← Insights Unlocked
Insights Unlocked
How smart content drives better customer experiences
00:22:23
Discover how smart content improves customer experiences. Learn UX writing best practices, content testing tips, and AI’s role in CX from industry experts.
Loading summary
Transcript34 lines
- [00:02]
Bobby Wood
Welcome back to the Insights Unlocked podcast. In this episode, we're exploring how great content drives better customer experiences, boost engagement, and strengthens brand loyalty. Industry experts Bobby Wood, Natalie Dunbar and Kelly Erickson share insights on content strategy, testing and the role of AI in crafting clear, impactful messaging. Whether you're in marketing, CX or ux, you'll take away practical tips to connect with your audience and improve their journey. Enjoy the show.
- [00:36]
Natalie Dunbar
Welcome to Insights Unlocked, an original podcast from User Testing, where we bring you candid conversations and stories with the thinkers, viewers and builders behind some of the most successful digital products and experiences in the world. From concept to execution.
- [00:54]
Kelly Erickson
What keeps me up at night? I think the speed and rate of change of technology is crazy. So, yeah, I think we're in a period of hyper growth on the technology side, and that's something that is sort of going to manifest over the next five or ten years in interesting ways, I think.
- [01:17]
Janelle
Do you think most companies inherently understand the value of having good content, good writing, and, you know, vetting design with actual humans? I do.
- [01:30]
Kelly Erickson
The smart ones and the successful ones at least. Right? You ignore your customer and your research at your own peril. And these days UX has very much proven its return on investment. Like the value is very clear. Companies who listen to customers and respond to customers and build for customers to solve problems are really the ones that are succeeding.
- [01:54]
Janelle
So speaking of content designers and content writers, when employees are employers or companies teams looking to hire somebody as a content strategist, what are they typically looking for? Like what makes a good UX content strategist or writer?
- [02:16]
Kelly Erickson
So an interesting thing that is actually hard to teach. Speaking of online learning and teaching, it's very hard to teach what UX writers are absolutely best at. And that is both looking at content and narrative on a macro level. So sort of looking at storytelling and cohesiveness between products or between devices or interaction modes. And then the other side of the coin for UX writing is zooming all the way into specific word choice and little tiny microcopy. So, you know, you've got this marriage of broad content strategy with tiny structured word choice and essential communication. So I love that part of it.
- [03:07]
Janelle
Yeah, yeah.
- [03:08]
Kelly Erickson
Macro and micro.
- [03:09]
Janelle
I love that. It's like a really nice visualization too. Thinking sort of like big thinking big picture, like you said, across channels or experiences or products and then down into the tiny little word choices that seem tiny but actually are really have huge impact, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I remember the notion of microcopy and even testing different calls to action, for example, to see which one is actually going to drive more engagement. We actually had customers that have before they've actually gone live with a design they before they a B test. Like in some cases, they'll have two or three options that they'll put out. The design will be exactly the same, the interaction is exactly the same. The only thing that's different is the word that they use on the button.
- [04:00]
Kelly Erickson
Yes.
- [04:01]
Janelle
And what they do is they put like eight versions of it through user testing or at least get initial feedback from people to say, okay, which one are people, which ones are people gravitating towards the most, or which ones are resonating the most? So when we do push them out to ab that these are the best two or three out of the eight teen that we're thinking of because there's no, no shortage of options.
- [04:26]
Kelly Erickson
Yeah. And the interesting thing is that testing is always compelling and interesting and fun, but it can't stop there. Right. So once your user clicks through on that, you know the button that, that created the highest level of engagement, did that button also keep the user moving forward through the next three screens? Right. So like that one isolated interaction, you might be like, yes, we have a winner. We know the words, the key words. But it's really the testing has to continue through the whole experience so that you really understand the flow and the success and of the task completion.
- [05:11]
Candy Williams
What's been unique about content design compared to other design disciplines in your perspective, can you share an example from your industry that illustrates the differences between your ways of working as a content designer and those of other forms of design?
- [05:28]
Brene Brown
For sure. I mean, when it comes to content design, we really think about the words. To borrow an example from Candy Williams, her talk at Config a few years ago, you strip away the words, you don't really have much left in the design. So it's really focusing on those words and not just like what the words are themselves. That's a big part of it. We want to use the right words. We want to speak to people in a way that they understand, is intuitive and I mean, just sounds human, just not like a robot. We're normal people right behind these screens. But that those words also appear in a way that makes sense. Right. It's a fine balance between, you know, wanting to give someone all the information in a specific moment so they know exactly what to do next and where they're going. And, like, things are going to be okay to also just like, what do they actually need to know to take that Next step to accomplish the task and presenting it in a way that makes sense is clear. You know, another. I'm going to quote some other people here, but like Brene Brown, clear is kind. So, like, how do we make it as clear as possible so that it's as kind and easy for the user as possible? Content strategy is a term that can be very broad and you're focusing on the UX part of that.
- [06:51]
User Researcher
I mean, I'm a purist, as you probably are well aware. There's content design, there's UX writing, there's content marketing strategy. When we talk about content strategy from a UX point of view, we're talking about getting the right content to the right people in the right format at the right time. We're always looking to be joined, as I like to say, joined at the hip with the UX designer and researcher in everything that we do, because we want to make sure that not only what we create resonates with users, but that is actually useful. We're not always talking about the actual words that appear within a digital experience. We're sometimes not even writing. In my current role, I do a fair amount of UX writing, but I've had roles of the content strategy lead where I didn't do any writing at all. There was a separate team that we would hand off to. We're talking about what thing or format do we need for the content to be expressed in? And I should say as an aside, by content, again, not just words, but what visual elements? Infographic or video? Or should we have a long block of text or should it be a bulleted list? All those kinds of things that we learn from partnering with research and partnering with visual design and understanding what it is that the user is looking for in order to complete a task. Also elements like wayfinding, which kind of overlap with the information architecture. But we're also very concerned in how do we label things. What are the top tasks that people are looking to complete when they come to a site, when they use an app?
- [08:43]
Brene Brown
If.
- [08:43]
Janelle
If I'm a writer and I want to get something out into the world, whether it's through my company's website or maybe some other way that I'm communicating. Like, how do you like, I guess, for. For lack of a better word, how do you, like, user test it?
- [08:59]
Kelly Erickson
How do you test it? Oh, my gosh. So that. That is. That's a hard question. So there's. There are comprehension tests, like closed testing, C, L, O, Z, E. And I know, of course, you know all about this, Janelle, because you're at user testing, but, you know, there. There are comprehension tests that you can use, and even basic usability testing is absolutely key. One of the things I always teach when I'm talking about usability testing is that when your user stops talking, that's when you start listening. So when that user has stopped talking, they've probably got that, you know, the hamster wheel is turning in their head, and they're trying to figure out what the heck they're reading. They're trying to process and so to understand, you know, whether or not your words are simple enough, your sentences are short enough, your instructions are clear and almost obvious.
- [10:01]
User Researcher
Right?
- [10:01]
Kelly Erickson
We want them to be so obvious that the user almost doesn't remember reading them. So if the user stops and you've hit a wall of silence, that's when to ask the user, okay, what's going on now? You didn't. You know, something's happening. You're not understanding. Your expectation didn't match what happened. You're not sure what your next right action should.
- [10:28]
Candy Williams
You've seen all kinds of content and experiences. So how do you think about what needs to be tested first? And what are the factors that really stand out to you in that decision process?
- [10:42]
Brene Brown
Yeah, well, it depends. It depends what we know about our users. It depends what information that we already have. There's actually a project that I picked up right away in my job at Warner here. You know, it's been nine days, but already I was kind of picked one up, and it was nice because it's just a way to get into the product. But, you know, I was asking a lot of questions. I was trying to figure out what's the best way to, like, even just write this. Like, the first, it wasn't the headline of the page, but it was like the first header of a section. And it's like, okay, well, what's the right language here? So I was like, what do I know about my users? What information do we already have? What have we already tested? And of course, I'm coming into this in the middle of it versus the start. But all these questions are still really paramount when you're entering any project, even no matter the phase, like, what do you already know? Once you identify what you already know, that's when you can kind of prioritize from there what sort of testing work might work best. Like, if you already have a bunch of information on your users, what their needs are, the motivations, I mean, sometimes you might be able to move right to something like an AB testing where it's like, okay, I know I've got a couple different phrases, so let's just see which one works right away in product. But if, like in the example of the checkout test that I mentioned earlier, the order form, where it's like, I don't really know what is the best motivating message here, we got to take that and ask first. So kind of with that in mind, with that prioritization. Prioritization in mind. I mean, a lot of times as content designers, we just get a design and it's like, okay, add the words. But I have found it's moments when we're able to really test the messaging first. No matter what that looks like, that that has a big influence on the design and can really kind of shape what that flow might look like. Like, when are we, you know, surfacing a message? What does that message look like, and how does that link to a next step? So, yeah, the prioritization just. It depends on the state of the project and what you know about your users and kind of where you can go next. How do you insert user research into your process? I'm curious.
- [13:03]
User Researcher
I have been lucky. I've worn that hat before. I've kind of come full circle. I started as a digital content writer. I was a product manager, I was a user researcher, and I came right back around the content. I think these days it's so wonderful that we can work in tools that help us create early prototypes and we can use actual content and we can see if we label this this way, if we have this information as a how to, does it make sense for people? And we can be right there in lockstep with research, observing the research experience. But also even in creating the scripts for the research that's going to be done, a lot of times I've been in situations in the past where we're being more prescriptive or some of our partners are being more prescriptive about what they want in a prototype. And we actually will say, well, let's strip it back. And in some cases, let's ask the user what they would call this thing. Let's ask the user, how would you search for something? Where do you think this thing should live? And we'll be part of that, structuring that research, and then also too, making sure that once the research readout is done, that anything that touches content, that we're making those changes before the experience is fully baked and ready to be launched.
- [14:38]
Janelle
Can you kind of summarize for listeners your Thoughts on how AI will impact UX writing.
- [14:44]
Kelly Erickson
Wow. Okay, so that is. That's a big question that I might have five different answers for. I think a lot of it is, is tbd. And what I mean by that is that we are now in this kind of nascent phase where we're trying to understand what AI is capable of. And what it's capable of is hugely powerful. It's blown past our 10 years ago idea of what a Turing Test might involve. Computers AI can already sound like a human. It easily can pass itself off as being a person. The question is, is it smart enough to sustain a conversation? Is it smart enough to adapt when it's given guidance from a human? And sort of, you know, when we think of AI now, these language models are very sophisticated and they're trained on these massive training body bodies of training data, and so they can imitate human communication quite well. But there are a lot of nuances to human communication that it cannot address yet, and it'll probably get there. So, you know, the interesting thing is on the TBD is what direction will it go and who's directing it and who's teaching it.
- [16:17]
Brene Brown
Right.
- [16:17]
Kelly Erickson
These are all big questions today.
- [16:23]
Candy Williams
How do you think about weighing that consistency against the personalization that is kind of needed in digital experiences today?
- [16:33]
Brene Brown
Yeah, that's a wonderful question. And I think one of the biggest things as a contact designer, and I mean, I'm certainly going through right now is really learning the voice of the brand that you're working with. And ultimately, and I think this is the case for most brands, is sounding like a human, as I kind of alluded to earlier. So that's always going to be kind of one of the main, like, principles that I think most brands will be working with. But yeah, the consistency really comes down to that knowing the voice and like, what you're trying to do. And, you know, I think a lot of voice guidance will say like, we're this, not that. So, you know, trying to, you know, not fall into being like, too cheesy if, you know, it's like ecliptic or something. So, yeah, so there's that. And within the voice you have all your different tones that you're. You're able to work with. I like to think of it as like a dial almost where, like, if it's really toned down, if you're down on like one or zero, you're probably in a more neutral tone space where. And that might be really good for more informational moments. And then if you dial that up, where you're maybe more friendly. You know, that's more like those introductory moments where you're just really trying to establish a relationship with the user and then you could dial it all the way up to where it's like it is your most intense tone that you have and it's really, really toned up and like, yeah, that you're just really being out there. Like your most personal self, I guess or in the words of the brand, the most like personality the brand is going to show. And those are moments are like fewer and far between. But those can be some of the most fun moments to write for. But yeah, so that consistency is just really like really knowing the tone that you work with. And then of course also the words that you use. At my team on Eventbrite and I'm already starting to do this at Warner, like creating a word list or term document of just like. These are the terms we use. They're industry standard. Like, you know, does the audience know them? Kind of going through that practice of just like, what is the terms and the language that we're going to use that our users understand and like is their version of plain language. I think those kind of two things. So between the voice and tone and this terms practice, those are some of the most powerful things you can do to ensure that you A sound like yourself consistently and B, are you using that language that's going to really speak to your audience and your users?
- [19:30]
User Researcher
We're getting a lot into conversational design with AI and chatbots and things like that. What are ways that we talk about voice and tone? We're not just talking about grammar and the way we say things, but how does tone need to shift for the different user types and Personas that we have those kinds of nuances which our partners in marketing do consider. But from our standpoint, we're deeply embedded in the practice of UX and totally focused on being that advocate for the user throughout from the end to end experience.
- [20:06]
Brene Brown
Why is it important to have a content strategy plan and how early should that content strategist be rolled into a project?
- [20:13]
User Researcher
Oh my goodness. That is a thing that continues to be not debated, but it's just a conversation that is always present. How soon is too soon? I like to be involved in pre kickoffs. Even when there's a concept for an idea for a product or a service, depending on what kind of vertical you work in, I want to be able to understand what it is that we're trying to create. Or maybe we're, I don't know, maybe we're redesigning an experience and there's a need to go in and audit, take an inventory and audit of the existing content current state to see if it matches future state goals. We need to do that really before the kickoff. So if it's like an idea, we know that we're getting leadership buy in, we can go and start dabbling and trying to figure out what do we have, how much content do we have right now, is it going to fit that future state need? Then once as the requirements are being fleshed out to the point that we have a product requirements document that is fully baked, we're not surprised by what's coming. We've already got an idea of what's happening. Then when there's an official kickoff and all the disciplines are at the table, we already know where we're going to need to go with whatever plan we have for content strategy. So the earlier the Better is the TLDR short version of that answer, the earlier the better. And if it's too early, we'll let you know.
- [21:51]
Natalie Dunbar
Want to keep the conversation going? You can find the show notes@usertesting.com podcast if you haven't already, don't forget to follow us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Overcast or Google Play, so you never miss an episode. And if you enjoyed today's show, please share it with a friend or leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And until next time, this is Insights. Unlike Locked, an original podcast from User Testing.