Insights Unlocked: UX for AI – Designing Intelligent Experiences with Greg Nudelman

Episode Release Date: June 9, 2025

In this enlightening episode of Insights Unlocked, hosts Nathan Isaacs and Sean Treizer engage in a deep conversation with Greg Nudelman, a distinguished UX architect at Sumo Logic and author of the recently released book, UX for AI. The discussion navigates the evolving landscape of user experience (UX) in an AI-driven world, uncovering the shifts UX professionals must embrace to design intelligent, customer-centric digital experiences.

1. Greg Nudelman's Journey into UX and AI

Greg begins by sharing his early fascination with science fiction and robotics, which naturally led him to a career at the intersection of UX and artificial intelligence. Reflecting on his two-decade-long experience working on over 35 AI-driven projects, Greg emphasizes the importance of understanding both the potentials and pitfalls of integrating AI into user experiences.

"I spent a lot of time, you know, thinking about science fiction and robots and so forth and really fantasizing how would it be to live with real-life robotic entities. So that's what we have today."
— Greg Nudelman [01:55]

2. The Limitations of Traditional Design Tools

Diving into his article titled "Iceberg UX," Greg critiques the reliance on traditional design tools like Figma in the AI era. He argues that while tools like Figma focus on UI aesthetics, the true value lies in the underlying content and functionality.

"What we really want to know is what does the steak taste like and look like, right? And that is largely beyond what Figma can deliver."
— Greg Nudelman [03:55]

He uses the metaphor of a meal: UI is the plate, and UX is the steak. While the plate's appearance matters, the real satisfaction comes from the quality of the steak. Similarly, in AI-driven products, the content and interaction quality supersede mere visual design.

3. Shifting Focus from UI to Content and Interaction

Greg emphasizes that in AI-driven interfaces, users prioritize the accuracy and relevance of content over visual elements. He illustrates this by stating that users might not care about the style of a chatbot's UI as long as the responses are accurate and helpful.

"Is the output correct? Is the output summarized in the way that fits my workflow? That is what matters, and that is outside of Figma's purview."
— Greg Nudelman [04:45]

4. Integrating AI into the UX Workflow

Moving forward, Greg discusses the integration of AI and data into the UX workflow. He introduces the concept of a "rag-based workflow," where AI models are used collaboratively to refine prototypes based on user feedback.

"The model is there to help you and to serve you and, to become your perfect prototype."
— Greg Nudelman [05:35]

This approach shifts UX teams from static design iterations to dynamic, AI-assisted optimizations that respond in real-time to user interactions and data insights.

5. The Critical Role of Empathy in AI-Driven UX

Despite the technological advancements, Greg underscores the irreplaceable value of human empathy in UX design. He warns against over-reliance on graphical tools and advocates for maintaining a customer-first mindset.

"Our trademark empathy skills that we bring as UXers... that AI just cannot replace."
— Greg Nudelman [09:50]

6. Evaluating AI Models with the Value Matrix

Greg introduces the concept of a "Value Matrix" to assess AI models' effectiveness beyond mere accuracy. This tool helps UX teams weigh the benefits and potential drawbacks of AI predictions, ensuring that models align with user needs and ethical standards.

"If the prediction is wrong, what is the impact of that? That's a very deep, very valuable conversation."
— Greg Nudelman [10:15]

He illustrates this with an example from TSA screening, highlighting how overly accurate models that rarely flag threats can become ineffective by missing critical instances.

7. Common Pitfalls in AI Projects: The 85% Failure Rate

Addressing the high failure rate of AI projects, Greg cites a statistic from Forbes indicating that 85% of such initiatives fail to deliver ROI, often due to flawed use cases rather than technological shortcomings.

"The number one reason things fail is the use case."
— Greg Nudelman [21:59]

He emphasizes the importance of selecting appropriate use cases and thoroughly understanding the problem space before deploying AI solutions.

8. Designing for Agentic AI and Human-Machine Collaboration

Exploring the future of AI in UX, Greg discusses the emergence of agentic AI—AI systems capable of performing complex, multi-step tasks autonomously. He likens these systems to a colony of ants led by a queen, where the AI agents handle tasks and report back, facilitating a collaborative dynamic between humans and machines.

"These things are not that smart and they have trouble being in the world... they're like newborn babies quickly growing into experts."
— Greg Nudelman [26:42]

Greg highlights the need for a mindset shift in UX teams to accommodate and harness the capabilities of agentic AI, ensuring that human empathy and strategic oversight remain at the forefront.

9. Essential Skills and Mindsets for Thriving in the AI Era

Concluding the discussion, Greg shares essential strategies for UX teams to remain relevant and effective amidst rapid AI advancements:

• Continuous Learning and Community Engagement: Participating in bootcamps and community forums to stay updated and collaborate with peers.

• Defining Unique Value Propositions: Understanding and honing individual strengths that AI cannot replicate, such as strategic thinking and empathy.

• Embracing Human-Centric Design: Prioritizing human needs and ethical considerations in every aspect of UX design.

"You need to upskill yourself through your fellow humans and for the use of AI to help thrive in this new normal."
— Greg Nudelman [36:09]

10. Resources and Further Learning

Greg promotes his book, UX for AI, as a comprehensive guide for UX professionals navigating the AI landscape. Additionally, he invites listeners to participate in his upcoming AI Bootcamp, hosted online to accommodate growing interest.

"My book is your blueprint for the next four or five years. It gives you all the tools you need to move forward and practical exercises to actually learn it and master it."
— Greg Nudelman [41:00]

Listeners are encouraged to visit ux4ai.com for more resources, event details, and to connect with Greg on social media.

Conclusion

Greg Nudelman's insights offer a compelling roadmap for UX professionals aiming to excel in an AI-driven world. By shifting focus from superficial UI design to meaningful content and interactions, embracing AI as a collaborative tool, and maintaining a steadfast commitment to empathy and user-centric design, UX teams can create intelligent experiences that not only resonate with users but also drive tangible business results.

For a deeper dive into designing AI-driven user experiences, listeners are encouraged to explore Greg’s book and participate in his educational bootcamps.

For more detailed show notes, curated clips, and supplementary materials, visit usertesting.com/podcast. Subscribe to Insights Unlocked on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, or Google Play to stay updated with the latest episodes.