Emphasizes the importance of universalism alongside Jewish particularism, advocating for repair of the world (Tikkun Olam) without abandoning Jewish identity and solidarity.
• Encouragement to Young Jews: Urges young Jews to engage actively with their identity, uphold values of justice and righteousness, and support their community both in Israel and the diaspora.
• Community Responsibility: Stresses that Jewish peoplehood is central to Judaism, and communal solidarity is essential for survival and moral integrity.

Notable Quotes:

• “Rabbi Ami Hirsch: What we share is more important than what divides... Everything Jewish begins with Jewish peoplehood.” [29:05]
• “Rabbi Ami Hirsch: Direct your hearts and your eyes towards your people... support them, help them, free them, redeem them.” [35:03]

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Conclusion

The episode featuring Rudy Rahman provides an insightful exploration into the challenges faced by Jews, particularly in hostile environments, and the importance of maintaining strong Jewish identity and proactive dialogue. Rahman's experiences and strategies offer a blueprint for confronting antisemitism with calmness and reasoned discourse, while Rabbi Hirsch underscores the collective responsibility of the Jewish community to uphold their heritage and support one another in turbulent times.

For listeners seeking to understand effective methods of combating antisemitism and fostering Jewish solidarity, Rahman's narrative serves as both a call to action and a beacon of hope. His unwavering commitment to dialogue and education exemplifies the resilience and dedication required to navigate and overcome deep-seated prejudices.

Recommended Action:
Listeners are encouraged to watch Rudy Rahman’s videos online to witness his remarkable ability to engage with antagonists peacefully and effectively. Emulating his approach can empower individuals to contribute positively to their communities and the broader fight against hatred and discrimination.

Transcript

[Rudy Rahman]

Rabbi.

[Rabbi Ami Hirsch]

I'm Rabbi Ami Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue in New York. And you're listening to. In these Times, is it possible to dialogue with people who hate you? Can you reason with your sworn enemy, one who is not only deeply entrenched but who considers you to be evil?

[Rudy Rahman]

I was interviewing a few students and all of a sudden this huge mob, I think there were over 100 people there that were just coming at me. They had megaphones in my ear, they had drums bashing and you that they wanted to get violent. They were just waiting for the signal to be able to all pounce on me. And in this moment, I recognize, I'm like, you know what, there's a reason I'm here.

[Rabbi Ami Hirsch]

Rudy Rahman visits campuses and other hotbeds of anti Israel, anti Zionist activity and engages the other side with incredible equanimity. Calmly, he tries to open their hearts and minds to the mainstream Jewish Zionist perspective. And sometimes he even succeeds. I hope that many of you have seen his videos on social media. They have millions of views. But that's not why he does what he does. His mission is rooted in true belief and deep faith. Born in France, Rudy lived in Israel briefly before spending his formative years in Miami. He served as a paratrooper in the Israel Defense Forces and and then enrolled at ucla. But he transferred to Columbia when he found out that Columbia was considered to be the most anti Semitic university in the United States. Rudy graduated in 2018 and has pursued many projects all over the world aimed at fostering dialogue and strengthening the Jewish people. His work was interrupted on October 7 when he was called up to fight at Kvar Aza and then inside the Gaza Strip. Rudy, it's an honor to have you here and welcome to in these Times.

[Rudy Rahman]

Thank you.

[Unnamed Host]

It's good to have you. We happened to catch you a few days that you're passing through New York. So we're here live in our studio at the synagogue at the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue. Let me just ask you, how you doing? How are you feeling? You come to the States often, you live in Israel, you do a lot of. I don't even know what to call it, influencing or hasbara. How are you feeling nowadays?

[Rudy Rahman]

Bo Hashem I do a lot of bringing light wherever there's darkness to focus on fixing the problems that I see, whether it's anti Semitism, a lack of empowerment of our younger generation, a lack of vision and mission statement that we have as a generation of where we're going towards trying to transcend the Israeli Palestinian conflict. So all of my work focuses on doing those things and it's a blessing.

[Rabbi Ami Hirsch]

How would you describe what you do.

[Unnamed Host]

When you come here? And I know that you travel around the world. I've seen many of our listeners have seen clips of you on social media. Is it fair to describe you as an influencer? Is that how you see yourself?

[Rudy Rahman]

Well, I think the term influencer is usually for people who what they do is social media and what I do is not social media. I post what I do on social media. So what I do is more shift the pop culture, bring awareness to these communities and reach out to these communities, help them bring Israelis and Palestinians together, whether it's fighting for anti Semitism on college campuses or fighting for Israel and the Jewish people. I was on the front lines in Gaza, I just got out of reserves on the north, on the border of Lebanon. So I'm more someone that takes actions. And then I use social media as a platform, as a tool to share the information about that, to help others be able to see light where there is darkness.

[Unnamed Host]

So when we see. I recently saw a video of you, there were a million views and you just kind of plunked yourself down in the middle of what looked like a campus, I think. And I saw another clip, I think it was Washington Square near nyu. You just plunk yourself down and start talking with people. That's your vocation, that's what you do, that's your full time ambition.

[Rudy Rahman]

I'd say that's definitely a big part of what I do is going to these different spaces where there's so much hatred and rejection towards Israel and the Jewish and bringing light to those situations. And when I look at making a video, not only is it educating the person in front of me, it could be educating hundreds of thousands or millions who will watch that video. It could also be educating Jews that for the first time learn what could you respond to those kind of arguments? How do you remain confident? How do you remain calm? And how do we show that we have a narrative that's not necessarily counter to another narrative, but an extension of the truths that exist within other narratives? So it's sort of an art and a dance in order to be able to communicate in that way.

[Unnamed Host]

And do you think it actually makes a difference? Help us out. I'm a couple generations older than you and you know, I mean, we do our best. I'm on social media too, but you're the experts, not people in our generation. Does it really make a difference?

[Rudy Rahman]

Yes, I've seen plenty and plenty of people change their mind in one conversation with them. Sometimes it doesn't take one conversation. Sometimes in that first conversation, you planted seeds, and eventually it takes a few more times for them to speak to someone that eventually those seeds grow into a flower of truth. But, yeah, social media content does make a difference, but the reality is that there's something out there that's much bigger. Fighting antisemitism will not resolve antisemitism. However, you do need to fight it, because if you don't, you die. Meaning antisemitism will go from ideas to actions, and it will continue to grow and to grow and to grow until it is stopped. And if it isn't stopped, it will get to its objective, which is to eventually eradicate the Jewish people, for which we've seen that happen time and time again throughout Jewish history.

[Unnamed Host]

So tell me, in one of the video clips that I saw online, there were looked like what was a mob of people surrounding you. And you just stood there and you seemed tranquil and calm, and it was kind of cool to see. I didn't see any physical violence or effort to intimidate you by physical assault, but I did see a lot of verbal violence and threatening behavior. And you just stood there and you were very calm. Are you calm? And if so, how do you explain that? What are you feeling?

[Rudy Rahman]

So there's a few things I should say.

[Unnamed Host]

I don't think I could do that, honestly. I couldn't just sit there in front of a mob or stand there in front of a mob of like maybe 100 people, 50 people, who's shouting the worst, most provocative things. And you're just calm and cool.

[Rudy Rahman]

So there's a few things. First of all, I've always been someone calm. I've never lost my cool. Doesn't mean I haven't gone mad. But I've never said something I didn't mean. I never did something I didn't mean. And it's always been strange to me when I saw people growing up losing their cool and being enraged. And I'm like, how do you even get to that level? I mean, at the end of the day, you can be mad, but you should still be effective with what you do. So that's already my nature. But I look at the situation also with a little bit of Kabbalah within.

[Rabbi Ami Hirsch]

It, just for the listeners. That's Jewish mysticism.

[Rudy Rahman]

Exactly. It's the deeper answers and secrets behind the Judaism that we're normally taught. It says that there's no test given to you that you don't have the Tools to be able to overcome, meaning all the obstacles in front of us that we go through, whatever test, whatever problem, we should know and recognize that when we are put in front of them, our soul chose to be here for a reason, to uplift us. And we have all the tools within us to overcome. So when I'm in this situation, although I didn't go there for that, you know, I went there to interview a few people, which I was doing right before.

[Unnamed Host]

Where was that?

[Rudy Rahman]

This was in GW in Washington, D.C. i was interviewing a few students, and all of a sudden, this huge mob, I think there were over 100 people there that were just coming at me. They had megaphones in my ear, they had drums bashing. And you could see that they wanted to get violent. They were just waiting for this signal to be able to all pounce on me. And in this moment, I recognize, I'm like, you know what? There's a reason I'm here. And it could be everyone here's first time meeting a Jew. It could be everyone here's last time meeting a Jew. And I'm going to make sure that they were going to forever remember what a fearless Jew looks like. And I'm going to emit that energy that shows them that I have zero fear. I'm going to look them all in the eyes and they're going to forever remember that the next time that they meet a Jew, this is what they're going to remember. And that's all I was thinking about in that moment. Plus, whenever I'm in these situations, I always look at it as, imagine, 20 years later, I look back at this very moment. What would I tell myself I should have done? Am I going to look and say, oh, I was just regurgitating the negativity that they were projecting onto me. I was taking it with offense and insulting them back and making this about that very small situation. Or could I realize again, in this moment, I could have done something to help change that perspective? If a patient, patient goes to a doctor, the doctor is not going to condemn the patient because of the symptoms. They're going to try to find the source. So when these people are coming to me and saying all sorts of hateful things, it's not because that's who I really am or how they feel about me. They don't know me. It's because this is what they were taught or how they were programmed to see the world and to conceptualize the traumas and the problems that they see in the world. And to say that this is because of the Jewish people. This is a moment that I have to be able to fix that. I can be able to change that. So I look at those moments as an opportunity to create light where there is darkness and not to be consumed by the darkness.

[Unnamed Host]

So you considered that episode, for example, an extension of the purpose you went to GW and other places in the first place, which is to try and persuade people to try and dialogue, to have an actual conversation. And when that prospect shut off and the mob started to surround you, you were still in the business of trying to influence them, but only this way, because dialogue under those circumstances became impossible.

[Rudy Rahman]

Right. I couldn't speak, they were screaming loud. I couldn't get any word out. And so I was.

[Unnamed Host]

But you were still aware and conscious that you wanted to influence them in some way, make them think in some way.

[Rudy Rahman]

I was speaking without words.

[Unnamed Host]

Do you ever get scared?

[Rudy Rahman]

No.

[Unnamed Host]

You're never apprehensive about walking into a very hostile environment?

[Rudy Rahman]

I've been through some pretty crazy experiences in my life. Was in war several times. We were in Nigerian prison. We're working on this documentary series on the tribes of Israel. And in Nigeria we got taken, kidnapped, and we were three weeks in a cage. I've been through some pretty crazy experiences, but every single time, I recognize that Hashem is just giving me a test. And this is a test that I have all the tools within me to overcome. And every single time that has happened.

[Unnamed Host]

Do you ever feel it's a lost cause? Do you ever feel that somebody is just so close minded that dialogue becomes impossible? It's just a waste of time.

[Rudy Rahman]

I've seen very, very radical people change. And so even though the change might not come in one conversation because you might be planting some seeds that take time to grow, there is always an ability to change. And if we don't do that, I know the consequences of me not succeeding and our generation not succeeding in doing the dialogue. Eventually it becomes war. And I've seen that war firsthand. So if that's what it comes to and we fail in actually correcting our situation, I'll be on the front lines of that and my friends will be on the front lines of that. And so I'm doing everything that I can to prevent us getting there.

[Unnamed Host]

Can you point to, I'm not necessarily asking you to share with us, but in your mind, in your memory, can you point to examples of people who you persuaded, at least to the extent of reopening their minds about the Israeli Palestinian dispute or the Jews?

[Rudy Rahman]

Absolutely. I have first of all, many videos online of individuals who come into the conversation insulting me, saying all these apartheid, genocide, ethnic cleansing, colonization, settlements. Which by the way, is interesting because all those things is what the west did to the world. Apartheid, genocides, colonization, settlements. And the far left of the west feels so guilty for the crimes of their ancestors that rather than looking in the mirror and trying to correct the things that they've inherited, they're projecting their white guilt onto the Jewish people and using these things to try to make us seem guilty of what they're actually guilty of. But. But I've had plenty of conversations where people are throwing these things at me 20 minutes later. Hugs. I'm sorry, I didn't see it that way. You just taught me so much about Zionism in Israel. I wish every Israeli was like you. I'm actually open to learning more. So that's happened many, many times.

[Unnamed Host]

And these include Palestinians as well, or Americans who get caught up in the campus struggle.

[Rudy Rahman]

It's actually much easier with Palestinians to create resolution than it is with, let's say, a leftist white student or a far right winger white student. Because at the end of the, the Palestinians, they have a stake in the game, they want to live a better future. Whereas a lot of these American students on the far right, on the far left, they don't actually care about what's going on in the Middle East. For them, it's like a show, it's like a team to support, like a sports team. For Israelis and Palestinians, this is real life. Our children will be born there or our children should be born there. And so we're looking at the situation as how do we transcend? Now, of course there are Israelis who have a lot of pain and hatred towards Palestinians, and same thing for Palestinians who have a lot of pain and hatred towards Israelis. So oftentimes when we get into that first part of the conversation, there might be a lot of negativity that gets poured out. But if you're able to maintain calm and control and show that our narratives are not mutually exclusive and that this is not a zero sum game, then you can actually make way.

[Unnamed Host]

I imagine you've met a lot of American Jews on campus, including American Jews who are anti Zionists, supporters of bds. Do you find them open to persuasion?

[Rudy Rahman]

When I was a student at Columbia, one of the first classes they made us take was a class called University Studies. And it's basically this class you don't get a grade for. It's pass or fail based on attendance. And it teaches you how to Study how to get a good grade, how to use the library, how to write a paper. And I'm realizing as I'm sitting in this class that it's a huge waste of time. It's two hours per class, two classes per week, four hours total. And thank you very much, but I don't need to be taught how to use the library. So for Israelis, when we see a line, usually the line starts in the beginning, not in the end. And so right away I'm thinking, how am I going to get out of this? There's no way that I'm going to stay in this class and waste my time. And I sign in my name. And one day I see the kid on my right that signs his name, and I see David Cohen. And I'm like, all right, this guy's for sure Jewish. And so I pass the sheet over, I look at David, I'm like, yo, are you Jewish? And he says, yeah, so. And I'm like, no, relax. It's all good. You know, I'm also Jewish. And I'm like, listen, David, I have a deal for you. One day you're going to sign me in. I'm not going to come. The next day, I'm going to sign you, and you're not going to come. We're going to come 50% of these classes. And eventually we found a girl to sign us in. And we never came to that class again. We became friends. I came over his house one day, and he asked me, why did you come to Colombia? And I told him, I'm like, listen. I went on Google and I typed in number one, most anti Semitic university in North America, Columbia University was listed number one. So I came here to start the revolution of our generation, for us to write the next chapter of Jewish history. Because for me, never again doesn't mean we just say these words once or twice a year. And because we emitted these sounds out of our vocal cords, it's not going to happen. It means a generational commitment to make sure it doesn't happen again. And he starts saying, well, I'm not a fan of the apartheid and the genocide, the same things that get regurgitated. And instead of again condemning him and getting mad and upset and, you know, shooing him off, I said, well, before we get into that, tell me a little bit about you. Where were you born? Where did you grow up? And he says, oh, I was born and raised in the Bay Area. I'm like, okay, that makes sense.

[Unnamed Host]

But listen, I've met a lot of Bay Area Jews who are great. So, you know, we're all subject to our own group reputations here. I've met some reformed Jews who are great too, by the way.

[Rudy Rahman]

Yeah, I mean, there's great in many places, but let's be real that a lot of the BDS and stuff starts from the Bay Area. So I asked him, okay, well, before that. And he says, oh, my grandparents were from the Soviet Union. And I said, okay. And before. He's like, what do you mean? I said, well, Jews don't stem from the Soviet Union. We came from somewhere before that. And he had never understood that the Jews originally came from Israel. And I spoke to him about the linguistic history. If you look at the Yiddish being spoken in Russia, Russia, it's added on Russian words, and you can trace the line in which a population migrated due to the creoles that they're speaking. You could look at the genetic evidence that Ashkenazi DNA is Middle Eastern DNA, no matter where it's spread. You could look at the history books. And he had never understood that he was part of this great story of people that descend from Israel started to invite him. One event, two events, three events. At first, he didn't want to come to our events because he didn't want to put in the Zionist pictures. He's like, my anti Zionist friends don't want me to be a part of this. So. And I told him, we won't put you in the pictures. And after a year, he's like, you know what? I have to leave Colombia. And I told him, what do you mean? He's like, I have to go join the army in Israel. And he left and served in maga. So the point of the story is not to show that this is how to convince someone to do the army, because that was his own choice, but to show that when you see someone with something missing or something broken, we should look at them with, how do we fix it? The way I look at Jews that become anti Israel or anti Zionist is, you know, I took a class on psychology, and the professor was talking to us about how women deal with abusive relationships and that there's usually three ways a woman can respond to her husband or boyfriend beating her. Number one is to fight back, to stand up and to get help. Number two is to make excuses and say, oh, it was just one time. You didn't really mean it. He was just drunk. And the professor says that number three is to blame herself and say, no, no, it's my fault. It's because I had done this or I had done that. And that's the way I see the same thing with Jews dealing with anti Semitism. Some Jews stand up and fight back. Many Jews ignore the problem, make excuses for it. Oh, it's against Israel, it's not against the Jews. It's over there, it's not over here. And then you have some Jews who blame themselves for their own trauma and side with their oppressors, whether it's on the far right or on the far left. It's happened throughout history. So when I see a Jew like that, I don't look at them as a self hating Jew that many people call them, because I wouldn't look at a woman and say, that's a self hating woman. If a woman's blaming herself for her husband beating her, I would look at that as that's a woman that's been through a lot of trauma and I have to help her. And so to my fellow Jews that are disconnected from the nation of Israel, from the people of Israel, from the land of Israel, we need to unite. And that doesn't mean you can't be critical of the state of Israel. I don't know one Israeli in Israel that doesn't criticize the government. There's a difference with, between criticizing the Israeli government and trying to delegitimize or to demonize our existence, our identity and our connection to the land.

[Unnamed Host]

You also mentioned something that I find to be one of the common denominators. You talked about this American Jew who had no idea of his history, of his background, or didn't know enough, and so on. Do you find that to be the case as well amongst American Jews on campus, that basically many of them are Jewishly illiterate?

[Rudy Rahman]

There could be several reasons why someone rejects Israel and the Jewish people. It could be a rebellion towards their parents, could be a social pressure. It could be many things. But often and usually it's from a lack of identity. And I think, you know, lack of Jewish identity, lack of Jewish identity, understanding what that means. And it's also a failure of our Jewish education. I mean, going to Jewish day schools and speaking to many Jewish day schools all around the world. I mean, some of them go through 12 years of Jewish day school every year they're learning Hebrew and they come out and don't speak Hebrew or they're learning about how to practice Judaism rather than how to put Judaism into practice. Why were we not taught how to do debates, how to do public speaking, how to defend ourselves, how to know all the counter narratives that exist against The Jewish people. So then we face them, we know what to say. We're not given the tools to actually go and be Jews in practice. And also we get taught of this story that's like an external religious story that's written in some book. And it's our traditions and it's our religion, it's our spirituality. But we don't look at ourselves as a continuation of that story. I mean, I grew up, up with some Jews that rejected Judaism because of the way it was taught to them. And it wasn't taught in a way of liberation. It was taught in a way of restriction. So I think there is a lot of decolonization that Judaism needs to go through, a lot of trauma that we need to heal from. And that's a big part of, I think, what the next chapter of Jewish history looks like.

[Unnamed Host]

You were mobilized right away after October 7, right?

[Rudy Rahman]

Yes.

[Unnamed Host]

In reserves. And your first station was on the kibbutz at Kvaraza.

[Rudy Rahman]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Host]

And you saw some of the horrific tragedies and offenses and savagery that was inflicted on the population by Hamas. How does it make you feel to encounter in the west people who deny October 7th? They either say it never happened, it's Israeli propaganda, or if some bad things did happen, it's the Israelis who did it to their own people.

[Rudy Rahman]

It's nothing new. They did that after the Holocaust. They've done that throughout Jewish history. And it's always about finding a way to put the Jews as the source of the blame. And again, the way I take it is not that we are the source of the problem, but that we're supposed to be the source of the solution. So I look at their conclusions. Of trying to blame Israel or to minimize our humanity or to minimize our experiences is just a symptom of that.

[Unnamed Host]

Emotionally, how does it make you feel? You saw the atrocities. Could you, in an appropriate way, mindful that there are lots of different people in different ages that are listening to this podcast, but could you just step back for a moment and describe what you saw?

[Rudy Rahman]

So I'll try to do my best with the least explicit descriptions of it, but just an overview. I woke up at about 7:38 in the morning to my mom knocking on the door, me opening the door, tears pouring down her eyes, her showing me the phone. And those are the moments that some of the first videos were going viral of what was going on, of soldiers bodies being dragged into Gaza and people just being shot in the streets and killed and bodies on the floor.

[Unnamed Host]

You were in Jerusalem.

[Rudy Rahman]

I was actually In Caesarea, in cesarea.

[Unnamed Host]

And weren't there sirens going off all over Israel, or you weren't woken up.

[Rudy Rahman]

By that at that point? There was no sirens there. The sirens are more to the south and to the north. And I was woken up to my mom showing me this. And when I saw it, I mean, Israel is not new, unfortunately, to terrorism. When I saw this, I knew that this was different. This was not something that we had faced before. And every minute there was a new video coming out and more people dying. And so I knew that that meant that my unit was going to get called back up. I'm part of the paratroopers reserves, and our unit specifically is actually considered an active unit that they can call back up at any moment and back into war. And so half an hour later, I get a text from my commander that says, come back to the base. Put my stuff in the car not two minutes later, and drove as fast as I could to Jerusalem, to where I live. Dropped off my civilian clothes, picked up my army bags that I had ready in case of a day like this, drove to our base, got there, they gave us a gun, they gave us a few equipments that we needed that we didn't have, and we got sent to Khvarazad for PM.

[Unnamed Host]

We got there on October 7.

[Rudy Rahman]

On October 7, and it was still.

[Unnamed Host]

In the middle of a battle they still had. So you participated in the battle to liberate Kvaraz?

[Rudy Rahman]

Our unit liberated Kvaraza. And when we got there, I mean, it's men, women, children of all kinds, just savage butchering and the worst of images than you could imagine. I'm not going to go into the specifics, but as much as I was prepared to be a soldier, no one prepared me to witness a massacre of civilians. You know, one soldier versus one soldier is one thing, but, you know, countless bodies everywhere just killed in the most gruesome of ways. It's not something that anyone could be prepared. And all that I was feeling is, how could we have let this happen? This must have been for a reason, for which I do think it's happened for a reason. And how do we prevent it? And I'm going to make sure that once I get out of here, I'm going to do everything that I can to make sure that we don't go through things like this again.

[Unnamed Host]

Just a question. On the. On the battle to remove the terrorists in the kibbutz, how long did that take?

[Rudy Rahman]

About two and a half days.

[Unnamed Host]

So you were fighting in the kibbutz for Two and a half days.

[Rudy Rahman]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Host]

And why was it so difficult to remove them?

[Rudy Rahman]

Our unit isn't that big, and they were all over. They had infiltrated. They were in houses, they were on the roofs. They were still pouring in. Part of our unit was responsible to make sure that no more, more terrorists were coming in. And other parts of the unit were, you know, responsible to make sure that wherever they're hiding that they would be caught. And so you want to also move carefully because there are still civilians that were trapped in their homes and we don't want more casualties. So it's not like you can move very quickly, and it's not an open field of like one army versus the next army. I mean, if you go into a village, a community, a town, there's plenty of places that one can hide. I mean, you can go into the roof, you know, you can go into the ceiling, you can go into the vents, you can go into the sewage. There's so many places that someone can hide. So you need to be very, very careful because one little mistake can mean the death of many.

[Unnamed Host]

Did you lose friends on that day?

[Rudy Rahman]

Yeah, not on that specific day, but in Gaza afterwards?

[Unnamed Host]

Yes, in Gaza afterwards. So your unit came out unscathed in terms of killed or wounded in the battle to liberate Kfar Aza in Kfalaza.

[Rudy Rahman]

Correct.

[Unnamed Host]

And I should say the paratroopers are considered an elite unit in the idea. So again, going back to my question, so I mean, you were there during the war. You saw what Hamas did. Emotionally. How does it make you feel when you encounter people over here who either minimize what happened or deny what happened?

[Rudy Rahman]

It's just a symptom. They're programmed to view the world through the lens that the Jews are the source of the problem. And I know where this is coming from. From.

[Unnamed Host]

See, that's the, that's one of the examples of what I said about your, your just calmness and your tranquility. I don't think I could do that. I, I, I wasn't there and I wasn't in the IDF. I was in the IDF decades ago, but, but of course not on October 7th.

[Rudy Rahman]

What did you do in that?

[Unnamed Host]

I was a tank commander back, back in the 70s. But even now I don't think I could, with equanimity, sit down and with calmness, accept people shouting in my face that this whole thing is propaganda from the Jews and from Israel and Nothing happened on October 7th. It's just amazing to me that you can kind of let it absorb, kind of wash through you. And I saw one of the clips that I viewed of you on a campus. Just, just, just respond, no, it did happen. No, it didn't. No, it did happen. And you didn't raise your voice. You didn't, you know, you didn't lose your cool. That's a remarkable thing. I can't. I don't think I can do it.

[Rudy Rahman]

I think you could.

[Unnamed Host]

One last question to you. Do you have a message for American Jews?

[Rudy Rahman]

Anti Semitism is becoming worse and worse. And I think it's important for us to realize that it's either either we stand up and we fight back, or it's time to leave now. You can't do the middle and do nothing. And I think a lot of American Jews are trying to find their purpose in this war, in this combat, in this crazy world that we're living in. And sometimes we take inspiration from others and want to emulate others, which is also fine. But I think that people should look within to find what is their purpose. And not everyone needs to go to Columbia University and make content and go find tribes in the middle of Africa. Not everyone has to become the same way as another person. And I think the way to find what your purpose is is to ask yourself, what are the problems that you see? There's a reason we all see different problems, because problems are really an expression of what our eyes are communicating to us, of what our soul is trying to say. Go and fix that. So wherever you see a problem in this world, however small, however big or it can be several problems, understand that this is your soul trying to communicate to you that this is something that you need to fix. These problems can also evolve with time. Where we are when we're in our 20s versus our 30s versus our 40s can also change. So we need to be open to its evol and we need to recognize that we all have certain skills. Use those skills that you were born with, work on yourself to acquire more skills and use that to fix the problems that you see. And I think if Jews did that individually and collectively, they'd live a far more fulfilled life than they currently are with that.

[Unnamed Host]

Rudy, thank you very much for spending this time with us. Keep up the good fight, and God willing, in our lifetimes, we'll see peace and coexistence and some degree of tranquility.

[Rudy Rahman]

Amen.

[Rabbi Ami Hirsch]

If you've not seen some of Rudy Rachman's videos online, I urge you to take a look. His calmness and courage in the face of seething mobs is something to Behold his willingness to plunk himself down in the most hostile environments and speak directly to those who he knows not only disagree with him, but often despise what he stands for is remarkable. It can only be done by a person of deep faith, one who knows what he believes and who also believes in the capacity of people to reason with each other and to change their minds to reconcile one with the other. Even after generations of enmity. I believe in that. The assumption that people can respond to reason, facts and evidence and be persuaded that people and nations can change is at the very heart of a liberal outlook on life. I was taken by Rudy's description of David Cohen caused me to reflect on my own assumptions. I'm less optimistic than Rudy in my capacities to influence and persuade anti Zionist Jews. But perhaps he's right. And in any case, his single minded determination to get through to people who may not only disagree but consider him immoral is deeply inspiring to me. Whether or not it's too late to reach anti Zionist Jewish Gen Zs, I'm convinced that it's not too late to reach the younger generations or the parents of these young Jews. It is among the highest urgencies and responsibilities now of all who are in Jewish communal leadership. And to all of you I say I'm a liberal. One of the central values of liberalism is that all human beings matter equally, irrespective of religion, race, ethnicity, background or sexual orientation. What we share is more important than what divides. Humanity is our common lot. We emerge from the same clay, inhabit the same flesh and are dissolved in the same dust at the same time. Our tradition insisted that the universal begins with the particular. Everything Jewish begins with Jewish peoplehood. Kol Yisra'el Arvin Zebazeh All Jews are responsible one for the other. The sages taught Judaism Absent Jewish peoplehood is not Judaism. It is something else. Tikkun Olam Repair of the world ripped from the moorings of Claudius Rite the centrality of Jewish peoplehood is not Jewish universalism. It's just universalism amidst the turmoil, polarization and anxieties of our times. Do not abandon your affection, responsibility and loyalty to our own people. Our destinies are tied one to the other. We have many different views, we believe many different things. We are a contentious, argumentative, strong willed, opinionated family. But we are family that assumes the obligations and responsibilities of love for each other. To young Jews, know that we tried to instill in you a sense of justice, righteousness, virtue, honor, rectitude, honesty and decency for all people we are proud when your generation is active in pursuance of these values. And if these ideals lead you to be critics of Israeli policies or the American Jewish community, so be it. Welcome to the club. Every Jew, in one way or another, is a critic. To mourn the loss of life, dislocation and misery of Palestinian civilians is a virtue. To have different opinions about the nature and timing of the war aims or a ceasefire in Gaza is entirely legitimate and appropriate. What we did not intend is for your generation to turn your backs on our people. We wanted you to be Zionists. We did not intend that our emphasis on tikkun olam social repair would lead some Jews to join anti Israel demonstrations. We did not intend for Jews to lead Passover seders in so called liberated zones, liberated from Zionists that violate not only university policies but threaten the safety of Jewish students. Some of those protests contain anti American sentiments as well. We did not intend to encourage or excuse Jews who burn American flags or support those who do. We did not intend that criticism of Israeli policy lead to detached indifference and a vacuous lack of compassion for the murdered, brutalized, sexually assaulted and kidnapped of our own people. We did not intend to strip Jewish solidarity, empathy, responsibility and mutuality from your Jewish identity, not only towards Israeli civilians, but soldiers your age who exhibit astonishing courage and remarkable self sacrifice, many of whom laid down their lives protecting our people in feats of enormous heroism. At the beginning of the book of Exodus, before Moses was called to leadership, the Torah describes this Prince of Egypt's first encounter with the Hebrew slaves Vaygdal Moshe and Moses grew up vayetze elechav. And he went out unto his brethren, vayaar b'sivlo tam. And he saw their suffering. The preeminent commentator, Rashi asks, if he went out to his brethren, do we need to be told that he saw their suffering? Since he had eyes, obviously he saw their suffering. Rashi responds, he directed his heart and eyes towards them so that he would suffer along with them. Direct your hearts and your eyes towards your people. If they rejoice, rejoice with them. And if they are suffering, suffer with them, mourn with them, support them, help them, free them, redeem them. Until next time.

[Unnamed Host]

This is in these times.