Intelligence Squared: The 12 Books of Christmas | Mishal Husain on Family, Empire and Why Partition Still Matters
Guest: Mishal Husain
Host/Interviewer: Connor Boyle & Razia Iqbal
Release Date: December 23, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode of Intelligence Squared features journalist and broadcaster Mishal Husain, discussing her book Broken Threads: My Family from Empire to Independence. Through a conversation with Razia Iqbal, Husain explores her family’s personal journey through the end of the British Empire in India, the trauma and aftermath of Partition, and the generational stories that illuminate the political and human dimensions of one of history's most significant upheavals. The episode deeply intertwines family memoir with broader questions of identity, loss, memory, and the legacy of Empire and Partition, making history vivid through personal narrative.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Writing Broken Threads: The Family Saga and Personal Impetus

• Origin of the Book
  • Mishal Husain describes the initial impulse to write about her family, focusing on her grandparents’ extraordinary experiences during the years surrounding Indian independence and Partition.

    “I knew that my mother's family in particular had seen some extraordinary times around just before and indeed after 1947... My grandfather Shahid had published a partition diary, so I knew they'd lived through amazing times.” (06:02) Husain

• Expanding the Scope
  • What could have been a smaller project about a single side of the family expanded as Husain realized both sides had powerful stories spanning ethnicities, religions, and geographies.

    “Actually, I've got an Anglo Indian grandmother who was mixed race, and my father's family had a story to tell, too.” (06:46) Husain

• Family as a Microcosm
  • Husain frames her grandparents’ generation as akin to Britain’s ‘wartime generation’ or America’s ‘greatest generation’—the founding generation of South Asian independence, caught unawares by the seismic shifts of the 1940s.

The Symbolism of “Broken Threads” (The Shawl Story)

• The Surviving Sari Border
  • Husain explains the emotional heart of her book’s title, recounting how she inherited a shawl incorporating the border from a sari given to her great-aunt at her grandparents’ wedding—a rare physical thread through tumult and displacement.

    “Someone in the family grabbed this sari… and I thought there are sort of multiple reasons why I'm just amazed that this has survived.” (09:07) Husain

• Fabric as Metaphor
  • The importance of textiles in South Asian heritage and the literal and metaphorical threads connecting generations, set against the backdrop of families uprooted by history.

Family as History: Sources, Voices, and Missing Narratives

• Archival Richness—and Gaps
  • Husain describes having access to diaries and memoirs from her grandfathers but points to the challenge of centering women’s voices, as represented by her grandmothers.

    “And then my other grandfather, Mumtaz, just in his retirement... started [writing], and his... file he left on his computer when he died... just starts with saying essentially, I don't really know why I'm doing this because I don't think anyone in my family is particularly interested in the story of my life.” (13:30) Husain

• The Power of Audio
  • Husain found old audio tapes her grandmother Thyra recorded, capturing memories in her own voice.

    “The tapes were amazing because it's her in her own words, her voice, which I hadn't heard for ages.” (21:27) Husain

  • Notable quote from Thyra:

    “We had learned to live with each other over centuries [as Hindus, Sikhs, and Muslims]... people of my generation were not really complete for a long time because we were used to a pattern of life, friends made and kept, despite prejudices of life like religion or nationality. But these things don't matter. The human values do.” (22:24) Thyra

Navigating Political Upheaval: Personal and Historical

• Firsthand Proximity to Decision-Making
  • Husain’s maternal grandfather, an aide to the British Commander-in-Chief, Claude Auchinleck, witnessed and documented Partition’s high-level decisions.
  • The utter speed at which Empire unraveled and how ordinary people—her family included—were expected to pivot between worlds.
• Changing Identities Post-Partition
  • The complexities of migration, belonging, and official suspicion are illustrated by personal stories:

    “After a while... the narrative started to develop which was about the sons of the soil... These are the true Pakistanis, you know, these are the people of the soil. And that left no place for people whose roots were across the border.” (26:18) Husain

The Forgotten Figure: Field Marshal “Orc” (Auchinleck)

• Auchinleck’s Role and Legacy
  • Husain highlights Auchinleck’s overlooked but pivotal role in both war and Partition. Her grandfather’s deep admiration prompts her exploration of his sensitive handling of INA POWs, against discriminatory pressure.

    “[Auchinleck] says, most interestingly... I want you to search your hearts about their experiences in the Indian army, the times when they were racially discriminated, the times when people, even officers’ wives, were discourteous to their wives. And he's essentially saying, I want you to think about their experience of racism.” (36:14) Husain

Partition’s Trauma and Individual Journeys

• Husain and Iqbal recount the precarious routes her grandparents took to Pakistan, packing up lives in Delhi, narrow escapes from violence, and the integrity of people of all communities who protected each other—emphasizing Partition’s messy, shared humanity.

  “So these trains are really dangerous. But Delhi station master says to them, actually things are much better. Yes, it's fine. And they get booked on the 16th of August on a train. And in the end it's a British officer who... says, you know what? The train, I really don't think you should take the four children and your wife on one of these trains. My plane will be going back empty...” (49:08) Husain

  • Husain describes how violence and insecurities were universal, regardless of faith.

Reconstructing Memory: The Fragmented Present

• Why Partition Still Matters Today
  • The ongoing ramifications of Partition on Indo-Pak relations, identity, and intergenerational memory.
• A Message for the Next Generation
  • Mishal Husain hopes her work will serve as “a record of the fact that there is so little contact today between India and Pakistan”—and a reminder to future generations of shared histories and the possibility of reconciliation.

    “I want them to know that their roots are right across South Asia and that there's a... story there that is the tapestry not only of South Asia's communities, but also of Britain's presence in the world.” (54:55) Husain

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On institutional forgetfulness and personal guilt:

  “None of us were interested at that time. And so I really am ashamed... I mean, especially as a journalist, I should have taken an interest much earlier.” (58:35) Husain

• On the drive for social mobility within empire:

  “This book is actually also a story of social mobility... people whose within two or three generations, whose circumstances improve considerably because of education and hard work.” (58:54) Husain

• On the continuity and value of ordinary lives:

  “No one is ordinary and everyone's lives are interesting. I really believe that, like, and it just depends what questions you ask and how interested you are and how much work you're prepared to do.” (59:13) Husain

• On the loss and alienation of Partition:

  “When he left India for Pakistan in 1947, no way would he ever have thought, I will only return here once in my life. I think that they had no sense that... it was going to be as definitive as it proved to be.” (31:34) Husain

• On the challenges of preserving memory:

  “I think the real problem with the memory of these times is it is just slipping away. That's kind of really why I wanted to write this now is because this is still just about within living memory and that's such a precious resource to document while we still can.” (61:30) Husain

Selected Timestamps for Key Segments

• 06:02 — Mishal Husain describes her family’s story and the book’s origins
• 09:07 — The story of the shawl and the "broken threads" metaphor
• 13:30 — Mining the family's archives and the struggle to center women's stories
• 21:27 — Discovery of grandmother’s audio tapes; interreligious harmony before Partition
• 26:18 — How post-Partition narratives marginalized “migrants” in Pakistan
• 36:14 — Field Marshal Auchinleck’s progressive stand on INA POWs and anti-discrimination
• 49:08 — The harrowing logistics and dangers of leaving India for Pakistan in 1947
• 54:55 — What Husain hopes her sons and the next generation will glean from the book
• 58:35-59:13 — Reflections on confronting family archives, shame, and the value of every life
• 61:30 — The urgency of documenting Partition while it remains in living memory

Final Reflection

Broken Threads is not only an account of one family’s journey, but a meditation on the fragile fabric of memory, identity, and the meaning of home in a post-imperial world. By layering the voices of ancestors, the overlooked and the powerful, the episode—like Husain’s book—proves that at the intersection of global politics and personal memoir lies the possibility for empathy and understanding across divides.

For further details, listeners are encouraged to explore Mishal Husain’s Broken Threads and to engage with the wider discussions on the legacies of Partition and Empire.