Vincent | Chapter 6

Summary

Inconceivable Truth: Episode "Vincent | Chapter 6" – A Journey to Uncover Hidden Identity

Introduction

In Episode 6, titled "Vincent," released on May 2, 2024, host Matt Katz delves deeper into his lifelong quest to uncover the identity of his biological father. This episode marks a pivotal moment in Katz's search, unveiling significant breakthroughs and emotional revelations that challenge his understanding of identity, family, and ethical boundaries.

Reunion with the Past: The Barber's Candid Perspective [02:58]

Matt begins the episode at his trusted Philadelphia barber, Daryl, who has been a consistent presence throughout Katz's journey. Unlike others, Daryl has always supported Matt's search for his biological father. As they engage in a frank discussion, Daryl, portrayed as a "reality voice" ([04:09]), raises critical ethical questions about Matt's pursuit:

Christina Bryan: "You're dishonoring someone's request and making yourself a presence in their life that they did not want."

Daryl's skepticism underscores the emotional complexities and potential intrusions involved in Matt's quest, emphasizing the delicate balance between seeking truth and respecting others' boundaries.

Introducing the DNA Sleuth: Christina Bryan's Expertise [11:52]

Frustrated by decades of unsuccessful searches, Matt enlists the help of Christina Bryan, a seasoned genetic and family investigator known as the "DNA sleuth." Bryan brings a fresh perspective, offering structured methodologies to tackle Matt's intricate family tree. She introduces Matt to Ryan McNally, another pivotal figure in his search, highlighting the collaborative effort required to navigate complex genealogical puzzles.

The Emotional Toll and Ethical Dilemmas [04:26]

Throughout the conversation with Daryl, various ethical dilemmas emerge. Christina challenges Matt's motivations, questioning whether his pursuit is more about personal fulfillment than mutual interest:

Christina Bryan: "It's a selfish thing. I feel that's a hardship you're creating for yourself as well as the other person."

These exchanges illuminate the moral quandaries inherent in searching for a biological parent, especially one who may have had no intention of establishing a relationship.

Breakthrough: Identifying Vincent McNally [29:25 – 40:52]

A significant breakthrough occurs when Christina introduces Matt to Ryan McNally via Facebook. Ryan, a mother of three, reveals through her grandfather that Vincent McNally is indeed Matt's sperm donor. This revelation is both exhilarating and daunting:

Matt Katz: "Holy shit, my father's name is Vincent McNally. I can now basically say that."

The identification of Vincent marks a monumental step forward, yet it also raises new questions about how to approach a man who has remained elusive for so long. Matt grapples with the fear and anticipation of potentially reaching out to Vincent, contemplating the impact of such a contact on both their lives.

Emotional Reactions and Family Dynamics [42:06 – 56:27]

Matt shares his emotional turmoil upon discovering Vincent's identity, reflecting on the familial bonds and resemblances that hint at deeper connections:

Ad: "It's so fascinating. We all seem to have a similar kind of disposition. Maybe learning more about him will give us insight."

The episode highlights the interconnectedness of family members and the shared traits that link Matt to Vincent, fostering both excitement and apprehension about the impending reunion.

Conclusion: The Path Forward [52:28 – End]

As the episode nears its end, Matt contemplates the next steps in his journey. With Vincent identified but not yet located, the narrative sets the stage for future episodes where Matt must confront the realities of reaching out to a potentially estranged and older father. The episode closes on a note of suspense and anticipation, leaving listeners eager to follow Matt's continued exploration of his hidden history.

Notable Quotes

• Christina Bryan [04:09]: "It's a selfish thing. I feel that's a hardship you're creating for yourself as well as the other person."
• Matt Katz [29:51]: "His resemblance to me is striking."
• Ryan McNally [18:28]: "I think together we are going to find it."
• Ad [42:12]: "It's kind of like a piece of your puzzle that is very important."

Themes and Insights

• Identity and Self-Discovery: Matt's journey underscores the profound quest for personal identity and understanding one's origins.
• Ethical Considerations: The episode navigates the moral complexities of seeking out a biological parent who may not wish to be found.
• Family and Connection: It explores the intricate dynamics of family ties, both biological and chosen, and the impact of reconciling fragmented histories.
• Emotional Resilience: Matt's perseverance in the face of numerous setbacks highlights the emotional strength required to confront deeply personal mysteries.

Conclusion

"Vincent | Chapter 6" serves as a compelling chapter in Matt Katz's investigative journey, blending personal narrative with investigative rigor. As Matt edges closer to uncovering the truth about his biological father, the episode invites listeners to contemplate their own notions of family, identity, and the lengths one will go to find their roots. The episode sets up a cliffhanger that promises further emotional and investigative exploration in subsequent installments of "Inconceivable Truth."

Transcript

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Hey, y'all, it's your girl Ad. You may know me from Love is Blind, but if you think what you saw on the screen was the whole story. Yeah, think again. Because on my podcast, what's the reality? I'm breaking everything down from love. I love love, and I love my man. Relationships. What advice would you give to women or just people in toxic relationships? Stop romanticizing red flags. Say that one more time. Pop culture. And what really goes down when the cameras stop rolling and you already know. I'm not holding back. Do you feel like you wanna tell us what actually happened that night? I'm done protecting where it's sacrificing me. Girl wanted to jump through that TV screen.

[Matt Katz]

Same.

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I watched that back and I was. My jaw was on the floor. I was like, they did me so dirty with that edit. So into the group, chat with me Every Wednesday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Y'all, let's spill this tea together. See you there. Hey, have you met AllModern? AllModern brings you the best of modern furniture and decor all in one place in April 26 through 28. You'll save up to 70% during their big sale of the year. Don't miss deals on sofas, outdoor furniture, and more. All on sale at All Modern. Then get them delivered fast and free. Zero shipping fees and zero stress. That's modern made simple. Get an early look online before the sale starts April 26th. Then [e-mail].

[Christina Bryan]

If you've been having your.

[Matt Katz]

McDonald's sausage McMuffin with an iced coffee.

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[Matt Katz]

This podcast is intended for mature audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

[Christina Bryan]

Hey, Mr. Bill. What's up, buddy? Hey, Mo. I'm doing good, man.

[Matt Katz]

Good. Just about every month for the past 20 years, I've been going to the same barber In Philly, he's a fixture in the neighborhood. How are you? I brought my microphone. I hope you're in a chatty mood. His name is Daryl, and he is not shy about his opinions. As he cuts my hair, we talk about everything. The conversations are raw, honest, sometimes profane.

[Christina Bryan]

So what are we doing with your hair?

[Matt Katz]

You know, same, same, same. Long on the top, short ish on the sides, not shaved. The thing about Daryl is he tells me what he really thinks. As I've updated him through the years on my search for my biological father, he has, not, unlike most people in my life, agreed with what I'm doing. So today I tell Darrell I want his full take, no holds barred. You represent a contrarian voice.

[Christina Bryan]

I don't like that term. No, I'm not a contrarian.

[Matt Katz]

What are you?

[Christina Bryan]

I'm a reality voice.

[Matt Katz]

I remind him of how it all started, but I don't get far. And then I do the other DNA site, 23andMe. And that's when I found a half sister. And she's the one who told me.

[Christina Bryan]

You'Re just a pain in the ass.

[Matt Katz]

Go ahead.

[Christina Bryan]

Jesus Christ, it's combative already. Yes, it is combative already, because this is like a hodgepodge of a big fucking mess of a train wreck mess. You're searching for something that did not want to be found. This person who has donated their sperm, however many years ago, they had no interest at the time and probably were told that they would not be found out, and they were basically doing a service. So other people may have children or basically for the monetary value of it, receiving, you know, money for part of their body fluids.

[Matt Katz]

Yeah, they got 20 bucks.

[Christina Bryan]

So at the time you say 20 bucks. So therefore, this person is not looking for a relationship for what he's doing. I can understand wanting to know your background. Fine, so you found that out already. But to go and dig up this person and make them relive a situation, or ask them to relive a situation that they had no possibly no feelings about, and then 40 years later, this person is right here in front of you. What do you do with that? But just look at it and says, oh, my God, what am I supposed to do with this? I have no relationship with you. I don't have any love for you. And now you're in front of me saying, hi, I'm so and so. I'm your son. I'm your child. Where does it go from there?

[Matt Katz]

I guess we see where it goes. Maybe he donated a bunch of times in the 70s. And this man, if he's still alive, has wondered through the years if he has children out there. Maybe his life would be enriched by. By knowing who his children are.

[Christina Bryan]

You're dishonoring someone's request and making yourself a presence in their life that they did not want.

[Matt Katz]

Well, I had no choice in this matter either. I just came to exist.

[Christina Bryan]

The person that you're searching out for is not the person that wants to be part of your life. And you're in a matter forcing them to deal with you. It's like digging up the dead. You have resurrected this and put it in front of their face.

[Matt Katz]

Right, Understood. But I. I would not. If I were to call this person, if I figure out who it is, if. Or knock on the person's door, I wouldn't force them to, like, have a relationship with me. I wouldn't call them daddy and say, what are you getting me for Hanukkah? Or, I guess, Christmas, in a sense.

[Christina Bryan]

No. No.

[Matt Katz]

So, I mean, they're like, I don't see you as my child. I don't want to have a relationship. That would be it.

[Christina Bryan]

It won't be. It just your mere presence changes that whole story, changes that whole context. They don't know, have no idea that you exist, and that's the way they wanted it to be. So you are forcing them to deal with your reality.

[Matt Katz]

I know he's out there or was out there, or I don't know if he's alive or dead.

[Christina Bryan]

Does that matter? Does that matter? Because he had.

[Matt Katz]

In my day to day. But I feel like it matters from, like, an existential perspective, like, how did I come to exist? Who is this person? Does he have other children? I'm curious about his life, what he did for a living.

[Christina Bryan]

Okay.

[Matt Katz]

There was, like, a lie built in to this whole process from the start.

[Christina Bryan]

Yes.

[Matt Katz]

And I just want to resolve it and know the truth.

[Christina Bryan]

It's nothing to resolve. You have the truth right there. It's just your curiosity and wanting to do this for your sake, not for their sake. You got to think of this. This is a selfish thing. I feel that's a hardship you're creating for yourself as well as the other person. Let it go. It's not all about cloak and dagger and being, you know, Inspector Clouseau and finding this. And find some things are not meant to find, and some things want to be private, and some things want to be buried. And by digging them up, you open yourself up to a lot of hurt, a lot of harm. You know, when this is all said and done. Say you find John McDougall, who's your original biological donor. Sperm donor. Are we going to have a relationship now? Or where does it go from here?

[Matt Katz]

I guess that would be up to him and his family that he might have.

[Christina Bryan]

What would you want?

[Matt Katz]

I Unless he was like a clearly negative. What would you want? I would want some sort of relationship. Okay, so you maybe that means a phone call every once in a while and maybe a visit once a year. Maybe I'd like him to meet my kids. Okay, so yeah, I guess I have. I'm open to it all.

[Christina Bryan]

And the outcome is, what if he doesn't want to do any of that?

[Matt Katz]

Yeah, I. I don't know. From Waveland and Rococo Punch. This is inconceivable truth. I'm Matt Katz Episode 6 Vincent's.

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[Matt Katz]

I first started searching for my biological father back when I was 8. It's like a riddle that I'm spending my life struggling to solve, but I'm still stuck. A lot of people have helped my siblings and me in our so far failed search for our father. Search angels on Facebook those self taught DNA experts who do hours of research for free. A couple of years ago, a forensic scientist who uses DNA to identify the remains of crime victims, cold cases going back generations. She was kind enough to look into my family tree, put in months of work even she couldn't figure out who my father is or was. I'm too close to stop now and that's why I decided to get some More help. I called Christina Bryan, a genetic and family investigator. She helps people solve their DNA mysteries. They call her the DNA sleuth. And she has a very different perspective than my barber, Darrell.

[Ryan McNally]

You have an innate need. And people who find out either their parent is not their parent or they were adopted and they're looking. Yeah, they have that feeling. Maybe they're afraid to find out what they're gonna find out, or maybe it's intimidating and they don't maybe wanna do it, but there's something deep down. Yeah, I mean, I know who my parents are, and I still have an interest and a need to know who their parents are and their parents. I'm like, what's the story?

[Matt Katz]

Christina says, keep looking. She helps people find family members and learn truths about their pasts. She's worked with hundreds across the country analyzing their DNA test results and combing through public records from high school yearbooks to old phone directories to help donor conceived people or adoptees or others with unanswered questions. And she warns her clients to ask themselves certain questions before they go all in on their search. How would you feel? Questions like, how would you feel if you find out your parents put you up for adoption but kept and raised your twin?

[Ryan McNally]

I have had some great, shocking, crazy stories. And I learned that with regard to family trees, everybody has some amazing things in their family trees. And every person has some messed up stuff in their family trees.

[Matt Katz]

I believe it. Messed up, yes.

[Ryan McNally]

I mean, there's some branches that we all have that we just want to, like, sever, but they're in there. You know, if you're looking for a good story, you can find one. You can definitely find one. But then finding the truth, and if it's not what you want it to be, it's just part of the story. It's, you know, it's how you deal with it.

[Matt Katz]

After Christina's little pep talk, I started to fill her in on my backstory, the clues I've gathered so far so she can help with my search. So I am, I'm not coming to this with no experience. I actually already found a parent once before when I was 16 years old. A little backstory here. I tell her about how that father I found at 16 turned out to be the wrong guy. About how I took a DNA test and found half siblings and about how one of them, Helena, first told me we were donor conceived. And that was approximately five years ago. And I have been, we have been searching for my father ever since. Now that's juicy. It's wild to think about how widespread these discoveries are and how these revelations are playing out in households just like mine all over the world.

[Ryan McNally]

Every moment of the day, every socioeconomic class, every race, every religion, every education level, every. This is happening in every family. It's been, you know, thought that the number is as much as 10% of people have unknown paternity or they believe somebody is the father. That's not. Yeah, and 10% is a big number. Is a big, big number. And that's why we're hearing so many of these stories.

[Matt Katz]

Paternity matters. It has determined who's responsible for supporting a child and who might inherit a fortune. It's determined religious identity, surnames, citizenship. It's led to the coronations of kings and queens. But by its very nature, paternity has always been unclear until now with DNA and the Internet. Untold thousands are right now in front of their laptops finding out that their fathers are really their uncles, or they were the products of infidelity, or their dads also fathered some of their classmates, or they have hundreds, hundreds of donor conceived siblings all over the world. For the first time in human history, we can definitively determine fatherhood. And that means those of us who had our stories, our life narratives yanked from us before we were even born, we can finally take them back. I feel like I'm close to identifying this unknown person, and I'm excited about it, nervous about it, anxious about it, but I'm also deeply frustrated in that a lot of work has been done already, and it just, every time I think we're close seems further away. My case is uniquely difficult. My siblings and I haven't made any DNA connections with any first cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents. We haven't found any other kids our father might have had the traditional way. So we've had to build a family tree from the names of our second and third cousins using whatever little details they've shared with us, plus names in obituaries and maiden names from census records. Eventually, that allowed us to identify with certainty one branch of the family that I followed all the way to Ireland, where we visited the very place where they lived. So you say that all cases are solvable?

[Ryan McNally]

Yes.

[Matt Katz]

So you think you're going to be able to find the identity of my father?

[Ryan McNally]

I think together we are going to find it.

[Matt Katz]

Fantastic.

[Ryan McNally]

I really do.

[Matt Katz]

I think this is going to happen. I mean, I'm not saying he's alive. I'm not saying we're going to meet him, but I think just getting that name Definitively, I feel like is going to happen.

[Ryan McNally]

I think so too. I think you're going to get there. Part of it's about motivation and part of it's, you know, about interest motivation.

[Matt Katz]

Look at all this. Look at all this shit I've done. All these family trees. I'm motivated. I show Christina the several family trees I've drawn out and tacked to the little sound booth on my desk where I do my recordings. Drawn out here are distant cousins and long ago ancestors and lots of blank spaces that have yet to be filled in. I've been doing research on and off nights and weekends for years. My sister Helena has been doing even more research. But there have been so many dead ends in our search for our Irish doctor dad. I've searched online for NYU Medical center newsletters and publications from that era. Haven't found anything. I've done open ended Google searches for OBGYNs with Irish sounding names. You know, anytime I find a new last name in my tree on the DNA sites, I look to see if those names are now OBGYN somewhere in America. I just google the name with Dr. In front of it. Days before I first speak to Christina, I finally unlock a new part of the puzzle. I've connected on the DNA sites with enough cousins that I can now name all four of our Irish great grandparents. Several of these descendants from multiple branches emigrated from County Cork, Ireland and settled in San Francisco. It's a city I'd always dreamed of living in after I went there on a family vacation when I was little. When I graduated college, the first newspapers I applied for a job were in San Francisco. It wasn't meant to be. I spelled San Francisco wrong in the job applications, which is sort of a red flag if you're hiring a journalist. We've identified who. We're pretty confident based on all of the distant cousin DNA connections we've made, that our great great grandparents were Michael lynch and Mary Ellen Murphy, born in the 1830s. They're at the top of my trees here. So we've got them.

[Ryan McNally]

But they had 10 kids and those 10 kids had 10 kids. And then you gotta go wading through all these people.

[Matt Katz]

Exactly. And I've, we've done it, we've gone down a lot of these lines and you know, then you have the issue with the women and they change their names. Right. So like, it gets even harder and harder. I tell Christina everything about our research into the lynch family and who of their descendants might have ended up in medical training in New York in the 70s. One lynch son Jeremiah immigrated to the US he had nine kids, according to his obituary, with his wife, Hannah Carey, they settled in San Francisco. One of their kids became a cop, but one of Jeremiah's descendants became a doctor. So that doctor had become a contender to be our father. For like a year, we thought he could be our father. But once more DNA connections came in, it was clear not all of his close relatives were our close relatives. It didn't check out. So now we had a new theory. Months earlier, my half siblings and I had spent a weekend together in Southern California. It was fun as hell. And I did that little interview with my sisters in the lobby of the hotel. That's when Helena had told us about her latest lead.

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I haven't narrowed down to two people, but I feel like there's something weird. I feel like there's some. I want to have more information before we reach out to these. Whereas, like, the other guy was like, yeah, write a letter, whatever. These people, you know, I feel weird. I feel something's off. And which people? The people that I narrowed it down to, this family of these two brothers. And the other thing is, neither of them are doctors. And I can't figure out how it's possible because from what I can tell, neither are doctors and neither have ever lived in New York City. The one guy has lived around New York City, like, a lot, but he's not a fucking doctor.

[Matt Katz]

So we don't think he only used documents.

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I know, but then what is the story? Like, why this random bloke?

[Matt Katz]

The random bloke she's talking about, his name, Vincent McNally. He would have been 41 at the time I was conceived, which is much older than sperm donors are generally supposed to be. He was also not in medical training in the 70s, as far as we can tell, because if he had become a doctor, we would have been able to find him online. And we also had nothing to indicate he lived in New York at the time. He would have donated. So the other possibility, Vincent's brother Joseph, but he was even older and married with kids at the time, which is not the typical profile of a sperm donor. My sister Helena had zeroed in on this family because we had a lot of DNA connections. Vincent and Joseph's grandmother Ellie had actually lived in that home I dragged my family to in Ireland. The town historian, Mr. Lehan, had remembered Ellie from when he was a little boy. Ellie lynch was back here about a mile back.

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[Matt Katz]

There was a family lynch there. He had told me that most of Ellie's kids left Ireland for America or England. And one daughter, Maggie, moved to San Francisco, married, and became the mother of Vincent and Joseph. But neither of those men appeared to have become doctors. It didn't make sense. I asked Christina about the whole not a doctor thing.

[Ryan McNally]

You know, I know there was a lot of literature historically about people using med students and interns and that kind of stuff, but I do have to say that I believe, based on other cases and things that I've worked on, that not all donors were medical students and not all of them were interns. Some of them were just available. So you keep sort of like, oh, is any of them in med school? Blah, blah, like, you got to open it wide open because you have no idea. But I do believe that there is nothing more important for you to be doing right now than what you're doing. I think it's really cool. I think it takes a lot for people to invest in something like this and to have that curiosity tells me a lot about you. I just am meeting you in any way that I can help you get to that finish line. I absolutely will. I think that again, the battles and the ups and downs that you're going to have, you're going to have them, but it's really cool. I just think. I just really wanted to tell you that.

[Matt Katz]

Thank you, Christine. I really appreciate that you have the. You have obviously the right background and experience to make sense of this. You know, I'm a journalist. I'm investigative reporter. I like, know how to do some things like track people down.

[Ryan McNally]

It always another set of eyes or another set of questions is always helpful.

[Matt Katz]

Christina said she would analyze my DNA connections and look for people to contact relatives who might act as advocates for me. Cousins who would ask some questions in their family. An inside source to solve this puzzle to try to figure out which male member of the family might have been in New York donating sperm in the 70s.

[Ryan McNally]

You want the family gossip? That's sort of where I come in. Because I will use social media or Facebook and I'll start, like, poking around, look at people's friends lists and try to find things. It might be difficult, you know, it might take time, but it also could be literally staring us right in the face. Because what they say about DNA, it's like real estate. Location, location, location, who was there. And when I think when people have the answers, it tells them a lot about themselves and it answers a lot of questions. Like, I think when you find who your father is, you're gonna go, ah, okay, now it makes sense. Like you're gonna see parts of yourself, not necessarily personal. You'll see it'll be something. You're gonna be like, whoa. You'll get there. I feel good.

[Matt Katz]

I feel good that my story's in your hands, Christina.

[Ryan McNally]

Awesome. Good. All right. Well, we'll do the best. What makes a leader?

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[Ryan McNally]

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[Matt Katz]

Five days after my first conversation with DNA sleuth Christina, she sent me a message. She said we should get on the phone.

[Ryan McNally]

Hi, how are ya?

[Matt Katz]

I am great. I was excited to hear that you wanted to chat.

[Ryan McNally]

So I looked at all of your DNA matches and I understand where you got some. Stopped because your DNA took me to two brothers who were born in the 30s that seemed too old for them to be sperm donors in your opinion.

[Matt Katz]

Right.

[Ryan McNally]

But you know, looking at a photo of Vincent McNally and of course he's related to you. In what way, we don't know, but the resemblance to you is striking to me.

[Matt Katz]

Really?

[Ryan McNally]

Yes. I'm just gonna text it to you. I could do that.

[Matt Katz]

Okay. Christina's photo popped up on my phone. It was A black and white headshot. A yearbook photo. The boy had blonde hair, combed up, shirt buttoned to the top, no tie. I mean, he looks like a blonder, slightly more handsome version of me in high school. He really does.

[Ryan McNally]

He definitely looks Irish. He looks like. He looks a lot like you to me.

[Matt Katz]

Yeah, he really does. I mean, he has the same.

[Ryan McNally]

His eyes.

[Matt Katz]

The eyes. They like the narrow eyes there.

[Ryan McNally]

Yeah. So I have another picture, too, I want you to see. It's the same person. It's still Vincent. Here comes this one. It's the same. It's a couple years different.

[Matt Katz]

The same high school. Yeah. A couple years later. Wow.

[Ryan McNally]

What do you think?

[Matt Katz]

Yeah, he has, like, better hair, but it looks like. Yeah, it looks like me. It does for sure. No, that was weird. I just. I sort of, like.

[Ryan McNally]

I know.

[Matt Katz]

Smiled a little bit, like an open mouth smile, and then looked away and then looked back at the photo. And I. I swear to God, for a split second, I thought in looking at his mouth, that it was my mouth, like, almost as if I was looking in the mirror.

[Ryan McNally]

So of course you're gonna look like him because he's either your biological father or like your uncle. Right, Right. Or he could be your grandfather if he has a son.

[Matt Katz]

Got it.

[Ryan McNally]

And his son was a donor. I can't find any. I can't find marriage for him. I can't find anything for him. So I think that was his senior class photo. That's why I asked you to send me a photo of you with your glasses off, because I wanted to see if your eye shape was similar, which it really is to me. You look a lot like him. You look a lot like him because you're related to him. Yes, we know you are.

[Matt Katz]

Right.

[Ryan McNally]

So there's no question you look Irish.

[Matt Katz]

Right.

[Ryan McNally]

You've got strong McNally genes. You really do.

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Wow.

[Matt Katz]

I mean, I also look like my mother, oddly enough, but I clearly look Irish.

[Ryan McNally]

The shape of your eyes.

[Matt Katz]

Yes.

[Ryan McNally]

Is really like his a lot. But so are your sisters. Their eyes sort of do that on the outside. They go down a little bit.

[Matt Katz]

He looks mischievous. Mischievous?

[Ryan McNally]

Is that the word? Mischievous?

[Matt Katz]

He's like out of a. He looks like he's friends with Biff and Back to the future. Vincent McNally went to Catholic high school in San Francisco. I wanted to believe I was staring back at my father, but I wasn't so sure.

[Ryan McNally]

So this is the point where I tell people that they need to start sort of poking around. Right. So it is Stina.

[Matt Katz]

I've been poking around for Five years.

[Ryan McNally]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, we're going in deeper, right? So when I say poking around, we have to find the perfect person, the perfect person in this sort of menagerie of people that you can tiptoe into.

[Matt Katz]

We have to tiptoe, because while I'm full steam ahead and can't wait to know the truth to get these answers, maybe his family doesn't get that or feel the same way. It could be just one wrong turn, one rejection, one ignored email. To make this whole thing stall out, Christina says we'll have to word our outreach very carefully. We don't want to scare anyone off. I shouldn't go in like, hey, been researching my paternal history for my entire life, and I finally figured out who my father is, and I'm making a podcast about it, and I need you to tell me immediately if he's my dad. Should I not do that?

[Ryan McNally]

No, you should not. See, the beauty.

[Matt Katz]

Yeah.

[Ryan McNally]

Of this whole process is you gotta get a fish on the line. You gotta get a fish on the line where they get even remotely invested enough where they're like, oh, we got. I want to figure this out. Days later, we got a fish on the line. We've got a potential cousin or niece who's living in Las Vegas. So she has not done DNA, which is. I have not seen a connection to her by DNA.

[Matt Katz]

Right.

[Ryan McNally]

I found a family tree that she made of the family on Ancestry. And so I was able to message her and she responded, and she responded quickly and multiple times. I already love her because some people really shut down when you start asking questions, but I love that people understand that it just doesn't matter. If you have to, like, share information, that's maybe not the greatest information.

[Matt Katz]

Right.

[Ryan McNally]

It does seem like there is some estrangement within the family, and I don't know the reason for that.

[Matt Katz]

This potential cousin or niece in Las Vegas did more than share a few stories, sad and otherwise, about the family history history and explain who was who. She also graciously agreed to take a DNA test. I shipped her a kit from Ancestry.com and waited for the results. Her grandfather was Joseph McNally, Vincent's older brother. Joseph passed away years ago, and she didn't know Vincent, didn't know where he was, didn't have his contact info. So in the meantime, we had to keep fishing. After few more leads went nowhere, Christina zeroed in on the family of Vincent's nephew. I bought a LinkedIn Premium account, the fancy kind where you can contact anyone to send Some guy named Ryan McNally. Vincent's nephew's possible son. A direct message to ask if he was my cousin, but no reply. It just says, you haven't received a response yet.

[Ad]

Okay.

[Matt Katz]

You might as well have just said, you have no father.

[Ryan McNally]

You're an orphan.

[Matt Katz]

Thanks a lot, LinkedIn. It wasn't LinkedIn's fault. Christina soon figured out that the person we were looking for was not a nephew, but a niece. A woman. A female Ryan. I'd contacted the wrong one. Christina told me to send this Ryan a note on Facebook.

[Ryan McNally]

I want to know it's been sent because I want to make sure you don't get scared and get nervous. You got to do this, man.

[Matt Katz]

Not scared to send the email, scared to make the phone call.

[Ryan McNally]

Yeah, that's kind of scary.

[Matt Katz]

Yes.

[Ryan McNally]

Yeah, it's a little intimidating.

[Matt Katz]

Fortunately, Ryan replied to my message, and not only that, she seemed excited to help. She said it certainly seemed like we were related. And she promised to talk to her father and grandmother to figure out how. And holy crap, that's exactly what she did. Ryan McNally sent me a message on Facebook that took me a week to even see. I got lost in my inbox somehow, but when I finally read it, it rocked me. I called my wife immediately. She was down the hall in the guest room, recuperating.

[Ad]

Hello?

[Matt Katz]

Hi, babe. I know you have Covid. I have to tell you something. So the cousin that I been trying to talk to, I went back to my Facebook to, like, just check on what she had already told me, and I missed a message from her from a week ago.

[Ad]

Oh, really?

[Matt Katz]

I mean, I. I would do this in person, but. You have Covid. She wrote. Matt, I spoke in depth about your story to my father. He contacted my grandmother, who is now 90, late wife of Joseph Michael McNally. She confirmed that Vincent McNally is the sperm donor.

[Ad]

Is a sperm donor.

[Matt Katz]

Is the sperm donor. He donated sperm in the 70s. He was a hippie who spent most of his days traveling around the States, but mostly resided in California.

[Ad]

Wow. But he probably was in New York City during that time.

[Matt Katz]

I just wanted to confirm. I believe this is your. It's important to know where one comes from. I have three children, so my thoughts are with you.

[Ad]

Where is Vincent now?

[Matt Katz]

I don't know. I will find out, I guess, as best as I can.

[Ad]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Katz]

Oh, my God.

[Ad]

He looks like you.

[Matt Katz]

He looks like you.

[Ad]

I mean, it's weird he doesn't look like you at the age of you and him from his yearbook photo, but he Looks like you older. Like, you know what I mean? Like, right? Yeah, like his young photo.

[Matt Katz]

I'm kind of shaking. I can't believe we. I. He was like a vagabond who traveled the country and popped into New York and made a bunch of kids and then ended up back in California.

[Ad]

Well, he's probably looking for money.

[Matt Katz]

Holy.

[Ad]

It was a quick way to make some money.

[Matt Katz]

Wow, babe, we. We did it. We found him. We found him. There's so little about him out there, it's wild. My father's name is Vincent McNally. I can now basically say that.

[Ryan McNally]

Wow.

[Matt Katz]

I can't believe.

[Ad]

This is exciting.

[Matt Katz]

Holy fuck.

[Ad]

Wow.

[Matt Katz]

Oh, my God. I can't believe I could have known this a week ago and I missed the message. Facebook. Helena knew this a year ago. She just couldn't find any more information about him.

[Ad]

Oh, my God.

[Ryan McNally]

Holy.

[Ad]

I know. I just hope you guys can catch him. He's an older.

[Matt Katz]

I know. God.

[Ad]

How old is he now?

[Matt Katz]

He's, like, 80s, late 80s.

[Ad]

How do you find this man?

[Matt Katz]

I mean, he must have had an interesting life.

[Ad]

I know.

[Matt Katz]

All right, babe.

[Ad]

All right. I'll talk to you later.

[Matt Katz]

I'm in shock. I'm also, like, so happy. I feel just satisfied knowing this information. I'm looking at a family tree in my office right now. I have five family trees posted. And in the center of one family tree, which has dozens of names, is Vincent McNally, born 1936, and it was him. His grandmother, Ellie La Lynch. I was at her house in Ireland. I mean, I was sniffing around the right place. We were sniffing around the right place. Helena thought a year ago that he was a possibility. To have been searching for this long and to finally have an answer is just exhilarating.

[Ad]

It's kind of like a piece of your puzzle that is very important.

[Matt Katz]

This is Ryan, my new first cousin once removed. The one who gave me the last piece of the puzzle.

[Ad]

Vincent. At some point, like in the 70s, he started, like, moving around a lot, like traveling, coming to New York, doing things, because he was like a rolling stone. He didn't have a family or, you know, anything to keep him somewhere. He definitely did donate.

[Matt Katz]

Ryan didn't know where Vincent was living and wasn't sure if he was still alive. There were no obituaries for him online, which was a good sign. Still, she could help me with what I think most people who don't know a parent want to know, what did they look like? We have his high school photo, and he really. I mean, he looks like us. He really does.

[Ad]

I'm sure. I'm sure. You know, the McNallys have a very distinct face. You know, kind of like the long face. I say.

[Matt Katz]

Yeah, yeah, the long face. Yes, I have the long face.

[Ad]

Yeah, we have, like, in a good way, like, kind of bigger mouths and longer faces. And. Yeah, like, it's real.

[Matt Katz]

Wow.

[Ad]

It's so fascinating.

[Matt Katz]

So three of us were born within two and a half weeks of each other in July of 1978.

[Ad]

Wow.

[Matt Katz]

So we don't know if it was the same, you know, batch. I mean, I don't know how else to describe it. We joke that we're triplets. Half triplets, Yo.

[Ad]

That's crazy.

[Matt Katz]

Isn't it crazy? It's so crazy.

[Ad]

I mean, I'm fascinated, to be honest. I just couldn't believe it because this, to me, is like something I've seen on tv.

[Matt Katz]

Ryan is a mom of three and two of her kids. Her twins don't have contact or a relationship with their father. She said that's part of why she wanted to help me.

[Ad]

You know, we all come from somewhere, and I'm sure I take a lot of emotion to, like, knowing my parents, because I've always been really into that. So I thought it was very important for you to know. And one day my twins will want to know, right?

[Matt Katz]

I empathize with them already. Absolutely.

[Ad]

Yeah. So that's why I want to always find out anything I can for you.

[Matt Katz]

Thank you so much that. I mean, your understanding and empathy through this is so appreciative. You can imagine how, like, it's awkward to contact strangers and say, hey, we're cousins. Can you help me find my father?

[Ad]

I believe in this stuff, you know, and I think it's real, and I think it's so deep.

[Matt Katz]

Yes.

[Ad]

Your roots are your roots. You know, I don't care who raised you. You come from somewhere way down in the sperm on that makes you who you are. Really?

[Matt Katz]

Yeah. I feel like I just need to keep pursuing this and get as many answers as I can get. And maybe, you know, if he's around and willing, you know, meet the guy at some point.

[Ad]

Oh, yeah. I think that would be cool. Like, I'm curious to know what he did for a living, because that would kind of solve a lot of the questions. I don't even know how we would be able to connect with anyone else. He knows. I sympathize with all of it. And there's not. You should never feel awkward or anything, because it is just your story. This is just the first of our combos. We'll be in touch all the time. I'm so happy that you're solving the pieces, so I'm happy to have help.

[Matt Katz]

That Sunday afternoon, 3:00pm Eastern Time, I got the siblings together on a zoom. Look at you, man. Still handsome as ever.

[Ad]

Hey, buddy. You're looking good.

[Matt Katz]

That's Helena, my sister. The professor who's done the bulk of the ancestry research. So far, we're talking to my brother, whose voice we're not using in the show. And of course, also here is Tara, the medium and mystic in California. All right, you know, without further ado, I'll get right to it. I am very confident that we've found our father. I'm just going to do a brief recap. I took some notes so we could do a brief recap. Helena had a hunch about this back in, like, August of last year. So this is. This is where we are. Since then, I gave the full recap. And after that, I read them Ryan's message, word for word. She confirmed that Vincent McNally is the sperm donor.

[Ad]

I called it.

[Matt Katz]

You did?

[Ad]

Wow.

[Matt Katz]

He donated sperm in the 70s. Let me read the rest. He was quote, unquote, she put in quotes. He was a hippie who spent most of his days traveling the States, but mostly resided in California, Tara. I mean, holy shit.

[Ad]

That's what I am. But I. It's so. I had a dream two nights ago about the reason that I moved to California was because it was. Felt safe to me.

[Ryan McNally]

Wow.

[Ad]

It was showing me in the dream that California was like a coming home to safety, which is so crazy.

[Matt Katz]

I mean, just the fact that he was a hippie, Tara in California is just so crazy.

[Ad]

Right. And that's the whole nurture, nature thing. It's like, oh, yeah. It was like in me before I even had experiences.

[Matt Katz]

It just took you a minute to discover it.

[Ad]

At the same time, Tara, before you ever became like, a hippie, you were a type A. Totally, totally working executive type. And all of us are type A. Where did that come from? Yeah, that's what we would. We have to discover with him. Because I bet he's got a more complicated story than just hippie who travels the country.

[Matt Katz]

Right.

[Ad]

Maybe he's like a. Maybe he writes books and he's a. But he's a. Has a pen name and notes, Right?

[Ryan McNally]

Like, ooh.

[Ad]

He definitely is a creative way. That's like.

[Ryan McNally]

Yeah.

[Ad]

Or like, when we do something, we really dig into it. We're like, all in with art. We're all very tenacious and opinionated.

[Matt Katz]

And handsome.

[Ad]

Yeah, there we go. There's just, like. There's like, a general quality that all four of us have that's just, like, really funny. You don't see that all the time with siblings. There's got to be something about his personality, his disposition, that I feel is sort of like, also the link as to why we all seem to have sort of a similar kind of disposition. Maybe learning more, a little bit about him will give us that insight as to, again, where do similarities come into play with all four of us?

[Matt Katz]

On our call, I held up that picture of Vincent in high school. It's a photo that Helena had actually first come across a while back without being sure how exactly he fit into our family tree.

[Ad]

Wait, that's Matt. Wait, hold up, Matt. Let me look at your face. Look at him.

[Matt Katz]

This is. This is the guy. This is Vincent.

[Ad]

It looks like Matt.

[Matt Katz]

I mean, Helena. You. How do you feel? I'm most curious about you at the moment.

[Ad]

Well, I'd be really excited when this is done, because I could use those hours that I spend on ancestry and 23 and back. I'd like to have a healthier hobby.

[Matt Katz]

To get a new hobby.

[Ad]

Yeah. If you add it all up, I've been doing this for how many years now?

[Matt Katz]

Exactly. Are you excited, Tara?

[Ad]

I am excited. I like these details, just. It feels like connecting dots. And the details just help me to understand myself better.

[Matt Katz]

Dots were definitely connecting. I now realized when I had visited my great, great grandfather's home in Ireland. Turned out that my grandmother was raised in the same home before she emigrated to San Francisco and gave birth to our father. There were a million branches we could have, like, gone to Ireland looking at, and we were on the right one.

[Ad]

Wow.

[Matt Katz]

The four of us were finding meaning in everything. Analyzing the little we knew so far about Vincent McNally, I think they referred to him as Vinnie. So he might have gone by Vinnie.

[Ad]

That was the name of my car in high school. Really? You're freaky.

[Matt Katz]

We wondered, why did Vincent Vinnie come to donate in the first place?

[Ad]

It was probably a thing he did to get money. And it was. And maybe he felt that he wanted to do it for some spiritual reason. Who knows why he was doing it? You know, mystery can also be like. I mean, we want some mystery, right? It can be exciting, though. The mystery, right? Who knows what's next with this?

[Matt Katz]

We still knew so little about Vincent McNally. I was searching all Vincent McNallys in the country. I found a retired FBI agent with the same name. Turned out to be the wrong guy. I also found two addresses, both associated with mobile home parks in California. There's no record of him ever being married or having kids the normal way.

[Ad]

Oh, my God, Matt. What is he gonna think of all this? Like, if he never had kids?

[Matt Katz]

You're in your late 80s and you.

[Ad]

Find out you have children, it's gonna be a shocker. You gotta get to the bottom of this. The mystery continues.

[Matt Katz]

So now what? I finally know the name of the man who donated sperm. And that's amazing. I'm reveling in this news. But the reality is I still know almost nothing about him. I have a name, a picture, maybe a state, but where does that get me? Who is this person, really? While I talk to my still sick with COVID wife about it all, she points something out. I guess he's still alive.

[Ad]

I mean, I guess unless he has no contact with his family. If he passes, no one would know. He wouldn't have an Obiwan sanctuary. He wouldn't have maybe a formal. You know what I mean?

[Matt Katz]

I gotta go out there, man.

[Ad]

You guys gotta go to California and hunt him down.

[Matt Katz]

Next time on Inconceivable Truth.

[Ryan McNally]

I do have a phone number for him.

[Matt Katz]

I'd be scared shitless to make that call, though, all the time. Yeah, and this is like a similar kind of call, except it's potentially my father on the other line. Inconceivable Truth is a production of Waveland and Rococo Punch. I'm writer and host Matt Katz. The story editor is Erica Lance. Mixing by James Trout. Emily Forman is our producer. Natalie White is our intern. Our executive producers are Jason Hoke at Waveland and John Peratti and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch. For photos and more details in the series, follow Aveland Media on Instagram X or Facebook. And you can reach out via email at podcastswaveland Media. That's Waveland. W A V L A N D. If you like the series, please leave us a review. And as always, don't forget to tell a friend or relative. I'm Matt Katz. Thanks for listening, guys. So he's your grandfather? We have found him. My father. Your grandfather, Vincent. Where does he live? Northern California, I think. California.

[Ad]

We are just in California.

[Matt Katz]

I know. Can we go back? I mean, you want to meet him? Yes. Can you believe it? Are you excited?

[Ryan McNally]

Yes.

[Matt Katz]

Is he alive? I think he's alive. He was born in 1936, so he would be 42 when he donated sperm to that use.

[Ryan McNally]

Me too.

[Matt Katz]

That's really good. Ruben, you're jumping up and down. It's Vincent McNally. Isn't that guy like super old?

[Ad]

Wow.

[Ryan McNally]

That's really cool, dad.

[Matt Katz]

That's cool, right? I'm so excited.

[Ad]

Who else knows? Does Mommy know?

[Matt Katz]

I told Mommy. Guys, I've been looking for this guy for so long.

[Ad]

I just think that.

[Ryan McNally]

I'm really happy for you, dad.

[Matt Katz]

Thank you, sweetie.

[Ad]

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[Christina Bryan]

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[Ad]

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[Christina Bryan]

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[Matt Katz]

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[Ryan McNally]

And the winner by knockout is Patternay.

[Ad]

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[Christina Bryan]

Bring it on.