Insights Unlocked – Episode Summary

Episode Title: How customer-centric marketing fuels real growth
Release Date: November 17, 2025
Host: Nathan Isaacs, UserTesting
Guest: Bill Masaitis (Former CMO/CRO of Slack, CMO of Zendesk, SVP of Marketing at Salesforce; executive advisor and board member)

Episode Overview

This engaging episode explores what it truly takes for B2B brands to become beloved by customers—diving into customer-centric growth, capital efficiency, broken attribution models, and the pivotal role of both AI and curiosity for modern marketers. Drawing from his rich experience at iconic tech brands and his advisory work with AI startups, Bill Masaitis shares honest stories, actionable frameworks, and candid advice for marketers and business leaders aiming to drive real, sustainable growth through customer-obsessed strategies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Bill Masaitis’ Journey: From B2C to B2B Powerhouse

• Foundational experience in startup profitability:
  • Early necessity to build a profitable business from scratch (no VCs), instilling a lean, capital-efficient approach.
  • “[We] had to build a profitable company, which was not really in vogue at the time... but it really taught me that in startups you have to think about capital efficiency.” (Bill Masaitis, 03:38)
• Learning in B2C sets B2B apart:
  • B2C marketers “did a lot of the revenue, growth, and brand building,” while B2B often separated marketing and sales.
  • B2C background gave Bill an advantage in B2B: “It equipped me with a much different skill set than I think a lot of traditional B2B marketers had.” (Bill, 01:37–03:11)

Capital Efficiency & Experimentation

• Survival requires creative, efficient growth:
  • “Anyone can buy growth, but how do you get it capital efficiently?” (Bill, 03:38)
  • Marketing tactics: viral marketing, partnerships, content, early SEO.
  • Ongoing importance: Even well-funded companies struggle without strong unit economics.
• Curiosity and continuous learning:
  • Drawing a parallel to Spike Jonze, the legendary filmmaker’s DIY ethos, Nathan links experimentation and curiosity to modern marketing success.
  • “Are you just curious and do you want to try things out and fail... it really levels the playing field.” (Bill, 05:55)

Customer-Centricity in Practice

• Why customer-centric companies win long term:
  • Early career lessons: Short-term “tricks” for retention ultimately hurt the customer experience and long-term results.
  • Transition to B2B revealed how bad typical buying journeys were (hidden info, complex sales forms, lack of support).
  • “If you want to grow and grow efficiently... you gotta have word of mouth, you gotta have people that are talking about it and recommending it.” (Bill, 07:29)
• The operational challenge:
  • “Customer centric companies really dominate and win the long run... but it’s so hard to build.” (Bill, 08:53)
  • Requires alignment from board to C-suite, tracking the right metrics (NPS, CSAT, DAUs).
• Metrics shape behavior:
  • Setting the right north star metrics is key (“Metrics drive behavior”).
  • Example: Slack measured ARR, DAUs, and NPS, with all teams sharing responsibility.

Rethinking Attribution & Feedback Loops

• Attribution is deeply flawed:
  • First/last-click models “skew everything” and create perverse incentives.
  • “You don’t just see a billboard and go buy a six-figure deal the next day… these are journeys.” (Bill, 16:25)
• Clever approaches to discovering what works:
  • Multitouch attribution with AI/regression analysis for advanced orgs; simple control groups/experimentation for scrappy startups.
  • Example: Limiting campaigns to specific regions or account lists, then measuring delta (control vs. exposed group).
• Getting to the ‘why’: User Testing
  • Classic brand messaging fail: Salesforce’s “social enterprise” confusion led to leads dropping.
  • Used five-second tests to discover actual user impressions, leading to rapid correction. (Bill, 19:53–21:45)

Building Beloved B2B Brands

• Look, sound & act different:
  • Most B2B brands play it “super safe, super conservative… it was really hard to differentiate.” (Bill, 22:44)
  • Emulates B2C in editorial voice, visual identity, joyful and helpful content, even mascots.
  • Example: Zendesk’s hit content wasn’t about its product, but about customer support hiring challenges.
  • “Your brand isn’t like your logo or your slogan; it’s all these little touchpoints that people have with you.” (Bill, 24:14)
• Resisting pressure to “normalize” into blandness:
  • Even in the enterprise: “People were people, right? A brand that you really love, even in B2B, you tend to talk about more, you tend to spend more with, you don’t attrit as much.” (Bill, 25:46)

Change Management & Alignment

• The hardest part is changing minds:
  • Bill spent much of his time on change management—educating, earning buy-in, working cross-functionally.
  • “It’s all right, you do this, this, this, and this—but it’s like convincing everyone else that this is a new model, and a better way.” (Bill, 27:19)
• Shared Metrics combat siloing:
  • “When I’ve seen marketing and sales teams share the same metric... they really work together much more.” (Bill, 29:49)
  • Encourages regular inter-team socialization: “Get to know these other, you know, internal stakeholders… become a true partner.” (Bill, 31:31)

AI’s Transformative Potential

• AI as force-multiplier for marketers:
  • “AI is fundamentally changing and making us all like, super marketers, to be honest.” (Bill, 33:02)
  • All marketing functions can (and should) be AI-augmented—programmatic buying, content updates, attribution, etc.
  • Unique voice/tone still matters: “If you just ask in a really generic way… everyone’s going to have the same homepage.”
• Encouraging experimentation:
  • Leaders should “give your team cover” for AI-driven mistakes: “It might hallucinate… it’s okay. We’re going to make some mistakes as we lean into this.” (Bill, 36:13)
• Embracing—rather than fearing—automation:
  • “If you’re helping your company grow faster, that’s something that’s always going to be in demand. Trying to resist using [AI] isn’t a winning playbook in the long run.” (Bill, 36:51)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On capital-efficient growth:
  “Anyone can buy growth, but how do you get it like capital efficiently?” (Bill Masaitis, 03:38)

• On customer journeys:
  “You don’t just see a billboard and go buy a six-figure deal the next day… these are journeys.” (Bill, 16:25)

• On risky, lovable B2B brands:
  “My time in B2C really taught me like, hey, you have to be different… I want a brand that has a very unique editorial tone and voice, a very unique visual identity.” (Bill, 22:44)

• On the challenges of change:
  “It’s like convincing everyone else that this is a new model, it’s a better way of doing it... Now of course, once the metrics all start going up and to the right, it gets a lot easier to get that buy in. But initially, that’s hard.” (Bill, 27:19)

• On AI’s impact:
  “AI is fundamentally changing and making us all like, super marketers, to be honest.” (Bill, 33:02)
  “Leaders should ‘give your team cover’ for AI-driven mistakes: ‘It might hallucinate… it’s okay. We’re going to make some mistakes as we lean into this.’” (Bill, 36:13)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:19] - Bill’s early marketing journey; B2C/B2B crossover
• [03:38] - Capital efficiency lesson; scrappy marketing for growth
• [05:55] - DIY learning in SEO and parallels with today’s AI tools
• [07:29] - Why and how to operationalize customer-centricity
• [09:54] - Aligning customer-centricity with metrics and capital efficiency
• [10:53] - The importance of metrics (NRR, NPS) in driving behavior and culture
• [13:23] - Making customer-centric playbooks work for AI startups and mature organizations
• [16:25] - Broken attribution models and what to do instead
• [19:53] - Testing for the ‘why’: Salesforce’s “social enterprise” homepage
• [22:44] - Building B2B brands with personality and humanity
• [27:19] - Leading change management: Courage and buy-in for new playbooks
• [29:49] - Cross-functional collaboration: Marketing, product, finance, and beyond
• [33:02] - AI’s role for super-marketers: adoption and mindset shifts
• [36:13] - Embracing imperfection as AI is adopted
• [36:51] - Staying optimistic and proactive with AI’s potential
• [38:24] - Where to learn more from Bill (SaaS CMO Pro, YouTube, LinkedIn)

Final Takeaways

• Customer-centricity isn’t lip service:
  It’s a long-term, cross-functional commitment—requiring aligned metrics, organizational buy-in, and relentless curiosity.

• AI rewards the creatively curious:
  Marketers who experiment and learn—rather than just copy-paste from templates—gain career and business leverage.

• Bold brands win hearts and markets:
  Even in B2B, those that dare to be different, useful, and human stand out.

Find more insights from Bill Masaitis at SaaSCMO.pro or on YouTube
For more episodes, show notes, and clips, visit usertesting.com/podcast