Podcast Summary: Julian Barnes in Conversation with Ian McEwan (Part One)

Podcast: Intelligence Squared
Host: Intelligence Squared
Guests: Julian Barnes, Ian McEwan
Date: February 2, 2026

Overview

This special live episode marks Julian Barnes’ 80th birthday and the release of his newly published novel, Departures. Barnes joins fellow novelist and long-time friend Ian McEwan at London’s Union Chapel for a candid, layered, and often humorous discussion. They explore themes from Departures—love, memory, mortality, and grief—while reflecting on their shared literary history, the evolution of British literature over five decades, and the intricate pleasures and pitfalls of the writing life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Longstanding Friendship and Literary Camaraderie

Timestamp: 01:51 - 05:32

• McEwan remarks on their half-century friendship, calling it “50 long years” without “a cross word,” noting the significance of finally sharing a stage.
• Both recall their early days in literary London, particularly the mid-70s gatherings at the Pillars of Hercules pub and their mutual circle, including poet Ian Hamilton.
• Anecdotes about nervously reviewing each other’s work and entering the literary scene reflect both camaraderie and competition.

Key Quotes:

“Actually, this is the first time we’ve ever performed on stage together. Yeah, 50 years we’ve known one another, 50 long years.” — Julian Barnes (01:57)
“I was reviewing fiction for the New Statesman... thank God I gave it a good review.” — Julian Barnes (05:13)

2. The Pleasure of Writing and the Writer’s Journey

Timestamp: 03:54 - 09:34

• McEwan probes Barnes about moments of “writing pleasure” and milestones of happiness in his career.
• Barnes confides his own anxieties and slower start, describing himself as a “laggard” who felt overshadowed by contemporaries like McEwan and Martin Amis.
• Discussion of Barnes’ pseudonym “Edward Pygge” offers insight into the freedom and bravado afforded by anonymity in criticism and satire.

Key Quotes:

“There must have been moment when you just knew that this is going to be your entire life and you were going to be very happy.” — Ian McEwan (08:35)
“When you’re writing under a pseudonym, you can be much more self-confident, cocky and down-putting than if you’ve got your own name.” — Julian Barnes (10:10)

3. Memory, Anecdote, and the Nature of Autobiography

Timestamp: 11:20 - 25:06

• Prompted by McEwan, Barnes reads from the opening of Departures, introducing the concept of IAMs—Involuntary Autobiographical Memories—and reflecting on the uncanny reliability (or unreliability) of memory.
• The reading moves from Proustian recollection to the comic grotesque (memory triggered by bodily functions), and ultimately to philosophical musings about self-forgiveness and moral reckoning.
• Their exchanges reveal a shared fascination with how individuals become “shrunk into anecdotes,” and how retelling transforms truth.

Key Quotes:

“You become a set of anecdotes. Yes. And in our case, a lineup of books on a shelf.” — Julian Barnes (13:59)
“What if your brain didn’t just contain a chronological listing of all the pies you had eaten, but also of your moral actions and inactions... Not just the actual failings, but the imagined and desired ones.” — Julian Barnes reading from Departures (23:44)
“But perhaps presidents have a greater insight than the rest of us into the nature and magnanimity of the Godhead.” — Julian Barnes on Jimmy Carter’s confession (24:57)

4. Literary London of the 1970s: Then and Now

Timestamp: 29:05 - 32:19

• The conversation pivots to the literary landscape of their youth, before social media or book influencers—when a review in “the Listener or the Observer” could be make-or-break.
• Barnes challenges the myth of homogeneity in the literary scene, pointing to the genuine diversity of the 1983 “Best of Young British” list.
• They both offer anecdotes about intimidating literary parties, publishing circles, and the tangible sense of legacy (shelves of past titles at publishers’ offices).

Key Quotes:

“It was a smaller critical world.” — Julian Barnes (30:06)
“We were showing the way with diversity. Little did we know. We just thought, these are the good writers.” — Julian Barnes (30:48)

5. Structure and Re-Reading in Departures

Timestamp: 32:12 - 39:47

• McEwan offers a close reading of Departures, admiring its structure and the interplay of memory and metafiction; he describes Barnes stepping “through the mirror” from author to character.
• Both agree that structure in novels often becomes visible only upon re-reading, and the novelist’s architecture isn’t always pre-conceived but discovered in the process.
• The conversation underscores how novelist and narrator blur in the work, and how the writer’s life and fiction interweave.

Key Quotes:

“The point of the first few pages of a novel... is to make your reader confident that you know what you’re up to.” — Julian Barnes (38:21)
“Sometimes in interviews you feel you’re lying about yourself because you’re speaking about this book as if it was always intended.” — Ian McEwan (39:47)
“It might be a bit weedy to say it was just luck. But of course, it wasn’t luck sitting around.” — Julian Barnes (39:57)

Notable & Memorable Moments

• Julian Barnes’ Recitation: His reading from Departures (19:27–25:06) is reflective, funny, and intellectually provocative, seamlessly shifting from literary anecdote to existential pondering.
• War Anecdote: The story of literary editor Terry Kilmartin being shot in the shoulder in WWII and realizing it only when smoke from his cigarette escaped through the wound (18:58) is a showstopper for its bizarre vividness.
• Reminiscence on Late Writers: Barnes and McEwan’s playful yet poignant back-and-forth about the supposed age limit for great writing (15:37) and how views shift as they themselves age.
• Friendship and Ribbing: Their episode is peppered with affectionate teasing, such as McEwan accusing Barnes’ characters of “sicker” early works, or Barnes denying his supposed confidence under his pseudonym.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening and Set-Up: 01:51 – 05:32
• Discussing Literary Beginnings: 05:33 – 09:34
• Surviving and Thriving in Literary London: 09:35 – 15:04
• On Memory, Death, and Anecdotes: 13:16 – 15:37
• Julian Reading from Departures: 19:27 – 25:06
• Then vs. Now: Changing Literary Culture: 29:05 – 32:19
• Deep Dive on Structure and Rereading: 32:12 – 39:47

Conclusion

Tone & Spirit:
The conversation blends wry humor, warmth, intellectual rigor, and the comfort of shared history. Both Barnes and McEwan reflect not only on the work at hand but also on the legacy of writers, and the enduring questions of truth, memory, and artistic pleasure.

For Listeners:
Even without having read Departures, this episode invites you into the inner circle of British literary life, demystifying the often solitary act of writing and celebrating the joys (and foibles) of long creative friendships.

End of Part One.
Stay tuned for further insights and stories in the next part of Julian Barnes and Ian McEwan’s live conversation.