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- [00:00]
Podcast Host
A pulp MX Network production. A cerebral and experienced look into the racing action from the week that was. This is Industry Seating with Jason Thomas. Presented by Guts Racing Pro, Glow Wash Works Connection, Bass Foundry, TL Speed Shop, Grandstone Boots and Fly Racing.
- [00:43]
Jason Thomas
Welcome to the Industry Seating podcast. My name is Jason Thomas. It is June 19, 2025 and it's also my birthday. So not going to make this super long because I would like to not work a whole lot on my birthday. I am recording this in Miami. Won an award at my day job at Western Power Sports. Debatable whether I was worthy of winning that or not, but can't change that now so I'm just gonna go with it. So myself and some of my co workers will be arriving today. All of the my bosses at WPS will be arriving today. So that should be a fun weekend. And it just happened to coincide with an off weekend for the series which is why I was able to partake and attend and also happen to coincide with my birthday. So lots to celebrate this weekend. But what are we going to talk about today? Well, we watched the High Point National. We got probably the heaviest rain that we've gotten since at least 2022. And the reason I know that is because I have been doing television since the summer of 2022 for pro motocross, not we know how bad it's raining Supercross, but for pro motocross we really haven't had any mud races and I've been doing television for promoter Cross and I haven't had to deal with any mud. So that's kind of my barometer for it. So we'll talk about that. We'll talk about what an off weekend looks like. I wrote about it a little bit for Racer X online for Racerhead, that will come out on Friday. But I'll, I'll touch on kind of how I see off weekends for all of the racing world and yeah, get set for for Southwick in a little over a week's time. Do want to thank the sponsors of this podcast. They make this possible and supporting me and all of my crazy ideas. Guts Racing Works Connection, TL Speed Shop and their new website race-rentals.com which they have been, they've been gearing up for all sorts of stuff. I think they just finished another Baja event. So if you've ever wanted to rip around in a trophy truck or go to Baja or, or anywhere in kind of the southwest side by sides or trophy trucks, that is your answer for that. Grantstone Boots actually sent me some, some Shoes down here to wear. We have some, yeah, organized kind of celebratory dinners and I wanted to, wanted to look the part. So thank you to Grant Stone boots and Grantstone shoes for taking care of me on that front. Unmatched supplements man. I continue to be amazed at the new products they keep coming out with their weight is when I'd been to Shred, which is like a morning and night kind of weight loss I would say like a supplement. It does a lot but it has some GLP aspects to it. But it's really for kind of weight management and kick starting your metabolism a little bit. So that's been a new product and they also just launched this longevity which is for men I would say, but it's like a natural testosterone booster. But some of that stuff I don't think is relevant. But other things are incredibly relevant like protein supplements. All those things are basically good for everyone. So check out unmatched sups.coms u-p p s.com use a promo code JT10 there to save yourself some money. And I cannot speak highly enough about those products. My friend Chris is co founder and co owner of that company and seriously, I don't know anyone who I would trust with health or improving fitness more than than that guy. He is just a wealth of knowledge and truly a great friend of mine. We're gonna work on doing a podcast together. I think It'll be a YouTube version where because he's super into to moto, he used to race motocross back, way back. But just kind of comparing our knowledge bases and how what he knows can help some of you that like to race and ride and then yeah his audience just. I would like to give kind of a testimonial of my, my fitness journey that I've been on with him as far as changing over from you know, doing everything physically possible to be the best motocross racer to overall general health, aesthetically, life, longevity. Like he is a big proponent of like biohacking your life basically to extend your life and improve your quality of life. Like that's his, that's his biggest thing. He does a lot of transformation work with people trying to get them to basically lose weight in the end but overall just make their life better. So he is, he's honestly the foremost expert and in that arena. So that would be, that's gonna be a fun one. I just have no idea when we're gonna be able to pull that off, but it is gonna happen. Firepower, batteries and hard parts. There's There are so many new products coming out from Firepower, So check out firepowerparts.com and fly racing. That one kind of goes without saying. But yeah, Fly Racing has been a huge part of my life for a very long time and it's opened so many doors for me and, and I'm hoping that I can continue to push Fly Racing. Yeah, to take, take the next steps and get our brand to where I think it should be and belongs to be and will be long term. Okay, thank you for your patience as we work through the sponsors. Let's talk about what we saw in High Point and man, you know, all week we talked about the weather. It looked like it was going to rain a lot on Friday and a lot on Saturday. And in the end, if you were just looking at it in a black and white fashion, you could say that that kind of happened. It did rain on Friday night, thankfully, after everybody had kind of left the track. So we didn't get, you know, there really was no hiccup on Friday as far as execution. You know, press day went off without a hitch. All the meetings that had to happen, the media stuff that really kind of propels the sport forward, gets all the engagement, all those things happened, no issue. It did rain on Friday night after, you know, I think maybe I was still awake, but definitely overnight there was rain but nothing like prohibitive, nothing crazy. So when we arrived to the track on Saturday, you know, they were, the track crew was very fearful of heavy rain throughout the weekend. So in that light they didn't go hard on track watering. Were basically doing the bare minimum to make it manageable but also not get a lot of depth to the water and the moisture. That's a fine line. Excuse me, That's a fine line to walk because if it doesn't rain, you're at big risk of having just a rock hard, dusty, terrible racetrack, which we have not seen a high point in maybe ever. That I'm sure going back to like the 90s or 80s probably you would be able to find something like that. But not since I've been going there and that's since 1995. I cannot remember a rock hard, dusty, blown out high point. So that's what they're risking if they don't really water much. And it just happened, we just happened to miss all the rain. Well, thankfully we didn't. We got some Friday night track was really, really good in qualifying, which is not that normal to typically a race like High Point. If it's going to be like they know it's going to be sunny and amazing. They're going to water the hell out of it because they want to get that moisture into the dirt, work it through several layers of topsoil. So when they rip it, when they work it, it has moisture in it and they can kind of push that around and keep traction through it all day long, regardless of what they're kind of doing to it. So they didn't get it that wet. Thankfully, the rain kind of did that. But it was, it was really ideal conditions. And the again, the only reason they were able to allow for ideal conditions was the threat of rain later in the day. Sorry, it's kind of wandering through that point. But fear of rain caused them to not water much. But it did rain Friday night, which just by happenstance had the track in perfect condition on Saturday morning. And they didn't want to change that because really they were trying to basically dry it out as much as they could in the morning. They still didn't want it as wet as it was because they were terrified it was going to start raining at any moment. Which from 10am on there was a threat of rain. So it was already kind of a net negative. They were already chasing it a little bit as far as the dirt being too wet. But then the unthinkable happened. It just didn't rain.
- [09:28]
Podcast Host
It just.
- [09:29]
Jason Thomas
We just kept pushing on hour by hour. I kept seeing black clouds in the horizon. I was up in the mechanics tower, which is raised so I could kind of see fairly off into the distance and I saw rain clouds. I saw them kind of weaving around us. I was watching the radar like we got lucky several times throughout the mid part of the day and then all of a sudden we didn't anymore. Right before the last 450moto, you could see the same rain clouds, but it started getting darker and darker and darker in the horizon. That's when you start looking for the wind direction. Like, okay, is that, is that wall of black coming towards us? Because if it is, we're screwed. And I'm watching all the flags because there's flags everywhere at these races, right? The country flags, sponsor flags. You can get an idea of wind direction and you could just see it, like you could see it coming and you're like, okay, how hard are we gonna get here? Hit, get hit here. Is this gonna set in? It's just gonna blow through. All those questions were kind of going through my mind and then I got a radio call from the television truck which they have like really high end radar over at the. The broadcast trucks, and they're like, hey, we. We have some serious weather on the way, like, serious lightning. You know, like, if you're looking on a radar screen and it's like red and purple, that's what was headed our direction. So I was like, all right, buckle up. Here we go. And I had nothing. I didn't have a jacket. I didn't have a hat. I had nothing because I didn't. I didn't think we were gonna need it. I kind of wet. I kind of gave up on that. That backup plan. So I'm like, all right, we're just in this now. Like, we're. Whatever happens is gonna happen. And then we, you know, the race takes off. I'm still getting updates like, hey, it's coming.
- [11:13]
Podcast Host
We're.
- [11:13]
Jason Thomas
We're gonna have to make a judgment call on a lightning here. And then the race is happening, the rain comes, and then with about. I think it was seven minutes plus two laps to go, I just heard him say, we're calling it. And then everything happens really fast, right? Red flags. They're evacuating people. And they. They tried to. They were trying to get to the end, but once they breach a certain mile marker of lightning strikes, they call it. And it's not a. It's not like a, hey, maybe we can. No, it's over. Like, they're. They're watching for that. That perimeter to be breached by any sort of lightning strike, and then it's done. And there. There are lots of reasons for that. And I saw this crazy conspiracy theories about Jet and whatever has nothing to do with any of that. They don't care. Nobody. None of these people that are executing the races or on a television basis or officials, they don't care who wins or loses. That's not what they're there for. They're there on an operational basis. And yes, they're definitely worried about the fans and the riders. Of course, that goes without saying. But what people don't really think about is they have these cameramen that are way up on these scissor lifts that are completely exposed to lightning strikes. They're basically like gigantic lightning rods up in the sky around the racetrack. And they're. They're super exposed, and they're, you know, contract, where they cannot put those guys at risk. So a lot of the time they're. They're thinking about a lot of people's safety. But first and foremost, who's the most exposed and most vulnerable are those cameramen. So they got to get those guys down. And sometimes the supercrosses, they'll pull them down really early and they'll go to like backup cameras at the stadium. But at a, at a motocross race, they don't have anything else. There is no other system in place to use. So they're like, when they have to pull those guys down, they're calling the race. There is nothing left really to do. There's no more decision to be made. They need to get people out of the middle of fields, they need to get riders off the racetrack, jumping through the sky, all those things are at risk. And they're, I mean, nobody would expect them to take that risk, I don't think. But in the same breath, there's zero chance that anybody, MX Sports, Feld Entertainment, the NBC Universal side, anybody, anybody involved, no one's going to take any of those risks, nor should they, quite honestly. Like a 7 minutes plus 2 laps of a race is not worth putting people in serious jeopardy. And when I say serious jeopardy, it was legit lightning. Like I, I live, I grew up in Florida. I'm in Florida at the moment. It's the lightning capital of the world. I know lightning very, very well. I've been around it. I've seen lightning strikes in real time, hit like a hundred yards from me. Like I know what it looks like. And if that hits someone, they're dead. Like, it's catastrophically bad and everyone around them is likely dead because of the outward spray of electricity and energy like that. There's a, there's a radius there that there's, it's going to be a catastrophic disaster. And that simply can't happen. Like it cannot happen because we're worried about extending the race to full time. Like it's simply not worth it. No, nobody would say that. And if they, if you are, then maybe you're thinking racing's a little bit too serious. Because I get it if, like it's raining and they're not going to call it for rain. Like if it was just raining, you know, like a spring shower, they would not call it, they don't care about that. That's a part of racing. But this was like legit full on lightning strikes on the property. Like weeds was saying that specific areas of the property got hit. They showed trees and stuff that got hit from this storm. So that just tells you how close it was and what the real risks were. So they made the right call in the end is all I'm trying to say. And you know, I'm not trying to defend them. Because I work for them or anything like that. I just, I was there. I was on site. I watched how bad this got, how quickly it deteriorated, and this was. This was the right call. Okay, so that sets the scene. Let's talk about the race itself. And Hayden Deegan, I, I thought he really asserted himself back as the guy, and. And I don't think it was really in question, per se, but Jaime did such a great job in Colorado of kind of, I don't know, stemming that. That narrative for. For a week anyway. You know, like, he was the fastest qualifier. He got the hole shots. He won both motos. It's hard to say, like, this other someone else is the alpha, unbeatable guy when you watch that unfold, like that hard thing to square both of those facts. So I thought it was important for Deegan to come out and send a message back at High Point and say, okay, yeah, man, that was not Colorado, was not it for me, and I need to go show everybody what the. The real situation is. And I think he did that. And if you watched Saturday, you watched his qualifying effort, you know, I get every version of Hayden on the podium. I get the really brash, arrogant, full of confidence guy sometimes, and other times I get the really quiet, subdued, really determined Hayden. And this was the second version. This was the guy that he didn't really have a lot to say. He wasn't going to put in anybody's face. He was there to prove a point. He was all business on that Saturday. And I think that is coming on the heels of not being embarrassed in Colorado. Embarrassing. When you go two, two, you're not embarrassed. I think it was just. He understood that it was really important to come out and. And do this thing right. He needed to do exactly what he did, and he was fully locked in and engaged to executing that. So that's. It's kind of how I gauge Hayden. You know, his performances don't always. Aren't always indicative of that, but I can tell when he's in that mode where he's quiet and he's not kind of like trying to engage or trying to, you know, create a social, viral moment, you can tell he's. He's all the way in. Like, he has locked in on results only. And so I was looking for that kind of day from him, and he. He delivered. So kudos to Hayden. I mean, he has, I think, a 42 point lead now, and, you know, we're kind of back to where we were. He feels like he's. It feels like he's the best guy by quite a bit. You just look at the consistency, the fitness, the speed. Like, there's, you know, the starts are iffy at times, but otherwise there's really. There's really nothing you can even go at with a kid right now against, against these guys. You know, it. He'll level up next year, next summer, and it'll. It'll change, you know, the, at the. The ask will change, the level of difficulty will change, and we'll see then. But for right now, he is the class of this field. Without question, in my mind, Chance Imus is. Is second on this list. And this is. This is tough, man. You know, like, I'm not super close with Chance, but I do know him. You know, he wears fly, of course, and I probably talked to his dad more than I talked to Chance, but I've gotten to know Chance better this year, and I'm thankful for that. But he. He's really close with people that I'm really close with. And this sucked. This was. This was a big emotional blow for him. And for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, he tore his ACL on his right knee, which is his good knee. So now he has two, quote unquote bad knees, and he's got to get this right one fixed. And he just. He had just kind of gotten back, you know, like, he. Okay, yeah, sure. He raced Tampa Supercross starting in February, so he's been racing for four months, I guess. But he was hurt most of that time with the wrist. His knee was a hundred percent. He crushed Colorado. You could see him gaining momentum. He was on his way to another podium. He would have went five, two on the day. Six, two, five, two, whatever it was. And then on the last lap, stuck his foot down, drug it in a rut. And I'm sure it just twisted sideways. And that's all it takes. That's all it takes. That's how quickly it can happen. You don't have to have some huge crash. Like, look at Jet, look at Jed at Glendale. He just stuck it down. I've done it a few different. I've torn mine twice. Both of them were actually pretty big crashes. So I don't have the same exact experience that they have, but I've seen. I've seen ACLs get torn many, many, many, many, many times. And it doesn't always have to be the biggest, biggest incident ever. It's just there's so much torque and tension. Put on a knee by all the forces at Play, and it doesn't take a lot. It just has to twist a little bit with the right angle and boom, you're done. Like, it's just that ligament tears and it's game over. And, you know, like RV Seattle 2012, there are lots of incidents, incidents where I've seen this, where it wasn't some catastrophic moment. And, yeah, your season is effectively over just that quickly. So this sucks for Jaimus. I mean, you have to think now it's June, he's going to get surgery. We won't see him until 2026 racing anyway. It. Could he race like AUSX or something? I don't know, maybe. But American racing, we won't see him until 2026, which is just terrible. It's terrible. Thankfully, he's got a contract, so he's not going anywhere, but it's just another setback and it's really hard to keep coming back from these injuries and build any sort of momentum because what happens is everybody else around you is getting better. He's going to miss out on four months of improvement, you know, working on himself, working on the bike, getting in better shape. Like, he's going to go back to basically zero for fitness and start over again. Like, it's just. It's a really, really tough blow on multiple fronts. Physically, you know, that's obvious, but the emotional, just toll that this takes on someone who's already been beaten down so many times in the last couple years, you know, like, you don't have to be a fan, but just on a. On a human empathy level, this. This was tough to. This was tough to watch. Levi Kitchen, on the other hand, you know, he's kind of. He's bouncing back. Like, is he a championship threat? No. Did a lot of people expect him to be a championship threat all the way through 2025? I did. And he's not. He's not that. So I think you can judge Kitchen kind of on a curve a little bit. You know, it's not bad. Podiums are good. Podiums will make Mitch happy. Podiums will make you a lot of money, all those things. But I. I believe that Kitchen wants to win. Like he is in this, to win races. Like he. That's what I think Mitch is hiring for. That's what 450 teams are looking for. Be in the fight with Hayden, challenge for challenge to be the best guy, because we've seen him do that. Look at 2024, he did it multiple times. So I think on, you know, a 2025 basis, he simply was better in 2024. So, you know, and I said this on the live motocross. Live motocross, I guess, is probably, I don't know, podcast that I do with Ed Stratman. I think Kitchen is suffering from just not being quite tough enough. And that's so hard to quantify. I don't mean it in a derogatory way. Like, I really like Levi. He's so nice to me and I really appreciate that. Some guys are just like, really indifferent. He's genuinely nice. Like, I think he's a good person. But I'm just telling you that if you're going to battle Hayden Deegan and you're going to battle the best guys, you gotta be pretty tough, man. Like, just you don't. It doesn't have to be like this outward demeanor that you're kind of an a hole. That's not what I mean. I mean, like, you have to have this internal grit and determination and a real, real backbone. Because these guys, when it comes down to it in sports, are all kind of alphas. Like, they're all bad asses. That's why they're. That's why they're at where they're at. You know, that's where they are. Where they are is probably better phrase. They had to go through every level to get here. Amateur racing. Every time they leveled up, they had to race older people, they had to race the best guys. And they continued to go up that, you know, escalator up. And they have to keep beating every time there's a new challenge, right? And you keep. It's like a video game where you beat this boss and you go to the next level, and you go to the next level. That's what these guys are facing. And for Kitchen, if you want to keep climbing that ladder, like, you've got to show some real internal toughness. Because these guys, it is what they do is to rob you of that. Like, they will crush your confidence. That's what Hayden thrives on. Hayden thrives on stealing all of your momentum and confidence away from you. And he'll do it in every way possible on the bike, off the bike. Comments, social media He'll DM girls, he'll your girlfriend, he doesn't care. Like, whatever he can do to distract you, to upset you, to get you off your game, Hayden Deegan will do it. And that's what, I'm not saying that that's what, like, tome those guys are above all that, but it's going to come in different ways and shapes and forms and you have to be able to push back against that with serious force, like, real. You have to be. Have a lot of solidity as a human to. To push back and keep getting your head kicked in and come back for more. So that's what I want to see from Kitchen. I'm not saying he doesn't have it in him. I'm just saying he needs to show it. And if he does have it, you need to bring it out, because that's what it's going to take to go at Hayden. And when I see, like, Hayden come in at Hangtown after the first moto and immediately chirping at Kitchen because Kitchen was having a hard time with the heat, Hayden's immediately chirping at him about, it's not even hot. Like, what's wrong with you? Whatever. Kitchen doesn't do anything. Like, I just. I don't know. It's a personality thing probably, too. If Hayden did that to me, you would see a barrage of f bombs back at Hayden. Like, I would walk right over to him and say, what do you. What you want? Like, what do you want? Let's go. Let's go right now. Like, I don't like when people are disrespectful in broad daylight. Like, I don't. I do not like that. And if you want to, you know, beat me down, that's fine. We're gonna find out if you can or can't. But I'm not gonna just sit there and let you take shots at me. That's. That's not gonna happen. I am far too defiant of a person to do that. And I. I don't like disrespect. You will very rarely find me ever disrespecting someone. And if you're gonna do it to me to my face, nothing good's gonna come from it. Maybe not for me either. Probably very much not for me either. But I just. I don't know. I. I don't think I could handle the. You know, like, if Hayden came at me that way, I wouldn't just take it. And maybe. Maybe there's wisdom in that. You know, where Levi just, like, I don't really care. Like, he's just gonna run his mouth. I don't care what he does or says. It doesn't matter. It's probably wise. It probably is. I'm probably taking the lesser pathway. I just know my personality, and if you push me to a certain spot, I'm going to react poorly. Like, for everybody involved is what's going to happen. And I, I have not seen that from kitchen. I kind of want to see it is where I'm getting to. That's where I'm trying to get to with this point is I want to see that from him. I want to see some pushback. I want to see him get actually angry. I don't know if I've ever seen him mad before. If you were around me when I was racing, I was mad all the time because I wanted more from myself. I wanted to be better than I was doing. And it really pissed me off that I couldn't do it or when I wasn't riding very well. I haven't seen that from kitchen. Like, he always just, just kind of just affable. Like it's like going well cool, going not so well cool. And I, I just, that is not me at all. That's not me in any aspect of my life. So I, I would just, I think. And it's not even like that I care. It's more of what I think it's going to take for him to get to the next level and be a, be the guy that's winning and the guy that everybody is kind of like unsure about beating is. He's got to find some of that deep down inside him somewhere. So anyway, probably too much on kitchen there, but just kind of how I feel. V, it's all right, you know, like podium, you know, it's not terrible. I, I thought that Daniel Blair, I, I watched Daniel Blair show when I was flying yesterday. I thought he made a great point about V kind of doing a Justin Cooper type schedule in 2026. That made a lot of sense to me. Get your feet wet in 450 supercross because he has to race 450 now and then drop down, get ready in April and May for pro motocross, like maybe bail after Daytona and then spend the second half of March and all of April and half of May just hammering down motocross on a 250 and come in more prepared than you've ever been. I really like that plan. Like it was super smart in my mind. Now you need to get KTM to sign off on it. But I don't think it would be that tough of a sell. I really don't. Because he's not ready to go really succeed in 450 Supercross. I firmly believe that. And I would probably tell him and his father who I raced when I.
- [29:34]
Podcast Host
Was a kid, I was like 19.
- [29:37]
Jason Thomas
I would tell both of them that.
- [29:39]
Podcast Host
Like Tom is not ready to take that step yet and battle like in the top six.
- [29:44]
Jason Thomas
He's just not like his skill sets not there. I watch him, I watch everybody. It's what I do for a living. He's not there yet. Doesn't mean he can't get there. It's just not there yet.
- [29:54]
Podcast Host
So why wouldn't this plan make a lot of sense? And I think it does. And if I was Ian, I'd be like, yeah, let's do that. It'll save us some budget for 450 because I think they kind of have to keep them. And it'll allow him to race with no pressure, learn a little bit, and then it will give us collectively KTM, a real chance at winning the 250 Pro Motocross Championship. And that's what they want. That's, that's why he's on that team. That's why they hired him. Was 4, 4 or 250 pro motocross now 2, 2, 250 supercross championships came along the way and I'm sure they're over the moon about those. But make no mistake, they hired him for pro motocross to come in and try to win national championships because he was an MXGP guy. That's what he had done. That's where he had proven his worth and effectiveness. And I, I think everything else past that was a bonus that they're, they're loving it. Right. Like, how could they not really, really be excited about those Supercross titles? But I think those were just, yeah, those are kind of cherry on top, which. But where he hasn't shown up is in pro motocross. Like, he's done okay, he's won a race or two, but the consistency and the speed and the championship level contention hasn't been there. Like there is, make no mistake. It simply has not been there. So all that preparation in 2026 that he would be afforded by that schedule would get him there. So nice take by Daniel there.
- [31:36]
Jason Thomas
Let's see if, let's see if there's anything to that. Shimoda. It's okay.
- [31:43]
Podcast Host
Like, the starts are killing him. When he doesn't get the start, he fights hard. Like he's clearly fast. Like he is one of the top three fastest guys in this class. But if you're not going to start.
- [31:54]
Jason Thomas
At the front, your life is going.
- [31:55]
Podcast Host
To be very difficult because he's simply not as fast as Hayden. So he can't move through the pack with the effectiveness that Hayden does. And that will kind of just push him into this. No man's land of. Maybe he's going to be second, maybe.
- [32:11]
Jason Thomas
He'S going to be sixth.
- [32:12]
Podcast Host
You don't really know. How well can he move through the pack? You don't really know. So that's what he's up against is the results are going to be all over the place because his starts are not consistent enough to make sure that he finishes where his speed would indicate. And that's, that's kind of the point is he should be on the podium every single moto in my opinion. But the starts are creating variants in that result because he's a little better but not a lot better if, if that makes sense.
- [32:45]
Jason Thomas
So that's it for 2:50 class.
- [32:47]
Podcast Host
I don't know. It's Hayden's championship. Everybody else is just kind of along.
- [32:51]
Jason Thomas
For the ride in my opinion.
- [32:53]
Podcast Host
But it sets, it damn sure sets up nicely for 20, 26 pro motocross, doesn't it? So let's talk 450s before we do.
- [33:00]
Jason Thomas
Thank you again to the sponsors. Guts Racing. Check out all their seat covers, custom graphics. They are the first name in seats, period. Works Connection. They have brand new Yamaha foot peg repositioning. Trying to think of the right word.
- [33:19]
Podcast Host
Units, but they just launched those. So if you want to move your foot peg position, they have basically it's where the pin and the circle go. They can, you can move that around. So if you're taller, you want to lower them. There's a lot of different options there, but really cool. They've done this with several models in the past. But it can change where you position yourself on the motorcycle. So say, you know, a motorcycle is basically built for someone that's the average height, you know, 5, 10, whatever, to be as comfortable as possible. We'll say you're six, three and you want to lower the foot pegs because you can manage to have more clearance. It's gonna, it's gonna lower you into the motorcycle a little bit. You would want to get these right. For me, lowering foot pegs is not a good idea. Like I would want to raise foot pegs to give me more clearance and raise me over the top of the motorcycle because my legs are shorter. So that's a very unique thing for each, each particular rider. But Works Connection is, is the ultimate at giving you options like this for your rider triangle. So check them out. Works connection.com and at Works Connection on.
- [34:26]
Jason Thomas
Instagram, TL Speedshop, race- rentals.com unmatched supplements.
- [34:31]
Podcast Host
I'm actually going to take some of.
- [34:33]
Jason Thomas
My dissident here in A minute which.
- [34:35]
Podcast Host
Is the pre workout and was learning a lot about all the processes when you take this pre workout. See I thought it was just for kind of an energy thing because that's.
- [34:44]
Jason Thomas
What you really feel.
- [34:45]
Podcast Host
You feel like a burst of energy but you don't get jittery. It doesn't have caffeine in it but man, you are like a demon in the gym. But it also gives you all these. It has like these catabolic, trying to think of the right word mechanisms that basically push more oxygen and blood into your muscles. So not only are you getting the energy, you're getting more pump which is going also that blood and oxygen is going to help your muscles to grow. So there's a lot more happening than just the pre workout pump that goes along with it. So it's the best pre workout I've ever taken. I would highly, highly recommend trying unmatched supplements. Go to unmatched subs.com so thank you to them. Grandstone Boost I'll be wearing.
- [35:37]
Jason Thomas
I got some loafers actually, I've never worn loafers so I'll be wearing those this weekend.
- [35:41]
Podcast Host
Firepower batteries and hard Parts go to.
- [35:44]
Jason Thomas
Firepowerparts.Com and fire racing. Of course you already know that one.
- [35:48]
Podcast Host
Let's talk 450s really quick. And we're going to do the power rankings today.
- [35:54]
Jason Thomas
Why would we not? And number 10.
- [35:57]
Podcast Host
This guy's been coming around like it's really hard to not notice the improvement that we saw at High Point. And you know, I struggle with Joey sometimes because just to be honest, his attitude's not the best. It's just not, you know, like whether it's, I don't know, the motorcycle, his riding. Take your pick on what the application is. He just struggles to have a great attitude some of the time. And you know, I've dealt with it on the fly side. I've seen it with the team side and I think it can hinder his results at times is what should be important to him. I don't know if he knows or cares or what or how he feels about any of it. But it is a thing with Joe. Anybody that knows him would tell you the same. He has a little bit of a pessimistic approach to life, to racing, to whatever. So I think this weekend it would have been pretty hard for him to be pessimistic about what he accomplished because he was damn good. Like he was super legit last weekend. So I hope that he's cutting himself a break. I think he went till 8, 6 or 6, 8. One of the two. But that was a marked improvement. I know from talking to people around his program that they've been working on the starts a lot. The starts he feels have been one of the biggest problems in his entire program. So they've been working with ECUs, trying to get him in a better place with that and more comfortable and just, you know, the starts these days in modern racing are so much about the start map. And, you know, I think it's easier for people to be detractors and kind of say, ah, doesn't matter. Good starters are good starters. Yeah, fair. But when you look at how advanced these ecus are, the start maps, the way the power is delivered, there's a lot going on there. A lot more than I think people like myself or especially like old school racers that didn't race with this technology, we want to discount it. But just talking to people that race and also work on the bikes, it's a pretty big deal. Another aspect of this that I don't know that Joey was working on so much, but I hear about it a lot, especially in mxgp. It is a, it is all the rage as far as a topic and a place of emphasis is the clutch, clutch fibers, the clutch pole, the cable, the location, all those things, the whole mechanism from, from start to finish, how touchy it is, how quickly it engages. Like there's a lot to it. And I'm not mechanically inclined enough to tell you how it all works, but I hear about it constantly from riders that they're working on the clutch, working on the clutch, get the better clutch engagement, more feel, smoother, you know, smoother engagement, all those things. That's a, that's a huge thing. I don't know if it's as big.
- [39:12]
Jason Thomas
Of a deal in America or maybe.
- [39:14]
Podcast Host
It'S just not yet because I don't hear it all the time. But man, if you go to Europe, you hear about it. If you talk about starts, you will hear those guys talk about it quite a bit and how advanced they're getting with, because you're talking about milliseconds on the start, how much of a difference.
- [39:31]
Jason Thomas
It makes if you can clear the guy, the riders around you, that's gonna make all the difference.
- [39:36]
Podcast Host
So anyway, for Joey, starts are important, but he is, he is riding really well.
- [39:41]
Jason Thomas
And kudos to Joey for getting that done.
- [39:44]
Podcast Host
Number nine, Anderson. I don't know what to make of Anderson here. It's been okay, like not, not great, you know, he's not gonna be on that team. It sounds like he might be at Ducati next year with Barsha is kind of what I'm hearing. I don't know that to be fact. It's just what I'm hearing.
- [40:06]
Jason Thomas
But I think he's just kind of riding this thing out, you know, I.
- [40:09]
Podcast Host
Don'T think it's like he's putting in these heroic efforts through the week or anything. Like he does ride a lot. He rides a lot more than most people think. But I don't think he's like just torturing himself trying to be better. I think he's kind of is doing what he's going to do. I think he's probably close or got his kind of contract done, which is, is the big thing. And yeah, so I don't think you're going to see any like breakout ride from, from Anderson this summer. It's kind of all I'm getting at anyway.
- [40:39]
Jason Thomas
Malcolm 8. Man, that was, that was rough.
- [40:42]
Podcast Host
He got lit up by his handlebars. That was, that was tough. And you know, it's bad enough crashing, but holy hell, like he took a full on uppercut from his handlebars when it, you know, it like high side and then it caught and when it cut like a high side, the when it whips to the high side is a violent thing. And that's unfortunately he got the very worst end of that. And thankfully he's relatively okay. But that looked pretty rough.
- [41:13]
Jason Thomas
That was, that was not a good one.
- [41:15]
Podcast Host
7.
- [41:16]
Jason Thomas
I'm gonna have a sip of my dissident here.
- [41:23]
Podcast Host
Sorry for drinking in your ear. I hate when people do that to me. So I apologize. RJ is 7 and RJ's been really impressive to me. I didn't expect a lot from him this summer. I honestly didn't expect him to race at all. If you remember at the press conference, I was amazed that he was even racing. Like, I was like, wait, what? You're like, how are you doing this? Because what happened was I knew that he had raced, that he had had surgery. I knew that he had had surgery on his, on his wrist. And I was not really at liberty to share that information. It wasn't my place to say, but I knew, I knew he did. So when I saw that he was husky, put out a PR saying he's gonna race, I'm like scratching my head. And then he's at the press conference and I'm like, so you're actually racing? He's like, yeah, it was always a plan. I'm like, so we're just not going to talk about this at all, and I wasn't going to blow him out. I was not going to say a word. And then he said, well, I mean, yeah, I had surgery a week ago. I was like, oh, okay. All right, cool. Yeah, there we go. I mean, is anybody else catching on to this? Like, he had wrist surgery a week ago, and we're going racing. All right. But I'll be damned if he hasn't been really good. Like, seriously, like, for anybody watching, I mean, he has been really damn good. And none of the craziness, none of the crashes. I'm. I'm very impressed with rj. I. I first, I really like rj. We should start there. I consider him that friend. I would hang out with him anytime and known him for a very long time now, so I like to see him doing well. But this is just an objective take. Like, he's. He's doing a great job. Like, kudos to.
- [43:18]
Jason Thomas
Kudos to rj. Better than I would have thought.
- [43:21]
Podcast Host
And, yeah, let's see if he can maybe creep forward a little bit.
- [43:25]
Jason Thomas
You know, Southwick should be a very.
- [43:27]
Podcast Host
Good race for him. He grew up in the sand. Seriously, like, literally grew up in the.
- [43:31]
Jason Thomas
Sand, and wouldn't shock me if he saw, like, a top five moto from him at Southwick. All right, number six, Hunter Warren's.
- [43:49]
Podcast Host
And I struggle with this, too, if you've heard me say this before. Some of these guys, I feel like, deserve to be better in a better place, and Hunter fits that category this week.
- [44:00]
Jason Thomas
But I don't know what to do with some of these other guys yet.
- [44:07]
Podcast Host
And you're gonna see why. But Hunter could move forward very quickly. The reason I have him still in six is because he missed the whole second half of Supercross, even more than the second half. So without those results in a few iffy races like, Hang Zhang wasn't his best. I'm gonna leave him there now, but it's very likely he moves forward the way he's improving. He could. He could move quickly forward from here, but I'm gonna leave him six from Supercross, and then it's been a little up and down, but this high point race was. Was definitely a lot better. And this is the type of ride that I want to see from him moving forward that, you know, I think he's capable of. And I'm coming around on Hunter a lot.
- [44:53]
Jason Thomas
I was always just kind of, like.
- [44:54]
Podcast Host
Iffy on him, even on a 250.
- [44:57]
Jason Thomas
Until he kind of won that championship.
- [44:58]
Podcast Host
And I was like, well, yes, he won the 250.
- [45:02]
Jason Thomas
But I don't know if he's going.
- [45:02]
Podcast Host
To take the step on the 450 to really be one of the, like, best guys. But he keeps proving me wrong. And I've really come around to appreciate Hunter's personality.
- [45:12]
Jason Thomas
He's a little standoffish.
- [45:13]
Podcast Host
Like, he. I think he's honestly probably a little like me. Like anything anybody says, he's looking for a way to either prove it or disprove it. And I don't know why that is. It's just a personality trait. But I. I do. I do appreciate Hunter's personality and his. His honesty and his analytical sense.
- [45:34]
Jason Thomas
I have some of that myself, probably.
- [45:36]
Podcast Host
I don't know if I'm analyzing it correctly, but I am trying to analyze most things.
- [45:41]
Jason Thomas
And. Yeah, so I just. I think Hunter is. Is underrated is really kind of where I'm going with that.
- [45:50]
Podcast Host
Number five is J. Cooperation, Justin Cooper. And he is one of the guys where I could see he and Hunter.
- [45:55]
Jason Thomas
Kind of moving around.
- [45:56]
Podcast Host
Like, he could definitely move backwards if Hunter continues doing what he's doing. But, I mean, Jacobs. Jacobs, good, right. Like, he's not deserving of moving backwards of his own account. Like, I think he's doing exactly what Monster Yamaha Star Racing would hope. You know, he's not a highly paid guy. I would say of the factory guys, like, he and Malcolm and Plessinger are probably on the bottom end of the range. You know, I don't know where RJ's at. Probably with RJ, there's as well. Like, those guys. Not that they're not making money. They're making really good money. Don't get me wrong. They're probably all, you know, like, if they all crush it, they could all make a million dollars this year. But. Well, I don't know if J Coop could. J Coop's probably the.
- [46:45]
Jason Thomas
The lower end of even that.
- [46:46]
Podcast Host
Like, I would bet Jacob's salary all in. Is probably in the 500 range.
- [46:54]
Jason Thomas
I don't.
- [46:54]
Podcast Host
I don't know that I'm not trying to, like, be coy with telling you what I know. I'm just. I'm roundabout in numbers from knowing the market a little bit. But when I say they're on the lower end of the range, don't. Don't think they're not making money. Right. Even if, like, J Coop made 700 grand this year, that's. That's really good money. So I just. He's not making 2 million like, a bunch of other guys are. 3 million, you know, like There's a lot of guys. A lot of guys. Well, a lot. There are several guys making 2 million and up, you know, so he's just not one of those guys like there. There are definitely levels to the salaries and there's like ranges and a bunch of guys are on the lower end. AP has a really small solid gear deal. I know because I was negotiating against it. But J Coop's gear deal would be significantly lower than AP's gear deal. I don't know what Malcolm's gear deal would look like because that's a brand new deal with fxr. That's kind of a strange turn of events there. So if I had to guess, I would say it's probably. I know it's nowhere near AP's deal, I can guarantee that, but I would say it's probably in the J coupe range for gear and yeah, so you know, RJ's deal is probably in that same JCOOP level too. I haven't seen the number even though I work there and it's not done yet anyway. But yeah, just. I don't know, I'm just more trying to explain the levels of factory riders and expectation is really the point. I don't care what they make nor I guess maybe, maybe you do. I don't really care what they make. It's far because it's not my money. It's more of what the money means for expectation is what I mean to talk about. So for jk, if you're getting paid on the low, low end of the scale from Yamaha and you're still getting podiums and motos and running around the front and you're a serious contender to go into Charlotte with the overall SMX World Championship points points lead. That is a huge win for Yamaha. Huge win. It's a huge win for Jacob too. It's going to give him leverage to get more money. But it is across the board. When you are getting paid, you're not the top end of the scale but you're delivering. That's man. That you cannot be more valuable to a brand or an OEM than doing that. Low cost expenditure and high performance return is man.
- [49:27]
Jason Thomas
That is a beautiful thing. So good job for J Coop on that front.
- [49:31]
Podcast Host
Cooper Webb is four still and yeah, I've told you guys, if he, if he continues to struggle like, like 9 11, that's not going to get it done. You're going to continue to slide. And that, that SMX World Championship points league going into Charlotte is all up for debate right now. Like it's between ap, Justin Cooperation and Cooper Webb. And I don't know who's going to get it. We won't know until we get there. But it is certainly up for grabs. And Webb still has it, but not by a lot. Those guys are coming fast. And, I mean, that's why he's sticking around. Like, he wants that points lead going into Charlotte. And it would be crazy if he raced all summer and didn't have it. Like, that would be a pretty devastating blow, I think, because he could have probably raced a few and then sat out and still gotten third or fourth. And it. What if he ended up third anyway? He raced all summer and barely ended up third. That would. Man, that would be. That would be tough. Like, keep. What are you gonna do? Like, it's. What's done is done. But that would be a pretty big.
- [50:31]
Jason Thomas
Bummer, I think, for Webb. But he's hanging in there. Like, he just. He needs to get some really good races. Like, if he could. If he could beat AP and Justin Cooper a few times and offset the points or at least keep the status quo or even send it back the other way a couple of times, that.
- [50:47]
Podcast Host
Would be a huge.
- [50:48]
Jason Thomas
That would be a huge win for.
- [50:50]
Podcast Host
Him as far as how this is going to turn out.
- [50:52]
Jason Thomas
But so far, it's been a lot of the other way.
- [50:55]
Podcast Host
Like, those guys have been just closing.
- [50:56]
Jason Thomas
Points and closing points and closing points. He needs to really try to stem that if he wants any shot at this thing.
- [51:03]
Podcast Host
Number three right in front of him is ap. And AP is a deserving throw. Third, in my opinion. Like, he. This is where he belongs at the moment.
- [51:11]
Jason Thomas
Decent Supercross season, not so bad.
- [51:14]
Podcast Host
Fantastic first four races of pro motocross, I think above expectations. He's really stepped up his game. Like, I have a lot of. A lot of kudos to give to Aaron Plessinger this summer. Like, he deserves a lot of credit for how far he's come, you know, And I asked him and Katie kind of asked him again, again, about, are you frustrated or how much of a bummer is it to not win?
- [51:40]
Jason Thomas
And, you know, I think his answer is consistent.
- [51:43]
Podcast Host
You know, he is. Deep down somewhere, he's like, God, I gotta. I gotta get this win. But I think his answer is really good. He's like, I'm.
- [51:50]
Jason Thomas
I'm not bummed.
- [51:51]
Podcast Host
Like, last year, These guys were 30 seconds ahead of me, 40 seconds ahead of me. This year, they're right there. So in that light, in that perspective, he's 100% right. Those guys are right there. In front of him. And he has closed the gap to them, which is a huge, huge coup. Like, he deserves a ton of credit for being able to do that. Most people would never be able to close that down. I know what that is like, trying to gain 30 seconds on someone in the course of a year. Like, that is so much improvement to make and he's done it and he deserves a lot of credit. So great job to. To ap. And how could you not like ap.
- [52:30]
Jason Thomas
Like, nobody if you don't like ap, that says more about you than him. I'm just gonna say that I don't know who, like, I'm talking to people I don't even know as far as this goes, but if you like, you're like, eh, I don't really like ap. That's. That's on you. I'm just telling you right now, you need to take a hard look in.
- [52:48]
Podcast Host
The mirror at why you don't like that guy.
- [52:50]
Jason Thomas
Because he's as genuine as it comes.
- [52:52]
Podcast Host
He's not faking it.
- [52:53]
Jason Thomas
He's not putting on an act that is. This is who he is.
- [52:57]
Podcast Host
Number two, Eli Tomac. And again, this is a deserving number two. I don't see any reason why he would be anywhere but number two. And for Eli, he wants to win this championship.
- [53:10]
Jason Thomas
Make no mistake about it.
- [53:11]
Podcast Host
That was the goal. You know, if he gets second, it's not a complete failure, but it's a letdown.
- [53:17]
Jason Thomas
It is a letdown.
- [53:18]
Podcast Host
And that's a. That's a really tough bar to live with is if getting second the championship is a letdown.
- [53:26]
Jason Thomas
But welcome to Eli Tomac.
- [53:28]
Podcast Host
You know, that, that speaks to the level of excellence that he has kind of raced in forever. You know, it's. It's going to be a letdown, but it also is a. It's a really. It says a lot about how good.
- [53:43]
Jason Thomas
He is and how awesome of a.
- [53:44]
Podcast Host
Racer he has been over the course of his career. Career, if second is not really getting the job done. But man, you look at the points, you know, he wins that second moto, but in the end, at the end of the day, he loses three more points. That's tough. That is a really tough thing. That. And I've talked about this in multiple places, so you've heard me speak to it before. I apologize for the redundancy. But it's such an important concept of this guy who looks fantastic. It feels like he could win at any time. Everybody's talking about like, he's in this thing, he's gonna win. This thing and I hear from people all the time and I'm like, okay, like I'm on board. He looks fantastic. But I'm looking at the points and they're going the wrong way through all of this. You know, Jett has won all four outdoor overalls so far. We go into the first off weekend and he has a 28 point lead. So you tell me how close it really is. What's lying to us? Are the points lying to us or our. Or are our emotions. That's a really tough phrase. Or are our emotions lying to us? That's. I mean, I don't know. Say that five times faster. Some sort of linguistics genius.
- [55:09]
Jason Thomas
I don't know. I don't know if. Should we be trusting the numbers or trusting the sentiment? Because the sentiment says Tomax, right?
- [55:17]
Podcast Host
In this thing, the numbers say how he's. Jets won every overall and has a 28 point lead. So. I don't know, man, you. You take your pick. I don't really have a strong opinion on it. I don't. I could see both sides really easily there.
- [55:31]
Jason Thomas
So it's a. It's a really interesting thing to kind of ponder and I'm probably gonna lean into that point a little bit more because I think it's super interesting of which is the more which wins out.
- [55:44]
Podcast Host
Like what.
- [55:44]
Jason Thomas
What should we be listening to? Our emotions or. Or the data. Number one, of course, is Jet Tomac channel words. I mean, this kid's. He's pretty amazing.
- [55:59]
Podcast Host
You know, it's not.
- [56:00]
Jason Thomas
Again, it's not the dominance that like.
- [56:02]
Podcast Host
Ricky won with or when Stu was at his prime or. It's not the same thing. It's not a 45 second lead and he's just annihilating everybody. That's not what this is.
- [56:13]
Jason Thomas
And I don't think it's ever going to be.
- [56:16]
Podcast Host
It is just thorough, unrelenting excellence. And at the end of the day, he wins and it's just a different way of going about it. I don't know if he could win by more or not. You know, James Stewart has kind of.
- [56:31]
Jason Thomas
Gone back and forth basically saying that he doesn't think he can. He just thinks he's. He's just good enough to get the job done. I don't really know.
- [56:37]
Podcast Host
I don't know if James is wrong. I don't know if James is right. I do know that Jett has bursts of speed when he really needs it. We've seen him. We've seen him use it. So. So I know it's there. It's not like he's going flat out all the time and this is all he ever has to offer. That that's not the case. Whatever you may believe, that is not the case where it's just like this is always God. And you know, like I. You can see it when, when Tomac pressures him or he's under duress, he can just put in these bursts of speed for half a lap and you're just like, oh my God, where did that come from?
- [57:09]
Jason Thomas
Now I don't know if he can.
- [57:10]
Podcast Host
Hold it or sustain it, or maybe he feels like he's too much at risk to hold it, or maybe the energy exertion is so high that no.
- [57:19]
Jason Thomas
One can possibly sustain it.
- [57:20]
Podcast Host
I don't know. I don't claim to have the answers to it, but you can literally see that speed happen when he really needs it to happen. When he feels like something's slipping away or feels under the most pressure, he will show you something that nobody else can show you. Maybe Tomac can show it to you at times and it's becoming less and less frequent as he's getting older. But it's the same kind of beast mode mentality where it's just this pace that no one else can touch and I mean, nobody can touch it when he decides to go there. And for now it's in short bursts.
- [57:59]
Jason Thomas
I don't know if it'll ever become.
- [58:00]
Podcast Host
A thing where that's his level and that's where you see him start putting up 30 and 40 and 50 second gaps. It's not impossible. I've seen it happen before. I don't think that's going to happen. I just think he's going to have it in his back pocket and use.
- [58:13]
Jason Thomas
It when he needs it, try to.
- [58:14]
Podcast Host
Manage risk and try to just kind of stay in these championships and slowly creep away. That's what it feels like, what he.
- [58:22]
Jason Thomas
Wants to do, or maybe just.
- [58:24]
Podcast Host
Just what his.
- [58:27]
Jason Thomas
Subliminal game plan is.
- [58:28]
Podcast Host
Maybe he's not even like set up setting out to do it. It's just kind of the way it unfolds for him.
- [58:33]
Jason Thomas
I don't know.
- [58:34]
Podcast Host
But the results are clearly showing that he's the best guy. He finds ways to win. His starts are incredible, his pace is incredible, his fitness is really good. I don't think he's the fittest guy in the class. I don't. I think he's super fit. But I would say Tomac Spitter, which is not a shock if anybody knows Eli Tomac, but he just doesn't have a lot of holes in his game. You know, he can ride the mud. He always starts up front. He makes and incredibly smart decisions. His racecraft is really good. He has really good sprint speed. His bike's super good. Like, they're getting better with the bike, so I don't know. Point is, good luck beating that guy.
- [59:13]
Jason Thomas
Because no one seems to be able to do it with any sort of consistency. So, anyway, thanks everybody for listening. Almost an hour today. It's my birthday, so I'm gonna go to try to. I gotta work out first, but I'm gonna try to enjoy the rest of the weekend. And I hope you all enjoy yours too. See you.