Podcast Summary: Insights Unlocked

Episode: What most marketers miss about marketing effectiveness with Sorin Patilinet
Date: November 10, 2025
Host: Johan Reed (CMO, UserTesting)
Guest: Sorin Patilinet (Marketing Strategist, PepsiCo; Author)
Producer: Nathan Isaacs

Episode Overview

This engaging episode explores the real drivers of marketing effectiveness through a fresh, systems-oriented lens. Sorin Patilinet, author and PepsiCo marketing leader, joins UserTesting’s CMO Johan Reed to challenge common misconceptions in marketing. The conversation dives into systems thinking, the evolving role of AI, how to define and align on marketing effectiveness internally, and why marketers often miss focusing on what truly creates impact.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Missing Voice" in Marketing Thinking

• Sorin’s Book Motivation: Sorin explains writing his book to amplify the brand/advertiser’s perspective, often missing amid academic and agency voices.
• Quote:

  "I felt that there's a missing voice in all this conversation and that's the voice of the brand, the voice of the advertiser. ...We are here to make our brands grow and our brands ahead of our competitors."
  — Sorin Patilinet [03:32]

2. Systems Thinking and Marketing Effectiveness

• Why Systems Thinking? Sorin advocates for moving beyond narrow marketing KPIs—viewing marketing as an interconnected system involving strategy, product, pricing, distribution, content, and measurement.
• Quote:

  "I'm trying to bust that myth. ...Marketing is how effectively you apply your strategy, how effectively you think about pricing, product distribution, media, content and also measurement."
  — Sorin Patilinet [06:20]

• Barriers to Adopting Systems Approach: Cognitive load and time pressure are major obstacles, but advancing technology will help.
• Quote:

  "System thinking...does require a lot of cognitive effort...sometimes you don't have the time. ...But I think will be solved easily with the advancement of technology."
  — Sorin Patilinet [07:29]

3. Execution vs. Knowledge: The Real Differentiator

• Most Companies Have Enough Knowledge: The challenge isn’t knowing what to do, but executing holistic systems and successfully translating insights into action.
• Quote:

  "What separates great companies...is their ability to implement those insights and to execute that system...in real life. And that's the hard part."
  — Sorin Patilinet [09:22]

4. The Role and Future of AI in Marketing

• AI’s Transformational Potential: AI, especially LLMs, enhances marketing effectiveness by making sense of vast, unstructured consumer data and improving confidence in decisions.
• Duality—Excitement and Anxiety: AI will rapidly change marketing, but human experience and real-life insights will still matter.
• Quote:

  "Everything that a researcher does is to improve the odds of a decision to be successful and AI can only help improve that probability. ...I'm very excited about AI. I'm also scared about AI at the same time."
  — Sorin Patilinet [14:05, 14:50]

5. Redefining "Marketing Effectiveness"

• Complexity Is Increasing: Proliferation of channels and tools means decisions get fragmented; short-term KPIs may miss long-term effectiveness.
• Aligning on Effectiveness: The most critical step is to define and clarify what "effectiveness" actually means for the organization.
• Example from Mars: At Mars, the team aligned around creative effectiveness as a core driver, enabling focus and compounded learning.
• Quote:

  "The number one job to be done is to clarify what is effectiveness for your organization and to align that message with everyone until it's 100% clear..."
  — Sorin Patilinet [23:19]

6. Consistency, Focus, and Internal Communication

• Relentless Repetition: Sorin’s lesson from Mars—stick with a focused measurement and approach it consistently for compounded value.
• Healthy Internal Competition: Turning measurement into a positive competition can drive engagement and progress.
• Quote:

  "Set your definition or align that definition and only use that. Don't be bored by what you do. Don't try to find the next cookie. Do the same thing over and over."
  — Sorin Patilinet [28:38]

7. The Marketer’s Real Job: Knowing the Consumer, Not Chasing Tactics

• Avoid Platform and Format Fixation: Marketers often focus on ad formats because they’re familiar—real impact comes from knowing the consumer and category deeply.
• Quote:

  "We do spend much more time talking about which format of media shall I use...when the real conversation...would be around: Is this the category I'm playing or should the category be bigger? What are the category entry points? How are people actually perceiving that category? ...The difference is marginal [between ad formats]."
  — Sorin Patilinet [32:34]

8. Rethinking Marketing Leadership Titles

• Should CMOs Be CMOs?

  "Maybe all the CMOs should change their title...maybe you're a customer marketing officer, because...you are basically forced to think about the customer."
  — Sorin Patilinet [35:31]

• Holistic Strategy: Effectiveness must integrate across teams and disciplines, not be siloed into only media or channel management.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the difficulty of measuring strategy effectiveness:

  "It is something that we often go very fast through because we want to get to the tactics and the execution...Strategy is saying no to 100 things that you could consider. And we don't like to say no."
  — Sorin Patilinet [36:42]

• On building internal alignment:

  "Get a senior sponsor. ...It's very difficult to do anything if you start from a team of 1. Your CMO, potentially also some other senior leader in the organization should be sold in first..."
  — Sorin Patilinet [30:59]

• Final encouragement to marketers:

  "Start the conversation. I don't think there's anything more important than that."
  — Soren Patilinet [39:57]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:32] – On missing voices in marketing thought-leadership
• [06:20] – Systems thinking in marketing
• [09:22] – Challenge of execution, not knowledge
• [14:05 – 14:50] – AI’s promise and uncertainty in marketing
• [23:19] – Defining and aligning on marketing effectiveness
• [28:38] – Consistency and positive internal competition
• [32:34] – Why consumer understanding trumps format obsession
• [35:31] – Should the CMO become the “Customer Marketing Officer?”
• [36:42] – Elevating marketing strategy above tactics

Key Takeaways

• Marketing is bigger than tactics—it’s a system.
• Defining “effectiveness” is foundational—document it, align on it, and repeat it.
• Embrace technology and AI as tools, but keep strategy and consumer understanding as human-led priorities.
• Focus internal measurement and communication, and stick with it for compounding results.
• Above all, marketers who truly understand their customers—and not just their media mix—will cut through complexity and drive impact.

For continued conversation and resources, listeners are encouraged to visit usertesting.com/podcast or connect with Sorin Patilinet on LinkedIn.