Insights Unlocked: "Optimize with Empathy — Gwen Hammes on Turning Behavior into Brand Impact"

Podcast: Insights Unlocked
Guest: Gwen Hammes, Co-CEO of Chrometrics
Host: Nathan Isaacs
Release Date: August 25, 2025
Length: ~30 minutes

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the evolving landscape of customer experience (CX) and marketing with Gwen Hammes, Co-CEO of Chrometrics. Gwen shares how her career journey—spanning creative agencies and growth experimentation—has shaped her insights on connecting creativity, data, and behavioral understanding to create brands that resonate and campaigns that drive measurable results. The conversation explores the impact of cultural diversity, behavioral insights, the realities of organizational silos, embracing AI and experimentation, and the importance of empathy and mentorship in leadership. Actionable strategies and memorable stories highlight how marketing leaders can design experiences that reflect real customer needs in a rapidly changing environment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. From Creative Agencies to Growth Experimentation

(01:21 - 02:14)

• Gwen explains her shift from traditional creative roles to a data-driven, outcome-focused approach:

  “Clients... have had greater pressure to show tangible results in a shorter amount of time. … I wanted to focus more on... how do I tangibly connect people to purchase, to make that impact that can be measurable and... catapult businesses and brands forward.”
  — Gwen Hammes (01:38)

2. How Culture Shapes Brand Experience & Leadership

(02:24 - 05:05)

• Gwen’s experience living and working in Mexico profoundly impacted her leadership style.

  • She contrasts the “orderly, procedural” American approach with the “ingenuity and grit” common in Mexican workplaces, emphasizing creativity under constraint.
  • Memorable cultural anecdotes, such as the Mexican Spanish phrase “ahorita” (which humorously never really means ‘now’), illustrate how cultural nuances affect problem solving and expectations.

  “In Mexico, there is this combination of ingenuity and grit and perseverance and stop at nothing… They just get after it. … It’s been kind of one of the most powerful elements in my own leadership style.”
  — Gwen Hammes (02:34)

3. Rethinking Conversion Optimization: Beyond Tactics to Behavioral Insights

(05:05 - 08:56)

• Conversion optimization is “often seen as tactical… very non-creative,” but Gwen reframes it as a source of critical behavioral insights.

• She advocates for surfacing “down-funnel” learnings to broader brand strategy, citing the danger of siloed organizational structures.

• Real-world observation: Even huge brands struggle to deliver cohesive customer experiences due to siloed teams.

  “Consumers don’t know which person, which agency, which partner worked on what part of the experience. They just know how that feels.”
  — Gwen Hammes (06:30)

• Gwen highlights the measurable impact of “symmetrical messaging”—ensuring alignment between paid media and on-site experience.

  "Some of the lowest hanging fruit... is symmetrical messaging. ...Is your paid media driving to a landing page that is continuing that consumer experience?"
  — Gwen Hammes (08:08)

4. Emotional Levers: Turning Commodity Choices into Memorable Experiences

(08:56 - 12:05)

• Case studies:

  • Skittles: Creativity fueled by user-generated trends (fans making sculptures from candies).
  • Cottonelle: Tapped into overlooked but deeply personal bathroom care behaviors, turning toilet paper from a commodity into a “growth engine” by connecting with real consumer habits.

  “...People were spending time, money, effort, energy, but when it came to their toilet paper, they were literally picking whichever one was on sale. ...If we can associate toilet paper with those behaviors... that can be a huge growth engine for this brand.”
  — Gwen Hammes (11:08)

• Behavioral economics: Don’t invent new behaviors—find, amplify, and emotionally anchor what already exists.

5. Customer Need vs. Shiny Object: Building Capabilities that Matter

(12:05 - 14:13)

• Gwen discusses how Chrometrics expands its offerings in direct response to validated client pain points, not passing trends.
• Example: Experiment-led web redesign evolved organically from CRO work, reducing risk for clients and building organizational confidence.

  “...Sometimes it’s just getting one client to say yes and the minute they do, you see success, you have a case study, you have learning. … You’re getting that positive feedback like this is a good area in which to build.”
  — Gwen Hammes (13:25)

6. Change, Innovation, and Embedding AI: Making the New Less Scary

(14:13 - 18:03)

• Gwen avoids the word “change” due to its negative connotation; prefers transparency and incrementality in introducing new ideas.

• Embedding new tech (like AI) is a “behavior change project.” The key is to seamlessly blend these changes into daily routines, rather than prescribing them top-down.

• Fosters a culture where leaders model explicit AI usage to normalize experimentation and alleviate concerns about authenticity or job security with automation.

  "Half of it is also just putting it out there so that people feel like, oh, it’s okay, it’s encouraged and it’s not… a reflection, like, I'm not doing my work."
  — Gwen Hammes (16:52)

7. Practical Innovation: Bots, Automation, and Talent Strategy

(18:03 - 22:18)

• Internally, Chrometrics automates repetitive tasks (e.g., auto-summarizing earnings calls for clients via custom Slack bots), boosting team efficiency and insight delivery.

  “It’s pretty good. … We're getting to a lot better point where it’s not just summarizing results but really pulling out some of the insights about digital products, digital priorities... so our teams can really be smarter about that business overall.”
  — Gwen Hammes (19:13)

• The “Dynamic Talent Model” alternates between full-time employees and a scalable contractor ring—helping maintain stability and manage workload spikes without destabilizing core teams.

  “…We get more business in, we're ramping up contractors, we have a project that ends, we can ramp them down. …It really shouldn't be something that our team has to be thinking about.”
  — Gwen Hammes (21:13)

8. Staying Focused: ‘Steel Stomach’ Leadership and Customer Value

(22:18 - 24:55)

• Gwen’s philosophy: Prioritize customer value amid market turbulence.
• Watch what consumers do—not just what they say.
  • Example: Walmart’s unexpected premium product move, capitalizing on behavioral shifts in affluent shoppers during economic uncertainty.

  “…I just thought that was kind of a great example of... not just worrying about, oh my gosh, people are going to be pulling back, but really helping to pivot based on some of these different behaviors.”
  — Gwen Hammes (24:38)

9. Mentorship, Empathy, and Uplifting the Next Generation

(25:34 - 27:46)

• Gwen actively mentors (e.g., at Chicago’s 1871 tech hub, Executive Club) and has helped form Chrometrics’ “Women of Growth Marketing” community and an internal future leaders accelerator.
  • Accelerator includes curriculum, mentorship, and real strategic projects: "We just finished our first cohort, we're starting our second one tomorrow... It's even more rewarding to see this next generation be learn and be curious and approach things in a different way..."
    — Gwen Hammes (27:28)

10. Advice for Future Leaders and Designers of Experiences

(27:46 - 29:49)

• Gwen’s advice to her younger self—and to leaders:

  “Put yourself out there. … In terms of creating experiences that matter for teams and customers, it’s really about putting yourself in their shoes and meeting them halfway.”
  — Gwen Hammes (28:23)

• Anecdote about Sam Walton—his personal commitment to understanding the customer by visiting stores—illustrates the power of empathy in leadership.

Notable Quotes

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | | --------- | ----- | ------- | | 01:38 | “I wanted to focus more on... how do I tangibly connect people to purchase, to make that impact that can be measurable and... catapult businesses and brands forward.” | Gwen Hammes | | 02:34 | “In Mexico, there is this combination of ingenuity and grit and perseverance and stop at nothing… They just get after it...” | Gwen Hammes | | 06:30 | “Consumers don’t know which person, which agency, which partner worked on what part of the experience. They just know how that feels.” | Gwen Hammes | | 08:08 | "Some of the lowest hanging fruit... is symmetrical messaging. ...Is your paid media driving to a landing page that is continuing that consumer experience?" | Gwen Hammes | | 11:08 | “If we can associate toilet paper with those behaviors… that can be a huge growth engine for this brand.” | Gwen Hammes | | 13:25 | "...You’re getting that positive feedback like this is a good area in which to build." | Gwen Hammes | | 16:52 | "Half of it is also just putting it out there so that people feel like, oh, it’s okay, it’s encouraged and it’s not… a reflection, like, I'm not doing my work." | Gwen Hammes | | 21:13 | “…We get more business in, we're ramping up contractors... It really shouldn't be something that our team has to be thinking about.” | Gwen Hammes | | 24:38 | “...Really helping to pivot based on some of these different behaviors.” | Gwen Hammes | | 28:23 | “Put yourself out there... it’s really about putting yourself in their shoes and meeting them halfway.” | Gwen Hammes |

Key Segment Timestamps

• 01:21 — Gwen’s career shift: creativity → measurable impact
• 02:31 — Cultural influence on leadership and problem-solving
• 05:36 — Conversion optimization as a behavioral lens
• 08:56 — Unlocking emotion in “unsexy” product categories
• 12:20 — Deciding when to build new capabilities
• 14:37 — Leading teams through innovation without fear
• 16:52 — Making AI use explicit and comfortable
• 19:06 — Practical automation examples at Chrometrics
• 20:35 — Dynamic talent model for operational resilience
• 22:41 — Focusing on customer value through turbulence
• 25:34 — Mentorship and fostering women leaders in growth
• 28:23 — Advice to future leaders: empathy and courage

Memorable Moments

• Gwen’s lighthearted cultural stories about “ahorita” and working in fast-paced environments (04:43).
• The emoji-worthy Skittles campaign origin tied to actual fan creativity (09:00).
• Gwen’s strategy for managing “steel stomach” leadership—looking at what customers do vs. what they say in times of change (22:41).
• An uplifting description of the internal leadership accelerator and the value of seeing younger professionals succeed (27:28).
• Gwen’s standup comedy aspiration—a fun nod to her own ‘always learning’ mindset (27:46).

Tone and Language

The discussion is candid, pragmatic, and frequently infused with warmth and moments of humor. Gwen draws on both data-driven frameworks and personal anecdotes, blending strategic insights with accessible real-world examples.

For Listeners

This episode is packed with actionable perspectives on:

• Breaking down organizational silos in customer experience
• Using behavioral insights to drive creative, measurable results
• The role of leadership empathy and authenticity in change management
• Encouraging experimentation—especially with emerging technologies like AI
• Building sustainable talent models and future-focused leadership

Recommended for: Marketers, product/UX/CX leaders, brand strategists, and anyone interested in the intersection of creativity, behavioral science, and digital transformation.

For more resources or to connect with Gwen Hammes, visit Chrometrics.com or find her on LinkedIn (29:49).