Podcast Summary: Innovation-ish – Practical Tools for Everyday Innovators

Podcast: Insights Unlocked
Host: Jason Giles (VP of Design, UserTesting) with Producer Nathan Isaacs
Guests: Dr. Tessa Forshall (Cognitive Scientist; Co-founder, Harvard Next Level Lab) & Rich Braden (Design Strategist, Improv Specialist)
Date: November 24, 2025
Theme: How to make innovation more human, less intimidating, and accessible—featuring practical strategies, mindsets, and tools from the authors of "Innovation-ish: How Anyone Can Create Breakthrough Solutions to Real Problems in the Real World."

Episode Overview

This episode explores demystifying innovation and making creative problem-solving an everyday, accessible activity for teams and individuals. Drawing on cognitive science, design thinking, improv, and years of teaching innovation at top universities, Tessa Forshall and Rich Braden advocate breaking the innovation process into manageable, approachable tools—empathizing with users, using practical frameworks to reduce risk, and making “innovative thinking” part of team culture at all levels.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Demystifying Innovation & Overcoming ‘Innovation Hesitation’

The Myth of the Innovator:
- Most people perceive "innovators" as iconic figures like Edison or Musk (08:06)
- 90% of surveyed adults named only five (Edison, Einstein, Gates, Musk, Zuckerberg) when asked who’s an innovator
- This elite model creates a barrier for others
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [08:07]: “...there was this very clear vision of what an innovator looks like. Where it happens in places like Silicon Valley or New Yorkshire, but also if not in those places, at least in special buildings with fancy rooms and post it notes and...archetypes.”
Evolutionary Roots of Hesitation:
- Fear of social exclusion and ambiguity is hard-wired (10:00)
- The amygdala triggers anxiety when facing uncertainty/innovation, though most “risks” are trivial
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [10:59]:
  “We often get into an innovative situation...and we either hear innovation and then we assume that means like risk and ambiguity and putting ourselves out there. And the amygdala starts ramping up...But the truth is...innovation won’t result in a bear eating you in Yosemite National Park.”

2. Broadening the Definition of Innovation: Types of “Shots”

Innovation Is Not Just Moonshots:
- Most people think of “innovation” only as massive, world-changing ideas
- Rich Braden introduces a framework of “shots”:
  - Jump shot: Small, incremental feature addition
  - Roof shot: Combination of features; significant upgrades
  - Cloud shot: Extending to new platforms or broader reach
  - Orbit shot: Category-defining, field-shifting innovations
  - Moonshot: Breakthrough, paradigm-shifting aspirations
- Quote — Rich Braden [13:44]:
  “I think many people default by thinking, if it's innovation, it is gigantic. Like moon, we're going to the moon in 10 years...But that's not the whole total of innovation. If it was that, I would be intimidated after all of my experience teaching it.”
Real-world Example (NEOM, Saudi Arabia):
- Even the most ambitious projects (“The Line”—moonshot city) require many supporting “cloud”, “roof”, and “jump” shots to function (15:00)
- Innovation is a layered ecosystem of big and small advances.

3. Empathy & Human Understanding at the Core

Empathy Engages Your Brain Differently:
- Teams often resist going into the world to “just talk” to users
- True empathy rewires your cognitive pathways, leading to deeper insights and re-evaluation of assumptions (19:00)
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [20:25]:
  “Empathy activates neural pathways that allow us to suspend assumptions and to deeply understand others’ experiences...”
- Empathic interaction is both a practical tool and a supercharger for creativity
Social & Value Barriers to Empathy:
- Social anxiety, Covid-era behavior shifts, and convenience all play a role in avoiding direct contact with users (22:00–24:00)
- Teams default to less effortful methods (e.g. surveys) unless they have experienced the “aha” moment themselves

4. Finding True Insights—Beyond Shallow Feedback

Distinguishing Insight from Opinion:
- Avoid biases—confirmation bias, bandwagon effect, attachment to the first data point (25:50)
- Seek corroborated findings and identify surprises, contradictions
- Quote — Rich Braden [28:40]:
  “Anything we used moving forward had at least three or four different sources where we had found the same thing...that’s when we start to get ‘this insight might be a little more durable…’”
- Example: In a restaurant chain’s supply chain, lack of trust in data was a repeated theme, not just anecdotal.

5. Prototyping & Testing: Evidence Over Opinion

Low-risk, Evidence-based Prototyping:
- Build simple, high-signal, low-cost tests early; real action beats opinion polls
- Example: Build a website for a fictional product, see if people actually "click to buy" or submit information (30:40)
- Modern tools (AI) make rapid prototyping easier and cheaper
- Quote — Rich Braden [30:40]:
  “The guiding principle here is that evidence over opinion. You want data when you are testing and then you want to make a lot of small prototypes and test lots of different things very quickly and expect that many or most are going to fail.”

6. Metacognition—Thinking About Your Own Thinking

Metacognition in Action:
- Don’t just look back—pause mid-project to reflect on thinking, strategies, biases
- Scheduled, mini-retros in real time create better outcomes
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [38:26]:
  “Metacognition in action is really this idea that you are thinking about your thinking and therefore adjusting and navigating and changing what you're doing in the course of doing it.”
- Simple prompts:
  - “Last time I faced a problem like this, what did I do?”
  - “Am I weighting one voice more than others?”
  - “Am I hunting for evidence of my favorite idea?”
- Teams practicing this produce more ideas, and more novel solutions (37:30; Study: University of Kentucky)

7. Favorite Creative Problem-Solving Moves/Tools

Brainstorming Levers:
- Apply constraints or personas to jumpstart creativity
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [42:44]:
  “Throwing in different things into your brainstorm...thinking different Personas…You’re able to find new connections between them.”
Collaborative Frameworking:
- Team mapping via 2x2s or matrix frameworks encourages knowledge sharing and surfaces unexpected solutions (44:00)
Storytelling For Influence & Buy-in:
- The “Story Spine” for communicating ideas (from improv, now Pixar):
  - Once upon a time...
  - Every day...
  - But one day...
  - Because of that, ...
  - Until finally...
  - Ever since that day...
- Structure helps clarify and align complex ideas, ensuring team and stakeholder engagement
- Quote — Rich Braden [46:40]:
  “If you can't tell a simple, straightforward story...you don't really understand the idea yet. So it's a good litmus test...”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Cognitive Barriers:
- Tessa Forshall [10:59]: “...the amygdala starts ramping up its role and engaging a lot of these cognitive processes that evolutionarily have been really helpful. But...99.9% of the time, innovation won’t result in a bear eating you…”
On Everyone’s Role in Innovation:
- Rich Braden [18:12]: “It reminds me of...the janitor at NASA and somebody says, what are you doing? And they're like cleaning up, saying, we're putting a person on the moon. Right. Like they're invested in and their contribution is critical for everything else to work.”
On Prototyping:
- Rich Braden [30:40]: “The guiding principle here is that evidence over opinion. You want data...test lots of different things very quickly and expect that many or most are going to fail.”
On the Power of Metacognition:
- Tessa Forshall [38:26]: “Metacognition in action is really this idea that you are thinking about your thinking and therefore adjusting...what you're doing in the course of doing it.”
On Storytelling as a Tool:
- Rich Braden [46:40]: “If you can't tell a simple, straightforward story...you don't really understand the idea yet.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

[02:05–05:35] Guest backgrounds and philosophy on innovation
[06:30] Why write the book? Student demand and lack of practical resources
[07:21–11:43] “Innovation hesitation”—roots, survey of innovators, evolutionary psychology
[12:38–18:12] ‘Shots’ metaphor for types of innovation; NEOM example; scaling innovation
[19:14–24:50] Empathy’s neurological power; barriers to user engagement
[25:50–30:04] What real insight looks like, avoiding bias, example from quick service restaurant
[30:40–35:35] Rapid, evidence-led prototyping; minimizing risk; AI’s impact
[36:08–41:47] Practicing metacognition in real-time
[42:44–45:14] Brainstorm levers, collaborative frameworks for sparking creativity
[45:35–48:51] Role of storytelling in innovation buy-in
[49:31–51:16] Where listeners can learn more/find book/resources

Actionable Takeaways

Reframe innovation as a spectrum, not only “moonshots”; use the “shots” taxonomy in team vocabulary
Make empathy non-negotiable—direct customer/user contact leads to deeper, faster insights
Regularly practice metacognition; prompt teams to step back and question assumptions in real time
Use constraints/personas to energize brainstorming sessions
Prototype and test quickly with real-world signals, not hypothetical surveys
Employ clear storytelling frameworks (like Story Spine) to align teams and win support

Resources Mentioned

Book: Innovation-ish (available wherever books are sold, and via innovationish.com)
Substack: substack.innovation-ish.com
Harvard Next Level Lab (for Tessa’s academic work)

This episode offers a powerful set of mindsets and tools for leaders and practitioners seeking to infuse continuous innovation into their work, grounded in the sciences of cognition, collaboration, and creativity. If you want innovation to feel more human—and achieve better outcomes—these are the actionable strategies to start today.

Podcast Summary: Innovation-ish – Practical Tools for Everyday Innovators

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Demystifying Innovation & Overcoming ‘Innovation Hesitation’

The Myth of the Innovator:
- Most people perceive "innovators" as iconic figures like Edison or Musk (08:06)
- 90% of surveyed adults named only five (Edison, Einstein, Gates, Musk, Zuckerberg) when asked who’s an innovator
- This elite model creates a barrier for others
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [08:07]: “...there was this very clear vision of what an innovator looks like. Where it happens in places like Silicon Valley or New Yorkshire, but also if not in those places, at least in special buildings with fancy rooms and post it notes and...archetypes.”
Evolutionary Roots of Hesitation:
- Fear of social exclusion and ambiguity is hard-wired (10:00)
- The amygdala triggers anxiety when facing uncertainty/innovation, though most “risks” are trivial
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [10:59]:
  “We often get into an innovative situation...and we either hear innovation and then we assume that means like risk and ambiguity and putting ourselves out there. And the amygdala starts ramping up...But the truth is...innovation won’t result in a bear eating you in Yosemite National Park.”

2. Broadening the Definition of Innovation: Types of “Shots”

Innovation Is Not Just Moonshots:
- Most people think of “innovation” only as massive, world-changing ideas
- Rich Braden introduces a framework of “shots”:
  - Jump shot: Small, incremental feature addition
  - Roof shot: Combination of features; significant upgrades
  - Cloud shot: Extending to new platforms or broader reach
  - Orbit shot: Category-defining, field-shifting innovations
  - Moonshot: Breakthrough, paradigm-shifting aspirations
- Quote — Rich Braden [13:44]:
  “I think many people default by thinking, if it's innovation, it is gigantic. Like moon, we're going to the moon in 10 years...But that's not the whole total of innovation. If it was that, I would be intimidated after all of my experience teaching it.”
Real-world Example (NEOM, Saudi Arabia):
- Even the most ambitious projects (“The Line”—moonshot city) require many supporting “cloud”, “roof”, and “jump” shots to function (15:00)
- Innovation is a layered ecosystem of big and small advances.

3. Empathy & Human Understanding at the Core

Empathy Engages Your Brain Differently:
- Teams often resist going into the world to “just talk” to users
- True empathy rewires your cognitive pathways, leading to deeper insights and re-evaluation of assumptions (19:00)
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [20:25]:
  “Empathy activates neural pathways that allow us to suspend assumptions and to deeply understand others’ experiences...”
- Empathic interaction is both a practical tool and a supercharger for creativity
Social & Value Barriers to Empathy:
- Social anxiety, Covid-era behavior shifts, and convenience all play a role in avoiding direct contact with users (22:00–24:00)
- Teams default to less effortful methods (e.g. surveys) unless they have experienced the “aha” moment themselves

4. Finding True Insights—Beyond Shallow Feedback

Distinguishing Insight from Opinion:
- Avoid biases—confirmation bias, bandwagon effect, attachment to the first data point (25:50)
- Seek corroborated findings and identify surprises, contradictions
- Quote — Rich Braden [28:40]:
  “Anything we used moving forward had at least three or four different sources where we had found the same thing...that’s when we start to get ‘this insight might be a little more durable…’”
- Example: In a restaurant chain’s supply chain, lack of trust in data was a repeated theme, not just anecdotal.

5. Prototyping & Testing: Evidence Over Opinion

Low-risk, Evidence-based Prototyping:
- Build simple, high-signal, low-cost tests early; real action beats opinion polls
- Example: Build a website for a fictional product, see if people actually "click to buy" or submit information (30:40)
- Modern tools (AI) make rapid prototyping easier and cheaper
- Quote — Rich Braden [30:40]:
  “The guiding principle here is that evidence over opinion. You want data when you are testing and then you want to make a lot of small prototypes and test lots of different things very quickly and expect that many or most are going to fail.”

6. Metacognition—Thinking About Your Own Thinking

Metacognition in Action:
- Don’t just look back—pause mid-project to reflect on thinking, strategies, biases
- Scheduled, mini-retros in real time create better outcomes
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [38:26]:
  “Metacognition in action is really this idea that you are thinking about your thinking and therefore adjusting and navigating and changing what you're doing in the course of doing it.”
- Simple prompts:
  - “Last time I faced a problem like this, what did I do?”
  - “Am I weighting one voice more than others?”
  - “Am I hunting for evidence of my favorite idea?”
- Teams practicing this produce more ideas, and more novel solutions (37:30; Study: University of Kentucky)

7. Favorite Creative Problem-Solving Moves/Tools

Brainstorming Levers:
- Apply constraints or personas to jumpstart creativity
- Quote — Tessa Forshall [42:44]:
  “Throwing in different things into your brainstorm...thinking different Personas…You’re able to find new connections between them.”
Collaborative Frameworking:
- Team mapping via 2x2s or matrix frameworks encourages knowledge sharing and surfaces unexpected solutions (44:00)
Storytelling For Influence & Buy-in:
- The “Story Spine” for communicating ideas (from improv, now Pixar):
  - Once upon a time...
  - Every day...
  - But one day...
  - Because of that, ...
  - Until finally...
  - Ever since that day...
- Structure helps clarify and align complex ideas, ensuring team and stakeholder engagement
- Quote — Rich Braden [46:40]:
  “If you can't tell a simple, straightforward story...you don't really understand the idea yet. So it's a good litmus test...”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Cognitive Barriers:
- Tessa Forshall [10:59]: “...the amygdala starts ramping up its role and engaging a lot of these cognitive processes that evolutionarily have been really helpful. But...99.9% of the time, innovation won’t result in a bear eating you…”
On Everyone’s Role in Innovation:
- Rich Braden [18:12]: “It reminds me of...the janitor at NASA and somebody says, what are you doing? And they're like cleaning up, saying, we're putting a person on the moon. Right. Like they're invested in and their contribution is critical for everything else to work.”
On Prototyping:
- Rich Braden [30:40]: “The guiding principle here is that evidence over opinion. You want data...test lots of different things very quickly and expect that many or most are going to fail.”
On the Power of Metacognition:
- Tessa Forshall [38:26]: “Metacognition in action is really this idea that you are thinking about your thinking and therefore adjusting...what you're doing in the course of doing it.”
On Storytelling as a Tool:
- Rich Braden [46:40]: “If you can't tell a simple, straightforward story...you don't really understand the idea yet.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

[02:05–05:35] Guest backgrounds and philosophy on innovation
[06:30] Why write the book? Student demand and lack of practical resources
[07:21–11:43] “Innovation hesitation”—roots, survey of innovators, evolutionary psychology
[12:38–18:12] ‘Shots’ metaphor for types of innovation; NEOM example; scaling innovation
[19:14–24:50] Empathy’s neurological power; barriers to user engagement
[25:50–30:04] What real insight looks like, avoiding bias, example from quick service restaurant
[30:40–35:35] Rapid, evidence-led prototyping; minimizing risk; AI’s impact
[36:08–41:47] Practicing metacognition in real-time
[42:44–45:14] Brainstorm levers, collaborative frameworks for sparking creativity
[45:35–48:51] Role of storytelling in innovation buy-in
[49:31–51:16] Where listeners can learn more/find book/resources

Actionable Takeaways

Reframe innovation as a spectrum, not only “moonshots”; use the “shots” taxonomy in team vocabulary
Make empathy non-negotiable—direct customer/user contact leads to deeper, faster insights
Regularly practice metacognition; prompt teams to step back and question assumptions in real time
Use constraints/personas to energize brainstorming sessions
Prototype and test quickly with real-world signals, not hypothetical surveys
Employ clear storytelling frameworks (like Story Spine) to align teams and win support

Resources Mentioned

Book: Innovation-ish (available wherever books are sold, and via innovationish.com)
Substack: substack.innovation-ish.com
Harvard Next Level Lab (for Tessa’s academic work)

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Innovation-ish: Practical tools for everyday innovators

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Summary

Podcast Summary: Innovation-ish – Practical Tools for Everyday Innovators

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Demystifying Innovation & Overcoming ‘Innovation Hesitation’

2. Broadening the Definition of Innovation: Types of “Shots”

3. Empathy & Human Understanding at the Core

4. Finding True Insights—Beyond Shallow Feedback

5. Prototyping & Testing: Evidence Over Opinion

6. Metacognition—Thinking About Your Own Thinking

7. Favorite Creative Problem-Solving Moves/Tools

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Actionable Takeaways

Resources Mentioned

Summary

Podcast Summary: Innovation-ish – Practical Tools for Everyday Innovators

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Demystifying Innovation & Overcoming ‘Innovation Hesitation’

2. Broadening the Definition of Innovation: Types of “Shots”

3. Empathy & Human Understanding at the Core

4. Finding True Insights—Beyond Shallow Feedback

5. Prototyping & Testing: Evidence Over Opinion

6. Metacognition—Thinking About Your Own Thinking

7. Favorite Creative Problem-Solving Moves/Tools

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Major Segments

Actionable Takeaways

Resources Mentioned