Intelligence Squared: Is This the Twilight of American Supremacy?

Guest: Simon Jenkins
Host: Maithili Rao
Date: November 9, 2025

Overview

This episode of Intelligence Squared features historian, journalist, and author Simon Jenkins discussing his new book, "A Short History of America: From Tea Party to Trump." The conversation explores the uniqueness of the American experiment, the perennial tensions between federal and state powers, the nation’s enduring knack for compromise, and whether America’s era of global supremacy is truly ending—or if its example and role remain essential for the world.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Simon Jenkins’ Connection to America

• Background & Motivation
  • Jenkins shares his long, personal relationship with America, from childhood years in Princeton to frequent visits.
  • Quote: "I've always been one of those Britons who always thinks of themselves as sort of half American or at least transatlantic." — Simon Jenkins (04:02)
• His motivation for writing short histories was shaped by his journalist ethos and desire to inform general readers, not academics.

2. Teaching and Understanding American History

• American History in the UK
  • Jenkins criticizes the poor standard of teaching American (and global) history—often filtered through media soundbites.
  • Emphasizes the importance of concise, clear history, aiming to reach students and general readers (05:16–06:59).
  • Quote: "If you rely on the media... you're going to get a very, very biased view of the world." — Simon Jenkins (05:16)
• Audience of His Book
  • Sees his target audience as "ordinary people who are interested in reading something reasonably serious about what the world is like." (06:31)

3. America’s Dual Origins and the Culture of Compromise

• Early American Settlements
  • Details the distinct but foundational differences between Jamestown (gentry, slave-owning, hierarchical) and Massachusetts (self-reliant, industrious, Protestant).
  • These dualities persisted as underpinning tensions in American society and politics.
  • Quote: "There were two Americas... It was these two Americas that made the present America." — Simon Jenkins (07:29)
• Admiration for American Independence
  • Jenkins lauds the path to American independence as a political marvel, characterized by educated leadership and compromise—unlike France's revolutionary chaos.
  • The tension and balance between educated elites and practical compromise are seen as US strengths (09:43).

4. Tocqueville and Political Character

• Tocqueville’s Observation
  • Jenkins references and qualifies de Tocqueville’s quip: "The American is the Englishman left to himself." (11:08)
  • Cites another Tocqueville insight: "American politics defaults to the mob. British politics defaults to the club." (12:09)
  • Suggests it captures the essence: American politics is populist and direct; British politics is clubbish and internally mediated.

5. Federalism and the Nature of American Government

• Tension Between State and Federal Power
  • Jenkins underscores the ongoing balancing act between state and federal authority, central to understanding American government and differentiating US from European models (13:11–14:36).
  • Quote: "To understand America, you have to understand the rights of the state and the freedoms of the state. That's the answer to your question... There are two states in America." — Simon Jenkins (13:44)

6. The Crucial Legacy of Reconstruction

• The Power and Limitations of Compromise
  • Jenkins frames Reconstruction as an era of half-measures—emancipation without full equality—arguing America’s unity survived because of (sometimes costly) compromise.
  • Quote: "They never broke up because they always compromised, they always gave in... It was this determination. They started with 13 colonies and they got up to 50 states." — Simon Jenkins (17:47)
  • He notes the lobbies and vested interests in modern Washington as a continuation of this “never fully resolved” pattern.

7. Presidential Greatness and Uniqueness

• Key Figures
  • Jenkins admires Lincoln as a unifying figure and master of compromise (18:33).
  • Considers presidents like Teddy Roosevelt and Herbert Hoover as larger-than-life characters, emphasizing that America does not always elect "talented" leaders, sometimes to its benefit (18:33–20:10).
  • Quote: "America's gift is for not getting too clever presidents." — Simon Jenkins (20:04)

8. Trump, Populism, and the Modern Era

• Trump’s Place in History
  • Jenkins views Trump as less an ideologue and more as a symptomatic, egotistical populist, likening certain aspects to Teddy Roosevelt and the post-Lincoln era of regression (20:50–24:43).
  • Highlights American constitutional checks and balances; expresses concern they might be faltering under Trump.
  • Reminds listeners that isolationism and a populist corrective are long-running American themes.
  • Quote: "Every now and then, I think you need a Trump to say to people, just remember that the United States of America is not New York and Washington." — Simon Jenkins (23:50)

9. America’s Role in the World and the Path Ahead

• Reckoning and Recalibration
  • Jenkins frames the Trump era as an opportunity for self-questioning:
    • "It can be no bad thing for a nation to be asked to occasionally question its place in the world, to review its strategies." (25:50)
    • Best case: Trump’s disruptive questions (about NATO, defense, etc.) force needed debate, after which the nation recovers its balance (26:31).
  • He sees American innovation—AI, tech, global culture—as the nation's true, enduring strength.
  • Quote: "Every 10 years a new revolution comes along, born in California... I'm much more worried about AI than I am about the Pentagon." — Simon Jenkins (26:46)

10. Lessons for British Democracy

• Populism vs. Club Government
  • Contrasts America's populist, participatory tendencies with Britain's “club” politics, dominated by insiders and disconnected from ordinary voters (29:18).
  • Cites the regional inequalities in the UK and warns that persistent neglect of regions outside London threatens the union.
  • Quote: "America is the country to learn unions about." — Simon Jenkins (31:38)

11. The World Without American Leadership

• America as a Citadel of Freedom
  • Jenkins asserts that the collapse of American leadership would be a major blow to global stability and the example of pluralistic democracy.
  • Quote: "America is an example to the world of how you can get very diverse peoples to live together in a peaceful, relatively peaceful, stable state and prosper... There's no other country and there isn't any other country that comes across in quite that sense." — Simon Jenkins (32:38)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Compromise:
  • "Everything in American politics and history is a compromise. There are two tensions, always operating very fiercely... It's still amazing to me, having read the history of America, that it's still one country." — Simon Jenkins (15:38)
• On Reconstruction:
  • "They allowed the black codes, they allowed discrimination... but they always have turned a blind eye to it. And it continued right through into the 1960s when LBJ finally, I think, did cure it." — Simon Jenkins (17:29)
• On Presidential Greatness:
  • "The union would not have survived if it hadn't been for Lincoln, who himself was a compromiser." — Simon Jenkins (18:38)
• On Trump as a 'Corrective':
  • "If you go too far down the liberal road... you'll get someone like me." — Simon Jenkins, channeling Trump's warning (24:36)
• On American Innovation:
  • "Every 10 years a new revolution comes along, born in California... I'm much more worried about AI than I am about the Pentagon." — Simon Jenkins (26:46)
• On Pluralism and the Union:
  • "America is the country to learn unions about." — Simon Jenkins (31:38)
• On American Leadership:
  • "If today's United States ceased to exist, it would be a global catastrophe. There's no other nation imaginable that could take its place." — Simon Jenkins (32:19)
• On Why America Matters:
  • "For America not to exist... the idea that there's nowhere on earth that's a citadel of freedom in that sense, I think is terrible. And so I want America to work." — Simon Jenkins (33:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:26 — Introduction to episode’s theme and guest
• 04:02 — Jenkins’ personal connection to America
• 05:16 — American history and its teaching in the UK
• 07:29 — Dual foundation of Jamestown and Massachusetts
• 09:43 — The singular achievement of US independence
• 11:08 — Tocqueville’s observation on American/English character
• 13:11 — State vs. federal power; core of American difference
• 15:38 — Reconstruction and the force of compromise
• 18:33 — Reflections on presidential greatness and mediocrity
• 20:50 — Trump, populism, and historical parallels
• 25:50 — The value of national self-questioning
• 26:46 — America's real strengths: innovation and adaptability
• 29:18 — Lessons for UK democracy
• 31:55 — The miracle of compromise and union in America
• 32:38 — Why America’s leadership still matters globally
• 33:52–34:08 — Closing reflections

Conclusion

Simon Jenkins’ wide-ranging conversation with Maithili Rao is a celebration—not of uncritical American exceptionalism, but of the nation’s ongoing project: balancing pluralism and compromise, enduring past failings, and continuously questioning itself. Jenkins argues that the world still needs the United States as a beacon of freedom and stability, especially at moments of doubt and change. Despite repeated moments of crisis, America’s resilience, capacity for reinvention, and pluralistic spirit offer essential lessons to its own citizens and to democracies everywhere.