← Inconceivable Truth
Inconceivable Truth
Warren | Chapter 1
00:45:27
As a kid, my biological father was in and out of my life. Then, he disappeared entirely. When I finally found him again, it left me with even more questions.
Loading summary
Transcript184 lines
- [00:00]
Ad
Hey, y'all, it's your girl. Ad. You may know me from Love is Blind, but if you think what you saw on the screen was the whole story, yeah, think again. Because on my podcast, what's the reality? I'm breaking everything down from love. I love love and I love my man. Relationships. What advice would you give to women or just people in toxic relationships? Stop romanticizing red flags. Say that one more time. Pop culture and what really goes down when the cameras stop rolling and you already know. I'm not holding back. Do you feel like you wanna tell us what actually happened that night? I'm done protecting where it's sacrificing me, girl. I want to jump through that TV screen.
- [00:44]
Matt Katz
Same.
- [00:45]
Kelly
I watched that back and I was. My jaw was on the floor. I was like, they did me so.
- [00:50]
Ad
Dirty with that edit. So into the group, chat with me Every Wednesday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast, y'all, let's spill this tea together. See you there.
- [01:01]
Kelly
When life brings the blah, add more yabba dabba doo with some tasty fruity Pebbles. Early morning meeting, blah. Someone brought the Pebbles. Yabba dabba doo. Run errands, blah. Head to the store for Pebbles. Yabba dabba doo. Fruity Pebbles. Less blah, more yabba dabba doo. Pick up pebble cereal today. Yabba dabba doo. And the Flintstones and all related characters and elements copyright and trademark Hanna Barbera.
- [01:29]
Richard
Live from the Internet's red carpet, it's Vrbo's 2025 vacation rentals of the Year, our annual showcase of the very best of Vrbo. Selected from over 2 million private vacation rentals, this year's list features breakout hits like a ski in, ski out, mountain chalet and a modern beach compound. With unobstructed ocean views, and with discounts on select stays of one week or longer, these critically acclaimed homes might be more affordable than you'd think. Head over to vrbo.com that's vrbo to check out the official list and make it a ver.
- [01:59]
Kelly
Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market, the online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1000 plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality, organic and sustainable brands, all free of the junk. With savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping. You get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start shopping@thrivemarket.com podcast for 30% off your first order and a free gift.
- [02:30]
Unknown
This podcast is intended for mature audiences.
- [02:34]
Roberta
Listener discretion is advised. You knew how to read an analog clock before anybody else of your age, because he was always late. And you would always look at the clock. You would know he's supposed to come at 2:00. 2:00 came and he didn't come.
- [03:16]
Matt Katz
This might be the saddest thing I've ever heard about myself. I don't remember it exactly, but my mom does. We'd be at home in Queens, and I'd be perched in front of this old grandfather clock, watching the pendulum click back and forth, waiting for a man named Warren to arrive. 11 30. 2, 2 30. But Warren didn't always show up. And when he did, he was very late. This I remember. Is this me right after I was born? Is this like, in the hospital?
- [03:51]
Roberta
Yeah. And that's coming out of the station wagon where they didn't have seatbelts. So you were on my lap in the front seat. In the front seat.
- [04:02]
Matt Katz
Who took this picture?
- [04:04]
Roberta
I guess Warren took it.
- [04:06]
Matt Katz
Warren was the man I had been waiting for. I called him Daddy back then. My mom, Roberta, married Warren in 1973. I arrived five years later, and by the time I was a year and a half, they were split, divorced. There's dozens of pictures. There's no. At least in this batch, there's no pictures of Warren.
- [04:29]
Roberta
I don't have anything.
- [04:30]
Matt Katz
Did you get rid of them? You just threw them out?
- [04:33]
Roberta
Mm. Sorry. I don't know. When I was in a fit of anger.
- [04:39]
Matt Katz
Do you remember?
- [04:40]
Roberta
There were very few to begin with. And I was putting these in an album, and he didn't belong there.
- [04:47]
Matt Katz
This is just his arm.
- [04:48]
Roberta
Oh, I'm brushing your teeth, right? Yeah, I didn't.
- [04:52]
Matt Katz
That's it.
- [04:53]
Roberta
That's it.
- [04:59]
Matt Katz
That's the only picture I have of Warren, ever. A big man, arm coming from outside the frame. We all live together in an apartment that I have no memory of. Then one day, without telling Warren, my mom just left. She moved us out, first to my grandmother's studio apartment where my crib filled the room, and then to an apartment for just me and her. What happened?
- [05:27]
Roberta
We just had lots of fights about gambling and about not telling the truth about things. And I said, that's it. No support. I had no love for him, and I had to get out.
- [05:45]
Matt Katz
He was gambling excessively then.
- [05:48]
Roberta
Like the sneaking, sneakingly gambling? Yeah. I mean, I didn't know until I find that there's no money. And then when I went back to work because I had to. I'm sure you. I think you know this. I get a call the first day at work from a collection agency. I've never had that in my life.
- [06:07]
Warren
And I was.
- [06:09]
Roberta
Talk about being embarrassed at school. And they were going to garnish my salary because I owed so much money, which I had no idea it was, you know, had joined credit cards, so. And I didn't see. See the bills. I did not know. I was busy trying to raise a baby and I did not know about other things that were going on. I kind of thought of a little bit, but I. Every time something came up, I believed him or tried to believe him. And then I just had it. And that's when I left.
- [06:55]
Matt Katz
She was flat broke when she left. Warren had racked up so much debt on their joint credit card and stiffed her on child support. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars that he owed her. 1980s dollars. But a piece of Warren was still a little bit in the picture, coming to see me once in a while, even if he was late. Enough of a presence to loom in my mind as my father, but not enough for me to really know who my father was. And so I wondered and I watched that clock and I waited for the rest of him to come back into the picture. What I didn't know then was that I would spend my life waiting for my father. I'd look for decades. And only after those decades would I understand why something never felt right. That there was a mystery at the heart of who my father really was. And now, after years of tracking down clues, I'm so, so close. I almost have answers from Waveland and Rococo Punch. This is inconceivable truth. I'm Matt K. Episode 1 Warren, does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply. Substance use disorder and addiction is so isolating. And so, as a black woman in recovery, hope must be loud. It grows louder when you ask for help and you're vulnerable. It is the thread that lets you know that no matter what happens, you will be okay. When we learn the power of hope recovery is possible.
- [09:30]
Ad
Find out how@startwithhope.com brought to you by the National Council for Mental well Being, Shatterproof and the AD Council.
- [09:43]
Matt Katz
My name has always been Matt, or Matthew, as my mom called me. But my last name has not always been Cats. And the reason why is all wrapped up in what happened shortly after Warren and Roberta divorced. It's the early 80s queens, and Roberta is a single mom. It's just me and her. So she joins this group for single people with kids, parents without partners. The group was for parents to meet partners, but she says she didn't really go for herself. She thought it'd be good for me to at least be around men, dads. She lost her own father when she was 6, has no memory of him.
- [10:24]
Roberta
I really went for you because there would be parks, there would be baseball, there would be activities, and there would be men. And I thought it would be good for you. So that's why I did that.
- [10:37]
Matt Katz
Wait, was that because you didn't have a father and you wanted.
- [10:42]
Roberta
Yeah, I think.
- [10:43]
Matt Katz
And you were concerned that I wouldn't have. You would go to these things, and then there'd be men for me to, like, throw a ball with or whatever.
- [10:49]
Roberta
Right, Right. Just. Yeah, exactly. Right. But I did go to a couple of dances, which would be for me socially.
- [10:59]
Matt Katz
And she went to these group conversations for single parents called rap discussions.
- [11:04]
Roberta
Not like rap that we talk about today. Okay. You have drinks or coffee and Danish or whatever, and you get to meet other people. Sometimes you meet women for yourself, you know, friends, and you meet potential dating partners.
- [11:20]
Matt Katz
There was a potential dating partner in the room one night. Medium build, medium height, pretty much all of his hair, plus the warmest smile in the world. His name Richard.
- [11:31]
Warren
I'm at this meeting in Queens, and the door opens and your mother walks in. And I said, that's a beautiful woman. And the only seat available was next to me.
- [11:48]
Roberta
Well, first, when I walked in, this was an apartment in Queens, in Forest Hills. And the first thing I did is I walked in and I see these people sitting around, and I'm looking around and I'm saying, A, they're too old, or B, I've dated them. C, I have to get the hell out of here. D, my mother is babysitting. I have a free babysitter. And E, it doesn't look right. I mean, everybody's sitting. A new person comes in, and then she turns on her heels and walks away. It just didn't look right.
- [12:25]
Matt Katz
So when Richard tapped on the empty chair next to Him.
- [12:28]
Warren
She walked over, she sits down, and we start talking. And what I remember of that night is some of the other people were expressing attitudes towards their children and their ex spouses and towards life, which just.
- [12:49]
Roberta
Didn'T resonate with me, whatever the discussion was, because his memory is worse than mine. We do not remember per se, but we were the only ones that were in agreement.
- [13:01]
Warren
And we were sitting there discussing it quietly and laughing like hell. And we had very, very similar outlooks about life. I was lucky enough she gave me her number when I asked, and I made a date.
- [13:17]
Roberta
And then, this shouldn't be for your ears, but he liked my Jordache jeans. I fit into these sexy jeans. And he remembered that. He keeps talking about those jeans that I cannot wear anymore. But between that and the discussion that we had, that's how it started.
- [13:36]
Matt Katz
So you were also, like, shopping for a father for me, right? Well, you got one.
- [13:40]
Roberta
I got one. I did. I did.
- [13:47]
Warren
I was in love from the beginning. I had dated other women after I was divorced, and there was no one that I would want to spend my life with. And we both, we had a sort of an agreement that at our age, two years of dating. Two years is enough time to date. And I made sure before two years came that I said, would you marry me? We were at the house, at your apartment in Queens, and we're having dinner, and I had her go home. And my very, very romantic proposal was, darn it, I can't go home. I want to be with you. I don't want to leave. Would you marry me? Very, very romantic. And she said, I have to think about it. Thankfully, she said yes, and the rest is history. Then, of course, I proposed to you.
- [15:03]
Matt Katz
I remember we were by the river in Brooklyn. I don't know what we were doing in Brooklyn. And then, like, mom walked away to buy me an ice cream or something. And I think that's where you did it.
- [15:17]
Warren
The way you were being brought up by mom and your personality and just, you know, the two of you just, I wanted you part of my life, and I wanted to make sure you wanted me as part of your life. How do you say, I'm moving in? I'm going to be with you as you grow up. I'd ask you, because I know a lot of children resent the spouse of the parent they're living with, and I didn't want that. And I was, at that point, I was already showing you a lot of love. So I asked you, and I think the look on your face is what Is he talking about. But you remembered.
- [16:04]
Matt Katz
I remembered. It's like one of my earliest memories. I think. You basically asked me permission. Is it okay if.
- [16:12]
Warren
Can I marry your mom and become part of your family and it's such.
- [16:18]
Matt Katz
A mensch y thing to do.
- [16:21]
Warren
Mensch or not, I mean, it's like, how do you. I don't see any other way. You had to be part of it.
- [16:31]
Matt Katz
I was definitely part of it. I was the ring bearer at their tiny wedding at a hall off Central park in January 1983, when I was four and a half. And in short order, a move out of the apartment and into a house in Queens with a yard on both sides. And I had a happy childhood there. My mom and Richard both had solid government jobs. He worked at the Food and Drug Administration. She was a New York City public school teacher teaching kids how to read for more than 30 years. So I had a stepfather now. Richard threw a baseball with me, taught me how to ride a bike, told me he loved me. But I also had Warren, my birth father, still fading out and then into that picture. When he did come by and take me out for the day, we'd do things that even I knew. I'm like five, were not normal. We'd sometimes go to the off track betting parlor so we could wager on the horses. I'm standing in a pile of betting slips up to my ankles, a cloud of cigarette smoke hovering over me. One time he took me to a zoo in Queens, a little place more of a petting zoo than anything else. Instead of going to the entrance, he led me off to the side. He lifted the bottom of the fence. He told me to crawl under, and so I did. He then went to the front, paid admission for himself and met me inside. He saved a couple of bucks, I guess. Outside of those experiences, which felt pretty off, my childhood seemed normal. I loved the Mets, Matchbox cars, swings that didn't move all that fast. I had a blonde mop top, hazel eyes, skinny and smiley, and I was probably the shyest little boy in Queens.
- [18:23]
Roberta
You stood behind me because you were so shy with the Kermit the frog puppet. And you were behind me and you just wiggled. The Kermit the frog puppet? Yeah. So you were very shy in some ways. In other ways, at the age of four, I would ask you to go to the candy store to get the Times, Sunday Times, because it wasn't delivered that day or whatever, and you had to wait until somebody was strong enough to open up the drawer because you couldn't open the door. But you got the paper.
- [18:54]
Matt Katz
I really wanted to read the Week in Review.
- [18:58]
Roberta
Oh, sure.
- [19:01]
Matt Katz
That shy kid who bravely waddled into the candy store to grab my mom's newspaper was also holding on to an inner thought of sorts. I didn't talk about this with anyone, but I remember sort of obsessing over Warren. Like, what was his deal? Why was he such a dick? But those questions about who my father was, turns out I wasn't asking the right thing at all. I mean, 20 years I've now worked as a reporter in newspapers, radio out there, pen and pad, recorder, the whole thing, asking people questions. Joining us now is Matt Katz. Matt Katz, and thank you again for being here.
- [19:46]
Unknown
Public safety reporter Matt Katz. Hey, Matt.
- [19:48]
Matt Katz
Hey. Good morning, Michael. I've asked questions to politicians and police chiefs. I once asked questions to nudists at a nudist colony in New Jersey. Turned into a front page story during the US War in Afghanistan. I embedded with the military to ask questions about what in the world was happening over there. But now I'm working on the hardest story I've ever worked on, and it's about my father or fathers. And it's a story I got started on almost 40 years ago when I was a little kid. My question, first and foremost, what's the truth about my father? My second question sounds ridiculous, but if you stick with me, I promise it will make sense. How did I come to exist? Foreign. When I was born, we all lived in the Bronx. Warren had a variety of jobs, from toll collector to cab driver. His most steady work seemed to be as a funeral director teacher. He taught a class for people who were trying to get their funeral director licenses. I saw him, even at a young age, as interesting, maybe because his lack of consistent presence made him mysterious. He was tall, or he seemed tall to me, bald, with a pot belly and a dark goatee. He talked to me about sports, took me to the good chocolate chip cookie shop in Manhattan. The one and only time I went to his apartment, there were dirty dishes in the sink, something that didn't happen in the house I grew up in. Dishes in my father's sink seemed reckless, but maybe kind of cool. He seemed to have access to a world very different from my own that seemed darker, more intriguing. He had this diner that he'd go to. They'd open up early for him and the other regulars so they could all sit there and chain smoke and read the New York Post. He was there every morning. Meanwhile, though, I didn't even have his phone number. After a Visit. I never knew when I'd see him again.
- [21:59]
Warren
Right. And that wasn't our doing. That was his doing. He would. He would make arrangements and then cancel them.
- [22:07]
Matt Katz
Like arrangements to pick me up?
- [22:08]
Warren
Yeah. And since we never knew where he lived, we weren't too happy with that.
- [22:17]
Matt Katz
Like, you never had his address?
- [22:19]
Warren
No, he wouldn't give it to us.
- [22:21]
Roberta
And he didn't like me asking him where he was taking you. And I had a right to know where you were, you know. And then I said to him, I have to know where you are. I have to know. Have to be able to contact you. He didn't like that. A couple of times we followed him because I was worried about that he was going to abduct you. I was really very scared about that because I didn't know where he was living.
- [22:49]
Matt Katz
So my mom is scared he's going to abduct me. But the final straw for me, as Richard remembers it, was how he didn't send me promised birthday gifts. Richard remembers that Warren was supposed to come by and give me a remote controlled car. I love those things.
- [23:06]
Warren
And then called up and canceled because he didn't have the money to buy it because he gambled it away.
- [23:12]
Matt Katz
Oh, wow.
- [23:13]
Warren
I think.
- [23:14]
Matt Katz
And so that's what I was really pissed about.
- [23:16]
Warren
That's what you. That he lied to you. You know, you finally figured out the man is a liar, and you have a huge sense of truthfulness.
- [23:30]
Matt Katz
This was all starting to feel not right to me. This relationship with a father who wouldn't give me birthday presents or tell me where he lived. And as loving and full as my home life was Warren's inconsistent presence in my life. The fact that I was watching that damp clock. I was sad about it and I kept it in. I'd open a phone book, sometimes, secretly look up his name, see if I could find him. It was frustrating. I started to be like, fuck this. I asked my mom if I could change my last name from Warren's last name to Katz, which was Richard and my mom's new last name. I had no siblings with Warren's last name, no close relatives. I wanted to be a Katz. December 15, 1985, I changed my last name. Do you remember how that came about?
- [24:26]
Warren
Yes. You asked me because you would go to school and your parents name was Katz and yours wasn't. And you felt, can I have your name? I suppose you were thinking, you're part of my family, I should have the same name.
- [24:45]
Matt Katz
Yeah. Like I didn't have anybody else who was very present in My world with that last name. So it felt lonely and awkward. Yeah, but when Warren called, I still called him Daddy. Maybe I thought changing my last name would scare him straight, force him to play that father role. But it didn't. Did the opposite. He was pissed about the name change, and he told me so. He drove over one day in his red station wagon.
- [25:13]
Warren
I remember he came over and went out to the car with you, had you out in the car and was sort of screaming because he was sure that we had instigated you to want the name change. He didn't realize he had instigated you to want the name change because he lied to you and you didn't want to even know him.
- [25:39]
Matt Katz
I mean, I did want to know him, but I didn't really know him because I would see him so irregularly. Something else was happening. I think I started to internalize this tension between my parents, an awareness that my father, Warren, was also hurting my mother. I remember the look on her face, the way she'd literally bite her tongue when she talked to him whenever she tried to schedule a visit or get money he owed her. And so one night, he called when my mom and Richard were out. My grandmother Gam lived with us and was hanging out downstairs, watching her stories. I answered the phone. It was him. I was 8, I think. And I was upset. Why hadn't he called? Why didn't I have his phone number? Where was he? Who was he? I told him. And I remember this so well that I was going to sic the FBI on him. I don't know. It was the 80s. Me and my friends used to play a spy game called KGB versus FBI. And I wanted him investigated, not for a crime, but so I could understand why he was the way he was. Warren hung up on me. He didn't call again.
- [27:18]
Richard
Live from the Internet's red carpet, it's Vrbo's 2025 vacation rentals of the Year, our annual showcase of the very best of Vrbo. Selected from over 2 million private vacation rentals, this year's list features breakout hits like a ski in, ski out, mountain chalet and a modern beach compound. With unobstructed ocean views. And with discounts on select stays of one week or longer, these critically acclaimed homes might be more affordable than you'd think. Head over to vrbo.com, that's vrbo, to check out the official list and make it a vrbo.
- [27:47]
Kelly
Worried about what ingredients are hiding in your groceries? Let us take the guesswork out. We're Thrive Market the Online grocery store with the highest quality standards in the industry. We restrict 1,000 thousand plus ingredients so you can trust that you'll only find the best high quality organic and sustainable brands. All free of the junk. With savings up to 30% off and fast carbon neutral shipping. You get top trusted groceries at your door and you can stop worrying about what your kids get their hands on. Start shopping@thrivemarket.com podcast for 30 off your first order and a free gift.
- [28:26]
Matt Katz
When I was nine years old, with months and months of no contact whatsoever from Warren, I remember my mom saying to me if something happened to her, if she died, then I'd end up moving in with Warren, my biological father, instead of Richard, my stepdad. Warren would have custody. He'd be responsible for me, he'd be my only parent. She told me, this guy, you don't even know where he lives, what his phone number is, he'd be responsible for taking care of you. There was a solution though. She told me if Richard adopts you, he would take care of you. He'd be with you always.
- [29:07]
Warren
I wanted you as my kid legally and legally that he couldn't come back and ask for something else. Joint custody for instance. He didn't earn having you as his son. I did. I worked at earning that because you were worth it and I wanted that.
- [29:37]
Matt Katz
And so I agreed. We took things to the next level, symbolically and officially. I took the day off from school, got on a tie and went before a judge in a conference room. Legal paperwork notifying Warren about the pending adoption had been sent to my grandparents house in California, the only address we had to reach him. But Warren made no formal objection. His mother later told me they threw the envelope in the trash without opening it. And so the judge signed off on the adoption. A new birth certificate was issued. Gone was Warren. Richard Katz was Matthew Katz's father. And so I gained a father, but also grandparents. Richard's parents, Nathaniel and Ethel Katz, and an aunt and uncle and my first first cousins. And the best part, I got siblings which as an only child I'd always wanted. Richard had two daughters from his first marriage, Sarah and Sally. They were eight and 12 years older than me, already off to college. We didn't live together, but I still saw them as my sisters.
- [30:46]
Warren
You are my child, as Sarah and Sally were my children. And you get equal share of that love.
- [30:57]
Matt Katz
I appreciate that. I feel all of that. A couple of Years later, in 1990, we left Queens and moved a mile and a half, but a world away from Queens, a borough of New York City to Great Neck, one of the most affluent towns in the country. A quintessential Long island suburb. I still pronounce it with two syllables. Long Island. Do you remember when did we start hanging out?
- [31:23]
Ilan
I think we were forced to.
- [31:24]
Matt Katz
I lived across the street in Grey Neck. Everyone's parents seemed to still be married, and no one's mom seemed to work. I was petrified to start school there. It was middle school, sixth through eighth, and I was coming in seventh grade. Everyone was going to have more expensive sneakers, and I knew no one. But there was a boy who lived across the street from my new house. His name was Ilan. I remember being very excited because you were smaller than me briefly.
- [31:51]
Ilan
I remember being excited because you had a catcher's mitt, which was very strange for a Jewish boy to play catcher, because usually catchers are kind of big, big guys. So you were not.
- [32:01]
Matt Katz
I was not.
- [32:02]
Ilan
You were friendly. You were approachable. You were into music. You. I mean, this is appropriate time to talk about Billy Joel.
- [32:08]
Matt Katz
You could see Billy Joel from your window.
- [32:10]
Ilan
I could. So basically, you had a cardboard cutout of Billy Joel I think you took from, like, a CD store. It was a life size, and it was meant to, I think, hold albums on it. Like, you know, they had whatever. The latest Billy Joel album, you would stack it on there. That's what it was used for in the store. Somehow you got into your house, which also was cool. Like, how did you do that? My mom was like, what are you talking about? We're not bringing that junk to her house. There's no way that would have been in my mother's car. And then onto my room.
- [32:34]
Roberta
Room.
- [32:35]
Ilan
But somehow you got that to your house.
- [32:37]
Matt Katz
Yeah.
- [32:37]
Ilan
And it was in your window. And it was constantly staring at me, which was creepy because I didn't know if you were looking at me or it was Billy Joel, right? Yeah. We used to talk on walkie talkies. Do you remember that?
- [32:49]
Matt Katz
We used to flash our lights and that would sing.
- [32:53]
Ilan
Our rooms faced each other on the street. So if I wanted to talk to you, I'd flash my lights, but I.
- [32:58]
Matt Katz
Would have to have been looking out the window.
- [33:01]
Ilan
But I always thought you were looking at me because there's Billy Jones. I'm like, oh, there is Matt. Let's flash the lights. He's not answering, you know, and then we turn on the walkie talkie, which was a little ridiculous because we also had phones.
- [33:11]
Matt Katz
We did have phones. We also had phones.
- [33:13]
Ilan
We had phones in a room. I don't know why we thought walkie talkie was maybe was safer.
- [33:19]
Matt Katz
Do you remember me talking about my then birth father?
- [33:24]
Ilan
So, okay, I've been thinking about this. I find it very interesting that you still to this day say he's your birth father.
- [33:32]
Matt Katz
There's no word in the English language to describe this person, but that's how.
- [33:36]
Ilan
You always refer to him, as your birth father. And you know a lot more now than you did.
- [33:40]
Matt Katz
But yeah, or I would call him bio dad. Yeah.
- [33:44]
Ilan
Well, I remember you at some point when you were about 16, 17. You're like, I want to find my birth father.
- [33:49]
Matt Katz
I hadn't heard from Warren since that time. He hung up on me when I was 8. But I never stopped thinking about him, wondering about him and wanting to find him again. It was something I had to broach with my mom and Richard. I think they supported it, but maybe didn't understand why I needed to go and find this deadbeat.
- [34:13]
Ilan
I think they had. They understood why you wanted to do it as part of your whole life. Actually, not your whole life, but a large part of your life, starting from middle school onwards, has been about what's my identity, who am I? And a large part of your identity is who's my birth father, who's my father? I mean, clearly Richard's your father. I mean, he basically helped raise you, but who are you? And that's for a lot of people. They knew who they are from their kids. I knew who I was. My dad was my dad. My mom was my mom. I grew up in Great Neck. I'm going to be a doctor. I was a doctor. Okay? That's who I am. You, you're constantly like a chameleon. You're always changing, who's my father? That.
- [34:56]
Matt Katz
That.
- [34:56]
Ilan
Who's my father? For you changed basically every decade for you. You never really knew who your father was.
- [35:02]
Matt Katz
Right? And I was drawn to the search for him for some reason. I made friends quickly in Great Neck. This was pre Internet, so when I wasn't on the walkie talkie with Elon, I was on the phone talking with friends. Friends like Kelly.
- [35:22]
Unknown
We would like, listen to Billy Joel and you'd fall asleep, like in the wee hours, we'd be on the phone. You'd go to sleep on the phone with me. We'd be like listening to Billy Joel.
- [35:33]
Matt Katz
Oh, my God.
- [35:34]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [35:36]
Warren
Yeah.
- [35:36]
Matt Katz
I remember being on the phone silent.
- [35:40]
Unknown
Yeah, like we would just be on the phone, quiet, sleeping, whatever. Yeah. It was like having a sleepover junior.
- [35:48]
Matt Katz
Year in high school. Kelly would end up playing this Key role in what would become really a lifelong search for my father. Kelly and I talked about music and sex and girls and boys and teachers and parents. We talked, like, in a deep, you know, high school, but still in a deep way. And about, like, for hours. For hours? Yeah.
- [36:09]
Unknown
Hours and hours. Yeah.
- [36:11]
Matt Katz
I remember you divulging, like, serious to me.
- [36:15]
Unknown
Yeah. You can say stuff.
- [36:19]
Roberta
I'm.
- [36:19]
Unknown
I'm curious what I divulged.
- [36:21]
Matt Katz
Yeah. Are you curious?
- [36:22]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [36:23]
Matt Katz
I mean, I know it's fine, but, like. Like, eating issues.
- [36:29]
Roberta
Yeah.
- [36:29]
Matt Katz
And I, you know, that was, like.
- [36:31]
Unknown
Yeah. New to me, obviously, so much with that. I mean, so many.
- [36:35]
Matt Katz
Like, I remember talking to you before, like, in the throes of those experiences.
- [36:41]
Unknown
Yeah. Wow.
- [36:43]
Matt Katz
I remember feeling being, like, heavy.
- [36:45]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [36:46]
Matt Katz
Because I didn't know what the. To say.
- [36:48]
Unknown
You're the trusted guy for girls to talk to.
- [36:51]
Warren
Yeah.
- [36:52]
Matt Katz
And there were, like, friendships that I had with these girls in high school that were, you know, deep and, like, meaningful.
- [37:02]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [37:03]
Matt Katz
And probably, I guess, I don't know, life changing. I mean, life forming. Like, they, you know, make me as a person.
- [37:11]
Unknown
Yeah. It gives you an understanding of what women go through and. Yeah. But, like, you were just, like, fun loving and light, which is interesting because you had a lot of thought stuff, you know, family and that kind of thing. But I just remember you, like, smiling a lot and just being happy.
- [37:43]
Matt Katz
One of the things I would talk about with Kelly was Warren. I was getting to the point where I just couldn't hold it in anymore. I didn't know why he had cut me out of his life. Like this junior year, I was playing Cats in the Cradle on the piano. You know, the song, you sing it, but it's about, you know, fathers and sons, obviously. So my mom was sitting there on the couch, and she was listening and reading the paper or something, and I asked her, do you ever wonder where Warren is, my birth father? She's like, I do. She's like, I have his brother's phone number in California if you wanted to, you know, try to reach him through. Through his brother. So as I remember, it was a few weeks after that I went to junior prom. Came home from the junior prom, and I called the number because it was like, three hours earlier.
- [38:39]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [38:40]
Matt Katz
And it was disconnected. And then I called 41 1, like the operator, old school, you know.
- [38:45]
Roberta
Yeah.
- [38:46]
Matt Katz
They gave me the phone number, and. And a woman answered. Turned out she was my new aunt. They had, in the intervening years, married, and she seemed confused that I had no contact with my birth father because he had Been telling his family that he was in contact with me and that my mom wouldn't let me see the rest of the family. But no, I was into math, which was bullshit. I wanted to go to the University of Michigan. Like he made up all this nonsense. Later that night, after midnight on the east coast, my Uncle Mitch called me. He was really nice, but there was this disconnect. He didn't seem to understand what I was saying. That I had not seen Warren since I was 8 years old. Warren had been telling his family all of these fabricated stories about me and my life. I tried to tell Mitch, Warren doesn't know anything about me because I haven't spoken to him since I was a little boy. Mitch said, well, we haven't seen you because your mom hasn't let us. I'm like, I don't even have Warren's phone number. And that's why I'm calling. Can I have his number? Sorry. Mitch said, I can't do that. But I can ask him to call. You won't give me his phone number. Why all the secrecy? Why all the hiding? I'm his son. Can I have my father's phone number? But I didn't have a choice. If I wanted to get in touch with Warren, I had to do it his way. So gave him my phone number. And I had my own line, my own answering machine. So I feel like there might have been a couple of like hang ups on the answering machine over the next couple of days when I wasn't home. And I was like, is that him? And then I picked up one day and this man on the other side of the line says, it's Warren. What do you want? And I had a very terrible first conversation with him. Like I. I remember immediately after it, not even remembering everything that happened. I know he talked about my grandmother, my mom's mom, who I was close with before she died. And I know he was like, obnoxious and skeptical about what I wanted. And he owed my mom so much money in child support that he, I'm sure he. That was wrapped up in his reaction, but it was terrible. And I must have then talked to you about it because he kept calling. And eventually we started talking about lighter things, like specifically like baseball. And we could have like a normal conversation. And then we made a plan to meet. Turned out Warren lived in Queens, not even a 15 minute drive away from my house. We decided to meet at a Bennigan's restaurant. He told me what he'd be wearing so I could recognize him. It Was the spring of 1994. I didn't have my driver's license yet, but Kelly did. And I most definitely didn't want my mom to drive me to see him. I mean, too awkward. So Kelly drove me over. Did you wait in the car? You must have.
- [42:27]
Unknown
I must have, because we didn't have cell phones.
- [42:30]
Matt Katz
It's amazing. You would have waited in the car. It's, like, amazing. You did that. Well, thank you.
- [42:37]
Unknown
You're welcome.
- [42:39]
Matt Katz
It's so sweet.
- [42:40]
Unknown
Yeah. But you were like, my. We were really close.
- [42:43]
Matt Katz
Yeah.
- [42:44]
Unknown
You know, and this was a big deal, so it wasn't like some little thing.
- [42:48]
Matt Katz
I mean, I remember walking up and he was there. He was smoking a Marlboro Light 100, and he was wearing a Members only jacket. And I know we didn't hug. I think it's possible we shook hands. But I actually think I remember being strange because we kind of said hello, and then he turned and started walking to the door. And then we walked into the restaurant. Like, I don't know if there was any physical contact when we first saw each other. Maybe a handshake, but no hug. Isn't that weird? Can you imagine not seeing your child for eight years and not hugging them?
- [43:27]
Unknown
I mean, in order to not see your child for eight years, you gotta be pretty, well, disconnected from everything.
- [43:35]
Matt Katz
Right. But then we had a pretty good meal.
- [43:38]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [43:40]
Matt Katz
Like, it was not. I don't remember being any, like, drama or tension, really. And then I think he gave me a little money. And then I felt some degree of, like, closure and completion afterwards, which is.
- [43:59]
Unknown
Probably why that's what I saw from you. Was that.
- [44:05]
Matt Katz
Yeah.
- [44:06]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [44:07]
Matt Katz
That was probably what was on my face when I was walking back to the car. Yep.
- [44:11]
Unknown
Like a million pounds of, you know, of weight release. Just relief, you know, and, like, you looked happy.
- [44:28]
Matt Katz
So for the next several years, we had a. Okay relationship. He flew me out to California to meet or reunite with my grandparents and my uncle and new aunt and two first cousins. And had a pretty good trip, as I remember it. And then I would see him occasionally. I had his phone number. He would call me. We had a regular phone interaction. He visited me in college once. I was living in a fraternity house. It was like the morning after a party. And I remember not having to worry about the crushed Natty Light cans all over the place because it was like a judgment free situation with him because the bar was so low in terms of how he was as a father that I never. In a way, it was a lot less pressure hanging out with him than my parents, who I wanted to live up to the standard they held for me because they were actual parents. Yes. And we went to brunch and I bumped a cigarette from him. And then on the way back, he bought me a pack. Oh, my God. And then he says to me, do you ever wonder why all of your negative qualities you seem to get from me? And I'm like, I do wonder that, actually. Because he was unlike my mother and Richard. He had an edge about him. He lived off the grid. He was shady. He had a way with, like, strangers. Like, he'd be the guy, like, sitting next to on a bus stop who could, like, chat you up and you'd be like, charmed. But also, like, he, you know, he was somebody who.
- [46:29]
Unknown
He was like a bad boy.
- [46:31]
Matt Katz
He was like, yeah, he's like a bad boy. And so obviously at 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, I, like, related, you know, I connected with that. There was still plenty of shady shit. If I met him at a restaurant, I might give him a ride home afterward. But he'd have me drop him off at the end of his block so I wouldn't know his address. Things would eventually sour again, badly. He would once again fade out of the picture. And I'd be left wondering about him. Wondering about his family and who they were and who he was. I felt like I still didn't really know anything about my father. What was the truth about Warren? What are the secrets I can't access? My whole life, my head swirled with questions. And once I started investigating, I learned, turns out there is something there. There is a reason things don't add up. There is something about my past that I never knew. The answers would turn out to be way weirder, more interesting and more personally intense than anything I've ever investigated before. Coming up on this season of Inconceivable Truth. I knew there was something that someone wasn't telling me.
- [48:11]
Roberta
And she said to me, their secret.
- [48:14]
Matt Katz
That was the Hand married Ellie Lynch. Most of them did go to Maracaxia if they had the right family. Ah, that's it.
- [48:22]
Kelly
Finding the truth, it's not what you.
- [48:24]
Roberta
Want it to be.
- [48:26]
Unknown
If you can deal with that kind of stuff, then jump in. The DNA is the truth.
- [48:32]
Matt Katz
Everything else is is just a story.
- [48:35]
Roberta
Never in a million years would I have thought that this is how this occurred.
- [48:53]
Matt Katz
Inconceivable Truth is a production of Waveland and Rococo Punch. I'm writer and host Matt Katz. The story editor is Erica Lance. Mixing by James Trout. Emily Forman is Our producer, Natalie White is our intern. Our executive producers are Jason Hoak at Waveland and John Peratti and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch. For photos and more details on the series, follow avelandmedia on Instagram X or Facebook and you can reach out via email at Podcasts at Waveland Media. That's Waveland. W A V L A N D if you like this series, please leave us a review and don't forget to tell a friend or relative. I'm Matt Katz. Thanks for listening. How do you feel?
- [49:50]
Roberta
I feel drained.
- [49:52]
Matt Katz
Sorry.
- [49:52]
Roberta
I shouldn't have had pizzas laying on my stomach.
- [49:55]
Matt Katz
Let's take naps.
- [49:57]
Roberta
Oh God.
- [50:02]
Unknown
Vitamin Water was born in New York because New Yorkers wanted more flavor to pair with all the amazing food in the city. You can have the best meal in the world here if you can get a reservation. Vitamin Water is so New York. Its three favorite cheeses are chopped cheese, bacon, egg and cheese and a slice of cheese pizza. We know where to get the best sushi in the city and best nachos and best bagels and best. You get it. And you can find food trucks better than five star restaurants. Drink Vitamin Water. It's from New York.
- [50:32]
Kelly
How do you make an Airbnb? A vrbo. Picture a vacation rental with a host who's showing you every room like you've never seen a house before. Now get rid of them. There you go. No host ever. Now it's a vrbo. Make it a vrbox.