Intelligence Squared

Episode: Anthony Scaramucci on Trump and the Threat to American Democracy (Part One)

Date: October 5, 2025
Host: Emily Maitlis (for Intelligence Squared)
Guest: Anthony Scaramucci

Episode Overview

This episode features a candid and wide-ranging conversation between Anthony Scaramucci—best known for his tumultuous 11-day tenure as Donald Trump's White House Communications Director—and Emily Maitlis. Scaramucci charts his unlikely journey from Wall Street to political fundraiser, his time inside the Trump campaign and administration, and his current perspective as a Trump critic. Key themes include personal anecdotes from the campaign trail, critiques of American political dysfunction, and a deep dive into the threats facing U.S. democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening: Personal Origins and Political Evolution

[03:07 – 14:26]

• Scaramucci’s blue-collar upbringing:

  • Emphasizes working-class family: father was a union crane operator; mother a makeup artist.
  • “I did not grow up poor. I would never want to dishonor my dad’s work ethic by even suggesting I grew up poor.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [07:36])

• Feeling like a ‘fish out of water’:

  • Relates how his lack of elite social skills and connections motivated his political fundraising.
  • Early support for both Republicans and Democrats (Giuliani, Dole, Pataki, Clinton, Obama, Romney, Walker, Bush).

• His initial contact with Trump:

  • Trump's recruitment approach after The Apprentice; “I want you to have breakfast with me.”
  • Scaramucci initially dismisses Trump’s seriousness about running:
    • “You’re just doing that for publicity. You’re not really serious.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [12:41])
  • “If Bush drops out of the race, you’ll come work for me.” A handshake agreement—the “colossal mistake number one.” ([14:46])

2. Inside the Trump Campaign: Seeing the ‘Missed Wedge’

[14:46 – 21:31]

• The impact of Trump’s campaign style:

  • Trump’s instincts: labeling rivals (“Low Energy Jeb”) undermined Bush, and others.
  • On Trump’s campaign genius:
    • “People think he isn’t [a genius], but trust me—you don’t go from being a reality TV star to the American presidency in 18 months… if you don’t have some instincts.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [14:56])

• First Rally in Albuquerque:

  • Contrasts Bush’s empty rooms with Trump’s massive crowds.
  • Interacts with working-class supporters:
    • A factory worker explains lost manufacturing jobs after NAFTA, struggle to replace job with Domino’s & Lowe's.
    • “What we did to the country is we turned working-class people who were once economically aspirational… to economically desperational. Mr. Trump saw that. I did not see that.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [19:22])

• Epiphany on establishment disconnect:

  • “I grew up with the people Mr. Trump was talking to, but I ended up getting the confirmed biases of the people I started hanging out with.” ([19:54])
  • “The establishment Democrats and the establishment Republicans missed this huge wedge in the system that he exploited.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [20:28])

3. Political System Disrepair: America’s Structural Problems

[24:10 – 28:51]

• Scaramucci’s sobering assessment on the state of America:

  • “It’s going terribly, but it’s been great for the podcast business, right? ... Trump is good for one thing. That’s podcasting.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [24:34])
  • “We have a crisis of leadership… and a structural problem going on.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [24:45])

• Three big structural issues:

  1. Third-party suppression:
     • Since Ross Perot scared the “daylights” out of both parties in 1992, duopoly rules ensured no competitive independent candidates across 50 states.
  2. Gerrymandering:
     • “Are we in a real democracy if the politicians are picking the voters? I thought the voters were supposed to pick the politicians.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [27:23])
  3. Citizens United (Money in politics):
     • “The legislative agenda has skewed toward… big pharma, big food, tax cuts for the rich.”
     • Congressional approval is abysmal, yet individual incumbent re-election rates remain at 95%.

4. The Economy: Innovation Amidst Dysfunction

[28:51 – 31:43]

• On economic hope despite political chaos:
  • The resilience and innovation of American industry. Echoes historical trends—apocalyptic predictions are usually wrong because of technological leaps.
  • “Despite everything I just said, the people… in the economy are innovating and… there will be things that happen deus ex machina that we’re not planning for that will right-size the ship.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [29:20])
  • Advises against linear thinking; references Thomas Malthus’ failed predictions, fracking, and energy innovations.

5. Trump’s Economic Policies: Hurting the System

[31:43 – 36:44]

• Rule of law as economic cornerstone:

  • “The number one driver of the economy in a country like ours… is the predictability of the rule of law.” ([31:53])
  • Attacks on the legal system, project “2025,” and targeting adversaries undermines investor confidence.

• Tariffs and economic disruption:

  • Mocks Trump’s chaotic tariff proposals:
    • “If you’re going to come down on the 2nd of April from Mount Evil like orange Moses with the tariff tablet…” ([32:40])
    • “He’s setting a trajectory for a recession in the country. So no, I think his decision-making is very, very flawed on policy.” ([35:11])

• Concedes that Trump is “right about a few things”—

  • Need to address unfair trade, border security, and lost manufacturing—but attacks the administration’s approach as counterproductive, chaotic, and divisive.
  • “There’s no articulate organized opposition. The Republicans are scared out of their minds of him and the Democrats are too busy fighting with each other…” (Anthony Scaramucci, [36:29])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s persona:

  • “If you went into [Trump’s] apartment, it looked like Louis XIV smoked crystal meth and, like, decorated the apartment. You’ve never seen an apartment like this.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [20:44])

• On political evolution:

  • “It’s sort of like a sports team. You can’t go from Man City to Manchester United, right? You can’t do that. So I’ve always been a Republican...” (Anthony Scaramucci, [12:01])
  • “People think he isn’t [a genius], but trust me—you don’t go from being a reality TV star to the American presidency in 18 months… if you don’t have some instincts.” ([14:56])

• On structural flaws:

  • “Are we in a real democracy if the politicians are picking the voters? I thought the voters were supposed to pick the politicians. Right?” (Anthony Scaramucci, [27:23])
  • “Congress has an approval rating of 14%. So Kim Il Jung, the North Korean dictator, is doing almost as well as the Congress, but the individual incumbent has a 95% re-election rate.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [28:13])

• On Trump’s impact:

  • “How’s it going? Great for the podcast business. Shitty for the country.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [28:44])

• On economic threats:

  • “If you’re going to take one person and lift them above the law… that puts pressure in the system and on the margin, that hurts the commercial activity in the country.” (Anthony Scaramucci, [32:02])

Important Timestamps for Segments

• [03:07] – Introduction & Scaramucci’s upbringing
• [06:10] – Political fundraising origins, moving across party lines
• [11:26] – Scaramucci on why he “lost” faith in Democrats
• [14:46] – First-hand stories of working with Trump & campaign dynamics
• [17:39] – Albuquerque rally and the “missed wedge” of working-class discontent
• [24:34] – Scaramucci diagnoses America’s structural political problems
• [28:59] – Economic hope & innovation despite dysfunction
• [31:53] – Analysis of Trump’s economic actions, rule of law, and impact on business climate

Tone & Style

The conversation is fast-moving, personal, at times humorous and biting, with Scaramucci frequently self-deprecating and candid about his regrets, mistakes, and new perspectives. He combines storytelling with explicit critiques of America’s political and economic systems, delivering memorable one-liners and concrete examples.

Conclusion

In this first part of the conversation, Anthony Scaramucci dissects both his own journey through American politics and the ways in which Donald Trump harnessed working-class discontent ignored by traditional elites. Scaramucci’s diagnosis of U.S. political dysfunction is incisive and deeply critical of both parties. He balances blunt warnings about the state of democracy and the economy with optimism in the innovative power of the American people—tempered, however, by his warning that structural flaws and leadership crises still threaten the republic.